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This is sort of a technical question regarding the architecture of the Android OS and possibly its licensing, etc... For most Windows computers, you can simply download, or buy a copy of Windows directly from Microsoft, install it on any x86 hardware and it will be fully optimized (speed, battery life, etc...). Why can't Google make a build of Android like this so I can simply buy a copy from them and install it on my phone with OEM hardware overtop of their bloated and skinned version of Android? For example, why can I not buy, say a Galaxy SII, and then buy a copy of 'Vanilla Android' from Google and install it legitimately and have it work? I realize that I can flash a copy of CM7 or some other custom ROM from open source developers but I would like to be able to just simply buy a copy of stock android, directly from Google, install it on my device, and have it work, just like with a Windows computer. Is the reason Google does not do this due to licensing issues? Or is there some other reason for this seemingly obvious solution to all the annoying OEM and Carrier bloatware that most Android phones are subject to?
Note: I realize this question has already been asked but I was hoping for a reason for why Google can't (or won't) provide an alternate build of android that works on all devices in addition to the stock builds that come with phones. As well, why do device manufacturers insist on being total d'bags and not just simply release all the drivers for their phones so we can choose the best phone for the reasons you want to (i.e. speed, build quality, price, specs etc...) and not because of the stupid bloatware or lack thereof?!?
Because, stock Android means absolutely NO drivers installed for a specific device so your phone WILL NOT function (No Touchscreen, No signal, etc). Samsung releases their own firmware after compiling their own Baseband, Kernel and ROM. This contains their touchscreen drivers, wireless drivers, etc. When you change the ROM, you essentially void the warranty, so manufacturers do not encourage it, but they do allow you to combine their components together for you to make your own custom ROM (using their baseband, kernel and/or Samsung official rom as their base roms)
They build their own ROMs so that they know what they are managing, and what they need to fix and update. Also there's also a USP for every product released, let's say, Sony Ericsson's UI with Timescape, Samsung's Touch-Wiz UI, Motorola's Blur, etc. If you want a stock phone then I suggest you go for the Galaxy Nexus, or one of those Nexus phones that Google themselves maintain.
If you want a stock copy of Android OS on the Galaxy S II, try CyanogenMod, it is a custom ROM which is very stock and runs on every device, BUT each device, you need to download a DIFFERENT rom, because their different drivers. If you expect Google to release drivers for each phone for their stock OS'es, they will go insane as their are an uncountable amount of Android devices released on a weekly basis
Great answer Nicholas I read this about an hour ago & spent 10 minutes trying to come up with a detailed answer that would make sense to a user of any experience level. Then I gave up
I'm referring to all smartphones not only SGS2 here.
Ad part 1 - It could be difficult. Every device is different and going this way Google would have to prepare/upgrade it's OS for every device on the market. This is hell of a job, so it's up to device manufacturer or community to do this. I think smartphones differ to much (much more than PCs), so it's not possible to create one system for all. Besides, warranty issues - manufacturer of the device could not be responsible for problems caused by someone else's OS (this is understandable). It's also worth to notice that flashing a smartphone is a process completly different than installing OS on PC as PC cannot be bricked in this process. Give users easy way to flash anything on their phones and you have another gate to problems as they will surely flash everything including windows dlls on their phones. You say that on PC any OS can be installed, I say FOR NOW. In a few years You will have a choice - cheaper PC, windows only, OS only from manufacturer or more expensive one and you install anything You want. Why do you think UEFI was created? It will happen unless PC market collapses, because according to some market analytics we are entering post-PC era and mobile devices will became our main devices.
Ad part 2 - It's just business model. Manufacturer/carrier does not sell You the device (that's how they see it), they sell You some bunch of features and have no interest in You adding more of them to Your device. SGS2 is a flagship phone and it's kernel sources are released. It has unlocked bootloader also. You payed accordingly - so you free to do much more things, and use full hardware potential. With lower-end devices - manufacturers prefer that You buy another device instead of upgrading current one. Market insist on lower prices, but with every device unlocked/released drivers etc. prices would be much higher and smartphones much less affordable. Devices like SGS2 are created for very specific users - power users/devs/businessmans/enthusiasts.
I think that You want impossible. IMHO it's almost miracle that Samsung released some smartphones with unlocked bootloader so You can flash everything You want. (btw. it was the reason for me to choose sgs2). And about that "bloatware obsession" - I just don't understand why some people are sooo obsessive. I don't find some app usefull - I don't use it, period. But TBH I must say that Samsung put some serious s**t preinstalled on SGS2. Sometimes it outranks even worst market junk.
