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I have been following the forum since I got this beast.
Personally I have had a very pleasant Windows Phone experience using Titan. However in last few days the negative feedback threads have increased in number. Presuming that number of end users is increasing, the amount of threads/feedback would have increased anyway. But then does it mean that majority of users are regretting buying this beast? - I am not.
However after looking at few threads, I've noticed that majority of issues with Titan are to those owners who are on AT&T. Could it be carrier modifications in the USA? Is Titan available on any other network in the US? Anyone have feedback?
Most Europe based users have not give much input in those problem threads, so am assuming it's just AT&T handsets that go weird.
But it will help if we guessed a rough number of Titans and their providers/sellers.
Not sure what a poll of owners will show you without correlating it to how happy they are. I am on AT&T and am quite happy - other than WIFI being a little over sensative. If I did not turn off the sound enhancements, I think I would be very unhappy.
I am on at&t with the titan and have no issue with it. Its been an amazing phone, best i have ever had.
AT&T here, other than my disappointment at "4G", everything is fine. Most notably, I don't have any signal issues while holding the phone, I ran several tests with the app Bandwidth
Astute observation. As another poster said on another thread, we drooled over the Titan so much that there had to be a little bit of let down.
I tried to balance my likes and dislikes in another thread, but my bottom line is that the good still outweighs the bad, and much of the bad is software, not hardware, so might be fixed in the future.
I would agree that, yes, the Titan is the best phone I've ever owned, period.
All that said, I just picked up my wife's Focus not ten minutes ago, and I really miss its form factor, weight and saturation.
Thanks for voting guys!
The only reason I din't correlate it to happy or not happy was because it will be too relative an idea of happiness. e.g. I might be happy even with those wifi issues, purely because I am with a network provider that gives me unlimited internet and never use wifi!
However, it is definitely a good idea to have a poll correlating experiences with geographical purchases.
By the looks of just initial 9 votes it looks like either way the views are from AT&T users majorly - happy or unhappy ones. I am just a little inclined to believe AT&T modifications could be at the root of all these(?)
Can someone let us know if on WP AT&T puts it's own bloatware like on Android? Or is bloatware additions just restricted to manufacturers and not network providers?
I know here in the UK Orange is nasty and very notorious in terms of modifying any OS to an extent by their useless bloatware. But am not very sure about AT&T, however would be good to add to my knowledge
drupad2drupad said:
Thanks for voting guys!
The only reason I din't correlate it to happy or not happy was because it will be too relative an idea of happiness. e.g. I might be happy even with those wifi issues, purely because I am with a network provider that gives me unlimited internet and never use wifi!
However, it is definitely a good idea to have a poll correlating experiences with geographical purchases.
By the looks of just initial 9 votes it looks like either way the views are from AT&T users majorly - happy or unhappy ones. I am just a little inclined to believe AT&T modifications could be at the root of all these(?)
Can someone let us know if on WP AT&T puts it's own bloatware like on Android? Or is bloatware additions just restricted to manufacturers and not network providers?
I know here in the UK Orange is nasty and very notorious in terms of modifying any OS to an extent by their useless bloatware. But am not very sure about AT&T, however would be good to add to my knowledge
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They install a couple AT&T specific apps, but you can uninstall them. Other than that, it is as stock of a rom as you can get. No bloatware.
I had all the att stuff off ,except for the Myatt app, within an hour of getting and activating my Titan. Love it, only hiccups so far are getting my old word,excel docs off my old Fuze- not all of them are docx format. Hope the next update includes the ability to mms with gif and audio files. I have fun just turning it on and flipping screens smooth and bright.
Edit to the office docs: had to reset the office hub on the phone, no problems now reading earlier versions of office and can edit newer versions.
Dragon Queen said:
I had all the att stuff off ,except for the Myatt app, within an hour of getting and activating my Titan. Love it, only hiccups so far are getting my old word,excel docs off my old Fuze- not all of them are docx format. Hope the next update includes the ability to mms with gif and audio files. I have fun just turning it on and flipping screens smooth and bright.
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Haha exactly my feeling! turning on and flipping screens gives me so much of satisfaction!
