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I am a long-time Linux user, and have noticed there's some support for getting vanilla Linux onto Tegra prototyping hardware. Nvidia has some walkthroughs, there's an ARM based Arch district, which I think would be a good starting point. Does anyone have any suggestions on where I should start?
I'd like to see KDE or Meego as a GUI, with dalvik running on the side. I think it'd be a wonderfully flexible tool at that point!
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This needs to be moved to Q&A or maybe General but certainly not DEVELOPER.
It should be in development
sent from cm7 atrix 1.3ghz
the question is what exactly you want to achieve, is it only to have that linux distro on it or to have it next to android like webtop is now? as much as i saw nvidia has all the tutorials and support for ubuntu, which i dont really like so i was playing around with gentoo for it, but it is quite a nightmare to get it to run like a webtop, i think it should be way more simple getting it to run next to cm7, however gentoo takes a lot of time to compile and set up (but is faster and more space conservative than), so probably Arch is better. as for running only linux you would have to create your own kernel and ramdisk for it probably and than go on from there, since we cant change the bootloader to just load linux directly. just as a side note this should probably be in fact in the Q&A section since there is no real development made here, just discussing options.
What about running Ubuntu netbook edition? I run Ubuntu all the time, it's very stable and fast, but for this application it needs to be small and lightweight, so for that case we could go to the netbook edition. Just a thought.
I think Arch would be easiest, as it uses vanilla sources (Ubuntu heavily patches their packages) and has the most transparent configuration stuffs.
I'm rather familiar with Linux, I'm just less familiar with phone hacking and partitions.
I'd really like to see Linux running in place of android, with the dalvik machine there to be able to run android apps. Android is VERY messy.
I'm thinking the telephony end of things will be difficult, but maybe not impossible. I will be working on this, and will be pursuing it, so I think "development" is where it belongs.
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Hi killer_siller,
I know this isn't for the atrix, but it could be a good beginning for you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10181908
Swyped from "Mount" Olympus
nitrox1 said:
Hi killer_siller,
I know this isn't for the atrix, but it could be a good beginning for you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10181908
Swyped from "Mount" Olympus
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I've played with that on a few phones, and it's not as good as the experience you get from Native Linux - ala the HD2.
Nvidia has quite a lot of resources available for their Tegra stuffs:
http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/category/zone/mobile-development
Here's ArchLinuxARM; they're actively developing Tegra stuffs:
http://archlinuxarm.org/
Here's a Meego dev who got meego working on Tegra2 hardware:
http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/TEGRA2
I think it's a bit dated, though
I think Meego would be the easiest route to functioning native linux on the Atrix, as it's already made for handsets, and they're already working to get android apps to run in it natively.
This may seem like a circuitous route, but you couldn't imagine how powerful this hardware could be when you peel away the android mess.
you might want to check this thread out, unfortunately the package he attached is corrupt: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1180800 u think with cm7 it should be substantially easier to get the xserver to run properly. yes meego would be best in fact but everyone is dropping support for it so ...
Hi guys, I know it has been asked so many times already but I just saw the review of the Windows RT on a reference Qualcomm 1.5GHz device, http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3064839/qualcomm-winrt-snapdragon-s4-reference-tablet and it got my excited.
yes there's a discussion going on about it
I've noticed a trend that all these tablets/slates that I've seen so far have 2gb of RAM; do you guys think it would even be possible for it to run on 1gb? I suppose the question would be hard to answer this early on?
DarkFlame1 said:
I've noticed a trend that all these tablets/slates that I've seen so far have 2gb of RAM; do you guys think it would even be possible for it to run on 1gb? I suppose the question would be hard to answer this early on?
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jesus Id hope so, otherwise it is the least efficient os yet
DarkFlame1 said:
I've noticed a trend that all these tablets/slates that I've seen so far have 2gb of RAM; do you guys think it would even be possible for it to run on 1gb? I suppose the question would be hard to answer this early on?
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Windows 7 can run on 1gb of ram, albeit very slowly. I would think windows 8 could as well.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
I run the x86 beta in Virtualbox with only 1GB of RAM and it idles at about 400MB of usage. The Touchpad is hardware capable of running Windows RT, but the issue will be drivers and the fact that Windows RT is not going to be sold so it may be pretty hard to port it over and get it booting. There are also piracy issues as Windows RT is not free but also cannot be bought.
spunker88 said:
I run the x86 beta in Virtualbox with only 1GB of RAM and it idles at about 400MB of usage. The Touchpad is hardware capable of running Windows RT, but the issue will be drivers and the fact that Windows RT is not going to be sold so it may be pretty hard to port it over and get it booting. There are also piracy issues as Windows RT is not free but also cannot be bought.
