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Hi there. I might be upgrading my Google N1 and buying myself a Samsung Galaxy s2. However I dont really see the point in it. Besides the Obvious Hardware differences, 5MP Camera - 8mp Camera, 1GHz Processor - 1.2GHz Processor etc etc I dont see the point in buying it. Im enjoy gaming, so I guess being able to play for graphics heavy games would be something the N1 couldnt do.
Im not into rooting/flashing or anything like that so all that doesnt bother me.
I guess im basically looking for some selling points, sell me the device
Btw, im not trolling, sorry if it comes out that way.
Thanks for the help
I got my SGS2 because I renewed my contract, it's a nice phone, I even think Touchwiz is better than stock Android(though it's no match for Sense) but I wouldnt have bought it since I only bought my Desire less than one year ago.
The phone is fast, very fast and links are easier to hit but I miss my optical trackpad (I think the difference between the Desire and N1 is the optical trackpad vs trackball). I think my SLCD screen on the desire was better than the samoled+ but coming from amoled it will be a big upgrade in screen quality. Another fgood thing is that it's really light yet feels very sturdy
ok what makes it soo special
well its like an iphone
when ur using a normal android phone even with a custom rom ie cm7 u notice these small lags when scrolling
ie scrolling lag when browsing the internet and the menu etc
its super fast (1080p flash with no lag while scrolling )
responsive
amazing screen
VERY thin
super lite
physical home button
VERY sturdy ( u cant bend it + doesn't make any creaking sounds)
all of this in one phone
AKA the perfect android phone
for me those small lags irritate the hell out of me
and the SG2 is the only android phone that doesn't have these to my knowledge
there is no lag on this phone-ever.
godutch said:
I think my SLCD screen on the desire was better than the samoled+
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DoPower said:
godutch said:
I think my SLCD screen on the desire was better than the samoled+ /QUOTE]
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Yes the colors look much more natural and on my desire I almost can't see the pixels on the SGS2 I can see the subpixels
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godutch said:
DoPower said:
Yes the colors look much more natural and on my desire I almost can't see the pixels on the SGS2 I can see the subpixels
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW! You don't have eyes, You have microscopes
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qwerty warrior said:
when ur using a normal android phone even with a custom rom ie cm7 u notice these small lags when scrolling
ie scrolling lag when browsing the internet and the menu etc
for me those small lags irritate the hell out of me
and the SG2 is the only android phone that doesn't have these to my knowledge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange because my S2 lags just like any other phone.
Home screen scrolling stutter and random "reloading" of apps.
Worst browser checker boxing I have ever seen.
2-3 second lock screen lag.
4 hour battery life when browsing over wifi.
Sorry but it certainly does not seem to be the best phone out there, not that much better than my HTC Desire tbh.
You can completely balls up and brick the phone and still recover 99.9% of the time .
jje
Nomz2k3 said:
Strange because my S2 lags just like any other phone.
Home screen scrolling stutter and random "reloading" of apps.
Worst browser checker boxing I have ever seen.
2-3 second lock screen lag.
4 hour battery life when browsing over wifi.
Sorry but it certainly does not seem to be the best phone out there, not that much better than my HTC Desire tbh.
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Click to collapse
I use go launcher I have seen no lags whatsoever (except when trying to answers calls on the lock screen on some older firmwares), I do see the checker boxing in the stock browser but none whatsoever in xscope or opera. And I have yet to see laptops last for 4 hours browsing on wifi.
DoPower said:
Yes the colors look much more natural and on my desire I almost can't see the pixels on the SGS2 I can see the subpixels
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't like the colors, the issue is not the display, but the images on the screen. If you don't like the default, you can simply set the "Background effect" in the "Display" settings to "Movie" to sort of match an LCD screen.
By the looks of it, the Movie mode matches the sRGB color space (which is what JPEG images are made for), while the "Standard" mode matches the aRGB color space. A standard phone LCD screen (like that from, say, iPhone 4) doesn't even match the full sRGB color space, which makes images look washed out.
So if you want to see the display in all its splendor, you have to shoot some RAW photos, convert them to aRGB and see them on the phone's display. I can tell you that on mine they look mind boggling. Colors are similar to those from my hardware-calibrated professional display, but the black level (which changes the perception of colors) and the sharpness (due to the very small pixels) are to die for.
As for subpixels, I can't even see individual pixels...
Here is my experience with it (bottom line - I love it):
(Keep in mind that I'm coming from a 3 years old HTC Polaris.)
