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Has the Viewsonic Gtablet development become a standstill?
Thoughts?
Opinions?
No.... I believe not.
Now everyone's holding their breath for HC.
Here somewhere is a post about latest development (sorry can't find it now).
HC is already booting on G-tab. Hopefully devs will get everything they need to get it going.
Keep my fingers crossed!!!!
You have a cyanogen tag in your sig and yet you ask that? They are releasing nightlies at least once a week. As far as Honeycomb goes it may be booting but its completely worthless to use.
I think I'll keep my thoughts and opinions to myself as anything negative about the wonderous GTab is not tolerated here
thebadfrog said:
You have a cyanogen tag in your sig and yet you ask that? They are releasing nightlies at least once a week. As far as Honeycomb goes it may be booting but its completely worthless to use.
I think I'll keep my thoughts and opinions to myself as anything negative about the wonderous GTab is not tolerated here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO, you can always talk about the "horrible viewing angle" everybody CAN agree on!
Kenfly, there is actual progress reported that I believe involves a dump of an ASUS Honeycomb box that has been ported to the Adam and there is a picture of it on a G-tab. I just read about actual WPA2 support too.
Here is the thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1065220
The good news is, Roebeet has taken an interest too, so there are some VERY clever guys working on this!
Yes there is but it is completely unuseable at this point.
I was told the viewing angles are not horrible and to expressing my opinion of that as well
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1064775
Follow that thread. Oozura is doing a great job keeping everyone up to date with cm nightlies and releases with bugs and bug fixes. They are making huge progress on major issues right now. It means at some point Gojimi will update VeganGinger as well.
If you follow that thread keep mashing that thanks button for him so people know there is interest and he keeps posting
I see it slowing down as more turn towards the newer tablets on the market. Updates wont be as frequent...
If you have it setup good now then you'll be ok. Its not like the internet, video or audio will stop working because of this.
kenfly said:
Has the Viewsonic Gtablet development become a standstill?
Thoughts?
Opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No?
Looks like tons of action to me - pershoot and others have delivered stable overclocked/undervolted kernels in the past week, and the CM7 team has cranked out two stable and about 10 nightly revs in the past week, going from "yes, it sorta works" to functional camera and some hardware acceleration for video playback.
What projects are you working on?
there are more forums to search than the ones here (hint)
There's a lot going on, in early (VERY EARLY) stages.
While some might believe that the Gtab is worthless, I would argue that the hardware itself is not at all. The company that put their name on it, and their "support" might very well be as worthless as a batteries to the Amish.
There are experiments going on utilizing The Notion Ink Adam, and porting it's software to the G-tab. There's a rumor that they are getting an official GB update, and if portable to the G-tab, then we could essentially have an "official" GB Rom (including drivers from Nvidea), without VS needing to get their hands dirty. There are a few comparable (in hardware) tablets out there that are getting the support from their manufacturers that we would like to get from VS. If we can't get VS to update, then the next best thing is to borrow updates from other systems.
If it all works out, it will definitely not be a quick release. Lots of testing would be needed, since the code being worked on is not "made" for the G-tablet.
The reason that it seems like development has halted, or at best, slowed down, is because nothing new is coming from the allmighty VS. Nothing can be developed from the nothing that they are constantly providing. The only development that can be done is using existing Roms, and tweaking them. The bottom line, though, is that unless VS comes out with a GB Rom WITH hardware drivers, the current batch of custom Roms, Vegan-Tab, VeganGinger, CM7, TNT, etc. are dead in the water, and will never have hardware acceleration, since they are all based off of old code, that doesn't include it.
So, simple answer, there are developments that are ongoing, there are tweaks and fixes, possibly additions to some of the existing roms, but there will never be any development on new VS rom, until VS actually releases a new VS rom.
Only one person is building off VS firmware. Everyone else is using Google source and from the commits that Nvidia is making to git. VeganGinger and CM7 are under constant development and CM gets closer everyday to finalizing hardware acceleration. Vegan-Tab is froyo and based off vega firmware and has hardware acceleration as does TNTlite.
Depending on Notion Ink, the king of stretching the truth, for something is knuts
And yes there are some half ass non useful ports of Honeycomb posted on other sites. Nothing works. Its a honeycomb gui hacked into an old kernel
TJEvans said:
While some might believe that the Gtab is worthless, I would argue that the hardware itself is not at all. The company that put their name on it, and their "support" might very well be as worthless as a batteries to the Amish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great analogy. =)
TJEvans said:
There are experiments going on utilizing The Notion Ink Adam, and porting it's software to the G-tab. There's a rumor that they are getting an official GB update, and if portable to the G-tab, then we could essentially have an "official" GB Rom (including drivers from Nvidea), without VS needing to get their hands dirty. There are a few comparable (in hardware) tablets out there that are getting the support from their manufacturers that we would like to get from VS. If we can't get VS to update, then the next best thing is to borrow updates from other systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The NI software release, if they do in fact follow through with something for once, will be utilizing the exact same GB-compatible drivers that we already have. We already have "official" GB ROMs with the same level of HW accel that anything from NI would come out with. We already have those drivers from nVidia. =)
But you're right in implying that VS won't have to get their hands dirty. =)
TJEvans said:
Nothing can be developed from the nothing that they are constantly providing. The only development that can be done is using existing Roms, and tweaking them. The bottom line, though, is that unless VS comes out with a GB Rom WITH hardware drivers, the current batch of custom Roms, Vegan-Tab, VeganGinger, CM7, TNT, etc. are dead in the water, and will never have hardware acceleration, since they are all based off of old code, that doesn't include it.
