Hellooo~!
I'm a tad new to the world of Android Development, but have plenty of programming history. I'm going to be starting a project to get Arch Linux running on my Photon 4G, and am contemplating making this public. My end goal is to get it working on the Photon, with a working on-screen keyboard, decent battery life, and lapdock/HDMI/peripheral support.
If you're a bit skeptical, know that there is a distribution of Arch Linux that supports ARMv5-v7 processors.
So before I begin my journey, I want to know:
Is anyone interested in this?
Sounds interesting. It appears you may be doing something different than the typical chroot method? As an Archlinux desktop user, a phone version would be cool.
Best of luck with your project. If you need testers, I would be willing to try to help.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
jahildebra said:
Hellooo~!
I'm a tad new to the world of Android Development, but have plenty of programming history. I'm going to be starting a project to get Arch Linux running on my Photon 4G, and am contemplating making this public. My end goal is to get it working on the Photon, with a working on-screen keyboard, decent battery life, and lapdock/HDMI/peripheral support.
If you're a bit skeptical, know that there is a distribution of Arch Linux that supports ARMv5-v7 processors.
So before I begin my journey, I want to know:
Is anyone interested in this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mighty ambitious! Im definitely interested in this. Arch is one of my favorite distributions. I'm concerned about the usability of it though. What desktop environment would you aim to use? Are there any that I'm unaware of that that are geared toward mobile phones?
jbaumert said:
Sounds interesting. It appears you may be doing something different than the typical chroot method? As an Archlinux desktop user, a phone version would be cool.
Best of luck with your project. If you need testers, I would be willing to try to help.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to see you're interested!
As far as getting Arch on the phone, I want to the phone to boot straight into the Arch environment without the Android system in the background. This may not be possible due to the phones bootloader, but if anything I'll have an extremely minimal version of Android acting as a crutch for Arch, helping it to boot up and perform other operations. The system should be 90% Arch Linux.
Please don't take this the wrong way but as long as it has nothing to do with the current chroot/VNC method I'm all for it. The chroot method lacks access to the phone's hardware so things like audio, USB host don't work.
If chroot/VNC is what you are trying to avoid then you may want to look at Gentop2 and kholk's original Gentop project. This should give you an idea as to how they achieved framebuffer and hardware access. If you want to provide support for Tegra2 Moto's you'll need to keep the install below 755MB for Atrix support unless a webtop2sd type method will be used.
Another thing you may want to consider is that the upcoming ICS update and AOSP lack the needed framebuffer/HW access. You may need to hack and kang a far bit to get ICS and AOSP support.
Acvice said:
Mighty ambitious! Im definitely interested in this. Arch is one of my favorite distributions. I'm concerned about the usability of it though. What desktop environment would you aim to use? Are there any that I'm unaware of that that are geared toward mobile phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahah, I was just thinking about that myself. As per my knowledge, there are ZERO DE's geared towards phones. We could come pretty close to the mobile-phone experience using a tablet/netbook-oriented DE, similar to Unity. Unity is capable of running on Arch, but I don't know if it's ARM compatible, or how smoothly it would run on a small processor like the Tegra 2. If anything I could just configure an Xmonad environment that runs entirely off of mouse/touch gestures.
jahildebra said:
Hahah, I was just thinking about that myself. As per my knowledge, there are ZERO DE's geared towards phones. We could come pretty close to the mobile-phone experience using a tablet/netbook-oriented DE, similar to Unity. Unity is capable of running on Arch, but I don't know if it's ARM compatible, or how smoothly it would run on a small processor like the Tegra 2. If anything I could just configure an Xmonad environment that runs entirely off of mouse/touch gestures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unity can run on ARM and is pretty but fairly resource heavy. Canonical has Ubuntu 12 running on an Atrix2 but have no intention of releasing source at this time. I would suggest staying with a lightweight "Unity like" enviro. This will free up resources for other things.
Might I suggest OpenBox? Extremely lightweight and easily configurable to suit the needs of a small screen. Desktops and windows are easily manageable from a single bottom bar, all application categories pop up in a menu when taping on any part of the 'desktop', all with gradients and transparency as needed so to still be slick looking. My mental imagine of the setup would be similar to that of Webos and easily achievable and user friendly. A particular distribution that i've been using for a while whom has really made the flexibility of Openbox shine is Crunchbang. The dude who runs the distro has developed many little GUI utilities that are made to configure Openboxs' script-based setup. So if you decided to use it, a lot of work is already done so to speak. Check it out and see if you get any inspiration!
