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Heya all N9 fans! We all want Nokia N9 development thread on XDA, right?
Let's vote this in hope that the moderators will hear our voice and will create a separate thread.
Give your vote in the poll above and don't forget to Submit Thread!
Thanks and cheers!
whats so special about the n9? any development that requires a dedicated thread?
First of all it is a smartphone which has an open source platform and it lacks developers; the more users/fans it will have - the more it will attract developers to work around it.
Secondly, this is a great piece of machinery with a cool OS. Beside that, an Android OS could theoretically be ported to this device and XDA is one of few communities that could bring to this great phone/OS some further development, by that giving more chances for life, as Nokia has officially resigned from MeeGo project.
costisanu said:
First of all it is a smartphone which has an open source platform and it lacks developers; the more users/fans it will have - the more it will attract developers to work around it.
Secondly, this is a great piece of machinery with a cool OS. Beside that, an Android OS could theoretically be ported to this device and XDA is one of few communities that could bring to this great phone/OS some further development, by that giving more chances for life, as Nokia has officially resigned from MeeGo project.
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The only thing that will help development for this phone is that developers have this phone. The problem with that is it wasnt sold world wide. Not many people have this phone. Having a spot on XDA will not bring developers to a phone with a discontinued OS on it.
@zelendel: Can't disagree with that, but now the phone is available on e-Bay (which is quite world wide), with a more realistic price of around 500$.
The thing is that this little piece of machinery has impressed me a lot. But I wouldn't risk to buy it unless I can see that the phone will have a future. And I believe that threads like this will show us very clearly what is N9's destiny
costisanu said:
@zelendel: Can't disagree with that, but now the phone is available on e-Bay (which is quite world wide), with a more realistic price of around 500$.
The thing is that this little piece of machinery has impressed me a lot. But I wouldn't risk to buy it unless I can see that the phone will have a future. And I believe that threads like this will show us very clearly what is N9's destiny
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Dont get me wrong I had the n9 for a little bit but got rid of it after a bit. There is a dedicated thread for asking for a new device forum. HERE
Might be a better place for this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1416406
zelendel said:
Dont get me wrong I had the n9 for a little bit but got rid of it after a bit. There is a dedicated thread for asking for a new device forum. HERE
Might be a better place for this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1416406
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Thanks for the link, but you know what N9 is not even in the poll list
Can't believe that this phone has such small chances to ever succeed.
By the way, why did you got rid of it?
It has come to my attention that a few people have been misunderstanding a few recent posts by myself. This is post is to clear the waters up a bit and to explain my position as a developer here on XDA.
As many of you guys know, we're probably the most lively "dead" device on XDA. At least in my opinion that is. We have been through a lot as a community but we still manage to survive. But recently things have been getting a little tense.
I received this device last summer like most of you have. When I got it, I immediately started figuring out how to get CM7 on it. Problem is that it was my first Android phone and with all the ways that Motorola locked it down I had a lot to learn and no time to learn it. After I learned off and on how to get things working on the X2 during the NO free time I had last fall I cranked out a pretty much solid CM7 in a week.
Now for the explanation for CM9/ICS. Most people probably think that since I could crank out CM7 so fast that I would be able to do the same with CM9 and make it just as good and amazing as CM7. Although I had it booted on the first build, it was FULL of errors and the touch screen didn't even work. ICS and CM9 is definitely not as easy as CM7. CM7 was already a year and a half in the making and had most of the problems worked out on all the devices that when it finally came time for us, it would just as smooth as butter as soon as it was booted. CM9 hasn't had time to develop into a "smooth" ROM for most devices; especially non-official like ours. The code for the touchscreen to work wasn't even in CM9 on my first build, for example. The problems for CM9/ICS can be narrowed down to a few things:
Graphics Memory
No Official ICS
Kernel Improvements
Graphics Memory and No Official ICS: Due to the way that ICS handles the way it puts stuff on our screen we run into Video RAM (VRAM) problems on our device. Basically the routines that control it are expecting the memory to be mapped (stored) in a certain way in VRAM. On a device that has ICS officially, this isn't as big as a problem as the proprietary files (props) are coded to respond to those requests and mappings and as such run smoother. If a device doesn't have ICS, most it usually has a similar device in which props can be pulled and ran accordingly.
