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I'm going to return my tablet to Amazon and wait for something better. I have been using the 10.1 non stop for the past two weeks and it is awesome. The few problems it has are with HC and not the hardware. However, I feel the processing power needs to be a bit higher for 1280x720 resolution and we need more video codecs. Nvidia say they won't make the same mistake with the upcoming quadcore, and since it's only 2 months away, the wait feels justified to me.
Don't get me wrong, this tablet owns all other HC tablets at the moment. I just would be very pissed off if the new tablets like the Amazon Hollywood appeared this Christmas and completely destroyed the performance of my 10.1 along with playing nearly any video I copy onto it.
I urge anyone still within their return period to consider sending it back. It would be one thing if the new tablets were 5 or 6 months out, but 2 months is too close.
ericc191 said:
I'm going to return my tablet to Amazon and wait for something better. I have been using the 10.1 non stop for the past two weeks and it is awesome. The few problems it has are with HC and not the hardware. However, I feel the processing power needs to be a bit higher for 1280x720 resolution and we need more video codecs. Nvidia say they won't make the same mistake with the upcoming quadcore, and since it's only 2 months away, the wait feels justified to me.
Don't get me wrong, this tablet owns all other HC tablets at the moment. I just would be very pissed off if the new tablets like the Amazon Hollywood appeared this Christmas and completely destroyed the performance of my 10.1 along with playing nearly any video I copy onto it.
I urge anyone still within their return period to send it back. It would be one thing if the new tablets were 5 or 6 months out, but 2 months is too close.
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You do understand that if you actually lived by that way of thinking, you would literally (seriously, joking aside) never own a tablet...? Because lets say you were thinking about the original G-Tab when it first came out...but then heard that Honeycomb was on its way, so you waited...then Honeycomb shows up with its array of tablets (the Tegra 2 generation)...and as tempting and highly-praised as they may be, you then hear about the next round of Honeycomb tablets (with quadcores )...but wait! not all that long after that should be the Ice Cream Sandwich debut with yet ANOTHER suite of tablets (with maybe hexa- or octo-core chips! ), so I'm guessing you should wait for THOSE to come out, right?!?
No offense man, but I really wish people would come up with more logical, legitimate, and justifiable excuses for not buying new pieces of electronics, because face it - it is a 100% certainty that within 6 months of your purchase of said piece of electronics, it WILL be outdated to some extent. Like it or not, it is a virtual guarantee that within that amount of time the successor generation of products (in this case tablets) will hit the market with better specs and features than that of the product you bought. And that is a stone-cold fact something that all of us as fans of electronics and gizmos simply have to come to grips with.
joeski27 said:
You do understand that if you actually lived by that way of thinking, you would literally (seriously, joking aside) never own a tablet...? Because lets say you were thinking about the original G-Tab when it first came out...but then heard that Honeycomb was on its way, so you waited...then Honeycomb shows up with its array of tablets (Tegra 2)...and as tempting as they may be, you then hear about the next round of Honeycomb tablets (with quadcores )...but wait! not all that long after that should be the Ice Cream Sandwich debut with yet ANOTHER suite of tablets (with maybe hexa- or octo-core chips! ), so I'm guessing you should wait for THOSE to come out, right?!?
No offense man, but I really wish people would come up with more logical, legitimate, and justifiable excuses for not buying new pieces of electronics, because face it - it is a 100% certainty that within 6 months of your purchase of said piece of electronics, it WILL be outdated to some extent. And that is a stone-cold fact something that all of us as fans of electronics and gizmos simply have to come to grips with.
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If you read my OP, you would see my reasoning which should be more than justified with the next slew of more powerful tablets. 6 months is fine to me. Not 2 months, though.
I'll give you an example. I recently built myself a computer and started out with an X58 and a Core i7-950. About a month and a half later, the new P67 boards came out and that awesome i7-2600K with them. I asked on many forums what I should do and most said I should be happy with what I had. I ignored that advice and couldn't be happier. But, when I was building the 2600K rig, everyone kept telling me I was wasting my time because Z68 boards. I don't care about the upcoming Z68 boards because I'm very pleased with my PC. It's far superior to the i7-950 build and it will last for quite some time.
Tegra2 just isn't powerful enough. I can't even use a live wallpaper without stuff becoming sluggish and you can't argue that one. Try moving an icon around with a live wallpaper running.
Their pricey toys...not investments.
Well, in my case they sure are an investment literally, doing post-graduation the laod of coursebooks is unbearable, these a step ahead from usual e-ink crap have helped me a lot, adding the annotation feature. It ain't mere multimedia box where you throw all 1080p movies (God knows from where!) and expect playback or else failure. Consider the excellent resolution, the browser experience with flash and excellent apps around (actually mean the THD games!) plus QUick office HD (as free!!! take this iPAD) and pdf readers like Repligo and eZpdf.
One man's bad experience doesn't justify the claimed redundancy of such a wonderful piece of technology! Quad-cores ahead, sure let'em on, more fun is ahead, massive multitasking and profound browser experience with emerging social networks like google+ and prevalent Fbook!
In short, Screw you man! I am keeping mine!
mughalgxt said:
Well, in my case they sure are an investment literally, doing post-graduation the laod of coursebooks is unbearable, these a step ahead from usual e-ink crap have helped me a lot, adding the annotation feature. It ain't mere multimedia box where you throw all 1080p movies (God knows from where!) and expect playback or else failure. Consider the excellent resolution, the browser experience with flash and excellent apps around (actually mean the THD games!) plus QUick office HD (as free!!! take this iPAD) and pdf readers like Repligo and eZpdf.
One man's bad experience doesn't justify the claimed redundancy of such a wonderful piece of technology! Quad-cores ahead, sure let'em on, more fun is ahead, massive multitasking and profound browser experience with emerging social networks like google+ and prevalent Fbook!
In short, Screw you man! I am keeping mine!
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I definitely love the very last sentence of this.
Now see I'm not saying the tablet is a bad experience. But I think it's a good idea to hold out a few months. It's the same thing with phones. I really like the Sensation and the Evo 3D, but the Nexus is coming this Christmas too. I've been patiently waiting for it.
task650 said:
I definitely love the very last sentence of this.