Acvice said:
Might I suggest OpenBox? Extremely lightweight and easily configurable to suit the needs of a small screen. Desktops and windows are easily manageable from a single bottom bar, all application categories pop up in a menu when taping on any part of the 'desktop', all with gradients and transparency as needed so to still be slick looking. My mental imagine of the setup would be similar to that of Webos and easily achievable and user friendly. A particular distribution that i've been using for a while whom has really made the flexibility of Openbox shine is Crunchbang. The dude who runs the distro has developed many little GUI utilities that are made to configure Openboxs' script-based setup. So if you decided to use it, a lot of work is already done so to speak. Check it out and see if you get any inspiration!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion! I've never used OpenBox before, but I've heard its customizability is similar to Xmonad's.
I'll check it out!
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
What's your intended target user base? Will it Linux n00b, average linux user or linux power user?
Lokifish Marz said:
What's your intended target user base? Will it Linux n00b, average linux user or linux power user?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly average/power users. Arch Linux is definitely not for the weak hearted.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Lokifish Marz said:
What's your intended target user base? Will it Linux n00b, average linux user or linux power user?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, generally speaking, Arch is most certainly not for Linux noobs
::edit::
Haha, totally didnt see there was a page 2. Jahildebra already said it.
The reason I asked is that I agree that Arch "out of the box" is more "power user" than say Ubuntu Desktop but not much more so than most server distros. It would really depend on what extras are put in. Arch running Gnome with all the bells and whistles could be very n00b friendly if set up with them in mind. Then again my perspective may be a little off as I still remember Mandrake coming on floppies with only a command line installer.
Lokifish Marz said:
The reason I asked is that I agree that Arch "out of the box" is more "power user" than say Ubuntu Desktop but not much more so than most server distros. It would really depend on what extras are put in. Arch running Gnome with all the bells and whistles could be very n00b friendly if set up with them in mind. Then again my perspective may be a little off as I still remember Mandrake coming on floppies with only a command line installer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah I get what you're sayin. As long as you hook people up with multimedia codecs, a good package manager, and some necessary apps i think even noobs would be happy. And I havnt heard anyone mention Mandrake in many years since Mandriva. I popped into the linux scene around Ubuntus dapper drake release. Ever since Ive ran debian.
Well, it seems like there's interest aplenty.
I'll be starting the project as soon as possible.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
More interest will arrive when some solid progress is made im sure. I do have a question though.. Im a little unsure of how you plan to get sms, mms, data and such working on this. Or maybe i missed the point entirely. Is it not meant to be a fully functional replacement of android?
Acvice said:
More interest will arrive when some solid progress is made im sure. I do have a question though.. Im a little unsure of how you plan to get sms, mms, data and such working on this. Or maybe i missed the point entirely. Is it not meant to be a fully functional replacement of android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will be one of the biggest challenges, alongside getting Arch to boot initially and having the phone be usable even without a physical keyboard. I plan to at least have 3G working, but I don't quite know how that will play out. None of the devices Arch Linux ARM has a release for have a 3G radio in the first place, so we have no examples to follow, and we'll have to figure this out on our own.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
What utility does Ubuntu and other desktop distro's use to accept usb tethering from any android phone? I'm guessing netcfg (it's all I know in that department) is the norm, if so there may be a way to point it at the radio internally and then play around with settings for data and possibly calls. Webtop may still be running acual Android but it still has configuration files just like everything else in linux. We should be able to figure this out over time.
Interested? Not as such... More like curious.
I'm new to Linux and have never really been able to gain a foothold. I'm still kicking myself for building a gaming PC and thus tying myself to Windows. With Steam announcing support for Linux... If Bethesda joins them and support for the Fallout games and Skyrim comes to Linux... bye bye Windows. But for now Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't like my computer. And Arch isn't Ubuntu, but I'm willing to learn.
Would this support the phone parts? I understand that Arch has ARM builds, and they support a Tegra 2 device very similar to the Photon/Electrify, but that device doesn't have a CDMA radio in it, and possibly other components. Does it have Bluetooth? In any case, you'd need drivers for the hardware specifically in the Photon/Electrify, and Motorola hasn't been very forthcoming with community support.
As for keyboards, anyone in America at least can get a physical keyboard for $16. Newegg has a mini keyboard like an iMac's for $15 shipped, and Amazon has a USB OTG cable for under a buck. The two won't work for me on my phone under a couple CM10 ROMs, though. I read for drives it's a matter of power, but a keyboard shouldn't draw any (surely the 100mA the phone puts out over the micro USB should be enough for the caps/num/scroll lock LEDs). But the software on the phone has to support a keyboard that way; I don't know that Android knows to expect input that way.
Related
I am a long-time Linux user, and have noticed there's some support for getting vanilla Linux onto Tegra prototyping hardware. Nvidia has some walkthroughs, there's an ARM based Arch district, which I think would be a good starting point. Does anyone have any suggestions on where I should start?
