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Just as the question states. I know the second core will sleep when not needed but say you launch an app, does the second core help load the app? The reason I ask is because I'm curious about the raw speed difference between the atrix and inspire. Now compairing the inspire running at 1.8 and the atrix seemingly stuck at 1 per core (I'm not saying the atrix wont ever be OCed but I'm just talking about what's currently available). I'm just curious if the second core will help the first with tasks. If it doesn't would that make the inspire technically way faster (obviously battery life may be an issue but this isn't a battery compairo)?
Thanks for any insight
I think you should start by knowing that overclocking ARM prroccessors gives little yield.
XOOM at 1.5 ghz scores only 500 better than a non-overclocked xoom on quadrant.
I'm going to try and simplify the answer for you.
Will BOTH cores be used? Maybe. First off, is the app itself optimized for dual core, or does it even need dual core / multithreaded capability.
Secondly, and I think more importantly, what is the rest of the phone doing. So, let's say you fire up your favorite app, the phone is still doing stuff in the background. Maybe it's checking email. Maybe Google Latitude is checking your location and updating. The point is - the other core will still be around to offload this work.
Now, WILL it go to the other core. Maybe. Maybe not. I do work on some big Sun machines, and have seen them use one or two out of 64 cores, even with massive loads and each core being used 100%, it refused to balance the load amongst CPU's.
Hope this helps.
mister_al said:
I'm going to try and simplify the answer for you.
Will BOTH cores be used? Maybe. First off, is the app itself optimized for dual core, or does it even need dual core / multithreaded capability.
Secondly, and I think more importantly, what is the rest of the phone doing. So, let's say you fire up your favorite app, the phone is still doing stuff in the background. Maybe it's checking email. Maybe Google Latitude is checking your location and updating. The point is - the other core will still be around to offload this work.
Now, WILL it go to the other core. Maybe. Maybe not. I do work on some big Sun machines, and have seen them use one or two out of 64 cores, even with massive loads and each core being used 100%, it refused to balance the load amongst CPU's.
Hope this helps.
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Click to collapse
Yea that's exactly like I figured, I was kinda going off Windows/Intel multi core setup. Even after dual+cores have been out for quite some time 95% of programs made still don't use more than one core (Most of those remaining 5% being very CPU intense programs PS, Autocad ect.). But I get what you mean, the one core will be dedicated to what your doing and not sharing cycles with anything else because core 2 is working on whatever pops up. So basically the Atrix might be a little slower at doing things BUT it will always stay the same speed with less/no bog.
Techcruncher said:
I think you should start by knowing that overclocking ARM prroccessors gives little yield.
XOOM at 1.5 ghz scores only 500 better than a non-overclocked xoom on quadrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying Quadrant suck as it does with most phones or OCing the Xoom (and Atrix) wont really do much?
I already built an apk for testing CPU usage on both processors... When I get some free time, I'm going to turn it into a widget... Here's what I noticed:
Because of the current OS and less dual core support for apps, the phone kind of kicks certain tasks into using the 2nd processor. The APK i built reads the '/proc/stat' file and i've noticed that when the 2nd processor is being used it actually shows up in the file as 'cpu1'. However, when it's not being used the 'cpu1' line does not exist and you can default the 2nd processor usage to 0%. It seems like performing core OS tasks (like installing apps) kick the 2nd processor into use, which is what you can expect since froyo supports dual cores.
Like everyone says, I'd expect to see more dual core usage on 2.3/2.4 (whichever motorola gives) and when more apps are designed to kick certain threads onto the 2nd processor.
call me a noob but i gotta ask, just what does the kernals do to the phone thats so special, and all the ghz talk means what. i rooted my device for the teather and customizing, and now i see all this talk of kernal this, overclock that, and different ghz people are getting can someone explain to me what this does for your phone, should i be interested???
popcorn kernals?
the higher your ghz the faster your phone is.