Remarks:
* Size: no problems; the size of the display is awesome
* Screen: absolutely gorgeous with no problems whatsoever; I have looked at a photo (taken with a DSLR and converted from RAW to the aRGB color space), side by side with an iPhone 4 - the iPhone's display is simply non-existent in terms of black level, gamut and sharpness (despite it's higher resolution)
* WiFi: fine; the network that I use gives me 650 KB/s for downloads
* TouchWiz: fine (I deleted all the predefined panels and made my own panels)
* Notifications: no led like HTC, but the NoLed application is great
* Battery: using it like the old HTC (meaning just having the 3G connection on and looking at the time a few times a day), I get 11% consumption per day (with the HTC I had about 12...14%); using it heavily, I can drain the entire battery in one day, so it depends on what you're doing with it, and you will really want to play with it (note that the drain may not be linear, so it may take less than 9 days to drain the entire battery on light use)
* GPS (without network connection and old aGPS data): 3-4 minutes to acquire the first lock (if I have half the sky in view - I'm at a window), then 20 seconds if I close and restart the GPS test application; indoors, no chance of getting a lock unless you're in a wood house or something (its performance is acceptable); the accuracy is around 30 meters (might be better with the full sky visible and more than 4 locked satellites)
* The sound through normal headphones is awesome (virtually on par with that from my notebook, with the same headphones; the maximum volume is fine for someone who isn't trying to get deaf)
* Phone call clarity is great
* Phone signal is really difficult to decrease; it stubbornly clings on 4 bars (I have to put my fingers around the bottom AND be somewhere deep inside a concrete building in order to get only 3 bars)
* The internal memory has a write speed of about 9.5 MB/s (for large files); a class 10 micro SDHC card that I bought has about 8.5 MB/s; for small files (about 150 KB each), the speed is about 140 KB/s for both memories
What I dislike (the software issues are not necessarily faults of SGS2):
* Difficult to grab from a table; the sides of the case are slippery, and the low thickness doesn't help either
* Takes about 1.5 seconds to come out from standby (from the moment I press the power button); this is annoying when I just what to check the time
* Heats up significantly around the back camera (when playing an HD movie, it actually becomes hot in that area)
* Only 16 GB of internal memory (I think 64 GB is more on my taste)
* Can't copy files bigger than 4GB on either the internal memory or on the SDHC card
* Doesn't have an included firewall (and installing one requires rooting)
* The alarm application doesn't increase the sound volume in time (like from 0% to full in, say, 20 seconds)
* The ringer volume doesn't increase the sound volume in time
* The included movie player doesn't play FLVs and DTS sound (MoboPlayer knows DTS but doesn't decode the MKVs in hardware, so they have a bad framerate, while VPlayer doesn't use 24 bit graphics even in high quality native mode - it shows either banding or a grid pattern)
6ITdtvFQqY said:
By the looks of it, the Movie mode matches the sRGB color space (which is what JPEG images are made for), while the "Standard" mode matches the aRGB color space. A standard phone LCD screen (like that from, say, iPhone 4) doesn't even match the full sRGB color space, which makes images look washed out.
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Click to collapse
You misquoted DoPower didn't say that, I did. I have already set the display to movie and still the colors are not correct
As for subpixels, I can't even see individual pixels...
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Click to collapse
I have 30/22.5 vision (ie retina) and -1.25/+1.00(<-yup weird :s) aberrations, my left eye (also my dominant one) sees the subpixels (I once had my vision tested and they ran out of cards to test, I could read them all )
godutch said:
I use go launcher I have seen no lags whatsoever (except when trying to answers calls on the lock screen on some older firmwares), I do see the checker boxing in the stock browser but none whatsoever in xscope or opera. And I have yet to see laptops last for 4 hours browsing on wifi.
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Click to collapse
Well im just on stock UK orange firmware and performance is not what I expected from the hype, like I said in my post its pretty bad.
As for wifi browsing, my 18 month old compaq mini 311c netbook manages 5+ hours easy and my AWm11x even longer.
I am however getting confused a little, some people state the browser does get checker boarding and others state it should not and i should return my unit.
youtube.com/watch?v=yYIiRf88-g0 is a video I made of the browser problem.
Hi all,
I know this article has been floating around here for some time, but this I found rather interesting:
Some have raised points along the lines of Samsung Galaxy S2 phones already having a smoother UI and indicating that they are doing something different vs. the Galaxy Nexus. When comparing individual devices though you really need to look at all of the factors. For example, the S2's screen is 480x800 vs. the Galaxy Nexus at 720x1280. If the Nexus S could already do 60fps for simple UIs on its 480x800, the CPU in the S2's is even better off.
The real important difference between these two screens is just that the Galaxy Nexus has 2.4x as many pixels that need to be drawn as the S2. This means that to achieve the same efficiency at drawing the screen, you need a CPU that can run a single core at 2.4x the speed (and rendering a UI for a single app is essentially not parallelizable, so multiple cores isn't going to save you).
This is where hardware accelerated rendering really becomes important: as the number of pixels goes up, GPUs can generally scale much better to handle them, since they are more specialized at their task. In fact this was the primary incentive for implementing hardware accelerated drawing in Android -- at 720x1280 we are well beyond the point where current ARM CPUs can provide 60fps. (And this is a reason to be careful about making comparisons between the Galaxy Nexus and other devices like the S2 -- if you are running third party apps, there is a good chance today that the app is not enabling hardware acceleration, so your comparison is doing CPU rendering on the Galaxy Nexus which means you almost certainly aren't going to get 60fps out of it, because it needs to hit 2.4x as many pixels as the S2 does.)
To be complete, there is another big advantage that the GPU gives you -- many more drawing effects become feasible. For example, if you are drawing a bitmap in software, you basically can't do anything to it except apply an offset. Just trying to scale it is going to make rendering significantly slower. On a GPU, applying transformations well beyond simple scales is basically free. This is why in the new default Holo themes in Android we have background images -- with hardware accelerated drawing, we can afford to draw (and scale) them. In fact, if the hardware path is not enabled by the app, these background images will be turned off.
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This is kinda the same as with the Prime and the T700/other high-resolution tablets, isn't it? I'm not sure, but it sounds pretty obviously since the Tegra3 GPU isn't very good (yes, it is fine but I'm not sure for those high-res screens?). However I could be completely wrong..
I agree. It's the same with a gaming computer. Just because ur monitor has 1080p doesn't mean u can play all games in that rez. U will need a much more powerful gpu. I am certain though the tegra3 can support 1080p but it won't be smooth as 720p like our device. Unless u lower the rez but how would u on an android. Furthermore how ugly games would look who aren't optimize for 1080p.
Nvidia always!