Hi!
I have been a heavy user of custom ROMs for more than three years now on all my Android devices. Lately, although I have a phone that not so long ago was still Samsung's flagship (the galaxy S4, I9505), the pictures I get with it really suck. A couple weeks ago, the phone could not detect my SIM card (pure hardware issue), so I re-installed the stock firmware and took it to the repair shop to get the warranty repair. They fixed it and I got my phone back. Just to make sure it was working fine, I decided to use the stock ROM for a while, and oh surprise: the camera takes much better pics in low light conditions or indoor than the same camera with any custom ROM app (usually AOSP-based, AOKP or CM-based). I tried to download the Google camera, and the low light pictures really suck. Then I tried a bunch of camera apps from the Play store, but I invariably got similar results to what I got with my custom ROMs.
That got me thinking. I'm no dev nor programmer, so I won't get technical, but it seems to me that there can be two reasons for the samsung app to work better:
- Either it has access to (proprietary) hardware drivers that other camera apps cannot access, and therefore it can get everything out of the camera hardware
- Or Samsung (which is not known to be great for its software) has developed a great camera software.
I would think it's something along the lines of the first reason. So does that mean I am either stuck with a ROM I cannot stand (Touchwiz is awful, has always been, and may always be) and a decent camera, or a decent ROM but a camera that is kind of useless when I'm indoor?
If so, how are the cameras on other similar phones (I'm thinking Nexus 5, Sony Xperia, etc.), running on custom ROMs compared to the stock camera apps? Is there also a noticeable difference, or is it just with Samsung?
I understood that you cannot run the Samsung camera apk on a custom ROM (even one on a Samsung phone), because the camera relies on some kind of Samsung proprietary framework.
Does this mean I should be looking for a phone that is running not only on open source software, but also open source hardware, does that even exist?
Anyone has noticed something similar? Am I the only one to be bothered by this?
I'll post here a couple pics taken in the same ambient light conditions. One with the Samsung camera (Auto setting), one with Google camera, and one with another camera app from the market (don't remember which one, but I tested about 15 of them and their results were quite similar).
Anyway, even if you don' have a solution to the problem but can point me to information that could help me understand how to choose my next phone, I would really appreciate. Thanks!
Cheers,
Fa
fabecoool said:
Hi!
I have been a heavy user of custom ROMs for more than three years now on all my Android devices. Lately, although I have a phone that not so long ago was still Samsung's flagship (the galaxy S4, I9505), the pictures I get with it really suck. A couple weeks ago, the phone could not detect my SIM card (pure hardware issue), so I re-installed the stock firmware and took it to the repair shop to get the warranty repair. They fixed it and I got my phone back. Just to make sure it was working fine, I decided to use the stock ROM for a while, and oh surprise: the camera takes much better pics in low light conditions or indoor than the same camera with any custom ROM app (usually AOSP-based, AOKP or CM-based). I tried to download the Google camera, and the low light pictures really suck. Then I tried a bunch of camera apps from the Play store, but I invariably got similar results to what I got with my custom ROMs.
That got me thinking. I'm no dev nor programmer, so I won't get technical, but it seems to me that there can be two reasons for the samsung app to work better:
- Either it has access to (proprietary) hardware drivers that other camera apps cannot access, and therefore it can get everything out of the camera hardware
- Or Samsung (which is not known to be great for its software) has developed a great camera software.
I would think it's something along the lines of the first reason. So does that mean I am either stuck with a ROM I cannot stand (Touchwiz is awful, has always been, and may always be) and a decent camera, or a decent ROM but a camera that is kind of useless when I'm indoor?
If so, how are the cameras on other similar phones (I'm thinking Nexus 5, Sony Xperia, etc.), running on custom ROMs compared to the stock camera apps? Is there also a noticeable difference, or is it just with Samsung?
I understood that you cannot run the Samsung camera apk on a custom ROM (even one on a Samsung phone), because the camera relies on some kind of Samsung proprietary framework.
Does this mean I should be looking for a phone that is running not only on open source software, but also open source hardware, does that even exist?
Anyone has noticed something similar? Am I the only one to be bothered by this?
I'll post here a couple pics taken in the same ambient light conditions. One with the Samsung camera (Auto setting), one with Google camera, and one with another camera app from the market (don't remember which one, but I tested about 15 of them and their results were quite similar).