Now that we know ATT bloatware is nearly zero, I am struggling to figure out how come so many ATT users have dodgy titans that need to be replaced within one week. Again not 'so many' probably 5-6 that might be reported out here in the forum.
My Titan after 7740 update has worked so much flawlessly and everyday I keep discovering new apps that never imagined to exist on my old Android phone! This WP Titan is a treat to my eyes!
Thank you for your replies, they have defiantly given me something to think about.
I think your correct, a Android to Titan? thread might be useful, especially with these great answers. Will sort it now.
Thanks again for your responses.
Edit, its sorted. Thread created titled Android to Titan? I have moved the responses there. Hope its useful
original_ganjaman said:
Thank you for your replies, they have defiantly given me something to think about.
I think your correct, a Android to Titan? thread might be useful, especially with these great answers. Will sort it now.
Thanks again for your responses.
Edit, its sorted. Thread created titled Android to Titan? I have moved the responses there. Hope its useful
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That was quick! Thanks
drupad2drupad said:
That was quick! Thanks
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Only a BUMP!
my 2 cents worth,unbranded sim free europe with zero issues from day one. love this phone
stevov said:
my 2 cents worth,unbranded sim free europe with zero issues from day one. love this phone
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me too,the phone is just great.No problem so far.
Well for one thing us AT&T users are running older software on our Titans than the rest of the world because AT&T sucks.
Unbranded Titan UK, No issues, Perfectly happy and hope it stays that way.
UK
Unbranded UK on orange no problems so far, battery lasting much better than i hoped slight issues with the radio and wifi , not had any screen lack of response as metioned in other forums, last phone was HD2 running 'everything'.
This phone is the only upgrade i could go for after the HD2. Sadly just lurking in hope of the 'custom ROM' i know the geniuses here will eventualy produce
After putting WP7 on my HD2 I decided to get myself a Titan until something better comes along here is Australia.
So I got myself a AT&T branded unit off ebay, SIM unlocked it using htcimeiunlock.com (which took all of a couple of minutes) after AT&T customer serice told me I couldn't unluock it and I'm now a happy camper on the Telstra NextG network here in Oz wiht my Titan.
I am seeing 3G/WiFi issues like others but other than that the unit is going well.
Oh I also got the Mugen Power 1950mAh battery, which I can run my Titan for almost 2 days, with bluetooth and often WiFi on as well.
Now if only we can get a custom unlocked ROM the world would be perfect
Just days after my team Unlocked the IROM, Samsung is selling a "Developer Edition". This developer edition will be more secure than the exploit unlock my team provides.
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I605MSAVZW
I find this really funny. I will also call those who pay for this device a sucker.
heck yea
Why would anyone in their right mind fork that kind of money over, when Adam Outler has opened this bad device up for you, you are right, they are a sucker if they fall for this.
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
imnuts said:
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
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none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
AdamOutler said:
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
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They can collect unlocked data, but they can't say "these people wanted an unlocked device only". By purchasing the phone directly from them, they have hard numbers to provide. Also, how is the possibility of an OTA limiting future radios, etc. based on bootloader version not valid? Are they likely to do it? No, but it is still a possibility. And why would not buying it from Verizon be an invalid reason? You seem to hate them for locking it, so why would you buy it directly from them to help support them further in locking the device? I'd rather have whatever profits there are go only to Samsung.
imnuts said:
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device.
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I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
The way I see it, Samsung wants the phone unlocked from the start. They know that they can appeal to a greater Android crowd by letting it be easily unlocked, as it is on virtually all other flavors of the phone. When it comes to Verizon however, they have no say in the matter initially. It must be locked. This is the same for pretty much all other phone OEM's on Verizon as well. Hell, my old Droid X STILL doesn't have an unlocked bootloader.
By selling a "developer edition" that works on Verizon, it's kinda like they're sticking the finger back at Verizon while simultaneously making direct profit. Since they are the ones who made this beautiful device, I have no problem with this. They definitely deserve it. And they could opt to just not sell us these unlocked devices anyway, leaving us in the dust to deal with waiting on OTA's and never being able to truly update our device with custom firmware.