So, simple answer, there are developments that are ongoing, there are tweaks and fixes, possibly additions to some of the existing roms, but there will never be any development on new VS rom, until VS actually releases a new VS rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually.... you're incorrect here. New development is being done completely independent of VS. It's called CyanogenMod-based and AOSP-based ROMs and they are completely different than those based on VS or NI-based ROMs which anything based on those are in fact MODs and tweaks. CM and AOSP ROMs are based on newer code and do include the foundation for hw acceleration.
So to summarize - development is not dead if you're not based on a locked bootloader and stock ROM from VS. If you're based on Google and nVidia then there is definitely development going on. It's all in what your base is.
We already have "official" GB ROMs with the same level of HW accel that anything from NI would come out with. We already have those drivers from nVidia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll have to excuse my ignorance on this issue, as all I've used so far is Vegan-Tab. I love it, it's stable, and I've not seen any inherent problems with it, so I figure, why change?
But, I thought that CM7 and VeganGinger had issues with video playback and 3d video acceleration, since Nvidea is "no longer going to support the Harmony Tegra 2 chipset." I don't know much about CM7, but from reading their website, and observing some of the experimental posts, it doesn't seem that they've been able to truly replicate the drivers that, I believe, Nvidea owes us. Nvidea said that they will provide support and updates if manufacturers requested it. As far as I know, Viewsonic only had one update since they made that statement, and it didn't include anything new from NVidea.
I had assumed that since this rumored NI GB update was official from the manufacturer, that they wouldn't have done it without getting official drivers from Nvidea.
I'm sorry, is there something I'm missing? I thought that it was a big deal that NVidea hasn't provided driver updates for true hardware acceleration, and that it can't be achieved without informaiton from them, and that they've decided ot no longer support...
it's a confusing world in the land of G-Tab.
TJEvans said:
You'll have to excuse my ignorance on this issue, as all I've used so far is Vegan-Tab. I love it, it's stable, and I've not seen any inherent problems with it, so I figure, why change?
But, I thought that CM7 and VeganGinger had issues with video playback and 3d video acceleration, since Nvidea is "no longer going to support the Harmony Tegra 2 chipset." I don't know much about CM7, but from reading their website, and observing some of the experimental posts, it doesn't seem that they've been able to truly replicate the drivers that, I believe, Nvidea owes us. Nvidea said that they will provide support and updates if manufacturers requested it. As far as I know, Viewsonic only had one update since they made that statement, and it didn't include anything new from NVidea.
I had assumed that since this rumored NI GB update was official from the manufacturer, that they wouldn't have done it without getting official drivers from Nvidea.
I'm sorry, is there something I'm missing? I thought that it was a big deal that NVidea hasn't provided driver updates for true hardware acceleration, and that it can't be achieved without informaiton from them, and that they've decided ot no longer support...
it's a confusing world in the land of G-Tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rumored NI GB update is just that - rumor just like all the other NI rumors. We'll see what happens.
As to nVidia - the 3991 update that was later pulled from VS contained updated GB-compatible libs that were from the Gingerbread Ventana system image from nVidia. Those libs were (and still are) in CM7 and AOSP and VEGAn-TAB. Hacks and mods have been inserted to make CM7 work with them and hw accel is functioning much better after pershoot's kernel overclocking.
thank you for the clarification
I recently bought the Note. I was an ios user and perfer it over android. I love the hardware of the Note but not the software. So I would like to know if there is a way to run iOS on the Note and when I say run I mean like if it was an iPhone 4s. Is there any one who can help me anything is much appreciated,
Thanks.
Really.......
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Buy an ipad
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk
RiiGGS said:
I recently bought the Note. I was an ios user and perfer it over android. I love the hardware of the Note but not the software. So I would like to know if there is a way to run iOS on the Note and when I say run I mean like if it was an iPhone 4s. Is there any one who can help me anything is much appreciated,
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thanked your post, not because it was in any way useful but absolutely hilarious!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that will most likely never happen. I'll trade my wife's iPhone 4 for your Note though, I'll even throw in a dead iPad!
Well, truth be told, there is not a solution yet.
BUT, if you wait a bit, a rom called MIUI will likely be developed.
Let me explain...
Cyanogen is a team that develops 'clean' Android roms for many devices. This means, no bloat and has ALL of the features that Android has to offer, enabled (with exception to features that would not be applicable because the phone simply does not have the hardware - for example, if your phone does not have NFC, Cyanogen wont support it for your device and they simply remove all of the code related to this). The result is, the most feature rich version of Android (and most up to date as they do keep up with Google's releases) with the least amount of crap. This keeps the phone lean and clean.
Now, since Cyanogen is open source, they make the source code available for other rom developers to modify what they have done to create different experiences. This allows developers to start with a feature rich rom and develop on top of that to add their own 'flavor' to their work.
