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Not sure if this is the correct forum to post this. I have searched the web and this forum and only found partial answers so please excuse me if this has been discussed. If so a reply with the link would be very helpful.
With AMD and Intel both producing low powered x86 chips, especially AMDs C-50 which incorporates the Radeon HD graphics processor on the same chip, I was wondering if there are any limitations for hardware manufacturers to use these kind of chips on Tablets running Android.
I know currently Google does not have an x86 port of their own, but are there any particular reasons that would stop them if the chips were comparable in power usage and have faster performance? What would be some drawbacks? Would all the apps run fine on the x86 architecture or would each app need to be recompiled to run on these devices?
I guess what I'm really asking is with your expertise do you see x86 processors as a future of Android tablet computing?
Thanks in advance for all the input.
In theory, they'd just have to re-write the bytecode interpreter on the Dalvik-VM (Assuming it works like Sun's Java VM) Everything you run on your android is on a virtual machine, meaning it has the capability of being cross platform. So yes. It's very possible.
http://www.androidx86.org have you checked this site out??
1st ICS build for virtual machines
Just check out this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=19824180
Given the choice with all other things being equal, I'd take a modern ARM over an X86 chip, unless I'm going to run Windows ware. I've used x86 for like almost 20 out of nearly 23.5 years, and wouldn't trust an X86 Android tablet, now that I've dug into my TF .
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Spidey01 said:
Given the choice with all other things being equal, I'd take a modern ARM over an X86 chip, unless I'm going to run Windows ware. I've used x86 for like almost 20 out of nearly 23.5 years, and wouldn't trust an X86 Android tablet, now that I've dug into my TF .
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldnt trust it for what reason?
Windows 8 will be released with an x86 and ARM version.
The Android OS itself runs very smoothly on x86, I have been using a small hp thinclient t5565 as a debug machine instead of my phone or a virtual machine for 2 weeks now and it performs admirably. Granted I cant play HD games on it, but thats what I have the Enjoy 7 tablet for. android-x86 is just brilliant, in many cases the generic froyo and gingerbread builds breathe new life into old rusty machines, making them very useful once more. The only thing missing, is better generic hardware support for ethernet and various 3D display devices. I am currently looking at an option of using android-x86 as a swop and go solution, since my test machine runs the installed system completely from a USB thumb drive. Which means if it breaks, pull the stick out, pop in another machine and you are back to work. Perfect solution for a POS terminal, library internet access machine or even something to keep the kids out of your hair.
ashmem in Android x86
I developed a simple shared memory IPC in Linux already and I would also like to do it in Android x86.
Does anyone knows on how to do this(shared memory or should I call it "ashmem"?) ?
I really need your help. I'm still a beginner in Android x86, so I hope you can give a step-by-step guide.
hey guys there is a rumor about windows 8 coming out for tablets and im so excited for that .. yet my question is will this windows 8 for tablet be able to run windows games like a PC ? lets say i want to install some game like Need for speed or call of duty will it be able to run it as a PC windows ?
Thanks
With all respect
madshark2009 said:
hey guys there is a rumor about windows 8 coming out for tablets and im so excited for that .. yet my question is will this windows 8 for tablet be able to run windows games like a PC ? lets say i want to install some game like Need for speed or call of duty will it be able to run it as a PC windows ?
Thanks
With all respect
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tablet based on Tegra or Snapdragon gets Windows RT. This is Windows for ARM and will not run normal PC games.
Tabled based on X86 (for example Intel) gets Windows 8. This is windows for PC and will be able to run normal PC games (and windows applications). (if the GPU has enough power ofcourse)
Though I expect the ARM version will have much better battery life and is more suitable for a tablet.
And keep in mind that game developers are already making game engines for Windows RT. For example, there is already a demo for the Unreal3 Engine.
madshark2009 said:
hey guys there is a rumor about windows 8 coming out for tablets and im so excited for that .. yet my question is will this windows 8 for tablet be able to run windows games like a PC ? lets say i want to install some game like Need for speed or call of duty will it be able to run it as a PC windows ?
