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Hello fellow members.
As a mod to this Forum, i have opened this thread to address issues faced by the users related to this sub-forum. No problems related to the device will be entertained in this thread.
all users are requested to put forward their issues in this thread and i shall look into it and do the best to put away with ne such issues.
cheers.
Currently I am going through each and every post of the android development sub-sub-forum..
i think i have to delete many posts and clean up a lot of the threads.
i'll do that as soon as i m over with going through the forum..
cvchetan said:
Currently I am going through each and every post of the android development sub-sub-forum..
i think i have to delete many posts and clean up a lot of the threads.
i'll do that as soon as i m over with going through the forum..
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Hi cvchetan,
to my opinion this is a not needed Sisyphean task.
You'd have to clean thousands of useless posts and flame wars.
The main Problem is, that there are lots of users that start threads again and again without using the forums search.
And: Some People cross post in wrong threads so that the threads go off topic very soon.
Also flaming and swearing against some people is a main problem.
(That's why most X10-Root-Devs gone private).
I'd say: from now, keeping the eyes open and moderate here and there, as you began recently, would be enough to keep this Kindergarten under control...
McKebapp said:
Hi cvchetan,
to my opinion this is a not needed Sisyphean task.
You'd have to clean thousands of useless posts and flame wars.
The main Problem is, that there are lots of users that start threads again and again without using the forums search.
And: Some People cross post in wrong threads so that the threads go off topic very soon.
Also flaming and swearing against some people is a main problem.
(That's why most X10-Root-Devs gone private).
I'd say: from now, keeping the eyes open and moderate here and there, as you began recently, would be enough to keep this Kindergarten under control...
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wel that is indeed a good idea...
but then we need to remove unwanted posts and threads so tht the threads become useful to any new members or visitors as they do not have to read through all unwanted data..
cvchetan said:
wel that is indeed a good idea...
but then we need to remove unwanted posts and threads so tht the threads become useful to any new members or visitors as they do not have to read through all unwanted data..
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What about just making the most useful one sticky, clean the waste out of them and close them?
So this ones would be the reference.
Within first post could a link to a discussion thread.
This behavior works very well over at gsmfreeboard.com .
My Idea: put all good guides into an own sub category "Guides".
These Guides should be closed. If there are any increments, these Posts / Threads could be opened for a short period of time.
They can be edited by the thread starter / poster anyways.
Then there should be a second sub category "Discussion on Guides", where common users can ask everything, regarding the posts.
I have a suggestion for a new sub-forum. Something along the lines of "X10 Café" where the discussions could be informal for more general ramblings about the X10. I hesitate to call it off-topic since the topic would be the X10. Think of it like a free-for-all with general decency rules, no flaming, no personal attacks but an otherwise open place where we can air grievances or just toss around ideas.
That way general can be more about news, events and so on while the speculation and what have you goes on in the Café. It would make keeping up with the forum a lot easier since it should be a place that you don't really "have" to read.
well i like both the ideas..
lemme consult with my fellow mods for futher actions..
Maybe you can stick a link to the Wiki X10 Page and edit this Wiki page to add links to useful posts in the forum ?
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=SonyEricssonXperiaX10
imo this forums needs some temp/permanent banning, plain and simple. I read threads here every day since I have the x10, and I have to agree with many people here, some users just don't understand patience, don't understand how to use the search options and then they have to cry out loud for something they want now but they cannot provide any help so they keep posting useless replies in every 'used to be' useful threads.
The 'Café' kind of forum is a nice idea too, to me it sounds a lot like the general discussion forum but still, the mods should do anything to keep the good discussions going.
Going back to the dark lurking around, WAITING for the good stuff without acting like a 12yo, and I'll give some money for the hard work, whatever i can give, until then keep up the good work guys
I started reading on XDA since 2 weeks when I bought my first droid phone (the X10 obviously ). This is my first post though because for every question I had i was able to find the answer in the forums.
The real PITA was when I started reading the rooting and custom rom dev threads where seriously 80% of the posters are either off topic, flaming or simply asking questions that already have been asked AND answered earlier.
As previous poster said I wouldn't mind that mods would apply temp bans to flamers and off topic poster or even perm bans when people continue to do so.
I did read in another x10 subforum that there was a X10 mod appointed (dunno if there are more than one), but unfortunately haven't seen much of that person specifically on those rooting and rom dev threads where they would have been most wanted.
It is nice to see that you are now taking the time to get something constructive going on. Regarding current topics it probably will be too much effort cleaning those up so it might be better to simply close those topics, start new ones and apply some stricter modding on those (including the temp/perm bans).
I sure would love to see the x10 devs coming back to these forums to discuss there progress on the X10 rooting for example, but they won't unless something is really done against these unnecesarry flaming/off topic/unnecesarry questions posts.
