It appears that the only methods that have been used to expand webtop focus on mounting an alternative webtop on an external SD card and using the alternative webtop instead of (or in addition to) the standard webtop (webtopMod, webtop2SD, simpletop, etc. all do this in one form or another).
Has anyone played around with resizing the the sdcard partition (mmcblk0p18) so that it is smaller and then resizing the webtop partition (mmcblk0p13) to a more appropriate size (~4G)?
I see that something similar has been done on the Nook (that is, people have changed the internal memory partition sizes without tragic consequences):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22157605&postcount=25
As for know (I don't know much) the trouble with the partitions it's that everythings works with that layout, recoverys must be rewritten to accept that partition layout, or something.
Besides, why you want WebTop, when you can have Android ICS/JB? .
Contrary to popular belief (and driven by how it works on computers), the partition table is NOT a part of the internal storage. It is most likely defined within the bootloader which, while can be hacked to allow flashing unsigned content (so called BL unlock), is both entirely closed off and extremely sensitive. Hardbricks can happen almost effortlessly if you try to tamper with it. That's why nobody has managed (yet?) to do any kind of alteration of the partition layout on the Atrix.
I would also like to point out when it comes to such low-level stuff trying to compare two completely different devices is often time dangerous and almost always misleading, so I'd avoid that if I were you. The fact this or that is possible on some other device in some certain way will have almost nothing to do with the Atrix (unless the device is really similar enough, like say the Photon).
Ravilov,
I thought that the bootloader would just need to point to the bootable partition. I thought all of the disks/devices would have their own GPT or MBR record that the system would use when it mounts those devices. It looks like just about most everything is mounted from init.rc (even mmcblk0p13, aka OSH).
I am not saying that this idea is without risk, but I guess I am surprised that someone hasn't been brave (foolish?) enough to try it and report back.
tamuin said:
Ravilov,
I thought that the bootloader would just need to point to the bootable partition. I thought all of the disks/devices would have their own GPT or MBR record that the system would use when it mounts those devices. It looks like just about most everything is mounted from init.rc (even mmcblk0p13, aka OSH).
I am not saying that this idea is without risk, but I guess I am surprised that someone hasn't been brave (foolish?) enough to try it and report back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be true if we were talking about NORMAL computer harddrives. But we're not. There is no such thing as MBR or GPT or even an "active" partition - this is a much different world.
BTW the bootloader is about 10 MB in size, it contains MUCH MUCH more than just some code to boot a system. For example, the whole fastboot protocol is implemented there, and I believe the offline charging (when the phone is off) complete with its graphics is also in there.
By the time the system reaches ramdisk (ie. init.rc), the partition table has already been set up and the devices nodes created.
Beware however, I have no 100% solid evidence to this, this is just an educated guess (to me this would make the most sense).
> That would be true if we were talking about NORMAL computer harddrives. But we're not.
That is my concern too.
One thing that might work is to repartition mmcblk0p18 into two partitions, the first being a smaller FAT partition and the second being an ext3 partition (mmcblk0p19). We would not need to move/resize anything else (and it looks like CWM does not normally do anything with mmcblk0p18). A full featured webtop could then be put in mmcblk0p19 and it could be mounted as OSH in init.rc.
Of course this doesn't make any better use of the internal storage space, the only thing it does is that it would put the modified webtop in the internal storage which appears to have faster write speed than class 10 micro SD cards.
The benefits are probably not worth the risk and effort.
tamuin said:
One thing that might work is to repartition mmcblk0p18 into two partitions, the first being a smaller FAT partition and the second being an ext3 partition (mmcblk0p19). We would not need to move/resize anything else (and it looks like CWM does not normally do anything with mmcblk0p18). A full featured webtop could then be put in mmcblk0p19 and it could be mounted as OSH in init.rc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't do that. Despite it not having a "standard" partition table, some rules still apply - for example, you cannot partition a partition. Even if you could, what would the new partitions be called? mmcblk0p18a and mmcblk0p18b? Not going to work. The whole entire system is hardwired to use mmcblk0p18 and only that. Plus, you cannot have a root partition as you suggest (mmcblk0p19) that's contained within another partition, it just doesn't make any sense.