Thanks
With all respect
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe you're expecting to intall windows on Prime. Sorry to dissapoint you, but this will not be possible.. Windows 8 for tablet will only be available for OEM.
ooh thanks guys ! and what do you mean only available on oem ? ive seen videos on youtube about this asus having windows 8 on it ? well ?
madshark2009 said:
ooh thanks guys ! and what do you mean only available on oem ? ive seen videos on youtube about this asus having windows 8 on it ? well ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only available to manufacturers. Is not like normal windows where you buy a license on a store and install on any x86 computer. Is more like Windows Phones where the OS is attached with the phone..
And since is a closed source OS, i doubt the community can install it on other devices (maybe on tablets where exists models for both versions with the same hardware this can be done, i don't know)
madshark2009 said:
ooh thanks guys ! and what do you mean only available on oem ? ive seen videos on youtube about this asus having windows 8 on it ? well ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you search wikipedia for Windows 8 RT you will see the hardware requirements and then see why you should not expect to see W8 on the TFP:
Hardware buttons: Must have five hardware buttons - 'Power', 'Rotation lock', 'Windows Key', 'Volume-up', 'Volume-down'. The Windows Key to be at least 10.5 mm in diameter.
Five-point digitizers: Microsoft requires that Windows 8 touch PCs use digitizers supporting a minimum of five touch points.
Mobile Broadband: If a mobile broadband device is integrated into a tablet or convertible system, then an assisted GPS radio is required
Display: Minimum native resolution/color depth is 1366x768 at a depth of 32-bits. The physical dimensions of the display panel must match the aspect ratio of the native resolution. The native resolution of the panel can be greater than 1366 (horizontally) and 768 (vertically).
Near field communication: Devices supporting NFC need to have visual marks to help users locate and use the proximity technology.
New button combination for Control-Alt-Delete: The new option is to press Windows Key + Power.
Storage: At least 10 GB free space, after the out-of-box experience completes.
Graphics: Direct3D 10 device with WDDM 1.2 driver
Camera: Minimum resolution 1280 x 720[5]
Ambient light sensor: 1-30k lux capable with dynamic range of 5-60K.
Accelerometer: three axes with data rates at or above 50 Hz
Magnetometer and gyroscope
USB 2.0: At least one controller and exposed port.
Networking: WLAN and Bluetooth 4.0 + LE (low energy)
System firmware: UEFI
Built-in speaker and microphone[6]
If anyone can resolve the hardware issues they then have to persuade MS to supply them with W8 Licences (projected to be 85$). There is no indication that W8RT will be sold as a retail product and it will be sold to tablet manufacturers - OEM's -original equipment manufacturer / manufacturing.
If I remember correctly, there was an app you could download from Google Play Store which would allow you to run a version of Windows 8 on your Transformer tablets. It required that you have W8 installed on a desktop and connected your tablet to it. If the system can run the OS if you paid for the app, it should be able to run it standalone as well. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...
Long story short, possible but unlikely.
You're looking for Windows RT, the ARM version of Windows 8 (vs the Intel version that will run all the old apps we known and love and run on our intel computers). It is certainly possible (hell, probably extremely easy) to install Windows RT on our Transformer Primes. In fact I'd venture a guess to say most of Asus' Windows RT tablets are nothing but transformers, an extra button, and a few extra hardware features Windows mandates it have (ie the "Windows" button). That being said, in a TECHNICAL sense, it should be uber easy to install Windows RT.
The issue comes with licensing, legalese, and most of the crap most of us here hate because all it does is make our lives more difficult and expensive when we know damn well the hardware is capable. Microsoft has already said a few things that don't sit right with me. A few below:
1. All Windows RT devices must have locked UEFI bootloaders (ie, NO installing Android or Ubuntu, when all 3 COULD be installed in dual-triple boot configurations)
2. Windows RT will only be available to OEMs to be installed from the factory (no installing to Android devices, despite the hardware being capable.)
3. All Windows RT devices must only be able to install software from the market (with MS's 30% cut like Apple) and ONLY be for the metro environment, not the legacy desktop.
This all being said, I'm the proud owner of the HTC HD2 and if you look at that thing, which Microsoft said would never get Windows Phone despite satisfying 98% of their hardware specs, it's currently running the latest versions of Windows Phone AND Android (JB). This is all from a device that shipped with Windows MOBILE 6.5 in October of 2010. Performance is on par with single-core windows phones and single-core snapdragon chips (similar to what's in the original EVO).
It's possible, the question is, who's willing to cross Microsoft, and what kind of encryption needs to be broken first. It WILL happen, the question is a) how long and b) which devices are popular/worth it enough to MAKE it happen.
