Related
am i the only one tired of trying to keep up with the 50+ pages of the issues thread and the chatter thread??
i was thinking of setting up a bugzilla like website for the xda live ROM.... but that would defeat the purpose of everything being in one place.... moderators/administrators is there anyway of setting up a hermesbugzilla.xda-developers.com site on your servers???
or anyone have a better idea?
Tell me about it, its a bit frustrating reading the same issues over and over again - especially when they've already been answered a million times.
How can I change the keyboard to suit my 8525 again? .
I don't think it warrants a bugzilla site, perhaps another Wiki page?
or new users have to be forced to read the wiki page before they can browse the forums....
There should be a new forum that only "Senior Members" can access That way we can just ignore the n00bs
I've got no problem with noobs, its great that they're keen on learning about their device - but that word is very important, learning. People need to learn to do some research themselves before asking questions, most of them have already been answered!
KevinBaker said:
I've got no problem with noobs, its great that they're keen on learning about their device - but that word is very important, learning. People need to learn to do some research themselves before asking questions, most of them have already been answered!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not learning.... its reading first... they try and learn before reading and they brick their devices....
Before I attempted to do a single thing to my hermes, I spent a few *weeks* reading, learning, understanding and playing so that when the time finally came to do the deed, it went flawlessly.
It is a process. You need to UNDERSTAND what you're doing, know the reason WHY you're doing it, and LEARN about the process!
If you don't want to invest the time to understand, then just don't bother--it'll save you a bricked device.
LegolasTheElf said:
Before I attempted to do a single thing to my hermes, I spent a few *weeks* reading, learning, understanding and playing so that when the time finally came to do the deed, it went flawlessly.
It is a process. You need to UNDERSTAND what you're doing, know the reason WHY you're doing it, and LEARN about the process!
If you don't want to invest the time to understand, then just don't bother--it'll save you a bricked device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ive been playing with PDA's for 3 years... ive read more documents and more how to's... bricked and unbricked my devices i cannot begin to count... but we need a process for the new users to follow... before they can even browse the forum they need to read the wiki or something....
Could we have a private area only for people who can pass a test based on the Wiki?
Q1) You just bought a new TyTn. You want to put WM6 on it. What is the FIRST thing you should do?
a) Download Des' SSPL RUU
b) Carefully read the Wiki and all related threads
c) Use Pof's version 3 unlocker to SuperCID your device
d) Download XDA-Live and run the upgrade program
I'm guessing that a lot of n00bs can't figure out the right answer to the above... It's multiple choice. What's YOUR answer?
LegolasTheElf said:
Could we have a private area only for people who can pass a test based on the Wiki?
Q1) You just bought a new TyTn. You want to put WM6 on it. What is the FIRST thing you should do?
a) Download Des' SSPL RUU
b) Carefully read the Wiki and all related threads
c) Use Pof's version 3 unlocker to SuperCID your device
d) Download XDA-Live and run the upgrade program
I'm guessing that a lot of n00bs can't figure out the right answer to the above... It's multiple choice. What's YOUR answer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
e) can i use the builtin GPS on the hermes?
f) how can i upgrade the radio if i have radio bootloader 108
LegolasTheElf said:
There should be a new forum that only "Senior Members" can access That way we can just ignore the n00bs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not fair!!You joined this December '06 .. lol
kkiran said:
Thats not fair!!You joined this December '06 .. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not about when you joined... its about knowledge and commitment... hahahaha... not really... just knowledge...
i dont have a problem answering questions... but when the same question gets asked 6 times in one day thats when i get pissed... its not hard to use the search function guys... all it takes 30 minutes to an hour and you have the knowledge to flash your device... the search function and the wiki are your best tools!!!
kkiran said:
Thats not fair!!You joined this December '06 .. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but, I've had PDA's for as long as PDA's existed.. My first one was a Palm Pilot 5000 (3Com's version of it). I got it about 2 weeks after it was released.
I've owned PPC's for about 3+years, and am an MCSE (so, I understand the technology inside the version of Windows it uses pretty well).
I read for a while before joining; but, quite frankly, I didn't have a reason to join here before I did--the 8525 didn't exist until about a week before I bought it!
walshieau said:
its not learning.... its reading first... they try and learn before reading and they brick their devices....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If we didn't brick devices, the senior's wouldn't be developing unbricking techniques which allow us to do much more.
If we sensor, test or discriminate then we lose the purpose of this forum (maybe even become like Microsh*t). How would Pof, Olipro, Kyphur etc have become members if they hadn't been able to ask the questions which helped teach them their skills.
The main reason there are so many repeat or dumb questions out now is because there have been so many new tools and Roms released in such a short time. This will settle down as development slows.