Trust me, the webtop2sd and similar ideas didn't come out of nowhere. If there was a decently safe way to change the internal repartitioning with the knowledge we have, it would have been done by now. The only way to do this that I know of is to either change the bootloader or the kernel. The bootloader is obviously out of the question, and I suppose nobody's ever felt the need to mess with the kernel just for this seemingly insignificant thing, when there's a perfectly good workaround (webtop2sd).
Related
Hey guys ive been lurking around for a while troubleshooting my builds, I have figured out that when I run my android build off of the sd card by itself everything runs well, but once i put in my 10GB of music everything starts to fall appart and i get sod after a minute or two in the lockscreen. I was wondering if creating a separate ext2 partition for android to boot from and keeping my data on the other partition would provide me with any more stability. BTW im using the stock 16 gig class 2 card that came with the phone
Where on the SD card is your music? Root or in the Android folder. I ask because I have a 2 year old 8GB class 4 SD card that came with my preloaded CGO8 navigation (ICO8, but for US) and have never formatted. I've loaded most of the Android builds and most I've had no problems, other than typical for the build.
SD cards are digital. Unlike analog hard disks data is not fragmented. Formatting does not serve a useful purpose for an SD card. Even deleting files (except protected) deleting is just as, if not more, effective.
Do some research, think independently to come up with your own conclusions, but these are mine.
Oh, by the way, this is not the right forum for your question....you should have done some research before posting.
i was not asking about formating i was asking about partitioning and if running android from an ext2 partition on the sd card would create more stability on the build
audscott said:
SD cards are digital. Unlike analog hard disks data is not fragmented.
Do some research, think independently to come up with your own conclusions, but these are mine.
Oh, by the way, this is not the right forum for your question....you should have done some research before posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Analog hard disks? No fragmentation on flash media? Wow, sounds like you need to do some research...
I also have the same issue where if I put Android along with my music on the 16gb card, it gets stuck at jumping to kernal on reboot.
im copying my music on the new sd now will report back if the problem persists, but i have a feeling that running off of an ext2 partition will provide us with better r/w speeds, similar to ubuntu running on an ntfs partition instead of ext4
Having music (anything else) on your SD card should not really affect Android. Most builds are in an 'Android' folder, so that is where the system looks for its information. This may slow things down a bit (just like an overloaded HDD) but generally there should not be much difference.
Creating and ext2 partition will not help. Of course, now that I have said that, I have an ext2 partition on my SD card that was left from using my rooted G1 with cyanogen mod and Apps2SD. By default, my android build on my HD2 automatically looked in that partition for apps (froyo does this).
So, I do not think it will change anything about freezing or 'jumping to kernal' but it does have its uses.
EDIT: And, since WinMo is actually booting android, I don't think containing your android stuff in an .ext2 partition would even work. Needs to be FAT32 for haret to see it. (this is my assumption, not necessarily a fact)
Isn't the rootfs.img file actually like a simulated ext2 filesystem? Doesn't this file emulate the device memory? I'm not exactly sure, maybe someone else can expand on this. I don't think there is any benefit to partitioning the card in the current state of the hd2's development. Maybe when we are able to flash nand, nand will be formatted to ext2.
polo735 said:
Isn't the rootfs.img file actually like a simulated ext2 filesystem? Doesn't this file emulate the device memory? I'm not exactly sure, maybe someone else can expand on this. I don't think there is any benefit to partitioning the card in the current state of the hd2's development. Maybe when we are able to flash nand, nand will be formatted to ext2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there is that and the system.ext2 and data.img. This is all the files in Android (basically).
But with these files, android knows where to look to find them, placing them in your own ext2 partition will hide them from android.
When we are able to flash to nand (and now) an ext2 partition will allow you to store apps on that partition, given you are able to move apps to SD, which is not currently possible in our builds.
I installed apps to my SD card on my G1 (on an ext2 partition), so when I used Froyo on my HD2, android was able to read from that partition and use my old apps. All that means is that I did not have to reinstall all my old apps, and save space in the data.img created by android.
audscott said:
Where on the SD card is your music? Root or in the Android folder. I ask because I have a 2 year old 8GB class 4 SD card that came with my preloaded CGO8 navigation (ICO8, but for US) and have never formatted. I've loaded most of the Android builds and most I've had no problems, other than typical for the build.