Anyway, even if you don' have a solution to the problem but can point me to information that could help me understand how to choose my next phone, I would really appreciate. Thanks!
Cheers,
Fa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So here come the pics. Of course XDA compresses them, but you'll get the idea.
Fa
That is the example difference between things that are built for the device over using open-source options. Software will always be better from the OEM. You see the same thing with HTC and Sony devices. Take the m7 and m8. They have great cameras as long as you use HTC Sense. Other wise all you get is a basic 4 mpx camera that sucks. If you want one that works the same no matter the rom then get a nexus. This is something OEM are doing to make people want to use their software
Thanks @zelendel,
A Nexus could be an option, but the screen size of the Nexus 5 was already too large for me (and so is my current phone, the Galaxy S4), so there's no way I'm getting a Nexus 6 (plus it's prohibitively expensive, at least here in Europe). When will Google make a Nexus mini or compact? That would rock, especially if they go the Sony way (not compromising too much on hardware features). The only downside of Nexus phone is their lack of MicroSD card slot, but that's off topic.
Anyway, what about the Google Edition phones? As I understand, they have the same hardware as their OEM counterpart (don't they?), but instead of running on proprietary stock ROMs, they ship with a pure Vanilla Android. Does this mean they ship with a camera that sucks, or is there some kind of tweak included to get the most of the camera with those editions, too? If so, would flashing that ROM help (if I can get my hands on it)? Unfortunately it seems the whole Google Edition concept has not gained a lot of traction (maybe because of the unavailability of the handsets in many places, maybe thanks to the OEM who did not play fair game and rather managed to get their crappy proprietary stock versions in the hands of customers), so I'm trying not to get too excited about this either.
I guess I will have to go to my local phone shop, spend time there with different devices and see if some of them have less heavily customized skins than TouchWiz. That means I'll no longer go for a Samsung, which have been my only devices so far. The end of an era...
fabecoool said:
Thanks @zelendel,
A Nexus could be an option, but the screen size of the Nexus 5 was already too large for me (and so is my current phone, the Galaxy S4), so there's no way I'm getting a Nexus 6 (plus it's prohibitively expensive, at least here in Europe). When will Google make a Nexus mini or compact? That would rock, especially if they go the Sony way (not compromising too much on hardware features). The only downside of Nexus phone is their lack of MicroSD card slot, but that's off topic.
Anyway, what about the Google Edition phones? As I understand, they have the same hardware as their OEM counterpart (don't they?), but instead of running on proprietary stock ROMs, they ship with a pure Vanilla Android. Does this mean they ship with a camera that sucks, or is there some kind of tweak included to get the most of the camera with those editions, too? If so, would flashing that ROM help (if I can get my hands on it)? Unfortunately it seems the whole Google Edition concept has not gained a lot of traction (maybe because of the unavailability of the handsets in many places, maybe thanks to the OEM who did not play fair game and rather managed to get their crappy proprietary stock versions in the hands of customers), so I'm trying not to get too excited about this either.
I guess I will have to go to my local phone shop, spend time there with different devices and see if some of them have less heavily customized skins than TouchWiz. That means I'll no longer go for a Samsung, which have been my only devices so far. The end of an era...
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Click to collapse
The GPE device dont come with stock android completely. I have a GPE HTC M7 and the gpe software has some of the closed sourced drivers and such for things like Beats audio and the camera. As I run pure AOSP I wind up with a 4mpx camera that really sucks. While i agree alot of the newer devices have huge screens that make it almost pointless for me. The m7 is not bad at about 5in. But then again it doesnt have an SD card slot but comes with 32gb of storage which I think is plenty for my use. Part of me misses my old samsung devices but I made the mistake once of getting the one with the Samsungs chip and not the snapdragon which killed development.
zelendel said:
The GPE device dont come with stock android completely. I have a GPE HTC M7 and the gpe software has some of the closed sourced drivers and such for things like Beats audio and the camera. As I run pure AOSP I wind up with a 4mpx camera that really sucks. While i agree alot of the newer devices have huge screens that make it almost pointless for me. The m7 is not bad at about 5in. But then again it doesnt have an SD card slot but comes with 32gb of storage which I think is plenty for my use. Part of me misses my old samsung devices but I made the mistake once of getting the one with the Samsungs chip and not the snapdragon which killed development.
