Alright here's the deal. I have an app idea for a game that I plan on creating that is very simple, and I have a good feeling it will take off. My worries is that developing it will almost be pointless because of the lax android market policy. I am a new programmer, so my worry is I will make the app pretty decent, and some more experienced programmer will be able to duplicate it and make it better. This just doesn't seem right. I know this happens all the time (Fruit Slice, for example, is a Fruit Ninja knockoff and it's free).
Android is a love it/ hate it relationship. Users love being able to download just as good of knockoffs for free, but I'm sure this is a major turn off for developers who worked hard on their original idea's, just to have it undercut by another developer who will offer a similar (or even better app) for free. Part of me wishes I could just develop it for iOS, but I don't have a Mac or iPhone, and don't ever plan on getting one.
My question is, is there anyway to stop it? Like a patent, or something similar? This is my major hesitation to developing for android. I know I'm not going to be the best programmer out there, but it's the idea that make the apps, and that's where I feel like (I'm sure a lot of other people do too) I could do some contributing. Let me know how you guys feel about this
Anybody? 10Char
welcome to programming for any platform. There are (free) alternatives to almost every single program (android-based, windows-based, etc...)
I think you're in a very bad place to ask about that question. Programmers are usually not at all fond of patents since they tend to be overly broad, hard to detect and generally of low quality. (In case you haven't noticed that's also my opinion)
But yes, if that's what you want to do, a patent would be the way to go. Copyright protects your code, but not your idea.
Make it free. Put ads on it. If it takes off make an iOS one
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using XDA App
As far as I can remember, from my Intellectual Property Law class, software (i.e. apps) cannot be the subject of a patent. But of course, this changes from country to country.
Here are some links you might want to read up on:
http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/en/patents_faq.html#software
http://www.freibrun.com/articles/articl2.htm
Computer-based inventions... yeah, they're not supposed to be patentable: Not in the US and even less in the EU. The key point is how computer-based inventions is defined. The standard way around it is simply to patent "a machine doing XY" instead of "XY"
Basically, the patent clerks don't check for anything but formalities. I used to help out on the peertopatent platform, but it just became ridicolous because the clerks would let everything through no matter what prior art or explanations of obviousness we provided.
Patenting is the worst thing you can do. Don't you read all the patent BS going around lately? Also, spending money on a patent won't be enough, you'll also need to spent money enforcing it, and you won't make any friends by being a litigator.
All you can do is provide the best product you can come up with and hope for the best. If someone makes something similar but better, well, you'll just have to work harder. Or drop the whole thing.
But as others have said, you'll have this problem on *all* platforms. A practical example, when Nero released their burning app for Linux, my thought was "This is kinda cool, but why would I pay for Nero, when there's K3B and other apps that to the job, but are open source and free?"
The trick is to provide something others don't have. In the case of NeroLinux it's familiarity for ex-Windows folks or dual-booters. In your case it could be more features, better graphics, easier to navigate interface, regularly provided additional content... something in that direction.
Hey all,
I've been a lurker for a while, been looking for a way to encourage the now Google-owned Motorola Mobility to unlock their bootloaders much like HTC has wisely done, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that they don't care about the "minority" of us that actually feels as though we are entitled to full admin rights on our phones that we either paid a ton of cash for, or signed a lengthy contract to obtain. Verizon is the one blocking it? HTC found a way, and so can Motorola Mobility...that is cop-out.
My proposal is that there be an effort to unlocked the bootloader, I am not some expert programmer, and I am open to whatever will help the cause. I know there was a bounty on it, but to me this isn't about money, I'll donate time, money, information ripped from my phone if it, in some way, contributes to unlocked that bootloader. Even if you need my unused CPU cycles to calculate things, I don't care, just tell me what I can to do help, because I am sick of not being able to use my phone to it's fully potential.
Maybe I am being naive, but I believe if we all worked together we could accomplish this goal. If you agree, please, let's organize and figure this out!
-Joshua
I love optimism
I'm down with the movement...
This phone does have mad potential to be so limited compared to other phones.
I just can't believe that we are running an unofficial, incomplete version of CM7 and it runs smoother than stock Blur.
Is that telling you something about Motorola?
Do you guys think Google will make that decision for Motorola or will Moto stay the same?
Sent from my Android
Worth a try...
Re: Google changing Moto policy
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
spyda256 said:
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love your optimism i have some old pms that may help with the effort
SHA-1 brute force can be cracked for around $2 of Amazon cloud computing service.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/r...for-2-10-with-amazons-cloud-service-20101122/
Isn't boot loader use SHA-1 encryption?
(of course, the key may be much longer, but it may not be impossible for cheap. I say try to pool together like $100 and try Amazon cloud computing a try?)