SD cards are digital. Unlike analog hard disks data is not fragmented. Formatting does not serve a useful purpose for an SD card. Even deleting files (except protected) deleting is just as, if not more, effective.
Do some research, think independently to come up with your own conclusions, but these are mine.
Oh, by the way, this is not the right forum for your question....you should have done some research before posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, before you call someone out you might want to do some research of your own so you don't come across looking like a moron. Fragmentation happens regardless of the actual hardware, and most file systems are vulnerable (whether it be fat, ntfs, ext2, ext4, etc). And while deleting files and reformatting end in the same result, a quick reformat makes far fewer writes to the card by simply wiping the allocation table. Each file name must be modified individually if you delete them, adding unnecessary wear to the card. As for a hard drive being "analog", it stores its data the same way as a memory card - 0's and 1's - which is digital. Just a little refresher there.
Now, as for the question at hand, which is completely appropriate for this forum as it directly concerns the development and installation of android on our HD2's, the use of ext2 for the android files has been done successfully on other winmo devices in order to increase stability and speed in the system. In fact I have done this very thing on my Kaiser in the past. Whether its possible with our current HD2 setup is another matter, so I'll direct you to these links - do a little reading and play around with it, let us know what you find. I'll probably look at it myself this weekend as a stop-gap until a full NAND flash becomes available, which hopefully is sooner rather than later - I'll report back if I find something.
http://www.androidonhtc.com/wiki/Installing_Android
http://android-devs.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=194&sid=69cc2d8c93262ff8c70de594d50e5874
In my own experience, I have a 4Gig class 10 and 16Gig class 2 (stock).
I use my 4Gig for Android test runs.
I use my 16Gig for my Android currently in use.
I have my Music in at the root /Music
Android is in the traditional /Android
Any pics I take I just move over /DCIM
I haven't experience any corruption. Before testing, I format the SD card on my computer with 64k or 32K blocks. I copy over my saved /Music and /DCIM and then load the new Android in /Android.
ALWAYS Eject the SD card. Keeping those rules and I haven't had issues.
Well I switched to my other 16gig class 2 and my problems went away, it seems the stock card was going bad but not using a 20yr old file system would be nice regardless
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
... oh, and about fragmentation, I'm not a software engineer (I'm electronics engineer), but I wouldn't get too worried about SD card fragmentation. It can happen, but not in the same way as a physical HD.
SD cards can do random access reads/writes much better than a physical hard drive. However, if you've formatted your blocks too small, the controller has to piece together two bits of info instead of one.
Example: 64k file written to 8k formatted SD, will have to piece together 8 blocks.
A 64k file written to 64k formatted SD is written all to one block.
The flip-side is if you have a bunch of small files (1k - 5k) and you're formatted at 64k, you've just wasted 63k of a 64k block writing a 1k file. It's inefficient.
willgill said:
Example: 64k file written to 8k formatted SD, will have to piece together 8 blocks.
A 64k file written to 64k formatted SD is written all to one block.
The flip-side is if you have a bunch of small files (1k - 5k) and you're formatted at 64k, you've just wasted 63k of a 64k block writing a 1k file. It's inefficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering the sizes of most music and picture files these days and the fact that all Android little files are inside one large file, I believe going with 64k blocks would be better. Even going with a larger block size than 64k might be a good idea. Too bad 64k is the limit.
Larger block sizes might be inefficient when dealing with system folders like C drive in windows or system folder in linux since they contain a huge number of small files. That is why windows default is 4k.
Hey everyone!
Is there a way to method yet for the S2 to rewrite the partitions? My S2 will be arriving today, replacing my Desire Z, and so the only reason I ask is because I like a simple partition where there is one for the phone and one for the sdcard (especially when it comes to using CWM and such).
Like on a harddrive, rather than having two partitions, like this case where there is the "internal memory" of 1gb or whatever it is, and then the remainder 16gig (not including the sdcard) is read AS an external. Could it be simply rewritten for the internal to be ~17gb? I do remember rewriting partition size on the G1 to get Cyanogenmod 6 to fit on it.
Just curious, please don't flame me if this is not feasible (or has been already done, again I don't have the phone yet and I haven't come across anything in my research, and yes I did search for it, even used "partition" to find anything).
mrmartin86 said:
Hey everyone!