This is not the case for Tegra 2 phones as no Tegra 2 device has official ICS. In fact the Tegra kernel (just looked this up) is only at 2.6.34-rc3 officially and have a 3.1.10 kernel in developement (Motorola can update it again to .35 if they wish to do so like for the ATRIX). Because of the lack of an official Tegra 2 kernel for Linux 3.X, and likewise the props for such kernel, we can't have props that handle the requests the system is asking for. And even if another phone gets updated, we're locked and stuck, so It doesn't matter either way. This means that VRAM problems will probably always be there and that there is nothing that I can do for it. Best thing I can hope for (and this is slowly making it's way through CM9) is that the code in CM9 is updated to allow us to handle the VRAM differently like in CM7/GB.
Kernel Improvements: The kernel (that's supposed to be) for ICS is 3.0 or higher. This includes changes in memory as stated above, touchscreen handling, device interaction with the kernel and many others. That being said, we don't have those improvements thus causing problems. These include memory as stated above, touchscreen not working (obviously fixed), data usage not working, data monitoring not working, and a few various ways other routines to draw to the screen and handle other things (such as why Chrome is picky). Some of these can be backported (downgraded) to our kernel with mixed results.
Problem is they have to be complied with our kernel and must match the kernel version in every way. That is why the kernel check is in CM7 and CM9. I can slowly work through implementing these routines through drivers known as kernel modules (mods). I have made mods for data usage (with a few issues) and another one (which not sure what it's supposed to do yet). I cannot (as in it's impossible) write them to change the memory handling. If I could even build them the kernel won't let me load them due to routines of same name fighting for control.
Think of it like the phone is a car and you and your friend are in the front (the kernel routines) and you have the exact same name. Meanwhile, you have another friend in the back (the OS). The OS says, "Hey Routines Named the Same, grab the wheel and turn turn left!" You would turn it to your left, but your friend (the other routine) has a different view of what left is and instead wants to go to your right. Obviously some problems arise.
Regarding the Soft Keys Issue: I know a few of you guys are a little upset regrading the fact that I won't add the soft keys in there by default. I have a justifiable reason behind not adding them: our phone already has buttons.
Our phone was designed to have hardware buttons that separate from the screen. Adding more buttons to the screen for buttons that already exist is not advantageous. It also unnecessarily takes up screen space that makes our phone our phone. Now you may be thinking, "Well the GNex has the soft keys on the screen..." You are correct. But the screen itself has actually been extended (as in a non-standard physical height) to accommodate for the soft keys and also has no hardware buttons for the menu and home, etc. In fact! The Nexus S (a still HIGHLY developed for, supported device and previous "Google Phone") doesn't even have the soft keys enabled from the software directly available from Google themselves.
With that being said, XDA user csking33 has made the option of softkeys available to the public should you choose to enable it. He has it working on the current Alpha 4 and I look forward to him getting them working on Alpha 5 when I release it. You can download it here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1727680.
That is just a short (believe me when I say it's short) explanation as to why ICS is just a FUN FUN FUN thing to work with.
Personal Problems (I have a lot): This is not meant to be a whine-a-thon, more of an explanation of why I can't be as dedicated as I'd like to be. I have explained why ICS is a pain, I'm here to give you a brief rundown as to why I (personally) can't just make things work. I am a student studying Aerospace Engineering (not Computer Science or whatever else). It has kept me so insanely busy that I can't even begin to describe how much little time I have. I spend all day at school and all night doing the homework for it. I was lucky (once) when my Flight Structures II homework only took 5 hours to do. With so many long homework assignments and group projects it's a miracle I even survive. Next semester will be worse because now I have to actually design and build a model plane from scratch that does whatever my professors says it has to do. This is includes the whole design, approval process, building, testing, breaking, fixing, getting approved again, get it flown, doing it's mission and presenting our project. All that on top of the homework I have to do.
Whenever I do get free time during the day, I try to spend it with my girlfriend and/or friends or (if it's a few days) I go to visit my family (this weekend I am, for example). Family and friends have always a top priority of mine since forever and I won't let a phone be the reason why I don't see them IF I see them. In fact the donation money you guys have supported me with is going to get new tires for my car before I go visit my family. It has also bought me spare batteries and cables for when I really mess things up.
After all this is said and done, I stay up to 4 am working on the phone so that you guys can have a semi-legitimate Android experience. I do it because I want to and because we as a community deserve it.
It saddens me to know that I'm (essentially) the only one left working on the X2. Others pop their head in every once and awhile to help or to do what they want and that is GREAT. I love it. I'm always more than willing to help others out if they ask. And all they have to do is ask. PM me here on XDA, join me in the IRC or tweet me on Twitter. I'll be sure to get to it eventually.
TL;DR:
CM9/ICS will be unstable for as long as I can see in the future. There is not much I can do.
No I won't enable soft keys, there is no point in a default build. See the post if you wish to enable them.