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Click to collapse
Alright! Well, if I could find the GPE edition for my phone (I9505), then I would get all the camera features and none of the TouchWiz crap, which would already be quite an improvement over what I have now (complete TW stock). I guess another possibility would be to flash a stock based ROM that is rooted and from which I could remove all the bloatware...
OK, the hunt is on for a new ROM!
Cheers!
Fa
fabecoool said:
Alright! Well, if I could find the GPE edition for my phone (I9505), then I would get all the camera features and none of the TouchWiz crap, which would already be quite an improvement over what I have now (complete TW stock). I guess another possibility would be to flash a stock based ROM that is rooted and from which I could remove all the bloatware...
OK, the hunt is on for a new ROM!
Cheers!
Fa
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Click to collapse
If you want all the features of the camera then yes I would run a stock de bloated rom. I used to run Samsung devices and you can remove most things which will give you the camera app which has all the best features.
The Z4 Tablet is possibly my dream tablet, it has a great screen, microSD slot, good battery life and it seems dev-friendly.
I've got no Sony experience and I see surprisingly little custom ROM development. How 'dev-friendly' is this tablet? Does Sony provide source codes, drivers? Are they easy in unlocking bootloaders and flashing stuff like radios? Does it seem likely custom post-Marshmallow ROMs will be cooked in 1,5-2 years from now on?
do some research!
e.g. here "Anybody work on root?" much off topic posts unfortunately
there are two section with the title "Development" here ...
look at the phones: Z3+ and Z5 (nearly the same sources)
and all you need with almost useful documentation in SONY's Developer world:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/
DHGE said:
e.g. here "Anybody work on root?" much off topic posts unfortunately
there are two section with the title "Development" here ...
look at the phones: Z3+ and Z5 (nearly the same sources)
and all you need with almost useful documentation in SONY's Developer world:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I admit my question was a bit lazy, but it'd be pretty easy for people like you with lots of experience/knowledge on this Sony platform to give me a general idea.
I ordered a Z4T, but while reading this subforom while waiting for the shipment, things start to itch me a bit.
I'll anwer my own questions the way I see it now: Sony is pretty developer-friendly by providing source code and build instructions, but it's pretty buggy and there are very few developers doing stuff for the Z4T. I guess it's because of the bad availability of the device and the relatively small user base. The people @ FXP build ROMs, but I haven't heard much about how useful these builds are. If anything, I heard people downgrading from the 5.1.1 build. Rooting is only possible by unlocking the bootloader and flashing @AndroPlus' custom kernel. His current TWRP build has a bug that makes it impossible to restore a device backup.
Sony provides the option for unlocking the bootloader, but you'll completely lose your warranty. Furthermore, the TA partition will be irreverably changed and you'll lose functionality.
Marhsmallow has been announced, so there's that.
SONY's devices are good compromise for me
@jelbo
Good summary!
My opinion:
The SONY devices are good hardware. I like them because they are water resistant since I lost a phone after cycling in heavy rain.
I have a Tablet xperia Z with CyanogenMod on it. Android 5.1
The start with that 3rd party ROM was slow and it was quite buggy. Also battery life was worse than with stock ROM.
I have a SAMSUNG Galxy S5 phone. They have Knox-protection on their devices. Quite evil compared to SONY. Because it was released with Kitkat I could root it via exploit and keep Knox untriggered. I could get CyanogenMod, even Marshmallow Alphas for the phone. But the drivers are not that good and the battery life with stock is very good (up to four days for me).
So I will keep that phone on stock and I used Titanium Backup to get rid of SAMSUNG's bloatware.
SAMSUNG do not provide documentation and many of their SOCs are proprietary - no chance to do any development for these devices.
Long post short: SONY is very open and relatively easy to hack on their devices.
Better (now) in price and features than the Nexus devices IMO. I would never buy a device without any chance to do development on it.
I think the bug in TWRP will get fixed soon (has bitten me once).
Thanks for your kind reply
DHGE said:
@jelbo
Good summary!
My opinion:
The SONY devices are good hardware. I like them because they are water resistant since I lost a phone after cycling in heavy rain.
I have a Tablet xperia Z with CyanogenMod on it. Android 5.1
The start with that 3rd party ROM was slow and it was quite buggy. Also battery life was worse than with stock ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds familiar. In my experience with the last few phones I've had, AOSP-based ROMs were always a tad slower and less battery-friendly than stock or stock based ROMs. For example, the stock 'Google Play Edition' ROMs ran like a dream on my HTC One m7, but others were always less smooth / battery friendly.