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Effing priceless
ericc191 said:
Now see I'm not saying the tablet is a bad experience. But I think it's a good idea to hold out a few months. It's the same thing with phones. I really like the Sensation and the Evo 3D, but the Nexus is coming this Christmas too. I've been patiently waiting for it.
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So are you honestly going to say that right about when the time comes for you to buy the phone you're holding out for and you hear rumors swirling about the next phone after that (and this will happen, by the way, it has happen with every single major period of Android-related releases so far), that you won't be tempted to do the same thing over again (that is, hold off until that comes out?). You seem to be missing the point - if you subscribe to this it will unarguably be an endless circle. And it is by no means your fault necessarily, its the Apples, Samsungs, HTCs, LGs, Sonys, Motorolas, Toshibas, etc of the world who are coming out with newer generations of productions, not yearly, or even every 6 months, but most often even less than that. Of course the good side of that is the technology is progressing super fast these days, so I guess that's the tradeoff that we all have to live with - major progression and innovation of tech but with each piece getting trumped by the next every few months
I can honestly say I will get the Nexus 3 or whatever it will be called, regardless of upcoming rumors around that time. As long as it's not done like the Nexus S was. A clone of a phone already out.
ericc191 said:
I can honestly say I will get the Nexus 3 or whatever it will be called, regardless of upcoming rumors around that time. As long as it's not done like the Nexus S was. A clone of a phone already out.
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Well I can definitely agree on you with the Nexus S - I am an N1 owner, from the day of launch, and I have yet to see another new phone on the market since then that can hold a candle to that phone, period. Now that being said, we'll all have to wait and see what the N3 will be all about. If you recall, the Nexus S was rumored to have quite a lot going for it...until it saw the light of day, at which point we were all like, "what?". So clearly the N3 has some really big shoes to fill, and hopefully those developing it realize this completely.
ericc191 said:
Now see I'm not saying the tablet is a bad experience. But I think it's a good idea to hold out a few months. It's the same thing with phones. I really like the Sensation and the Evo 3D, but the Nexus is coming this Christmas too. I've been patiently waiting for it.
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I've been waiting for a Verizon phone with a dual core and LTE forever now and guess what, it'll probably be outdated when it arrives, maybe I should hold off for a quad-core, kal-el, or maybe a 6-core or just maybe wait 25 years in hopes that phones are so advanced every new one will be just like the others (wont happen). Buy now and use it for a few year and sell it on ebay and pay a couple more dollars to get the next gen.
There will always be something newer and faster. And just like our tab, they too will not be perfect.
I definitely understand the point you guys are making. But I'm not concerned about having the newest and best. It's about getting something that works well and also satisfies. If I'm dropping 500 dollars, I want to be completely happy with my purchase and I'm not with the 10.1.
EDIT: I'm going to sign up for that AMEX membership so I can have that option in the future as well.
I never understood the point of threads like these. OP has an opinion; others have their own. What's the point of a poll? And more to the point, regarding the following quote:
ericc191 said:
I urge anyone still within their return period to send it back.
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F-you, OP. You don't have the right to "urge" me to do anything. Your opinion is your own -- but when you try to impose it on me, we've got a problem.
Berner said:
You don't have the right to "urge" me to do anything. Your opinion is your own -- but when you try to impose it on me, we've got a problem.
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Exactly this!
Berner said:
I never understood the point of threads like these. OP has an opinion; others have their own. What's the point of a poll? And more to the point, regarding the following quote:
F-you, OP. You don't have the right to "urge" me to do anything. Your opinion is your own -- but when you try to impose it on me, we've got a problem.
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I can see how that came off wrong. What I meant is that I urge people to consider it.
The point of a thread and poll like this was to see if anyone else was thinking of doing the same thing as me. That's why we have the poll option.
Don't get so worked up over something on the internet. It causes stress.
ericc191 said:
I'll give you an example. I recently built myself a computer and started out with an X58 and a Core i7-950. About a month and a half later, the new P67 boards came out and that awesome i7-2600K with them. I asked on many forums what I should do and most said I should be happy with what I had. I ignored that advice and couldn't be happier. But, when I was building the 2600K rig, everyone kept telling me I was wasting my time because Z68 boards. I don't care about the upcoming Z68 boards because I'm very pleased with my PC. It's far superior to the i7-950 build and it will last for quite some time.
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I understand your thought process, but herein lies the problem:
You returned your old PC and upgraded it and I am sure you are extremely pleased with what you have. Now, if you would have kept your i7-950 build you would have also been extremely pleased with it.
With the way hardware technology is advancing, software developers cannot keep up. How many applications do you have that take advantage of the extra speed of that newer generation processor? Heck, how many applications are there that actually take use of anything higher than a dual core processor? Not many - and in your case, there's probably only a handful of applications that will use the newest generation processors to their potential. In all likelihood you don't use these, and even if you do, you only use them extremely rarely.
The same thing is happening in the Tablet field, although to a stronger extent. I actually don't know of any applications that take use of the dual-core processors in newer generation phones and tablets. In fact, Froyo and Gingerbread don't even take use of dual-core processors at the kernel level. Applications being built for mobile devices just aren't likely to be designed with multi-threading in mind.
Keep this in mind when you are deciding to take your tablet back - but I wish you good luck nonetheless.
You bring up some good points. I play a lot of PC games and noticed a good amount of difference, but outside of games not much.
And there's is a good chance I could get *screwed* with a quad core tablet that overheats and has horrible battery life. We'll see.
ericc191 said:
I can see how that came off wrong. What I meant is that I urge people to consider it.
The point of a thread and poll like this was to see if anyone else was thinking of doing the same thing as me. That's why we have the poll option.
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Why do you think you need to urge people to consider returning their Tabs? We're not children who need to be reminded of our options as consumers. Your ex post facto reinterpretation is nearly as patronizing as your original post.
While I give you credit for acting civil in your posts -- an unusual accomplishment in this genre of threads -- it still appears to me that you're just looking to provoke polarizing responses. Whether the Tab is or isn't a good purchase for someone is matter of personal opinion. No poll or discussion is going to change that.
So we read blogs/articles/magazines/web sites that absolutely rave about the Transformer Prime and have nothing negative to say then we get real world users that do nothing but complain about everything you could possibly think of so the question is.
A.) Did the company's that reviews these get a souped up turbo charged version of the Prime and everyone else got a dumbed down inferior version?