I'm a really, really busy man but I do what I can. You guys have helped tremendously in supporting my work and helping me live a little easier
Thanks for the explanation. At this point I guess all we can do is hope that someone at Motorola feels sorry for us and leaks us some goodies. I bet with the unlocked goodness ICS would scream on this phone, even with it's less-than-optimal amount of RAM.
I just want to personally thank you for everything you have done with this phone. I still use CM7 as my daily driver and love it despite the Wifi and the root issues and will continue to use it until I say F you to Motorola and get a different phone a little more dev friendly.
You are doing a great job keeping the DX2 afloat. If you can get ICS in this phone you'll have a very bright future ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck but I don't think you need it
I don't know anything about developing, modding or themes and I won't imagine how hard it must be to do what you have done for the DX2. For that and more: Thank You! Im sure we'll be happy to throw a dollar or two your way.. it's the least we can do. :good:
M-
question
you say no tegra2 has i c s
what about xoom?
was just asking in case that could give you done ideas
good luck DZK, keep killing it
I'm glad you came out with this post. I have had this phone since last summer like you and since then I have used both of your ROMs and have followed your work. Mainly because there are not very many developers still developing for this phone. Lol. I think a lot of people needed to hear this. you don't come in here that much and are not very active in the forums. Not that it's your fault or anything. we all know that you're busy. But people are used to regular updates. Even if they are just verbal ones. So when a dev takes their time and no one hears anything, they don't understand. Most of us in here explain your situation when someone comes in here asking about stuff. We are all grateful for what you have given us so far and the things that are coming down the road. Without you there would be no development for this phone. As much as everyone would like to believe, we all know you are not just some guy sitting behind a desk all day working for us. By the sound of it, it looks like school is going to be getting a lot more busy for you which means less updates for us. By the time you get around to developing again for this phone I may have moved on to another. Just want to say again. Thanks :good:
also just wanted to add that I'm surprised you felt the need to explain yourself, pretty stand up thing to do,
i would HOPE no one gives you guff for having a real life with , priorities, but then again this is x d a haha
this is something you do for fun, we all should realize that, and it's awesome that you have gotten as far as you have
keep plugging away bro (at real life)
ashclepdia said:
also just wanted to add that I'm surprised you felt the need to explain yourself, pretty stand up thing to do,
i would HOPE no one gives you guff for having a real life with , priorities, but then again this is x d a haha
this is something you do for fun, we all should realize that, and it's awesome that you have gotten as far as you have
keep plugging away bro (at real life)
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I would think this is more for the newcomers here that don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Have you SEEN the kind of things people ask him on twitter? Lol
+1
ashclepdia said:
also just wanted to add that I'm surprised you felt the need to explain yourself, pretty stand up thing to do,
i would HOPE no one gives you guff for having a real life with , priorities, but then again this is x d a haha
this is something you do for fun, we all should realize that, and it's awesome that you have gotten as far as you have
keep plugging away bro (at real life)
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Sent from my DROID X2 using xda app-developers app
I'm not a dev, but I am a project manager who works very closely with them, on very large scale deployments. Something that has always impressed me about you Bryan, is your prioritization and time management. Knowing where to focus energy in order to achieve maximum result, especially when strapped with limited resources, is a skill not as common as one might think--you've got it in spades.
I guarantee when you enter the work force, it's going to be something that sets you apart from a group of otherwise smart guys. Project managers and directors will LOVE you for that skill set.
That being said, thanks for giving us a portion of a sorely needed resource, it's appreciated.
DK you are the man! Thanks for everything!!! You and nitro saved the x2 without you two the x2 would be crap! Family is always first. Good luck with everything!
---------- Post added at 02:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 AM ----------
ashclepdia said:
also just wanted to add that I'm surprised you felt the need to explain yourself, pretty stand up thing to do,
i would HOPE no one gives you guff for having a real life with , priorities, but then again this is x d a haha
this is something you do for fun, we all should realize that, and it's awesome that you have gotten as far as you have
keep plugging away bro (at real life)
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Click to collapse
+1000
Edit: I can't believe the asterisks...lol
**** whoever said what, ungrateful bastard!
Life first, just include Android in it
You are the miracle maker dragonzkiller, if anyone ever says less keep your head high and **** em...never a need to explain.
Keep doing what your doing, it rocks!!!
Ps sorry bout the language, it's a Jersey thing...lol
DROID DOES, Apple did...like I forgot when
I'm with the others, it's always nice to hear what's what, but you should never have felt it any kind of explanation was owed to us.
Even if you suddenly had to put it all to the side permanently, you'll always have my gratitude.