Is there a way to method yet for the S2 to rewrite the partitions? My S2 will be arriving today, replacing my Desire Z, and so the only reason I ask is because I like a simple partition where there is one for the phone and one for the sdcard (especially when it comes to using CWM and such).
Like on a harddrive, rather than having two partitions, like this case where there is the "internal memory" of 1gb or whatever it is, and then the remainder 16gig (not including the sdcard) is read AS an external. Could it be simply rewritten for the internal to be ~17gb? I do remember rewriting partition size on the G1 to get Cyanogenmod 6 to fit on it.
Just curious, please don't flame me if this is not feasible (or has been already done, again I don't have the phone yet and I haven't come across anything in my research, and yes I did search for it, even used "partition" to find anything).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm... Why would you want that? Explanation makes no sense.
You get about 500 MB system, 2 GB data, can't remember cache, then 11 GB as sdcard, with external sd optional.
You could modify the pit in theory but that's risky, and what you are trying seems confused or outdated for this phone
pulser_g2 said:
Hmm... Why would you want that? Explanation makes no sense.
You get about 500 MB system, 2 GB data, can't remember cache, then 11 GB as sdcard, with external sd optional.
You could modify the pit in theory but that's risky, and what you are trying seems confused or outdated for this phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I am just thinking from my experience with the Captivate that it poses some "oddness" when dealing with the sdcard and things like CWM, since when you put an sdcard it, it then has 3 partitions (internal, "internal extention," and the sdcard). Is there a reason the extra space is partitioned out instead of having it as part of the internal?
With nvflash it was easy to just modify the partition layout and size with nvflash.cfg, is there anything that a non-developer like me can do with Odin to mimic that ease of use?
IE, I easily pass 2GB of Apps (Games, Programs, work stuff, you name it) hence my question and issue I am currently facing.
I have a 32GB MicroSD card and I would like to at least TRY and get it setup like my Asus Transformer is, IE all of the phones Internal storage dedicated to applications, and the external, my MicroSD to videos/music/extra app-data. (oh and the REAL SDCard is mounted as /sdcard, I hate the way they do it now, when I do to /sdcard I want to be ON MY SDCARD!)
Is this something I can do, or must someone with even a fraction of Developer knowledge (IE not me) have to set this up prior? (If so, it probably means its a bust question I guess)
FTR: My want would eliminate the "USB Storage" seen in the Storage screen when you look in settings, and I am ok with that)
EDIT: I found some threads about the .pit file, but it all seems quite a bit out-dated (for devices prior that didnt split apps/media) and missing bits and pieces that would make it truly useful for a non-dev like me... will keep digging however...
After installing CM-9 (and testing CM-10), I don't see myself going back to the stock ROM. Samsung includes a lot of really large apps, so a stock SGS3 needs large /cache and /system partitions. With Cyanogenmod and all my apps installed and configured, /system has 1.1 GB free space and /cache has 900 MB. Is there any reason not to repartition to steal an extra gig for /data (that would be used for /sdcard)? Is this even doable?
fenstre said:
After installing CM-9 (and testing CM-10), I don't see myself going back to the stock ROM. Samsung includes a lot of really large apps, so a stock SGS3 needs large /cache and /system partitions. With Cyanogenmod and all my apps installed and configured, /system has 1.1 GB free space and /cache has 900 MB. Is there any reason not to repartition to steal an extra gig for /data (that would be used for /sdcard)? Is this even doable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android Original Development their is a new thread in that regard .
jje
all those free space will sit empty. you have to bear with it. there are some advanced methods to repartition it, but its too rsiky and is not worth the risk unless you are an expert in linux and dev stuffs.
and some apps in the system partition is better than empty space
Thanks, guys. I found the thread you mentioned (this?). It looks like people use Odin to repartition these phones. I rooted without using Odin, so I didn't know.
I would actually be fairly comfortable doing things the linux way (resizing partitions with fdisk, using dd to move data around, and reformatting when necessary). The problem is that if the partition table gets messed up even once, the device will probably become a paperweight. It's not like Linux where you can just boot from a CD then restore your old partition table. If my S3 won't boot into recovery, I can't make any more changes to the partition table.