Either way if it weren't for you Adam and your team, this would be our only option. It's amazing to me that you guys were able to break Verizon's grasp on our devices and really stick it to them. As someone who has endured the annoying locked bootloader for a long time with my Droid X, it makes me grin ear to ear seeing their attempts to control our devices be foiled in just a couple of weeks after release.
Muchos gracias friend. And a big OORAH to you.
Old MuckenMire said:
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
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The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
ihavenewnike said:
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
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the problem is not samsung its verizon...samsung does not encrypt bootloaders. verizon requests the device to be locked and samsung must comply in order to manufacture devices for that network.
imnuts said:
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
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I'm running deodexed stock, is there anything I or a developer can do that would block any OTA, and block the notification and nagging that would happen?
Thanks again man!
delete
droidstyle said:
delete
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OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
phind123 said:
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
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nah... the download counters speak for themselves.
1500 so far.
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
crazydad said:
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
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The required source release will be the same for both.
Old MuckenMire said:
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
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If you see sdm 1.0 in your apps then yes freeze it! I believe on beans rom its already removed. I could not remember if it had it stock, that's why I deleted my post...however I do know it was there on the GS3 stock.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Killer Turtle said:
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
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It doesn't say that anywhere in the specs...
Called T-mobile earlier today to change my number, I do so every 3 months, and asked the Rep. on the phone if she could give me any info on our beloved P769. (Specifically the next software update from 10g, hopefully unlocking the bootloader. ) I am a self proclaimed amateur developer, a ROM junkie, and a soft/hard brick - unbrick Guru. I do not hide the fact that I root every device I've ever had and I make it a issue to educate the kind folks at T-Mobile every chance I get. HOWEVER, the girl I spoke with today took a stand against my radical love of root and claimed T-Mobile is supporting LG 110% in the fight to keep my P769.10g's bootloader `difficult` to access. Oh she rekindled a raging fire deep within that's laid dormant since my G2X. LG has become a company that prides itself in inaccessible devices in open source environment. These fools are the Daewoo of smart phones. The writing is on the wall. Samsung here I come.
Sent from my LG-P769 using xda premium
Please keep in mind that you were speaking to a general care rep...she has no authority to make any decisions relating to software updates.
I live in a city where we have two T-Mobile call centers...I worked there in the tier 3 tech support for a brief time...there are tons of people who work there who have rooted phones, there is even a section of their internal web forum devoted to rooting devices.
Call it what you will, or jump ship to another device...but don't buy a mid level phone and whine about it.
...I happen to be quite pleased with the performance of mine running rooted 10g, I have about 85-90 apps installed and haven't had to swap memory (many of you install games...not my thing). This phone runs quicker and more reliable than many of my other phones have.
.02 cents deposited
Sent via Tapatalk 2
jankyjon said:
Called T-mobile earlier today to change my number, I do so every 3 months, and asked the Rep. on the phone if she could give me any info on our beloved P769. (Specifically the next software update from 10g, hopefully unlocking the bootloader. ) I am a self proclaimed amateur developer, a ROM junkie, and a soft/hard brick - unbrick Guru. I do not hide the fact that I root every device I've ever had and I make it a issue to educate the kind folks at T-Mobile every chance I get. HOWEVER, the girl I spoke with today took a stand against my radical love of root and claimed T-Mobile is supporting LG 110% in the fight to keep my P769.10g's bootloader `difficult` to access. Oh she rekindled a raging fire deep within that's laid dormant since my G2X. LG has become a company that prides itself in inaccessible devices in open source environment. These fools are the Daewoo of smart phones. The writing is on the wall. Samsung here I come.
Sent from my LG-P769 using xda premium
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unbrick guruyou must be long time member of xda then. why opened new account and made this 1st post. Just curious!!!
EDIT: You spoke with T-mobile which is not LG. LG has nothing to do with policies and terms of TMO. You are only unfortunate that in your country, L9 is not directly sold by LG.
As fat as representatives on desk are concerned, they are also not from LG, even if it is authorized service centers of LG phones. Service centers are mostly local franchisees of companies who just provide service. Their opinion does not mean anything and not official LG's opinion.
"As fat as" lmao. You guys are so sewious. Could you not detect the sarcasm thru the staccato key strokes? Hmm? Refocus. Why isn't this a 4g device? Come on guys its Monday lighten up. I beat cancer I'll beat 10g . Enjoy.