The question isn't whether there's going to be a performance hit, it's what the performance hit looks like. If it's invisible in everything but gaming, I'd bet a lot of people will go for the HD display and gamers will stick to the lower res. If it's obvious in UI performance and transitions, it makes the benefit of the HD screen a little more questionable. The new chip in the iPad3 and Samsung's new Exynos chip won't make you choose (on paper). Benchmarks are useless except for bragging rights.
I have been saying this since people were trying to compare the new acer and samsung back in Dec. The higher the resolution, the more power and resources it takes. Also you have to look at the app market right now. What app's are out that will use that 1080p display...NONE as of now. Once they (1080p tablets) are released, it will be a few months before most apps will adapt to the new higher displays.
I continue to question the need for having a 1080p 10 inch display- there has to be a limit as to high a ppi count the human eye can reasonably distinguish. Just bumping up the resolution while not working on improving the true render process (in case of games or animations) does not make any sense to me.
A retina display just for the heck of it is not a great idea, at least to me.
For what it's worth, ICS is supposed to be fully hardware accelerated, so the Tegra 3 could be enough to power the higher resolution for everything but games.
Anandtech (who I probably trust the most when it comes to hardware evaluations) seemed to suggest in an early preview that the higher resolution *may* perform ok:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5348/...-with-asus-1920-x-1200-tablet-running-ics-403
That said, there are still questions as to the benefit of such a high resolution on a 10" form factor designed to be held only 1-2' away from your face. They didn't bump up to 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors until 24" LCDs and up.
The real issue is that games on Android don't let you pick a resolution for them to run at. Almost all run at the full Res of the screen, which means slideshow on a 1080p Prime.
avinash60 said:
I continue to question the need for having a 1080p 10 inch display- there has to be a limit as to high a ppi count the human eye can reasonably distinguish. Just bumping up the resolution while not working on improving the true render process (in case of games or animations) does not make any sense to me.
A retina display just for the heck of it is not a great idea, at least to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, there is just no point..... there is more important things to improve than pixel count....
Thanks, at least I am not alone on this idea. It seems like when the news came that the iPad 3 is going to have a retina desiplay all the manufacturers didn't care anymore and just were thinking "We also need that!". I am comparision the text from thread with my HTC Sensation which should have a better DPI:
Transformer Prime: 149
The new Prime: 218
HTC Sensation: 260
and from NORMAL viewing distance both look great. However, when i come closer the pixels on the Transformer Prime are a little visible where the Sensation stays sharp. However the phone has a better DPI then the new res. panel so I'm not sure how that is.
I'm sure it will look some better, but I am not sure if it is worth the wait (again) and also the possibilty of the new Prime itself can't keep up with its own resolution..
Oh, again not trying to defend the Prime here.. I have to return it anyway because of backlight bleeding and am not sure if I want a new one or my money back, however if I see this result I think the resolution is just pure marketing.. I mean who is going to sit with its prime 5 cm from their heads.. lol.
http://androidandme.com/2012/01/news/hands-on-with-the-acer-iconia-tab-a510-and-zte-7-tablets/
Watch the video on Acer Iconia a510 (unannounced tablet). 1080p that comes with this tablet... does look a bit sluggish.
Just to add my galaxy nexus is 316 dpi..... unless your 2in from the screen...there really isn't much difference.
Also, I love how laptop and desktop DPI is half what most phone/tabs are and people are having a fit......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density#ASUS
Seems to run pretty good since it is still a pre-production model, however not as smooth as the Prime with ICS yes..
Danny80y said:
Just to add my galaxy nexus is 316 dpi..... unless your 2in from the screen...there really isn't much difference.
Also, I love how laptop and desktop DPI is half what most phone/tabs are and people are having a fit......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density#ASUS
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Yeah, exactly what I mean.. you can see it if your very close to the screen, but why would you do that, lol.
Oh, btw.. for the iPad 1&2 it still is 132, which is much lower then our Transformers (149,5), never heard real complaints about that.
>What app's are out that will use that 1080p display...NONE as of now
eBooks & PDFs. Sharper texts. More texts. One can conceivably view 2 pages side-by-side (16:10 / 2 = 8:10, or close to the 8.5:11 printed page).
With display mirroring, you get 1:1 pixel ratio when plugged into a HDTV via HDMI. This makes above use-case (high-density text consumption) much more feasible. Ditto for remote access.
Gaming perf will take a hit. Then again, gaming isn't exactly an Android forte right now, or for mobiles in general. The bulk of games are casual stuff, geared for handset resolution.
One can argue that hardcore Android gaming will prosper over time, and FPS perf will matter more. There are problems with this line of thought. First, is simply the assumption that Android will prosper on tablets, which given current sales is hardly a forgone conclusion. Second, are the fast advances in hardware and their correspondingly short lifespan. GPU-wise, the Teg3 isn't the fastest even now. By the time we get to see enough hardcore games, we'd be on Teg 5 or 6, or their equivalent. Teg3 will be old news.
But sure, if shooters and frame count are your thing, then 720p sounds like a plan, at least for the Teg3.
>I continue to question the need for having a 1080p 10 inch display
Some don't see the need for GPS in tabs either. Some don't use the cams. Different people have different uses. You shouldn't generalize your use to be everyone else's.
Rest assured that when it comes to marketing, toys with lo-res display will be viewed as inferior. Bigger is better. It's the same thing with quadcore vs dualcore vs single-core. Do you actually need a quadcore?
>there has to be a limit as to high a ppi count the human eye can reasonably distinguish
This argument has been bouncing around ever since Apple's Retina Display. Per this PPI calculator, 1920x1200 is 224ppi on a 10.1". Reportedly, people can discern 300ppi at 12" distance, given 20/20 vision. The real test is simpler and much less theoretical: walk into a store and compare the TF201 and TF700 side-by-side, and see if you can discern the difference.