One such 'flavor' is MIUI which strives to make your Android device as Iphone like as possible. While it isnt perfectly matched to the Iphone, its moderately close.
Dont get me wrong, I for the life of me am baffled as to why someone would want their Android phone to look like an Iphone but that is what MIUI is there for.
(BTW, if I am wrong about MIUI, feel free to mention it, based on everything I have read about it however, the impression I got was to theme an Android OS to look like IOS).
However, we have a long way before this happens. Rom developers have barely figured out how to do anything with this phone.
To my knowledge, there is only 1 custom rom (Saurom) and it isnt really all that custom from what I can see. All it seems to have is enhancements from the stock rom (overclocking, cwm, att bloat removed?) but in essence is just a more efficient streamlined stock rom.
There is also only one custom kernel that I can see that again, is the same as the stock kernel but allows for overclocking (and I think I read that the davlik cache size was increased).
Once Samsung releases the source code for the Note, we will start seeing alot more rom development, at which time Cyanogen will jump on board and start making roms (using the source that Samsung releases for things like drivers) and once Cyanogen has a relatively stable rom, MIUI will likely take the Cyanogen source and tweak it.
Very convoluted I know but probably wont be seeing anything earth shattering until the source code is released from Samsung.
littlewierdo said:
Well, truth be told, there is not a solution yet.
BUT, if you wait a bit, a rom called MIUI will likely be developed.
Let me explain...
Cyanogen is a team that develops 'clean' Android roms for many devices. This means, no bloat and has ALL of the features that Android has to offer, enabled (with exception to features that would not be applicable because the phone simply does not have the hardware - for example, if your phone does not have NFC, Cyanogen wont support it for your device and they simply remove all of the code related to this). The result is, the most feature rich version of Android (and most up to date as they do keep up with Google's releases) with the least amount of crap. This keeps the phone lean and clean.
Now, since Cyanogen is open source, they make the source code available for other rom developers to modify what they have done to create different experiences. This allows developers to start with a feature rich rom and develop on top of that to add their own 'flavor' to their work.
One such 'flavor' is MIUI which strives to make your Android device as Iphone like as possible. While it isnt perfectly matched to the Iphone, its moderately close.
Dont get me wrong, I for the life of me am baffled as to why someone would want their Android phone to look like an Iphone but that is what MIUI is there for.
(BTW, if I am wrong about MIUI, feel free to mention it, based on everything I have read about it however, the impression I got was to theme an Android OS to look like IOS).
However, we have a long way before this happens. Rom developers have barely figured out how to do anything with this phone.
To my knowledge, there is only 1 custom rom (Saurom) and it isnt really all that custom from what I can see. All it seems to have is enhancements from the stock rom (overclocking, cwm, att bloat removed?) but in essence is just a more efficient streamlined stock rom.
There is also only one custom kernel that I can see that again, is the same as the stock kernel but allows for overclocking (and I think I read that the davlik cache size was increased).
Once Samsung releases the source code for the Note, we will start seeing alot more rom development, at which time Cyanogen will jump on board and start making roms (using the source that Samsung releases for things like drivers) and once Cyanogen has a relatively stable rom, MIUI will likely take the Cyanogen source and tweak it.
Very convoluted I know but probably wont be seeing anything earth shattering until the source code is released from Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic but, didn't samsung already already release the source code right before the release of the phone itself?
bonefan03 said:
Off topic but, didn't samsung already already release the source code right before the release of the phone itself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Afaik they released the kernel source but that's it. I could be mistaken
Sent from A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER! In my beloved velvet leisure suit...
Really you come on an android forum and talk about how you like apple better?
What did you think would happen?
If you want a fruitphone go get in your VW Jetta and get one. Don't ruin a real phone by putting ios on it.
Sent from the only smartphone designed by Chuck Norris
iOS On Note
What I was really hoping for was to be able to keep my Notes Hardware while having full iOS software so I could Facetime or use itunes,appstore,gamecenter,and so forth.
RiiGGS said:
What I was really hoping for was to be able to keep my Notes Hardware while having full iOS software so I could Facetime or use itunes,appstore,gamecenter,and so forth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=search&searchValue=SGH-I717
Is this the sources you were speaking of. If so i am still trying to figure out if this is the full source or just kernel
RiiGGS said:
I recently bought the Note. I was an ios user and perfer it over android. I love the hardware of the Note but not the software. So I would like to know if there is a way to run iOS on the Note and when I say run I mean like if it was an iPhone 4s. Is there any one who can help me anything is much appreciated,
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me....I just threw up in my throat a little bit.
And for the love of god. Let the flaming begin, i think this is by far my favorite thread in all of xda. Im completly amused by this and will read the complete flaming of vast stupidity for days to come.
lol well on the bright side, at least his question was posted in the correct forum section.
themisfit said:
https://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=search&searchValue=SGH-I717
Is this the sources you were speaking of. If so i am still trying to figure out if this is the full source or just kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are kernel sources only not full OS source.
themisfit said:
And for the love of god. Let the flaming begin, i think this is by far my favorite thread in all of xda. Im completly amused by this and will read the complete flaming of vast stupidity for days to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to flame really. We were all new here at some point. A simple no it won't happen will suffice
Sent from A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER! In my beloved velvet leisure suit...
themisfit said:
And for the love of god. Let the flaming begin, i think this is by far my favorite thread in all of xda. Im completly amused by this and will read the complete flaming of vast stupidity for days to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the flaming won't begin, the thread will end. Here.