B.) Are the tech company's and magazine publishers lieing to us
C.) Are the real world forum reviews on XDA anal retentive and will complain about anything and everything regardless of what the product is.
Do we have a gray area here in between any of the above 3 scenarios? Something just does not make sense here.
I choose C
I take the the 50:50 joker!
Hm hard to answer, heavy question...maybe all of them?^^
A) That's ridiculous. Reviewers got units with bad WiFi. So they're certainly not better than what people are buying off the streets. Also, the media would go nuts if they ever found out manufacturers were sending them shill units just to get better results.
B) Reviewers are people too and all have their own biases. There may be a positive or negative slant to a review based on those biases but I'd guess they're 80-90% objective. If they always bias their reviews, people would stop reading them.
C) There are three different types of XDA'rs. 1) Unilateral fanboys that can see no wrong even though it's clear something’s amiss. There were people denying the SGS1 had GPS issues when it was totally clear they all did. 2) Pessimists that always look for the negative and amplify it without basis. Some of them may not even own the device. 3) Normal people who just want to share info, have no motive in their comments, and don't need self-validation though forum exchanges. They are usually attacked by the fanboys and pessimists for not having a stronger position either way.
There's clearly some common issues with the early Prime's and the fanboys are out in force denying them while the pessimists are making them larger then they need to be. Look for posts from normal people and use your own judgement in forming an opinion on any particular issue.
BarryH_GEG said:
A) That's ridiculous. Reviewers got units with bad WiFi. So they're certainly not better than what people are buying off the streets. Also, the media would go nuts if they ever found out manufacturers were sending them shill units just to get better results.
B) Reviewers are people too and all have their own biases. There may be a positive or negative slant to a review based on those biases but I'd guess they're 80-90% objective. If they always bias their reviews, people would stop reading them.
C) There are three different types of XDA'rs. 1) Unilateral fanboys that can see no wrong even though it's clear something’s amiss. There were people denying the SGS1 had GPS issues when it was totally clear they all did. 2) Pessimists that always look for the negative and amplify it without basis. Some of them may not even own the device. 3) Normal people who just want to share info, have no motive in their comments, and don't need self-validation though forum exchanges. They are usually attacked by the fanboys and pessimists for not having a stronger position either way.
There's clearly some common issues with the early Prime's and the fanboys are out in force denying them while the pessimists are making them larger then they need to be. Look for posts from normal people and use your own judgement in forming an opinion on any particular issue.
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Lets just use one example the magazines and blogs that reviewed the prime said the speed and browsing was blazing fast everyone on here says its slow and choppy and not even on par with the iPad 2 so how did we get such a difference of opinion on this perticular topic?
jdbaker82 said:
Lets just use one example the magazines and blogs that reviewed the prime said the speed and browsing was blazing fast everyone on here says its slow and choppy and not even on par with the iPad 2 so how did we get such a difference of opinion on this perticular topic?
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Some reviews are very thorough. AnandTech is one of those. Typically, a reviewer spends between a couple of days and a week with a device. Reviewers of the Prime actually commented on how little time they got to spend with it before writing their reviews.
Using a device casually with few apps on it is going to get a different result then loading it up with stuff that the reviewer uses on their own personal device and then using it as a daily driver. Out of the box, even Teg2 devices perform well. A lot of the reviewers really didn't put the Prime through its paces. Look for the reviewers that did, like AnandTech and GSMArena.
The SoC is just one part of the performance equation. For the Prime, the bottleneck looks to be s/w in some cases. I think that's what's happening in your example. And ICS is going to be a big improvement for GB users but it's foundation is actually HC. There are just some things we're going to have to live with in Android and some lag and hesitation in certain functions seems to be one of them. Maybe through s/w optimization and updates Asus (or any manufacturer) may make it better but it seems to be a fact of life. There was a great article from a Google engineer explaining the lag that I'll try to find. It helps understand the difference between iOS and Android.
you saw how anandtech got a hand picked unit to test. if i were a company id send out the best units to reviewers
what is this nonsense, i see a whole crap load of positive posts about the asus.
the negative ones are mostly people who have simple issues that most tablets come with.
I think as somebody has posted elsewhere - there are probably MANY people at home loving their primes and not bothering to mention it on here whilst people having issues will want to find others with those issues, generally ***** and moan, etc. It's a biased cohort on here for sure.
I tend to believe that a lot of the reviewers give positive raves because they get their crap for free! It's totally different for someone who pays $500.00 for it. Of course we expect more because we paid for top notch!
markimar said:
I tend to believe that a lot of the reviewers give positive raves because they get their crap for free! It's totally different for someone who pays $500.00 for it. Of course we expect more because we paid for top notch!
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They don't keep em. They have to send it back.
Sent from my Galaxy S2
C. except maybe the gps, which isnt working for many (includingthe 3 I've tried personally).
Shelfty said:
there are probably MANY people at home loving their primes
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blaziner18 said:
the negative ones are mostly people who have simple issues that most tablets come with.
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There aren't that many Primes out there. The number of issues being reported from a small sample set and the commonality is something to watch. It's too early to say whether they're just early production teething issues, random QC issues, or a design/manufacturing issue. Not all the people reporting problems are alarmists and say positive things along with the negative.
I love this device and have had a few issues with it as well. It's worrisome that the GPS doesn't work and I have had some browser typing lag and a few other minor issues. The reason you hear so much about the negative stuff is that no one is gathering together to talk about what they should do about their tablet being so fast and smooth.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Good thing they'll be only coming out in January in my country. They'll come with QWERTZ keyboard so its probably a different batch.
I think its pretty clear they rushed some things especially in the software department to get it out in time for USA launch. Seems to me like the software is just a port from the original transformer with some added tweaks. Every IT device i owned had some problems at first. If I compare the performance of my DesireHD with custom rom and everything to how it was when i first bought it a year ago... OMG about every aspect of the device is better now. And that only through software tweaks.
I think it's all about the big rush to get the review out ASAP. Like somebody else said, they don't put 100 apps on it and use it constantly to figure out that a little glitch that happened that time is actually a bug that happens consistently when you do certain things. Like the diff between motor trend doing initial impressions on a car review vs long term reviews a year later.
BarryH_GEG said:
Some reviews are very thorough. AnandTech is one of those. Typically, a reviewer spends between a couple of days and a week with a device. Reviewers of the Prime actually commented on how little time they got to spend with it before writing their reviews.
