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Seeing how this is a nexus device, there should be proper source release right? But this is Samsung, who have in the past proved to be one of the worst offenders in terms of releasing source. I originally had the note 10.1 but returned due to the terribly laggy software and insanely bad build quality. I'm unwilling to buy another device that lacks developer support, especially from Samsung.
mysystem said:
Seeing how this is a nexus device, there should be proper source release right? But this is Samsung, who have in the past proved to be one of the worst offenders in terms of releasing source. I originally had the note 10.1 but returned due to the terribly laggy software and insanely bad build quality. I'm unwilling to buy another device that lacks developer support, especially from Samsung.
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Forget who makes it, a Nexus runs Googles software and will get direct updates from them. No kies, no waiting
My old n7 got the 4.1.2 update ** the day ** it was released worldwide.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Kernel source is already available at https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/exynos/ . It's going to run Linux 3.4 and the codename is manta.
ben1066 said:
Kernel source is already available at https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/exynos/ . It's going to run Linux 3.4 and the codename is manta.
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Kernel is not enough! Samsung has to release the kernel because the law says so.
I'm with the OP. I have the SGS3 and things look pretty bad with the sources problem.
Even if stock is great many of us like to experience other possibilities, and CM on a tablet would be so sweet.
So yeah. I'm very very very worried about this issue on the nexus 10. My guess is we won't have the sources. Samsung won't release them.
Didn't they release them for the Nexus S? I don't count the Galaxy Nexus since that was a TI/PowerVR SoC.
This is actually a big moment for Samsung. They've got their Exynos processor and drivers on the Google update list which should mean it'll be faster to update all their other devices (at least from what I've read concerning Exynos drivers).
Am I missing something here? The updates come from Google, so the sources will be in the Android source tree.
alias_neo said:
Am I missing something here? The updates come from Google, so the sources will be in the Android source tree.
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This.
All Nexus devices should have source for building the ROM and kernel posted online by Google for people to build from
EniGmA1987 said:
This.
All Nexus devices should have source for building the ROM and kernel posted online by Google for people to build from
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Is that not what I just said? They're in the source tree. If they're not public at the moment, they should be soon after the device is released, just as they have been for all past nexus devices.
The fact that Samsung built the hardware here is irrelevant.
alias_neo said:
Is that not what I just said? They're in the source tree. If they're not public at the moment, they should be soon after the device is released, just as they have been for all past nexus devices.
The fact that Samsung built the hardware here is irrelevant.
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he actually agree with you, not the opposite
I read some posts on G+ and noticed all cyanogen i9300 mainterners complain about samsung sources policy, they release out-dated, imcompatible source code. I want know what samsung have released after Open Exynos petetion.
On originboard.com, I have only found 4x12 sources for ICS, not JB.
They've given is squat. Broken, useless crap which requires a sh*t ton of hackery to even work.
Nothing.
Just like the life left in this beaten horse.
After some research I found something.
Samsung actually released some exynos sources (camera, mali) after petetion, but they are outdated and can't be used with Jelly bean HWA.
We have only extracted pre-built JB HWA, and older sources (probably ICS compatible)
But can ICS sources be updated to support Jelly bean?
At this point of time only mali (OLD), camera (OLD), thermal control, barometer, LED are open-source (I found them on github and originboard.com).
GR0S said:
After some research I found something.
Samsung actually released some exynos sources (camera, mali) after petetion, but they are outdated and can't be used with Jelly bean HWA.
We have only extracted pre-built JB HWA, and older sources (probably ICS compatible)
But can ICS sources be updated to support Jelly bean?
At this point of time only mali (OLD), camera (OLD), thermal control, barometer, LED are open-source (I found them on github and originboard.com).
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They have been analyzed, looked over, poked at, cursed at, burned and hacked by CM team.
I'm pretty sure that the actual quality of 10.1 is very close to as good as it gets (without the damned sources).
Please search and see how this saga has evolved and progressed to. I hold no hope of seeing sources and neither should you or anyone.
If the sources Samsung is throwing out every now and then are so out dated, crappy and bad documented, what the hell do GM, AndreiLux, AndiP and all the other kernel devs work with??
I don't get it.