I'd like to see KDE or Meego as a GUI, with dalvik running on the side. I think it'd be a wonderfully flexible tool at that point!
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This needs to be moved to Q&A or maybe General but certainly not DEVELOPER.
It should be in development
sent from cm7 atrix 1.3ghz
the question is what exactly you want to achieve, is it only to have that linux distro on it or to have it next to android like webtop is now? as much as i saw nvidia has all the tutorials and support for ubuntu, which i dont really like so i was playing around with gentoo for it, but it is quite a nightmare to get it to run like a webtop, i think it should be way more simple getting it to run next to cm7, however gentoo takes a lot of time to compile and set up (but is faster and more space conservative than), so probably Arch is better. as for running only linux you would have to create your own kernel and ramdisk for it probably and than go on from there, since we cant change the bootloader to just load linux directly. just as a side note this should probably be in fact in the Q&A section since there is no real development made here, just discussing options.
What about running Ubuntu netbook edition? I run Ubuntu all the time, it's very stable and fast, but for this application it needs to be small and lightweight, so for that case we could go to the netbook edition. Just a thought.
I think Arch would be easiest, as it uses vanilla sources (Ubuntu heavily patches their packages) and has the most transparent configuration stuffs.
I'm rather familiar with Linux, I'm just less familiar with phone hacking and partitions.
I'd really like to see Linux running in place of android, with the dalvik machine there to be able to run android apps. Android is VERY messy.
I'm thinking the telephony end of things will be difficult, but maybe not impossible. I will be working on this, and will be pursuing it, so I think "development" is where it belongs.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Hi killer_siller,
I know this isn't for the atrix, but it could be a good beginning for you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10181908
Swyped from "Mount" Olympus
nitrox1 said:
Hi killer_siller,
I know this isn't for the atrix, but it could be a good beginning for you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10181908
Swyped from "Mount" Olympus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've played with that on a few phones, and it's not as good as the experience you get from Native Linux - ala the HD2.
Nvidia has quite a lot of resources available for their Tegra stuffs:
http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/category/zone/mobile-development
Here's ArchLinuxARM; they're actively developing Tegra stuffs:
http://archlinuxarm.org/
Here's a Meego dev who got meego working on Tegra2 hardware:
http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/TEGRA2
I think it's a bit dated, though
I think Meego would be the easiest route to functioning native linux on the Atrix, as it's already made for handsets, and they're already working to get android apps to run in it natively.
This may seem like a circuitous route, but you couldn't imagine how powerful this hardware could be when you peel away the android mess.
you might want to check this thread out, unfortunately the package he attached is corrupt: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1180800 u think with cm7 it should be substantially easier to get the xserver to run properly. yes meego would be best in fact but everyone is dropping support for it so ...
More fun and games coming our way...
http://mobilitydigest.com/hp-gives-webos-to-the-open-source-community
Hopefully CM team will utilize that.
wootsauce baby
What can this mean for us, more kernels and drivers right?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
r4dik4l said:
What can this mean for us, more kernels and drivers right?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. No more reverse engineering. Think of your touchpad as another HTC HD2 for tablets.
i like that. the HTC HD2 of the tablets XD. great news for us cause ill be ordering mine sunday .
Yeah I think I'll get one on sat from HP on eBay.... supposed to be another fire sale
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App
Very good news for both OSes : CM dev would be faster with sources and webOS might be improved by community knowledge.
Happier and much more having bought a TP
I was thinking of getting rid of my touchpad since android progress was slow and there are so many nicer tablets coming out. But now guess I will wait a little longer.
I really would love to see WebOS take off. I like it better then Android in some ways. It would be cool if Android apps could run on webOS. Now maybe it could happen.
Why not
gedster314 said:
I was thinking of getting rid of my touchpad since android progress was slow and there are so many nicer tablets coming out. But now guess I will wait a little longer.
I really would love to see WebOS take off. I like it better then Android in some ways. It would be cool if Android apps could run on webOS. Now maybe it could happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I do not understand.
IPhone, Android, and WebOS are all Linux.
Why aren't all the apps interchangeable?
What is really different about an IPK or an APK?
ccbeam said:
That's what I do not understand.
IPhone, Android, and WebOS are all Linux.
Why aren't all the apps interchangeable?
What is really different about an IPK or an APK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Android, iOS, and WebOS are all based on Linux kernels. The difference between them is that each has a different "framework" to access the kernel features. The "framework" is basically an API (Application Programming Interface) that interacts with the Linux kernel that is basically controlling the hardware.
Hence, an application that emulates one OS while running another is simply doing a translation from a program written for a particular API into the native OS API. The problems with emulators are of course, first and formost performance, and second it may not be possible to translate all actions from one API to the other.