Using a device casually with few apps on it is going to get a different result then loading it up with stuff that the reviewer uses on their own personal device and then using it as a daily driver. Out of the box, even Teg2 devices perform well. A lot of the reviewers really didn't put the Prime through its paces. Look for the reviewers that did, like AnandTech and GSMArena.
The SoC is just one part of the performance equation. For the Prime, the bottleneck looks to be s/w in some cases. I think that's what's happening in your example. And ICS is going to be a big improvement for GB users but it's foundation is actually HC. There are just some things we're going to have to live with in Android and some lag and hesitation in certain functions seems to be one of them. Maybe through s/w optimization and updates Asus (or any manufacturer) may make it better but it seems to be a fact of life. There was a great article from a Google engineer explaining the lag that I'll try to find. It helps understand the difference between iOS and Android.
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Just throwing my two-cents out there but I thought ICS was based on the linux 3.x series kernel and HC was on a 2.6 derivative... That alone makes me feel like ICS is more groud-up built OS as opposed to an OS derived directly from HC. Think revolution, not evolution. Or am I wrong or just blowing this out of proportion?
swallaces said:
Just throwing my two-cents out there but I thought ICS was based on the linux 3.x series kernel and HC was on a 2.6 derivative... That alone makes me feel like ICS is more groud-up built OS as opposed to an OS derived directly from HC. Think revolution, not evolution. Or am I wrong or just blowing this out of proportion?
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Here's some links. There's a bunch of new APIs for developers to write against but, other than that, the only technical benefit to ICS is h/w acceleration. That already exists in HC. It seems that a lot of stuff the manufacturers added-on are now included natively in the OS. So it seems like a "revolution" for GB but "evolution" for HC. Any developers with more insight chime in.
ICS Features:
http://briefmobile.com/android-4-0-ice-cream-sandwich-announced-feature-list
ICS Developers Discussion:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/search/label/Android 4.0
HC Developers Discussion:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/03/android-30-hardware-acceleration.html
Downloaded thumb keyboard. Seems like the best keyboard for tablets. No lag when typing.
I think the consumers will be harsh on the prime because we had to wait for it and there was much hype about the prime. The reviewers from websites didn't spent their hard earned dollars on this piece of equipment.
The way I see it, we have every right to be harsh on judging the prime. We expected something that works. If there were kinks in the software, fine. But seems like we have some real concerns about this device that aren't just kinks.
Hopefully ASUS actually reading these feedbacks and are going to address our concerns soon.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
I dont own a prime but this situation reminds me a lot of when the galaxy s first came out. The reviews were overwelmingly positive but once i got my device it turned out to be nothing like the reviews. It took months and an actual hardware revision before it worked ok.
Never trust early reviews and avoid being an early adopter. I want to see how it performs on ics before buying.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I know this question has come up before, but still looking for some opinions. I just returned a transformer prime that I purchased due to some dead pixels on the display and have been questioning what I should do.
With the time I had with the prime, I was impressed overall with the experience. The wireless was on the weak side, but I didn't have an issue using it anywhere in my house I needed to. With the upcoming 1080p displays, I am thinking I will wait to get another tablet as I would like to use it to read and I'm sure the higher resolution will make a big difference. I also know that other manufacturers will be releasing competitive devices, so I may not stick with ASUS depending on what else is out there, although I do like that it seems like they are on top of updates and bugfixes unlike some of the other companies.
I have also been considering looking at the next ipad when it is released. I am definitely an android fan, and haven't used ios much other than playing a bit on other people's iphones. I know that there isn't as much OS customization available for the device, but I am not sure if that should be a deciding factor. I know the ipad defninitely has more tablet specific apps and even though android does handle scaling any app up to tablet size, some of the games and apps aren't that great. It also seems like if a company is going to release an app or a game that it will definitely be available for ios and may or may not be for android. I don't really haven't figured out what my overall use of the tablet will be, but I would hate to limit myself because an app I want isn't available.
I'm not sure what everybody's thought is on this. I know that this is an android specific forum, but I'm also sure that a lot of people probably own or have used an ipad and know it's strengths and weaknesses.
I am in the same boat with you. I have been holding off for a while before getting a prime. I was planning on picking one up tomorrow. I do not support apple products, nor do they stick out to me. they make great stuff. But sense all the new UI with android devices is improving daily, its awesome. Both Acer and Levono are coming out with a Tegra 3 quad core powered tablet in the near future. I have been lurking these forums for a while doing my research and checking reveiws and watching issues. While i really want the transformer prime aside from any other tablet out. I feel that some of these issues weigh heavy in my decision..
In short. if you like the tablet alot, give it another shot. If you do not. Wait and see what happens soon.
I would say that if you don't need a tablet right now, and you don't need a tablet with a keyboard dock then wait until there is more selection before making a new purchase. There is no sense in buying something you are unsure about, or keeping something that you aren't completely happy with.
As for the iPad, I have used them and while they are very smooth I just wasn't impressed with the OS itself. It ran fine (better than Android in a lot of ways) and there are a lot of apps available for it that I wish were on Android but the overall experience just never got me all that excited about the device. All in all the iPad is great, though. It just wasn't for me.
One thing to consider if you are moving from Android to iOS is that you will have to buy or find replacements for any apps that you have come to rely on. For most Android apps you will be able to find a direct replacement in iOS, but it would be an added expense on top of the cost of the new hardware. Also you would lose out on most Google services, so if you have come to rely on those the transition might be a little rough. Google makes apps for iOS but they are no where near as nice as they are on Android.
Getting new apps will be a bit of a pain, but I would assume there is an equivalent ios app for everything that I rely on with my phone. The google apps may be a problem. I will have to take a look to see how they work and if they will suit my needs.
My UK Prime is due for delivery this weekend, but I'm still 50/50 whether to cancel or not.
However, when I'm on the 50% side to persue the purchase it's because I realise there are unlikely to be any other competing tablets out for at least 6 months. If competing tablets are announced in mid to late Feb, stock won't be here until June or July.
I plan on keeping my Prime for 12 months. By xmas time, the tablet market should have matured nicely with the next wave of technology in them, and I'll look to sell my Prime and upgrade.
But I'm not willing to wait 6 months for something similar or better to come out.