Until Microsoft fixes their current trajectory to their own 'clo$ed eco$y$tem' like Apple, I'll wait...
As the title suggests, from the specs the device is given. This should be possible. Since the tablet is just now coming out, there are few forums for it. Even the Nvidia forums don't have a section for it, let alone XDA's forum. Which is why this is under modding.
The Nvidia Shield Tablet meets the Windows 8.1 requirements and uses intel chipsets. It's not a matter of if as much as when. Which is my request to the devs. Make the tablet either dual boot windows 8.1 and android or a full install of windows 8.1
Best of luck to you all.
[Update]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJSWe6Ane5A
At 2:39, you get the kernal build number that comes in the stock tablet. I know very little about kernals so I leave that to your discretion.
If anyone has any comments or relevant information to help developers with pushing a windows build into the tablet please feel free speak.
Are there any forums on xda for the Shield Tablet? Its running android, and its most likely rootable.
Sincereless said:
[Update]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJSWe6Ane5A
At 2:39, you get the kernal build number that comes in the stock tablet. I know very little about kernals so I leave that to your discretion.
If anyone has any comments or relevant information to help developers with pushing a windows build into the tablet please feel free speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anybody try to root this with towelroot?
joshuabg said:
Anybody try to root this with towelroot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i just got mine and rooted it with towelroot. works great, got xposed framwork up and running.
Wait wait wait. The Shield Tablet has Intel chipsets? So I can run Desktop mode and say install Steam and play lower end games if this became feasible? I'm almost positive already that Nvidia said that the Tegra K1 has DirectX capabilities, I would LOVE to play games like Halo PC and other lower end titles on this tablet! Especially if someone made drivers that recognized the Shield Controller as an XInput device!
Which is why I started this thread. To see what the devs have to say about this. If there is any chance XDA devs can do this, it will almost certainly change the scope of gaming at home and on the go.
On a side note, there are already videos of the tegra K1 running the dolphin emulator. While previous K1 devices could only run games to a certain extent, over at the Dolphin forums the devs there are already discussing full speed emulation with almost all Gamecube games and some Wii games. For Dolphin it comes down to CPU strength since both consoles only run on 1 core. While the tablet is quad core, the software can't connect to the other 2 cores due to information process paths which leaves 1 core(They managed 2 cores as an option, not sure how) The Dolphin emu needs to atleast 2 times that to run gamecube(485mhz) games and 4 times for the Wii(800 mhz). The Nvidia Tablet is a 2ghz. Which just isn't strong enough to run wii games. So getting Windows ported over is important for overclocking the cpu efficiently to a level Wii games can handle, and pc games a bonus.
Nope, nope, nope.
Hey, guys. I just randomly ran across this thread, and I wanted to let you know that the reason why nobody has ported Windows 8 to the nVidia shield tablet is that it uses an ARM processor. Yes, this processor is made by Intel, but it is an Intel MOBILE processor, not a full x86 architecture processor.
So, although it may take some reading for you to understand the basic incompatibilities here, I will tell you that running Windows 8 on this thing is not possible in any universe. The only Windows OS which will run on an ARM processor is Windows RT. But everyone hates Windows RT, and not a single Windows RT device has been made since 2013.
However, on a happier note, Android 5.0 Lollipop does add support for x86 and 64bit processors. So, a future in which we have dual booting Windows 8 / Android tablets is not unfeasible.
For all the developers on this board, what if you had...
a higher powered Mini
AOSP, let's say Marshmallow or better
all the dev tools you'd need to get to work
...what would you, could you dream to develop this computer to do?
TV box? Gaming console? Android PC? Smart home device?
Please share with us your brainstorm ideas on this. Have fun with it and don't think about what's already out on the market... think out of the box, reach for the stars, and all the other cliches you can think of. Please share in the comments below.
Thanks!
A combination of all the above!
Smart nuclear powered anti-starship laser guns.
Just kidding, possibly a wireless router or a media server.
well I like something like win 7 ultimate. with a htpc media center,good gaming and nice professional os with good look.
not the current flat look but something more 3d like seven was.
but I am sure you prefer a idea for your Android stuff...
so what about jide making intel cherry trail devices? those could be nice for TV box or computer? or good snapdragon with long term support?
tailslol said:
well I like something like win 7 ultimate. with a htpc media center,good gaming and nice professional os with good look.
not the current flat look but something more 3d like seven was.
but I am sure you prefer a idea for your Android stuff...
so what about jide making intel cherry trail devices? those could be nice for TV box or computer? or good snapdragon with long term support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or MediaTek, but force them to give you updated kernel sources and release them to the public.