Re: Amazon
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
spyda256 said:
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can def send you them, idk how much help theyll be
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In one of the many threads concerning bootloader unlocks, I believe the chances of us finding it were determined to be 1mill:1. It would take us over a decade to manually come up with the key. I don't want to kill confidence, but I'd like to keep things relatively rational.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's been established that brute forcing is nearly impossible, not completely impossible
it is something that would take an insane amount of resources to accomplish , and/or time ,
it would really come down to "how lucky are we?" really, as in::: how lucky are we that we stumble across or know a genius that can crack it, stumble across needed files, etc...
good luck to all who try, I wish I could do anything to get us there, but I don't know the first thing when it comes to this stuff, don't give up the dream!
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
hpark21 said:
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was some kind of crazy algorithm applied to each character to generate the correct item for each number of the key, correct? We would have to come up with that too?
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
THANK YOU! Finally ... a revived movement. I pledged $100 on another thread and I'm good for putting it toward an unlocked bootloader again!
To learn from one of the most influential groups of our generation ... anonymous utilizes botnets to pool computing resources ... if we get a tool that could function similarly, could we not pool 1000s of computers together to crack it faster? It would make what is not feasible for a small set of computers to do... feasible. If all most users have to do is download a tool that gives us access to processing power and bandwidth ... users will download the hell out of it.
Count me in.
[ sent from _base2 ]
Hope
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
spyda256 said:
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sir, did you get my pms?
Re: PMs
Nope, just saw them, thanks for that!
Ok so I am learning coding Android apps. I wanted to know if learning math helps in anything other than developing math related apps. I have seen seen cube live wallpaper code and from what i see i think math is required for animation.
But still I would like to know if my math should be strong for this development.
Thanks a lot
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
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Moving to Q&A
It really depends on what kind of an application you are developing.
You don't need to be great at Math to implement something like a spinning cube. For this specific kind of application you'd need to have some knowledge of matrices and transformations in 3d. Even if you don't know the math behind something, you can always learn it
So, if you are considering developing something that you think needs a good knowledge of some mathematical concepts, I'd say just get to developing it without worrying too much about what knowledge you need. If and when you find yourself stuck on something because you don't understand a mathematical concept, it is at this point that you should worry about learning it.
Another way of looking at this is "We are programmers, not mathematicians".
There are many programmers out there who use math libraries, which abstracts all of the complex mathematics behind the code. Hence allowing them to focus on the application they are developing.
Well, I am a lawyer and not a coder, though I like math very much, I can code in bash, some python, basic skills of c, c++ and java. In Italy all the coders who are 35 or older are able to code in several languages and environments and use math a lot, while younger coders are usually focused on one or two languages and don't use math very much. That's the trend that has been reported by my sister's husband, who's a Linux developer.
Just think that a young engineer of his team isn't able to make simple bash scripts to test a patch written in c++ by creating a couple of symbolic links.
The world more and more requires people highly specialized, but widely ignorant....
My suggestion is always to be curious, because math is the world itself and even when you put in your wifi mask a stupid sequence of numbers 192.xxx and so on, that's math.
I hope I wasn't a bore, but I like to know what is hidden behind what I do
The_R said:
It really depends on what kind of an application you are developing.
You don't need to be great at Math to implement something like a spinning cube. For this specific kind of application you'd need to have some knowledge of matrices and transformations in 3d. Even if you don't know the math behind something, you can always learn it
So, if you are considering developing something that you think needs a good knowledge of some mathematical concepts, I'd say just get to developing it without worrying too much about what knowledge you need. If and when you find yourself stuck on something because you don't understand a mathematical concept, it is at this point that you should worry about learning it.
Another way of looking at this is "We are programmers, not mathematicians".
There are many programmers out there who use math libraries, which abstracts all of the complex mathematics behind the code. Hence allowing them to focus on the application they are developing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot. I will do that. Learn something after I am stuck. That's the best approach I think personally.
lucaoldb said:
Well, I am a lawyer and not a coder, though I like math very much, I can code in bash, some python, basic skills of c, c++ and java. In Italy all the coders who are 35 or older are able to code in several languages and environments and use math a lot, while younger coders are usually focused on one or two languages and don't use math very much. That's the trend that has been reported by my sister's husband, who's a Linux developer.
Just think that a young engineer of his team isn't able to make simple bash scripts to test a patch written in c++ by creating a couple of symbolic links.
The world more and more requires people highly specialized, but widely ignorant....
My suggestion is always to be curious, because math is the world itself and even when you put in your wifi mask a stupid sequence of numbers 192.xxx and so on, that's math.