Hi all,
I am noob at XDA. (About myself: I am a software engineer aged 30. I have been hacking computers since I was 10.)
I am here because I am planning to buy a new Android device soon. (And unless something really revolutionary happens, I don't plan to upgrade it in the next 2 years or so, so it's a long-term decision.)
My short-list is:
- HTC One S
- Sony Xperia S
or, if everything else fails:
- Samsung Galaxy Nexus
The hardware of the One S and the Xperia S is obviously more powerful than the Galaxy Nexus; my only concern is the software side of things.
The thing is, I really don't like the customization the hardware vendors do with the software, so I want to run raw vanilla AOSP, or something very close to it.
(CM definitely qualifies.)
Also, I am sick of waiting for ages for new android versions to be ported to my device.
Obviously, Galaxy Nexus is guaranteed to be get Android upgrades first, so that's a safe choice in this respect, but since I like the hardware of Xperia S (and One S) so much, I would like to gain a better understanding the software situation of them, so I can make an informed decision about my purchase.
I am aware of the fact that Sony is actively supporting the Free Xperia Team, which is bringing CM9 to Nozomi (among other devices), but I have no information about the details of the project, or it's limitations.
So, my questions are the following:
1. What is the exact nature of the support Sony is providing to the FXP team? (HW? HW docs? Binary drivers? Driver source? Consultation?) Has this changed in any way, now that Sony Ericsson has become Sony? Was this a one-time action, or have they made any commitment about the future?
2. What does one need to build a vanilla android ROM for the S, using the AOSP sources? (Let's forget Cyanogenmod for now.) What is the status of the required device drivers?
3. What are the current obstacles, hindering the release of CM9 (or any other derivative of AOSP) for this device? As far as I know, Nozomi was released in 2012.02, ~4 months ago. ICS was released in 2011.10, ~8 months ago. Official ICS (Sony's version, with Timescape) is rolling out about now; CM9 is not yet released. I wonder what is taking so long?
(Please understand that I really, literally wonder: I am not demanding anything, and I am not trying to offend or accuse anyone; I am totally aware that I don't understand the process; I would like to have more information to understand what needs to be done. And since I am software engineer, and I am not afraid of getting my hand dirty, so eventually, I might end up helping with it...)
4. Do we have any information about Sony's plan for this device beyond ICS? Jelly Bean is coming up soon. Regardless of Sony's decision, when JB is released, I would like to run it on my device, as soon as possible. What are our prospects for porting JB to Nozomi? Is Sony going to help with porting the device drivers to the new kernel, is something like that would come up?
* * *
Thank you for explaining this:
Csillag
1) No one knows for sure, but I'm pretty sure that it's not game changing, judging by the progress me and Doomlord made on AOKP without any help from Sony (obviously).
2) You can try building Gingerbread, but no one cares, right? For ICS, see the next answer.
3) The most important problem is that we don't have the drivers/kernel sources, and there's not much motivation for building it from scratch considering the soon(ish) ICS release. There are leaks with files for so called 'brown' or developer devices, but they also don't give much because of different low-level software. So the state of things is that almost everything but wireless is working, but wireless doesn't work at all. That means data, calls and WiFi.
4) JellyBean will likely be a minor upgrade (4.1 that is) and there's nothing stopping Sony from releasing anything on the 4.x branch. When 5.0 comes, it will depend on the hardware requirements but I'd guess we're getting it too.
K900 said:
1) No one knows for sure,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is that possible?
The FXP guys (bin4ry, jerpelea, etc) are here on these forums...
... did they have to swear secrecy, even about the circumstances?
but I'm pretty sure that it's not game changing, judging by the progress me and Doomlord made on AOKP without any help from Sony (obviously).
2) You can try building Gingerbread, but no one cares, right? For ICS, see the next answer.
3) The most important problem is that we don't have the drivers/kernel sources,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean we don't have the kernel sources for ICS, right? Because for GB, we do have something, in this thread... I guess I should ask this in the relevant thread, but has anybody determined the exact differences between this source and the stock ( 2.6.35 ? ) kernel this is based on? How many non-standard drivers are there? Do they come from Sony directly, or do they come from 3rd parties? I will need to look into this...
and there's not much motivation for building it from scratch considering the soon(ish) ICS release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And according to past experience, how long does it take Sony to release the kernel for ICS, after the imminent official ICS release?
There are leaks with files for so called 'brown' or developer devices, but they also don't give much because of different low-level software. So the state of things is that almost everything but wireless is working, but wireless doesn't work at all. That means data, calls and WiFi.
4) JellyBean will likely be a minor upgrade (4.1 that is) and there's nothing stopping Sony from releasing anything on the 4.x branch. When 5.0 comes, it will depend on the hardware requirements but I'd guess we're getting it too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, that part sound good.
* * *
Thank you for explaining:
Csillag
csillag said:
How is that possible?
The FXP guys (bin4ry, jerpelea, etc) are here on these forums...