overclocking is making your ghz higher
and kernals is what allows you to overclock(sorta)
lol dude...you should prob. take your time with customization but ghz is in reference to the speed of the processor. So...theoretically the higher the number the better your phone should perform...t, eoretically lol. Note that with a higher ghz value the worse your battery life will be unless the kernel is written really well. Also the kernel is the code that controls the devices hardware. (brain)
The nice thing is that you can generally play with different kernels without having to wipe and redo your phone. Also, if you really want to play with the various kernels out there you should get setcpu from the market. It let's you set your phone to make use of the processor in an over clocked (OC) application but it can also let you under clock your phone when your not using it, such as when the screen is off. This will help you conserve battery life. But be careful, over clocking can lead to over heating and other problems if you''re not careful
sounds very interesting, hmmm. so in the coming months people could create kernals to acheive speeds to challenge dual core phones
the kernels already are challenging dual core phones. The thunderbolt currently has a 2ghz kernel. The motorola atrix is a 1 ghz dual core... Thunderbolt definately rivals it with overclock kernel
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
A "kernel" is the OS layer that sits between the applications and hardware. So, when an application says "light up LED" it eventually goes through the kernel to do this, most likely by a request/system call.
The speed of a CPU is measured in hertz (frequency). So, a 1 Ghz CPU can perform over 1 billion operations in one second. The frequency can be increased (overclocked). When you do so, this can damage the CPU (most likely due to heat). Heat can also cause the CPU to run efficiently. So, if you overclock too high, you COULD end up running slower than if you had just left it at 1 Ghz. Changing the frequency can also hinder stability.
so with it being so dangerous how do u know what kernal to trust and whats a safe limit in hertz, do u stop at 1.5, because 2ghz sounds like pushing it
This thread is so full of misinformation it is comical. To start, higher clock speed does not always result in better performance.
Secondly, everyone has their own preference. The best bet is to find the perfect balance for your needs. For many people, overclocking the CPU is not very beneficial... since the device is already plenty fast at stock 1GHz speeds. A lot of users would rather use custom kernels to make their device more power efficient and use SMARTASS governors and lower voltages.
Mess around with kernels and see what you like the best! (always remember to create a backup before flashing... this allows you to easily revert back if something goes awry).
You mean they're not popcorn kernels?? Lol
bmcclure937 said:
This thread is so full of misinformation it is comical. To start, higher clock speed does not always result in better performance.
Secondly, everyone has their own preference. The best bet is to find the perfect balance for your needs. For many people, overclocking the CPU is not very beneficial... since the device is already plenty fast at stock 1GHz speeds. A lot of users would rather use custom kernels to make their device more power efficient and use SMARTASS governors and lower voltages.
Mess around with kernels and see what you like the best! (always remember to create a backup before flashing... this allows you to easily revert back if something goes awry).
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Click to collapse
Very well written and informative post, thanks brah!
skinien said:
A "kernel" is the OS layer that sits between the applications and hardware. So, when an application says "light up LED" it eventually goes through the kernel to do this, most likely by a request/system call.
The speed of a CPU is measured in hertz (frequency). So, a 1 Ghz CPU can perform over 1 billion operations in one second. The frequency can be increased (overclocked). When you do so, this can damage the CPU (most likely due to heat). Heat can also cause the CPU to run efficiently. So, if you overclock too high, you COULD end up running slower than if you had just left it at 1 Ghz. Changing the frequency can also hinder stability.
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+1 ninja point for correctly saying "over 1 billion"
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
It should be noted that most phones are definitely capable of being overclocked to a reasonable extent.
the majority of kernels we nexus one users play with, is undervolting the and playing with teh voltage tables to maximize standby battery life, at the same time overclocking the high end to improve performance. but really its about lowering voltage to improve battery life.
Hi... I have rooted my Samsung GS2 and payed for the OC app TEGRAK ..
But every time I go over 1400mhz the phone gets very unstable.
It even feezes at 1400 mhz when i use my navigon app...
I have tested it at 1500 mhz.. But reboots in a kind of save mode.,,,
At 1400mhz i runs Quadrant smooth with 4200 in score
And 56 MFLOPS in Linpack
But why is my phone so unstalbe?