Maybe the best way round this is to put a front screen to all the forums giving a very brief guide how to use the Wiki and search facility. I'd also include a statement that any question which have been asked and answered before will be deleted and that the poster needs to research the question. This message could also be linked to show on a posters screen for each of his first 5 posts so he couldn't bypass the warning/advice.
Just my opinions, but I hate sensoring and eliteism (don't let the dummies ask ME questions), particularly when the sensors have benefitted from the source they are sensoring.
ach2 said:
If we didn't brick devices, the senior's wouldn't be developing unbricking techniques which allow us to do much more.
If we sensor, test or discriminate then we lose the purpose of this forum (maybe even become like Microsh*t). How would Pof, Olipro, Kyphur etc have become members if they hadn't been able to ask the questions which helped teach them their skills.
The main reason there are so many repeat or dumb questions out now is because there have been so many new tools and Roms released in such a short time. This will settle down as development slows.
Maybe the best way round this is to put a front screen to all the forums giving a very brief guide how to use the Wiki and search facility. I'd also include a statement that any question which have been asked and answered before will be deleted and that the poster needs to research the question. This message could also be linked to show on a posters screen for each of his first 5 posts so he couldn't bypass the warning/advice.
Just my opinions, but I hate sensoring and eliteism (don't let the dummies ask ME questions), particularly when the sensors have benefitted from the source they are sensoring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wasnt talking about sensoring... just preaching the knowledge before you make a choice to flash or cook or play with roms....
Its not the fact that questions are asked - questions are good!
Its the fact that people make no effort to research and find out the answers for themselves before asking it. How many times has "How do I fix the keyboard on my 8525", "How do I enable GPS", "How do I flash this ROM", etc - when the answers are all there, easy to find.
Maybe an alternative would be to have 3 levels of each forum, Jumior, member and senior...
Juniors could only post in junior forum but could read all 3,
Members could post in member and junior forums and read all 3
Seniors could post and read all 3.
Any member or senior who posts too many 'dumb' threads could be warned and possibly bumped down a level by the mods.
This way anyone can help people less experienced, and the less experienced can learn from everyone by reading. Any posts you make will be to your peers but may be answered by your seniors.
Also, the likes of Kyphur and Olipro who are actively developing can ask questions and get answers from the people with the most experience.
I still don't like this too much because there is no reason for more senior members to read junior forums, but it does leave the whole forum accessible to all and puts the emphasis on juniors to ask and answer questions to gain knowledge and thus get 'promoted'.
Why does every forum end up with this debate? Cos its human nature...
People get excited about flashing new roms to their devices and go ahead and do it and then panic when their beloved gadget doesn't work properly...
Yes - people should read the wiki before a) doing stuff and b) asking question but if everyone behaved exactly the way they "should", the world would be a really boring place.
I personally made sure that I read up before flashing WMXL1 and 2 - they were my first xda flashes - but I understand why loads of people dont. Yes repeat questions are annoying, but in some cases they are asked again because the answer given is too high-brow for the noobs to understand...
Oh and its "censor" !
For bugs and enhancements tracking my personal favorite is Jira. Very widespread among open source and commercial projects. They have a Community & Open Source License model where you can get it for free ...
http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
don't agree - don't like it - should'nt do it !
How do you judge who is a noob and who is not? and who does that?
What criteria will be used?
We are opening up a big and unnecessary debate here.
Actually with all stupid questions on this site, we do actually learn from each other at ALL levels.
This is what make this site an unbelievable success.
So, I'm going to wait until the official ICS update appears for my SII. (supposedly 19th of March)
However, I still want root without flashing a custom kernel. (not wanting to increment the custom flash counter)
My understanding is that if I update to the official ICS update then the usb jig becomes useless in resetting the counter. Is that correct?
The current method I used to root was via superoneclick, however.. that no longer works with ICS right?
If for example I wanted to reset the counter (if I did use a custom kernel for root) could I downgrade from the official ICS back to GB (using odin) and then use the usb jig to reset it?
NB. I use root for titaniumbackup, adaway and lbe privacy guard.
About half of what you've written is incorrect, and you can find the correct information from a little bit of searching and reading.
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
oinkylicious said:
About half of what you've written is incorrect, and you can find the correct information from a little bit of searching and reading.
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, that's the second post I've seen of yours that is entirely unhelpful.
You can only do so much searching and this sub-forum is called "Q&A"...
AFAIK you don't need to flash a GB Rom to make usb jig work you can just flash an old bootloader and usb jig should work like a charm after that
You got that response because this question is answered several times a day on here. And the answer can be easily found with a few minutes legwork. XReal is correct. You can flash the old bootloader & a jig will work. So it looks like you've got a bit of research/searching (to find said bootloader) to do.