I remember the days when the argument for Linux was that it is portable from platform to platform... just recompile and off you go.
just because they are releasing the source for webos does not mean they are releasing any touchpad specific source. Our version of webos may never be open sourced. it's a possibility.
http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
Pretty stoked for this.
Must. Get. Hands. On. This. !.
Thank you for the link, intesting to know. And it also makes my feet tingle with excitement.
right there with u sir
Here is a video of Ubuntu for Android in Action. Officially supported. No hacks or dual boot needed.
---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------
Updated post with video
Very excited to try this.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/21/ubuntus-full-desktop-os-coming-to-multi-core-android-devices/
engadget article
That would be so amazing !
Only problem I see is that Ubuntu for Android only seems to be available for vendors (Asus, Motorola, HTC, Samsung, ...) and mobile carriers (AT&T, Bell, ...)
Hope that the Cyanogenmod team can get their hands on this. CM9 + Ubuntu for Android would be so AWESOME !!!
Could this mean that we can get linux usb support instead of having to hack together drivers to support hardware?
foboi1122 said:
Could this mean that we can get linux usb support instead of having to hack together drivers to support hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would think so since USB is one of the requirements to run it.
wonder if anyone get a first hand on this. I would not mind to be beta tester.
The Prime is more than capable to handle it.
huytrang90 said:
wonder if anyone get a first hand on this. I would not mind to be beta tester.
The Prime is more than capable to handle it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep! Also like the Ubuntu people said, the more cores, the better. Now this will be something to take advantage of powerful multi-threading capabilities of prime. Quad core tegra3 would push this easily n very fast n smooth also.
This will only work if they can keep the heat down on the processor. That's gonna be the biggest road block that I can see. 4G + charging = hot, so 4G + charging + hdmi mirroring + mucho computing = sizzler. Not sure how hot LTE gets a phone.
This is still a very cool development.
I may be looking at this wrong though, b/c the provided info is mainly about using a phone as a desktop, but the prime could be the desktop. In which, yes, it would definitely have the power to run ubuntu but what is the point? There are already guides to running ubuntu on the prime. Is ubuntu w unity more polished than what is already available?
NastroGlide said:
This will only work if they can keep the heat down on the processor. That's gonna be the biggest road block that I can see. 4G + charging = hot, so 4G + charging + hdmi mirroring + mucho computing = sizzler. Not sure how hot LTE gets a phone.
This is still a very cool development.
I may be looking at this wrong though, b/c the provided info is mainly about using a phone as a desktop, but the prime could be the desktop. In which, yes, it would definitely have the power to run ubuntu but what is the point? There are already guides to running ubuntu on the prime. Is ubuntu w unity more polished than what is already available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, plus you won't have to jump through hoops to get it to work. It'll be officially supported by Android n Ubuntu. No need to hack or dual boot or whatever. It'll launch like an app. Once in desktop mode, Ubuntu, then everything integrated. So you can even launch your android apps from within Ubuntu. Plus access to all the thousands of free full fledged Ubuntu PC apps. So this will be a more complete version than anything we've seen so far on prime. Plus it'll be alot more powerful. Linux/Ubuntu(Backtrack5) on prime doesn't have complete access to prime power, CPU/GPU, and resources. Everything with this new method will be seamlessly integrated into the android experience.
This might just be what android needed to get it over the hump. I can only see things getting better very fast from here on out. Apple has nothing to match or even come close to this experience we about to have.
My apologies but im not familiar with Ubuntu. What kind of advantages are we going to see. Will this be better than Android in terms of games, apps, productivity, etc? Better office? Better Browsing?
Also, whats with the whole docking situation? And anyone have more information on when this is gonna come out?
Thanks
xGary said:
My apologies but im not familiar with Ubuntu. What kind of advantages are we going to see. Will this be better than Android in terms of games, apps, productivity, etc? Better office? Better Browsing?
Also, whats with the whole docking situation? And anyone have more information on when this is gonna come out?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more of a real desktop experience. Official PC apps, more in depth productivity and not dumbed down versions for android. Real Office. Docking station is just for phones. We should be able to run it on the tablet itself. No data of release.
For more detailed info just check out the link in the op that takes you to Ubuntu website where they discuss the Ubuntu/Android experience. This will be a big deal.