... did they have to swear secrecy, even about the circumstances?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen them tell anyone, and I've never seen them do anything that's not available for everyone else (thankfully).
csillag said:
You mean we don't have the kernel sources for ICS, right? Because for GB, we do have something, in this thread... I guess I should ask this in the relevant thread, but has anybody determined the exact differences between this source and the stock ( 2.6.35 ? ) kernel this is based on? How many non-standard drivers are there? Do they come from Sony directly, or do they come from 3rd parties? I will need to look into this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are kernel sources for GB, the same ones from which the stock kernel was built. If you mean the upstream Linux kernel, it'll be a huge diff that's not so easy to port without datasheets (which we don't have) and actual understanding of how the hardware works. Speaking of drivers, I'm pretty sure you misunderstand the way Linux / Android 'drivers' work. Kernel-space drivers (modules) and userspace drivers (libraries and daemons) are two different things. They have to open source their kernels because Linus's tree ('official' Linux) is GPL, but the userspace parts are proprietary. ICS also brought many ABI changes, so just taking old libs and placing them in a new ROM often doesn't suffice.
csillag said:
And according to past experience, how long does it take Sony to release the kernel for ICS, after the imminent official ICS release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It takes time, can't say how long really, but it shouldn't take too long because they know we want those sources.
K900 said:
I haven't seen them tell anyone, and I've never seen them do anything that's not available for everyone else (thankfully).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen them being explicitly asked about this?
(Because not saying anything because not being asked is completely different that refusing to reveal this info....)
There are kernel sources for GB, the same ones from which the stock kernel was built. If you mean the upstream Linux kernel,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that was what I have meant when I wrote "stock". Now I see that it was ambiguous wording...
it'll be a huge diff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's sad.
I was hoping for finding only some added drivers, plus some small configuration changes elsewhere.
that's not so easy to port without datasheets
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
obviously
(which we don't have)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't have it, but the "official" FreeXperia team might, or they might be able to ask for it. This is exactly the kind of information I am trying to find about their collaboration with Sony...
and actual understanding of how the hardware works. Speaking of drivers, I'm pretty sure you misunderstand the way Linux / Android 'drivers' work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, actually I get that part. (I am exclusively using Linux for about 13 years now, and I have also done some kernel hacks earlier.) But maybe my wording was ambiguous again...
Kernel-space drivers (modules) and userspace drivers (libraries and daemons) are two different things. They have to open source their kernels because Linus's tree ('official' Linux) is GPL,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that does not stop some vendors (like NVidia) to ship binary kernel modules, so I would not be too surprised to find even binary kernel modules bundled with the code. But if they are open source, that that's great.
but the userspace parts are proprietary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not know the devices require userspace parts. I was assuming that the kernel modules implement standard linux device interfaces; for example cameras are simply accessible via v4l[2], the modem is a character device, etc...
...so you say this is not the situation, and besides the kernel modules, they require custom user-space parts for operation, right?
ICS also brought many ABI changes, so just taking old libs and placing them in a new ROM often doesn't suffice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that part is clean.
It takes time, can't say how long really, but it shouldn't take too long because they know we want those sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you say that it's a totally possible situation that we need to wait for several further months until we can get access to the kernel sources, and build proper CM9, right?
Unfortunately, this is exactly what I would like to avoid.
Maybe I should just stick to Galaxy Nexus, in spite of the older hardware...
Thank you for explaining:
Csillag
csillag said:
Have you seen them being explicitly asked about this?
(Because not saying anything because not being asked is completely different that refusing to reveal this info....)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They tend to ignore such questions. PM me if you want my personal opinion, I'll try to stick to the facts here.
csillag said:
Yes, that was what I have meant when I wrote "stock". Now I see that it was ambiguous wording...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nevermind.
csillag said:
That's sad.
I was hoping for finding only some added drivers, plus some small configuration changes elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They add some stuff, but they also change stuff internally. Tweaks and patches and many different things to get the best performance on this specific board. CAF has a generic msm-3.0 kernel, but that's not as customized. And we're not really waiting for the kernelspace here.
csillag said:
We don't have it, but the "official" FreeXperia team might, or they might be able to ask for it. This is exactly the kind of information I am trying to find about their collaboration with Sony...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such things are very, very strongly NDA protected. That's Qualcomm's secret sauce, and it wouldn't be secret any more if they gave datasheets to the community.
csillag said:
No, actually I get that part. (I am exclusively using Linux for about 13 years now, and I have also done some kernel hacks earlier.) But maybe my wording was ambiguous again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nevermind
csillag said:
Well, that does not stop some vendors (like NVidia) to ship binary kernel modules, so I would not be too surprised to find even binary kernel modules bundled with the code. But if they are open source, that that's great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually what NVIDIA does is ship a GPL'ed kernel module whose only function is to set up an interface through which the userspace (libGL) can talk to the hardware. So their kernel module is open source, but all the magic happens in the proprietary userspace.
csillag said:
I did not know the devices require userspace parts. I was assuming that the kernel modules implement standard linux device interfaces; for example cameras are simply accessible via v4l[2], the modem is a character device, etc...