Just saying because MTK chips last longer, and perform better (except for GPU performance) than counterpart Snapdragon chips.
moriel5 said:
Or MediaTek, but force them to give you updated kernel sources and release them to the public.
Just saying because MTK chips last longer, and perform better (except for GPU performance) than counterpart Snapdragon chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not mediatek they hide their resources sometime. and absolutely not Allwinner their chip are ****s... Rockchip or amilogic S is OK in the worse case scenario...
NVIDIA tegra are pricey but good for all in ones.especialy with Google support behind.
Or you can cheat on the support by using same Chips as Android one phones, nexus. or pixel..so no source hiding.
tailslol said:
not mediatek they hide their resources sometime. and absolutely not Allwinner their chip are ****s... Rockchip or amilogic S is OK in the worse case scenario...
NVIDIA tegra are pricey but good for all in ones.especialy with Google support behind.
Or you can cheat on the support by using same Chips as Android one phones, nexus. or pixel..so no source hiding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you not see what I had witten about forcing MediaTek to release their kernel sources?
Rockchip also hides many of their kernel sources, and are a pain to work with, (I had to use an ancient computer from over a decade ago, and had to install Windows XP, since it wouldn't work with anything newer).
Allwinner are a solid choice, since they are much more open with their sources, and are much easier to work with, it's just that not many developers work with them, but those that do, testify to them being much easier to work with.
About Amlogic, I have no idea.
Nvidia, are really good, but are even worse than MediaTek and Rockchip at releasing kernel sources, so unless it's the same chipset as the Nexus 9, it needs to be out of the question.
But please no BIG.little processors, they are great on paper, however in the real world, while they deliver, they don't deliver even close to what they should, ending up being a waste of money, since the worth:cost ratio is much farther.
moriel5 said:
Did you not see what I had witten about forcing MediaTek to release their kernel sources?
Rockchip also hides many of their kernel sources, and are a pain to work with, (I had to use an ancient computer from over a decade ago, and had to install Windows XP, since it wouldn't work with anything newer).
Allwinner are a solid choice, since they are much more open with their sources, and are much easier to work with, it's just that not many developers work with them, but those that do, testify to them being much easier to work with.
About Amlogic, I have no idea.
Nvidia, are really good, but are even worse than MediaTek and Rockchip at releasing kernel sources, so unless it's the same chipset as the Nexus 9, it needs to be out of the question.
But please no BIG.little processors, they are great on paper, however in the real world, while they deliver, they don't deliver even close to what they should, ending up being a waste of money, since the worth:cost ratio is much farther.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thing about big little... nowadays with the failure of TV boxes and the slow death of tablets most big company are targeting the phone market.
and big little is mostly for phones ...
but I think the only problem is not targeting the lower end or not using too old than 2 years chips and sometime it is just better to spend a lil more for higher support and better performances.
on Nvidia side almost all chips have been open sourced by Google long time ago.
the tegra x1 in pixel c the tegra 2 3 4 and k1 in nexus tablets... so yea....
tailslol said:
the thing about big little... nowadays with the failure of TV boxes and the slow death of tablets most big company are targeting the phone market.
and big little is mostly for phones ...
but I think the only problem is not targeting the lower end or not using too old than 2 years chips and sometime it is just better to spend a lil more for higher support and better performances.
on Nvidia side almost all chips have been open sourced by Google long time ago.
the tegra x1 in pixel c the tegra 2 3 4 and k1 in nexus tablets... so yea....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah sorry, I had checked it.
And it looks like they have their own code repository now, so things have definitely changed.
RemixOS_Jason said:
For all the developers on this board, what if you had...
a higher powered Mini
AOSP, let's say Marshmallow or better
all the dev tools you'd need to get to work
...what would you, could you dream to develop this computer to do?
TV box? Gaming console? Android PC? Smart home device?
Please share with us your brainstorm ideas on this. Have fun with it and don't think about what's already out on the market... think out of the box, reach for the stars, and all the other cliches you can think of. Please share in the comments below.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would build my own version of Android!