Regards,
Stephan
PS as soon as I have something in my paypal account again I will donate something towards this forum for the good work you guys are doing
we are too many, so dont blame anybody... things are like they're
FRiKiNFRoG said:
imo this forums needs some temp/permanent banning, plain and simple. I read threads here every day since I have the x10, and I have to agree with many people here, some users just don't understand patience, don't understand how to use the search options and then they have to cry out loud for something they want now but they cannot provide any help so they keep posting useless replies in every 'used to be' useful threads.
The 'Café' kind of forum is a nice idea too, to me it sounds a lot like the general discussion forum but still, the mods should do anything to keep the good discussions going.
Going back to the dark lurking around, WAITING for the good stuff without acting like a 12yo, and I'll give some money for the hard work, whatever i can give, until then keep up the good work guys
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+1 here also i feel that you are talking about me
guys.. what i see here is that you people are posting suggestions rather than problems.
regarding feelings abt hoss_n2, this is what i analysed.
Hoss_n2 seems to be clean at heart and intentions but the wording he uses are kinda direct and might make sumone feel he is demanding. but guys as long as intentions are not wrong no need to attack him..
more over by pointing out that hoss_n2 is doing this, this and bla bla you people too are flaming and remember these forum rules apply to you aswell..
so please keep your calm and help people rather than critisize them.
on the rooting forum i will be deleting all the posts not related to rooting..
cheers..
cvchetan said:
guys.. what i see here is that you people are posting suggestions rather than problems.
regarding feelings abt hoss_n2, this is what i analysed.
Hoss_n2 seems to be clean at heart and intentions but the wording he uses are kinda direct and might make sumone feel he is demanding. but guys as long as intentions are not wrong no need to attack him..
more over by pointing out that hoss_n2 is doing this, this and bla bla you people too are flaming and remember these forum rules apply to you aswell..
so please keep your calm and help people rather than critisize them.
on the rooting forum i will be deleting all the posts not related to rooting..
cheers..
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thanks allot you are the only one here that understands me right . may be i cannot say what i really mean with writing as english is not my main language , but they don't give me any chance . sorry for going out of topic but i wanted to illustrate my point . good luck cleaning
I'm not pointing at anyone in particular as I only read threads and rarely look at who posted. My point wasn't to accuse anyone. But warning to off topics and complainers should be sent, failing to change their behavior should lead to more action.
Yes these are more suggestions than issues we have, but I think most of the people know what are the issues. The main one being 'talking in a thread about anything'. Most of the useful threads have a self-explanatory title, reading the original post usually tells a user where he wants to go with the thread he created.
I know some might 'sound' harsh or rude but personally I don't really mind that as long as it does not become a flaming war/troll feeding discussion. But keeping a discussion on the right direction is probably the most important thing in such a huge forum. Then the search tool comes handy when the discussion is going one way.
Warning/temp/perm banning. Sending public message to people saying 'please stop' is not going to work. A temp ban with a nice message included stating what he did wrong should be effective in most cases. Failing to comply after 'x' warnings/temp ban, bye bye we do not need you (They can still read threads, they'll just stop posting what devs don't need).
I'm not pissed or angry at anyone, I'm just one of those people who thinks that moderation is important. The easier/cleaner it is for everyone, the faster we'll get the good news/progress. This site is one big community, let's make it look good/the best there is.
well.. right now m cleaning up threads and rest assured that all off topic posts, flames wars will be stopped from now on..
lets get ourselves together and make this forum productive..
cheers
Maybe issue warning on some fanatic on this forum, some people are extremely rude for no reason, acting like their keyboard and mouse give them God like power.
Realize lots of people have limited knowledge and are trying to get some information. When you see the reaction of some user…bashing on them saying search first idiot there a post about it .Maybe you should realize some of them just don’t know what they have to search. Why not just point them in the proper direction and help them , it would make this forum way more attractive.
Cnrl said:
Maybe issue warning on some fanatic on this forum, some people are extremely rude for no reason, acting like their keyboard and mouse give them God like power.
Realize lots of people have limited knowledge and are trying to get some information. When you see the reaction of some user…bashing on them saying search first idiot there a post about it .Maybe you should realize some of them just don’t know what they have to search. Why not just point them in the proper direction and help them , it would make this forum way more attractive.
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you are right i see this usless replies not only here but on all forums ,why don't he just tell the answer ,new members don't think about search they are still new when i was juinor member i faced allot of these replies . if any body don't want to help just don't reply
Pointing the right direction if you can yes, not answering like an a**hole to a newcomer yes. But there is nothing wrong about telling them politely to search, we might know there is a thread on a subject, but pointing them to the right direction is also searching for them in some/most cases. All forums work pretty much the same, joining one means learning how to use it/navigate it.
Search is the biggest tool there is on the internet. This is how you find what you want, this is how you find answers. Internet is full of it. The faster you start, the more stuff you'll get out of it.
BTW: Answering like a a**hole to a newcomer is also worthy of warnings and ban. It's part of the issue too.
I'm all about common sense.