>Anandtech (who I probably trust the most when it comes to hardware evaluations) seemed to suggest in an early preview that the higher resolution *may* perform ok:
Anandtech is good for chip-level analysis. For (mobile) system hardware and use-case analysis, he's just as green as many other tech blogs. Note the gaffs on the Prime testing wrt GPS and BT/wifi coexistence. I do see signs of improvement, however. They came out with a new Mobile Benchmark suite, whatever that means.
>The real issue is that games on Android don't let you pick a resolution for them to run at.
The real issue is that Android is still a nascent OS for tablets. HC was a beta which never took off. ICS was just released. The bulk of Android apps & games are still for handsets.
I have been concerned about this as well. Tegra 3's GPU is fine enough for a 1200x800 tablet, but it's going to be stretched at 1080p (this is nearly the resolution that my desktop runs at!).
I'd love a higher-resolution display, but it's a luxury (well, a tablet itself kinda is already, but even more so). It's not as if 1280x800 is cramped and blocky. I'm happy to wait a bit longer for 1080p tablets to mature and come down in price.
(I'd rather have 2GB RAM, actually.)
Well, perhaps this new release will coincide with a bump in the specs of Tegra 3. By the time the new tablet comes out, I would assume that's been almost half a year.... That's usually about the time span that nvidia would come out with a refresh of a chip design (well, they do this with their desktop GPUs, so not a great comparison, but it's possible?). So in the end perhaps the question of performance will be moot because there will be a faster Tegra 3 and more RAM in the new higher resolution tablets.
Just a thought.
Don't underestimate.
Let's wait a review or test.
Probably the Tegra 3 is more than capable of handling this kind of resolution in terms of playing HD movie, high profile compression, etc.
I saw several tests on current prime, and it has no problem with HD videos.
My only concern is battery life ... that's all.
I expect the 1920x1200 will result worse battery life, unless ASUS pump up the battery capacity or any other improvement.
JoeyLe said:
Hi all,
I know this article has been floating around here for some time, but this I found rather interesting:
This is kinda the same as with the Prime and the T700/other high-resolution tablets, isn't it? I'm not sure, but it sounds pretty obviously since the Tegra3 GPU isn't very good (yes, it is fine but I'm not sure for those high-res screens?). However I could be completely wrong..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gogol said:
Don't underestimate.
Let's wait a review or test.
Probably the Tegra 3 is more than capable of handling this kind of resolution in terms of playing HD movie, high profile compression, etc.
I saw several tests on current prime, and it has no problem with HD videos.
My only concern is battery life ... that's all.
I expect the 1920x1200 will result worse battery life, unless ASUS pump up the battery capacity or any other improvement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Asus has already stated that battery life will be pretty much the same as the current Prime...So that should equal shorter battery life.I'll stick with my Prime for now.No Need in buying another tablet right now IMO.I'm waiting to see what Samsung brings to the table.
hyunsyng said:
Well, perhaps this new release will coincide with a bump in the specs of Tegra 3. By the time the new tablet comes out, I would assume that's been almost half a year.... That's usually about the time span that nvidia would come out with a refresh of a chip design (well, they do this with their desktop GPUs, so not a great comparison, but it's possible?). So in the end perhaps the question of performance will be moot because there will be a faster Tegra 3 and more RAM in the new higher resolution tablets.
Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they can bump the specs within the generation of a chip. The only thing that can happen till then is that Asus finds an economical way to add 2GB memory to the device, Nvidia improves the production capabilities of Tegra 3 and we get a better yield of the chips. The spec increase can only happen from one generation to the next.
I think the performance will be fine. Even the battery life.
Most of the battery usage screen-wise is from the backlight, which will be the same.
Also, not much more power may be used necessarily either, especially if it doesn't end up taxing the Tegra 3 as much as we think it will. As far as we know, our 1200x800 displays may not even be taxing the Tegra 3 that much. If anything, the article shows that the Tegra 3 may be more qualified to handle that high a resolution with little to no performance degradation. There are demos on youtube of a tegra 3 device playing 1440p movies just fine, all while driving a second screen at the same time.
Of course I too don't feel the need for something that high of a resolution on a 10 inch screen, but I'll never really know until I see one in person.
The Nexus One and Nexus S both had the same resolution (800 x 480) which makes sense for a reference device as having a stable target for UI / display is beneficial to developers. It allows them to acclimate to a certain resolution to produce the best looking apps available. They seem to have ditched tradition (and sensibility) by going from 1280 x 720 to 768 in a year, different resolution, different aspect ratio.
Personally I find that there isn't enough vertical resolution what with the navbar and status bar so it all seems kind of silly.
Perhaps Google is going to do something new with the increased lateral resolution?
I am not a developer so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the android SDK have some sort of implementation that makes apps compatible with a lot of screen sizes and resolution? So I don't think changing the resolution will matter so much.
Hey guys this is a detailed list, the Xperia Z was just announced so going of GSMarena specs, if there are any errors plz correct the list, thanks!
Nexus 10
Higher resolution
Higher PPI
Wi-Fi Direct?
Direct updates
Stock Android
More Ergonomic? (rubber rounded back)
Xperia z tab
LTE/4G
Lighter
Thinner
Premium Design
Dust proof
Water proof
S-Force surround sound
microSD
Wi-Fi hotpot
Infrared port
Blutooth 4.0
8mp camera
LED flash
2.2 front camera
cyprusx said:
Hey guys this is a detailed list, the Xperia Z was just announced so going of GSMarena specs, if there are any errors plz correct the list, thanks!