AW: Exonys jellybean sources
*Exynos
Sent from my GT-I9001 using xda app-developers app
According to the devs, what's really needed is the userspace sources, so until those are released, all this is useless. Samdung is under no obligation to release these, so they probably never will.
harise100 said:
If the sources Samsung is throwing out every now and then are so out dated, crappy and bad documented, what the hell do GM, AndreiLux, AndiP and all the other kernel devs work with??
I don't get it.
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Samsung do release the latest kernel sources because they are legally obligated to. But AOSP ROMs such as CM require more than just working kernels.
XeLLaR* said:
*Exynos
Sent from my GT-I9001 using xda app-developers app
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+1
Mimsy said:
Samsung do release the latest kernel sources because they are legally obligated to. But AOSP ROMs such as CM require more than just working kernels.
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Yeah, codeworkx said that kernel source is always free, but they need userspace
Enviado desde mi Tamagotchi usando Tapatalk
without userspace source development is limited
I am about to buy this phone because it is just so damn good for it's very low price tag, however one thing is bugging me about it. I came here to find that there are no Marshmallow ROMs for it yet and the main reason for me wanting to upgrade my phone in the first place is so that I will be able to run the latest Android ROM's without performance problems. I am currently on CyanogenMod 13 on my old Samsung Galaxy S3 and I like it, but it is slow. The Redmi Note 2 doesn't even have CyanogenMod support.
Is this because Xiaomi are going to release an official MIUI based on Marshmallow? I don't want to buy this phone if it means I am going to be stuck on MIUI or on an older version of Android. I am a bit perplexed because this phone sold a lot so why hasn't anyone made Marshmallow for it yet?
Do you think that development is going to pick up for this device or is this device a bad option if you want to run the latest Google Android (not MIUI)?
Certainly, the RN2 is a lot of hardware for the money, but without source code, things are limited to either repacked/tweaked roms, or roms that are built from source, but have significant hardware functionality imperfections because source is not available. It doesn't seem clear to me whether Xiaomi will release a Marshmallow-based MIUI for the RN2 or not. Some people say yes, some people say no, so until it actually happens (if it ever does), who knows. I also bought the RN2 because it was so much hardware for the price, but I am also disappointed with the lack of CM and similar. This is certainly not for a lack of people not trying, but it seems like certain parts of the hardware will never become functional with CM unless the necessary source code is released. If you don't happen to use these parts of the hardware, well, maybe it doesn't matter. Personally, I have stuck with sMIUI because all the hardware is completely working, but I sure wish a CM version with all working hardware will eventually emerge.
verbage said:
Certainly, the RN2 is a lot of hardware for the money, but without source code, things are limited to either repacked/tweaked roms, or roms that are built from source, but have significant hardware functionality imperfections because source is not available. It doesn't seem clear to me whether Xiaomi will release a Marshmallow-based MIUI for the RN2 or not. Some people say yes, some people say no, so until it actually happens (if it ever does), who knows. I also bought the RN2 because it was so much hardware for the price, but I am also disappointed with the lack of CM and similar. This is certainly not for a lack of people not trying, but it seems like certain parts of the hardware will never become functional with CM unless the necessary source code is released. If you don't happen to use these parts of the hardware, well, maybe it doesn't matter. Personally, I have stuck with sMIUI because all the hardware is completely working, but I sure wish a CM version with all working hardware will eventually emerge.
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Thanks for the explanation. It seems really unfortunate that they haven't released the source. I guess I should either buy the more expensive Mi4 (which I believe the source is released for) or I can just wait it out and see if the source code get's released for the RN2. It seems strange to me that they wouldn't release Marshmallow-based MIUI for such a popular, fairly new phone. I think they will release it. If they release MM-MIUI then will that enable other developers to bring stock Android Marshmallow or CyanogenMod to the RN2?
M will deffo be released for RN2. Main reason we still dont have it is:
a) first "official" device with M is supposed to be mi5
b) MTK prolly didnt polish 6.0 yet
Major companies that use X10 (eg Sony & HTC) didnt realse M for their devices either, at least as far as i know, however they are planned. So yeah M will arrive eventually, which is great, but that doesnt mean custom roms will get any better. And knowing xiaomi, and their kernel release policies, this is pretty much 100%. Pretty sure they still havent released any kernel source for their older MTK powered devices.