Well it sounds like it can be, but you're really going out on a limb here dude...might want to pull it in some until this comes to fruition. Just sayin.
demandarin said:
Yes, plus you won't have to jump through hoops to get it to work. It'll be officially supported by Android n Ubuntu. No need to hack or dual boot or whatever. It'll launch like an app. Once in desktop mode, Ubuntu, then everything integrated. So you can even launch your android apps from within Ubuntu. Plus access to all the thousands of free full fledged Ubuntu PC apps. So this will be a more complete version than anything we've seen so far on prime. Plus it'll be alot more powerful. Linux/Ubuntu(Backtrack5) on prime doesn't have complete access to prime power, CPU/GPU, and resources. Everything with this new method will be seamlessly integrated into the android experience.
This might just be what android needed to get it over the hump. I can only see things getting better very fast from here on out. Apple has nothing to match or even come close to this experience we about to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be the new convergenceof tech. All that power packing on phone and tablet. Now you can unlease it.
Imagine you have a tablet, then dock with kb to have a netbook, then when you are at office, plug in for the full desktop experience.
This is where tablet can transform the pc.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
This would be amazing if we could run it on the tablet itself, almost sounds too good to be true. Wouldnt care for it as much if it needed to be docked to a computer monitor though. Hope he just did it because the screen size of the phone would make it impractical to run a desktop OS.
i can settle for this until Asus will integrate it!
Seems I'm fated to always play the role of the wet rag..
First, this will go nowhere. It's a proof-of-concept. See the dock? That means it must be a vendor (carrier) implemented solution, as each phone's form factor is different, and there can be no universal dock. This page is a pitch for carriers, not users.
When you get the carriers into the mix, then the question is, why the heck would they want an open-source OS on their product? That would create all sorts of havoc, and would reduce their control on the product. No carrier in its right mind would allow something like this to access their network, let alone officially support it.
Second, the value of the phone is its mobility, go-anywhere access. If dock+big screen are needed just to use Ubuntu, then its utility is marginalized. Ubuntu needs to be accessible and useful on the phone itself, which segues into the last point...
Third, looking at this, I'm disappointed, because it means that the Ubuntu UI still hasn't been adapted to a touch-based, small-screen form-factor. Everybody loves to hate Windows, but at least Microsoft is innovating for once with its Metro UI. Canonical needs to step up and do the same. Whatever it comes up with, Ubuntu needs to be a user-implementable solution, not a vendor (carrier)-based solution, else it will never see the light of day.
What are the chances we'll see the new Ubuntu for phones os running on our hardware anytime soon?
As far as I understand it it should be just a matter of compiling for our specific soc, making a flashable rom and then flashing, right? They say it can run on android kernels so there shouldn't have to be any hardware interface work that needs to be done, right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
If you don't mind me asking, how would this make any difference to us?
rangercaptain said:
If you don't mind me asking, how would this make any difference to us?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would enable us an alternative operating system choice, allowing application developers to create processor native applications (rather than using a java virtual machine that's quite resource intensive than running apps on the bare metal) thus using less system resources, enabling faster multitasking, greater compatibility with preexisting applications, enhanced security, and the desktop mode that they are touting is quite nice as well. connect an hdmi dongle and use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to turn the phone into a desktop computer... there are lots of uses for a bare metal operating system on a hardware platform with restrictive system resources.
there's really nothing wrong with android per se, she's a great OS, but there are a wide number of other approaches to building os's and user experiences. I would consider this pretty similar to choosing to install ubuntu on a PC, or windows on a mac for that matter. it's a matter of widening the variety of application approaches and compatibility. a matter of choice.
I really want to know if this is possible after seeing the demo of it on engadget this morning I'm convinced that this is one os I'd be willing to flash and possibly leave on over android, as amazing as Android is this just better though out in terms of where everything is and speed of access
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
It may take off, if someone is able to best the entire android community as a whole, but the odds of that are "0"...
We would be better served if google took it over, and incorporated the OS into a handful of smart phones. Beyond that prospect, a port for us would be nothing more than a pet project.
This idea is not new, and mention of it can be found in virtually ever forum on this site, and a few devs have met with success on getting a bootable Android device running Ubuntu, but it was a short lived event, as support for the OS is simply not there ATM.
I do agree that a different OS is a good idea, but as a dedicated Android user, I would not be willing to switch at this point, as a stable, functional OS is months or even years away.
Likely the OS would fall the way of RIM, and other OS platforms, albeit, ahead of it's time.....g
gregsarg said:
It may take off, if someone is able to best the entire android community as a whole, but the odds of that are "0"...
We would be better served if google took it over, and incorporated the OS into a handful of smart phones. Beyond that prospect, a port for us would be nothing more than a pet project.
This idea is not new, and mention of it can be found in virtually ever forum on this site, and a few devs have met with success on getting a bootable Android device running Ubuntu, but it was a short lived event, as support for the OS is simply not there ATM.
I do agree that a different OS is a good idea, but as a dedicated Android user, I would not be willing to switch at this point, as a stable, functional OS is months or even years away.