You can generally class users in 3 categories. The devs, the supporters, and the noobs. The devs are resourceful enough to not care, because they'll always find a way to get things done. The supporters have kinda a clue about what's going on, and are always trying to enforce rules to keep the noobs in order. The noobs almost always assume a hierarchy of power, try to suck up, seek attention, and post ridiculous amounts of crap to get out of trouble/sound smart/kiss ass.
So understanding this dynamics, devs really don't care about flaming and junk, they just want to get product out. Supporters need to learn to refrain, not feed the troll and stop thinking they are better than noobs. Noobs usually just chat amongst themselves if left alone, and are mostly harmless.
The only thing that need to happen here is a set of clear guidelines for noobs to read about when to post, where to post, and when not to post. Also, clean up the place from its state now so people don't get the idea that it's okay to post crap. Maybe a reminder (after submission of a post) for users with low post count to remind them useless junk are indeed useless and bin-worthy.
I was wondering if someone knew off the top of their head where text under icons on the notification pull down come from. Are they hard code or pulled from a sys var. I want to delete them. If they are code in a file what is the file name?
I have looked in a few files and I have either missed it or have not looked in the right file yet. My eyes are going cross from reading hex code.
Thanks
It's within the twframework-res.apk. I have forgotten which xml though.
Questions of this nature should be asked in Q&A section.
good day.
chopper the dog said:
It's within the twframework-res.apk. I have forgotten which xml though.
Questions of this nature should be asked in Q&A section.
good day.
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Thanks. I'll go through there again.
I was going to put it in the Q&A but its not a general question. Since it is about dev. I went ahead and put it here. Sometime its hard to decide where to post a question.
Thanks again
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=979224
"Currently people are asking quite a few questions in the development section. Starting today (3/3/2011) any new question threads made in the development sections WILL be moved to the Q&A section without a redirect thread. DO NOT POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV FORUM."
BrwnSuperman said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=979224
"Currently people are asking quite a few questions in the development section. Starting today (3/3/2011) any new question threads made in the development sections WILL be moved to the Q&A section without a redirect thread. DO NOT POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV FORUM."
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And you needed to do this why? Make yourself feel like a mod? Some people need to grow up here. jeez
MSHancock said:
And you needed to do this why? Make yourself feel like a mod? Some people need to grow up here. jeez
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He needed to do it because you obviously still believed that this question belonged in the development forum. It doesn't, as pointed out without any flaming and in a totally innocuous way. As far as I can tell the only one who needs to grow up here is you.
You made a mistake, instead of defending that mistake in the face of irrefutable proof that you are wrong, just admit it and move on. You only make yourself seem more ignorant when you get upset that people are doing their best to keep posts where they belong. Your question was a good one, just please post it in the correct board next time so we can keep the development board open for development topics.
Nothing against you man, just really getting tired of people getting so pissed off when someone tells them they are in the wrong section.
I agree, my post was in the wrong section. I thanked chopper for pointing out where I should have put it. I went back and went over ashasaur's new posting rules and saw the section he posted way before BrwnSuperman posted it.
With that said
You get pissed when someone tells a OP they are in the wrong section
I get pissed when I see people standing in line to play mod and ***** at someone
How about we agree to disagree. Everyone has a different opinion and we are all here for the same reason.
MSHancock said:
I agree, my post was in the wrong section. I thanked chopper for pointing out where I should have put it. I went back and went over ashasaur's new posting rules and saw the section he posted way before BrwnSuperman posted it.
With that said
You get pissed when someone tells a OP they are in the wrong section
I get pissed when I see people standing in line to play mod and ***** at someone
How about we agree to disagree. Everyone has a different opinion and we are all here for the same reason.
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"I was going to put it in the Q&A but its not a general question. Since it is about dev. I went ahead and put it here. Sometime its hard to decide where to post a question."
You seemed a bit confused so I thought I would just point it out in the rules, I didn't add anything personal in.
MSHancock said:
You get pissed when someone tells a OP they are in the wrong section
I get pissed when I see people standing in line to play mod and ***** at someone
How about we agree to disagree.
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How about we agree to not let forum posts actually make us angry.
Real life is the only thing that requires an emotional response, not internet land.
Relax guys. Nobody has even insulted someone else's mother yet.
BrwnSuperman said:
"I was going to put it in the Q&A but its not a general question. Since it is about dev. I went ahead and put it here. Sometime its hard to decide where to post a question."
You seemed a bit confused so I thought I would just point it out in the rules, I didn't add anything personal in.
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Agreed. You didn't and I did by snapping at ya. For that I will say sorry.
I should have went over the new rules again since it had been awhile since my last post.
Just do what I, and many others here have done.. stop posting on XDA. It seems no matter where you post nowadays, it's the wrong section.
A development section where you can't talk about development, only announce your releases, which you must know how to do on your own, since you can't ask questions. But no app or theme releases, those go somewhere else where you can't talk about themes or apps. General, where you can't ask questions, only state factual things about anything not having to do with development, or apps, or themes, or other phones, or anything having to do with issues with your phone, especially your battery life, or a development release not working correctly, or anything somewhat resembling a request for an expert opinion, such as a release date.