Droid X2 > Eclipse 2.2.1 > Tapatalk
Cheers DZK!! Thanks for your time which is not owed to anyone. Side projects are good esp. when going into difficult job fields. The distractions are going to be what keeps you going. Best of luck to you!
I do wonder now though if it makes more sense to continue to tweak CM7 than CM9.
jsgraphicart said:
I would think this is more for the newcomers here that don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Have you SEEN the kind of things people ask him on twitter? Lol
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i don't think i HAVE seen what is said to him in twitter...Hope it ain't some crazy crap
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hey just want to stop in and say thanks for the work you do on this phone. And I agree with the what others have said you don't owe us anything we are just greatful with what ever time we can steal from you.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app
Look, thanks every and as such. For those of you who think that I have to explain myself, I pretty much do. A lot of you guys know the basics behind what it is I'm dealing with, but don't KNOW. If that makes any sense. I really enjoy working on this device and working with the community. I know it seems like I might get snappy sometimes or I'm short with my answers, but please just keep in mind that I have a lot of things on my plate and that I mean well.
Someone pointed out that the XOOM is running a Tegra 2. I did forget that fact, however even with that being the case, it has helped us very little in our endeavors. In fact it's still on 2.6.35 if I remember correctly and the props are still designed with that in mind. However it is still an updated kernel to work with ICS and such still causes some problems.
DZK, man I appreciate all your efforts! I don' t have the plate you do to deal with but I can surely understand where you are coming from.
I do believe that the majority of the community appreciates tremendously what you do for us, and the ones that can't be patient and understand well they can just flip off!
Thanks man!
Dragonzkiller you have done so much for this community and our X2. Would you be interested in a 2 month old PERFECT condition Dinc2? At least you would get a phone with official ICS and it actually already does since UKB is using the official kernel from the China released OTA. Its a great phone with great battery life just a smaller screen. You have done so much for us I would be happy to hook you up with a great deal. One I won't be able to tell my wife about lol
DZK, I too am an engineering student currently, and I fully understand what you are/will be dealing with. Free time is something we engineering students don't have the luxury to afford
With that being said, I truly appreciate what you have done in the development of this phone and how much time you have devoted to doing so. Keep your head high and let the haters hate.
Travisdroidx2 said:
Dragonzkiller you have done so much for this community and our X2. Would you be interested in a 2 month old PERFECT condition Dinc2? At least you would get a phone with official ICS and it actually already does since UKB is using the official kernel from the China released OTA. Its a great phone with great battery life just a smaller screen. You have done so much for us I would be happy to hook you up with a great deal. One I won't be able to tell my wife about lol
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HEY!!! I see what you're trying to do! Quit trying to kang our dev for the Dinc2 community!!!
Language warning! Don't open in front of boss or kids!
http://i.imgur.com/dWZMF.jpg
Ok so I have lurked for a long time on the forums, commented here and there. I felt compelled to write this today because lately I have seen a lot of posts complaining that we don't have any working ROM's and several issues that are making people turn away from this great device. Let me start by saying that I work in the IT industry and tinkering with things that are not 100% functional in order to make them into something reliable comes second nature, it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I took something that was almost functional and turned it into something Amazing. I don't like to ask, I prefer to search on my own. The reason being that once I do fix it I have a better understanding of what needs to be done in order to make things work and makes the phone that much more enjoyable. The Dev's that work on this phone obviously have better things to do than work on a phone all day, and they are kind enough to provide us with something of a canvas which we than can turn into an expression of ourselves (cheesy I know) no they will not be perfect but they are damn close for me. Is this phone flawed, yes it is, would I like to own the latest and greatest piece of hardware out there (SGS3) of course. But at the moment with my wife in school and a 3 year old I am lucky to have the Amaze so believe me I will do anything to make it work, but it takes effort from the end user. Once you root your device it's an uphill battle every day a different Rom, kernel, permission that need to be set apps that need to be pushed, features that need to be added, themes that need to be flashed. But this is the beauty of Android that you can make it what you want and you can go as far as you are willing with it. Either way glad I could get this off my chest, have fun and flash away.
yespinosa said:
Ok so I have lurked for a long time on the forums, commented here and there. I felt compelled to write this today because lately I have seen a lot of posts complaining that we don't have any working ROM's and several issues that are making people turn away from this great device. Let me start by saying that I work in the IT industry and tinkering with things that are not 100% functional in order to make them into something reliable comes second nature, it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I took something that was almost functional and turned it into something Amazing. I don't like to ask, I prefer to search on my own. The reason being that once I do fix it I have a better understanding of what needs to be done in order to make things work and makes the phone that much more enjoyable. The Dev's that work on this phone obviously have better things to do than work on a phone all day, and they are kind enough to provide us with something of a canvas which we than can turn into an expression of ourselves (cheesy I know) no they will not be perfect but they are damn close for me. Is this phone flawed, yes it is, would I like to own the latest and greatest piece of hardware out there (SGS3) of course. But at the moment with my wife in school and a 3 year old I am lucky to have the Amaze so believe me I will do anything to make it work, but it takes effort from the end user. Once you root your device it's an uphill battle every day a different Rom, kernel, permission that need to be set apps that need to be pushed, features that need to be added, themes that need to be flashed. But this is the beauty of Android that you can make it what you want and you can go as far as you are willing with it. Either way glad I could get this off my chest, have fun and flash away.[/QUOT
Amen!
