Related
I've got thick skin so feel free to throw things.
Watching the forum over the last month I've seen a proliferation of ROMs to the point that I've stopped updating - also partly because my favorite and second favorite teams have stopped putting out new versions. I finally succumbed to the burning urge to try another ROM last night but ended up with buyers "meh."
The ROM environment has become so fragmented that it's hard to know what the advantage of ROM a is over ROM b other than appearance.
A comment from one of the ROM makers brought the problem into sharp focus. "I've renamed my ROM because I didn't know one of my team members already had a ROM named X."
How can you be part of a "team" and not know what's being produced by that team?
It seems like we've got more themers producing work in the form of full ROMs rather than themes. I've got nothing against themers, I love packages that can completely change the look of my device and I'm always on the lookout for cool new themes.
I'd rather see ROM maintainers and themers working together where the former group produces faster and more reliable ROMs while the latter group produces mods for those ROMs.
Do the two groups just not want to work closely together or are there predominantly just mostly lone wolves working at the ROM/theme level in Android?
Wrong section. Suppose to go in q&a (QUESTIONS and answers)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
I disagree because it's directly applicable to development and is aimed at the developers. It's not a general q/a question
I agree with this. There's no need to make a "rom" if you just change the theme. Just make a theme and zip it up then post it in the themes section. And oh yea I believe people refer to these people as "winzippers".
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
OP has a great point about our forum here. Ive really stopped doing anything but for my own use, and with the exception of a few real roms put here, I've watched our Vibrant area here turn into a rom porting paradise, without a lot of original work done by people calling themselves devs. Several of these self proclaimed devs have asked me for help with recent projects, and have then been unable to provide even a simple logcat for diagnosis. If someone cant pull a logcat or understand how to do other basics, you really need to take your time and learn.
It is okay to theme and do little things while you learn, and take the time to put out a quality product, instead of a hurried build thats half broken. We have a slight handful of true devs out here, and a whole bunch of people who want to learn, but seem to be in too much of a hurry to kang others work and not really learn how to build a rom from the ground up. Its a damn shame.
Ginger Clones of the World Unite!!! via the XDA App
I agree with Br1cK'd. There are a lot of "devs" lately that seem to be kanging together half broken ROM's. I can't tell you how often lately I've flashed something only to find major bugs, when the OP claims that the ROM is 100 percent working and bug free. It seems that most of the more skilled developers have moved on to newer devices. I'm all for people learning but they need to do a lot of quality control before they post their work on XDA.
are you tryna say my team member ferhanmm that did an error ? whats up with you son?>
But then... what actually constitutes a "Rom".
For as far as I know, according to CM6/7/Miui people, only theirs are truly "Roms", as they are built from ground up.
Everything else is just a themed stock Rom, or improvements to existing Sammy framework. (Which I still love btw)
If there were malicious Roms that are purposely bricking systems, then I would argue for stricter requirements for releases. But as it stands, I think the openness of this forum allows users and developers alike to find what makes them happy.
I just think in general, Rom devs/maintainers get more credit (Thanks button hits?) than purely themers. As there is a feeling that themers kind of "work for" Rom Devs... Which is why people tend to package their work as Roms instead of themes (So their work seems less derivative or what not)
Wrong section, but I agree.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Br1cK'd said:
OP has a great point about our forum here. Ive really stopped doing anything but for my own use, and with the exception of a few real roms put here, I've watched our Vibrant area here turn into a rom porting paradise, without a lot of original work done by people calling themselves devs. Several of these self proclaimed devs have asked me for help with recent projects, and have then been unable to provide even a simple logcat for diagnosis. If someone cant pull a logcat or understand how to do other basics, you really need to take your time and learn.
It is okay to theme and do little things while you learn, and take the time to put out a quality product, instead of a hurried build thats half broken. We have a slight handful of true devs out here, and a whole bunch of people who want to learn, but seem to be in too much of a hurry to kang others work and not really learn how to build a rom from the ground up. Its a damn shame.
Ginger Clones of the World Unite!!! via the XDA App
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Click to collapse
first of all about the logcat ? did you learn alone ? i guess that if someone ask you, its nno bad to help is it ? because i bet some one showed you...now about the kang, so almost every rom here is a kang right ? almost all roms based on stocks from i9000s and stocks kb1`s isnt it ?... i guess this people have the right to learn, but seems you guys that already know a little dont like to help huh?
I have more than enough mods on my rom to constitute it not being a theme, and I don't know about you but I don't memorize every rom name out there. It sounded similar so I changed it, what's wrong with that? Since 2.2 has already been tweaked to the max I was able to put out a pretty stable version in the first post. Only things I can really do from here are make it more efficient and finish the theme which I plan to do but I just posted it. And it's my first rom so thanks for the encouragement.
I agree, the forum is filling up with "roms" that are just the same rom rethemed over and over and over again. What annoys me most are these self-proclaimed "devs" who take bits and pieces of other people's work and put them together for their own "rom" when they didn't really write any of it. Just take a look at their credits lol... It's a crazy long list.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple ROMs. After all, everyone will like something different.
I think what the OP is saying though is that there are ROMs out there are essentially the same pieces with different theme, or maybe a new lock screen, and whatnot. I think the OP means little additions like that can be part of a theme or the theme & apps forum and could be added to any ROM and doesn't warrant releasing a new ROM under a new name and new dev.
jimmynguyen91 said:
I agree, the forum is filling up with "roms" that are just the same rom rethemed over and over and over again. What annoys me most are these self-proclaimed "devs" who take bits and pieces of other people's work and put them together for their own "rom" when they didn't really write any of it. Just take a look at their credits lol... It's a crazy long list.
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as my partner said above, hell son you dont undestand, everybody uses tweaks that are made because there is no need to redo it...name me any rom you have created ? do you know about roms? dont be stupid
ColorNapkin said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple ROMs. After all, everyone will like something different.
I think what the OP is saying though is that there are ROMs out there are essentially the same pieces with different theme, or maybe a new lock screen, and whatnot. I think the OP means little additions like that can be part of a theme or the theme & apps forum and could be added to any ROM and doesn't warrant releasing a new ROM under a new name and new dev.