So, for the Z4T I'm not partularly worried about the lack of 3rd party ROMs. I'll be fine with stock rooted. But for the longer term, because of the unpopularity, I think it's unlikely to see much going on in a year from now on and that kind of makes me doubt my purchase.
I have a SAMSUNG Galxy S5 phone. They have Knox-protection on their devices. Quite evil compared to SONY.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but not more evil than Sony I think. Samsung's bootloader unlock 'trips' Knox and it'll disable features like secure storage and services that depend on it. It's also irreversible. It's an awful lot like Sony's irreversible TA partition 'tripping'.
Because it was released with Kitkat I could root it via exploit and keep Knox untriggered. I could get CyanogenMod, even Marshmallow Alphas for the phone. But the drivers are not that good and the battery life with stock is very good (up to four days for me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could root my Galaxy S6 using an exploit, without tripping Knox. I'm running 5.1.1 with an engineering bootloader, while still having my Knox untriggered. It's a luxury I'm not gonna have on the Z4T, unless an exploit will be found.
SAMSUNG do not provide documentation and many of their SOCs are proprietary - no chance to do any development for these devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's one of the reasons I want to avoid a Samsung as my new tablet. Exynos is a black box, so custom, stock-based ROMs will be the best you can get. BUT, I'm doubting now. Custom, stock-based ROMs are fine with me - as you mention, battery life is great. And on top of that, Samsung is so popular that lots of development is being done. I think chances are bigger to see the Marshmallow successor being ported for older Samsung devices than we'll see on this Sony Z4 Tablet in the future. But that's an assumption, I don't have Sony experience, but I see things re pretty dead here, even though the device was released quite a long time ago.
Long post short: SONY is very open and relatively easy to hack on their devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really seeing that yet, but again, I've only looked at the Z4T now.
Better (now) in price and features than the Nexus devices IMO. I would never buy a device without any chance to do development on it.
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Click to collapse
The microSD is an essential part for me. If the Pixel C would have had a microSD-slot I'd have chosen that. Development and future updates are a huge selling point for Nexus devices.
I think the bug in TWRP will get fixed soon (has bitten me once).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's hope so.
Hopefully the Z4T will get some more love soon, as I have just sent my Pixel C back and taken a punt at a open box Amazon warehouse deal last night with 40% off the LTE
I love my Z3CT, Z3C and Ultra, which have had great support from the devs, so am expecting the Z4 to be the best hardware of the lot, but would also love a root method while keeping the bootloader locked for now.
Heres to hoping perhaps MM will lead to some kernel exploits.
scoobydu said:
[...] as I have just sent my Pixel C back [...]
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Click to collapse
What made you return your Pixel C?
I love my Z3CT, Z3C and Ultra, which have had great support from the devs [...]
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Did it take a while to get to that point? Do you think the Z4T will have the same support?
jelbo said:
What made you return your Pixel C?
Did it take a while to get to that point? Do you think the Z4T will have the same support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get me started on the Pixel C from Google UK pricing error on day 1 and their refusal for a week to refund or swapout 32g for 64g devices, due to their error; then I had a hardware fault with the screen not responding after 24hrs of use. I found their support just awful More issues were being reported in the xda forum and I decided I wasn't going to spend £550 to beta test for google. Nice solid device but heavier that the Z4 and sliding the keybard across the keyboard to remove it, just made me nervous of scratching something everytime I did it.
To be honest the Z4 forums are very quiet, but so were the pixel c's; as a few people were commenting.
I had to root my Z3 Tab by loading the Z3 phone firmware and rooting that, as that had a kernel vunerability and the kernel on the Z3 tab didn't.
Once the Z3 phone firmware was loaded and rooted, I could backup my TA partition and reload the Z3 tab firmware, rooted.
Its generally the phones that get root and the tabs have to utilise what they can, unless of course a dev has the tab.
The tab forums got much busier once the device had a less risky root method.
Sad to see that Nut hasn't got a recovery done, but I am assuming that due to root only being available by unlocking and losing TA, so limited testers, but haven't had time to read the history yet.
I have to say though that the Z4 is fantastic in comparison to the Pixel C and I am very glad I have reverted to the device that I know especially at £360 for the LTE version + keyboard on Amazon open box. First time using and the device is pristine. To be fair the Z4 is many iterations of getting it right and the Pixel is googles first try. Once its at Pixel C v4 it will probably be very good!