Sent from my LG-P769 using xda premium
This is xda, this is the place to be serious
Please don't post if you don't know.
Right now tmobile could be working on the jellybean release or they could leave our variant where it is but either way hearsay helps no one.
it's definitely not worth flaming a call center rep over either. Generally help desk work is a thankless job and it sounds like you were just rude to some poor soul over nothing
=============================
LG L9 p769 - Stock rooted 4.0.4
Nexus 7 - Dirty Aokp v5.1 4.2.2
Htc Sensation - Jellybam v4.1 4.1.2
**** you mike
Sent from my LG-P769 using xda premium
It's frustrating that there isn't an official form of communication from carriers on this sort of thing. If T-mobile simply had a FAQ for each phone that actually laid out their view on things, like:
yes we hope to roll out a JB update at some point in the future that will include an unlocked bootloader
no, we are not working on a JB update at this time
We wouldn't have to look at these customer support interactions and decide if there's any merit to them.
The jokes on T-Mobile anyway. Some of us already have unlocked boot loader on P769.
Sent from my LG-P760 using xda premium
Pointless thread.
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
I got in to rooting and flashing when I was on my Samsung Fascinate, it was the device I learned the ropes on. By the time I was ready to upgrade devices, I was already running ICS on my Fascinate. We all know the history of the S3 and it being a flagship device for Samsung......and there were countless ROM builds for it. One of the most stable team builds I've ever been on was AOKP. Coming up through versions of OTA builds, AOKP was always on top....IMO. There were other ROM's that opened different customizations, but in my eyes none were as solid and consistent as AOKP was. Then we all know the hybrid ROM's came about, based on several different builds. There is where I found Rootbox, to this day I don't think I'll ever find a more complete and stable ROM. Its too bad its dev dropped building, but good for him as he was finishing school.
After owning my Note 3 now since it hit the stores, I finally rooted and flashed about a month or better ago. I tried a few ROM's, wasn't impressed with anything.....then a friend recommended HyperDrive. I had been on Release 7 for about a month, and pretty damn happy. Recently I flashed to their Release 8, which is KitKat. Granted, I know development is still early on KK.....but I've just been overwhelmed with the errors and bugs. I am generally a patient person, but this "stable" release is far from my experience with the S3 ROM's. And I do take into consideration these are two very different devices, based on different builds of Android software also.
Am I being too critical? Should I just shut up and wait it out? Where is AOKP? Where are the other teams with their big builds? Are they beyond forums now, and strictly WikiRoot and Gooim? I don't even venture over there, so I may really be missing out all together. A quick glimpse at AOKP's site and I found Note3 nightlies for "Unified Note 3", no specific carrier. Is this for ALL devices Note 3? Am I getting too old for this stuff?
Someone pass me a beer. :laugh:
LXative said:
I got in to rooting and flashing when I was on my Samsung Fascinate, it was the device I learned the ropes on. By the time I was ready to upgrade devices, I was already running ICS on my Fascinate. We all know the history of the S3 and it being a flagship device for Samsung......and there were countless ROM builds for it. One of the most stable team builds I've ever been on was AOKP. Coming up through versions of OTA builds, AOKP was always on top....IMO. There were other ROM's that opened different customizations, but in my eyes none were as solid and consistent as AOKP was. Then we all know the hybrid ROM's came about, based on several different builds. There is where I found Rootbox, to this day I don't think I'll ever find a more complete and stable ROM. Its too bad its dev dropped building, but good for him as he was finishing school.
After owning my Note 3 now since it hit the stores, I finally rooted and flashed about a month or better ago. I tried a few ROM's, wasn't impressed with anything.....then a friend recommended HyperDrive. I had been on Release 7 for about a month, and pretty damn happy. Recently I flashed to their Release 8, which is KitKat. Granted, I know development is still early on KK.....but I've just been overwhelmed with the errors and bugs. I am generally a patient person, but this "stable" release is far from my experience with the S3 ROM's. And I do take into consideration these are two very different devices, based on different builds of Android software also.