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yespinosa said:
Ok so I have lurked for a long time on the forums, commented here and there. I felt compelled to write this today because lately I have seen a lot of posts complaining that we don't have any working ROM's and several issues that are making people turn away from this great device. Let me start by saying that I work in the IT industry and tinkering with things that are not 100% functional in order to make them into something reliable comes second nature, it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I took something that was almost functional and turned it into something Amazing. I don't like to ask, I prefer to search on my own. The reason being that once I do fix it I have a better understanding of what needs to be done in order to make things work and makes the phone that much more enjoyable. The Dev's that work on this phone obviously have better things to do than work on a phone all day, and they are kind enough to provide us with something of a canvas which we than can turn into an expression of ourselves (cheesy I know) no they will not be perfect but they are damn close for me. Is this phone flawed, yes it is, would I like to own the latest and greatest piece of hardware out there (SGS3) of course. But at the moment with my wife in school and a 3 year old I am lucky to have the Amaze so believe me I will do anything to make it work, but it takes effort from the end user. Once you root your device it's an uphill battle every day a different Rom, kernel, permission that need to be set apps that need to be pushed, features that need to be added, themes that need to be flashed. But this is the beauty of Android that you can make it what you want and you can go as far as you are willing with it. Either way glad I could get this off my chest, have fun and flash away.
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Well stated.:thumbup:
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Didn't we go to different schools together?...Coffee Bean!
Sent from my HTC One X, using XDA Premium.
BRAVO...someone who get's it!!! I hate getting emails that always have the following in response to a suscribed thread...
"Does data work yet, how long does it take to boot, how do I install this, why did GlacierGuy get rid of his Amaze "
It makes no sense on a 10-inch tablet.
Frankly, the navbar should be on the side, because that's how you hold it in both portrait and landscape. But at least with the old TabletUI, it was in the corner, which is sort-of to-the-side. Phablet UI on a huge 10-inch tablet just makes no sense to me.
It works just fine for me. Heck, i even used the tablet UI when i had AOKP on it, didn't see the hype, went back to phablet. Same with pie controls.
Everyone likes everything. Any change made is always going to please one and displease another.
---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ----------
It works just fine for me. Heck, i even used the tablet UI when i had AOKP on it, didn't see the hype, went back to phablet. Same with pie controls.
Everyone likes everything. Any change made is always going to please one and displease another.
fredryk said:
Phablet UI on a huge 10-inch tablet just makes no sense to me.
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They did this to unify the Android experience. I think this was an important step. With KitKat, every app can hide the navbar if need be. I think this is a good compromise, at least in the long run.
(The N10 has this feature too, right?)
philosopher09 said:
They did this to unify the Android experience. I think this was an important step. With KitKat, every app can hide the navbar if need be. I think this is a good compromise, at least in the long run.
(The N10 has this feature too, right?)
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I hate not havind tablet UI. I find Phablet mode annoying. It is one of the biggest reasons I root and mod, then I can custom my UI the way I like. If google were run with half a brain they would understand the importance of being able to customize the user experience but they have proven their inability to manage responsibility just with their lack of announcements allowing potential customers to plan ahead, so I expect ignorance on a colossal scale when dealing with any sort of reliability or customer service issues when it comes to this giant waste of potential we call Google.
philosopher09 said:
They did this to unify the Android experience. I think this was an important step. With KitKat, every app can hide the navbar if need be. I think this is a good compromise, at least in the long run.
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It they want to better unify the Android experience I wish they would do it by adding features to the phone (auto rotate quick setting, option to select the channel when using the volume buttons) instead of taking useful things away from the tablet!
In my opinion, the only thing potentially out of place is the nav bar buttons positions. Being in the centre makes it a bit hard to reach if you are holding your tablet with both hands. Which is why I have the ability to reposition the buttons in my custom ROM... other than that, I love the unified UI... I always hated the old tablet UI...