I think I'm going to buy the Mi4 rather because its kernel is open. I want to know that I'll be able to get android roms of any new releases. It's a real shame because the Redmi Note 2 is cheaper and a more superior device, but I have read that Mediatek are scumbags when it comes to releasing kernels because they want to force you to buy a new device when your OS becomes outdated which goes against the open source licence of Linux. Oh well, I guess that's business.
rimpy said:
If they release MM-MIUI then will that enable other developers to bring stock Android Marshmallow or CyanogenMod to the RN2?
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If they release MM-MIUI for the RN2, unless they release the source code, this will still mean that roms are cooked/repacked, or built from source, but probably imperfectly due to lack of source. Though MIUI is based on Android, I don't think there are free and open MIUI repositories where one could grab the necessary source code for the RN2.
At this point, like everyone said, it is very unlikely that Xiaomi will ever release the source code for the RN2. Without it, custom ROMs will never be proper, and it's the reason there are no MM builds yet.
However, even though MIUI is horrible and God knows that I hate it, it's quite usable. A version of the Xposed framework that works on the latest MIUI builds has been released a couple of days ago, and with it you can get most of the functionality a custom ROM provides. It's not perfect, and I'd prefer AOSP, but it is, IMO, the best this phone has to offer at the moment.
I only got mine about three months ago, and while there were many times I came to regret my purchase, every other phone in this price range and slightly above has inferior hardware. With that said, if you want a phone running AOSP or something very close to it, you'd be better off getting a Nexus or a device that is officially supported by CM.
Thanks all. I was just about to buy the RN2 but I am glad I posted here first. I've learnt a lot and I don't think I would be happy with a phone that has a closed source kernel. The Mi4 has a smaller screen, no SD slot, slower, and costs more, but its kernel source is released and it is supported by CM13. Still very good value for money so that's gonna be my next phone.
It actually isnt slower. Benchmarks only. If you run them side by side with either MIUI or CM youll see than Mi4 is actually much faster than RN2, so yeah, its a better option if you have the money
Just thought I'd make a thread about discussing the next version of Lineage OS. Lineage OS 15 is going to be out officially for our Axon 7 soon after the source code for Android 8.0 is released.
Haha how do you know that? I doubt that.
If past experience is any indication, I wouldn't expect it until about November.
Delete
OrdenKrieger said:
Haha how do you know that? I doubt that.
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Just from common sense - why wouldn't it be? Lineage is officially maintained for our device. It makes a TON of sense that we would get it as soon as the first official nightly builds of lineage OS 15 starts rolling out.
ethanscooter said:
Just from common sense - why wouldn't it be? Lineage is officially maintained for our device. It makes a TON of sense that we would get it as soon as the first official nightly builds of lineage OS 15 starts rolling out.
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Doesn't mean that there is always some1 to maintain the device.
Edit: BTW I don't think that blogspot pages like http://www.lineageosdownloads.com/lineage-os-15-supported-device-list/ being the best source.
Mod Edit: (non-English comment removed)
请仅用英文发表。谢谢。
Qǐng jǐn yòng yīngwén fābiǎo. Xièxiè.
Please post in English only. Thank you.
ethanscooter said:
Just from common sense - why wouldn't it be? Lineage is officially maintained for our device. It makes a TON of sense that we would get it as soon as the first official nightly builds of lineage OS 15 starts rolling out.
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I don't think you understand how Android development work.
Google has to release the source (done 8-21)
SOC vendor has to adapt and do the BSP (required for this phone -- last time if they upgrade us to Treble support, but unlikely since we also need drivers for the DAC -- otherwise every release)
ZTE has to get that package and adapt it to our specific hardware devices and port of their UI and internal software
ZTE release the kernel source for the compatible version
Then there is the Lineage side
Lineage devs import AOSP
devs port all of the Lineage code and features over to new base
willing dev(s) take our device kernel source and merge over to Lineage and start doing device bring up and bug fixing
device has to be working fully before it's allowed to be called "official" on Lineage
That's a lot of steps. There is no guarantee ZTE will release the necessary support for us to even get LOS 15. Now, since the HW is similar, we might be able to get it from other devices that do (namely the OP3/3T), but that still leaves lots of issues for our more custom hardware (camera and audio). We will probably have unofficial builds that boot not super far in the future after QC release the 820 BSP, but getting the full hardware up will depend on ZTE doing a release.
This should get vastly easier once a device has Treble support (so O-launching devices and newer and the few that get backported) as long as Lineage also supports that feature.