But why is my phone so unstalbe?
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Because it's supposed to run at 1.2Ghz.
If every SGS2 was able to run at 1.4Ghz without any issue I guess Samsung would have set them at 1.4Ghz by default (since battery life is obviously the least of their concerns ^^). When CPUs are produced, there's always variations in quality. what usually happens on x86 CPUs is that they're tested, sorted according to their max stable frequency, and then sold under different names and at different prices. For Exynos my guess is that any CPU that fails to pass the 1.2Ghz bar is just ditched, and they keep the others, some of which will work at 1.4Ghz, whereas some won't.
Now if you want to gain more stability, you can always try to increase the voltage, it usually gets more stable as voltage increases, but it also gets hotter (which can cause it to crash, or may even permanently damage the processor).
BlueScreenJunky said:
Because it's supposed to run at 1.2Ghz.
If every SGS2 was able to run at 1.4Ghz without any issue I guess Samsung would have set them at 1.4Ghz by default (since battery life is obviously the least of their concerns ^^). When CPUs are produced, there's always variations in quality. what usually happens on x86 CPUs is that they're tested, sorted according to their max stable frequency, and then sold under different names and at different prices. For Exynos my guess is that any CPU that fails to pass the 1.2Ghz bar is just ditched, and they keep the others, some of which will work at 1.4Ghz, whereas some won't.
Now if you want to gain more stability, you can always try to increase the voltage, it usually gets more stable as voltage increases, but it also gets hotter (which can cause it to crash, or may even permanently damage the processor).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At 1.4ghz the phone will also get hotter and it decreases the lifetime if you run 24/7 at 1.4ghz
Ok.. I know about the x86 cpu's.. But didn't think it was the same in ARM cpu's-
But I see ALOT SGS2 that runs 1800mhz..
I guess that I just have one of the not so OC lilkes...
Overclocking won't always work for everyone at same levels.
I've also seen evidence to suggest that OCing significantly reduces the life of the SGS2. Nobnut had his phone vastly overheating even on stock speeds, and constantly rebooting... He overclocked. A number of others reported similar.
Overclocking is not simple and it is not that you just click on 1400/1500 MHz and you are Overclocked. A lot of things matter here. When we overclock in our Desktops then we have to test it very thoroughly, setting up the right VCore, Bus voltage, Multiplier, checking the stability and temperature etc. etc. Tegrak OC is a nice and simple software to use, but it can't be perfect when you can't set all the settings manually other that just higher the clock rate. Personally I'd always stay with stock speed as incorrect OC could harm my CPU and GPU.
Regards.
If you know anything about overclocking then you'll understand that there are a variety of factors that affect the overclocking of a system. The overclock headroom you get from a processor varies, add to that the variables in component tolerance in the circuit board and you have a huge variety of factors that can limit the maximum frequency that you can overclock your system to.
I'll give you an example using my computers. Click on the images below:
Both processor overclock similarly on using the same components and that was the maximum I could get out of them. Now when I bought an EVGA X58 Classified motherboard and overclocked the Xeon W3520 I got it up to 4704 MHz with less vCore and less CPU VTT. All of this was done with aircooling.
My point is that not all systems will overclock the same even though they share the same model components.
OK I've got mine on normal mode, and this kind of confirms my original thought that the 500mhz 5th core is clocked to low. I find the pad actually speeds up when I have multiple items in my recently run tab! If my understanding of the way it works these programs are still running in the background right? Then it starts kicking in the other 4 and not just running on the 5th at 500mhz! I really think we'd see a speed boost if we can get that 5th core over 500. Yes its supposed to save battery life but I really don't think 500 is fast enough to run on its own. You're thoughts and observations?
markimar said:
OK I've got mine on normal mode, and this kind of confirms my original thought that the 500mhz 5th core is clocked to low. I find the pad actually speeds up when I have multiple items in my recently run tab! If my understanding of the way it works these programs are still running in the background right? Then it starts kicking in the other 4 and not just running on the 5th at 500mhz! I really think we'd see a speed boost if we can get that 5th core over 500. Yes its supposed to save battery life but I really don't think 500 is fast enough to run on its own. You're thoughts and observations?