Likely the OS would fall the way of RIM, and other OS platforms, albeit, ahead of it's time.....g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I strongly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, the fact of the matter is that it's already running on the quintessential android test bed for the current generation of phones (the galaxy nexus) which means that it should be very easily ported to other, similar hardware (which is most of the android devices out there right now.). if they made this completely open source (which i'm pretty sure they'd have to given that most of the components of the OS are built on open-source licenses), and allowed the already very good and very diverse linux community expand it's functionality, write good apps for it, I think it has some pretty great promise.
my personal standpoint however, is that operating systems for mobile should work exactly like they do for PC's (and macs for that matter). you should be able to install whatever, whenever, without the approval of the company that happens to make the hardware, and without the approval of the company who provides the data and telephone services for the device... it's a pocket computer, not a dumb phone designed for one thing.
I thought Android was Linux and Ubuntu was Linux. Why is one type better than the other? And to run native, wouldn't hardware manufacturers have to write a butt load of drivers? Like the fiasco of upgrading from win2000 to win7.
Ubuntu won't be released til 2014, will older phones like our note1 be supported?
Keep in mind that by 2014 the note1 would be considered old in mobile years.
rangercaptain said:
I thought Android was Linux and Ubuntu was Linux. Why is one type better than the other? And to run native, wouldn't hardware manufacturers have to write a butt load of drivers? Like the fiasco of upgrading from win2000 to win7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hardware drivers always run on the bare metal anyway (usually as part of the kernel, or occasionally as a background daemon service). the point is that android applications are built on top of the java environment which is a virtual machine - it's processes are abstracted and emulated which requires much more system resources than writing in something like c++ for the underlaying hardware. the only compatibility that this would break is that binaries don't work across cpu platforms. if something is compiled for the arm9 architecture for example (what most modern smartphones use, including our note), it wouldn't run on android for x86 or another java virtual machine like bluestacks. in order to get it to run on a different hardware platform you'd either have to emulate a complete device (like the iphone and android sdk simulators), or recompile it for the platform you want to run it on (only useful if you have the source code). the latter method is how linux distributions have been doing things for years. there are virtually identical linux distributions that can run on intel, arm, powerpc, sparc, motorola 68k, etc. etc. they can all run pretty much the same applications (because of the hardware abstraction layer present in the kernel), but in order for it to work, those applications must be recompiled for the appropriate underlaying processor architecture, as the output of a c(++,#) compiler is code that is cpu architecture specific.
also, windows 2000 and windows 7 were designed for the same (or similar) underlaying hardware problems. windows 2000 to windows 7 was mostly a piece of cake. whereas the move from windows 98 to windows 2000 or windows 98 to windows xp was difficult because windows 9x and windows 2000/xp use a different variety of hardware abstraction layer and thus different drivers must be written as drivers designed for one HAL won't work with another. (same thing for major linux revisions. the HAL in the 2.4 series of kernels is different from the one in 2.6 series of kernels which means one has to rewrite device drivers in order to get some less-than-standard hardware working.
So cp....
your a smart guy...
Get it going for us.....
you've got the skills we need to pull it off....g
gregsarg said:
So cp....
your a smart guy...
Get it going for us.....
you've got the skills we need to pull it off....g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, If i had access to the sources (that by all rights should be open thanks to the way the gpl is designed), I'd be happy to build a rom and help with the development efforts. I'm pretty decent at optimizing linux distributions for arm hardware. we should all petition canonical to release the code post haste.
I would love to see ubuntu ported over to phones. I almost fell off my chair when I heard of the idea that your phone could just connect to a monitor/keyboard/mouse to become a fully fledged desktop computer. This would literally replace almost all of my gadgets into one device. I wouldn't need a laptop, an ipod, a dvd player, or even a gaming console possibly as well.
I've been using ubuntu for a number of years and would be overjoyed to see almost all of my electronics and computing essentially made into one pocket sized device. The possibilities are so great for this kind of leap in technology and it almost seems to be the inevitable succession in personal computer technology. This could possibly be the beginning of the end for laptops, desktops, tablets, and netbooks/ultrabooks. All data would be transmitted using flash memory or transmitted OTA instead of spinning disks or other media.
If the source code is released, and I'm sure it will since Canonical has done a decent job of running Ubuntu lately, I hope someone brings it to the i717 because then I would probably sell a lot of electronic equipment
The release will never happen to allow a single, all inclusive device.
Ubuntu or not, there are too many hands in the pie, and billions of dollars on the table.
The apples, and Samsungs of the world will go at it until the day we die.
They all want the biggest piece, and will squash anyone that gets in their way.
Ubuntu would need a home run piece of code that emulates a magic carpet if they ever hope to slay the beast.
