[Q] Stuck in boot - can't fix - Galaxy S II Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Hey guys,
First off, although I hope that it turns out to be very easy to fix and that I've been an ass for being unable to find it myself, I've been trying to figure this out for several hours and I can really use your advice.
The S2 is upgraded to the latest version (I think, it's been several months since last update) of ICS, via KIES. Never did any modding on it.
Problem: (Not sure if this is really the cause of the problem, but) I have never been able to check the way my internal and external RAM and SD-card has been filled up, by which I mean the standard overview in the S2's settings. The information would not simply not load. A few days ago though, I had a lot of time on my hands, so I just kept it running on that screen for a very long time. When I came to check again: it was stuck in the bootscreen ('flashing Samsung logo').
It is still stuck at this screen, despite removing battery several times and removing SD-card. I am able to get into System recovery as well as Download mode. I have wiped the cache partition via System recovery. Also I have tried to reset it via KIES, but despite the computer's System messages saying that it is recognized, it does not get past the connection screen in KIES ("machine not responding''). So there's seems to be nothing I can do via KIES.
My true question: Is my only option left to 'wipe data/factory reset' in the phone's Recovery system, or am I missing another solution?
I hope that you can help me out with this.
Thanks!

You can try flashing a stock rom with Odin, that may fix it without a factory reset. Get one for your country/carrier from Samfirmware (not 4.0.4) & flash it following the instructions in thread stickied near top of Q&A titled 'Flash stock firmware'. If you have problems with the flash, find Hopper8's 'Odin troubleshooting' thread stickied in the General section & go through the troubleshooting steps in a methodical manner until you get a successful flash.
It's 50/50 whether this will fix it on its own, you may end up having to do a factory reset after the flash anyway, so try it & see.
I presume we're talking about an I9100 ? (S2 is a generic term, there's a number of variants).

Thanks for your swift reply!
Yes it's the GT-I9100. For which there actually seems to be no firmware for, for Holland/Netherlands on Sammobile.com. Any advice where I could then get it?

Plenty of firmwares available for the Netherlands on Samfirmware (yes I just checked), use a different browser and/or turn off any script blockers/similar - their site is heavily script dependent & won't work properly if you're blocking them.
And any firmware will do really, I just assume many people in this situation will stay on stock firmware, so you may as well stick with your country/carrier as this rom will have a modem bundled that will work well with your carrier, if you start flashing stock roms for other countries/carriers, that might not be the case.

It took me a while to figure it all out, but I eventually managed to do it! But something went wrong after flashing, I think.
These were ODIN's last messages:
<ID:0/003> Remain Port .... 0
<OSM> All threads completed. (succeed 1 / failed 0)
Then my phone restarted. After having been stuck at the Samsung logo for a few minutes, it changed! It started upgrading the Android-system by 'Optimising applications' and then by 'Opening applications'. But.. It's now stuck at opening the applications.
Is it possible that this is due to me having removed the SD-card at start? I do have most of my apps on the SD-card.
Thanks so far! I have appreciated it very much

So far no succes I'm afraid.
As I told in the post above, after the first flash my mobile got to the 'Opening applications' screen during rebooting. Because it got stuck there, I thought it might have to do with my external sd-card (which holds most of my apps) not being in the phone during flash. So I flashed it again, this time with the sd-card inside the phone.
Still no luck! Once again stuck the Samsung logo.
Any idea what else I could try?

SOLVED
Hey guys, just to give an update! It finally worked!
After flashing a few times, I performed a wipe data/factory reset after all. After having done so (and giving it another 10 minutes) it worked!
I have lost all my contacts and my stories in my Notes, but I guess that couldn't be avoided. No chance of getting (especially) the Notes back I presume?
Either way, thanks for kicking me in the right direction MistahBungle! Not sure if it'll actually give you any rewards, but I referred you on Sammobile

Good man. Glad you fixed it (sorry I wasn't around to see your other posts yesterday). Yep, I did say there was a chance you'd need to do a factory reset after flash, and half of these we see are fixed by just flashing & the other half need a reset.
If you're staying on stock, make sure you backup your stuff with Kies or Google, and most apps have the ability to create backups which you should keep copies of on your external sd card if you have one, and on your PC.
You're welcome (thanks for the referral on Samfirmware)