In short, the rules here could easily be shortened to:
Don't post anywhere about anything. Welcome to XDA.
Caution: This post may be moved shortly, as it contains a welcome to a fellow XDA member, which may require it's placement in the XDA member chat section, or general, seeing as there are no questions, or Q&A, seeing as it answers a question, or maybe the main Android section, seeing as it has to do with the XDA forums. Either way, it
'll be in the wrong forum and I'll yet again get a long line of people hopping on the "wrong forum, asshat!" bandwagon.
Here is a tip from me to the entirety of internet users:
If you ever feel angry about someone who has "wronged" you on an internet forum, immediately call someone who doesn't use the internet as much as you (parents, significant other, non-techie best friend).
Now attempt to explain the situation to that person.
Or maybe just imagine doing this in your mind, because that's all it usually takes to realize how incredibly dumb you will then feel for getting angry about anything that happens on the internet.
Grandma: "...he told you your thread was in the wrong forum... and that makes you angry..."
You: "Ya... ok so it's a bigger deal than it sounds like. My reputation is at stake here."
Grandma: "What is a forum? Get their mothers' phone numbers and I'll have a stern talk with them."
GizmoDroid said:
Here is a tip from me to the entirety of internet users:
If you ever feel angry about someone who has "wronged" you on an internet forum, immediately call someone who doesn't use the internet as much as you (parents, significant other, non-techie best friend).
Now attempt to explain the situation to that person.
Grandma: "...he told you your thread was in the wrong forum... and that makes you angry..."
You: "Ya... ok so it's a bigger deal than it sounds like. My reputation is at stake here."
Grandma: "What is a forum? Get their mothers' phone numbers and I'll have a stern talk with them."
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Or in a logical, realistic way:
You: "I spent hours upon hours learning, testing, fixing, coding and sharing something, for zero income, just to have someone nix it all out in a heartbeat for some bull**** reason."
Grandma: "I would be upset, too"
If you think real people are not on the other end of your posts, you are the reason people get angry.
MSHancock said:
Agreed. You didn't and I did by snapping at ya. For that I will say sorry.
I should have went over the new rules again since it had been awhile since my last post.
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I retract my sorry!
I went through some of your post and you do seem to have a "WANNA BE MOD" problem. Your constantly telling people where things should go.
Domush said:
If you think real people are not on the other end of your posts, you are the reason people get angry.
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The only time anyone gets upset by what I say is when they read a tone into what I'm writing that wasn't my intention. I am encouraging the reader to being less sensitive when reading posts.
If you look in other threads, you will see that I encourage the writers of posts to be concise and straight-forward but patient with requests for help or when reporting problems, instead of demanding someone else to solve their problem. Instead of getting angry about it, I let them know about how inefficient their method of approaching the issue is, and try to encourage them to make posts that help the flow of information, instead of hinder it.
Personally, I'm offended more by the fact that negativity slows down development, then that someone said something that hurts my feelings. Positive, well written posts = Better, faster development.
Let's face it, there are a lot of people in this world who, when put behind the anonymous barrier of a computer screen, lose their minds and do nothing but slow everyone down. Those people suck, but you have to find a way to deal with them.
Most other times, its just a normal person who writes something in an ambiguous way, and another person is overly sensitive when reading. Unfortunately, in android land, it seems like we attract a higher percentage of the uncouth, immature crowd who run their mouth without stopping to think about how the other person might feel. Often times, these people are also the overly sensitive ones (but not always).
So while your point is true, it really didn't apply to what I was saying. I hope this post clears that up, and also encourages a healthy attitude towards communication between developers and users.
Our forums are just full of whiney bossy people. I suggest when someone tries to correct your "error"... dont respond (unless the error is device related of course) bc when the op gets defensive in any way the other posters feel they need to defend themselves. End result.... threads like this. It is quite obviously through any persons daily routine, some people we encounter cant/dont/wont follow instruction.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Awesome.
Not only was the question in the wrong section (and still is...), it will now get closed by a mod once one of them gets off their ass.
And one more person who needs to add thei 2 cents. This thread should have been trashed a log time ago.
clap clap clap clap (awesome content people). ataranine (good trolling).
But anywho, @OP you might find it easier to grab a twframework-res.apk that has been edited the way you want and change images if need be. Because if you find the edit that needs to be done you will still need to contend with the position and size of the other elements of the quickpanel. i.e. Once text is gone the background image for the buttons will still be drawn to the same size as if text were there and if you do edit the way that image is drawn then the padding of all other elements will need to be edited. So the lazy way will prevail on this one. Kang it.
good day.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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Click to collapse
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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Click to collapse
I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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Click to collapse
I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Click to collapse
Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Click to collapse
Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
10. You will be flamed if you post a question that could have been solved with a little effort searching.
9.1 Most questions can be answered with a little effort searching
9. Unlocking your phone will void your warranty for software issue claims and maybe hardware issues as well. (Nobody knows for sure--which means anything you do is at your own risk.)