I think I'll just be patient for now--it seems like people are running into problems using Odin to repartition their phones. Maybe I can use up the extra space by playing more games
If you don't touch the first partitions (very small Samsung-specific ones) you'll be fine since the phone can boot recovery and use a PIT file.
Worst case your phone is completely dead and needs Jtag'ing from a phone repair shop (I hear the cost is around 50$) which will re-flash download mode/bootloaders on the phone through direct hardware access.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Thanks, I'll think about that. The problem with just messing with the later partitions is that there's just one partition table and it's in the (logical) front of the drive. Mess that up and it won't boot recovery. Flashing from download mode shouldn't work either, because when you flash that way you're flashing specific partitions (which will no longer exist as they used to). (Edit: forgot Odin can flash .pit files. I haven't used Odin yet.)
I need to do a bit of research, partly because I'm in Asia. If local repair shops have JTAG units and if I convince myself that even a ruined partition table is recoverable, I'll do it!
I have this Atrix now for a few days and want to examine it. It is one of my favourite devices since it was released years ago.
I will start to tamper with it, and try custom Roms etc. But first of all i want to make a full backup of the device, so i can probably recover it fast and without hassle in the future. I also use Huawei Ideos X5 and i have full Raw backups of its 4GB emmc (2GB part is used as an internal SD originally). I backup and restore these images with the basic free program "Roadkil's Disk Image" in Windows.
As we all know, to use this program or similar disk backup programs, we have to reach the phone's whole disk (called emmc or internal card, i guess). In Ideos X5 the procedure is as follows;
1) Make sure the bootloader is unlocked.
2) Open the phone to reach the "pink screen" by pressing VolUP+VolDOWN+POWER buttons at the same time.
3) When you see the pink screen connect the phone to the PC via USB.
4) The disk is reachable now, use a sector based backup program such as "Roadkil's Disk Image" (sometimes called Forensic Copy).
OK, it's a brief explanation but clear enough, i guess. Now i want to do the same thing in Atrix, since i unlocked the bootloader and installed CM7.2 to it, 6-7 months ago, while my relative was using it.
I connect the phone to the PC in Fastboot and RSD modes, but i can't reach the disk itself. The adb and fastboot commands work, the connection is successful, but neither Windows, nor Linux Mint sees the 16GB disk. So, full Raw backup seems impossible in this manner!
I searched the Atrix forum widely, but couldn't find a solution. There are threads of making Nandroid backups or partition based backups with a different approach which i didn't try yet. For example:
"[INFO] Backup the pds partition of your Atrix!"
Link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1138220
I can learn and apply this commandline method but 4GB Fat32 file limit will probably be the base problem. Taking the backup directly to the NTFS HDD on PC can be a solution but, has anyone tried it?
It seems that, important partitions are backed up using ADB /shell commands. But i believe that full disk backups may be the best way to recover a phone in some situations. I know that backing up the whole disk including also the 10,7 GB internal SD part is useless, time and space consuming. But recovering the phone totally to a previous state is sometimes fatally important or advantageous. ie:
* Recover the phone when the IMEI is gone somehow,
* Recover the phone when the partitions are resized
* Recover the phone when partition table is corrupted or partitions are lost
* Move between your installed Roms without worrying about all the procedure, wipes, resizes, bla bla...
* ......
Anyway, here comes my main question:
Is it possible to reach the 16GB disk of Atrix from PC? If so, how?
Thanks in advance.
Be-Mine said:
I have this Atrix now for a few days and want to examine it. It is one of my favourite devices since it was released years ago.
I will start to tamper with it, and try custom Roms etc. But first of all i want to make a full backup of the device, so i can probably recover it fast and without hassle in the future. I also use Huawei Ideos X5 and i have full Raw backups of its 4GB emmc (2GB part is used as an internal SD originally). I backup and restore these images with the basic free program "Roadkil's Disk Image" in Windows.
As we all know, to use this program or similar disk backup programs, we have to reach the phone's whole disk (called emmc or internal card, i guess). In Ideos X5 the procedure is as follows;
1) Make sure the bootloader is unlocked.
2) Open the phone to reach the "pink screen" by pressing VolUP+VolDOWN+POWER buttons at the same time.
3) When you see the pink screen connect the phone to the PC via USB.