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Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
I did my first root about two month ago. Since then I have tried about 20 various roms or updates to them. I tried one last week that seemed to be a copy from an established developer. The other team got really pissy and used alot of immature slang when confronted. I will no longer use any roms from them. I agree that people should learn from the ground up before posting roms and stop the plagiarism.
I appreciate the hard work of the legitimate developers on this site.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
ferhanmm said:
I have more than enough mods on my rom to constitute it not being a theme, and I don't know about you but I don't memorize every rom name out there. It sounded similar so I changed it, what's wrong with that? Since 2.2 has already been tweaked to the max I was able to put out a pretty stable version in the first post. Only things I can really do from here are make it more efficient and finish the theme which I plan to do but I just posted it. And it's my first rom so thanks for the encouragement.
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dont pay attentionn to this ppl fer.. day just stupids ... look at thhe quote i made above.. its just stupid, they want us to redo the same **** that is already made... for example.. whats the need to do a gps fix when jellette made one already ? its just stupid
them may be half a$$ed devs but them gotta have donate button
Bosina & Br1cK'd, first, thanks for your input and participation but this thread isn't about helping or not. It's about packing up thematic changes and publishing them as a ROM rather than a theme bundle.
If a group of members wants to debate about newbies not giving as much as they get, please start a new thread.
bosina said:
as my partner said above, hell son you dont undestand, everybody uses tweaks that are made because there is no need to redo it...name me any rom you have created ? do you know about roms? dont be stupid
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Click to collapse
this dude ha ha shut up im trying to read and your comments are unnecessary and full of hate and You act like You are a Big Time developer who dont take s**t from anyone , go smoke something and relax , i dont see Team Whisky complain or Eugene, just You big time savior .
But if the teams join there will be more people to split the donation money between so maybe thats why people stay separate ?
Hey everyone,
We've made a small change to this forum by giving it a different name. This is now the *default* Android development forum for Galaxy S II. Any works that are completely original will be filed in the Original Android Development forum. Everything else will go here.
We have a more long-term solution to the ROM situation in the works. It'll be a database-driven ROM upload tool that will make it super easy for users to find and rate the ROMs that you upload. You'll be hearing more about this in the coming months.
For now, please continue to provide feedback. Thank you for your help in making XDA a more organized place.
Thanks!
P.S. If you think your ROM should be placed in the Original Android Development forum, send me a PM.
Edit from noppy22: this thread is no longer relevant so I unstuck it...
Sveitus,
I am dissapointed that the original explainatory thread was closed without reason after it was collecting opposing comments. Not cool.
I believe what you've posted (not done, I am confident that this was done with some consultation, somewhere) should be discussed in a wider context.
To that end, I've opened a thread in the XDA general forum with an admittedly emotive title "First and Second Class ROMS, 1st, 2nd class users". Please track this thread, assuming it's not lost amidst the noise.
I would have posted my concerns in the original notification thread except...
What gives?
Just imagine someone from sensation comes here and sees two development threads...
Sensation owners must be jealous by now..
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react.
Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
The current situation is not something new to all of us.
There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.
xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.
I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...
You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...
This is not right for the community.
I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
giokou said:
The current situation is not something new to all of us.
There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.
xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.
I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...
You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...
This is not right for the community.
I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
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Click to collapse
I 100% support this view...
If this is the case, then no custom roms should be in "original" section, as they are all derived from the stock manufacturer's roms.
khein said:
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react.
Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.
And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.
You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.
It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?
And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?
We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
jlevy73 said:
All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.
And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
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Click to collapse
The other thread was closed because it was a discussion on the Derived ROMs Forum format, which as you state wasn't what we hoped it would be. So, changed the forum format. The old discussion was closed and a new one started to discuss this iteration. The thread was also started and stuck by svetius.
zikarus said:
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.
You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.
It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?
And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?
We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
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Click to collapse
The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
Clearer..
<sarcasm>
This titling does make it clearer..
Example:
Original Development: CM7
It's built from the ground up with a myriad of coded additions to be a truly 'Original' product.
Development: Everything else
All other ROMS are stock deodexed upgrades.
</sarcasm>
Don't like this idea...
DaveShaw said:
The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
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Click to collapse
Closed or deleted - did not see it but no big difference anyway.
And there is nothing obvious neither about the closing nor the separation.
If you like to install a new tool do so. Build it, introduce it. Till then leave things as they were, stop separation and maybe excuse for the mess you produced by an unbiased decision... My 5 ct
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I really don't understand what an "original ROM" is. Google wrote the only original Android ROM imho.
here's a thought.
Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.
There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.
It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
Simple Result:
As far as I see; Some devs are out of business and as far as I feel, more to be...
mynameisjon said:
here's a thought.
Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.
There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.
It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
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Click to collapse
Uhm actually the fact that thread was buried a few pages until yesterday meant svetius may have missed it. Moved it across.
That's grand, we don't have derivated roms anymore, we have originals and others (stolen, fakes, not so cool). I like the way mods are listening...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I must admit, the way the mods have chosen to separate the two development sections doesn't sit well with me at all. The criteria for which section a ROM goes in to is very subjective and open to various interpretations, all of which are prone to the moderator's possible bias.
Strictly speaking, only one or two ROMs are 'original development' and belong in that section. All the others are derivatives in some way or another.
A better way to clean up the dev forum would be to have a couple of sub-sections; perhaps one for all ROMs (regardless of source), one for kernels and related modifications and another for android-specific modifications. Then, be strict about enforcing the sub-section criteria. Also, ask ROM chefs to state in their OP whether the ROM is based on another ROM and to credit the original developer/chef.
Everything else goes in Themes & Apps.
Also, having a mandatory format for thread titles (a la the HD2 forum) is an excellent way to keep things tidy and ensure that people know when a new release has been posted and what the releases are based upon. It worked over in HD2 rather well I thought. After coming from an HD2 to the S2, I thought that the S2 forums were a little untidy to say the least.
Ok, serious mode off, back to my usual sarcastic self.
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
TheBishopOfSoho said:
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
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Click to collapse
No harm in disagreeing! If enough people disagree, the mods may relent on this decision.
thanks to htc not releasing kernel source, our dev is at a stand still....Nothing against joel, chad, you guys are great, but damb this 3d technology is just too secretive and they arent giving nothing out... so peace, back t owork
Haven't seen the Mean and Clean rom threads, I take it
Very useful post, thank you so much. We all appreciate your incredible insight onto the subject.