OEM's are now required to provide support for two full yrs
TeutonJon78 said:
I don't think you understand how Android development work.
Google has to release the source (done 8-21)
SOC vendor has to adapt and do the BSP (required for this phone -- last time if they upgrade us to Treble support, but unlikely since we also need drivers for the DAC -- otherwise every release)
ZTE has to get that package and adapt it to our specific hardware devices and port of their UI and internal software
ZTE release the kernel source for the compatible version
Then there is the Lineage side
Lineage devs import AOSP
devs port all of the Lineage code and features over to new base
willing dev(s) take our device kernel source and merge over to Lineage and start doing device bring up and bug fixing
device has to be working fully before it's allowed to be called "official" on Lineage
That's a lot of steps. There is no guarantee ZTE will release the necessary support for us to even get LOS 15. Now, since the HW is similar, we might be able to get it from other devices that do (namely the OP3/3T), but that still leaves lots of issues for our more custom hardware (camera and audio). We will probably have unofficial builds that boot not super far in the future after QC release the 820 BSP, but getting the full hardware up will depend on ZTE doing a release.
This should get vastly easier once a device has Treble support (so O-launching devices and newer and the few that get backported) as long as Lineage also supports that feature.
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You are acting like we don't have aosp working at all. LOS 14 is working great and from there its not nearly as much work as you describe to get LOS 15 working. Yes, in the beginning it did take a lot of work but now that aosp is established, its not nearly as difficult.
Jaredsk74 said:
You are acting like we don't have aosp working at all. LOS 14 is working great and from there its not nearly as much work as you describe to get LOS 15 working. Yes, in the beginning it did take a lot of work but now that aosp is established, its not nearly as difficult.
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It's not about AOSP , you can't build for non Google devices without CAF which hasn't been brought up yet.. It'll be a good month or so
kdp162 said:
OEM's are now required to provide support for two full yrs
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No they are not, it's optional, there is no incentive for them to do so
TeutonJon78 said:
I don't think you understand how Android development work.
Google has to release the source (done 8-21)
SOC vendor has to adapt and do the BSP (required for this phone -- last time if they upgrade us to Treble support, but unlikely since we also need drivers for the DAC -- otherwise every release)
ZTE has to get that package and adapt it to our specific hardware devices and port of their UI and internal software
ZTE release the kernel source for the compatible version
Then there is the Lineage side
Lineage devs import AOSP
devs port all of the Lineage code and features over to new base
willing dev(s) take our device kernel source and merge over to Lineage and start doing device bring up and bug fixing
device has to be working fully before it's allowed to be called "official" on Lineage
That's a lot of steps. There is no guarantee ZTE will release the necessary support for us to even get LOS 15. Now, since the HW is similar, we might be able to get it from other devices that do (namely the OP3/3T), but that still leaves lots of issues for our more custom hardware (camera and audio). We will probably have unofficial builds that boot not super far in the future after QC release the 820 BSP, but getting the full hardware up will depend on ZTE doing a release.
This should get vastly easier once a device has Treble support (so O-launching devices and newer and the few that get backported) as long as Lineage also supports that feature.
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How come my Moto G 2013 still gets newest LOS then? Does that mean that Motorola still does the above things? Not questioning you, just wondering.
Jaredsk74 said:
You are acting like we don't have aosp working at all. LOS 14 is working great and from there its not nearly as much work as you describe to get LOS 15 working. Yes, in the beginning it did take a lot of work but now that aosp is established, its not nearly as difficult.
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You can compile AOSP for just about anything. It's getting ALL the hardware working correctly on a new release that's a problem. Sure, it might boot, but if you don't have audio or accelerated graphics, that's an issue. Once you have a working version from the vendor, then it's a lot simpler than just putting it together before that. And nothing happens if you don't have the drivers from the SoC vendors. That's why Project Treble is such a big deal, because if it works as intended, it will remove the need for those new drivers to get a new version of Android, because the HW abstraction layer will make the older drives work.
Waancho said:
How come my Moto G 2013 still gets newest LOS then? Does that mean that Motorola still does the above things? Not questioning you, just wondering.
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It could be that Motorola is releasing the drivers/SW updates. It really depends on the underlying hardware. If there is another device with the same hardware getting updated, those drivers can be pulled over and incorporated (the A7 has pulled a lot from the OP3). Or there are open source driver versions that could be pulled in.