4) The disk is reachable now, use a sector based backup program such as "Roadkil's Disk Image" (sometimes called Forensic Copy).
OK, it's a brief explanation but clear enough, i guess. Now i want to do the same thing in Atrix, since i unlocked the bootloader and installed CM7.2 to it, 6-7 months ago, while my relative was using it.
I connect the phone to the PC in Fastboot and RSD modes, but i can't reach the disk itself. The adb and fastboot commands work, the connection is successful, but neither Windows, nor Linux Mint sees the 16GB disk. So, full Raw backup seems impossible in this manner!
I searched the Atrix forum widely, but couldn't find a solution. There are threads of making Nandroid backups or partition based backups with a different approach which i didn't try yet. For example:
"[INFO] Backup the pds partition of your Atrix!"
Link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1138220
I can learn and apply this commandline method but 4GB Fat32 file limit will probably be the base problem. Taking the backup directly to the NTFS HDD on PC can be a solution but, has anyone tried it?
It seems that, important partitions are backed up using ADB /shell commands. But i believe that full disk backups may be the best way to recover a phone in some situations. I know that backing up the whole disk including also the 10,7 GB internal SD part is useless, time and space consuming. But recovering the phone totally to a previous state is sometimes fatally important or advantageous. ie:
* Recover the phone when the IMEI is gone somehow,
* Recover the phone when the partitions are resized
* Recover the phone when partition table is corrupted or partitions are lost
* Move between your installed Roms without worrying about all the procedure, wipes, resizes, bla bla...
* ......
Anyway, here comes my main question:
Is it possible to reach the 16GB disk of Atrix from PC? If so, how?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
System + data (internal storage) is your 16GB. You'll backup system and your internal storage to get what you're looking for. And to the best of my knoledge, sbf'ing will do the rest. IMEI may be somewhere else, not sure. Afaik we don't have a tool to edit some advanced stuff like the latest qualcomm devices do.
Sent from my ATRIX HD using XDA Free mobile app
Sector by sector Raw image backup and restore options in Android devices!
I guess i couldn't explain the issue clearly.
The 16GB Atrix disk that i meant, is the main memory block which is exactly 15.914.762.240 bytes in total. This memory consists of 3 primary and 14 logical partitions. Some of these can be considered as the /recovery, /boot, /pds, /cdrom, /osh, /system, /cache, /data, /emmc(~11GB internal SD).... etc. partitions:
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From what i've learned from the below links;
[DEV][REF] El Grande Partition Table Reference
[GUIDE] Making Dump Files Out of Android Device Partitions
[GUIDE] How to make a nandroid backup directly to your computer without using sdcard
these partitions can be backed-up and restored within terminal emulator or ADB, with the help of the so-called "dd method" (which i will research more)!
Backup of the whole 16GB memory block is also possible regarding to these links, but restore of this whole block image seems impossible, which is the main problem!
Now, let me explain the weird situation on my ancient Huawei Ideos X5 phone. If i connect the Ideos X5 to the PC with the "pink screen" (by pressing VolUP+VolDOWN+POWER buttons), the phone's whole 4GB memory block is reachable. Eventually i can do whatever i want with the phone, because the memory block is seen as a USB disk to the Windows,Linux,etc:
Here are the possibilities that i can do (and already did) with the Huawei Ideos X5:
1) Intelligent sector copy of the recognized partitions.
Only data blocks are backed up and restored on ext2/ext3/ext4,Fat32 partitions, so the backup files are small. But the other unknown partitions can't be backed up with this method.
2) Forensic copy of the partitions.
Sector by sector Raw copy is made, so the backup file is exactly the same as the partition size. All known and unknown partitions can be backed up and restored with this method.
3) Forensic copy of the whole disk (full memory block)
The whole memory block is copied (raw backup) and restored. The image file size is exactly the same as the disk size (But can be zipped afterwards to reduce the size.)
I checked the forum widely, now i understand that the "pink screen" property is unique to the Ideos X5! Most of the devices (if not all) seem to NOT support this option. The whole memory block is NOT reachable within the Windows, Linux, etc. It's only available with ADB or within the device from the terminal emulator.
As a result, i won't be able to make full Raw image backups and restores of the whole disk of Atrix, which also seems impossible on the other devices.