I hope I wasn't a bore, but I like to know what is hidden behind what I do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree we should be curious but I think if I start learning at once I may soon get bored. That's my opinion though. But I agree after sometime knowing more is better.
I was wondering if anyone is doing this. I have no experience when it comes to programming (at all) but I'm a quick learner and willing to learn when it comes to extra money
I know there are some tricks like pay $50-100 to some developer to create an app exclusively for you and then you sell it on the market and earn cash from it, but I don't really feel like using someone else work for that. I wanna create my own stuff.
I've noticed that some live wallpapers sell over 100k copies over a year, for about $1, that is about $100.000. Which is A LOT more than what I earn per year. And I believe it doesn't take a long time to create a nice live wallpaper. On top of that you can create a bunch of other stuff and earn even more.
So, I wanna know, how hard is it to learn how to create live wallpapers or smaller games/apps for Android platform? Does it work? Is there anything I should know?
I'm currently in the process of learning Android development (apps, compiling ROMs, etc) and I had absolutely no experience in programming before. I've always been a big computer nerd though, so learning programming came pretty easy to me since I had a good understanding of computers and have been using them since a very young age. (I'm now 18)
If you want to learn how to make apps, there are a lot of resources out there to help you learn to write android apps. Here are some of my bookmarks for android apps -
Android App Development Tutorial
Google - Android Training
Some great youtube tutorials
Also if you get serious about it I highly recommend buying a book called Android How to Program. It's a great book and is really helping me gain a much better understanding of the underlying code that makes an app.
Thanks for the input
I'm still looking for the business point of view, as if this is worth doing as side job/part time job..
well, i am also learning how the things work in the android world, and ive made a few soundboards just for testing. But yea its possible i think everyone can think of an app the other thing is to make it. But it looks like everyone is now in the android business and by the time i actually get good with the software and things there might not be a spot for me
TH90 said:
well, i am also learning how the things work in the android world, and ive made a few soundboards just for testing. But yea its possible i think everyone can think of an app the other thing is to make it. But it looks like everyone is now in the android business and by the time i actually get good with the software and things there might not be a spot for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is always place for creativity.
Hi i am interested in becoming a developer. I have been researching schools that have bachelor degrees in mobile operating systems. The most clear cut program i have found is through full sail university.. However they font have the best credentials. I had wondering what some of the developers and mods might think of full sail and any recommendations they might have for other programs
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I827 using xda app-developers app
Others can correct me if they disagree, but I think that the reason that you're not finding much in the way of "mobile operating systems" degree programs is that there just aren't that many schools that have a program that narrowly focused, especially in an area so (relatively) newly booming. I'm interested in a career in mobile developemtn and I'm nearing the end of a Computer Science bachelors program, and I feel like I've been very well served by it -- I think you're much more likely to find long-term success if you look more towards a general Computer Science degree at a reputable college or university rather than some flashy super-specific program at a for-profit school like Full Sail University. I'm not inclined to say that their program would hold up.
lyric234 said:
Hi i am interested in becoming a developer. I have been researching schools that have bachelor degrees in mobile operating systems. The most clear cut program i have found is through full sail university.. However they font have the best credentials. I had wondering what some of the developers and mods might think of full sail and any recommendations they might have for other programs
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I827 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you want is a BS in computer science because you need to learn the languages, not how to do one specific thing. The main idea behind it all is learning how to think like a programmer. I've seen mobile app dev classes at my university, but they normally require pre req computer science classes and they aren't part of a degree program.
- In reality though many programmers never go to school. Everything you need to know is on the internet. It will be a long road but well worth it, the hardest part is getting started, and sticking with it. I'd suggest starting here:
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/want-to-learn-how-to-program-for-android-start-here/
I agree with the other two posters. Dont pursue a degree in mobile developing. Who knows, maybe within 5 years the next big thing might be here and render all this mobile stuff useless. However, all this programming and how to think like a programmer stuff will still be around, not to say that things you learn from mobile development wont be relevant though. When you fully decide to go this route, stick with it and be dedicated. You will spend many, many, many nights trying to do the simplest things. You will need plenty of time to study and code. If you have kids, it'll be even tougher but still doable if you are dedicated, you'll just simply sleep a lot less. There will also be many night when some strange errors will seem unsolvable and that's when it'll push you to your limits. At that point, it makes or breaks a lot of people and I have reason to believe it breaks a lot of folks. Anyway, its a long road ahead. It took me a very long time to create my fist app and it was the simplest app ever. If I had to build that app again, I could probably do it in less than a hour and it'll probably be better than the first one, haha. Also, most developers know that its something like 90% of the code is already written for you, its the 10% of what you code that make it unique and yours. Good luck.