I want one now and the only two tablets I'd consider are the iPad 2.5 (due in March) and the Prime.
http://online.wsj.com/article_email...12043639469540-lMyQjAxMTAyMDIwOTEyNDkyWj.html
good find. I can only see this as being positive for Android. plus Google store will likely be stocked up. some tablets won't be hard to find anymore. I'm sure Google would keep their online supplies stocked up. then this will also tie into Google wallet accounts. purchases made easy on Google online store through Google wallet.
Assuming this comes true, it confirms the obvious, that the laissez faire vendor adoption method has failed. Google needed to be more hands-on. Hopefully it'll be the first step in a process, as by itself, it isn't enough to win market share.
Much as I would like to get a decent $199 tab, selling widgets at a loss (or break-even) is not a winning strategy. Goog will have to cook up some magic jelly beans, then grow a beanstalk and climb out of the low-rent district. Apple the Jolly Giant is waiting at the top.
Exciting times!
dec. esryse
Ya im not disappointed by this
e.mote said:
Much as I would like to get a decent $199 tab, selling widgets at a loss (or break-even) is not a winning strategy. Goog will have to cook up some magic jelly beans, then grow a beanstalk and climb out of the low-rent district. Apple the Jolly Giant is waiting at the top.
Exciting times!
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How can you say it's not a winning strategy? Razor blade manufacturers have been doing it for years--sell the razor at a loss, make it back big-time with the razors. Amazon is doing it with the Kindle, and I think Google could benefit significantly from doing it as well. They want to sell ads on mobile devices, and I'm sure they recognize that Apple would like to take this business away from them on iOS devices. And that's not to mention selling content via Google Play.
I think a subsidized tablet could help kick-start the Android tablet market in general. At the very least, it could convince developers that they should be investing in tablet-optimized apps, which is the one thing that's missing from the equation.
While this is good news and all, Google REALLY need to start trying to get developers into making good Android Tablet apps, we are getting close to an even keel on phone apps, but Android Tablet apps lag so far behind iPad it isnt even funny!
e.mote said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577312043639469540.html
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Google bought Motorola Mobility and would NEVER rely or use Asus to throw it's own name on their tablets. Google knows Asus tablets aren't up to par with quality and could never compete with Apple on quality. I'll buy a Google branded Moto tablet instantly cause it will be of high quality and defect free. I've used 3 ipad3's already and not one had ANY light bleed at all. Strangely every Asus tablet I've touched or used had some kind of light bleed. People do see the inferior products being used.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/29/nvidia-ceo-suggests-199-tegra-3-tablets-in-the-summer/
He's been saying that since last year... however, I also find it to be annoying.
Anyways, if Tegra 3 devices do hit $199 price, I can only imagine how crippled other aspects in the system specifications will look like.
Btw, this notion that if more "android tablets" are in the wild.. you will see more 3rd parties developing dedicated tablet apps due to the increased potential in profit/revenue.
However, if you look into smartphone market, it's not exactly true. You certainly see growth compared to when Android Market started, but if you compared to iOS app store... it's nothing to boast about considering that Android Smartphone (as a whole) leads the share in smartphone market over iPhone.
Simply put, Android users do not spend money on apps as much as iOS users. Until this TREND changes... you won't see 3rd parties developing unique tablets apps for Android. Btw, Google's approach with unified "app" between tablet & smartphone doesn't help either.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/android-vs-iphone-economics-apps-160608285.html
>How can you say it's not a winning strategy? Razor blade manufacturers have been doing it for years...Amazon is doing it with the Kindle, and I think Google could benefit significantly from doing it as well. They want to sell ads on mobile devices
It's not a winning strategy because the razor-blade model is not yet proven on tablets. I haven't seen Amazon break out the champagne for the loads of profit from selling things through the Fire. Amazon is in a much better position to monetize from its tablet because a) it has more stuff to sell, not just ads, and b) the Fire is intentionally limited to get all its contents exclusively from Amazon. A Goog tablet won't have the same luxury, not if it were to be "open" as prior Nexus devices.
Fundamentally, it's not a winning strategy because you can't base a platform around the idea of pushing ads/wares into the user's face. Amazon is selling a portable kiosk. Google is trying to sell an entire mobile platform, and the platform has to succeed on its own merit, ie have an intrinsic worth. The rumored $199 tablet can only be a barebone, stripped down unit. It cannot compete with the incumbent iPad, nor with the more functional Win8 tablets when those appear.
I'd agree that it's a necessary stop-gap action. Goog needs to get enough devices out there so devs would develop for it. It's the same as what RIM is doing with Playbook. A $199 tab is also needed not to compete with Amazon, but prevent it from hijacking the Android platform.
The only winning strategy has to be based on the user experience, which in turn depends on the OS. Simply put, HC wasn't good enough. Based on what I've seen here of the Prime's update travails, ICS is still a beta. Fully 5 months after launch, the main improvements in 4.0.4 changelog still have the words "faster" and "more stable" and "fixes" in them. Fine for enthusiasts, not so fine for Joe Blow.
You can make it good, or you can make it cheap. Android failed on the first, so it needed to resort to the second. But the long-term solution is still to make it good.
The more tablets they spew out, the more work it takes for devs to port/update apps for that specific tablet. When the TFP came out a bunch of games didn't work (Dead Space, Gameloft, etc) and they had to take time to port it. How big of the market share do you think the TFP represents 1%? Then tmw some ABCD tablet is gonna come out and they will have to port for that again. I read somewhere that interest for Android tab delopment is actually declining unlike the smartphone market. They better get their stuff together before W8 hits.
^^^
Same thing goes for accessories...
Modded by MBOK
What Google could hopefully do is to subsidize them a bit. While we pay our 400-700€ for a tablet most of the "normal" consumer won't and most people I also won't recommend such an expensive device for the few things they would do with it.
Tablet market in general is still very small and even Apple has just a little tiny piece of it. To get it attractive for the "normal" users they have to be around 200€/$ max and Google hopefully can do that.
MysteriousDiary said:
What Google could hopefully do is to subsidize them a bit. While we pay our 400-700€ for a tablet most of the "normal" consumer won't and most people I also won't recommend such an expensive device for the few things they would do with it.