Heres to hoping MM is officially released soon, so the chances of rooting may get better.
from Nut
This is the reason why I didn't release XZDR for the Z3+/Z4/TabZ4 yet, too much difference with the Shinano and older device trees.
Edit:
That should be solved with 2.9 though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems the 64 bits is a material change, so things need to progress in 2.9 from my early readings.
scoobydu said:
Dont get me started on the Pixel C from Google UK pricing error on day 1 and their refusal for a week to refund or swapout 32g for 64g devices, due to their error; then I had a hardware fault with the screen not responding after 24hrs of use. I found their support just awful More issues were being reported in the xda forum and I decided I wasn't going to spend £550 to beta test for google. Nice solid device but heavier that the Z4 and sliding the keybard across the keyboard to remove it, just made me nervous of scratching something everytime I did it.
To be honest the Z4 forums are very quiet, but so were the pixel c's; as a few people were commenting.
I had to root my Z3 Tab by loading the Z3 phone firmware and rooting that, as that had a kernel vunerability and the kernel on the Z3 tab didn't.
Once the Z3 phone firmware was loaded and rooted, I could backup my TA partition and reload the Z3 tab firmware, rooted.
Its generally the phones that get root and the tabs have to utilise what they can, unless of course a dev has the tab.
The tab forums got much busier once the device had a less risky root method.
Sad to see that Nut hasn't got a recovery done, but I am assuming that due to root only being available by unlocking and losing TA, so limited testers, but haven't had time to read the history yet.
I have to say though that the Z4 is fantastic in comparison to the Pixel C and I am very glad I have reverted to the device that I know especially at £360 for the LTE version + keyboard on Amazon open box. First time using and the device is pristine. To be fair the Z4 is many iterations of getting it right and the Pixel is googles first try. Once its at Pixel C v4 it will probably be very good!
Heres to hoping MM is officially released soon, so the chances of rooting may get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply, good info. I'm glad to hear some reassuring comments on the Z4T. Looks like you had a great deal as well. In the Netherlands they're hard to get. I payed €635 for the WiFi model... I'm still doubting a little bit to go for a discounted Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 for €380 though. I read it'll even get Marshmallow in April. Price difference is pretty big and there's lots of stuff for it already.
I'll have a look in some Xperia phone subforums on XDA.
jelbo said:
Thanks for your reply, good info. I'm glad to hear some reassuring comments on the Z4T. Looks like you had a great deal as well. In the Netherlands they're hard to get. I payed €635 for the WiFi model... I'm still doubting a little bit to go for a discounted Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 for €380 though. I read it'll even get Marshmallow in April. Price difference is pretty big and there's lots of stuff for it already.
I'll have a look in some Xperia phone subforums on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there are no deals on the Z4 Tab in the UK and all the new prices are the same retail price.
Thats why I decided to take a chance on the Amazon one, as I could return it if it was damaged or anything; and normal 12 months warranty with Amazon.
For me I haven't had a Samsung since my Tab 7.7 and wouldn't personally have another, but each to their own. The devs were always complaining at Samsung not releasing all the source code to their SoC's, wheereas Sony seemed to be more dev friendly.
The Z3 Tab is fantastic if you didn't mind the 8inch, but I am hoping once the Z3+ root is forthcoming and general 64bit root/recovery is done, then we will have some progress; he says, not being able to help the devs on whats seems a lot of work.
jelbo said:
I've got no Sony experience and I see surprisingly little custom ROM development. How 'dev-friendly' is this tablet? Does Sony provide source codes, drivers? Are they easy in unlocking bootloaders and flashing stuff like radios? Does it seem likely custom post-Marshmallow ROMs will be cooked in 1,5-2 years from now on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame that such a good device is so low supported by free developers even though it seems it's more open by the Sony in comparison with Samsung.
I noticed that some people think in the thread that not so much users have this device. I have an old phone so called HTC desire HD which was released in the faraway 2010, it is excellent supported as it even has the contemporary android 6.0. I don't believe that there are more HTC decide HD users rather than xperia tablet z4 users. Moreover, I see as my comrade-users of our device crying ? everyday on a Russian 4pda.ru site, that we wait but there's no a good root method, there is no a good description or a video showing us how does the only custom ROM work. What works and what is broken. And just not seeing good news over the course of several months. Of course, I am very disappointed in dramatic fashion, but I hope The change will come.