8. It is easy to unlock the bootloader. Go to Htc.dev to do so.
7. There are not too many DEVS right now but those who are here rock it for free and they don't have time to answer stupid posts like, how do you flash a kernal or is this going to void my warranty.
6. DEVS and Moderators are no longer spoonfeeding us answers.
5. Using fastboot is easy. Read. Reread. Then reread again. I was convinced that I was right and spent 18 hours repeating the same stupid mistake. Turns out I can read and write an appellate court brief but I can't read three lines of a post.
4. I am more than double the age of one of the most active developers....and I'm still a young man at 37.
3. Of all the time I spend searching for answers half of it is wasted sifting through duplicate posts from people asking the same question another noob had just finished asking.
2. My wife hates my phone.
1. There is no S-OFF so F-OFF if you post a question about it.
And you also double counted 9
Ha, and I felt old compared to some of the people in these forums(I'm 30)..
Question about number 5 - what makes you say using fastboot is easy? Outside using the flashboot command for a few things, that was one of the things I found the least info about..
And yea, I agree with number 3. The worst part is the answer is usually "use the search button".. if even once in a while they just answered the damn question, me using the search wouldn't take so (#*%ing long! Considering I will find 30 different posts asking the question before I ever find the answer.. sigh.
Oh, and number 2 made me laugh. I have no wife, but pretty sure my roommate is starting to hate it
Post of the day for me!
It's nice to see some other non-nooby noobs around.
Hey dude, nice move, that post of yours!
Really surprised about number 2 tho- thought I'm the only one with a wife that has a problematic attitude towards my addiction...
Sent from my TBD Runny 3.1
Silentbtdeadly said:
And yea, I agree with number 3. The worst part is the answer is usually "use the search button".. if even once in a while they just answered the damn question, me using the search wouldn't take so (#*%ing long! Considering I will find 30 different posts asking the question before I ever find the answer.. sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the second person who had the same question as someone else used search instead of just asking it, he would have an answer. And the third, and the fourth, and the 5th, and the 30th, etc.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using xda premium
hasoon2000 said:
And you also double counted 9
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Click to collapse
That's why I made it 9.1.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
I LMAO at #4 I'm 65, rooted my Motorola Cliq 2yrs ago, didn't even know these kind of places existed lol. And I agree with read,read,read,reread and read again. Thanks for a nice article
More truths...
alrosal said:
10. You will be flamed if you post a question that could have been solved with a little effort searching.
9.1 Most questions can be answered with a little effort searching
9. Unlocking your phone will void your warranty for software issue claims and maybe hardware issues as well. (Nobody knows for sure--which means anything you do is at your own risk.)
8. It is easy to unlock the bootloader. Go to Htc.dev to do so.
7. There are not too many DEVS right now but those who are here rock it for free and they don't have time to answer stupid posts like, how do you flash a kernal or is this going to void my warranty.
6. DEVS and Moderators are no longer spoonfeeding us answers.
5. Using fastboot is easy. Read. Reread. Then reread again. I was convinced that I was right and spent 18 hours repeating the same stupid mistake. Turns out I can read and write an appellate court brief but I can't read three lines of a post.
4. I am more than double the age of one of the most active developers....and I'm still a young man at 37.
3. Of all the time I spend searching for answers half of it is wasted sifting through duplicate posts from people asking the same question another noob had just finished asking.
2. My wife hates my phone.
1. There is no S-OFF so F-OFF if you post a question about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
ringochan said:
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost laughed myself out of my chair with 0.5
I know a lot of "senior members" that give out bad information and it only makes things worse. But don't think they get away with it for long! As a "senior member" I hold them to a much higher standard. Many members are post addicts just for that title though. We moderators call them "post pumpers." They tend to post a lot of off-topic stuff and ask really stupid questions. Then they give inaccurate information and I have to come in and save the day. Then of course when I see this type of activity I will demote the senior member down to junior member by removing all irrelevant and inaccurate posts. This is a quick way to piss off a post pumper.
In regards to the search feature. The feature is really active if the developers and OP's tag their posts with keywords. Example. Some good keywords for this thread would be 'NOOB' 'GUIDE' 'HELP ME' etc. There are a lot of theads without tags.
ringochan said:
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading, I was using my N1 for 2 years and I had to read read read read and read more everywhere not just xda to learn what everything was and how to do things.
With S-On things are a little different but, if you start reading and researching on your own, you'll learn a lot...see how many posts I have in october and november of 2010 when I rooted my Nexus one!! First time I ever rooted an android. all my posts just say thanks and I really don't ask questions; I had approximately 10 posts. In july I had some hardware questions and obscure questions regarding galaxy tab 10.1 since it was so new and could not find info online. !! by then I was familiar enough to root my galaxy tab 10.1 and very familiar with almost everything...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
seansk said:
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading, I was using my N1 for 2 years and I had to read read read read and read more everywhere not just xda to learn what everything was and how to do things.