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I think this point is really what's going to break compatibility for "CAN I RUN WINDOWS RT ON DEVICE X!?" - with android we have access to the original sources and with most devices a fair amount of access to enough of the device drivers to get android version X running successfully on random arm or x86 device y. this lack of access is what's going to severely limit availability of windows rt devices on devices that didn't ship with windows rt.
That having been said, there may still be a ray of hope for running android as a secondary OS on devices that DO ship with Windows RT - like jailbreaking an iOS device, it should be a perhaps not entirely simple process (and only on extremely popular or susceptible devices) to break the crypto and protocols on the bootloader, map the partition scheme, and get a linux kernel booted on it and thus, partition or create a disk file containing the android OS such as the open iboot project on iphone http://www.idroidproject.org/wiki/OpeniBoot
So I came across and article a while back on another site that I frequent for tech related articles, I think it was How To Geek or some site like that, but I found an article about a full blown Android OS for PCs and how to install it.
I was curious - I mean I'm sure most of you here have already heard of this a long time ago, read about it, looked at it from all angles possible and even probably tried it - and with that, I was wondering for those of you who have tried this, how did it run? Was it good or just a slabbed together poor attempt at porting Android to a PC?
For me, Windows 7 is better for pc
Why would you want Android on a pc?I mean,ok,it's a good operating system,but computers already have so many Linux distributions which are not only much more optimized,but have been around for much longer than Android,so they are better in every way.
SunnyChrono6 said:
Why would you want Android on a pc?I mean,ok,it's a good operating system,but computers already have so many Linux distributions which are not only much more optimized,but have been around for much longer than Android,so they are better in every way.
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That's exactly right, I understand that as well, the thing is I Don't want it on my pc I have Ubuntu 12.04LTS. I was just curious if people had actually ran it.
Sent from my LiquidSmooth ICS 1.5 Thunderbolt
Your talking about Android x86. I don't see Android as a practical desktop OS, but I do run it inside of Virtualbox. Up until recently it had incompatibility with many apps since they weren't made to run on x86. But the ICS Android x86 contains source from Intel's Dalvik JIT allowing it to run many more apps. It runs faster than Google's SDK emulator since the processor doesn't have to be emulated only virtualized.
The android os for pc is still in premature stage. It will be awhile before its very stable. Google is i haven't the works to putting their own laptops on the market, but it wont be for probably a year before there is any good results showing for it.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
I heard that Nexus 9 will be the 1st 64-bit tablet. What does that mean considering that it's a mobile device?
Is it just marketing or will it actually make some difference in the performance?
rado932 said:
I heard that Nexus 9 will be the 1st 64-bit tablet. What does that mean considering that it's a mobile device?
Is it just marketing or will it actually make some difference in the performance?
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Nvidia Doesn't disapoint us, so we might actually see an upgrade in performance , but there are many apps which doesn't support art which is very sad .
It represents quite a substantial jump in performance, particularly on any thing that favors single threaded performance. But don't just take my word for it.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nexu...gra-K1-outperforms-Apple-iPhone-6s-A8_id61825
It's just marketing. Yes the 64-bit version of the Tegra K1 is more powerful, but it being 64 bit doesn't add much outside of that.
Edit: Let me put it this way: If Google had gone with a different 64 bit chip, like for example that 64 bit Snapdragon 400, it wouldn't have given any performance gains over 32 bit. It just happens that Nvidia makes two versions of the Tegra K1 and the more powerful version happens to be 64 bit.
ehth77 said:
Nvidia Doesn't disapoint us, so we might actually see an upgrade in performance , but there are many apps which doesn't support art which is very sad .
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The reason they don't support ART is because they use libraries that don't support ART. However, if Google is releasing ART with no other alternative, I would guess that most of the Google libraries, if not all, will support the new runtime. An app that I know doesn't support it is Xposed Module, which is a shame.
P.S. I do have Nexus 5 running in ART and I have seen only two apps that didn't work with it. One of them was updated and now works.
jcracken said:
It's just marketing. Yes the 64-bit version of the Tegra K1 is more powerful, but it being 64 bit doesn't add much outside of that.
Edit: Let me put it this way: If Google had gone with a different 64 bit chip, like for example that 64 bit Snapdragon 400, it wouldn't have given any performance gains over 32 bit. It just happens that Nvidia makes two versions of the Tegra K1 and the more powerful version happens to be 64 bit.
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I think you are right.
rado932 said:
The reason they don't support ART is because they use libraries that don't support ART. However, if Google is releasing ART with no other alternative, I would guess that most of the Google libraries, if not all, will support the new runtime. An app that I know doesn't support it is Xposed Module, which is a shame.