Thank you for attention!)
cut the drama
- you should not compare a phone to a tablet (numberwise)
- look into the fora for phones Z3+/Z4 and Z5
they have nearly identical SoCs, differences a sometimes build options
- there is a HUGE xperia cross devices forum here with tons of additional info
- the Z4 Tablet became available in June 2015
- the first sources from SONY showed up in .... June 2015
- I rooted the device in July - having done no Android programming or rooting before
- I ordered the device after researching (see below) and before there was root available because my findings showed that there would be sources and documentation from SONY so that if all else fails I would get later a custom rom or could even roll my own
- a video for "seeing" developing/hacking? Dream on...
- there is lots of documentation (even video) available, maybe no video on how to do a web search or an xda search
- searching (and reading and trying things out) worked for me - coming from SAMSUNG phones with no prior development experience on Android ... TRY IT
DHGE said:
- you should not compare a phone to a tablet (numberwise)
- look into the fora for phones Z3+/Z4 and Z5
they have nearly identical SoCs, differences a sometimes build options
- there is a HUGE xperia cross devices forum here with tons of additional info
- the Z4 Tablet became available in June 2015
- the first sources from SONY showed up in .... June 2015
- I rooted the device in July - having done no Android programming or rooting before
- I ordered the device after researching (see below) and before there was root available because my findings showed that there would be sources and documentation from SONY so that if all else fails I would get later a custom rom or could even roll my own
- a video for "seeing" developing/hacking? Dream on...
- there is lots of documentation (even video) available, maybe no video on how to do a web search or an xda search
- searching (and reading and trying things out) worked for me - coming from SAMSUNG phones with no prior development experience on Android ... TRY IT
Click to expand...
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Good summary.
Small point, but the rooting element is by unlocking the bootloader, which not all will want to do. It is though an option that exists and we are thankful for those that have done so in order to progress the dev support.
Hi guys, I'm a jailbroken iPhone 6S+ user. I'm currently a slave to Apple's ecosystem (iPad, Apple TV, Watch but not a Mac) I apologize for the wall of text below, but I know you guys are always glad to give a helping hand.
I've been using iOS since the iPod Touch 2G, taking a break for a couple months only in the Galaxy S3 days, which was my first and only android experience. Many iOS users are in the same boat as me.
Android was a whole different thing back then. Nowadays, when I see the curved, bright and saturated screen of an S7 and how well it pairs with the material design, I feel like I'd love to give that a spin. My problem is that I've been fed constant complaints on behalf of android users, using different handsets and at different times. Here are my main concerns:
I've always heard that, after a "honeymoon" period, almost without fail, all android handsets start to experience stuttering, freezing, rebooting, framerate drops, etc. (maybe one of those at a time, sometimes all of those are common occurrences) does this happen? This is the most important one for me, because if there's something that none of my iPhones ever suffered from, was reduced performance.
Software glitches which are mostly hardware-specific. I've visited the 6P subreddit, only to find a plethora of people complaining about the camera app freezing or crashing, some focus issue I believe as well, or maybe just reduced performance in other parts of the OS (which is the purest form of android). I've also heard that Samsung's bloatware, although only a fraction of what it was back on the S3 days, still causes the phone to feel sluggish at times. Haven't heard about Huawei or HTC bloatware, but I have watched reviews which mentioned some lag here and there.
Software updates. The whole ordeal of having to choose a phone thinking about whether it will get updates in the future or not is pretty sad. I know that Nexus phones are guaranteed to get updates for two years I believe, but as I stated before, visiting the 6P subreddit, I've seen people complain about Google updating the OS but leaving bugs unresolved for several iterations of it. How do you handle this when choosing a phone?
Customization. If there's one area that I've been always convinced Android was leaps and bounds ahead of iOS was this. However, as a jailbroken iOS user, I find that I get most of what you guys can get out the box, but in a prettier package. As in, jb tweaks are very tightly integrated and always match the OS look and feel. In Android, you work with apps or, after rooting, with "modules" I think they're called. How do these differ from JB tweaks (stability-wise as well)? How different is the process of waiting for root vs waiting for a JB? Is rooting as necessary as jailbreaking?
Lastly:
Apps. I am aware of the differences in general app quality when comparing the App Store and the Play Store. Big names such as FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc are mostly the same. But when you start digging a little bit deeper, you find that there's a big difference in not only availability, but also variety and polish. At least, that's how my experience was and what I tend to hear from Android users. How's the Play Store these days? Has this changed a bit?