Disregard this post.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
SoraX64 said:
Kernels typically mean almost NOTHING. With them you can over clock your phone but that's mostly it. Some make things smoother. We only have a couple of kernel devs and they aren't in high demand anymore. Wanna know why? They aren't as useful as people think they are.
Without kernal source we can't OC the newest OTA. That's it.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Please tell me your kidding...
Lol kernel source means alot more than OC on current builds
SoraX64 said:
Kernels typically mean almost NOTHING. With them you can over clock your phone but that's mostly it. Some make things smoother. We only have a couple of kernel devs and they aren't in high demand anymore. Wanna know why? They aren't as useful as people think they are.
Without kernal source we can't OC the newest OTA. That's it.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
I don't have time to sit and type out everything the kernel does, and how it can improve performance drastically ,( without OC) but I do have time to say that your info is wrong and I'd recommend researching quite a bit more.
Luthien1 said:
thanks to htc not releasing kernel source, our dev is at a stand still....Nothing against joel, chad, you guys are great, but damb this 3d technology is just too secretive and they arent giving nothing out... so peace, back t owork
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, yes we know this. Complain to HTC not us please. Thanks. Not trying to troll but this was pointless
SoraX64 said:
Kernels typically mean almost NOTHING. With them you can over clock your phone but that's mostly it. Some make things smoother. We only have a couple of kernel devs and they aren't in high demand anymore. Wanna know why? They aren't as useful as people think they are.
Without kernal source we can't OC the newest OTA. That's it.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to be joking??!!!!
sgt. slaughter said:
You have to be joking??!!!!
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Lol I think he is confusing modems with kernels hahahahaha
SoraX64 said:
Kernels typically mean almost NOTHING. With them you can over clock your phone but that's mostly it. Some make things smoother. We only have a couple of kernel devs and they aren't in high demand anymore. Wanna know why? They aren't as useful as people think they are.
Without kernal source we can't OC the newest OTA. That's it.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with most kernels...yes, all you get is OC
there are some, including myself and leedroid for example who actually enhance the phone experience
my kernels for example: i dont really OC either - i run everything at mfg spec
--> some features may need additional support from the rom
1) better battery life
2) way better audio quality (in both aosp and sense, with or without beats) . (suck it apple)
3) 48khz/24bit 2 channel audio over bluetooth
4) gpu enahncements
5) ntfs support (see #7 below)
6) vpn and wifi dialing support
7) usb host mode support - support for external usb keyboards, and storage devices, upto 4TB in size)
8) sql enahncements
9) 100% beats sound drivers over AUX, BT, and internal speaker
10) +mA over MHL/HDMI (only on some devices - due to differences in hardware)
11) extended wifi range, with faster xfer rates
12) faster charge rates, even when using pc usb port
13) CIFS access to windows server file shares
and last, but not least - but most important
14) my kernel was the 1st (and still the only as of the time of this post, per XDA member feedback) shooter kernel to make 4.0.3 fast enough to even be usable and provide 100% 2d and 3d gpu hardware acceleration
14a) i had the 1st ICS kernel on the shooter to have working: hw accel, bluetooth, usb disk drive mode support, multitouch, and wifi. --- yes THE FIRST KERNEL for 4.0.1 to offer that
as far as htc releasing source - all i need is their updated GPU code
i got camera 100% stable on 2.17 roms without ANY SOURCE to work from - all the remaining issues are gpu related
..these are just the major changes - good luck getting any ONE of these on a stock kernel
chad.goodman said:
with most kernels...yes, all you get is OC
there are some, including myself and leedroid for example who actually enhance the phone experience
my kernels for example: i dont really OC either - i run everything at mfg spec
--> some features may need additional support from the rom
1) better battery life
2) way better audio quality (in both aosp and sense, with or without beats) . (suck it apple)
3) 48khz/24bit 2 channel audio over bluetooth
4) gpu enahncements
5) ntfs support (see #7 below)
6) vpn and wifi dialing support
7) usb host mode support - support for external usb keyboards, and storage devices, upto 4TB in size)
8) sql enahncements
9) 100% beats sound drivers over AUX, BT, and internal speaker
10) +mA over MHL/HDMI (only on some devices - due to differences in hardware)
11) extended wifi range, with faster xfer rates
12) faster charge rates, even when using pc usb port
13) CIFS access to windows server file shares
and last, but not least - but most important
14) my kernel was the 1st (and still the only as of the time of this post, per XDA member feedback) shooter kernel to make 4.0.3 fast enough to even be usable and provide 100% 2d and 3d gpu hardware acceleration
14a) i had the 1st ICS kernel on the shooter to have working: hw accel, bluetooth, usb disk drive mode support, multitouch, and wifi. --- yes THE FIRST KERNEL for 4.0.1 to offer that
as far as htc releasing source - all i need is their updated GPU code
i got camera 100% stable on 2.17 roms without ANY SOURCE to work from - all the remaining issues are gpu related
..these are just the major changes - good luck getting any ONE of these on a stock kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm new to the 3D forums but this is the best post I've seen here yet. Thank you
Luthien1 said:
thanks to htc not releasing kernel source, our dev is at a stand still....Nothing against joel, chad, you guys are great, but damb this 3d technology is just too secretive and they arent giving nothing out... so peace, back t owork
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your disrespect. It's noted.
SoraX64 said:
Kernels typically mean almost NOTHING. With them you can over clock your phone but that's mostly it. Some make things smoother. We only have a couple of kernel devs and they aren't in high demand anymore. Wanna know why? They aren't as useful as people think they are.
Without kernal source we can't OC the newest OTA. That's it.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the most ignorant posts i have ever read, and I deal with ignorant posts on a daily basis. You know why there aren't as many kernel devs as "rom" devs? Because you actually have to write code to make a kernel. There are thousands of rom chefs because someone did the hard work for them and made a kitchen. You plug in the rom, do a couple things and you have a rom. Kernel devs spend hours upon hours sometimes just trying to get a phone to boot. For a lot of times the least amount of respect, because you can't visibly see their work a lot of the time. Do some freaking research before you make ignorant claims about things you don't know.
I'm sorry for the rant, but this post just made me angry.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
So much anger from one little post.. Ha.