And if they did, I'm not so sure that people would embrace the one stop shop mentality for a single device anyway.
It simply stinks of yet another apple type monopoly in the making.
I support the idea, but it's the logistics that kill the deal, money driven logistics of course.....g
gregsarg said:
The release will never happen to allow a single, all inclusive device.
Ubuntu or not, there are too many hands in the pie, and billions of dollars on the table.
The apples, and Samsungs of the world will go at it until the day we die.
They all want the biggest piece, and will squash anyone that gets in their way.
Ubuntu would need a home run piece of code that emulates a magic carpet if they ever hope to slay the beast.
And if they did, I'm not so sure that people would embrace the one stop shop mentality for a single device anyway.
It simply stinks of yet another apple type monopoly in the making.
I support the idea, but it's the logistics that kill the deal, money driven logistics of course.....g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too true, it's all about the money in the end, even with free stuff.
Now that you mention it, it does sound a lot like some sort of Apple type ploy to get you to buy their things... either way I hope it happens someday
Finally Ubuntu for the tablets is here. That's Right!!! This Thursday for the nexus7 and 10. Here goes the official video http://youtu.be/h384z7Ph0gU
hit the thanks... been a while
Almost here ,.....
Sent from my HTC Droid Dna Venom Rom using Tapatalk 2
horatiob said:
Finally Ubuntu for the tablets is here. That's Right!!! This Thursday for the nexus7 and 10. Here goes the official video http://youtu.be/h384z7Ph0gU
hit the thanks... been a while
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
I think I'm going to wait a little bit, conceptually it seems great but I would initially like to "dual-boot" if that is in any way possible - does it actually install a grub like pre-loader where I could choose to boot to my SentinalROM instead? How about Google Play store integration, any news on that? The biggest hurdle for myself would be losing access to all my Play Store games/books.
Astriaal said:
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
I think I'm going to wait a little bit, conceptually it seems great but I would initially like to "dual-boot" if that is in any way possible - does it actually install a grub like pre-loader where I could choose to boot to my SentinalROM instead? How about Google Play store integration, any news on that? The biggest hurdle for myself would be losing access to all my Play Store games/books.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh absolutely. I plan on downloading it as soon as it goes live.
Sent from my GT-N7100
Astriaal said:
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep
Astriaal said:
Just the developer preview right now it looks like, I thought it was the full release for some reason. Anyone planning to jump in head first just for fun?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to give it a try on my Nexus 7.. That's my entertainment/screw around with my own builds tablet.. I'm really not privvy to testing "development previews" of an alternate OS on a $500 tablet.. I'll at minimum wait a bit to feel it out on the Nexus 7 first and hear back from those who did try it on the Nexus 10.
Can this be dual booted?
I already backed up my tablet's data on pc. Ready to install it on both nexus 7 and 10!
tawfiqmp said:
Can this be dual booted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't read detail on it yet, but I did see a note indicating that it can be set up with dual boot -- needs a custom recovery, but it appeared pretty straightforward when I glanced at the description. Dual boot would certainly make me more receptive to giving it a try.
I'm not much of a developer but I'm all over this. Been waiting for over a year for this.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Dual boot is mandatory for me to do this
SayWhat10 said:
Dual boot is mandatory for me to do this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. dual boot or no go!
if there is ubuntu for android where you have access to your android apps. Why cant we do that with our nexus 10?
I dont care for dualbooting if I can have access to android apps from within ubuntu.
horatiob said:
if there is ubuntu for android where you have access to your android apps. Why cant we do that with our nexus 10?
I dont care for dualbooting if I can have access to android apps from within ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know you do not have access to your android applications you simply have ubuntu.
Sent from a SGS3 GT-i9305
Loving this. You know they're turning this loose for the imaginative dev/hacker community to get great ideas for a full release on their own devices. It will benefit all in the long run. Google better embrace this as the future, I hope.
Sent from my LT28at using XDA Premium HD app
fredphoesh said:
As far as I know you do not have access to your android applications you simply have ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well that sounds like............it sucks. smh
i mean all these people happy to that ubuntu is about here, that they would give up all their android apps? really????????????????
Recon Freak said:
Loving this. You know they're turning this loose for the imaginative dev/hacker community to get great ideas for a full release on their own devices. It will benefit all in the long run. Google better embrace this as the future, I hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's great seeing this kind of development, but I'm not yet clear that it's something that would help Google or necessarily benefit the majority of the user community...at least not in the near term. Google's been working hard at gaining market acceptance for Android, and a significant component of this will likely be, increasingly, the availability of Android as an internally consistent ecosystem that spans phone and tablets. Ubuntu is pushing the same idea, i.e., a single ecosystem that encompasses phones, tablets and PC's -- and that's great. But unless there's interoperability between OS's, it may be a while before the consumer market is ready to embrace yet another mobile OS in a big way, as appealing as Ubuntu may be.