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Huh, that's the second post I've seen of yours that is entirely unhelpful.
You can only do so much searching and this sub-forum is called "Q&A"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MistahBungle said:
You got that response because this question is answered several times a day on here. And the answer can be easily found with a few minutes legwork. XReal is correct. You can flash the old bootloader & a jig will work. So it looks like you've got a bit of research/searching (to find said bootloader) to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still, there was no need for it. A better response would have been to either choose not to respond or post with a link to a post answering the questions. XDA has been getting a very bad reputation because of posts like the above. (hell I've been a lurker on here for quite a while opting instead to read information and posts rather than posting because of the above)
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Still, there was no need for it. A better response would have been to either choose not to respond or post with a link to a post answering the questions. XDA has been getting a very bad reputation because of posts like the above. (hell I've been a lurker on here for quite a while opting instead to read information and posts rather than posting because of the above)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its getting a bad rep because people refuse to search and clog the forums up with already answered questions
There's even a sticky in general saying don't create ice threads...people still do it
This is a development forum, not a spoonfeed n00bs & lazy people whatever they demand forum. And it certainly isn't a democracy. If people want to gain anything from their time here, they need to read & learn.
People who don't like that can go to Sammobile for all I (and a lot of people here) care.
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Still, there was no need for it. A better response would have been to either choose not to respond or post with a link to a post answering the questions. XDA has been getting a very bad reputation because of posts like the above. (hell I've been a lurker on here for quite a while opting instead to read information and posts rather than posting because of the above)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Darkside Agent said:
Its getting a bad rep because people refuse to search and clog the forums up with already answered questions
There's even a sticky in general saying don't create ice threads...people still do it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, people are posting ICS threads in general. Sure, there are people who are a bit ignorant but nothing is achieved by being rude. If it's been said a million times then don't post, let the thread die rather or until a mod locks it.
As to the bad rep, yep.. it's definitely because of people saying "use search" or "noobs". If you like I'd be perfectly happy to provide some examples? (oops, can't post urls at the moment until I've hit 8 posts)
There is a level of people keeping up with information and using search. And people who don't keep a constant watch on threads. (hence my post, I can't say I'm too enthusiastic about trawling through endless posts.. I did a bit of reading and searching, wasn't 100% sure so I thought I'd post in a question and answer sub-forum)
Anyway, I've derailed my own thread enough. xReal gave me the confirmation I was after.
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
As to the bad rep, yep.. it's definitely because of people saying "use search" or "noobs".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its got nothing to do with that at all
Like i said, its because people refuse to search, refuse to read and refuse to educate themselves. Everyone just wants spoonfeeding.
Why do people insist on opening a new ICS thread when they could just ask their question in an existing thread? Theres plenty of them....it because people WONT search - they want the answer there and then like its something they deserve
Darkside Agent said:
its got nothing to do with that at all
Like i said, its because people refuse to search, refuse to read and refuse to educate themselves. Everyone just wants spoonfeeding.
Why do people insist on opening a new ICS thread when they could just ask their question in an existing thread? Theres plenty of them....it because people WONT search - they want the answer there and then like its something they deserve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, search is pretty bad unless you know the exact terms to search for. And reading through threads can often span a significant number pages. People see those gigantic threads and can only read so much before they become either frustrated or disillusioned.
Pretty often I've just resorted to using google site search because it gives better results than the inbuilt site search. This is a problem endemic of all large forums.
Of course there are poorly worded, poorly thought out posts where the person has not read or searched. But nothing is ever achieved by jumping up and down whilst screaming about noobs and demanding they use search. In less time than it took to post about noobs and using search a reply could have been formed linking to a thread with the answer or simply it could have been left to die with all the chaff posts.
To be fair, search is pretty bad unless you know the exact terms to search for. And reading through threads can often span a significant number pages. People see those gigantic threads and can only read so much before they become either frustrated or disillusioned.
Pretty often I've just resorted to using google site search because it gives better results than the inbuilt site search. This is a problem endemic of all large forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep the search is bad on here, using google with XDA added in the search terms works fine though and provides 95% of required results
In less time than it took to post about noobs and using search a reply could have been formed linking to a thread with the answer or simply it could have been left to die with all the chaff posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OR, if they read up themselves, they wouldnt have to wait for an answer or get flamed from other users...it works both ways.