If you read my post, you will see that I said "Typically, kernels mean NOTHING". Chad basically confirms this in his post right at the beginning: "with most kernels...yes, all you get is OC". He then went on to give examples of how GOOD kernel devs add things to their kernels to make them better. Chad is an example of a good dev. He will work hard to put all of those things in that help people.
But I hate to have to say this: you can only change so much about something without making it mostly your own. Chad is an example of someone who puts tons of work into his kernels, which makes the kernel a special one.
Note that I did not say "All kernels are useless, you shouldn't bother with custom kernels." Why didn't I say that? Because I don't believe it. There are special kernels out there.
But take a look at this. It isn't completely applicable to the argument at hand, but it is a cohesive study put on by an XDA member using various Nexus S kernels. As you will see, there are not tons of differences in performance scores, besides a few exceptions.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AntDDKv-lS6IdFZ6VDRQV0cxRXFVT2dKYm94bWJyQ0E#gid=0
Please, do not jump on me because you mistook what I said as a personal attack against developers like Chad that make quality kernels. OP was blaming a lack of kernel source as a cause of "sucky" development. Development isn't at a standstill at all. That was what my post was responding to. If you actually put the time in to understand the words there instead of getting angry because it looked like an attack, you'll see what I meant. The list of improvements that kernel source that Chad posted is fine and dandy and all, but those are things that are added to the development process that most users don't realize are present, nor do they clamor for such features to be added to kernels. The good developers know what those different things do, and since they want to release a quality kernel, they add those things to their work.
Not having those things isn't hindering development. I don't like to say this, but to the typical end user those additions don't mean anything if their phone doesn't run faster. Those features can be added in and people will just say "awesome kernel, so smooth and my battery can last longer now!" without ever really knowing what it is that's causing that (it also doesn't help that a lot of developers don't have detailed changelogs, and instead say things like "Optimized some stuff so that battery is better").
In summation, I'm not attacking kernel devs or saying that their work is useless. I'm saying that the brunt of the work put into kernels that are released doesn't exactly advance development a terrible amount. They offer extra features on top of already developed ones, like better performance, battery life, sound, and etc., as Chad said. But to say that development sucks because the newest base doesn't have kernel source available for it, when a very small amount of people are interested in Sense 3.0 on top of GB anymore, is just folly and I felt the need to say something about it. I'm sorry for the people that I rubbed the wrong way, and I didn't mean anything bad towards any developers.
And also, on a second look to my first post, I should have added that kernels typically don't mean much to the overall DEVELOPMENT process. Except in cases where a kernel is necessary to fix things, a lot of the development in porting and such doesn't rely heavily on a feature filled kernel.
SoraX64 said:
So much anger from one little post.. Ha.
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I apologize for the rant and the anger was more directed at the op than at you. However even after walking away and coming back the tone of your post to me was still slightly disrespectful. Not as much as when I first read it, but I don't believe I am the only one who took it that way. I'm not going to argue about it, I've said my peace, and am moving on, if you didn't mean for it sound like it was taken then the interpretation was lost.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
just wanted to add (a small venting session) - i spend hours - just on camera for 2.17 alone, over 200 - and i read msgs like post 3 ???
camera on 2.17 based roms - any kernel but htc stock (prior to my newer ones) - app FCed - wouldnt take pics at all
my newer kenrels - with no source to work from - take pics, and damn good ones
cost: about 200 hours of work, headaches, and family issues - but it got done
why are my kernels private? and not released to the public...under GPL i do not need to release source to the public if i dont release a kernel to the public - and last time i did something like this, i got kanged, and others took credit, or gave credit to another developer who in fact released weeks after me - AND STILL REPORTED ME FOR GPL VIOLATIONS when i was in fact 100% compliant
just because you all cant find my GIT repos dont mean they dont exist - every one of my kernels, even the private ones are either on github, or code.google.com - and they ALL have TIMESTAMPS of my commits and people still wanted to say i kanged others (who dont have 1/2 the features as me - and who commited WEEKS (not days or hours, but full weeks) after me.. this is why as of right now - i have no kernel thread in the 3d section of xda - but i do have threads in other sections of xda, where people are more grateful for what is GIVEN TO THEM FOR FREE - and yes, there is a GIT repo for the other kernel just as there was for the kernels i had in this forum - that was available to all users (just with beats and intellianthrax removed)
now people are on ME (not htc - but me) for source... my newer kernels are not public
so if EVERYONE who has went after me or made threats to go after me for GPL actually went after htc - they would be posting updates sooner
and adding
1st kernel to NOT have BSOD on incomming calls for shooter
i did a lot of things FIRST and i got the GIT COMMIT timestamps to prove it
one last vent
$3000 for 1st court case re: nda violation and to fight C&D - i won - but i still had to pay $3000 for a legal retainer
*drama on XDA caused owners of the NDA to reconsider their agreement and revoke it.
to date: $300 for threats someone on XDA made against me re: GPL when in fact the kernels they reported (or made threats to report) had a public git repo - and the person(s) reporting was given a link in public forum to the repo, as well as screen shots of said git repo... he/she/they/robert wilson (hotaru) still reported me (or made public threats to report me)
in order to protect myself, i did consult with a attorney - and if the asswipe did actually report me to gpl-violations - i know i will win the case, but thats another $3000 in fees im stuck with
so
$3300 to date in legal fees paid
200 hours just for 2.17 camera to work
wow.... how ungrateful some people could be
pstevep said:
I apologize for the rant and the anger was more directed at the op than at you. However even after walking away and coming back the tone of your post to me was still slightly disrespectful. Not as much as when I first read it, but I don't believe I am the only one who took it that way. I'm not going to argue about it, I've said my peace, and am moving on, if you didn't mean for it sound like it was taken then the interpretation was lost.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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I'm sorry for the disrespectful tone in my post. I guess personal stress is starting to show up in my posting. I was trying to be more aggressive towards the OP because he was whining like many people have been lately about stuff like this and ICS updates. But like I said, stress probably made the post more antagonistic than it should have been. I had a big fight with my girlfriend today and I'm stressed about school and paying for college. I guess I just snapped a bit.