Dual boot as much as possible!
Publish my Project ROC quicker
What about using the mini along with wireless display, and use them as a home security/automation hub? Allowing many apps and already existing "connected" devices like Philips HUE, WiFi Cameras, etc to connect and be configured for automation. Then assigning older android devices to pair and be set in various rooms, to be used as wifi motion detectors.
Well as a developer, I'd improve the way I interact with my devices as an user.
Chromecast and Android Home devices are great but they're not how the future should actually look. In my opinion Google is limiting hardware on those devices to keep prices low and make them impossible to run upcoming software, more powerful software.
Okay let's say we have an AIO device (similar to Android Home) but with a few sets of functionality baked in:
- Network attached Storage: Store all the things you want to share with the family (photos, music, movies...)
- Network attached Storage: Stream whatever is hosted in the box to the "cast enabled devices around the device"
- Network attached Storage: Synced folders between family devices per user request (similar to how resilio sync works)
- Network attached Storage: Remote access for downloads (you're out of home but you start a download that will be waiting for you when you arrive)
- Assistant: Always On Keyword detection
- Assistant: Customized context-aware commands per user inside the network (If John or his devices are not connected to the Wireless network or discoverable through BLE don't suggest content that he might like)
- Assistant: TV as a remote interface of the device with a dashboard, the device microphone as a IO device of the TV.
- Assistant: Device state awareness, notify when battery is low on x device.
BRAINSTORM -- What if Jide actually focused on getting the projects they currently have out working to perfection instead of coming out with new semi broken products?! Then, when everything worked as best as possible, Jide could come out with new stuff that makes the current goodness even better!!!! Wow, what a novel concept!
If i had it, (and if i can), I'll bring the android code and libs to windows,, it's just like WINE on Ubuntu, and isn't like the ancient emulator which is kill my usage
So,, yes... I'll open the play store just when i click it in my windows PC's, installing apk just in Program Files (Android) folder, using linux or android command in cmd (like bash actually) and getting a root access with just allow the UAC
Hi all, i have an pretty old device, specifically an HP iPAQ 216, and found someone that did an Android 2.3.7 ROM for this device.
I'm very interested about learning Android ROMs/Kernel development, and i'll modify that rom to make it smoother (obviously taking into account the hardware limits).
I'm very beginner into android development, and it would amaze me if this device can run at least Android 4.0.4.
The hardware of this device is:
4 inch Resistive touchscreen, 128MB RAM, Processor ARMv5 Intel PXA310 at 624MHz, 256MB Internal Storage, and an unknown graphics chip whose driver does not exist at all. That device runs Windows Mobile 6.0 Classic.
The graphic rendering, both in Windows Mobile and in Android, is all CPU-made because, even for Windows Mobile, the OpenGL libraries aren't supported.
I know it's really crazy the idea to make an eleven years old device run Android 4.x, but if it can run Android 2.3, why not 4.0?
MaicoLinuX said:
Hi all, i have an pretty old device, specifically an HP iPAQ 216, and found someone that did an Android 2.3.7 ROM for this device.
I'm very interested about learning Android ROMs/Kernel development, and i'll modify that rom to make it smoother (obviously taking into account the hardware limits).
I'm very beginner into android development, and it would amaze me if this device can run at least Android 4.0.4.
The hardware of this device is:
4 inch Resistive touchscreen, 128MB RAM, Processor ARMv5 Intel PXA310 at 624MHz, 256MB Internal Storage, and an unknown graphics chip whose driver does not exist at all. That device runs Windows Mobile 6.0 Classic.
The graphic rendering, both in Windows Mobile and in Android, is all CPU-made because, even for Windows Mobile, the OpenGL libraries aren't supported.
I know it's really crazy the idea to make an eleven years old device run Android 4.x, but if it can run Android 2.3, why not 4.0?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would respect your enthusiasm but the device isn't worth it.If you truly want the development experience at fairly cheap price you can buy the goldie Nexus 5 or it's twin Note 3.They are currently 100$ devices that have tons of development for them.Currently I am working on hlte notee 3 Ubuntu touch which is a success with 7 different roms that I compile on VPS only for learning.I have also Ran Debian 9.6 natively on This piece of worthless hardware along with compiling custom graphic libraries that somehow increase the performance.
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