Am I being too critical? Should I just shut up and wait it out? Where is AOKP? Where are the other teams with their big builds? Are they beyond forums now, and strictly WikiRoot and Gooim? I don't even venture over there, so I may really be missing out all together. A quick glimpse at AOKP's site and I found Note3 nightlies for "Unified Note 3", no specific carrier. Is this for ALL devices Note 3? Am I getting too old for this stuff?
Someone pass me a beer. :laugh:
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With a locked boot loader we're currently stuck with TW based ROMs. If you're having that many bugs on HyperDrive give a different ROM a try. I use a few different ones and do not have any issues at all.
Only the developer editions can run AOSP roms...retail devices are stuck with touch wiz because safestrap recvovery limits you to using the stock kernel only. I feel your pain with TW KitKat NC2...it is pretty buggy. Hoping the NC4 update will fix some things. For the mean time I am chillaxin on Beans MJE B.6
I can't believe you just asked that!
Request denied: Imma gonna kick you!!
I came from a Droid RAZR (original) that used Safestrap with a locked bootloader, but it had tons of AOSP and AOKP roms. What makes the Note 3 different?
Sent from my SM-N900V using XDA Free mobile app
Retail Note 3 is locked to the stock kernel, aosp uses a diff one. I think others like Bionic can use kexec to boot which was what they were looking into on NC2 since kernel modules are enabled (and why they told everyone not to take the ota)
Thanks for the replies. I will admit I know how to get rooted and flash ROM's, but don't know a whole lot about the guts of the phone along with these limitations.
So in short, the retail carrier phones are all TouchWhiz forever? I am pulling that correctly out of these replies? Or is this something that some of the cell phone hacking geniuses that bring us this whole side of the cellular world, actually be able to overcome to allow us to run AOSP?
On an additional note, are all devices going to be like this from here on out? I had no clue about a "developer edition" phone, how does one acquire such a device?
Man, I need to catch up on my lingo.
LXative said:
Thanks for the replies. I will admit I know how to get rooted and flash ROM's, but don't know a whole lot about the guts of the phone along with these limitations.
So in short, the retail carrier phones are all TouchWhiz forever? I am pulling that correctly out of these replies? Or is this something that some of the cell phone hacking geniuses that bring us this whole side of the cellular world, actually be able to overcome to allow us to run AOSP?
On an additional note, are all devices going to be like this from here on out? I had no clue about a "developer edition" phone, how does one acquire such a device?
Man, I need to catch up on my lingo.
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What you are use to no longer exists...Samsung is locking the device so tight these days, root will more then likely be a thing of the past. The VZW S5 has a 12k bounty just for root and nobody has cracked it. The developer editions are going to be the only way to root and flash roms. The downfall is you have to buy the device outright, no warranty, and samsung nor verizon provides updates for the DE. You would think no big deal, I will rely on Devs for updates, but there is a catch.
These days a lot of stuff is hidden in the bootloader partition that allows certain features of the device to work correctly. So If I want to upgrade from MJE to NC2 I need to flash a modified firmware pack. The problem is with DE is we can not flash that firmware pack without locking the bootloader. So we are then left with using a modfified stock kernel which allows us to use kitkat but we have to deal with certain bugs.
On a side note we can run AOSP all day with no issues being it uses its own kernel, but there is very few devs left working on Verizon devices. CM11 is all we have. I believe we can run some T-mobile roms with Apn edits.
The retail edition relies on Root privilidges for safe strap recovery to work. However since kernel modules are disabled on the latest update, kexec or any side load program that installs kernels will not work. Therfore Touchwiz is what all the retail devices can run.
It is really a no win situation at this point with Samsung devices on Verizon. Both Retail and DE have their own limitations.
I will probably continue to purchase Dev edition phones since I buy my device outright to keep unlimited. Also I am guranteed root capability to at the very least and I can mod my own stock rom. And if the retail gets a update down the road that is worthy of taking, I can choose to take it and lock the device. However as slow as verizon releases updates, I will most likely move on to another device before the update has any relevancy.
Your best bet is to move to T-mobile if you want a lot of development...I would but I am not sold on their service around my area.
Awesome, thanks for the break down.......it really helped me understand things a lot better.