@Chad: Please read my previous post if you're feeling ill-will towards me. I tried to clear up the misunderstanding. I respect your work greatly, having been very interested in the development scene since I first got my OG Evo. I hate seeing all of the crap that you're put through because of your work, and I'm sorry you have to deal with all of that just because you're better than the rest.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
SoraX64 said:
I'm sorry for the disrespectful tone in my post. I guess personal stress is starting to show up in my posting. I was trying to be more aggressive towards the OP because he was whining like many people have been lately about stuff like this and ICS updates. But like I said, stress probably made the post more antagonistic than it should have been. I had a big fight with my girlfriend today and I'm stressed about school and paying for college. I guess I just snapped a bit.
@Chad: Please read my previous post if you're feeling ill-will towards me. I tried to clear up the misunderstanding. I respect your work greatly, having been very interested in the development scene since I first got my OG Evo. I hate seeing all of the crap that you're put through because of your work, and I'm sorry you have to deal with all of that just because you're better than the rest.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
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i posted b4 i saw ur post - BUT im still in general fed up with the shooter users on xda in general - other forums in xda have been drama free - and forums on sites outside of xda have been drama free
i put hours upon hours into this - then cause of peoples actions on XDA - i end up putting money into it as well - then to read posts like this is very upsetting
fact is - people are given something they can choose to use (or not use) - they see you can do things no one else has ever done on xda at all for any device PERIOD (and XDA is a huge community with 1000s of developers) - they wanna kang you, when they cant - they cause u legal issues
to be clear - never did i say i was the best - and i know im not
...when it comes to understanding kernels for these phones (or any phone), Ziggy prolly knows WAY MORE than me
--my skill set is around C in general, I coded in C, C++, COBOL, and RPG-IV for over 5 years for the government (and code i had access to)
now when it comes to closed source IBM mainframe (s/390-zSeries) and midrange (as/400-iSeries) kernels -- its on
just look at the features, (and stability) i got working and compare it to ANY kernel on XDA for ANY device - and take into account user's feedback - most (not some - but most) users on my kernels get ZERO random reboots, lock ups, freezes, etc - this includes RDs who pushed my kernel to their phones limit with the intent to cause a reboot
SoraX64 said:
I'm sorry for the disrespectful tone in my post. I guess personal stress is starting to show up in my posting. I was trying to be more aggressive towards the OP because he was whining like many people have been lately about stuff like this and ICS updates. But like I said, stress probably made the post more antagonistic than it should have been. I had a big fight with my girlfriend today and I'm stressed about school and paying for college. I guess I just snapped a bit.
@Chad: Please read my previous post if you're feeling ill-will towards me. I tried to clear up the misunderstanding. I respect your work greatly, having been very interested in the development scene since I first got my OG Evo. I hate seeing all of the crap that you're put through because of your work, and I'm sorry you have to deal with all of that just because you're better than the rest.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
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No worries. My 3 year old was losing his mind while I was responding the first time. Which is why I was more aggressive, well that and I'm just sick of some of the crap here. Some of the stuff we as users put devs through is ludicrous. And it's time for it to change.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
chad.goodman said:
i posted b4 i saw ur post - BUT im still in general fed up with the shooter users on xda in general - other forums in xda have been drama free - and forums on sites outside of xda have been drama free
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Hopefully, here soon, the shooter trolls will start to disperse.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
chad.goodman said:
i posted b4 i saw ur post - BUT im still in general fed up with the shooter users on xda in general - other forums in xda have been drama free - and forums on sites outside of xda have been drama free
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XDA is (as far as I know) the biggest Android development site around. Anyone who asks about development is sent to here. That attracts a lot of assholes (like myself. ) and the like. Seems this phone got unlucky and we've got a bunch of drama queens here.
Such a shame, because of the potential this phone has. I hate seeing morons chasing away devs and then complaining of a lack of development. It makes me wish we could take all of the good users and migrate to Rootzwiki. Much better site overall, because it is less popular. But the idiots would follow there as well.
With the way the community treats devs and generally acts stupidly, I worry that we will soon see days where everything is released over IRC instead of forums. Which might actually work, if you think about it.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using XDA Premium App
people, including my family, ask me WHY i do this, why i spend hours making kernels
i make them for my personal phone - i want the best on my phone - the best sound, the best performance, the best battery life (yes battery life AND performance)
why do i share? knowing it has already cost me over $3000
well - a great man once told me
-turn rage into hope
-turn hate into hope
but come $6000 in legal fees - you all wont see me again on XDA as a developer - ever
all i EXPECT is people to be thankful, respectful, and civil - nothing more, nothing less
and i know im not the only developer that left the shooter forums due to drama here at xda - a lot of great developers left
(ziggy, the rcmix kernel dude for example)
Question Above
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
blttalas said:
Question Above
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
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In some time wil be
Enviado desde mi MB860 usando Tapatalk 2
Depends of the guys, i really appreciate the work of developers, but in 1 month, i see like 4 or 5 updates, with annoying updates like, NEW KEYBOARD, CHANGED BUILD.PROP and others, but nothing with NEW KERNEL, if possible get 3 or 4 developers to do 1 thing!! Or Stable kernel only in 2014 :/
Velcis Ribeiro said:
Depends of the guys, i really appreciate the work of developers, but in 1 month, i see like 4 or 5 updates, with annoying updates like, NEW KEYBOARD, CHANGED BUILD.PROP and others, but nothing with NEW KERNEL, if possible get 3 or 4 developers to do 1 thing!! Or Stable kernel only in 2014 :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few questions:
There are not many devs left here. Do you think it is a good idea criticize our work like that?
Are you saying you don't want any updates unless it is a new kernel?
Have you considered trying to build a kernel yourself instead of complaining?
Just asking.....
I heard that the devs working on porting the XOOM kernel have progressed. Hopefully in due time...
It will, it's under development.
upndwn4par said:
A few questions:
There are not many devs left here. Do you think it is a good idea criticize our work like that?
Are you saying you don't want any updates unless it is a new kernel?
Have you considered trying to build a kernel yourself instead of complaining?
Just asking.....
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Click to collapse
Im not criticating man, i really appreciate your work, you win my 10+ repp i only said that these updates dont be affect anything that the guys test. Because, i see much guys from here, and from other forums, that trying ICS several weeks because it have a new update, did you understand? hehe
Dont think wrong about my answr ;P
What exactly is the point of threads like this? People around here are getting just too good at nothing but whining and complaining. FYI, opening a thread like this is exactly the same thing as asking for ETAs, and I really hope everyone knows you NEVER ask for ETAs here. Instead of littering the forum with useless whiny adn wallowy threads like this, you could have helped the development efforts yourself. But no, people would rather just sit around idly and complain and whihe.