I apologize once again for the wall of text. If you could answer each point with one or two lines I'd be immensely grateful. Honestly, since these points are big question marks in my head right now, I wouldn't even know what handset to look into, because I don't want to be unpleasantly surprised later on. Android screens though... Damn. Most of them are sexy.
Anyway, thank you very much for your time. Any help is deeply appreciated.
Stuttering/Freezing. You might find this on some low-end devices but the "flagship" devices that I've used haven't suffered from this. This would generally be caused by lower end hardware (lower clocked CPU and lower RAM).
Software glitches. I own the 6P and have never had the camera crash or freeze, never had any software issues with this phone actually. Samsung phones are pretty well known to suffer from being sluggy, this is due to their Touchwiz UI which hogs quite a bit of RAM. The HTC devices I've owned haven't had this issue. Can't speak for Huawei's own UI. The Huawei 6P uses pure Android, I don't notice any real lag issues on this phone.
Updates. If you want guaranteed software updates your best bet is a Nexus. I've noticed no major bugs on the 6P apart from a 4G bug that was specific to an Australian carrier but that was patched pretty quickly. There have been things in Android that people label as bugs that haven't been patched immediately though. Even if you choose a device that may not be updated officially you will very often be able to update via a custom ROM, custom ROMs are often developed for devices long after official support has stopped.
Customization. Android is definitely far ahead in terms of customisation. Most people find customisation via a custom ROM (a customised version of the OS, sometimes based on the stock OS, sometimes based on AOSP (Android Open Source Project or "pure Android"), sometimes based on something like CyanogenMod). A ROM will almost always have extra features and tweaks, these features are usually very well implemented and tie in very nicely with the OS. When speaking about modules you'd be referring to Xposed Modules which are used with the Xposed Framework. Xposed basically opens up a lot of customisation ability, it requires root, it can be used on a stock ROM with root or with a custom ROM. There are a plethora of modules available, too many to even begin to list, the best way to see what they can achieve is to look in our Xposed Modules section. As for root in general, you don't generally need to wait for root like you would with jailbreaking. Having root access is also far more flexible than jailbreaking, you can pretty much do anything with your phone, you have full access to the otherwise blocked system partition. Root methods will vary from device to device but you'll usually need an unlocked bootloader. The easiest devices to root and modify are the Nexus devices, they're designed to be tinkered with, development phones first and foremost.
Apps. In the early days of Android, and even up until a few years ago, the Play Store really lacked in terms of availability and quality. The last few years have seen a dramatic increase in both areas though, there's a wide variety available and the quality has become top notch.
In summing up, it looks like the worries you have are misconceptions commonly held by Apple users.
As a former board level apple technician who used the first ever apple products in kindergarten nearly 30 years ago, I must say I can't even use an iPhone. With all respect, most of your thoughts are not accurate.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA-Developers mobile app
Hi all
I used AOKP on Samsung and LG some years ago, and it was incredible. I've tried many other ROMs (like 2 a month for a year), it was not the same. crDroid came close, but is still lacking. I want to buy a new phone that is known to have very stable AOKP support. I'm talking about someone who's used the device for 6-12 months at least with no known issues (or minor issues that legit don't bother them), and uses almost every aspect of the ROM's features (I've seen phones that don't support the ribbon, for example, which is a deal breaker).
My budget is anywhere from $300-$1000, I don't really care, so long as the device has at least 2GB RAM and an OK processor.
I don't care too much about the GPU because modern games block rooted devices anyway.
Phone size etc doesn't matter, though I'd prefer bigger rather than smaller.
At least 1920x1080 res, but larger is fine.
I'd prefer very good battery life. I don't want a second hand phone as people tend to ruin batteries, and replacements tend to have terrible shelf lives.
Getdroidtips dot com has some phones listed (I can't post the exact link to the list because too low rep ). The Google Pixel XL looks like a very good choice, but it seems you can't buy them new anymore.
Any suggestions from existing AOKP users? All advice will be much appreciated.
@aggregate1166877
I'm not an AOKP user.
The latest AOKP Custom ROM is based on Android 8.1. A Custom ROM such as TWRP is required to flash it, what presupposes that device's bootloader can get unlocked.
So your options are restricted to Android devices a TWRP exists for and its bootloader can get unlocked.