With S-On things are a little different but, if you start reading and researching on your own, you'll learn a lot...see how many posts I have in october and november of 2010 when I rooted my Nexus one!! First time I ever rooted an android. all my posts just say thanks and I really don't ask questions; I had approximately 10 posts. In july I had some hardware questions and obscure questions regarding galaxy tab 10.1 since it was so new and could not find info online. !! by then I was familiar enough to root my galaxy tab 10.1 and very familiar with almost everything...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
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I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
Binary100100 said:
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
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This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
jjlean said:
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
I'm just happy that we are all having a good conversation. A lot of bad attitudes in some of the other threads.
I agree that the search feature is not great but it did force me to learn. Perhaps we should have a thread where noobs can post questions and feel safe. Hell, I'll start it. Nothing too technical but if only noobs read it we can help each other. Might give mods a break. Call it "Yo fellow noob- ask your stupid question here first before you post in another thread. It will become a filter of sorts."
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
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Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
alrosal said:
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
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Okay so I proved that I'm a noob forever by somehow quoting my own post.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
I could call the thread "hey! Are you looking at my noobs."
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Improving XDA's Search function
Binary100100 said:
I almost laughed myself out of my chair with 0.5
I know a lot of "senior members" that give out bad information and it only makes things worse. But don't think they get away with it for long! As a "senior member" I hold them to a much higher standard. Many members are post addicts just for that title though. We moderators call them "post pumpers." They tend to post a lot of off-topic stuff and ask really stupid questions. Then they give inaccurate information and I have to come in and save the day. Then of course when I see this type of activity I will demote the senior member down to junior member by removing all irrelevant and inaccurate posts. This is a quick way to piss off a post pumper.
In regards to the search feature. The feature is really active if the developers and OP's tag their posts with keywords. Example. Some good keywords for this thread would be 'NOOB' 'GUIDE' 'HELP ME' etc. There are a lot of theads without tags.
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Hey, I'm glad you had a good laugh with my post. I read somewhere else that you had a bad day, so it's a good sign you still hadn't lost the sense of humor.
Actually, though, my intention for posting was more serious than to make people laugh. As you mentioned, for the search feature to work well, we need discipline. The system is just not smart enough yet to become noob-proof. You need to add tags, name thread title properly, consolidate and delete duplicates and inaccuracies (by mods like you), etc.etc.
BTW, I just found out that any one CAN add tags to threads opened by someone else. I just added 'noob' and 'guide' to this thread. 'help me' was rejected because the word 'help' was too common, it said.
Now, if we can request some new features to the XDA management, here's my take...
Question Thread Status: 'Actively Waiting for Answer', 'Answered but Needs More Info', 'Solved', 'Abandoned', etc.
Answer Post Rating: 'Best Answer', 'Additional Question', 'Additional info', etc.
Smart Post Tracking: 'Info in this post is Current/Obsolete', 'Supersedes/Superseded-by Post #999', etc.
Sub-Threads: Questions related or refers to certain threads can be nested so that they appear grouped together. It's similar to the 'Threaded Mode' but at the thread level.
Enhanced 'Threaded (Display) Mode': The current implementation of the 'Threaded Mode' is not useful, IMO. I want to see the entire page nested instead of just the post titles in a small window.
I don't think I need to explain but if someone up there is interested, I will for sure.
Binary100100 said:
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
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Reputation certainly is a motivation for SOME people, not for EVERYONE (sigh...). The 'Noob meter/status' is a good one. But how we (the commoners) can vote/rate someone else's questions without causing confrontations?
alrosal said:
Okay so I proved that I'm a noob forever by somehow quoting my own post.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
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Fortunately, you didn't ask a stupid question to qualify for the noob status. Make all your mistakes before they actually implement the 'Noob Meter'!!!
seansk said:
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading,
.....
...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
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My point exactly. I want the forum search function to be better so that people like you can learn and help others much more easily than it is now. History has proved many times that 'noobs who don't read' will stay 'noobs forever' even if you give them the best tool available on the planet.
jjlean said:
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
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As I said above, you can only be 'noob forever' by not reading. As soon as you read through the thread and felt 'funny', you proved yourself to be a non-noob. And when you thought it to be true, you proved yourself to be a pro!! Hehe.
alrosal said:
I could call the thread "hey! Are you looking at my noobs."
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
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If I were you, I would change the OP title to 'Unveiling the Secrets of Searching' because that's exactly what you started with this thread (at least with some bullet points).
I'm glad that Binary is with us on these discussions. Some mods would object to these, I know. At least, we are being heard by a non-noob!
ringochan said:
snip snip snip
...I'm glad that Binary is with us on these discussions. Some mods would object to these, I know. At least, we are being heard by a non-noob!
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Of course! I'm a member too you know! It's not like I'm an XDA Automated Bot or anything.
I put my pants on like everyone else (not that I've been paying any attention to anyone dressing or anything.)