If you want a stable and fully functional ICS/JB right away, get a different device. If you want it in some undefined time, have patience, be supportive and QUIT ASKING. Better yet, instead of just waiting, take initiative and MAKE IT HAPPEN YOURSELF.
Hey Guys, I've reported this thread. I've got fed up with threads like these. Only asking for ETAs, growing up a bad mood... not throwing good vibes at all. We need patience, not ETAs. If you need a kernel so bad, then you've gotta have patience. That'll do the trick
ravilov said:
What exactly is the point of threads like this? People around here are getting just too good at nothing but whining and complaining. FYI, opening a thread like this is exactly the same thing as asking for ETAs, and I really hope everyone knows you NEVER ask for ETAs here. Instead of littering the forum with useless whiny adn wallowy threads like this, you could have helped the development efforts yourself. But no, people would rather just sit around idly and complain and whihe.
If you want a stable and fully functional ICS/JB right away, get a different device. If you want it in some undefined time, have patience, be supportive and QUIT ASKING. Better yet, instead of just waiting, take initiative and MAKE IT HAPPEN YOURSELF.
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jhonnyx said:
Hey Guys, I've reported this thread. I've got fed up with threads like these. Only asking for ETAs, growing up a bad mood... not throwing good vibes at all. We need patience, not ETAs. If you need a kernel so bad, then you've gotta have patience. That'll do the trick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, you've reported this thread?! all the guy was asking was how things are progressing. After the initial excitement of the ics leak there hasn't been anything of very much. He said he appreciated the work of the people who put the time and effort into trying to keep our phone as current as possible. Who do you think you are Ravilov labeling someone as whiny and wallowing (although just what you think the poster is wallowing in is beyond me - he asked a simple question). As for your pathetic 'no one asks for eta's' comment... I can only assume you've been spending too much time here.
Thankfully, the question was answered bu Syl and takemeouttt.
This is a forum, where people ask questions and, hopefully, get civil and informative answers.
1) New Keyboard -- Because people wanted to try the new keyboard with 'Swype'-like features.
2) build.prop edits -- Because different people are having different issues with the ICS roms. Devs are pretty much taking stabs in the dark to see which combination helps which device. (tegra part?)
3) Xoom Kernel Port -- Is compiled, but will be a while before everyone can test it and/or have a stable release (source: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1941654)
As for your original question, there's a strong possibility we might, but don't expect it anytime soon. If it was that easy, Motorola would have done it at the same time they did it for Xoom. Remember, developers might also upgrade to newer devices. Would seem pointless to develop for a device--that even the manufacturer abandoned, when you have a shiny new device.
The current "team" of developers ARE working "together". In my experience, it's hard to collaborate on something with another person remotely, but they seem to be managing it. Going by the thread, there are at least 2 active developers. Might be others who aren't updating in the thread, but are simply contributing by email and/or other ways?
This thread may or may not be pointless. I think if it gets closed at this point, it might help someone trying to find a simple answer without going through 1000's of posts in the development section.
barry_ said:
wow, you've reported this thread?! all the guy was asking was how things are progressing. After the initial excitement of the ics leak there hasn't been anything of very much. He said he appreciated the work of the people who put the time and effort into trying to keep our phone as current as possible. Who do you think you are Ravilov labeling someone as whiny and wallowing (although just what you think the poster is wallowing in is beyond me - he asked a simple question). As for your pathetic 'no one asks for eta's' comment... I can only assume you've been spending too much time here.
Thankfully, the question was answered bu Syl and takemeouttt.
This is a forum, where people ask questions and, hopefully, get civil and informative answers.
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Maybe i've should answered this:
See the proper thread in the forum. Hint: search button.
Now thats an appropiate response to the question in the 1st post.
How long more do ppl keep their atrix?
toyota86 said:
How long more do ppl keep their atrix?
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I bought an atrix 2 weeks ago, i'm waiting to the delivery from China, so i think i would keep it for a year
I think that the community is simply misguided.
There is not a single post which clearly explains that we hit a brick wall regarding battery life.
Not knowing that, it IS frustrating to see a "new update!!" as the title of the ROM post and find only minor graphical changes inside.
There is a simple way to solve that, we need a sticky with an explanation regarding the entire Atrix ICS issue.
It should have a brief explanation that the ICS and JB roms that we have now are incomplete and generally suffer from graphical issues due to the old kernel constrains and even though we have a leaked version of the original ICS kernel, it is only barely functional and in most cases far from being a daily driver.
It will save a LOT of browsing (for me at least) since I check almost daily on the progress in the development section and it is quite a hassle to browse through all the latest comments for a clue of any changes or new ideas of how to make the rom work better and it will inform all those that don't bother checking and simply end up disappointed in the new changes.
Creating such a post is easy and I can do so if you'll approve of my idea, but the major point is to make it sticky and up to date, even if the update is simply updating the title just to show that no progress regarding kernel development/ ICS implementation for the Atrix was made.
I have no problems updating it either.
I adore the dev community here and all of you guys.
It's nice to see optimism where other developers and testers would just give up.
I love you guys and keep up the nice job. :highfive:
Why we just can't delete everything and add the rom from galaxy r
mixlis said:
Why we just can't delete everything and add the rom from galaxy r
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I think epinter tried taking the kernel from either the galaxy r and other similar phones and came out with the same issues as we get with the leaked kernel.
Sent from my LG-E970 using xda premium
Tough to say if it will ever happen, but at least there are a few people still interested enough to try. Seems the current best hope is this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2016837
All the top devs are working on the kernel plz support them by donating something try reading QandA section
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Does anyone know whats the most stable ICS/JB rom here? Need one with good battery life, & hwaccell...