Nexus 10
Higher resolution
Higher PPI
Wi-Fi Direct?
Direct updates
Stock Android
More Ergonomic? (rubber rounded back)
Xperia z tab
LTE/4G
Lighter
Thinner
Premium Design
Dust proof
Water proof
S-Force surround sound
microSD
Wi-Fi hotpot
Infrared port
Blutooth 4.0
8mp camera
LED flash
2.2 front camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xperia Z for me please!
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
Will have better colors on the Z tablet
I don't think the price will be the same :fingers-crossed: and it's not gonna get updated that fast
cyprusx said:
Hey guys this is a detailed list, the Xperia Z was just announced so going of GSMarena specs, if there are any errors plz correct the list, thanks!
Nexus 10
Higher resolution
Higher PPI
Wi-Fi Direct?
Direct updates
Stock Android
More Ergonomic? (rubber rounded back)
Xperia z tab
LTE/4G
Lighter
Thinner
Premium Design
Dust proof
Water proof
S-Force surround sound
microSD
Wi-Fi hotpot
Infrared port
Blutooth 4.0
8mp camera
LED flash
2.2 front camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N10 has LED flash as well, and 4.0 bluetooth.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
The resolution on the XZ is better than the N10 because it's more practical. At 10+ inches away you won't see the difference in PPI between the two displays. And the lower resolution (but still FHD) display will use less CPU/GPU power and battery. Speaking of battery, 6,000 mAh is pretty small for a 10.1" tablet with a S4 Pro CPU and FHD display. That could be the XZ's Achilles Heal. The rest of the specs are indeed impressive.
Stock Android and stock Nexus are so good and at such a low price that they will keep me happy whilst I receive the timely Android updates
Naturally, a newer tablet will be better than an older tablet at least hardware wise or else it wouldn't sell.
That said, the Xperia Tablet Z will probably do better than the Nexus 10 in probably almost all aspects except development, text clarity, and possibly line-out (headphone) sound quality. Image clarity and such is much better suited for a 1080p screen unless there is a sudden surge and revolution of 1440p+ displays in this coming year.
ady_seray said:
N10 has LED flash as well, and 4.0 bluetooth.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to numerous sources and GSMarena the nexus 10 has 3.0
If I need 4G/LTE, I'll just tether it to my Verizon phone I already have.
Otherwise, I see nothing in that list which would cause me to jump ship or even give a second thought about.
More than happy with the design and engineering on the N10.
404 ERROR said:
Naturally, a newer tablet will be better than an older tablet at least hardware wise or else it wouldn't sell.
That said, the Xperia Tablet Z will probably do better than the Nexus 10 in probably almost all aspects except development, text clarity, and possibly line-out (headphone) sound quality. Image clarity and such is much better suited for a 1080p screen unless there is a sudden surge and revolution of 1440p+ displays in this coming year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a similar debate about the value of PPI going on in the DNA forums. It matters less than you think. This is from that discussion...
BarryH_GEG said:
The biggest discussion point for newer devices like the N10 and now the DNA/Butterfly are their awesome displays. The thing people lose sight of (no pun intended) is that the human eye is only capable of processing and resolving images at a certain level. Any detail beyond that level is literally wasted. The 20/20 human eye has a maximum visual acuity of 1 arcminute. That is, two points must subtend an angle greater than 1 arcminute in order for a 20/20 eye to resolve the two points. What this means for displays is that pixels must have an angular subtense of 1 arcminute or greater in order for your eye to resolve the detail in the content. Detail below 1 arcminute isn't perceived by the human eye any differently whether a display has 267 PPI or 441 PPI. This is the reason Apple landed on the resolution they did hence the name "retina display." For example, the N2 has an arcminute subtense of 1.073 arcminutes which is nearly perfect and it has a PPI of 267. The DNA has an acrminute subtense of .66 and PPI of 441 which is a waste because anything below "1" can't be resolved by the human eye.
So super high definition displays are more a marketing gimmick, draw more CPU power, and drain the battery faster with the end result being your eyes won't notice any difference. I don't know what the exact numbers are for the Note and N10 but at 147 PPI the Note's above 1 arcminute and at 299 PPI the N10's below it. So you'll notice a difference on text and CGI (but not images and video) but it's not as pronounced as some people here have said unless they have super-human vision. And with the new fixation on resolution things like brightness, contrast, and color accuracy get swept under the rug because all people are focusing on is a PPI count rather than the actual quality of the display. In those areas the Note’s display outperforms the N10’s. And the 1080P display on the DNA isn’t as good in those areas as the 720P display on the One X it's supposedly better than. Remember that when you're salivating over a 441 PPI 1080P smartphone that’s going to be hyped to death this year.
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orangechoochoo said:
I bet if the Note2 had a 1080 screen owners would brag about it instead of saying that you can't tell the difference. If we cannot discern the difference between 720 and 1080 way is the S4 and other phones coming out with 1080 since it makes no difference?
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BarryH_GEG said:
You realize that with the human eye being the lowest common denominator the selection of PPI is being done ass backwards? Deciding on the optimum PPI for any given device should be an arithmatec equation; not manufacturers arbitrarily pulling numbers our of thier butts to out-feature each other. The above posts that talk about what the human eye can process are irrefutable fact. With an arcminute of "1" ideal for the human eye to process detail, the manufacturers should pick the lowest PPI that acheives "1" arcminute at 10-12" away which is the typical distance a smartphone is viewed. Why the lowest? Because the higher the PPI the bigger the drain on the battery, GPU, and CPU. And why reduce the performance of a device when the end result is the human eye can't process the additional detail being provided anyway? In addition, to achieve higher PPI, displays are suffering in brightness, contrast, and color reproduction. But nobody cares because they get to tell their friends "look, I've got a 1080P display!" Based on the numbers, outside of PPI, the One X has a better display than the DNA. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened between the SGS3's 720P display and the SGS4's 1080P display (unless SAMOLED scales differently). In the end none of this matters because whether it makes sense or not we're all going to end up with 1080P displays one way or the other because that's where manufacturer's marketing is taking us.