...so you say this is not the situation, and besides the kernel modules, they require custom user-space parts for operation, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android has a HAL of its own, so mostly it's about HAL modules, libGL and libril (Radio Interface Layer) to talk to the modem. And here is where many hardware vendors pull an NVIDIA.
csillag said:
So, you say that it's a totally possible situation that we need to wait for several further months until we can get access to the kernel sources, and build proper CM9, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the kernel isn't that much of a problem. If we have to wait for too long, we'll just take CodeAurora msm-3.0 and port it which shouldn't be too hard cause it's as generic as possible.
csillag said:
Maybe I should just stick to Galaxy Nexus, in spite of the older hardware...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want AOSP now, you should go with the GNex. But the XPS is a nice phone, and the prospects with AOSP are good. Also would be nice to have someone more experienced with Linux (I'm just a student here) on the team/forums. If you get the XPS, PM me or Doomlord and I hope you'll help get AOKP running
Hello All,
As you all know I've been part of Xda and assiting in a positive resolution from HTC in requests from Bootloaders to source codes. Well seeing we have a great device that seemed to be given EOL to early in its game.. in my opinion due to lack of marketing skills. Well I will be posting in HTC FB to get our voice out to them for the Source Code release for our device.
Please comment "Like" and comment to request this so we can continue development for the Flyer.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213297764443&set=o.165420456859572&type=1&ref=nf
And Here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213304969443&set=o.101063233083&type=1&relevant_count=1
Um, source code of what? They release sources of Honeycomb, and there are no sources of ICS or Jelly Bean, so what's the whole point?
Source code for drivers which can be ported to ICS and JB. Anyway it helps coders make their own drivers for Camera/Front camera and for video
kayoma said:
Source code for drivers which can be ported to ICS and JB. Anyway it helps coders make their own drivers for Camera/Front camera and for video
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then we would need not just the drivers, but the whole 3.x kernel. I believe it's much harder to adapt ICS/JB drivers to GB/HC kernels
kayoma said:
Source code for drivers which can be ported to ICS and JB. Anyway it helps coders make their own drivers for Camera/Front camera and for video
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then we're asking the wrong ppl, it's not HTC. to understand this first you need to understand what makes up a ROM.
There is the kernel which is low level device specific, the kernel is mostly based on open source linux code, htc adds some board and device specific configuration on top of that.
Then there is the aosp which is also open source, an operating system provided by google that makes up most part of any ROM.
Then you have your aosp derivative like CM or AOKP, which provides board specific fixes and some customization. HTC's ROM is also based on aosp, but they add their own sense look and feel to it.
And finally and most importantly you have your close source proprietary drivers provided by chip manufactures like Qualcomm and TI. They control cameras, wifi, BT...etc. So in reality there is very little HTC could do as they don't have the rights to release these code. And that's is where most ppl run into issues.
So to create a ROM is not hard at all, anybody can download the source code and compile it to generate a ROM as most of the source code are all open source. What will be helpful is if Qualcomm releases the source code for their drivers, which I doubt they will ever do, otherwise they wouldn't be close source in the first place. The only thing we could do is try to reverse engineer the device base on logs and understanding of how each component should work and make educated guesses.
Due to HTC lack of effort on this device (No ICS - HC was slow joke) I will never buy another HTC product again, same goes for sony, though they did eventually update xperia x10i it was only due to huge pressure not because they wanted to.
I want to buy an electronic product that potentially remains relevant at least a year later otherwise forget it.
so i sent this letter to HTC
after reading this page where HTC discusses 4.1 upgrades i decided to drop them a line "
DIRECTLY FROM YOUR WEBSITE:
When will additional devices receive Android 4.1?
In addition to the HTC One X and HTC One S, we are actively reviewing our product portfolio to identify candidates to receive Jelly Bean. Our goal is to prioritize review for devices launched in 2012 with our numerous carrier partners across multiple regions and then consider our ability to provide updates to products from 2011.
What devices will not get Android 4.1?
We work hard to ensure each of our products has the optimal user experience and therefore some products will remain at their current version of Android. In general, devices with 512MB RAM or less will not be upgraded to Android 4.1. At present, these devices include the HTC One V and the HTC Desire C. As we identify other devices that will not be upgraded, we'll provide updated information.
What about a development version of Android 4.1?
For our developer community, we plan to make generic development ROMs of Jelly Bean available for both the HTC One X and HTC One S. As soon as the ROMs are ready, they will be posted to our HTCdev site (www.htcdev.com). We strongly recommend customers take the time to understand the limitations of the development software along with the terms and conditions on the site before downloading to their device.
REALLY!? have you listened to what your customers have asked/said about the HTC flyer at all?! where is OUR 4.1 DEVELOPMENT ROM! wtf! where are you for us!? I can tell you where... you are giving us 3.2 HC that takes away two very important features i bought the device for #1 GPS! completely broken by your newest update to HC. #2. Hardware Keys.... WHY?! i understand that HC introduced soft keys. so you say you "We work hard to ensure each of our products has the optimal user experience" BULL! you clearly weren't thinking about the end user when you pushed out that HC update for the flyer. Would have been smarter for you to leave us on working GB and go straight to ICS or JB when it was ready! this is lunacy! who ever is making decisions in your company needs fired. you are bleeding money from everywhere. why don't you bring it back to the old school HTC that CARED! ABOUT! IT'S CUSTOMERS! listen to what we are saying! hear our voice! we have signed petitions. we have pleaded on multiple forums. WE have poured over your FB and twitter pages asking for you to throw us a freaking bone here.... when is it gonna happen? ever?!