First off, my apologies if a similar thread has already been posted. I have never seen one. I'm creating this thread to try to stress the importance of reading the OP's and entire threads of any ROM or MOD or any topics for that matter. Many questions that you may have, probably have already been answered within those threads. Redundant questions clog threads and hamper development discussion. Even if it may take a bit of time to read an entire thread, it will benefit everyone involved if you do. Our development community is incredibly rich with talent and skills and we, the users and flashers are most grateful to the developers for the time and knowledge they share with us. So please, keep threads clear by carefully reading instructions and trying to find any issues you may be having listed within the thread itself. Reading is beneficial, trust me. Again, if a similar thread has already been posted, I ask that the moderators remove this. I've just seen way too many questions posted repeatedly in all the threads I follow. After all, you will increase your own skill level by reading about all issues, even if you aren't currently experiencing it. Thanks to all who keep our devices updated and interesting.
EVOlved human
+1
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
[RANT]This user base. Aka the EVO LTE forums.
Why don't we start worrying about us and not them? They don't want to deal with XDA anymore ATM so just leave them be. Don't mention their names just pretend that this is a new device and we ourselves have to figure stuff out on our own. Got a question? SEARCH&READ, can't find it? Post a thread in Q&A. Mentioning them and talking about them isn't going to solve the cancer/problems you guys are. Not everyone is a problem just you guys make everything a problem. Try looking for your problem for a good 10 minutes on Google or XDA's Search Function. Not that hard people. I believe this is XDA-DEVELOPERS not the discuss about off topic things and what not. You got something useful post it here. If not don't post at all or if the thread have a Q&A post it there. If you got a question...again READ&SEARCH and don't ask it in here. If any ROM thread has a Q&A post it there. I think their problem with you guys is that most of us are just users and don't contribute anything and act like we care what's going on all you guys do is ask questions without even researching. Don't PM for your problems search it up or PM someone who isn't a Dev. For example say Corporal_modernback (lol example here) is the dev of the Rom you're using. DON'T PM THEM FOR LITTLE QUESTIONS LIKE "HEY HOW DO YOU FIX THIS TOGGLE OR HOW DO YOU GET YOUR PHONE TO DO TRIANGLES" PM THEM if you got a useful thing that they might need. If not them ask someone like me. I'm tired of seeing all this goodbye bull****. No offense to Captain and Sin but this is getting out of the line and YOU GUYS (THE PUBLIC/THE USERS) SHOULD START DOING S*** AND STOP BEING SPOILED PANSIES AND STOP EXPECTING **** TO BE DONE FOR YOU.
Thing is the devs here have lives. They're not robots on the computer that make these cool roms just for you.
Just my two cents. Feelings are welcomed.
Deleted to help clean up the mod edit.
EVOlved human
atheistevofreak said:
I agree and I posted a similar thread, a little less assertive, a week ago.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2657328
EVOlved human
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So you're saying he should have searched before posting?
I kid. I kid.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
dsEVOlve said:
So you're saying he should have searched before posting?
I kid. I kid.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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I must admit, I LOL'd.
EVOlved human
atheistevofreak said:
I must admit, I LOL'd.
EVOlved human
Click to expand...
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dsEVOlve said:
So you're saying he should have searched before posting?
I kid. I kid.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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Hahaha I thought that too. But I'm not looking for a thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
I'd like to think I'm not too much of a noob since I'm not "scared" of technology & modifying things I "shouldn't be touching". I can't count how many times I tried to dual-boot Windows and Linux, and completely scrap the former for the latter (fun times)...........................but I'm still trying to figure out what's the point of flashing a kernel
But even being a noob to cell phones and rooting/flashing them, XDA is laid out well enough for someone that can at least understand new technological things quickly to be able to know what's going on with their phone and what they can/can't do and should/shouldn't do to it to achieve what they want.
akaTRAP said:
I'd like to think I'm not too much of a noob since I'm not "scared" of technology & modifying things I "shouldn't be touching". I can't count how many times I tried to dual-boot Windows and Linux, and completely scrap the former for the latter (fun times)...........................but I'm still trying to figure out what's the point of flashing a kernel
But even being a noob to cell phones and rooting/flashing them, XDA is laid out well enough for someone that can at least understand new technological things quickly to be able to know what's going on with their phone and what they can/can't do and should/shouldn't do to it to achieve what they want.
Click to expand...
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A custom kernel will unleash extra features for your device. First thing I flash is a custom kernel
Sent from my HTCONE
n some cases the documentation is very wild and very on-the-go. Documentation is built over time and usually doesn't start off very well and can put-off certain users. Though that's not the problem.
What users need to understand that these development ROMs are not what you'd call a real release build. You're essentially testing everything that comes out... and that means it will have bugs. These ROMs, until "stable," are not plug and play type solutions. You are there to work with it and fix things. It always happens.
Change these user's mindset because that is the root cause. They think they're getting something that will be 100% what they want. It's not.
thicklizard said:
A custom kernel will unleash extra features for your device. First thing I flash is a custom kernel
Sent from my HTCONE
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Honestly, unless it greatly improves battery life, I'm not exactly concerned with the other benefits lol. I'm not necessarily needing an overclocked CPU.
However if a kernel makes a 4.4.x ROM more stable, then please let me know so I can flash one immediately
akaTRAP said:
Honestly, unless it greatly improves battery life, I'm not exactly concerned with the other benefits lol. I'm not necessarily needing an overclocked CPU.
However if a kernel makes a 4.4.x ROM more stable, then please let me know so I can flash one immediately
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You're totally preaching to the wrong choir.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
akaTRAP said:
Honestly, unless it greatly improves battery life, I'm not exactly concerned with the other benefits lol. I'm not necessarily needing an overclocked CPU.
However if a kernel makes a 4.4.x ROM more stable, then please let me know so I can flash one immediately
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure that you even understand why the kernels improve battery life. Custom kernels have much much more to bring to the table that simple overclocking, which is also something that most people do not do anymore since we don't have many single core decides these days.
Most kernels focus first on increasing performance. But by getting good performance, you get optimization from the processors, which results in better battery life (Intellidemand governor, anyone?).
If you want to greatly improve battery life, underclock your phone. You don't need a custom kernel to do that. But your phone will certainly suffer the speed differential that ours with custom kernels will not.
aarsyl said:
I'm not sure that you even understand why the kernels improve battery life. Custom kernels have much much more to bring to the table that simple overclocking, which is also something that most people do not do anymore since we don't have many single core decides these days.
Most kernels focus first on increasing performance. But by getting good performance, you get optimization from the processors, which results in better battery life (Intellidemand governor, anyone?).