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And this is a good article explaining why pics and videos won't seem any sharper on a 720P, 1080P, or the N10's unique resolution display. And everything gets upscaled on the N10 which doesn't help with detail and image quality.
For most people, though, it won't matter. Photos are inherently fuzzy, so it won’t matter whether they’re viewed on a 1920×1080 or 1280×720 smartphone display; you’ll still see their imperfections. "Even the tiniest image detail in a photograph is always spread over more than one pixel," Dr. Soneira explained in a follow-up e-mail. "The image detail is never perfectly aligned with the pixel structure of the display." Videos are even worse: not only are they fuzzy like photographs, but the pictures are constantly moving. Even if the images were sharp, the human brain couldn’t zero in on content that’s appearing for only a fraction of a second on such a small display. "For ordinary viewing of videos, 1920×1080 is really not going to make a visual difference," adds Dr. Soneira.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/1080p-on-a-smartphone-screencan-it-possibly-matter/
I skimmed through your post and I apologize beforehand if I'm missing some nuances in your post, but I think you misread my post completely. The only thing that can really make use of a 1440p screen at this moment is text which is why I mentioned "text clarity." It is also why I said, if there is a sudden surge of 1440p displays, the N10's high resolution will be better than 1080p. This is simply because 1080p displays will be considered old tech and designers and such will move on to support 1440p displays. The chances of 1440p being adopted to be the standard this year is probably 0%.
I never said it mattered. In fact I always thought PPI is a gimmick and will always be a gimmick beyond 220ish.
Also, just to put it out there, I maintain a theme to up-res the icons on the N10 so those icons don't get upscaled; I'm pretty sure I know what drawbacks there are with having such a high resolution screen.
Another thing - you talk about image quality, but you quote someone talking about photos. Things that are drawn on a computer will be clearer than a photo by a long shot. Those types of images can take advantage of such a high resolution screen. Photography on the other hand really doesn't matter what resolution you view it on for the reason you quoted.
404 ERROR said:
The only thing that can really make use of a 1440p screen at this moment is text.
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I just threw that info out there because I thought people would find it interesting; it wasn't directed at you per se. And at 10" away text won't look any better on the N10 than it would on the XZ. And that has nothing to do with the display's themselves, it's all about why the human eye can discern. As an example, at that distance, text looks no worse on the N2's 720P display than it does on the DNA's 1080P display based solely on the N2's ability to achieve a subtense of 1 arcmiture at 267PPI. Only if the N10's display is closer to 1 arcminute (below it doesn't matter) than the NZ's would you notice a difference. Now if you hold it 5" away or look at it under a microscope you'll see a difference.
BarryH_GEG said:
I just threw that info out there because I thought people would find it interesting; it wasn't directed at you per se. And at 10" away text won't look any better on the N10 than it would on the XZ. And that has nothing to do with the display's themselves, it's all about why the human eye can discern. As an example, at that distance, text looks no worse on the N2's 720P display than it does on the DNA's 1080P display based solely on the N2's ability to achieve a subtense of 1 arcmiture at 267PPI. Only if the N10's display is closer to 1 arcminute (below it doesn't matter) than the NZ's would you notice a difference. Now if you hold it 5" away or look at it under a microscope you'll see a difference.
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You're right in that if you hold it 10" away you won't see a difference. Unfortunately not all people do and there will always be people who can discern that difference.
I am also considering the Xperia Z tablet against the Nexus 10, here's a better comparison (taken from GSMArena).