If we find a method to reach the memory blocks of the devices as a USB HDD within OSes (just like in Ideos X5), then we will be able to do full backup and restores which is important in some situations as i described before. (But we may brick the devices easier also )
But i believe that full disk backups may be the best way to recover a phone in some situations. I know that backing up the whole disk including also the 10,7 GB internal SD part is useless, time and space consuming. But recovering the phone totally to a previous state is sometimes fatally important or advantageous. ie:
* Recover the phone when the IMEI is gone somehow,
* Recover the phone when the partitions are resized
* Recover the phone when partition table is corrupted or partitions are lost
* Move between your (previously) installed Roms without worrying about all the procedures, wipes, resizes, bla bla...
* ......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please share your opinions.
Be-Mine said:
I guess i couldn't explain the issue clearly.
The 16GB Atrix disk that i meant, is the main memory block which is exactly 15.914.762.240 bytes in total. This memory consists of 3 primary and 14 logical partitions. Some of these can be considered as the /recovery, /boot, /pds, /cdrom, /osh, /system, /cache, /data, /emmc(~11GB internal SD).... etc. partitions:
From what i've learned from the below links;
[DEV][REF] El Grande Partition Table Reference
[GUIDE] Making Dump Files Out of Android Device Partitions
[GUIDE] How to make a nandroid backup directly to your computer without using sdcard
these partitions can be backed-up and restored within terminal emulator or ADB, with the help of the so-called "dd method" (which i will research more)!
Backup of the whole 16GB memory block is also possible regarding to these links, but restore of this whole block image seems impossible, which is the main problem!
Now, let me explain the weird situation on my ancient Huawei Ideos X5 phone. If i connect the Ideos X5 to the PC with the "pink screen" (by pressing VolUP+VolDOWN+POWER buttons), the phone's whole 4GB memory block is reachable. Eventually i can do whatever i want with the phone, because the memory block is seen as a USB disk to the Windows,Linux,etc:
Here are the possibilities that i can do (and already did) with the Huawei Ideos X5:
1) Intelligent sector copy of the recognized partitions.
Only data blocks are backed up and restored on ext2/ext3/ext4,Fat32 partitions, so the backup files are small. But the other unknown partitions can't be backed up with this method.
2) Forensic copy of the partitions.
Sector by sector Raw copy is made, so the backup file is exactly the same as the partition size. All known and unknown partitions can be backed up and restored with this method.
3) Forensic copy of the whole disk (full memory block)
The whole memory block is copied (raw backup) and restored. The image file size is exactly the same as the disk size (But can be zipped afterwards to reduce the size.)
I checked the forum widely, now i understand that the "pink screen" property is unique to the Ideos X5! Most of the devices (if not all) seem to NOT support this option. The whole memory block is NOT reachable within the Windows, Linux, etc. It's only available with ADB or within the device from the terminal emulator.
As a result, i won't be able to make full Raw image backups and restores of the whole disk of Atrix, which also seems impossible on the other devices.
If we find a method to reach the memory blocks of the devices as a USB HDD within OSes (just like in Ideos X5), then we will be able to do full backup and restores which is important in some situations as i described before. (But we may brick the devices easier also )
Please share your opinions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, i'm getting the drift of what you are trying to do now. For that, there is a thread regarding dual booting. I'll dig that up and give you the link. For that, we dd'd via adb in recovery. I'll need to dig into my files for a bit more specifics, but hang tight and i'll get you the info i know
Sent from my ATRIX HD using XDA Free mobile app
palmbeach05 said:
Ok, i'm getting the drift of what you are trying to do now. For that, there is a thread regarding dual booting. I'll dig that up and give you the link. For that, we dd'd via adb in recovery. I'll need to dig into my files for a bit more specifics, but hang tight and i'll get you the info i know
Sent from my ATRIX HD using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, my ultimate goal is not a multi-boot. I triple-boot in my PC but i was never eager of this in Android devices. If i had very large memory blocks (32GB,64GB) in my devices, i would try it already. But i think multi-booting may negatively effect the storage partitions on Ideos X5 and Atrix (especially the /system, /cache, /data partitions ?)
Anyway, i will check that link and informations based on dual booting Atrix, comparing CM7 vs CM10 easily on Atrix can be very interesting.