When i had Xoom on 4.1.2 I couldn't wait to get the phablet mode that was introduced in 4.2. When I got it in my hands I really liked it, specially the two notification bars (one for notifications and one for settings). Then I got Nexus 10 and never willed to have the tablet UI back, as I really enjoyed this one. However the only thing that I really disliked in KitKat update was the settings app! I think it's important to unify android now, as we're talking about many devices worldwide, but leave tablet stuff for tablets and phone stuff for phones!
If you don't like the UI you can flash a custom ROM and bring it back I believe.
sad news for many...
A lot of people on a Google+ Paranoid Android thread upset about this.
conan1600 said:
I hate not havind tablet UI. I find Phablet mode annoying. It is one of the biggest reasons I root and mod, then I can custom my UI the way I like. If google were run with half a brain they would understand the importance of being able to customize the user experience but they have proven their inability to manage responsibility just with their lack of announcements allowing potential customers to plan ahead, so I expect ignorance on a colossal scale when dealing with any sort of reliability or customer service issues when it comes to this giant waste of potential we call Google.
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I can't agree with much of this. If it was as you say then you would not be able to ever modify anything. The reason you were able to root and do your modifications is because Google does listen and releases source code for android. They could keep it closed. Then people could kiss their Roms goodbye. People that modify, root, and change their phones are still in the minority. Sure if you come here it will seem like everyone does, but in truth we are a small minority. My son is the only person besides myself that I personally know that roots. So what Google is trying to do is create a uniform look and experience. They are trying to get developers to follow the model. Android is still basically new, but has come a long way. If they get enough requests they may bring the feature back. But if not, I am sure it will continue to evolve.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4
a heads-up would be respectful...
It's hard to disagree with conan1600's suggestion that some type of changelog prior to upgrades would be extremely helpful.
Bigralphn said:
I can't agree with much of this. If it was as you say then you would not be able to ever modify anything. The reason you were able to root and do your modifications is because Google does listen and releases source code for android. They could keep it closed. Then people could kiss their Roms goodbye. People that modify, root, and change their phones are still in the minority. Sure if you come here it will seem like everyone does, but in truth we are a small minority. My son is the only person besides myself that I personally know that roots. So what Google is trying to do is create a uniform look and experience. They are trying to get developers to follow the model. Android is still basically new, but has come a long way. If they get enough requests they may bring the feature back. But if not, I am sure it will continue to evolve.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4
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Simply by taking options away invalidated your beliefs. That I can modify my tablet is not an issue regardles of google. All locked bootloader tablets are eventually broken. But Google makes you do it this way. Add features and make defaults but NEVER take features people like. Also it wouldn't be hard for google to easily say, hey guys we are going to refresh this or that device, or we are not would show common courtesy. Google or most other big brands know nothing of customer appreciation.
Apple and Microsoft frequently remove features when they upgrade. In fact I have seldom seen any Of that doesn't remove something in an upgrade. Sometimes they are added back, but more often than not it never is. There are always people that are upset when this happens but they hope that most are happy with what they have improved or added. Windows does this over and over. There are things I miss also in this version. One is tablet mode. But for me it is not a deal breaker. And yes, unlocking a device allows you to modify the device, but if the Operating System can't be modified like Google allows by providing AOSP then all your tweaks can't happen. Android is to phones like Linux is to PC. Apple and Microsoft do not allow the flexibility. I understand your frustration, we all hate losing things we use. Like I said, I am not real happy about losing tablet mode. I just do not think Google is terrible like you say. I see steady performance improvement and a desire to added useful features. Are they perfect? Hardly, but they are trying.
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---------- Post added at 05:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 AM ----------
Bigralphn said:
Apple and Microsoft frequently remove features when they upgrade. In fact I have seldom seen any Of that doesn't remove something in an upgrade. Sometimes they are added back, but more often than not it never is. There are always people that are upset when this happens but they hope that most are happy with what they have improved or added. Windows does this over and over. There are things I miss also in this version. One is tablet mode. But for me it is not a deal breaker. And yes, unlocking a device allows you to modify the device, but if the Operating System can't be modified like Google allows by providing AOSP then all your tweaks can't happen. Android is to phones like Linux is to PC. Apple and Microsoft do not allow the flexibility. I understand your frustration, we all hate losing things we use. Like I said, I am not real happy about losing tablet mode. I just do not think Google is terrible like you say. I see steady performance improvement and a desire to added useful features. Are they perfect? Hardly, but they are trying.
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I also wanted to add that Google didn't decide what devices get updated. In fact Kitkat was specifically designed so more device could handle updates. It is the carrier/device manufacturer that decides that. Google sends them the updated system then it is up to them to modify source and prepare it for the device. Luckily we have some great ROM makers who are capable of doing this themselves.