Tablet market in general is still very small and even Apple has just a little tiny piece of it. To get it attractive for the "normal" users they have to be around 200€/$ max and Google hopefully can do that.
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I dont think pricing them cheaper is gonna do a whole lot anymore. You have the iPad 2 setting the upper bar at 400 and the iPad 3 setting the absolute highest at 500 then you have the Fire setting the low bar at 200. All other tablets are stuck in the 300 area or is forced to compete with the iPad head on. And you bet 99% of consumers are gonna ask why they would want to pay more for an Android tab when they can get an iPad for cheaper.
The problem is that they need more devs on Android. How many times do we have to wait for iOS apps to hopefully be ported over. When does it ever happen the other way around?
Well there are great Android Apps who are not available for iOS. I'm always wondering why people look at iOS apps and want the exact same instead of looking what Android has to get the same job done. It's about getting the things done people want to do on their tablet - doesn't matter if the app is called a or b. Especially since ICS more and more Apps also have a native Tablet UI - thanks to the fragments. On the other side iOS still is like a stretched phone OS with it's 4x4(5) grid - even on a big tablet.
The new iPad doesn't sell well too. The sells of it are much worser than Apple seems to have expected and the workers in Foxconn got already "just" 4 day weeks and holiday because of the reduced iPad production. They also switched some production lines to other products because of the less demand in new iPads. Even the chinese sellers in blackmarket are sitting on their new iPads and can barely sell them.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&MainCatID&id=20120328000090
And while maybe about 50% of people have a SmartPhone it's maybe less than 10% or 5% for tablets. We're still far away from a bit tablet boom. For most usecases the current ones were just too expensive - those are tablets for us...the geeks. Kindle Fire is just available in the US and not all want a tablet where you barely can see and feel the Android underneath it.
I still believe in a big success of a good 199$ Tablet from Google/ASUS. It's also the perfect price range for birthday gifts.
>http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&MainCatID&id=20120328000090
Good anecdotal piece. It's a bit too soon to determine iPad sales, but there are caution flags out (also anecdote-based).
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...s-avoid-shares-till-fyq2-ipad-sales-play-out/
>I still believe in a big success of a good 199$ Tablet from Google/ASUS.
Assuming a bit better specs than Fire, it should be a best-seller. By itself, it may well jump-start Android tab adoption/development, especially as iPad & Win8 won't be in this price range. Then again, Apple may well release the rumored $300 miniPad in 2H to put a choke hold on Android.
In that same vein, Acer & Co, masters of the cheap netbooks, may want to repeat their fortune with cheap Win8 tabs. The sticking point here is Win8's 1366x768 min res, which would preclude Win8 from cheap 7" units.
Going down the line, I can't imagine Amazon will sit still for Google to eat its lunch. We may well see a $149 Fire yet.
How low can they go?
MysteriousDiary said:
Well there are great Android Apps who are not available for iOS. I'm always wondering why people look at iOS apps and want the exact same instead of looking what Android has to get the same job done. It's about getting the things done people want to do on their tablet - doesn't matter if the app is called a or b. Especially since ICS more and more Apps also have a native Tablet UI - thanks to the fragments. On the other side iOS still is like a stretched phone OS with it's 4x4(5) grid - even on a big tablet.
The new iPad doesn't sell well too. The sells of it are much worser than Apple seems to have expected and the workers in Foxconn got already "just" 4 day weeks and holiday because of the reduced iPad production. They also switched some production lines to other products because of the less demand in new iPads. Even the chinese sellers in blackmarket are sitting on their new iPads and can barely sell them.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&MainCatID&id=20120328000090
And while maybe about 50% of people have a SmartPhone it's maybe less than 10% or 5% for tablets. We're still far away from a bit tablet boom. For most usecases the current ones were just too expensive - those are tablets for us...the geeks. Kindle Fire is just available in the US and not all want a tablet where you barely can see and feel the Android underneath it.
I still believe in a big success of a good 199$ Tablet from Google/ASUS. It's also the perfect price range for birthday gifts.
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Thanks for the shocking revelation, to me, on current Ipad sales. I love it..lol. seems like all the current issues with it and not really being an upgrade from ipad2 is hurting sales dramatically. Steve is rolling over in his grave over this latest Ipad. I hope this is the beginning of the downfall of apple. All that national
ITS LIKE THEY SAY, WHAT GOES UP, MUST COME DOWN. Apple has no where else to go but down. Seems like people realizing there are more choices in tablets other than Ipad.
MysteriousDiary said:
The new iPad doesn't sell well too. The sells of it are much worser than Apple seems to have expected and the workers in Foxconn got already "just" 4 day weeks and holiday because of the reduced iPad production. They also switched some production lines to other products because of the less demand in new iPads. Even the chinese sellers in blackmarket are sitting on their new iPads and can barely sell them.
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If the iPad 3 isn't selling well then Android is selling at all. Because Apple sold 25% of the tablets Android ever sold in just 3 days. The lower workload and blackmarket sellers not being able to resell iPads could just be because Apple was better prepared compared to their iPad 2 launch (ie having preorders for the 3). Apple learned unlike ASUS did going from OG TF to the TFP.
You know news sites love to make controversies and because people will read anything related to Apple. Take the heat problem for example, there was all the controversy but then they found out that its not even that much hotter to other tablets.
xGary said:
If the iPad 3 isn't selling well then Android is selling at all. Because Apple sold 25% of the tablets Android ever sold in just 3 days. The lower workload and blackmarket sellers not being able to resell iPads could just be because Apple was better prepared compared to their iPad 2 launch (ie having preorders for the 3). Apple learned unlike ASUS did going from OG TF to the TFP.
You know news sites love to make controversies and because people will read anything related to Apple. Take the heat problem for example, there was all the controversy but then they found out that its not even that much hotter to other tablets.
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so the tens of thousands of ipads throwing up Shutting down due to overheating is controversy? especially since its well documented on apple forums and ipadforums.net, which is the largest Ipad forums. it wasn't controversies, that's a real issue with the new Ipad which got national television coverage on it in less than a week of its launch. that's one of the main reasons Ipad sales have halted. along with ipad2 users seeing no real benefits into upgrading. everyone totes it not as a real upgrade. more comparable to b.s. iPhone in-between builds. next Ipad to release will be the true upgrade to ipad2. current latest release is more like the ipad2S.
demandarin said:
so the tens of thousands of ipads throwing up Shutting down due to overheating is controversy? especially since its well documented on apple forums and ipadforums.net, which is the largest Ipad forums. it wasn't controversies, that's a real issue with the new Ipad which got national television coverage on it in less than a week of its launch. that's one of the main reasons Ipad sales have halted. along with ipad2 users seeing no real benefits into upgrading. everyone totes it not as a real upgrade. more comparable to b.s. iPhone in-between builds. next Ipad to release will be the true upgrade to ipad2. current latest release is more like the ipad2S.