P.S. I do have Nexus 5 running in ART and I have seen only two apps that didn't work with it. One of them was updated and now works.
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One more reason to pick up a Nexus 7.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Nope. The iPad Air was the first 64-bit tablet. N9 will be the first 64-bit Android tablet.
But don't let any of that fool you. Right now, 64-bit SoC mean nothing, as there are no 64-bit apps and no tablet has more than 4GB of RAM, which is the main reason to use a 64-bit architecture.
Of course, that's going to change in the near future. Android L, being itself 64-bit, will spur the development of 64-bit apps, and tablets with more than 4GB of RAM will inevitably get made.
Buying a N9 right now exclusively because it's 64-bit will be a waste of money.
At the end of the day it's the fastest SOC out there, 64bit or not. Let's just look forward to it.
rodrigorajao said:
Android L, being itself 64-bit, will spur the development of 64-bit apps, and tablets with more than 4GB of RAM will inevitably get made.
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Android L can also run in 32-bit mode which all phones will be doing until we start seeing 64-bit chipset releases there too. Do we know for sure that the Nexus 9 is even running the full 64-bit Android L release? Or is that planned for the future when Google gets it finished up or something?
I still don't get why people think the memory has anything to do with 64 v 32. I have never heard a person ever say "oh you machine is laggy because you have a 64bit machine and not enough memory." until I found this sub-forum. The iPhone/iPad have had 1-2GB of RAM and not had any huge performance issues while being 64bit.
There are memory issues, that's it, nothing to do with it being 64-bit or not. 3GB MAY "fix" the issue, but that would really just mean the machine would go longer until it started to show symptoms. The nexus 5 and 6 had LOTS of memory issues on Android 5 and no one ever said "it's not enough memory" and not being 64bit hardware they couldn't blame that, because it worked fine on 4.X. We have no 4.X to compare with, so everyone just wants to blame 64 bit when really, it just needs more software fixes that Google isn't spending time on.
If anything having a 64bit CPU just means the CPU can work harder and faster, even if it was running 32bit software. I know that not many developers ahve latched on to the n9, but i would NOT be surprised if a few clever ones could figure out what is actually causing the memory leaks/aggressive paging. For example on my n6 it is using about 4-500MB less ram, just to to Android OS and Google App. There is nothign about being 64-bit that means the Kernel needs over 2x's the memory usage. Something is making it keep memory instead of releasing it. I am not smart enough to know what that "something" is, but I'm sure someone that develops and has an N9 is smart enough and can file a bug report for it that we can all upvote.
If there are any current open bug reports for memory usage on the n9 please link them to me, I will gladly upvote them. Lets just be clear there is no reason to suspect this is anything more than a software issue.
To Update:
Here is a bug report i found of the problem, if more people could Star it then it can get up the priority list.
https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=175232
People like to blame the 64bit OS because the switch does make processes consume slightly more memory. If implemented poorly, a 64bit OS can eat up a lot more RAM. Windows XP 64, any Itanium based system and many early x64 Linux distributions come to mind.
Somehow Android OS on my N6 averages 220mb, while it's 800+ on the N9. Because the N9 is 64 bit, that change seems to be the obvious culprit. Clearly, the N9 didn't ship with enough RAM based on the OS memory use as somehow the N6 has 3gb for an 220MB OS footprint and the N9 has only 2mb, despite an OS that eats almost 4x the memory.
Switching to a 64bit OS should make the CPU, RAM, etc. all run 'faster', but if there's not enough RAM to hold running software, the experience will slow down as more processes need to be shuffled in and out of RAM. Look at what happens to a computer when it 'runs out of RAM'. The constant game of musical RAM chairs will more than erase any gains from switching to 64 bit.
In my mind, there is no question that SERIOUS problems exist with this device. The fact that this is one of the first 64bit Android devices is almost definitely a contributing factor, but the slightly reduced efficiency of how 64bit memory is allocated can in no way explain the problems with the devices. Something MUCH deeper is going on. Based on some research, here is what I've learned.
1: Some part of the OS is using an obscene amount of memory. Some of this is probably Google's fault because 64 bit Android just wasn't ready. I'm also pretty sure nVidia and HTC are more to blame for this issue than Google.
2: There's still not enough RAM. If the N6 has 3GB, there is no reason why the N9 shouldn't. Most tablet users run more memory-intensive
3: HTC built a bad device. I've had cellular issues with VZW & ATT which have been discussed in these forums and are obviously HTC's fault. I've also read about there being some hardware issues causing the ram to 'freeze' which required a replacement device.
4: nVidia's hardware sucks. More accurately, their x64 bit implementation of the hardware.
5: Graphics: I BELIEVE THIS IS THE GIANT ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM OF ISSUES. The nVidia Shield has similar hardware with a standard HD screen. The N9 has a different aspect ratio and a lot more pixels. The horrible application switching lag even with relatively low memory use (a process that is still taxing on the GPU) makes me think this is the main flaw of the device. This problem could also make the OS eat more memory to make up for the OS issues. A graphics issue would be everyone's fault. Google is to blame for insisting on this change when the other hardware just couldn't support it properly and choosing partners incapable of delivering the hardware to properly support the screen. nVidia and HTC to blame for not providing sufficient hardware and software support for the screen.
In reality, I think several factors combined to produce this issue. The components of the system were designed primarily for 32-bit implementations of Android. 64-bit support was baked into them, but it wasn't the focus of the components. The device itself was probably designed before 64-bit Android was even available to test properly. Because the pieces looked like they should fit together on paper, everyone just assumed they would. Unfortunately,for some components the fact that they could run in 64-bit mode, didn't mean they would run well.
x64 gets blamed because it is unknown. The average user has no idea what it means to have a 64 bit platform vs 32 bit. IMO x64 is unneeded unless you're mapping 4gb or more RAM and doing a lot of computations with large numbers.
There is most certainly a memory penalty since the os must run 64 bit code and likely have a vm of some sort to run all the existing 32 bit stuff. In windows this is obvious as you have program files and program files (x86) folders as well as windows\system32 and windows\syswow64 humorously the former is the 64 bit subsystem and the latter is the x86 subsystem. This is why you should plan ahead when architecting your applications and not name your folders poorly.
All that said, I have an htc m9 in addition to the nexus. The m9 is also 64 bit and has no issues. Not an apples to apples comparison since it is a Qualcomm processor with 3gb of ram and less pixels but it should indicate that 64 bit android is not the problem in and of itself.
Thanks guys. 64-bit apps should use at most 15-20% more RAM compared to their 32-bt counterparts, simply due to the fast that 64-bit assets are larger. The issue we have is that in cases like Android OS, using over 120% more memory than on a 32bit device. It also for some reason seems at times to feel like the GPU is taxed and it definitely should not be. So either the GPU drivers are buggy or the GPU memory is very limited. Luckily much of this is improved on 6.0, but there are still issues that need to be addressed in the OS itself.
Because saying "I do not know why my Nexus 9 performs poorly" is boring. Jumping to conclusions is much more exciting and dramatic.
knitler said:
Thanks guys. 64-bit apps should use at most 15-20% more RAM compared to their 32-bt counterparts, simply due to the fast that 64-bit assets are larger. The issue we have is that in cases like Android OS, using over 120% more memory than on a 32bit device. It also for some reason seems at times to feel like the GPU is taxed and it definitely should not be. So either the GPU drivers are buggy or the GPU memory is very limited. Luckily much of this is improved on 6.0, but there are still issues that need to be addressed in the OS itself.
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I suspect you are right that there are driver issues. Sadly our only recourse is to wait on nvidia/htc/google to rectify the issue.
Don't know what it is but 6.0 is not what I expected. Jerky , slow loading and very unpleasant to use. Have never rooted or rommed. Don't think I should have to. Did a FDR, no improvement. Have to constantly clear app cache and system cache to make it tolerable. Hoping for some relief from Google
Android 6 on my stock nexus 9 has brought every task switch of any kind to a near unusable lag. 4 to a full 20 seconds is the norm now. In fact, just about every response to user action in every app has this problem now. I've got almost nothing except Google's apps, many of which I don't use, but still have something running.
The tablet is now a paper weight, almost. The delays make it unusable, as you can't tell whether an interface action didn't "take", or is just laggy.
I did this as an update. Should I just wipe and reinstall clean? If so, where do I get the necessary files and instructions?
Thanks for any insight.
Black Friday buy, feeling I'm going to return it, two days in and I can see the issues already
dislplin01 said:
Black Friday buy, feeling I'm going to return it, two days in and I can see the issues already
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Welcome to the Lagsus 9 owners club [emoji6] Did it ship with latest android version, or did you ota update?
rolldroids said:
Welcome to the Lagsus 9 owners club [emoji6] Did it ship with latest android version, or did you ota update?
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It had to update, actually had like 7 different updates, I'm pretty sure I'm returning it I'm really unimpressed and most of it is hardware issues that can't be fixed, lack of ram, light bleed, ****ty power and volume buttons, not exactly the thinnest lightest tablet. Don't get me wrong its a nexus and I do like it, but I don't plan on buying another tablet for at least three years and if I'm already feeling a little unhappy
dislplin01 said:
It had to update, actually had like 7 different updates, I'm pretty sure I'm returning it I'm really unimpressed and most of it is hardware issues that can't be fixed, lack of ram, light bleed, ****ty power and volume buttons, not exactly the thinnest lightest tablet. Don't get me wrong its a nexus and I do like it, but I don't plan on buying another tablet for at least three years and if I'm already feeling a little unhappy
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I wish I would have returned it, but haven't because I thought they were fixing the memory leak. And after fixed it turned out that all other Nexus devices do well but not the n9.
Feel free to try my ROM if you're unsatisfied with what Google has done with stock.
NYCHitman1 said:
Feel free to try my ROM if you're unsatisfied with what Google has done with stock.
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Does it have lower system ram usage? There are people (like me) who want just use their device as a normal user and get ota updates and not flash the device manually every few weeks. It's very nice that you are sharing it anyway!
Everyone try first "safe mode" on Nexus 9 for 3-5 days to see if this app or hardware problem!
Press and hold power button
pres and hold "power off" option
then choose OK.
If problems gone (lag, resetting) then do factory reset without backup, install app manually not all at once from backup. It helped mine Nexus 9
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
rolldroids said:
Does it have lower system ram usage? There are people (like me) who want just use their device as a normal user and get ota updates and not flash the device manually every few weeks. It's very nice that you are sharing it anyway!
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I think you'll be happy. Popular quote that people often use is:
You have breathed new life into my Nexus 9.
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With that said, it's entirely possible to flash one build and stick with it for however long as you wish. When you do decide to update, you simply create a backup, "wipe", and flash the newer build with some gapps. Something to keep in mind here is that Nexus devices were created to be fiddled with. If you aren't fiddling, you aren't getting the full experience. It is a developer's device, after all. :highfive:
If this is a road you do decide to travel down, just be sure to do a lot of reading and understand what you're doing prior to doing it.
NYCHitman1 said:
I think you'll be happy. Popular quote that people often use is:
With that said, it's entirely possible to flash one build and stick with it for however long as you wish. When you do decide to update, you simply create a backup, "wipe", and flash the newer build with some gapps. Something to keep in mind here is that Nexus devices were created to be fiddled with. If you aren't fiddling, you aren't getting the full experience. It is a developer's device, after all. :highfive:
If this is a road you do decide to travel down, just be sure to do a lot of reading and understand what you're doing prior to doing it.
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It's a normal end user device, too. And for me the only choice. Don't like apple products at all. Don't want to buy a device and then not get updates. To be exactly, I want to know before I buy and not hope that Samsung, lg or whatever are so friendly to update. And, I don't like the modifications they do to the UI. So for me there is no other than Nexus. But I don't want this special fiddling experience. (For now. I will probably install a ROM on my Nexus 7 2012 some day)
According to this document
https://01.org/android-ia/user-guides/android-memory-tuning-android-5.0-and-5.1
64 bit indeed increases ram usage a lot...
I also have the impression that this is rather an issue with the Nvidia chipset or the general hardware design than with the system being 64bit.
This morning I had a very LOL moment when I read the Google Pixel C review of The Verve:
>>The specs are also huge: 3GB of RAM paired to the latest Nvidia X1 64-bit processor. That all seems good, but something is amiss with performance on the Pixel C. There are inexcusable pauses and latency, especially when launching and switching apps. <<
http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/8/9869980/google-pixel-c-tablet-review-android
So the problem still seems to be out of control. Too bad.
There are many threads about the Nexus 9 and memory issues but I have yet to see any reports of specific analysis of the issue on a problem device. I've had no memory issues with the Nexus 9, 7, 7(2013),5 and Asus tablets. I seen no evidence that there are hardware differences between Nexus 9's (except the pre release version tested for FCC emissions had a Miracast chip) and I believe it is down to the apps that users run. In support of this opinion:
Resets are recommended to clear the issues.
Google state at Investigating Your RAM Usage Although Dalvik and ART perform routine garbage collection (GC), this doesn’t mean you can ignore when and where your app allocates and releases memory. In order to provide a stable user experience that allows the system to quickly switch between apps, it is important that your app does not needlessly consume memory when the user is not interacting with it. Has anyone with memory issues looked at the recommended tests at the link above?
The quality of apps published. Anecdotal evidence (I hope it's wrong) that publishing an app on Google store can be done in 30 minutes but Apple requires "days". I've never owned an Apple product I'm just saying that to me, not a software developer, that the compliance standards imposed on the software tested may allow bad coding to slip through.