Related

[Q] No Copy Protected Apps After One Click Root

I'm a total noob here and to Android...well to all of this really. I've searched the forums (I swear) to find an answer elsewhere, but found only solutions based on the EVO or Experia, and neither was exactly the issue I'm facing. Here's what I did:
1.) Had total stock phone that got sluggish and lagging after installing JI5 through Kies.
2.) Factory Reset and One Click Root. Phone was noticeably snappier still with the JI5 obviously, so the reset helped that.
3.) Used Rom Manager app to make a backup
4.) Using Titanium Backup removed some of the bloatware (got sick of Slacker Radio and TelNav randomly running when I never opened either once)
5.) Went about re-downloading apps lost in the factory reset and noticed the NY Times app isn't even in the market anymore? Read in another forum about it being copy protected (even though it's free!) and therefore wont show up in the market on a rooted phone. Ugh...
6.) Start reading and trying to learn about kernals and custom Roms, Odin, and flashing...and "holy crap, I'm in way over my head".
7.) Unrooted, and still no apps.
Now I just want to get back to where I was before Installing JI5, have access to the whole market, and be able to get the JI6 OTA update. I've read the "Easiest way back to stock" thread but not sure that's going to fix the copy protected apps problem, and I'm worried that's going to screw up my GPS again (though,to be fair, it isn't that good now), and not sure what that does to my ability to get to JI6.
Guys, I know these questions are long, probably annoying, and possibly redundant. I've learned my lesson, I wanna get back to the shallow end of the pool! Can anyone help get me there?
"all the Dude ever wanted was his rug back."
After more reading, would flashing Bionix 1.7 fix all of this?
first, check to make sure your phone can enter download mode by connecting the usb cable to the phone and computer and pressing all three buttons until it resets. release the power button when you see the vibrant logo.
if you see a little yellow robot shoveling **** you're in.
if it doesn't. search around the forums for info about Hardware locked phones.
if it does:
download Odin
download stock JFD
use odin to flash JFD with repartition checked and the 512 pit file.
then use odin to flash JI6 with repartition UNCHECKED and the 512 pit file.
then you should be at stock and everything should work as if you never touched it and just updated.
note this will erase your system and data (your settings and stuff).
more info by searching the forums for any of those items.
Worked perfect! Thanks for your help!

[Q] Galaxy S2 Stuck At Boot Screen

Hello, sorry if this has already been answered but I did look around at similar scenarios and it seems to me that using odin to flash the stock kernel should fix it but on my device, however, it doesn't fix my problem. I beleive what I did was select update firmware from .zip in clockwork on accident. Idk if this is what you consider a "boot loop" because it doesnt restart it just sits there at the black galaxy s2 screen. Any insight would be great. I hate to have to buy a new one as it is quite alot of money. Like I said, sorry if this is already answered but after looking around for hours I still hve had no luck. Thanks in advance, Alex
Can you get into recovery (volume up+home+power) or download mode (volume down+home+power)?
I can get in to download and recovery mode both
The outlook is promising then. Without knowing what you've flashed, it's impossible to say what damage you've done, but if you don't mind losing your data, you can certainly get back to a working state by following [READ THIS] Got a Boot Loop? Don't post a New Thread!.
Before going down that route though, if you do want to keep your data, let us know what you flashed as it might be recoverable (maybe you just flashed the wrong kernel).
I can't say for sure what i flashed but I can say that i either flashed with an update or updated with a kernel??? sound right??? idk. the data isnt near as important to me as the 680 dollars my carrier will charge me for a new s2. Right now im using a junk alcatel tribe and im going through galaxy withdrawls.
Well before flashing anything else, make sure you definitely have an I9100, not some other variant (I notice you mentioned dollars). If you have a different model, you're in the wrong forums and might make things worse by following advice for the I9100.
I was pretty sure that it is the I9100 but i took the battery out and double checked. it IS the I9100
also for what it's worth when going into recovery(stock version) right after the text reading updating application it gives me an error in red. (E:install_application_for_customer:Can't unmount /preload copy application failed) and after the (Appling [yes it really spells it appling] Multi-CSC) it says Can't access to '/system/csc/TTT/system/'. However, the line after it says that it says Successfully applied multi-CSC
My first attempt to get back to a working phone without losing data would be to flash a stock kernel then, have you tried that?
Ok.. done.. but it still sits at the galaxy screen except now it has the triange due to the custom firmware
If that hasn't got you up and running then it's probably time to bite the bullet and follow the instructions from the boot loop thread linked above (which will also remove the triangle).
Maybe you can answer another question for me. When in recovery mode it says apply update from sdcard... why does it say that when it doesnt actually read from the sdcard? i have checked with the sdcard both in and out and the file directory in the recovery mode doesnt change. is it calling the usb storage an sd card?
ok when flashing a stock rom do i use the phone option in odin or the pda still
If you're flashing a stock rom from [ROM+Guide]Official i9100 Firmwares KG, KH1/2/3/4, KI1/2/3/4/8, KJ1/2 Download, then just follow the instructions from there (but usually PDA).
:'( Still wont boot.
What does happen, did any steps fail, any error messages?
Everything went smooth with no errors. No steps failed. Sitting at the boot screen is all it does though
Did you definitely wipe user data? (step 3). The final step of that thread is to try flashing a ROM which wipes, such as (non-stock) VillainROM 1.1.
well... yes i definitely wiped the user data and it was successfull when doing so. I didnt try the villian rom just because I thought that it was an optional thing but i will def. try it now that you bring it up. and hey, i really appreciate the help no matter what the outcome
(VillainROM 1.1 - XWKE7 base) I'm a UHKG7..... is this going to be a problem? just something i noticed and thought I would ask before going ahead

[Q] Phone stuck on boot screen, wrong stock ROM?