Nexus 10
General 2G Network N/A
SIM No
Body Dimensions 263.9 x 177.6 x 8.9 mm (10.39 x 6.99 x 0.35 in)
Weight 603 g (1.33 lb)
Display Type Super PLS TFT capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size 2560 x 1600 pixels, 10.1 inches (~299 ppi pixel density)
Multitouch Yes
Protection Corning Gorilla Glass 2
Sound Alert types N/A
Loudspeaker Yes, with stereo speakers
3.5mm jack Yes
Memory Card slot No
Internal 16/32 GB, 2 GB RAM
Data GPRS No
EDGE No
WLAN Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n, Wi-Fi Direct, DLNA
Bluetooth Yes, v3.0 with A2DP
NFC Yes, dual side
USB Yes, microUSB v2.0
Camera Primary 5 MP, 2592х1936 pixels, autofocus, LED flash, check quality
Features Geo-tagging, touch focus, face detection
Video Yes, [email protected], check quality
Secondary Yes, 1.9 MP
Features OS Android OS, v4.2 (Jelly Bean), upgradable to v4.2.1 (Jelly Bean)
Chipset Exynos 5250
CPU Dual-core 1.7 GHz Cortex-A15
GPU Mali-T604
Sensors Accelerometer, gyro, proximity, compass, barometer
Messaging Email, Push Email, IM, RSS
Browser HTML5
Radio No
GPS Yes, with GLONASS
Java No
Colors Black
- SNS integration
- HDMI port
- MP4/H.264/DivX/WMV player
- MP3/WAV/eAAC+/WMA/Flac player
- Organizer
- Image/video editor
- Document viewer
- Google Search, Maps, Gmail,
YouTube, Calendar, Google Talk, Picasa
- Voice memo
- Predictive text input (Swype)
Battery Non-removable Li-Po 9000 mAh battery
Stand-by Up to 500 h
Talk time Up to 9 h (multimedia)
Misc SAR US 1.38 W/kg (body)
SAR EU 0.21 W/kg (body)
Price group [About 310 EUR]
Tests Display Contrast ratio: 878 (nominal)
Loudspeaker Voice 68dB / Noise 66dB / Ring 67dB
Audio quality Noise -82.3dB / Crosstalk -81.4dB
Camera Photo / Video
Xperia Z Tablet
General 2G Network
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 2100 / 800
4G Network LTE 1800 / 1500 / 2100
SIM Micro-SIM
Announced 2013, January
Status Coming soon. Exp. release 2013, Q1
Body Dimensions 266 x 172 x 6.9 mm (10.47 x 6.77 x 0.27 in)
Weight 495 g (1.09 lb)
- IP57 certified - dust and water proof
Display Type LED-backlit LCD, capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size 1200 x 1920 pixels, 10.1 inches (~224 ppi pixel density)
Multitouch Yes
- Sony Mobile BRAVIA Engine 2
Sound Alert types N\A
Loudspeaker Yes, with stereo speakers
3.5mm jack Yes
- 3D surround sound enhancement
Memory Card slot microSD, up to 64 GB
Internal 32 GB storage, 2 GB RAM
Data GPRS No
EDGE No
Speed HSDPA, 14.4 Mbps; HSUPA, 5.76 Mbps; LTE, Cat3, 37.5 Mbps UL, 100 Mbps DL
WLAN Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n, dual-band, DLNA, Wi-Fi hotspot
Bluetooth Yes, v4.0 with A2DP
NFC Yes
USB Yes, v2.0
Camera Primary 8 MP, 3264x2448 pixels, autofocus
Features Geo-tagging, touch focus, face detection
Video Yes, [email protected]
Secondary Yes, 2.2 MP, [email protected]
Features OS Android OS, v4.1.2 (Jelly Bean), planned upgrade to v4.2 (Jelly Bean)
Chipset Qualcomm Snapdragon APQ8064
CPU Quad-core 1.5 GHz Krait
GPU Adreno 320
Sensors Accelerometer, gyro, compass
Messaging Email, Push Mail, IM, RSS
Browser HTML
Radio No
GPS Yes
Java Yes, via Java MIDP emulator
Colors Black, White
- SNS integration
- MP4/H.264/H.263 player
- MP3/WAV/eAAC+ player
- Organizer
- Document viewer
- Photo viewer/editor
- Voice memo
- Predictive text input
Battery Non-removable Li-Po 6000 mAh battery
If it was $399.99 and battery didn't suck I would probably get it. It also depends on whether or not I sell my Nexus 4 for a Xperia Z. My tablet will match my phone. Lol
Also depends on which is available in Canada first. More nexus 10 shipments or the the Xperia Z tablet in Canada
I also wish that they stuck with the 9.4 inch screen of their older models.
Tablet Z will be at least 100$ more so yeah.
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299ppi>224ppi. I can see a big difference between 299 and 224 ppi. I prefer the nexus 10. I want 4k on 10".
lKBZl said:
and it's not gonna get updated that fast
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Sony is one of the most AOSP friendly manufactures out there so I doubt it. I am a Nexus guy for life but Sony builds some quality stuff and are good with updates. As fast as Nexus no, but they won't Samsung it and sit on an update for a year and update it at the same time Google releases that versions replacement.
rookiegenius said:
Tablet Z will be at least 100$ more so yeah.
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The upper-bound threshold's been set by the Note 10.1 (32GB $549), N10 (32GB $499), and TF700 (32GB $499). So with 32GB of storage the Xperia Z won't be more than $499 (the Note gets away with more because of S Pen). If Sony's smart they'll price it at $449 to gain some traction in the market. Asus only sold 250K 10.1" tablets a month in Q3 and the TF300 had a MSRP of $349. High-end Android tablets just don't sell well. The Note 10.1 was selling a million a month in Q3 so that makes it an exception. We'll see if that run rate continued in to Q4 when analysts disect Samsung's earnings. Also keep in mind that the specs shown are for the Japanese market Xperia Z. The global and U.S versions could be different. And until something's confirmed at MWC next month we don't even know for sure if there will be global and U.S. versions.
I thought this was very interesting, somewhat common sense to some of us geeks/nerds/smarties out there, and worth a share.
Origin: http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/16554/is-the-samsung-galaxy-s4-really-worth-it/
Despite the amazing features in recent mobile phones that include, high speed quad core processors, large screen sizes, high-fidelity Graphic Processing Units (GPUs) and innovative designs, the mobile phones manufacturers are desperately trying to surpass each other.
A number of marketing tactics are being used to get us all excited, and persuade us to upgrade our phones.
Due to the tremendous advancements in hardware and software technology and the challenges posed by a very competitive market, the smart phone manufacturers are left only with the screen resolution to boast about and as an immediate eye-catching feature for a potential upgrade.
Samsung is already making a big deal about the full High Definition (HD) resolution of its Galaxy S4 introduced this month. Although the S4 is not the first phone to be equipped with an HD resolution, the terrific success of the S2 and S3 makes it an appealing get-as-soon-as-possible feature for Galaxy lovers.
If you are charmed by the HD resolution and intend on throwing extra money to upgrade your phone to S4, let us first analyse if a full HD smart phone screen is really worth draining your wallet.