But my main concern is reaching the whole memory blocks of the devices within windows/linux directly as a USB-HDD, probably with the help of a hack or a patch.
Thanks for all :good:
Be-Mine said:
Actually, my ultimate goal is not a multi-boot. I triple-boot in my PC but i was never eager of this in Android devices. If i had very large memory blocks (32GB,64GB) in my devices, i would try it already. But i think multi-booting may negatively effect the storage partitions on Ideos X5 and Atrix (especially the /system, /cache, /data partitions ?)
Anyway, i will check that link and informations based on dual booting Atrix, comparing CM7 vs CM10 easily on Atrix can be very interesting.
But my main concern is reaching the whole memory blocks of the devices within windows/linux directly as a USB-HDD, probably with the help of a hack or a patch.
Thanks for all :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the dual boot mentioning ties into the dd method.
This might be more up the alley of your main concern http://www.paragon-drivers.com/extfs-windows/
On a side note, dual booting on this device can be done on a 16GB sd card, but for space reasons (compensation for space lost to do dual boot), a 32GB is a bit more recommended for this, plus it adds a bit more memory in the process.
palmbeach05 said:
Well the dual boot mentioning ties into the dd method.
This might be more up the alley of your main concern http://www.paragon-drivers.com/extfs-windows/
On a side note, dual booting on this device can be done on a 16GB sd card, but for space reasons (compensation for space lost to do dual boot), a 32GB is a bit more recommended for this, plus it adds a bit more memory in the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only my issue was that simple, but unfortunately not.
The link you gave is of a basic software to work with linux file systems from Windows. I can already achieve this when needed, using similar software like Explore2fs, Ext2explore, etc.
But the case is very different. The whole memory block (disk) of the devices are not accessible as a USB disk within OSes (both Linux and windows, and also MacOS most probably) natively. The full disk is only accessible from ADB, or the phone itself. So native disk softwares can't be used, especially for full backup and restore purposes.
From what i understood from my researchs, "dd method" seems the Linux alternative to make sector based backups and restores. But even dd can't be used to restore the memory block. Because, to restore, we have to access the disk when the phone is not used , AFAIK.
That's why Huawei Ideos X5 "pink screen" option seems very rare, extreme and useful. Please take a look at the links i gave in my previous posts, you'll get what i mean.
Anyway, dual-booting Atrix is still another interesting issue to research for me.
AFAIK you can't directly map the raw Atrix eMMC to a block device on Atrix, at least not via USB, using standard tools. And you definitely wouldn't want to do this in write mode (The tegra2 on Atrix has a strict boot protocol. It's so strict that IIRC it even requires an encrypted/digitally signed boot loader which resides on the beginning of the drive. AFAIK you can't even mess with partition table).
I guess you could use a custom recovery mod for doing that if all you want is to read the eMMC as a block. The linux kernel has a mass storage gadget which can expose a block device as an usb drive. You'd need to point /dev/block/mmcblk0 to it and voila (see for instance http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/file_storage.html). Old android uses it for mounting your storage areas when you plug it to a host usb. Newer uses other methods as you need exclusive device access for safely writing to the storage partitions.
And as you can't have read-write partitions mounted while you're playing with the same block device, and AFAIK a recovery is fine with read only mounts, contrary to a normal android boot, you could go with it. But check that e.g. /data is mounted ro, some recoveries mount it rw by default.
I think there's a way to use adb in recovery, if you can get a root console via adb then you may be able to use a standard recovery to command the usb mass storage gadget without need to customize a recovery.
Btw, I think the usb gadget only exposes the device in read-write mode, so there's nothing preventing you or some application of attempting to write to the device, and this would probably be a bad idea. So watch out if you want to do that, people got hurt for doing less hacking :silly:
@PolesApart
Thanks, you encourage me to research deeper.
But, as you already mentioned, this kind of backup/restore seems very tricky. I would check other sources and try to find a way to achieve, but i lost my ambition regarding that i have no backup phones. And i don't have time and experience to struggle with such dangerous issues.
I'm still using this Atrix as a main phone. I hope to get a Z5 Compact soon. Maybe i can go on seeking info and tests when this Atrix becomes totally idle afterwards. :laugh:
Thanks for your interest and the informations. :good: