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I initially picked up the EVO June 4th and had it and loved it for a month. Then Magenta announced they were getting the Galaxy as the Vibrant so I returned the EVO to see if the Vibrant was all I hoped it would be.
I love them both and my two week window for the Vibrant is almost up so I wanted to get some opinions on the development potential for the Vibrant vs the EVO.
I know its early and the source code just got released this week, but it seems like development for the EVO moved at a much quicker pace. I wanted some people to chime in about what they think, especially if you've had and used both phones.
Many devs are familiar with the HTC way of doing things, and samsung is different so there is a learning curve that had to be tackled first. I think the development of the SGS is pretty good and will continue to grow..
Sent from my SGS Vibrant
Yeah its only a master matter of time. Why would people not want to mess with the best hardware? Especially the developers.
SAMSUNG BEAST VIBRANT XDA APP
I've had the evo too, keep the vibrant. Way better screen, faster CPU, lighter and thinner! Development will come, I know what you mean about the evo dev being fast, but its just because developers were used to HTC ways. Samsung is different, we are finally seeing update.zip packages, I think everything will pick up shortly.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
boodies said:
Yeah its only a master matter of time. Why would people not want to mess with the best hardware? Especially the developers.
SAMSUNG BEAST VIBRANT XDA APP
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yea most of the developers are just now buying Vibrant's, as more people use them, the more it will be mod'd and developed
not to mention that 2 more galaxy s phones have yet to be released (Sprint and VZW). There will be a LOT of GalaxyS support in the dev community since just about everyone will be able to get one.
In my opinion this was a really good question. I too came from the EVO and Sprint, my wife and I got tired of the horrible customer service that Sprint was giving us so we packed up shop and moved to T-Mo hearing nothing but great things about their customer service. So far I love the hardware of the Vibrant and I too was a bit worried that the development didn't happen as fast as the EVO, so great question and here's to hoping we get strong development on this great platform.
ju5tiiv said:
In my opinion this was a really good question. I too came from the EVO and Sprint, my wife and I got tired of the horrible customer service that Sprint was giving us so we packed up shop and moved to T-Mo hearing nothing but great things about their customer service. So far I love the hardware of the Vibrant and I too was a bit worried that the development didn't happen as fast as the EVO, so great question and here's to hoping we get strong development on this great platform.
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You have to change that avatar! just kidding.
My vote is for the vibrant as well!
I too had the evo. The dev for it was awesome but didn't it seem that at least half of it was correct it's shortcomings? Fps fix, camera tweaks, different radios and kernels. The processor is sub par a well as the gpu. The phone out of the box needed to be modded. The vibrant is good out if the box. Root it and you're good. That's how I feel about it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
The EVO WILL NOT be as strong as the SGS line.
A lot of the hardware between all the phones is very very similar and allows different communities to share their findings. We are not limited to a carrier, therefore this is one of the first times
Verizon
T-Mobile
ATT
Sprint
US Cellular
and more...
Can all work together to find stuff.
Example, the European version of the Galaxy has a speed fix that doubles their quadrant scores. This method is already porting over to the captivate and vibrant and is about %75 done!
Lastly, I'm from the Captivate forums and this shows you how much we can all work together!
SlimJ87D said:
Lastly, I'm from the Captivate forums and this shows you how much we can all work together!
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TRAITOR! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
Plus Qualcomms cpu's are crap compared to Samsung. I remember my HTC 8525 (hermes) from back in the day had a better cpu than did my HTC Kaiser which had a Qualcomm processor that was seriously weak in comparison. Ask any developer they will tell you.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
That and most of the "dev" support is seriously lacking, it's either good (probably something that optimizes a stock ROM), good but still needs more time, not all there (like the FPS fix), or is completely garbage.
With the myTouch 3G/G1, I tried to find something that was fast and worked good, never found that combo unfortunately. I don't see the need for that with the Vibrant. I think we would be best off waiting for Samsung to respond to GPS concerns & problems. Maybe we'll get an update this month that will speed us up like some of the later beta leaks along with an update to GPS functionality to tide us over until FroYo.
ju5tiiv said:
In my opinion this was a really good question. I too came from the EVO and Sprint, my wife and I got tired of the horrible customer service that Sprint was giving us so we packed up shop and moved to T-Mo hearing nothing but great things about their customer service. So far I love the hardware of the Vibrant and I too was a bit worried that the development didn't happen as fast as the EVO, so great question and here's to hoping we get strong development on this great platform.
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Been with Tmobile for 7 years, decided to check the evo out when it came out, since sprint offered 100% money back guarantee within 30 days, never again... for one, service in my area for sprint ended up sucking, specially for 3g. My evo was neat though, it was exactly what I wanted Hd2 to be, so I was happy. Only complaint was no amoled screen on it.
Anyways, I kept it for 20 days and decided to return it as I wasn't gonna pay $10 extra a month for data when I barely got 300kbps upload at my house and couldn't even stream Pandora at the gym due to 100kbps download speed there... went to local sprint store where I bought my evo. They told me to drive 30 miles to a service center because they required all of the new evo phones to be checked out by a tech first... drove there, hit rush hour, they tell me that I didn't have to drive there afterall and that the Rep who told me to didn't know what She was talking about. Returned my phone, got my money back, Guy said That hed call sprint and cancel my service, that I was good to go...awesome, not so much...
Get a bill in the mail a month later for first month of service, then one for second. Called financial department, stayed on the phone for an hour, spoke to 3 people. They are telling me that my cancellation didn't happen until July 7th and that I owe them $200! I had a reciept in front of me stating tat my phone was returned June 28th. I kept on telling them that why in the world would I go through all the hustle to return my device, not have any usage on my account since 28th and not cancel the service, knowing that I only had 30 days to do so... they ended up telling me to go back to sprint store and talk to the same rep who cancelled my service and to have him call sprint. Fat chance I was driving there again. Went to my local sprint store, spoke to this nice dude who looked at my reciept and called sprint to fix the issue. Said that he saw the name of that Rep 3 times prior, that he screwed up before.
All is good now, but after all these issues I'm sticking to Tmobile, way better customer service and coverage in my area. I had an issue with my first vibrant. Went back to the store, got a swap in minutes. People there were courteous, And super helpful. Not so much with sprint...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Ya t-mobile is the best! There no contract plans are a steal. The service is second only to verizon. They have the fastest internet. Internet isn't 30 bucks extra like BS verizon.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm from the international forum (although I don't quite have my Galaxy S yet, will this coming week!) but have to check over here and at the Captivate forum since we're rather fragmented forum-wise, but I'm sure that it'll be easy to port things between the phones.
I'm hoping the Galaxy S series sees developer attention as well - it has a disadvantage not being from HTC stock, but with such wide availability and being such a high-end device I'm hoping we'll see plenty. Work on CyanogenMod is very encouraging and suggests it's being taken seriously.
I don't know if we can count on Samsung releasing Gingerbread firmware; it could really go either way (the Galaxy S series will probably still be their flagship when it comes out, but UI changes may be a disincentive). But with developers interested in the platform we'll hopefully not need Samsung's help to keep the phone up to date in the future.
Going to +1 everything everyone else said and I also had evo, nexus one and all the rest, I like the samsung best and hope they learned from the behold mistake. But in my are t mobile sucks and sprint data was alot faster. But gsm and no contracts beat that.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung Support
And plus there's absolutely no way that the Behold II incident could even compare because the Galaxies have been released in Korea, Europe, and all major carriers in the US so Samsung will definitely have plenty of support as well as everyone on the Galaxies can pitch in to dev this phone.
They plan to release the Galaxy S in over 110 countries and 125 carriers world wide...In South Korea alone they sold 500,000 phones in 30 days...so DEV support is gonna happen no matter how you look at it...
I'm personally sticking with sprint but going for the Epic 4G....really need the keyboard and the specs beat EVO 2x in most specs....
The EVO was impressive 2 years ago when we learned it was the Super Sonic...nowadays its pretty much just another phone....I mean it even uses a 4 year old processor....
The Galaxy S or Vibrant or whichever name you prefer to call it is more on par with the standards of 2010...
I don't know how many of you have been in the same boat (or care, really) but I am just so torn as to what to do!! I have been with t-mobile for the last 10 years and haven't had too many problems other than small hiccups from time to time. And I got onto their no roaming charges plan fairly early on after i signed up. I don't travel very often, but it was nice to not worry about roaming charges. I would always look at verizon and see that they charged roaming fees and were generally more expensive than what I had. Then I got my first smart phone in 2006 and was hooked! However, t-mobile was pretty late in the game as far as 3G speeds were concerned, especially in my area. And sometimes, the "3G" speeds really suck!! Tho I have compared against people with AT&T and verizon, and when I have 3G speeds on my phone, they tend to be faster. Hell, I can even stream netflix movies through my phone! But now with the onset of 4G, verizon seems to be in a good position. Tho I just read that Salt Lake wasn't going to get complete LTE coverage until the end of the year. Which kind of bites. Anyway I am kind of wanting to jump ships now, however I would have to cut my allowed minutes in half (to 450), and service would STILL cost like 10-15 dollars more per month than what I already pay. But I really do have my eye on the thunderbolt. I have gone in like 3 times to the verizon store to play with it. I am a little bit concerned with battery life, and I don't want to pay extra for 2 GB worth for tethering. Yes, I understand you can root and put new ROMs on the device, but that process still confuses the crap out of me since I have never done it before. The other thing that i get stuck on is that I am a terrible decision maker, so I am kind of scared of making a bad move and regretting it (like buying an HD2.) So I guess that my question is (especially for you former t-mobile customers) is why do you like verizon? I'm not asking you to convince me to switch, I just want to know why you like verizon. Is there a reason you don't like verizon? I don't think I need to ask why you like or dislike the thunderbolt, since I have found plenty of posts for that. But hopefully a few of you will give your two cents
Well, from what I can say, I'd honestly say that if you main concern is speed, verizon is the way to go, if you lookin for a balance, maybe look into sprint. They have 4g phones (the evo, and the evo shift) being almost the same as the inc I just owned (I ran an evo rom, radios, and battery), as they have decent prices and coverage and 4g. T mobile I have never used or been a fan of, but if they work, why change? They will catch up in a bit I'm sure. I've always been with Verizon as I'm on someones plan, and could never afford the insane rates myself. really though I'l check to see what you need, what you want, and what you can afford. Assuming sprint is good in your area, I'd highly suggest an eve/evo shift as a balance, but I can't really give you a definite answer. I have a thunderbolt as of he last few days and like it. I can't say I love it even with the 4G speeds being impressive at the moment. Just waiting for some more hackers and HTC to give us the code we need then I may love it.
Hope that helps a bit and I didn't bore you.
I moved over from AT&T this past summer because well I really don't like AT&T and even as a priority customer on an iPhone I had terrible coverage/service. I made the move to Verizon initially for the superior network/service. I am paying significantly more as I'm no longer on a family plan w/ my brother who didn't want to leave his iPhone...
And if you do come to Verizon by the time the free mobile hotspot promo ends I'm quite sure the hacker/developer community will have greatly simplified the rooting process and there will be custom roms/kernels to optimize power. If not the extended battery add on doesn't cost too much and doesn't add to much to the overall size, I grabbed it for those days I'm traveling. And there are tethering options that don't require monthly payments/limits that don't require root.
I'm loving my thunderbolt, though I agree w/ kdb424 I'm looking forward to some further development on the custom roms/kernels front. I only have rooted currently to get rid of the bloatware & access to the root apps, but can't wait to have some more custom roms to play with. But well currently seemingly the community is waiting for HTC to release the kernel source.
But again I love Verizon for the service/quality of network/helpful employees & I am definitely liking the thunderbolt even though it is a significant change in size from my Droid Incredible.
Holy massive block of text!
I would recommend checking out which carrier best serves your personal needs. Verizon is a little pricey if you cannot get any sort of discount (through work, family, etc.)... but they also have amazing coverage and an impressive start on their 4G LTE network.
I understand why you may not want Verizon though. Sprint is a tad more affordable and can offer great devices and service depending on your area.
I was with TMobile for about 8 years before switching to Verizon a week ago (relocated for work and had no data coverage with TMobile at my new location).
Well I have looked at the options. I might get a new job in Elko, Nevada in which case only Verizon and AT&T have any decent coverage. This is also another reason why i ask. And I doubt Elko would be getting 4G any time soon.
Oh, decisions decisions!!
HTC has confirmed updates to jellybean for HTC phones... on Rodgers, T-Mobile, and AT&T.
This can be taken two ways:
1) No vzw phones are receive it, meaning that the Incredible 4G LTE won't be receiving it too, or
2) They have yet to say about Verizon phones updates.
This is should not be taken as final word since, well, the have actually said. Also, this isn't a very different upgrade, meaning it is similar to Ics and is not as big of an update as gb->ics. Also, this is only our first major update, when phones like the Incredible 2 is receiving ics.
Sources: http://www.discussmarket.com/htc-and-samsung-confirm-jelly-bean-4-1-upgrade
If this becomes a flame war or an off topic thread, I will shut it down.
Probably that's just the first wave because no way in hell will they not update that Dinc 4G... .anyway the Rezound has yet to get ICS so I doubt we will see any JB anytime before a year from now
Aaaaannd first!
AshtonTS said:
Probably that's just the first wave because no way in hell will they not update that Dinc 4G... .anyway the Rezound has yet to get ICS so I doubt we will see any JB anytime before a year from now
Aaaaannd first!
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That's what I thinking but idk if the rezound would get the update this decade, as shown by ics...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
I would base the assumption on the T-Bolt getting ICS. It's supposed to, so I would think if it does, we'd get JB sometime next year (3rd or 4th quaryer if at all).
Unless they boycott VZW...which would be kind of funny.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
It is pretty incredible that 4.1 is out, and the Rezound is still officially on 2.3. I would assume, however, that the Rezound will get JB. It's too new not to. This is where HTC is falling apart though--too many models, too many software updates.
tekhna said:
It is pretty incredible that 4.1 is out, and the Rezound is still officially on 2.3. I would assume, however, that the Rezound will get JB. It's too new not to. This is where HTC is falling apart though--too many models, too many software updates.
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problems are more with verizon. HTC has had ICS for the rezound available for awhile now. It seems that verizon is holding it back considering other phones released around that time on other carriers have gotten it.
Once my contract with verizon is done, I'm switching to AT&T
I think we will get it, but what do I know. By the time we do, most of us will probably be fed up and move on. If our devs can get the AOSP stuff fixed up, who cares what HTC/Verizon does at that point though. It's weird how HTC has seemingly fallen. I looked at them as the standard back in my Eris and Inc days. Now I would probably pick most any other manufacturer over them after this phone and the Thunderbolt.
AshtonTS said:
Once my contract with verizon is done, I'm switching to AT&T
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I didn't think you were old enough to have that choice...
I'm not sure what I will do. Still under contract until next summer and by then, there will be more changes. A lot of family is on verizon and I have 4 lines with unlimited data. I will probably stay put until that ends. AT&T would probably be my first choice with sprint being second. Sprint already has lte live most places I go (San Antonio, Dallas). T-mobile sucks inside buildings and I'm guessing sprint lte being on a higher frequency will as well.
nrfitchett4 said:
I didn't think you were old enough to have that choice...
I'm not sure what I will do. Still under contract until next summer and by then, there will be more changes. A lot of family is on verizon and I have 4 lines with unlimited data. I will probably stay put until that ends.
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I CHOSE verizon for this 2 year contract. I wanted tmobile, so we got a sensation but tmobile has ****ty service where I live. So I ended up getting Rezound for free. I could have gotten AT&T because I could have gotten any phone on sprint verizon or AT&T free but I chose verizon. Next time, I am going to chose AT&T. Just cuz I'm a kid doesn't mean I have no say
AT&T isn't going to be any kind of magic fix. Their policies are pretty reliably in step with Verizon. You'll see similar changes on AT&T within a year. The problem with HTC updating is everything to do with Verizon being assholes about their bloatware being on the phone. Every button that can be, has to have $ for Verizon attached to it. Hence the big delay with the Nexus and the removal of Google Wallet NFC stuff.
As soon as I'm able, I'm going to be looking at some of the prepaid plans. I should be able to cut my monthly by 20-25% over my "Family" plan now.
i would only switch to tmo or sprint and sprint has ****ty service here so that leave tmo...
nrfitchett4 said:
I didn't think you were old enough to have that choice...
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I'm 14 and pretty much control our plans because I do know so much about phones, carriers, etc. After I told my dad that we are losing our unlimited he agreed and said that we are canceling our contract and going to t-mobile when we can cause we have good coverage where we live.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
I'm thinking of crawling back to tmobile.. My first carrier. I liked magenta. Probably get an unlocked most recent Nexus.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
I don't know when I was looking at carriers T-Mobile had some pretty ****ty phones. Guess its gotten a little better. I didn't realize that AT&T had upgraded all/any of their HTC handsets to ICS.
all you suckers can easily leave verizon cuz you're getting ripped off as it is...
unfortunately, i can't. my bill is MAD cheap because i've been with them for 15+ years, so i can't go anywhere else because i'll automatically be paying more.
man my parents have been with them for like 11 years and we pay $180 a month
I think unless you buy google's flagship development device like the nexus, you will be behind at least 1 version of android os no matter what carrier you have. It's a distinguishing selling point for new phones that are out. Personally, I think the rezound kicks every phone's ass that verizon sells aside from the GS3, but verizon wants to keep customers renewing their contracts every 18 months. They get nothing from people if they are keeping their old phones that are being continually updated with new software.
Don't know why carriers are so anxious to sell new phones when they loose money on them. Contracts don't keep customers good service and pricing does.
I pay $104 for just my rezound + insurance
Between the schedule posted on their website still showing the same old news and their $100 offer, I don't believe they have any intention of upgrading the Atrix or the Photon. The Atrix is now two generations old and the Photon also has a successor, so I don't think they have any incentive to upgrade them; too much time has gone by.
I believe that is the reason why they even mentioned the $100 offer. It means they already have a plan in place. They want people to upgrade and not keep their current devices.
I understand the business policy but as a customer, the policy doesn't appeal to me; it just screws us as customers. My contract is up in December and come January, I will upgrade. Just not with Motorola.
In any case, the Note II is very tempting to me. Moto doesn't have anything in that size on Sprint, so there's no competition. But if Motorola did have something to go up against the Note, I would not choose Motorola again. It would take an outstanding phone (at the right time) to get me to choose Moto again.
Hence, I have given up hope that Moto will one day upgrade our phones to ICS/JB.
Anything else from now on will be a pleasant surprise.
There....I have made my peace, Motorola.
My theory is, if they update the Atrix, they'll update the Photon. If they don't update the Atrix, they won't update the photon. So if a soak or whatever doesn't start in the next two weeks, then give up hope. But as of now, Motorola hasn't broken their word. Also you could maybe have put this in a already existing ICS debate thread. God knows we have enough of these new threads and come October we might be seeing a whole lot more of em :/
Acvice said:
My theory is, if they update the Atrix, they'll update the Photon. If they don't update the Atrix, they won't update the photon. So if a soak or whatever doesn't start in the next two weeks, then give up hope. But as of now, Motorola hasn't broken their word. Also you could maybe have put this in a already existing ICS debate thread. God knows we have enough of these new threads and come October we might be seeing a whole lot more of em :/
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^ THIS
I have too say it will be a sad time for all of us if ICS doesn't cone to photon. Ifbao the most,if not all of us will take the upgrade. I for one really want the note 2 but wouldn't trade in my photon unless I absolutely had too.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
There might also be a slim glimmer of hope that they skip the ICS upgrade and go straight to JB. These phones are more than capable of running JB and the jump from Gingerbread to ICS is a much larger jump than ICS to JB. So only time will tell. There are various posts saying that all 2011 phones that will be upgraded to JB will have it before the year is up. So its all rumors and speculation at this time but hey, one can be optimistic right?
I will add this - at least Motorola has the excuse of being a money-losing company that had the distraction of being acquired by Google over the last year. And they are at least offering a mea culpa and promising to update all phones released since 2011 that will handle JB or give customers $100 toward a new phone. Samsung made $4 billion dollars and has still not updated the Galaxy S2 to ICS and in my mind they have no excuse. It doesn't have merit as far as I am concerned for these companies to simply say "we have to concentrate on development for new phones and can't spend resources on older models" because, first of all, we are stuck in two year contracts, not by choice but because that's the business model we're stuck with (I know pre-paid is getting better but is not quite there yet for my needs). Secondly, if they drop support the second we buy their products what reason do we have for purchasing another phone from them when our 20 months are up and we're ready to upgrade? The business case is there for manufacturers to support older models for much longer than three months especially if the carriers are so entrenched with their beloved two year contracts. A year old phone is not ancient. The Photon has a dual core processor, etc. and is just handicapped by GB. I will also add this: Apple supports phones for years with iOS updates, they bypass the carriers on the updates and they simply pare down the features that the older phones don't support. I had an old iPhone 3G and I remember how much iOS 4 slowed it down when it was first released. To Apple's credit they could have simply said it couldn't handle iOS 4 and dropped support for it but they didn't. And no phone manufacturer is more profitable than Apple. So, yes, I, too am disgusted at how long it has taken to get ICS or JB on my Photon but I am even more disgusted with Samsung who clearly have the resources to keep their phones up to date and do not.
I would also like to know why the GS2 is still being sold in spite of the fact it's a WiMax device but the Photon was pulled prematurely because Sprint was phasing out WiMax devices. AT&T has gotten the Atrix HD, Verizon of course gets the latest and greatest from Motorola and all Sprint gets is a throwback to keyboard slider phones with qHD resolution. Sprint and Motorola don't seem to get along very well.
I'm done with Motorola even if we do get jelly sandwich. It just isn't right. My next phone won't be a Motorola phone.
InsanePostman said:
There might also be a slim glimmer of hope that they skip the ICS upgrade and go straight to JB. These phones are more than capable of running JB and the jump from Gingerbread to ICS is a much larger jump than ICS to JB. So only time will tell. There are various posts saying that all 2011 phones that will be upgraded to JB will have it before the year is up. So its all rumors and speculation at this time but hey, one can be optimistic right?
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No, it's obvious they are just skipping ICS & JB to provide us with Key Lime Pie
jorjitoc said:
And they are at least offering a mea culpa and promising to update all phones released since 2011 that will handle JB or give customers $100 toward a new phone.
Samsung made $4 billion dollars and has still not updated the Galaxy S2 to ICS and in my mind they have no excuse.
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First of all that is a BS offer. The $100 is towards a new upgrade and we have to turn in our phones. We can get more than that on CL. $100 is the least we can expect to get for a Photon.
Second of all, Samsung upgraded the GSII to ICS way back in March.
Its only here, in the US that the carriers f#%k it up. So blame the US carriers, not Samsung.
ICS for the GSII was available in Europe and most parts of the world a long time ago. In fact T-Mobile GSII got the update in June. And now there are reports of the GSII getting the JB update soon.
More importantly, resources are available for proper development of after-market custom ROMs for the Galaxy phones. We don't have that for the Photon/Atrix/_____ from Motorola/Nvidia.
So how is Samsung worse?
jorjitoc said:
"Samsung made $4 billion dollars and has still not updated the Galaxy S2 to ICS and in my mind they have no excuse."
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Seriously?
All SII's are running ICS long ago and soon Jelly Bean.
And On Behalf Of my wife who has the photon, a big FU to Motorola.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
We should let Motorola know how we feel about their OS update policy, but I guess we are not too many Photon users... How about the Atrix users? Aren't they a lot of people?
You are right..... Motorola should know about this.... as they are not updatng.....n also not unlockng bootloader of...photon....
I am stuck to 2.3.5...
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Omar04 said:
Seriously?
All SII's are running ICS long ago and soon Jelly Bean.
And On Behalf Of my wife who has the photon, a big FU to Motorola.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
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I don't disagree that we have every reason to be disgusted with how long we've had to wait for ICS on the Photon - I said as much. I think my point is valid, however, that Samsung is in a much better position than Motorola has been over the last 12-18 months clearly. Samsung is printing money and apparently have a much better relationship with Sprint. Great, there are leaks of ICS Roms out there for the GS2, but just as many officially released ICS or JB Roms for the Sprint (or Verizon) GS2 as there are for the Photon. Motorola has released a schedule stating they would release ICS as early as next month, same as Samsung. Do I think Sprint is to blame in all this as well? Absolutely. All the carriers are. How does Apple manage to release iOS updates without carrier approval and in a timely manner but Samsung and Motorola do not? Why does the iPhone 3GS have the latest version of iOS but the Epic 4G runs Gingerbread and always will (and Droid phones on Verizon as well)? We are fooling ourselves if we think Samsung is doing any better than the others save Apple. Custom Roms are custom roms and so are leaks. They aren't fully functioning, officially supported firmwares for our phones. So my discussion is not about what third party or ported leaks are out there. It's about the manufacturers supporting the phones through the carriers in the same environment that Apple functions in, but somehow does a better job.
I am not a Samsung basher. My wife and I just bought GS3's (she's on AT&T and OMG the speeds are fast) this past weekend because I gave up on ICS for the Photon, wanted LTE capability and didn't like the iPhone 5 still having 16GB in the base model and no SD card. I also think the screen is too small. I think it is a fantastically engineered phone with better build quality than any other phone - it just doesn't suit my needs. The Photon Q is a step backwards, I think. Who wants a clunky keyboard slider with qHD resolution? I went in with eyes open, though. I figure I'll get JB on my GS3 and any other updates after that will be gravy with no expectations on my part that it will ever get another update. In my mind my only other choice was the HTC EVO LTE and I just felt like as poorly as it was selling that I would be jumping into the same situation I had with the Photon - great phone but no support due to slow sales, etc.
I do think Google wants to make Motorola set the example for the other manufacturers and going forward I really expect Motorola to provide much more timely updates for their phones. Maybe I was snowed by the speech their new CEO gave at the RAZR HD unveiling but it felt like they had a new attitude. They have already released phones with unlockable bootloaders and developer editions and that is a major shift in philosophy for them. They do make high quality phones. If this new guy takes them in the direction I think he is then I think Motorola is going to have some really good phones going forward.
That's just my take on things and my opinion. I don't work for Apple, Motorola, Google or Samsung. I have no proprietary interest in any of this. I'm not posting this to argue or flame anyone - just joining the discussion and pointing out some things that I think are/were missed in the discussion.
I like what you wrote. But I disagree in one point. Everyone thinks how GS3 is a step forward and Photon Q and other new dual core phones, is a step backward.
GS3 is quad core, but it's a placebo. No new technology. Just the same cores made a little smaller, so there could be a place for four of them.
Photon Q is dual core with latest CortexA15 cores and the same speed (and more in some operations) as GS3, with reduced power consumption. You cannot write, it's a step backward.
But it's not phone for everyone, because of the keyboard.
I am not sure about the display, but I read, that displays with colorboost are compared to IPhone. And me personally, I would abandon whole amoled technology. I want more phones with LCD displays.
jorjitoc said:
I don't disagree that we have every reason to be disgusted with how long we've had to wait for ICS on the Photon - I said as much. I think my point is valid, however, that Samsung is in a much better position than Motorola has been over the last 12-18 months clearly. Samsung is printing money and apparently have a much better relationship with Sprint. Motorola has released a schedule stating they would release ICS as early as next month, same as Samsung. Do I think Sprint is to blame in all this as well? Absolutely. All the carriers are. How does Apple manage to release iOS updates without carrier approval and in a timely manner but Samsung and Motorola do not? Why does the iPhone 3GS have the latest version of iOS but the Epic 4G runs Gingerbread and always will (and Droid phones on Verizon as well)? We are fooling ourselves if we think Samsung is doing any better than the others save Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you missed my post (at least that's what it seems to me).
Samsung's official ICS update for the GS II came out in March! Nearly half a year ago!
If Samsung can take the code, slap TW on it, test it and release it all over the world within 4 months of ICS release, what do you think is holding up the update in the US?
Its the carriers in the US who muck it up for the manufacturers.
Sprint, Sprint and solely Sprint is responsible for the updates on our phones. They make the calls and dictate terms to manufacturers.
The US mobile network companies are the reason. They have sole control over which phones are allowed to run on their network. If the manufacturers don't comply, they don't get to sell their phones on that network. Apple is the only one who has the power to command the networks to do as it wishes. No one else has that power; it took Samsung years to even get them to sell an unmodified version of its GS III flagship.
Is Samsung perfect, No. But it definitely has improved over the years.
Heck Google/Samsung update the Galaxy Nexus a while ago; but Verizon and Sprint didn't send out the updates until last week.
Whose fault is that?
hirent said:
I believe you missed my post (at least that's what it seems to me).
Samsung's official ICS update for the GS II came out in March! Nearly half a year ago!
If Samsung can take the code, slap TW on it, test it and release it all over the world within 4 months of ICS release, what do you think is holding up the update in the US?
Its the carriers in the US who muck it up for the manufacturers.
Sprint, Sprint and solely Sprint is responsible for the updates on our phones. They make the calls and dictate terms to manufacturers.
The US mobile network companies are the reason. They have sole control over which phones are allowed to run on their network. If the manufacturers don't comply, they don't get to sell their phones on that network. Apple is the only one who has the power to command the networks to do as it wishes. No one else has that power; it took Samsung years to even get them to sell an unmodified version of its GS III flagship.
Is Samsung perfect, No. But it definitely has improved over the years.
Heck Google/Samsung update the Galaxy Nexus a while ago; but Verizon and Sprint didn't send out the updates until last week.
Whose fault is that?
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Click to collapse
I saw that there was a leak for European GS2's but is there an official Sprint or Verizon firmware available anywhere? Did it bomb WiMax loading it? I think we're saying some of the same things. The carriers love their two year contracts but then make you use an outdated phone for the last 20 months of it because they don't want to release updates. Totally agreed on that. I'm a little incredulous that Sprint has sat on an update for six months but I know they like to sit on updates. I have a wifi Xoom and got ICS for it in late March (and JB a month ago) and I know Verizon just released ICS for their Xoom not that long ago so maybe Sprint has sat on it.
I don't like how locked down Motorola keeps their bootloaders (but I think that was Sanjay's thing) and slipping a fix in to the 2.3.5 update was equally $hitty.
I have a GS3 now so hopefully Samsung does keep it up to date. I'll still go back and try out my Photon if they ever get ICS released for it. I'll add one more thing and I can say this pretty confidently after spending a lot of time with both - I think Motorola has done a fantastic job with their implementation of ICS versus Samsung with their TW ICS. My wife had the Atrix HD for a week before returning it (lousy camera - everything else was nice) and I loved the OS on it. I think TW is fugly. I installed Nova and Apex launchers and settled on Nova. Disabled S Voice in favor of Google. I'm hoping they go closer to stock for JB. I got off topic but my point is that Motorola is doing some good things with their phones. They didn't bring one to Sprint soon enough for me to buy one again but in spite of all the BS we've put up with our Photons, I think they're on the right track.
It looks like the official ICS for the GS2 came out 7/12:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/com.../12/07/samsung-epic-touch-4g-software-updates
So I would say still not impressive for Sprint/Samsung (better than Moto but still 8 months after it was released).
jorjitoc said:
I don't disagree that we have every reason to be disgusted with how long we've had to wait for ICS on the Photon - I said as much. I think my point is valid, however, that Samsung is in a much better position than Motorola has been over the last 12-18 months clearly. Samsung is printing money and apparently have a much better relationship with Sprint. Great, there are leaks of ICS Roms out there for the GS2, but just as many officially released ICS or JB Roms for the Sprint (or Verizon) GS2 as there are for the Photon. Motorola has released a schedule stating they would release ICS as early as next month, same as Samsung. Do I think Sprint is to blame in all this as well? Absolutely. All the carriers are. How does Apple manage to release iOS updates without carrier approval and in a timely manner but Samsung and Motorola do not? Why does the iPhone 3GS have the latest version of iOS but the Epic 4G runs Gingerbread and always will (and Droid phones on Verizon as well)? We are fooling ourselves if we think Samsung is doing any better than the others save Apple. Custom Roms are custom roms and so are leaks. They aren't fully functioning, officially supported firmwares for our phones. So my discussion is not about what third party or ported leaks are out there. It's about the manufacturers supporting the phones through the carriers in the same environment that Apple functions in, but somehow does a better job.
I am not a Samsung basher. My wife and I just bought GS3's (she's on AT&T and OMG the speeds are fast) this past weekend because I gave up on ICS for the Photon, wanted LTE capability and didn't like the iPhone 5 still having 16GB in the base model and no SD card. I also think the screen is too small. I think it is a fantastically engineered phone with better build quality than any other phone - it just doesn't suit my needs. The Photon Q is a step backwards, I think. Who wants a clunky keyboard slider with qHD resolution? I went in with eyes open, though. I figure I'll get JB on my GS3 and any other updates after that will be gravy with no expectations on my part that it will ever get another update. In my mind my only other choice was the HTC EVO LTE and I just felt like as poorly as it was selling that I would be jumping into the same situation I had with the Photon - great phone but no support due to slow sales, etc.
I do think Google wants to make Motorola set the example for the other manufacturers and going forward I really expect Motorola to provide much more timely updates for their phones. Maybe I was snowed by the speech their new CEO gave at the RAZR HD unveiling but it felt like they had a new attitude. They have already released phones with unlockable bootloaders and developer editions and that is a major shift in philosophy for them. They do make high quality phones. If this new guy takes them in the direction I think he is then I think Motorola is going to have some really good phones going forward.
That's just my take on things and my opinion. I don't work for Apple, Motorola, Google or Samsung. I have no proprietary interest in any of this. I'm not posting this to argue or flame anyone - just joining the discussion and pointing out some things that I think are/were missed in the discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I own an Epic 4G Touch Galaxy S2 and ICS has been officially released by July 2012 current official release Build FH13 4.0.4. And Tmo and ATT variants 2 weeks earlier than the E4GT Android 4.0.3. And JB for SGSII International start roll out by end of this year Officially announced by Sammy, US variants Q1 2013. I won't hold my breath on the latter
I always had trouble with Motorola since DROID X(milestone x) then Photon and finally gave up and pass it to my wife.
I agree with you in some parts about Sammy and Moto. But you keep saying SGSII did not have official ICS yet only leaks. :what:
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
I agree, we won't be getting ics... only because we'll jump straight to jelly bean gotta have hope lol
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
I feel the pain with no official ICS or JB, but my last Sammy (Epic 4G) had so-so reception and would drop/loose the signal much quicker than the Photon....actually my Photon DOESN'T loose a signal. My wife's Galaxy Nexus on Verizon doesn't hold on or switch as gracefully between 3G/4G/WiFi as the Photon, the radio is still a 1/2 step or so behind the Motorola radio. Unfortunately, I need to pick signal and the ability to use my phone over the OS version, so the Samsungs are out until they come up with a radio equal to (or better) than what Morotola uses.
Seems on CDMA the customers are stuck behind the rock and a hard place. I switched from At&t to Spring a couple years ago and the number of dropped calls practically dropped to zero. (I had a Blackberry on Att, btw, so it wasn't the phone....this was in their heyday as well). I'm elligible for an upgrade, but there isn't anyting worthy of replacing my Photon. If they ever fix the 4G unlock issue, I'm so going to Joker or Th3Bill's JB build.
iamx89 said:
I agree, we won't be getting ics... only because we'll jump straight to jelly bean gotta have hope lol
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
one can hope lol :good:
I'm done with Motorola even if we do get jelly sandwich. It just isn't right. My next phone won't be a Motorola phone.
If we look around on the net EVERYONE is piss off. NO ICS or JB at this point they will be coming out with Key Line soon and the Atrix and Photon just got thrown under the bus.
Very piss here, and now they will be giving 100 dollars, Oh please! Did anyone saw the form a mile long to see if you qualify for the discount.
This is my last moto, period.
http://www.htc.com/us/support/htc-titan-att/software-updates
By this article it looks like HTC is taking efforts to update our phone to 8773 Tango, well better anything than nothing, what i am hoping is to finally get some changes in bootloader after instaling this update
nikola92 said:
http://www.htc.com/us/support/htc-titan-att/software-updates
By this article it looks like HTC is taking efforts to update our phone to 8773 Tango, well better anything than nothing, what i am hoping is to finally get some changes in bootloader after instaling this update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible that this update needs to proceed before upgrading to 7.8? Seeing that ATT failed at life by not pushing the Tango update to its customers -or any update, HTC could be picking up the slack here with this. 7.8 has NOT been announced yet...so that is probably why they have not introduced it yet on their website.
All this is opinionated though...I would hope that HTC pushes out 7.8 to the Titans...just saying, their are more Titan 1 owners than Titan 2's. There would be a lot of angry folks out there if they didn't.
OR this could be another LG kind of like thing. But I highly doubt that seeing HTC pushed out many WP's during its lifetime.
Let's wait and see what happens. If it turns out that they are only pushing out Tango... I guess it'll be time to bring out the pitchforks.
hehe i just wonder if people from USA can check if the update exist, since i am in europe region and thats the problem, i mailed HTC and they said that in some regions Microsoft pushed update, HTC is just anouncer the one that is pushing update is Microsoft, i just apel on som USA folks with stock cingular rom on 7740 with at&t titan to check via Zune for update. THX
nikola92 said:
hehe i just wonder if people from USA can check if the update exist, since i am in europe region and thats the problem, i mailed HTC and they said that in some regions Microsoft pushed update, HTC is just anouncer the one that is pushing update is Microsoft, i just apel on som USA folks with stock cingular rom on 7740 with at&t titan to check via Zune for update. THX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in Dallas Texas and contacted AT&T yesterday regarding this update and they told me to contact HTC, HTC said to contact AT&T. Both contact eforts were through email or online chat. I just had my phone replaced under warranty and have the service groups phone number due to issues I am having. I will contact them via phone and ask the same questions.
Nothing comes up in Zune for the update.
Definately a dissapointment if nothing happens. I want and need the first update and then of course 7.8 update.
Rickgig said:
I am in Dallas Texas and contacted AT&T yesterday regarding this update and they told me to contact HTC, HTC said to contact AT&T. Both contact eforts were through email or online chat. I just had my phone replaced under warranty and have the service groups phone number due to issues I am having. I will contact them via phone and ask the same questions.
Nothing comes up in Zune for the update.
Definately a dissapointment if nothing happens. I want and need the first update and then of course 7.8 update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what happens when you contact customer support. No one knows what the hell is going on half the time, especially petty customer support people -like you talked to. The customer support side is the LAST to know about important information. It's sad, but true.
I guarantee you that I had the same exact thing happen to me when I was trying to find out if Tango was going to be pushed out to our phones. I was told to contact HTC by ATT and vice versa. Same old blah blah. It was a never ending cycle that just made me angry even more. Word of advice: don't bother contacting them unless you have an issue with your phone. Nothing but lies and workarounds by uninformed customer support people.
Anyway, just sit tight for the real information...it's pretty much all you can do right now.
xconomicron said:
This is what happens when you contact customer support. No one knows what the hell is going on half the time, especially petty customer support people -like you talked to. The customer support side is the LAST to know about important information. It's sad, but true.
I guarantee you that I had the same exact thing happen to me when I was trying to find out if Tango was going to be pushed out to our phones. I was told to contact HTC by ATT and vice versa. Same old blah blah. It was a never ending cycle that just made me angry even more. Word of advice: don't bother contacting them unless you have an issue with your phone. Nothing but lies and workarounds by uninformed customer support people.
Anyway, just sit tight for the real information...it's pretty much all you can do right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait and Wait and wait some more... spoke to customer service today via the phone and it was less than productive. I had to take her to HTC's webpage where HTC talks about the update. Left it for her to chase and call me back. Called while I was in the shower and they said HTC wanted to push the update to my phone but couldn't because there was no release date on the update, the next best option was for me to remove Zune and reinstall it and then check for an update. Did that and nothing.
Frustrated... my thinking is we won't get any satisfaction. Not sure what to do at this point. Phone works with the exception of the keybard issue that drives us all nuts and then the call quality.
I have had two Tilt phones, a Fuze and even though I have one Titan, I warrantied it out about 5 times now and coninually request the same phone but beginning to doubt my reasoning. It may be time for a new carrier and a different phone manufacturer. I've been a customer of AT&T since cell phones first came out (late 70's early 80's?) and a customer of HTC's for maybe 5 years. Which means nothing.
nikola92 said:
http://www.htc.com/us/support/htc-titan-att/software-updates
By this article it looks like HTC is taking efforts to update our phone to 8773 Tango, well better anything than nothing, what i am hoping is to finally get some changes in bootloader after instaling this update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize this is aggravating for many and I too had AT&T and own two Titan I. We're now with Straight Talk (AT&T Network). My device is Interop/Developer Unlocked so I update the "XDA" way; my wife's device remains like all of yours...from 7720 to 8773 can be done in increments via Cab Sender. It doesn't matter what device you're using; this is simply the Operating System itself. The following link will get y'all started.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1736982
Rickgig said:
Wait and Wait and wait some more... spoke to customer service today via the phone and it was less than productive. I had to take her to HTC's webpage where HTC talks about the update. Left it for her to chase and call me back. Called while I was in the shower and they said HTC wanted to push the update to my phone but couldn't because there was no release date on the update, the next best option was for me to remove Zune and reinstall it and then check for an update. Did that and nothing.
Frustrated... my thinking is we won't get any satisfaction. Not sure what to do at this point. Phone works with the exception of the keybard issue that drives us all nuts and then the call quality.
I have had two Tilt phones, a Fuze and even though I have one Titan, I warrantied it out about 5 times now and coninually request the same phone but beginning to doubt my reasoning. It may be time for a new carrier and a different phone manufacturer. I've been a customer of AT&T since cell phones first came out (late 70's early 80's?) and a customer of HTC's for maybe 5 years. Which means nothing.
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Click to collapse
Yes exactly...this is what you are gonna get every time. HTC doesn't know what is going on because ATT was "supposed" to push out the updates..but didn't. -In fact ATT failed at pushing out the Tango update to about 85% of their phones. I think HTC only handles firmware and bootloader updates as ATT handles the OS updates. Updating your phone through the cab sender will fix the keyboard problem. As for the call quality, this is not going to get fixed unless they push out another radio firmware -which they haven't and probably never will.
Anyway, be patient. I am sure 7.8 will be announced soon by either MS or HTC/ATT. Everybody on ATT feels your frustration...and I'm sure ATT loses quite a few sales with this. But remember, in spite of our frustration, the company will never change its standards with this. Every carriers goal is to make $$ and updating customer phones does provide this for them. It however may provide customer satisfaction, but we all know ATT doesn't care about this at all. They would much rather you go buy a new phone to better suit your needs. It's plain and simple capitalism in your hands.
I too have thought about switching carriers before, unfortunately there are perks to having ATT than any other carriers. Especially in Texas...Example, I currently live in San Antonio, but I used to live in a small rural Texas town where some of my family still reside. This town and the surrounding towns only have small radio towers that power only ATT radio frequencies. Getting service from other carriers such as Verizon or Sprint which operate CDMA frequencies is next to impossible. I'm sure I would be able to get 2g bands if I had T-Mobile...but it is something I don't want to risk. Well anyway...I'm sure I don't have to go on with the example as you are from Texas also.
Another perk is the device lineup compared the other carriers. I'm sure you can relate to this also....
xconomicron said:
Yes exactly...this is what you are gonna get every time. HTC doesn't know what is going on because ATT was "supposed" to push out the updates..but didn't. -In fact ATT failed at pushing out the Tango update to about 85% of their phones. I think HTC only handles firmware and bootloader updates as ATT handles the OS updates. Updating your phone through the cab sender will fix the keyboard problem. As for the call quality, this is not going to get fixed unless they push out another radio firmware -which they haven't and probably never will.
Anyway, be patient. I am sure 7.8 will be announced soon by either MS or HTC/ATT. Everybody on ATT feels your frustration...and I'm sure ATT loses quite a few sales with this. But remember, in spite of our frustration, the company will never change its standards with this. Every carriers goal is to make $$ and updating customer phones does provide this for them. It however may provide customer satisfaction, but we all know ATT doesn't care about this at all. They would much rather you go buy a new phone to better suit your needs. It's plain and simple capitalism in your hands.
I too have thought about switching carriers before, unfortunately there are perks to having ATT than any other carriers. Especially in Texas...Example, I currently live in San Antonio, but I used to live in a small rural Texas town where some of my family still reside. This town and the surrounding towns only have small radio towers that power only ATT radio frequencies. Getting service from other carriers such as Verizon or Sprint which operate CDMA frequencies is next to impossible. I'm sure I would be able to get 2g bands if I had T-Mobile...but it is something I don't want to risk. Well anyway...I'm sure I don't have to go on with the example as you are from Texas also.
Another perk is the device lineup compared the other carriers. I'm sure you can relate to this also....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point well taken and I have thought about that. I am just generally honked off at the lack of customer service for someone with the tenure I have.
I have a thought... Like most owners of Titan phones, we have had them about a year maybe less. For me it will be a year sometime in December. Like most, I signed a two-year contract.
My thought is this, that contract (I am sure I can find it laying around somewhere and read it... for the first time) surely states what we are expected to do and what they are expected to do. If we all bought phones that AT&T no longer wants to support due to the OS being replaced (WP 8.xx) then they can replace my phone with a phone that is current in technology. My grounds for this would be, it is obvious that the updates to the OS have been available to other WindowsPhone devices but somehow AT&T has decided to ignore this release for some reason or another. Not sure if AT&T rolled these updates out to other phone but if they didn't, then this argument would be even stronger.
If I were to cancel my contract today, AT&T would enforce the penalty or charge back or whatever you want to call it. However, we have phones that are not up to date according to the current release available for the WP7.xx platform. This is flat wrong and may be a pursuable argument.
Thoughts????
Rickgig said:
I have a thought... Like most owners of Titan phones, we have had them about a year maybe less. For me it will be a year sometime in December. Like most, I signed a two-year contract.
My thought is this, that contract (I am sure I can find it laying around somewhere and read it... for the first time) surely states what we are expected to do and what they are expected to do. If we all bought phones that AT&T no longer wants to support due to the OS being replaced (WP 8.xx) then they can replace my phone with a phone that is current in technology. My grounds for this would be, it is obvious that the updates to the OS have been available to other WindowsPhone devices but somehow AT&T has decided to ignore this release for some reason or another. Not sure if AT&T rolled these updates out to other phone but if they didn't, then this argument would be even stronger.
If I were to cancel my contract today, AT&T would enforce the penalty or charge back or whatever you want to call it. However, we have phones that are not up to date according to the current release available for the WP7.xx platform. This is flat wrong and may be a pursuable argument.
Thoughts????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible that this argument could be relevant...however, you may have to look at it from another standpoint that would make your argument have flaws. For instance, our devices are not the only devices that are not updated to current technology. -Meaning Android users that are still on Froyo, Gingerbread, ICS...etc could argue the same thing. I just want to point out that Android users have it slightly worse than us at this point, in which updates are "rarely" seen on these type of phones. Updates are pushed out from the OEMs to the carriers, but still the carriers refuse to forward the updates to the phones. I remember reading an article about Android phones and updates on a random tech site just recently. Basically it stated that updates to these types of phones on the US carriers are "very" limited and rare. Oh look I found the article!
http://news.discovery.com/tech/android-ice-cream-sandwich-jelly-bean-updates-121013.html
So with that said, I'm sure that if you tried to cancel your contract with them and enforced your argument you stated here, you will still be entitled to the penalty of canceling the contract. This maybe a different argument but I have seen where carriers have made people still pay the penalty charges even if a person has to cancel the contract due to legal/personal reasons (death, going out of the country, identity theft, etc). If I could give an analogy to contracts on phone carriers, they would be like "student loans." -Both entity's motto suggests "somebody has to pay for something."
Now going back on topic, if by some miracle ATT gave into this argument, I would be overwhelmingly surprised because millions of customers could do the same exact thing you wanted to do. Contracts with carriers are carefully worded to where loopholes like this can't happen.
Anyway, if you happen to try this argument of yours and it works, let me know. I would be right behind you on this! As a tech enthusiast, I am always wanting more -in terms of current technology. I consider my phone to be another piece of technology that I've personalized to enhance my own technology experiences. Most people who own phones, would have another viewpoint -which is basically just a "communication device." Since I've been on ATT ever since they merged with Cingular, I know abandoned updates on phones, such as in our situation, is extremely frustrating. A typical user who only uses the phone for means of communication would probably not even acknowledge that phones "have updates" that enhance the user experience. But then again, that is why I am here on XDA -to better myself with this. Ever since Windows Mobile 5, I've learned that if you want to enhance your experience with these devices this is the place to be. Over the years on this forum, I've learned that getting what you want and need for your phone is easier than it looks.
Anyway, I think this post is long enough. lol. If anybody else wants to chime in and explain some further reasoning of why this argument would not work...then be my guest. Till next time....