I still have my flyer and i love it dearly. but without updates it's falling behind the pack. I recently bought a 10.1 galaxy note. while i'm happy with it's speed and what not. it's not the form factor i want. which is what the flyer is for me. perfect. PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP ON US OR THIS DEVICE! PLEASE RELEASE A DEVELOPER ROM FOR OUR FLYER! "
this was their reply (you will want to read it for sure)
Dear Matt,
Thanks for contacting HTC!
We completely understand your concern and I thank you for your patience and am deeply sorry if this issue has caused you any dissatisfaction with HTC or its phones. I hope that it will not detract from your overall perspective of the device or the company. You are the most important part of the HTC Family.
We listen to our community and feedbacks like yours are the ones that make us revise our decisions, and try to find the correct balance between the device’s performance and usability. We cannot announce or say anything about the Flyer right now but what I can tell you is that we are, indeed, paying attention to the community´s feedback and opinions.
Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us through http://www.htc.com/us/support/email-support or call us at +1-866-449-8358 from 6AM to 1AM EST, 7 days a week.
Have a great day!
Let me know if I have successfully answered your question, please click here to complete this.
To send a reply to this message, please click here.
Sincerely,
Carlos
HTC
I appreciate the passion here, but HTC left this device for dead along with the Jetstream and View shortly after releasing it. We received what would amounted to a Beta of Honeycomb then they closed up shop. You live and learn, and although I still use my Flyer and enjoy it I will not buy another HTC device
I completely agree with you .. HTC should give us ICS or JB for our Flyer as a good faith. We must keep GB because honeycomb is a joke..
I use my Flyer and i try as much as possible with the optimized news on GB .. and share with you.
Hoping for a good action on their part for JB!!
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
Then we would need not just the drivers, but the whole 3.x kernel. I believe it's much harder to adapt ICS/JB drivers to GB/HC kernels
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so the kernel source for HC 3.2 that's in HTCDev,,that is NOT the entire kernel sourcecode?
i know it's an old thread but i am wondering...
gersto said:
so the kernel source for HC 3.2 that's in HTCDev,,that is NOT the entire kernel sourcecode?
i know it's an old thread but i am wondering...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that the honeycomb kernel .
doesn't do you much good for ICS or JB
yncconsulting said:
Then we're asking the wrong ppl, it's not HTC. to understand this first you need to understand what makes up a ROM.
.
.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didn't understand I think. The drivers are part of the kernel. May they be compiled into the kernel itself or in form of modules. Drivers can be binary objects to be linked (already compiled) or source code which will be compiled when the kernel is built.
If you have the drivers source code there is a fairly good chance to get them running in newer kernels with some minor changes.
So from my point of view you will have a good chance to even get 4.2 up and running as long as you have the drivers source code.
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
ktp1976 said:
You didn't understand I think. The drivers are part of the kernel. May they be compiled into the kernel itself or in form of modules. Drivers can be binary objects to be linked (already compiled) or source code which will be compiled when the kernel is built.
If you have the drivers source code there is a fairly good chance to get them running in newer kernels with some minor changes.
So from my point of view you will have a good chance to even get 4.2 up and running as long as you have the drivers source code.
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, so my point is HTC publishes kernel source code, not drivers, they don't even own some of the drivers .,so you will never get that. You get a HC kernel ,that works with a HC blob set and you cannot build a working 4.xx kernel because you don;t have a 4.xxx blob set and HTC won't give you one because they have never written one and never will
DigitalMD said:
that the honeycomb kernel .
doesn't do you much good for ICS or JB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well they must be of some good since we have ICS/JB ROMs out there that are "mostly" complete, slick and usable, although slightly buggy, so obviously yeah i get that it doesn't solve all the issues we have, since some drivers are missing: as evident by the non-working FC, no hardware decoding for video, and semi-working BT
DigitalMD said:
yeah, so my point is HTC publishes kernel source code, not drivers, they don't even own some of the drivers .,so you will never get that. You get a HC kernel ,that works with a HC blob set and you cannot build a working 4.xx kernel because you don;t have a 4.xxx blob set and HTC won't give you one because they have never written one and never will
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly. The kernel is also part of AOSP. And even if HTC does not supply the driver sources there is a slight chance to use old driver binaries or to have them reverse engineered by some genius dev. Hope is the last to die
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
ktp1976 said:
Not exactly. The kernel is also part of AOSP. And even if HTC does not supply the driver sources there is a slight chance to use old driver binaries or to have them reverse engineered by some genius dev. Hope is the last to die
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep dreaming. Some of the best around have tried that path.
No the device kernel is not in AOSP, the base linux (ANdorid) kernel source resides there, but if you look at the build, it calls in device , vendor, OS verson and board specific components to make a complete build. All that hooks into the blobs (drivers and libs) to make up the device specific environment that allows Android version X.XX to run
DigitalMD said:
Keep dreaming. Some of the best around have tried that path.