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I did not see where tens of thousands of iPads shutting down due to overheating happen. Look on the iPad 3 section on the iPadForums right now. How many threads do you see with people complaining about heat? I looked through 4 pages and the only thread I saw about heat was someone asking if there was indeed a heat problem and people replying that it does get a little warmer but nothing crazy. It is an electronic, it gets warm. My TFP got hot when I played an hour of Dungeon Defender. Does the iPad get hotter? Probably. Do I notice it? No.
And Apple is set to release once a year. It is their schedule that they will stick to. People can't expect Apple to make a major breakthrough like the iPhone and iPad every year. They will make huge breakthroughs but just not every year. A lot of Android devices get crappy upgrades between versions and no one cries about it. Maybe for once there could be a huge breakthrough from Android and Apple will follow that. Why must it always be the other way around?
Interesting article on Why the Google store selling tablets online would succeed.
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...iled&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
So I love my nexus ten, but I do not understand what google is trying to pull here. They make it almost impossible first to track down one of these things down. Then they do little to no advertising so the only ppl that really know about the nexus line are tech geeks while the average consumer is bombarded with iPad ads on every street corner. Then on top of that they release not even one official accessory for it!! No case, no smart cover, nothing OEM, pathetic! Go to an apple store and see all the junk you can get for it. Also look at the nexus 7 dock..... so they are going to release it a year after the product drops and is obsolete by then? Its like Google is just like OK lets make an awesome tablet for fun but screw anyone actually trying to live or own one!!!
waltthizzney said:
So I love my nexus ten, but I do not understand what google is trying to pull here. They make it almost impossible first to track down one of these things down. Then they do little to no advertising so the only ppl that really know about the nexus line are tech geeks while the average consumer is bombarded with iPad ads on every street corner. Then on top of that they release not even one official accessory for it!! No case, no smart cover, nothing OEM, pathetic! Go to an apple store and see all the junk you can get for it. Also look at the nexus 7 dock..... so they are going to release it a year after the product drops and is obsolete by then? Its like Google is just like OK lets make an awesome tablet for fun but screw anyone actually trying to live or own one!!!
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You know there are plenty of cases for it on Amazon and Ebay.
waltthizzney said:
So I love my nexus ten, but I do not understand what google is trying to pull here. They make it almost impossible first to track down one of these things down. Then they do little to no advertising so the only ppl that really know about the nexus line are tech geeks while the average consumer is bombarded with iPad ads on every street corner. Then on top of that they release not even one official accessory for it!! No case, no smart cover, nothing OEM, pathetic! Go to an apple store and see all the junk you can get for it. Also look at the nexus 7 dock..... so they are going to release it a year after the product drops and is obsolete by then? Its like Google is just like OK lets make an awesome tablet for fun but screw anyone actually trying to live or own one!!!
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I completely agree. I absolutely love my Nexus 10 tablet, and the more I use it and the more reviews I read the more I'm assured that it's just as good as the iPad 4. Yet no one other than tech geeks have even heard of it. Google ONLY makes it available on the Playstore, gives ZERO indication of what retail stores will be carrying it and when, displays NO advertising on TV or otherwise, and releases no accessories.
It's really disappointing. It has the specs to succeed. It has the OS to succeed. It has the screen to succeed. It has the name brand to succeed. All it needs is some proper marketing and to provide some availability and it will be a huge success. Judging by the fact that it's sold out on the Play Store, and that every time a few show up at a Wal Mart they're immediately picked up tells me that there's a very high demand and that people want it. Maybe Google is laying a bit low right now because they can't come anywhere close to having enough stock if the demand went up considerably right now? I don't know.
Valid statement.
digitalrelic said:
I completely agree. I absolutely love my Nexus 10 tablet, and the more I use it and the more reviews I read the more I'm assured that it's just as good as the iPad 4. Yet no one other than tech geeks have even heard of it. Google ONLY makes it available on the Playstore, gives ZERO indication of what retail stores will be carrying it and when, displays NO advertising on TV or otherwise, and releases no accessories.
It's really disappointing. It has the specs to succeed. It has the OS to succeed. It has the screen to succeed. It has the name brand to succeed. All it needs is some proper marketing and to provide some availability and it will be a huge success. Judging by the fact that it's sold out on the Play Store, and that every time a few show up at a Wal Mart they're immediately picked up tells me that there's a very high demand and that people want it. Maybe Google is laying a bit low right now because they can't come anywhere close to having enough stock if the demand went up considerably right now? I don't know.
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I think your final statement is quite valid. They needed to launch to take some attention from the launch of the ipad mini but weren't really in a position to do so, stock wise. I also wonder wether they are trying to avoid upsetting other OEM that use android that also want to sell tablets this christmas.
This is the first Nexus line that is actually this in demand and desirable to the masses. Previous Nexus launches has very little to offer to those wanting anything other than pure android experience. This time it is coming with top of the line spec and hardware and software to match that hardware and it exploded in the market.
Google didnt predict this, neither did lot of us. Lot of us did not expect that this product will be in such a demand that it will be hard to get one. Frankly the top of the line 32GB model has not been hard to get. I ordered 3 and got all 3 within a week of order even when they estimated anything from 2 to 4 weeks as waiting time.
Google will learn from this. And the success of this line actually gives google incentive to go all out on a big launch next time around. So overall, this is good for those who swear by nexus. Maybe it will be mainstream launch next time around thanks to the success of this lineup.
Funkym0nkey said:
This is the first Nexus line that is actually this in demand and desirable to the masses. Previous Nexus launches has very little to offer to those wanting anything other than pure android experience. This time it is coming with top of the line spec and hardware and software to match that hardware and it exploded in the market.