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Click to collapse
ill check on this when i get home. this issue im assuming is with honeycomb itself. we would assume that ICS would properly use those cores
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II t989
i don't have it yet (mine gets delivered on wed), but what you observed makes perfect sense. Can they change it to run on say an 800 MHZ constant "down" to 500MHZ when doing the most simple tasks? obviously i to do not believe that 500MHZ will be sufficient at all times to do screen scrolling and such on it's own.
I'm really hoping that the few performance issues people are seeing is resolved in firmware updates and a tegra 3 optimized version of ICS. Maybe asus/nvidia needs to do more tweaking to HC before the ICS build is pushed if it will take a while for ICS to arrive to the prime (past january).
The cores are optimized just fine. They kick in when rendering a web page or a game, but go idle and use the 5th core when done. Games always render.
ryan562 said:
ill check on this when i get home. this issue im assuming is with honeycomb itself. we would assume that ICS would properly use those cores
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II t989
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing's changed over HC in the way ICS uses h/w acceleration. And I'd assume apps using h/w acceleration do so via calls to the OS, not to the chip directly. So it appears what you've got is what you're going to get.
---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------
markimar said:
OK I've got mine on normal mode, and this kind of confirms my original thought that the 500mhz 5th core is clocked to low. I find the pad actually speeds up when I have multiple items in my recently run tab! If my understanding of the way it works these programs are still running in the background right? Then it starts kicking in the other 4 and not just running on the 5th at 500mhz! I really think we'd see a speed boost if we can get that 5th core over 500. Yes its supposed to save battery life but I really don't think 500 is fast enough to run on its own. You're thoughts and observations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have Pulse installed? A bunch of people using it were reporting stuttering where their lower powered devices aren't. If you run it at full speed, does it stutter? One of the hypothesis is that it's the core's stepping up and down that's causing the stuttering.
BarryH_GEG said:
Nothing's changed over HC in the way ICS uses h/w acceleration. And I'd assume apps using h/w acceleration do so via calls to the OS, not to the chip directly. So it appears what you've got is what you're going to get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the OS knows about the fifth core? I believe the chip's own scheduler manages the transition between the quad-core and the companion core, not the Android scheduler.
Mithent said:
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the OS knows about the fifth core? I believe the chip's own scheduler manages the transition between the quad-core and the companion core, not the Android scheduler.
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Click to collapse
That's the way I'd guess it would work. I don't think Android addresses different chips differently. I'd assume it's up to the SoC to manage the incoming instructions and react accordingly. If Android was modified for dual-core, I don't think it diffentiates between the different implementations of dual-core chips. Someone with more h/w experience correct me if I'm wrong. Also, does anyone know if the chip manufacturer can add additional API's that developers can write to directly either instead of or in parallel with the OS? I ask because how can a game be optimized for Tegra if to the OS all chips are treated the same?
I tried out the power savings mode for a while.it seemed to perform just fine. Immediate difference is that it lowers the contrast ratio on display. This happens as soon as you press the power savings tab. Screen will look like brightness dropped a bit but if you look closely, you'll see it lowered the contrast ratio. Screen still looks good but not as sharp as in other 2 modes. UI still seems to preform just fine. Plus I think the modes doesn't affect gaming or video playback performance. I read that somewhere, either anandtech or Engadget. When watching vids or playing games, it goes into normal mode. So those things won't be affected no matter what power mode you in, I think..lol
I was thinking of starting a performance mode thread. To see different peoples results and thoughts on different power modes. I read some people post that they just use it in power/battery savings mode. Some keep it in normal all the time. Others in balanced mode. Would be good to see how these different modes perform in real life usage. From user perspective. I've noticed, so far, that In balanced mode, battery drains about 10% an hour. This is with nonstop use including gaming, watching vids, web surfing, etc. now in battery savings mode, it drains even less per hour. I haven't ran normal mode long enough to see how it drains compared to others. One thing though, web surfing drains battery just as fast as gaming.