The only reason you are seeing so many 'use the search function' posts is because these inane threads with questions that have already been asked ans answered pop up more now than any other kind of thread...put it this way....i no longer come to this forum to garner knowledge/info/mods/techniques or anything like that anymore, i just come here to see what other useless threads have been created and what the responses were to said thread...its becoming entertaining as well as frustrating (theres also a reason why a lot of oinkylicious' recent posts contain the copied pasted section from the forum rules:
1. Search before posting
If people aren't doing this, then they are breaking forum rules and should be given a 'vacation'
Darkside Agent said:
yep the search is bad on here, using google with XDA added in the search terms works fine though and provides 95% of required results
OR, if they read up themselves, they wouldnt have to wait for an answer or get flamed from other users...it works both ways.
The only reason you are seeing so many 'use the search function' posts is because these inane threads with questions that have already been asked ans answered pop up more now than any other kind of thread...put it this way....i no longer come to this forum to garner knowledge/info/mods/techniques or anything like that anymore, i just come here to see what other useless threads have been created and what the responses were to said thread...its becoming entertaining as well as frustrating (theres also a reason why a lot of oinkylicious' recent posts contain the copied pasted section from the forum rules:
1. Search before posting
If people aren't doing this, then they are breaking forum rules and should be given a 'vacation'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if people weren't so eager to be so rude this site would be much less frustrating for everyone involved. Case in point look at the tag added to this thread or oinkylicious' post. Not helpful to anyone in the least.
If someone can't contribute to a thread in a useful manner then don't post. The post rate is of a relatively high ratio that it'll quickly disappear into the ether.
And again, people can only do so much searching and reading. As you yourself said the site search is pretty bad and posts can often span a significant number of pages making reading up nigh on impossible unless you spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over everything. You can't expect people to know everything.
I promised an example url earlier. Since I'm still not at 8 posts, I'll post it without the "http://" and hope the filter doesn't pick it out: pay.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/pse0m/rant_about_xda_short_and_angry_but_bear_with_me/
There is one heck of a lot of valid criticism in there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1501719
this should work
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Again, if people weren't so eager to be so rude this site would be much less frustrating for everyone involved. Case in point look at the tag added to this thread or oinkylicious' post. Not helpful to anyone in the least.
If someone can't contribute to a thread in a useful manner then don't post. The post rate is of a relatively high ratio that it'll quickly disappear into the ether.
And again, people can only do so much searching and reading. As you yourself said the site search is pretty bad and posts can often span a significant number of pages making reading up nigh on impossible unless you spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over everything. You can't expect people to know everything.
I promised an example url earlier. Since I'm still not at 8 posts, I'll post it without the "http://" and hope the filter doesn't pick it out: pay.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/pse0m/rant_about_xda_short_and_angry_but_bear_with_me/
There is one heck of a lot of valid criticism in there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bunch of whiny users in that link you posted. And the important word here is 'users'.
You, like a lot of people are clearly under the misapprehension that XDA is a users forum. It is not. It is a development forum where users are tolerated provided certain 'rules' are adhered to by said users.
On XDA, developers come first, second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh. People who are prepared to read, learn and put in a bit of effort beyond searching for 20 seconds & throwing their hands in the air because they can't find something come sixth. And people who demand everything to be given to them on a silver platter don't figure into the equation whatsoever.
And your criticisms are completely invalid in the case of the question you asked, the answer is easily found in a minute in spite of XDA's crappy search facility (anyone who has been here more than 5 minutes knows to use Google with XDA appended to search terms). Why ? Because it's asked on here several times a day.
You can keep on digging a hole for yourself if you want tho.
Edit to add - Looks like it's your lucky day that I have fat fingers :-|
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Again, if people weren't so eager to be so rude this site would be much less frustrating for everyone involved.
Maybe but this is a developers forum not a fix my phone forum .
Search may well be hard but as 90% of troublesome posters dont even bother to read the stickies faqs or guides dont mind reading the posts on the page they post on why should they be helped .
You asked
My understanding is that if I update to the official ICS update then the usb jig becomes useless in resetting the counter. Is that correct?
Its been asked multiple times their is even a post covering the topic .
First post on Google
http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-1296161.html
You asked
f for example I wanted to reset the counter (if I did use a custom kernel for root) could I downgrade from the official ICS back to GB (using odin) and then use the usb jig to reset it?
Yet another question that has been answered multiple times .
Noobs come on here and get help all the time but their is a massive uprising by those that actually take the time to help against the ones that totally ignore the rules and demand everything dumped in their lap . If you where one of a few you would have got an answer but you are one of many sadly for this forum and its getting worse day by day .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MistahBungle said:
Bunch of whiny users in that link you posted. And the important word here is 'users'.