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openness...
The Open Source Project was a brilliant business decision which has been hugely successful in accomplishing what Google has referred to as ''our most important goal... widespread adoption of the software....'' They go on to say, ''Openness is vital to the long-term success of a platform, since openness is required to attract investment from developers.... to make sure there would always be an open platform available for carriers, OEMs, and developers to use to make their innovative ideas a reality.''
Has Android succeeded at attracting the creativity of developers? For sure. And I'm glad they have... Android is awesome that way! But let's not forget that Android's openess was born of a business decision, to attract not only developers but end-users as well.
Google: ''We also wanted to make sure there was no central point of failure, so no single industry player could restrict or control the innovations of any other.''
I'd like that to include allowing Paranoid Android to continue using Tablet UI to give us a more tablet-friendly environment... and, for that matter, CM to be free to introduce MultiWindows without facing a dictator's wrath. CM's MultiWindows would be kick-ass on the Nexus 10!
conan1600 said:
...Add features and make defaults but NEVER take features people like. Also it wouldn't be hard for google to easily say, hey guys we are going to refresh this or that device, or we are not would show common courtesy. Google or most other big brands know nothing of customer appreciation.
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It's encouraging to see Google emphasize tablet apps more in the Play Store, but discouraging to see them de-emphasize tablets in Android itself... especially when it's a surprise. Google could be a lot more 'open' about what they've done... at the time they release Android updates.
I assume, conan1600, when you talk about Google refreshing devices, you're talking about it's own Nexus brand. I guess that's kind of obvious since this is a Nexus thread. Also, I read you as wanting to hold Google to its own standards of openness, not to the low bar set by Microsoft and Apple.
If I understand you right, it's not enough to say there are worse tyrants... we love Android precisely because it promises freedom from tyranny.
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
'The people of Spain in the 1930s would have taken no solace in hearing that Franco wasn't as bad as Mussolini or Hitler.'
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
fredryk said:
It makes no sense on a 10-inch tablet.
Frankly, the navbar should be on the side, because that's how you hold it in both portrait and landscape. But at least with the old TabletUI, it was in the corner, which is sort-of to-the-side. Phablet UI on a huge 10-inch tablet just makes no sense to me.
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conan1600 said:
I hate not havind tablet UI. I find Phablet mode annoying. It is one of the biggest reasons I root and mod, then I can custom my UI the way I like. If google were run with half a brain they would understand the importance of being able to customize the user experience but they have proven their inability to manage responsibility just with their lack of announcements allowing potential customers to plan ahead, so I expect ignorance on a colossal scale when dealing with any sort of reliability or customer service issues when it comes to this giant waste of potential we call Google.
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I could not agree more.
Found this while searching for tabletui options for the nexus 7.
I guess this is it with android. By moving everything to closed source and removing features like tabletui, Google is showing itself to be just as bad, if not worse than others.
With baytrail win8 tablets landing, I would say this might be a costly mistake for Google.
I love my android phone, but if Google declared war on tablets, then I will leave ... And it looks like I won't be the only one.
midnite_blue said:
I assume, conan1600, when you talk about Google refreshing devices, you're talking about it's own Nexus brand. I guess that's kind of obvious since this is a Nexus thread. Also, I read you as wanting to hold Google to its own standards of openness, not to the low bar set by Microsoft and Apple.
If I understand you right, it's not enough to say there are worse tyrants... we love Android precisely because it promises freedom from tyranny.
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
'The people of Spain in the 1930s would have taken no solace in hearing that Franco wasn't as bad as Mussolini or Hitler.'
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
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This goes far beyond simple decisions such as tablet UI. It is the demeanor of Google in taking Tablet UI that does show their direction of thinking though. Android was freedom, it was different than cookie cutter icrap.
Yes I am talking about nexus. It makes no sence whatsoever to refrain from at least making loyal customers aware if they should continue to wait on our chosen favorite devices. However I do not consider this high standards at all but simple common sense. By being so introverted they have driven me and several loyal nexus fans into the arms of others on both the 7 and 10 inch lines. Its not specs or trade secrets we are looking for but simply is there going to be another one or should I look elsewhere. But so many companies have become so large and powerful they dont even care about pissing a few thousand off with rudeness. And then there are the fan boys who defend bad business practices. Secrecy is one thing. Stupidity is another.