BarryH_GEG said:
I ask because how can a game be optimized for Tegra if to the OS all chips are treated the same?
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I hate quoting myself but I found the answer on Nvidia's website. Any otimizations are handled through OpenGL. So games written to handle additional calls that Teg2 can support are making those calls through OpenGL with the OS (I'm guessing) used as a pass-through. It would also explain why Tegra optimized games fail on non-Teg devices because they wouldn't be able process the additional requests. So it would appear that Teg optimization isn't being done through the OS. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
BarryH_GEG said:
That's the way I'd guess it would work. I don't think Android addresses different chips differently. I'd assume it's up to the SoC to manage the incoming instructions and react accordingly. If Android was modified for dual-core, I don't think it diffentiates between the different implementations of dual-core chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did some research on it; here's what Nvidia say:
The Android 3.x (Honeycomb) operating system has built-in support for multi-processing and is
capable of leveraging the performance of multiple CPU cores. However, the operating system
assumes that all available CPU cores are of equal performance capability and schedules tasks
to available cores based on this assumption. Therefore, in order to make the management of
the Companion core and main cores totally transparent to the operating system, Kal-El
implements both hardware-based and low level software-based management of the Companion
core and the main quad CPU cores.
Patented hardware and software CPU management logic continuously monitors CPU workload
to automatically and dynamically enable and disable the Companion core and the main CPU
cores. The decision to turn on and off the Companion and main cores is purely based on current
CPU workload levels and the resulting CPU operating frequency recommendations made by the
CPU frequency control subsystem embedded in the operating system kernel. The technology
does not require any application or OS modifications.
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http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...e-for-Low-Power-and-High-Performance-v1.1.pdf
So it uses the existing architecture for CPU power states, but intercepts that at a low level and uses it to control the companion core/quad-core switch?
Edit: I wonder if that means that tinkering with the scheduler/frequency control would allow the point at which the companion core/quad-core switch happens to be altered? If the OP is correct, this might allow the companion core to be utilised less if an increase in "smoothness" was desired, at the cost of some battery life?
Mithent said:
I wonder if that means that tinkering with the scheduler/frequency control would allow the point at which the companion core/quad-core switch happens to be altered? If the OP is correct, this might allow the companion core to be utilised less if an increase in "smoothness" was desired, at the cost of some battery life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what we guessed was right. The OS treats all multi-cores the same and it's up to the chip maker to optimize requests and return them. To your point, what happens between the three processors (1+1x2+1x2) is black-box and controlled by Nvidia. To any SetCPU type program it's just going to show up as a single chip. People have tried in vain to figure how to make the Qualcomm dual-core's act independently so I'd guess Teg3 will end up the same way. And Nvidia won't even publish their drivers so I highly doubt they'll provide any outside hooks to control something as sensitive as the performance of each individual core in what they're marketing as a single chip.
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Do you have Pulse installed? A bunch of people using it were reporting stuttering where their lower powered devices aren't. If you run it at full speed, does it stutter? One of the hypothesis is that it's the core's stepping up and down that's causing the stuttering.[/QUOTE]
I have been running mine in balanced mode, have had pulse installed since day one, no lag or stuttering in anything. games, other apps work fine.
Well my phones when clocked at 500 so I wouldn't be surprised
Sent from my VS910 4G using xda premium
So, I sent back my dead S2 to Samsung for repair. They stated that they changed the motherboard. Now, I find that my battery drains much slower and the CPU seems to run cooler. The back doesn't feel as hot anymore. I'm wondering if there's any apps that can help to identify the CPU?
Strange my phone doesn't get hot, battery doesn't drain fast,
Maybe because I'm not on some custom ROM, kernel with issues..... Lol.
System Tuner Pro gives you various details about the CPU under 'tweaks' like:- cpu implementer, cpu architecture, cpu variant, cpu part, cpu revision, hardware/revision & serial number but these values are in hex so you'd need to find a source for what these values correspond to.