Google didnt predict this, neither did lot of us. Lot of us did not expect that this product will be in such a demand that it will be hard to get one. Frankly the top of the line 32GB model has not been hard to get. I ordered 3 and got all 3 within a week of order even when they estimated anything from 2 to 4 weeks as waiting time.
Google will learn from this. And the success of this line actually gives google incentive to go all out on a big launch next time around. So overall, this is good for those who swear by nexus. Maybe it will be mainstream launch next time around thanks to the success of this lineup.
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I think the main aim of the Nexus 10 was to get an excellent next-gen 10 inch tablet into the hands of developers to create and update apps. They didn't push hard on the marketing because many average customers might have been disappointed by the app selection (eg Facebook, Twitter and Spotify are all borked at the moment). Apparently Key Lime Pie is focussing heavily on tablets (with all kinds of rumours around multiple apps and Chrome OS integration flying round) and with its release Google might push the Nexus 10 harder. I think the Note 10.1 II, with a Nexus 10 screen + digitiser/s-pen + expandable storage will go gangbusters and the rest of the 10 Android market will follow.
I don't think Google intended for this to be anything more than a developer reference tablet and a toy for loyal Android geeks. They're trying to gently establish a new footing in the way of optimised apps for ten inch tablets. There are hardly any apps that have been optimised for the kind of screen resolution that Android tablets will need to veer towards in order to take on the iPad. There are hardly any 10 inch tablet UIs either. You can get away with normal Android apps on the Nexus 7 but not on a ten inch tablet. Google probably didn't think the Nexus 10 was ready for a mainstream heavily marketed push, but felt that the ground work needed to be initiated in this manner. We are the guinea pigs they needed!
Once that's been achieved, Google will probably push the next Nexus 10 like they pushed the Nexus 7.
Doesn't really explain then why they would choose to offer it at Walmart, king of the mass retail chains. I agree, this launch was half-assed.
aimfire72 said:
Doesn't really explain then why they would choose to offer it at Walmart, king of the mass retail chains. I agree, this launch was half-assed.
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Because they decided they didn't want availability restricted to online stores?
Google have pumped money into marketing Gmail, Google+, Chrome, the Chromebook and the Nexus 7. If Google felt it was currently worthwhile to push the Nexus 10 to that extent, they would have done. Maybe when the Android platform has a more respectable 10 inch ecosystem their strategy will evolve.
One thing I've noticed about sites like XDA and Android fan sites is that these communities mistakenly think their interests represent anything more than the whispering voice of an extreme minority.
I mean, why sell a developer reference device at Walmart of all places, lol.. Frys or Microcenter would be a better choice for that. By selling at Walmart, they must be going for the general public, at least somewhat. I think they are still testing the waters in terms of how to market the device.
In my country (Germany) you can't even buy a N10, mo matter which size.
So if you have a N10, calm down, buy a non-OEM case and be happy
The launch, doesnt matter for developers or not, was a complete fail. You cant hype up and then release a batch of lets say 5000 devices in a 100 million population country. In Germany, the tablet was sold out in 15 minutes. I really wanted to order it, but all im getting is frustration and anger with the Play Store. Since i wanted to have a tablet for christmas, i guess ill settle with something else (maybe even the ipad, although im an android fan), what Google is doing is just a f-in miserable failure of marketing, sales and customer service.
This would be a dev device if it wouldve costed 600 bucks, promicing cheaper versions coming up in the next 2-3 months. But releasing such a device for 400 bucks and expecting very low interest is just idiotic... Im so disappointed with Google that i cant even describe it.
I agree, i wouldn't have known about the nexus 10 if my friend didn't tell me about it (he is very big into android) as to me, i'm really new to android and this will be the first android device i will own. I used iPhones, iPads but i got to bored with there interface. (you can only do so much even with a jailbroken device) I wanted to try something different and always wanted an android, so this tablet was a wake up call to switch over. Now im currently waiting the arrival of my nexus 10, I already love it from everything i read and cant wait to get it in my hands!!
Nexus isn't your typical retail ware. It's a collaboration between Google and the OEM, but because the pricing is lower than the OEM's own products, the OEM isn't pushing it. No promotion, and no accessories. It's up to Goog to do promotion and distribution, but Goog isn't putting much effort into either. I've seen ads for N7, but none for N10 or N4.
Distribution is mostly limited to Goog Play for N10. The handfuls of $499 SKU that make it into Walmart aren't competitive against iPads (Walmart is selling iPad3 for $399). In short, N10 and N4 are mainly reference devices, and for hardcore Android fans. They're not mass-market wares.
This may be intentional, since may be the intent is for OEMs to follow-up with comparable retail products, once they see how successful the reference devices are. N7 was a hit, and I'm pretty sure we'll see Asus & Co follow-up with similar 7" at similar pricing this year. Likewise, lower-tier vendors may see demand for N4 as a template to do similar handsets.
N10 (more generally, 10" tabs) will be a harder sell for OEMs to bite on. I doubt it will have any impact at all on overall Android tablet sales. It would've been better had Goog followed the KFHD/Nook model and came out with a $300 1080p tablet. On the bright side, at least it didn't bomb like the Nexus Q-ball.
iPad Mini will be the runaway hit this Christmas, eclipsing the iPad. It has the right blend of size, portability, and price. And it's perfect for kids and those with small hands. Its 4:3 screen allows for a much more usable display than the N7, which sucked for portrait. I'm hoping OEMs will pick up that cue as well and market some Mini-clone, at least in form factor.
The one good news for Android tablets is that Windows tablets/hybrids have bombed so spectacularly. Hopefully this will get major vendors to give Android tabs a second try, after the 2011 fiasco.
e.mote said:
Nexus isn't your typical retail ware. It's a collaboration between Google and the OEM, but because the pricing is lower than the OEM's own products, the OEM isn't pushing it. No promotion, and no accessories. It's up to Goog to do promotion and distribution, but Goog isn't putting much effort into either. I've seen ads for N7, but none for N10 or N4.
Distribution is mostly limited to Goog Play for N10. The handfuls of $499 SKU that make it into Walmart aren't competitive against iPads (Walmart is selling iPad3 for $399). In short, N10 and N4 are mainly reference devices, and for hardcore Android fans. They're not mass-market wares.
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I finally saw a commerical ad for the N10 along with N4! It was about a week or so ago but that was it.
Edit: Here is the commercial I saw on TV. YouTube had it.
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