Yes I was having a bad day... couple of them actually. But I got (what I call) justice and closure. I'm satisfied with the result of the conflict and I'm moving on. Not everyone will be (or is) satisfied with the result but whatever. They can give over it.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
Questions??[/QUOTE]
Hey,I resemble that remark!
I like small noobs with hard bipples, (sorry couldn't stop myself)
Amazingly awesome post!
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
If you ask nicely, in the right place, you'll get an answer.
The problem is when people come demanding this or that, being rude and asking questions in the wrong places.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
my expirience is i been in 2 phone sections the skyrocket galaxy s2 and the lg g2.
in the s2 there were very helpful but when i came here i notice the same thing rather then getting help you get unnecessary post or answers.. or making fun of you or beign smartasses.. ive had a few arguments with some guys in here so they know who they are
the way i think is teach someone that someone will teach another, we are all different some will get it, and to some will be more difficult. instead ofa bogus post why not share link or type a helpful post.. then if you aint helping why post at all just ignore and go on with life..
CiscoKydd said:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
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As a moderator and very active member of this community I see a lot. There are threads that I participate in as a member and those are the most friendly, helpful threads. I am actually shocked at the helpfulness and politeness in spite of the fact that people asking the questions failed to read as close as 2 posts above which had their answer. More and more members have joined this community and do not want to read even the basic requirement of the OP of the thread before they attempt to modify their $600 device. Too many members want an answer NAO without having to go to the trouble of reading or searching a little. The very first rule asks all members who join to search first. When I joined in 2010, I read for a month before making my first post. XDA was not a help desk then. It was a place to share knowledge. This is two very different things. People who genuinely want help, how to theme, how to change something, how to know how to adjust a kernel and figure out the best setting for themselves...those people usually get the help they need. But people that refuse to read, expecting the members of the thread to do it for them...then ask a question in a development thread like "Do I need root for this?" Then proceed to ask to be spoon fed how to do it? This probably will annoy some members that have done a little reading. So yes, the site has changed...you can expect that with going from a million members in 2010 to 7 million now. And on the other hand we do have rules regarding member conduct as well, and members should respect the new members and guide them..make this the site they want it to be and once was. I understand what you are saying but I also see many sides of this. I see new members being rude, demanding answers, expecting someone to answer within an hour of their question, as well as the other side of someone rudely stating "Search!". So it is not just one sided. Unfortunately I see this as a sign of what society in general is becoming as we overpopulate this poor ball of dirt hurtling through space.
Thank you, KennyG123. I cannot disagree with anything you stated. In fact, it reminds me that I forgot to mention to new members that they be polite, also. I cannot help but to agree with you 100%. We all need a little reminder sometimes. So I hope that someone...anyone reads this and think about how they treat others. I need it, too!
Again, Thank you, KennyG123.
This thread should be a sticky
Enjoyed this thoroughly.
Been on since my little Frodo Sony Xperia mini x10i (what a name) and right here are the two sides of coin.
When I came on I knew nothing - and asked some dumb questions, and did the searches etc.
Many of those searches came back with stuff I could not understand. And some of the people reproducing this info were jerks - concerned only with obfuscation and an invitation to pm.
However, people were not rude, so eventually you find someone same level or a little higher and you're off.
Then suddenly the nicest thing happens - someone asks for help...and you CAN help. You recognise yourself and step in and it's good - EVEN IF just to remind them that the answer is on the page before, and sometimes searching first will help. And this without the eye-rolling condescension...you all know what I mean.
I too have referred people here, impressed with my 'knowledge', and I'm like, no, look, it's this great community of people......and then have them come back all discouraged and they may as well just stick to whatever the corporations foist on them.
Then on the other hand, a couple of years ago I noticed a proliferating of the other kind of jerk - you know them also.
Badgering the creator of a post for eta's with funny emoticons, I just cant wait, are we there yet, huh, are we there yet, and by the way do you think we'll be getting Smartie for our phones, and over on the 'other' device, they've got the code to overlay on Marshmallow to port to Smartie, their phones are so much better, and more whining, and maybe YOU can do the port, and are we there yet, I'll check back in an hour, and oh ya, how do I root yadiyada - there's a stickie, first post by the way.
That also is plain rude. There's a community, find out a little about it first, or read the phone manual at least.
For both instances I find one thing; real XDAers do not snap at people, don't jeez I wish you'd read something first, aren't put off by being referred to search either, won't make anyone feel like they're time here has been wasted, nor that anyone else is dumb, they've all been there.
These are the fakers, and posers, and always, ALWAYS, at the centre of some flame war.
Of course sometimes you want to voice your opinion on something and read others too so over-moderation kills the fun. There can be discretion, and it is clear when a discussion has gone from heated to just plain chest thumping - step away.
So, you know, use common sense.
Finally, just one more thing, I learnt good moderators are actually very helpful...For anything.