I came to android because I felt trapped by Apple and Itunes. As you can see by my sig I like android, and those are just the devices I personally used. This household has 5 times that many devices. Lately though I see Google forcing Google plus on me, i see google messing up youtube comments, I see Google making decisions about a few killobyte lines of code that could easily be defaulted rather than done away with, I see Google being closed mouthed about simple things such as if there will even be a new nexus tablet in a timely manner, and I see Google forgetting why we, the customer, made them great. the first page of a google search is almost entirely adds now. Over all I have been a Google backer, however I find myself pulling away from the monstrosity that I once saw as a bright and more transparent company than Apple or Amazon.
So yes Microsoft is becoming more appealing to me again. At least they had the decency to say, hey we took a butt kicken on surface rt but you can count on us making a surface 2. People knew they would get a refresh and could easily decide if they wanted to wait on it or buy from another company.
I most likely will stay with Android this year but Nexus has lost me simply because of the unreliability of the parent company and its inability to show courtesy. Fortunately other manufacturers of Android tablets are as yet not so crazy.
Another great invention by Matias Duarte?
Like the non rotating portrait UI on the Nexus 7...
I think the guy should really GTFO.
Cholo981 said:
Another great invention by Matias Duarte?
Like the non rotating portrait UI on the Nexus 7...
I think the guy should really GTFO.
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Yes I miss the days of how fast, beautiful, and functional GIngerbread was. Come on man.
Greg Tolan said:
Yes I miss the days of how fast, beautiful, and functional GIngerbread was. Come on man.
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Dude, we are basically coming back to gingerbread, without the tablet UI...
Everything come after ICS in terms of interface, was worst. IMHO.
They wanted the experience to be the same across all of their devices. I personally prefer the tablet UI on a ten inch screen, but whatcha gonna do? Still beats a physical home button!
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Cholo981 said:
Dude, we are basically coming back to gingerbread, without the tablet UI...
Everything come after ICS in terms of interface, was worst. IMHO.
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There have been a lot of what people argue are missteps (these generally being wildly up in the air; even the tablet vs. unified layout debate rages on months later), but a wealth of subtler improvements that take us far and beyond Gingerbread. The comparison is juvenile at best, both at an aesthetic level (Holo has been refined significantly since Ice Cream Sandwich, and the new "Cards" style UI is starting to come into favor) and at a performance level (Project Butter and Project Svelte, among other things).
I've been trying to get this device how I wanted it to be ever since I beta tested it, but due to life, law school, and marriage, I have been noticeably absent from the dev community lately. For that I apologize.
As I am concluding my legal studies, I have began revisiting some of my old broken-ish but bootable code from my Lollipop build, and am considering, if enough people are still using this thing, to try and build Nougat.
The chipset is identical to the Galaxy Nexus, as I am sure most people know at this point, and wollac has did one helluva job putting in the work to form a solid base to build upon. Admittedly, this is going to be a moderately-difficult project, bordering on a labor of nostalgia, but if there is enough interest, I will get to work so we can keep using this obsolete bowling ball for another year or two. I still use the KitKat build as an amp and NES emulator.
Let me know what you guys think.
-JM
I'm definitely interested, I would love to be able to use my Q with the original LED functionality
+1 on the LED functionality, but I fear that there aren't many in circulation anymore... Mine is gathering dust underneath the TV, a chromecast does its intended functionality much better :/
I just bought one, and I'm not sure how I can even use it at this point. Are you still considering development of something for the q?
I still have mine literally sitting there until something comes along. I would welcome any development on the Q!
I'll echo the others... I have mine sitting the corner of my office, under the printer waiting and hoping for it to be usable one day. I unfortunately bought mine right after they pulled the plug, not know about it so it has never actually worked! I really just hope to be able see the LEDs and stream music to it, even if just through chromecast. I heard it had a great amp and I have some old quality speakers laying around somewhere.
I'm interested as well. I'd love to be able to use it as a chromecast audio, or something similar. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to use it without a display.
does anyone know how to get the Nexus Q software? Got one without the manuals or software
I am interested. What would be the goal though?
There has to be a limited amount of these in existence and it would be neat to be able to use it for something useful.
Is a Chromecast type device reasonable? I'd use it in my office just as a novelty.
I would love something newer than the 4.4 build on this forum currently, and get some use out of this dustcollector. Personally i would like to just get the amp working, any other functionality I really dont care too much about.
Anything Lollipop or better would be great. I use the Google ADT-1 with stock Lollipop and really like it. Works fine for me. Maybe Kit Kat could be OK but I'm not sure.
I am interested. How do I get started?
I'll give this a +1
I still got mine and been thinking what to do with it... any new development i wouldnt mind trying.
I am interested in the restart as well
I have two and would love to use them.
Hi. I interested in Android 7. Youtube and youtube Music still working on Android 7, so i can build media-center on Q with android 6+.