Seems like I might just be best to flash back to stock and be happy as possible with the customization features Apex gives me. I REALLY don't understand the logic in locking the devs......no matter what they do, in the least someone is going to try to break into it.......especially if it is a popular device. It wouldn't be so bad on the other hand, if they would give us just some of the customization's that you can find in just about every custom ROM out there. You know they are paying attention to what the developers do on forums like this......but I personally really don't see them doing anything about it.
FYI, I too wanted to keep my data plan so I bought my Note 3 out right.....had no real clue about the dev edition though. From the sounds of it, I'm pretty discouraged about the current time and future of customization......especially for those of us who bought our phones out right. Pisses me off.
I've considered T-Mobile too, and it works fine everywhere but where I work. Being I get a stipend, I can't have a cell phone while I am at work.....that doesn't work. Or else I'd be long gone.
droidstyle said:
Only the developer editions can run AOSP roms...retail devices are stuck with touch wiz because safestrap recvovery limits you to using the stock kernel only. I feel your pain with TW KitKat NC2...it is pretty buggy. Hoping the NC4 update will fix some things. For the mean time I am chillaxin on Beans MJE B.6
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This. No need to go away from Beans mje build until I buy a new home...
Actually I was under the impression the leak allowed for an unsigned kernel and there was work on an AOSP rom for the vzw Note 3?
Morkai Almandragon said:
Actually I was under the impression the leak allowed for an unsigned kernel and there was work on an AOSP rom for the vzw Note 3?
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The leak allows a "possible" exploit of our bootloader that would allow kernel modification. I'm sure smart people are trying. But what I've heard is that even the smarties will find this hard to do. Plus we don't even know if it will work.
I guarantee you if someone finds a way, it will be supwr noticable where to find that info on the forum.
<Note3>
Not trying to derail the thread, but it sounds like a couple of you bought devices outright "to keep unlimited data." Despite what vzw customer service and tech support may say, that is not true at all. I and many others with unlimited got a subsidized N3 from vzw. If you have a non-unlimited line on your account due for an upgrade, use it to get subsidized N3 on same capped data plan. Activate N3 and make calls on it. Turn off both phones. Go online and transfer lines on myverizon. Change N3 to your unlimited phone number. Take SIM card out of your current unlimited device and put in N3, turn on and call the device activation number just like you had purchased a phone outright from third party. There's another step in there about lUk8dia753 reactivating the original phone back on its original capped line, but I forget when you do it. Google knows. The point is Verizon will subsidize new devices that end up on unlimited data plans. In a circuitous way, it's legally required by the conditions of their purchase of the block c spectrum - the open device rule.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
badchorizo said:
Not trying to derail the thread, but it sounds like a couple of you bought devices outright "to keep unlimited data." Despite what vzw customer service and tech support may say, that is not true at all. I and many others with unlimited got a subsidized N3 from vzw. If you have a non-unlimited line on your account due for an upgrade, use it to get subsidized N3 on same capped data plan. Activate N3 and make calls on it. Turn off both phones. Go online and transfer lines on myverizon. Change N3 to your unlimited phone number. Take SIM card out of your current unlimited device and put in N3, turn on and call the device activation number just like you had purchased a phone outright from third party. There's another step in there about lUk8dia753 reactivating the original phone back on its original capped line, but I forget when you do it. Google knows. The point is Verizon will subsidize new devices that end up on unlimited data plans. In a circuitous way, it's legally required by the conditions of their purchase of the block c spectrum - the open device rule.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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True but that does not work when the other lines on your account already have used their upgrade and are out 2yrs before they can upgrade. So from July 2012- July 2014, I have to buy my device outright to keep unlimited.
Being someone who is trying to learn about rooting etc. I have found this thread very useful. To me if I choose to root a phone the biggest benefits I see would be getting rid of bloat and the UI. I love "plain" Android and Nexus devices, I like things simple, uncluttered, as I believe the way Google intends for it to be.
So if I understand this correctly at this point with a rooted Note3 I can not enjoy the benefits of running a stock JB or KK rom as it was straight from Google? Something about a locked bootloader is preventing these type of roms from running on our devices as of now, and who knows for how long?
mgftp said:
Being someone who is trying to learn about rooting etc. I have found this thread very useful. To me if I choose to root a phone the biggest benefits I see would be getting rid of bloat and the UI. I love "plain" Android and Nexus devices, I like things simple, uncluttered, as I believe the way Google intends for it to be.