If you want to greatly improve battery life, underclock your phone. You don't need a custom kernel to do that. But your phone will certainly suffer the speed differential that ours with custom kernels will not.
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Agreed too many people think all a custom kernel does is oc the the cpu. They don't understand the features they provide. S2w, USB fast charge, better cpu governors(better battery life), better io schedulers, build optimizations, etc...
Sent from my HTCONE
Ok, back on topic for a sec...
I have been holding my tongue and just sitting back watching all of the shenanigans that have been going down between Dev's and Noobs both. Honestly, I'm going to say that both parties are to blame in some fashion. (More on that in a second...)
As you can see my post count is not very high here. I have lurked...and read...and learned...and flashed...and broke things...read some more...and fixed even more things. With everything I have learned from this "amazing" community, I have been able to make my EVOLTE do some really truly amazing things. Some people have gone out of their way to help and make sure that the XDA-experience is a good one. Some, on the other hand have not... That happens with every forum in existance. There will be jerks, trolls, noobs, fools, and people who just wont use the search function, RTFM, etc.
There are "other" forums available that have a lot of info about Android development, none IMHO that happen to be as organized and concise as XDA. The down-side is that XDA has gotten a reputation for being full of pretentious as$holes. We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
My experience has been lukewarm at best. I, for one, know that I know almost nothing about dev'ing. I would love to learn more but between age, having a family, work (2 jobs BTW), I probably won't be able to just "RTFM" for dev'ing. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
In closing, I just want to say I know the Dev's are busy! @chubbzlou @Captain_Throwback @Sinistertensai @FinZ28 This hard work is not unappreciated in any way guys and THANK YOU!
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
2 pennies.
Mike Boogie said:
Ok, back on topic for a sec...
I have been holding my tongue and just sitting back watching all of the shenanigans that have been going down between Dev's and Noobs both. Honestly, I'm going to say that both parties are to blame in some fashion. (More on that in a second...)
As you can see my post count is not very high here. I have lurked...and read...and learned...and flashed...and broke things...read some more...and fixed even more things. With everything I have learned from this "amazing" community, I have been able to make my EVOLTE do some really truly amazing things. Some people have gone out of their way to help and make sure that the XDA-experience is a good one. Some, on the other hand have not... That happens with every forum in existance. There will be jerks, trolls, noobs, fools, and people who just wont use the search function, RTFM, etc.
There are "other" forums available that have a lot of info about Android development, none IMHO that happen to be as organized and concise as XDA. The down-side is that XDA has gotten a reputation for being full of pretentious as$holes. We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
My experience has been lukewarm at best. I, for one, know that I know almost nothing about dev'ing. I would love to learn more but between age, having a family, work (2 jobs BTW), I probably won't be able to just "RTFM" for dev'ing. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
In closing, I just want to say I know the Dev's are busy! @chubbzlou @Captain_Throwback @Sinistertensai @FinZ28 This hard work is not unappreciated in any way guys and THANK YOU!
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
2 pennies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said. Kudos.
EVOlved human
Mike Boogie said:
Ok, back on topic for a sec...
I have been holding my tongue and just sitting back watching all of the shenanigans that have been going down between Dev's and Noobs both. Honestly, I'm going to say that both parties are to blame in some fashion. (More on that in a second...)
As you can see my post count is not very high here. I have lurked...and read...and learned...and flashed...and broke things...read some more...and fixed even more things. With everything I have learned from this "amazing" community, I have been able to make my EVOLTE do some really truly amazing things. Some people have gone out of their way to help and make sure that the XDA-experience is a good one. Some, on the other hand have not... That happens with every forum in existance. There will be jerks, trolls, noobs, fools, and people who just wont use the search function, RTFM, etc.
There are "other" forums available that have a lot of info about Android development, none IMHO that happen to be as organized and concise as XDA. The down-side is that XDA has gotten a reputation for being full of pretentious as$holes. We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
My experience has been lukewarm at best. I, for one, know that I know almost nothing about dev'ing. I would love to learn more but between age, having a family, work (2 jobs BTW), I probably won't be able to just "RTFM" for dev'ing. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
In closing, I just want to say I know the Dev's are busy! @chubbzlou @Captain_Throwback @Sinistertensai @FinZ28 This hard work is not unappreciated in any way guys and THANK YOU!
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
2 pennies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People all over XDA pm me with question on how to port and ask for advice I am more than willing to help out anyone if they want to learn. I don't mind answering question about anything just I do get annoyed when ppl ask the same question that has been answered many time in the thread or question about issue because they are coming from cm rom to sense rom and flash with out wiping and complaining about FCs. I agree us Dev's do take it a little too far but ppl need to understand that we get frustrated about non sense. We do this for fun but it's starting to feel like and old toy that out live it's use.
If you are willing to learn and have sometime pm with any question you like.
Mike Boogie said:
. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are numerous threads in the xda general section and also if you use Google many times it will point you to a different device forum on xda that will have a "how to" thread that had nothing to do with that specific device. There is more info out there than you could possibly read.
It's just not all in this devices forum. Which it doesn't need to be.
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
chubbzlou said:
If you are willing to learn and have sometime pm with any question you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I certainly will, whenever that time arrives.
_______________________________________
Phone: HTC EVO 4G LTE
Sense 5, S-Off
Tablet: ASUS Nexus 7.2
Rooted, Custom Rom & Kernel
_______________________________________
Mike Boogie said:
We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As with anything in life, we remember the bad much longer then we do the good. With a bazillion members, we are bound to have a few that know how to invoke bad reactions
Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA University
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We mods are always here. While we may not answer in a timely fashion, suitable for some, we too are only human and get to peoples reports ASAP. Please always use the report button when you feel the ground comming out from beneath you. @FinZ28 is one of XDAs shinning examples of a Recognized Contributor. he gained his stripes by helping. Without the RC group, there would be much more chaos then what you have encountered.
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry you feel this way. It's a rarity of Devs (now a day) to determine the capability of any user.
Now consider the average 10 - 15y/o that comes in and demands attention (this of course never happens) and the end run is, had they read the slightest, they would have found an answer. Sadly today, this is the norm on XDA! That is what our Developers deal with.
While some Devs can be harsh or down right immature, we are here to try and keep the peace between the fractions.
And let me end with these parting words... Do not take offense to this, but see the humor XDA back in the 4 million member realm