My Android phone (Galaxy Nexus) and tablets (N10 and N7) work so well together these days that I really wouldn't want to replace any of them with a device running an OS and aps that didn't "connect" with my other devices as well and seamlessly as they all work together now. I'm also not about to replace all 3 devices right away, and start fresh finding apps that mimic the functionality of the 100+ Android apps that I have installed.
Android and Ubuntu are both based on Linux at the lowest levels, so they can take advantage of common hardware drivers. But at the app level, they're based on different languages and runtime systems - so far. At the moment, Android apps can't run on Ubuntu in any kind of native mode and vice versa. While Google is working to gain broad acceptance of Android, what incentive would they have to throw another OS in the mix at this stage of the game?
jonstrong said:
Android and Ubuntu are both based on Linux at the lowest levels, so they can take advantage of common hardware drivers. But at the app level, they're based on different languages and runtime systems - so far. At the moment, Android apps can't run on Ubuntu in any kind of native mode and vice versa. While Google is working to gain broad acceptance of Android, what incentive would they have to throw another OS in the mix at this stage of the game?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I meant to quote and managed to thank you - While they are based on different levels I do recall hearing that there would be a dalvik vm built into ubuntu to allow for android applications to run inside the system as well - as long as you have the apk and such. Similar to BlueStacks for W8 and Windows desktop.
omac_ranger said:
Well I meant to quote and managed to thank you - While they are based on different levels I do recall hearing that there would be a dalvik vm built into ubuntu to allow for android applications to run inside the system as well - as long as you have the apk and such. Similar to BlueStacks for W8 and Windows desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the thanks, however inadvertent
As far as I've read, Canonical doesn't plan on creating a Dalvik JVM for Ubuntu any time soon. The statement from them suggested that they recognize that native compiled apps (the dev ecosystem on Ubuntu is primarily HTML5, QML, C++) will run faster and more efficiently than code running within a JVM -- this was part of the comment when asked if they were planning to incorporate a Dalvik emulator in Ubuntu. There's nothing to prevent someone from developing one, but making this work properly will also require cooperation between the Dalvik implementation and the security framework in Ubuntu -- certainly possible, but I'm guessing it could be a year before anything comprehensive along those lines is likely to make it to market.
There's also another question nagging at me: how will Google evolve Android over the next couple of years? With an increasing number of apps rolling out for Android, it's conceivable that multiple windows (such as Samsung already offers) may become a regular feature, apps will become increasingly powerful -- and the distinction, at least for many people and many applications -- between PC and Android device -- will become vanishingly small for many purposes. If that happens, my guess is that this would further reduce any incentive for Google to somehow tie Ubuntu in with Android.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, and this just be the kind of thinking that happens after a 12 hour day without enough coffee... I personally love the evolution of hardware and software, and look forward to seeing how this all pans out. Fun to speculate in the meantime.
jonstrong said:
Thanks for the thanks, however inadvertent
As far as I've read, Canonical doesn't plan on creating a Dalvik JVM for Ubuntu any time soon. The statement from them suggested that they recognize that native compiled apps (the dev ecosystem on Ubuntu is primarily HTML5, QML, C++) will run faster and more efficiently than code running within a JVM -- this was part of the comment when asked if they were planning to incorporate a Dalvik emulator in Ubuntu. There's nothing to prevent someone from developing one, but making this work properly will also require cooperation between the Dalvik implementation and the security framework in Ubuntu -- certainly possible, but I'm guessing it could be a year before anything comprehensive along those lines is likely to make it to market.
There's also another question nagging at me: how will Google evolve Android over the next couple of years? With an increasing number of apps rolling out for Android, it's conceivable that multiple windows (such as Samsung already offers) may become a regular feature, apps will become increasingly powerful -- and the distinction, at least for many people and many applications -- between PC and Android device -- will become vanishingly small for many purposes. If that happens, my guess is that this would further reduce any incentive for Google to somehow tie Ubuntu in with Android.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, and this just be the kind of thinking that happens after a 12 hour day without enough coffee... I personally love the evolution of hardware and software, and look forward to seeing how this all pans out. Fun to speculate in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does Ubuntu have to do anything with Google?
The developer preview is being made for Nexus devices but that's only because they are readily available and open to hacking.
I don't think Canonical realistically thinks Ubuntu will be the lead platform for Phones and Tablets but that's okay. They're currently trying to fill a niche with their tablet OS which is the enterprise market. This is one place where Android hasn't made a ton of inroads and it happens to be where Canonical makes their money(albeit still not profitable).