You, like a lot of people are clearly under the misapprehension that XDA is a users forum. It is not. It is a development forum where users are tolerated provided certain 'rules' are adhered to by said users.
On XDA, developers come first, second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh. People who are prepared to read, learn and put in a bit of effort beyond searching for 20 seconds & throwing their hands in the air because they can't find something come sixth. And people who demand everything to be given to them on a silver platter don't figure into the equation whatsoever.
And your criticisms are completely invalid in the case of the question you asked, the answer is easily found in a minute in spite of XDA's crappy search facility (anyone who has been here more than 5 minutes knows to use Google with XDA appended to search terms). Why ? Because it's asked on here several times a day.
You can keep on digging a hole for yourself if you want tho.
Edit to add - Looks like it's your lucky day that I have fat fingers :-|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can't address the points and complain about "whiny users" and so forth then why are you replying?
If this site was dedicated to purely developers then there would be a number of things for said developers. Namely things like an instance of bugzilla or other software for bug tracking and git (or something else like cvs *spit*) repositories for development to ensure versions and code submitting are kept on top of.
The fact that there are Q&A, Accessories etc sub-forums rather than just forums for development only counters your assertion.
Honestly, who is digging the hole? The ones who use Ad hominems and fail to address a single point or the ones raising the criticism?
You keep replying, so surely something I'm saying is quite valid.
A quick example of what a former mod classes this forum as;
link
Yes searching is in the rules and needs to be complied with, the problem most with non searchers is that they make the search harder as people search same thing and get another useless post asking the question and not the informative answers that they want.........!
Thread closed.
This shouldn't have to be here, but because people don't seem to get it, i want to re-emphasize it in THIS board as well.
Per board rules, do NOT post a thread without first:
1) SEARCHING THE BOARD - More likely than not, your problem is not new, and has been asked about before. If you search, your stand a good chance of finding an answer to your problem, without having to wait for somebody to answer it (again). If you don't like the board's search engine, use google:
"question" site:http://forum.xda-developers.com
Replace "question" with yours, and see what comes up.
2) READ THE STICKIES - Common issues like rooting, upgrading, and crashing are ALREADY covered in the stickies; there is no point making a new thread about it. If it is a guide on how to do something, and you don't understand it... sorry, but you probably should not be doing it. If you REALLY feel it is a badly written guide, or you know of a new thing to go with it, PM A MOD. WE can update the guides; but please, keep new threads to a min.
Red and I do not do this to be jerks. WE understand that some of this stuff can feel overwhelming and scary to a first time user. But if we had every new user posting a thread about everything already covered, we would be overrun in a day. Slower boards can handle it, but i am sorry, we just cannot. Redundant threads WILL continue to be locked down..
Thank you for actually reading this..
This shouldn't have to be here, but because people don't seem to get it, i want to re-emphasize it in THIS board as well.
Per board rules, do NOT post a thread without first:
1) SEARCHING THE BOARD - More likely than not, your problem is not new, and has been asked about before. If you search, your stand a good chance of finding an answer to your problem, without having to wait for somebody to answer it (again). If you don't like the board's search engine, use google:
"question" site:http://forum.xda-developers.com
Replace "question" with yours, and see what comes up.
2) READ THE STICKIES - Common issues like rooting, upgrading, and crashing are ALREADY covered in the stickies; there is no point making a new thread about it. If it is a guide on how to do something, and you don't understand it... sorry, but you probably should not be doing it. If you REALLY feel it is a badly written guide, or you know of a new thing to go with it, PM A MOD. WE can update the guides; but please, keep new threads to a min.
Red and I do not do this to be jerks. WE understand that some of this stuff can feel overwhelming and scary to a first time user. But if we had every new user posting a thread about everything already covered, we would be overrun in a day. Slower boards can handle it, but i am sorry, we just cannot. Redundant threads WILL continue to be locked down..
Thank you for actually reading this..
Is there a way to lock normal users out of a DEV thread? I ask this because it's becoming increasingly difficult to navigate a 100+ page thread, of which only about 4 pages actually contain ANYTHING related to the development of these ROMS, when you have to read through PAGES of spam. I know in another forum I frequent, they can setup private debates that users can READ, but not post in. If this is something that has already been discussed or whatnot, then please forgive me. I did a short search before hand and didn't really find anything, so I thought I would bring it up. Also, if I stepped on any toes, again I apologize, not intending this as such, just a simple curiosity I guess. I know I would probably do more here myself if I was able to limit a threads participants, so that I and the people testing (or even the people reading it) could find the info we were seeking much more easily.
Thanks for reading my half brained post, and again, if this is out of line or anything, please feel free to remove it with my sincere apologies.
Ric