Resolution is the prime determinant of a screen’s clarity. HD resolution refers to a High Definition screen having either 1280 x 720 pixels (720p) or 1920 x 1080 pixels (1080p/full-HD) spread along the width and height of the smart phone’s screen.
The pixel is the elementary area of illumination on the screen. The image displayed is composed of pixels. Therefore, higher the number of pixels, the sharper and crisper an image appears on the screen.
For an immediate comparison, you can check the resolution of your old smart phone (For example a Nokia 6600, 176 x 208 pixels) and that of a recent smart phone (like the Samsung Galaxy S3, 720 x 1280 pixels). You will immediately notice that the high resolution produces a much clearer and sharper image.
Nevertheless, resolution is not the only factor responsible for a sharper screen. Keeping the resolution the same and increasing the screen’s size separates the pixels, thus resulting in lost sharpness.
What really matters for determining a screen’s quality is the number of pixels packed in a given area. The term Pixel Per Inch (PPI) represents how many pixels there are in one inch of a screen’s area; the larger the number, the better the screen’s quality.
As an example, Nokia 6600 launched in 2003 has a PPI density of 130, whereas, Apple’s iPhone 4, sensationalised and marketed by the brand name Retina Display, has a PPI of 330. This produces a much sharper and vibrant image on the screen and makes other older phones look lacklustre.
Increasing the resolution does increase the PPI, provided that the screen size is not increased significantly. Two smart phones having the same screen sizes but different resolutions will have different figures for PPI.
Does it mean increasing the PPI indefinitely will produce even sharper images on the screen? The answer is no.
Our eyes can determine the quality of the contents on a screen if the pixels are distinguishable at the normal viewing distance. The reason why Apple called their iPhone 4 screen ‘Retina Display’ was that the 326 PPI pixel density was so high that individual pixels were indistinguishable to the human eye at the normal viewing distance. However, Retina Display is no longer an industry-leading figure.
HTC was one of the companies to develop a display beating that of the iPhone 4 with HTC Rezound (342 PPI). Nevertheless, if you compare the screens of Iphone 4 and HTC Rezound, I can bet you won’t be able to tell the difference.
The reason is that the human eye cannot distinguish the difference in PPI when the figure reaches a saturation point of about 300 (slightly exaggerated, otherwise some studies suggest a threshold of 250 PPI). Therefore, having a PPI of more than 300 will not make any difference to normal human eye unless you use a magnifying glass or have the screen pressed up against your eyeballs to see the subtle difference (of course you don’t want to do that).
Even for people with 20/20 vision, a full HD resolution would be a waste because most people’s eye can’t resolve sharpness above 250 PPI. The same goes for observing the photos quality. The pixel details in a photograph is always spread over more than one pixel and never perfectly aligned with the pixel structure of the display. So it will not matter whether you view the photographs on a 1080p or 720p display; they will appear the same. If you come across a smart phone having a PPI above 350, safely take it as a marketing stunt. It is not going to make the smart phone’s screen any sharper.
Consequently, a full HD (1080p) resolution is no better looking than 720p resolution in smart phones. A full HD resolution is only better for tablets, laptop screens, or monitors where the human eyes can resolve such a high resolution. The smart phones having 720p resolutions and sizes ranging from 4.3 to 4.7 inches have PPIs within the range 312 to 341. This PPI range is more than enough. Therefore, Samsung’s claim to give a sensational screen experience is pretty pompous.
Whereas, a full HD resolution necessitates using larger screen size (at least 5 inches) which is pretty annoying for small-sized phones lovers.
Another issue is the increased power consumption. The extra features in electronic devices don’t come for free. The price usually has to be paid in terms of high power consumption. A full HD display makes more demand from the processor and the GPU, which in turn needs more power to help it cope.
Although, the S4 has much improved battery (2600 mAh) as compared to the S3 (2100 mAh), it is still not sure if we can get improved battery life as well. We must not forget that the Apple iPad 4′s screen has a higher than 1080p resolution (2048 x 1536, but a PPI of 264), and a battery rated as 11666 mAh, while the iPad2 has a less than 720p resolution (1024 x 768, 132 PPI). Yet both provide the same 10-hours of use before needing a recharge.
The only advantage of a full HD screen in smart phone is that it gives more space for user interface elements such as button and text. For example, a webpage can fit to the screen, but the size of the contents decreases due to high resolution. In most of the cases, the viewer has to zoom in the contents to view them easily.
Due to these reasons, I still prefer to stick to my Xperia S with 720p resolution and a PPI of 341.
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Interesting read. Though I can definitely tell there is a difference when comparing my lte and the HTC one side by side. That being said when they aren't side by side I can't tell.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
I would wager that you can only 'tell' because you read the spec .
My .02¢
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scottspa74 said:
I would wager that you can only 'tell' because you read the spec .
My .02¢
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I can see pixelation on my Evo's screen if I look closely. I can't see the same pixelation on the DNA's screen. There's a real difference, although you have to be a serious gadget nerd (like me) to care.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
scottspa74 said:
I would wager that you can only 'tell' because you read the spec .
My .02¢
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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That's exactly my thinking.
maxpower7 said:
I can see pixelation on my Evo's screen if I look closely. I can't see the same pixelation on the DNA's screen. There's a real difference, although you have to be a serious gadget nerd (like me) to care.
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I honestly cannot tell the difference at all. Although I saw a slight difference between my 3D and this EVO LTE. Maybe because I knew the specs though =p. I'm a big fan of sleeping at night. Lol.
... Sent from my 'Maybe the LTEvo wasn't such a bad idea afterall,' using the XDA Developers app.