Our biggest issue is that the audio chip we have isn't really on any/many other devices. So getting fully working drivers for that is a more limiting factor, than a Moto G 2013, which probably doesn't have anything outside of the standard QC SoC stuff.
And in the end, it comes down to the devs keeping stuff up to date. The Galaxy S2 is still running official LOS 14.1, because there are some crazy ass devs out there still getting stuff working on it. The more popular and easy to work a phone is, the more likely it will see longer 3rd party support. Sadly, the A7 is a little limited in both fronts combined with custom HW bits. The devs have done amazing work so far.
Jaredsk74 said:
You are acting like we don't have aosp working at all. LOS 14 is working great and from there its not nearly as much work as you describe to get LOS 15 working. Yes, in the beginning it did take a lot of work but now that aosp is established, its not nearly as difficult.
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I disagree that LOS on 14.x works great. I tried various builds and kernels for about 6 months. I dropped back to a rooted stock since the gpu and audio support was awful. I have a much better experience than I had on LOS or RR. I could barely even use my daydream with it.
therock11 said:
I disagree that LOS on 14.x works great. I tried various builds and kernels for about 6 months. I dropped back to a rooted stock since the gpu and audio support was awful. I have a much better experience than I had on LOS or RR. I could barely even use my daydream with it.
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For gamers and daydream users that could be true.
When it comes to usability, privacy and customizations the LOS based ROMs are the first choice.
The audio issues are just minimal when you combine Dolby Atmos mod with custom rom.
So have you guys taken a look at Ordenkriger's post on the boot up of Lineage 15 with all the progress and what not?
We are getting LOS 15 a.k.a Oreo for our device http://www.lineageosdownloads.com/lineage-os-15-supported-device-list/
Cyberwolf2 said:
We are getting LOS 15 a.k.a Oreo for our device http://www.lineageosdownloads.com/lineage-os-15-supported-device-list/
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That's not an official source
bkores said:
That's not an official source
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Ordenkrieger and Unjustified Dev think's otherwise..https://forum.xda-developers.com/axon-7/how-to/oh-lineageos-15-t3668956
Motorola finally releases Oreo Kernal source code..
https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityLLC/kernel-msm/releases/tag/MMI-OPW27.57-40
Expect some goodies today :victory:
It's GREAT to see some action on this. I haven't unlocked my bootloader yet, but between Magisk and a kernel, I'm very tempted. Many thanks to this great community!
Does this mean that quality of roms for the x4 in the future will be on the same level as phones that have Project Treble,
or will the Quality of roms on treble. enabled phones likely still have significantly less bugs?
I'm asking because i wonder if its worth selling the moto x4 to buy a treble enabled phone.
i dont really care about having the newest android version, i just want to have security updates every few months after motorola has pulled the plug on official support.
pietpietersen said:
Does this mean that quality of roms for the x4 in the future will be on the same level as phones that have Project Treble,
or will the Quality of roms on treble. enabled phones likely still have significantly less bugs?
I'm asking because i wonder if its worth selling the moto x4 to buy a treble enabled phone.
i dont really care about having the newest android version, i just want to have security updates every few months after motorola has pulled the plug on official support.
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i really doubt 6gb version is having treble.
kraatus90 said:
i really doubt 6gb version is having treble.
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Phones that come out on Oreo, must have treble according to Google's new policies.
But the question I posed was, if treble is really all that important.
If the community has the oreo kernel source codes like the ones above, isn't it possible to continue to provide security updates for this phone without making the phone become buggy? (Which is often the case when one runs something like LineageOS if i'm not mistaken)
pietpietersen said:
Phones that come out on Oreo, must have treble according to Google's new policies.
But the question I posed was, if treble is really all that important.
If the community has the oreo kernel source codes like the ones above, isn't it possible to continue to provide security updates for this phone without making the phone become buggy? (Which is often the case when one runs something like LineageOS if i'm not mistaken)
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But the phone didn't really launch with oreo, it's upgrade has oreo out of the box. i'm pretty sure Motorola will find a way to dodge the bullet here.
Anyway, about security updates, nobody can say for sure. we don't even have 100% fully featured twrp yet. roms are long shot. with kernel source you can have latest security updates that are kernel side only. rom side fixes/updates cannot be done by kernel. hope that helps.
Oh, I thought that the Treble thing was already confirmed. Bummer