No the device kernel is not in AOSP, the base linux (ANdorid) kernel source resides there, but if you look at the build, it calls in device , vendor, OS verson and board specific components to make a complete build. All that hooks into the blobs (drivers and libs) to make up the device specific environment that allows Android version X.XX to run
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for clarification. So I was not wrong about the drivers, which are the device and vendor specific components. In other words if you can get the vendor to release their sources or make their chip/board manufacturers to release their sources is the only way to go. Seems a bit unrealistic though but who knows...
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
All should email the HTCDev
Use this link http://www.htcdev.com/contact
They themselves posted on that link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213304969443&set=o.101063233083&type=1&relevant_count=1
Takes just f**kin 5 seconds
May be they will listen some day
freworld said:
All should email the HTCDev
Use this link http://www.htcdev.com/contact
They themselves posted on that link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213304969443&set=o.101063233083&type=1&relevant_count=1
Takes just f**kin 5 seconds
May be they will listen some day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I got the nexus 9 when it first came out since I needed a tablet for school readings as etexts are so cheap. I was wondering since why there has been so little development for it? Its an AOSP device yet there are no cyanogen nightlies (no official ones at least). No franco kernel. TWRP doesn't even support a layout for the screen ratio. Is clockwork mod even supporting it?
There's almost no one working with it? Is there a reason for that? Does the 64 bit or nvidia soc discourage people or whats the deal? I know no one owes me anything, I am just curious why so few are interested on developing for it seeing as its a nexus.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-9/general/community-t2961063
Some interesting reading in there
aeppacher said:
I got the nexus 9 when it first came out since I needed a tablet for school readings as etexts are so cheap. I was wondering since why there has been so little development for it? Its an AOSP device yet there are no cyanogen nightlies (no official ones at least). No franco kernel. TWRP doesn't even support a layout for the screen ratio. Is clockwork mod even supporting it?
There's almost no one working with it? Is there a reason for that? Does the 64 bit or nvidia soc discourage people or whats the deal? I know no one owes me anything, I am just curious why so few are interested on developing for it seeing as its a nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@franciscofranco owns the Nexus 9, but he's said repeatedly that he won't be building a kernel for it, might be because he only had limited success with optimizing the Tegra 3 kernel for the Nexus 7 (2012).
TWRP not supporting the layout is just because there aren't enough 2048x1536 devices out there to justify maintaining a layout for.
The Nexus 9 is a trail-blazing device... one of the first ARM64 devices and the first one with a 64-bit OS, major under-the-hood changes (SELinux, etc) in Lollipop. Developers are probably still getting the hang of all these major changes. That and tablets just aren't as popular with developers compared to phones.
AICP is official ?
The reason cm isn't official is because there is a cherry that needs to be picked before build (as of now).
How dare you say lack of development support!!
OK OK JK did not mean to be harsh
I say its having good support
Alot better support than the T Mobile note 3
And nexus 7 2012
Also remember the butterfly effect / and telephone
If one says it does not have that good development
Then that one says it has bad development
Then another hears it and spreads the word
Then a dev hears all the news about good/bad
Then he says I better not take a chance
Then others ask the dev = butterfly effect / and telephone
Its like a self fulfilling prophecy
aeppacher said:
I got the nexus 9 when it first came out since I needed a tablet for school readings as etexts are so cheap. I was wondering since why there has been so little development for it? Its an AOSP device yet there are no cyanogen nightlies (no official ones at least).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a device that promises actual productive use, why would you want something that will make it slow, unreliable, and power hungry?
No franco kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody is stopping you from building your own kernel for it. Not like it is hard to do. What changes would you make to it?
TWRP doesn't even support a layout for the screen ratio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that make it non-functional? I've said to other people for years for other devices... that if you are spending so much time in recovery that it matters how *pretty* it is, then you're doing something seriously wrong.
Is clockwork mod even supporting it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Define "support"....
If the question is... "IS there a CWM recovery for Nexus 9?", then the answer is YES. A quick search on your favorite search engine will yield a CWM recovery in seconds. Its up to you to use it.
There's almost no one working with it? Is there a reason for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe because nobody perceives a need for it to be worked ON. That tends to happen when devices are actually done right.
Does the 64 bit or nvidia soc discourage people or whats the deal? I know no one owes me anything, I am just curious why so few are interested on developing for it seeing as its a nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardly. You just need to know where to look for things that are *TRULY* exciting.
Example:
http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/12/28/ubuntu-nexus-9-tablet/
I know I can work on a kernel. I have done so in the past. I was simply wondering why people aren't working on it since its a nexus device. I would also hardly say lack of interest is because its done so well. Every other nexus has oodles of support and I wouldn't call them all poor devices in dire need of improvement. I have had plenty of phones and devices and none have heated as quickly as my nexus 9 when I browse chrome for instance.
Also I wouldn't really say cyanogenmod automatically makes something slow and power hungry. Been running nightly cm12s on my oneplus one and the battery is great and have had 0 reboots so far.
doitright said:
Maybe because nobody perceives a need for it to be worked ON. That tends to happen when devices are actually done right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? This is what you think of development. The quality of the device isn't the question here. This is a nexus forum on XDA. People are hungry for roms, kernels and mods and the devs love making them to make an already great device better. He doesn't need your hostility for asking what hundreds of people are thinking.