So if I understand this correctly at this point with a rooted Note3 I can not enjoy the benefits of running a stock JB or KK rom as it was straight from Google? Something about a locked bootloader is preventing these type of roms from running on our devices as of now, and who knows for how long?
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You and I both - I find a huge attraction with the Nexus devices. Problem is, I'm on a carrier that refuses to carry them because they can't load adware on the phone and make a huge profit on what is already a huge profit (Verizon Wireless). I spent most of my youth on T-Mobile so when I got the Droid 1 on Verizon, I was pretty happy - better reception, etc... but the whole concept of adware really ticked me off. Without adware we could get a lot better battery life. These apps were running in the background of a phone I bought and paid money for (or promised $ for 2 years). What gives them the right to load it with adware?
The HTC Thunderbolt on Verizon - I was the first few to get it... The Blockbuster app glitched and was stuck downloading gigs of movie thumbnails. This killed the phone in 5-6 hours - no matter how many times you killed the app, it would start up and go downloading again till your battery ran out. Not only was Verizon forcing adware but the adware apps were so poorly programmed it drove me to Apple. Good job Google/Verizon! So after a few years of Apple (adware less phones) and relative bliss.... I went back to Android with the Moto X and now the Note 3. Sure, freezing Adware is nice... but rooting still provided much better battery life.
I'm one of those people who doesn't understand the idea of paying Direct TV/Cable TV $120+/mo for them to make $$$$ off of you via advertisements. If I pay retail for my phone (Verizon Edge plan) - I expect it to be mine.
I'm a sucker for ASOP.... but after owning the Note 3 for awhile (rooted) - I highly recommend you try it out. I'm getting insane battery life, the OS is light and fast, I run a custom launcher (Nova), and there is absolutely no adware/app that runs on my phone that I don't want. My only fear is... after the Note 3 (since the S5 is impossible to root and most likely the Note 4) - what will we have? Google Play Editions??? This mystical expensive Silver editions???
I'll try to keep my Note 3 as long as I can but if Google is getting rid of the Nexus lineup .... either I'll have to go back to T-Mobile - they do pay the ETF. Quite a few of the Verizon Note 3 devs left for T-Mobile.
Back to your post ---- there are quite a few lightweight roms to flashs on the Note 3 even a 600mb one!
droidstyle said:
True but that does not work when the other lines on your account already have used their upgrade and are out 2yrs before they can upgrade. So from July 2012- July 2014, I have to buy my device outright to keep unlimited.
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You can transfer your upgrade to one of those lines. That's what I did - the capped line I used isn't due for an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but mine was up back in December. So I "gave" that upgrade to the capped line, bought a Note 3, and then swapped sims.
shaw0050 said:
You can transfer your upgrade to one of those lines. That's what I did - the capped line I used isn't due for an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but mine was up back in December. So I "gave" that upgrade to the capped line, bought a Note 3, and then swapped sims.
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Not sure how you accomplished that but I tried and was told I would lose unlimited if I transfered my upgrade to another line. Aside from that I will probably continue to purchase developer devices being Samsung retail devices can no longer be rooted.
droidstyle said:
Not sure how you accomplished that but I tried and was told I would lose unlimited if I transfered my upgrade to another line. Aside from that I will probably continue to purchase developer devices being Samsung retail devices can no longer be rooted.
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If you are interested in a retail device and using your upgrade you can purchase from an online retailer such as best buy and select keep old plan and ship to home. As long as you insert your current sim card before powering it on and discard the new one they send you you will keep your UDP and have your contract extended two years when you power up the new device. The trigger to knock you off UDP is tied to the new sim, nothing else. There are many threads around various forums regarding this but look at android central and slickdeals if you wanna know more.
Slickdeals thread: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6964624
i kept unlimited by upgrading a basic phone (with no data plan) on my plan to the note 3, then switching it to my line.
edit: but i dont know how you get 20GB with reqular use. i get about 4-5gb with regular use, and my highest was 18gb in a month by USB tethering to my computer and torrenting a bunch of "linux software distros".