Pm something. They'll point you somewhere, guaranteed. Let them know if you feel like you're being bullied WITH A LINK to where this is happening and they'll show up and clean up the thread and keep safe. Though look, if YOU are the one stirring stuff up and then reporting, that too will be seen, and in my experience, that's looked at as a worse offence than just not searching first, so be sure.
Something HAS happened to the entire world of social internet that I find reprehensible. People have become rude simply because it makes them feel better to put someone else down in style.
I don't know when it happened exactly - and it's everywhere, Reddit, Facebook, wherever.
At XDA we can at least keep reminding people to just have a good time and don't be rude. Do whatever you like; research and grow or ask stupid questions, just don't be rude. We care about everyone on here.
We actually do.
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using XDA Premium HD app
CiscoKydd your thoughts are echoed by many on XDA. Heck we mods have the same thoughts from time to time.
This
CiscoKydd said:
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter.
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actually wasn't the guise under which XDA was created. It was a site by developers for developers. There were many times when a Dev would tell people to F off but by in large (as it is today) many were willing to share their knowledge.
CiscoKydd said:
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating.
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We simply call this group the entitled.. Ask them, they will tell you it is so:silly:
A big change implemented a few years ago on XDA, came about with this small group in mind. We call it the report system (explained here):good:
While we like to see this behemoth (XDA) run like a well oiled machine, there will always be a wrench thrown into the cog. We (moderators/admin of XDA) ask that you NOT let yourselves get dragged into the battle of wills. A simple report with a simple explanation (in said report) usually lets us deal with a situation with little, to no drama left behind in its wake.
CiscoKydd said:
Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
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Cheers to that mate:good:
As membership continues to grow we can only hope that the few that read this remember why we are all here, to share and help others with what you know.
I have been "crying" to XDA for a number of years for help. I always got the help I needed. Most important, I got an education. There is more knowledge here on XDA than I could ever absorb! The hardest part was learning to search. But once I got over that hump I felt... Powerful!!
And I need to remind myself to be understanding, patient, respectful. You guys are right. It ain't easy sometimes. But XDA is a learning experience.
You guys are a good and knowledgeable bunch. Thanks. For everything.
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
Thanks for bringing this up.
Eminemiero said:
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
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rajkatiyar07 said:
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
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I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
TonyStark said:
Thanks for bringing this up.
I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
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No problem Mr. Stark !
Regards :- Jarvis
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
George Jetson said:
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
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Thats funny, I came here in 2013 and I think that theme's the best and everything else is complicated. I miss the kitkat days.
Alradaev said:
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
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I can't remember ever being flamed for making a noob question. One of my first posts on this site was a silly question in a dev thread and the developer (LenAsh) just answered it respectfully. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones but my noobishness was only ever met with kindness and help.
I don't think I've experienced any rudeness when I've (albeit rarely) asked any questions since I started my Android journey in early-mid 2014. Before that I was an iOS guy, before that a Final Fantasy XI guy (MMORPG, was a moderator for a while of one of the biggest FFXI websites created by my best friend), and so on and so on. All forums that are a bit on the nerdy/technical/gadgets side have a problem with rude people. Lest we not forget the adage that the delightful guys at Penny Arcade put into a perfect cartoon: regular person + anonymity (sometimes)= bag of douche.
Having been a moderator I understand the frustration occasionally felt by @KennyG123 and @TonyStark. Why are some people such freakin jerks, yet others will type the same thing 10,000 times just to feel like they've helped 10,000 people. Why do some people read and search and learn first for a while before asking anything, yet others will ask (and almost demand) to have their hand held at every. single. step.? Maybe it's human nature?
I'm all about helping and being nice. Online and off.
people tend to ask first read later or no read at all.
they just want to post the question then go and do their own thing, come back later to see the answer.
while the thread starter wasted their own time to type the multiple posts of information/FAQ.
and last, this post should not be in this section as this is not even android related.
you post the wrong question in the wrong section and you still hope to get an answer?
I've been on the HTC wildfire, Nexus 5, Nexus 7 2013, Nexus 9 and LG G2 threads and have always found the other XDA members to be most helpful, (even though I'm not a flashaholic.)
However, I do make sure to search before asking questions and can therefore understand the frustration of answering questions that have been asked many times before. :angel:
So true but it seems out side of the G2 forums, there are still good people.
I had a good experience in the nexus 6 forums, never once got asked to "search before asking" best part of it is that I don't even have a N6 and the question I asked was actually illegal/criminal, I didn't know that at the time and those members explained in detail why it was illegal without bring disrespectful to me.
I honestly blame mods for not being strict enough.
I brought up a few specific xda members that were out right harassing people and I presented my case with evidence of repeated harassment.
The mod told me that I was over reacting. I said that by not doing anything about it they were condoning the action.
I wanted to strangle that mod, completely worthless. Police that don't enforce.
If the mods would start banning the few that are bringing xda down, then the problem would be solved.
But they won't do anything!
Mods have their work cut out for them here and I know they are doing the best they can, but it's not focused correctly to rectify the problem.
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