I'm in a bit of a tight situation over here. My mom's phone was having issues, so she wanted me to fix it before I left to visit my grandparents. I found a stock ROM for the phone (GT-i9100 International) and flashed it, but the phone always got stuck on the "Samsung Galaxy SII GT-I9100" boot screen (occasionally it would show the "O2" screen, as it was a ROM for Ireland). I tried a different ROM (can't remember what country it was), and I'm still stuck with the same problem. This time no O2 screen though. I've downloaded my ROMs through sammobile.com and I'm using ODIN v1.83.
The label under the battery reads:
Model: GT-I9100
SSN: -I9100GSMH
What ROM should I use and where can I get it? I found this thread with a link to the ROM for the international version, but Hotfile has been shut down, so I can't download it.
Sorry if I could've found the answer with a few more hours of searching, but I've got less than 24 hours to find a fix and I was hoping that someone else could help me. Thanks a lot!
EDIT: I'm in the U.S., if that matters.
Try AndroidFirmwares.net or Samsung-Updates.com. If it were me in that situation (I.E not my phone), I'd be putting whatever the latest firmware is for the carrier/country.
Any region?
MistahBungle said:
Try AndroidFirmwares.net or Samsung-Updates.com. If it were me in that situation (I.E not my phone), I'd be putting whatever the latest firmware is for the carrier/country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should any region work to get the phone up and running? I just need to get it back up so that I can root it and flash CM10. Thanks.
Yep absolutely. If your end result is to root the phone & put a custom rom on, use any stock rom you can get your hands on. Though I'd be avoiding 4.0.4, anything other than that should be fine.
MistahBungle said:
Yep absolutely. If your end result is to root the phone & put a custom rom on, use any stock rom you can get your hands on. Though I'd be avoiding 4.0.4, anything other than that should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is 4.1.2 OK, or should I go for 4.0.3 or below?
Doesn't matter, take your pick.
More info on problem
I tried installing two other ROMs (from androidfirmwares.net), one 4.1.2 and one 2.3.6. The 4.1.2 didn't get me anywhere, but after I flashed 2.3.6 the phone said the assert check failed. GT-i9100 is on the list of what it checked for. (I've never had any luck with the assert checks on any of my Samsung phones: GS Captivate, GSII Skyrocket, or AT&T GSIII. I've always had to remove the check in my update script.) I attached a picture.
EDIT: Since the attachment doesn't seem to be working, here's a Dropbox link.
Pic won't load for me, but it mentions 'recovery error', what exactly are you doing/what's the problem ?
MistahBungle said:
Pic won't load for me, but it mentions 'recovery error', what exactly are you doing/what's the problem ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My process:
Open ODIN v3.09
Plug in the phone, already in download mode.
Click the AP button and load my .tar.md5.
Click Start.
Wait for it to finish, leaving the phone untouched on the table.
I just tried another USB cable, but to no avail. I've also tried unplugging the phone right after it reboots and ODIN says "PASS!", but no luck there either. I just tried another ROM that just finished downloading and it's giving me a similar getprop() error. At the bottom of the output in red it says:
E:Error in /cache/recovery/sec_csc.zip
(Status 7)
Installation aborted.
I don't think there's any way for me to edit the update script, as the tar contains a bunch of filesystem images. Even if it was easy to edit it would ruin the checksum verification.
Check out the picture on Dropbox here.
What are you trying to do in Android recovery ? Given what your stated aim is - get a stock rom on the phone, re-root it, put custom rom on, you shouldn't be using Android (I.E stock) recovery at any stage.
The process should be:-
*Flash stock rom with Odin in download mode (I.E phone off - home/vol down/power, not home/vol up/power)
*Root phone with whatever method
*Flash custom rom with CWRecovery, which you'll get once you root the phone
So....You need to go step by step. Start with flashing the stock rom with Odin, and try to boot the phone normally/make sure that was successful before doing the next two steps. Look for Hopper8's 'Odin troubleshooting' guide if you're having trouble getting a successful Odin flash.
Once you've done that, root the phone & make sure you have CWRecovery working, then flash the custom rom.
The phone boots to the recovery screen after it finishes flashing with ODIN. I put it into download mode, run ODIN, and then it that error screen comes up on the next reboot.
Try flashing the three part firmware linked to in Hopper's thread first (this will wipe the phone). I can't help but think we're missing some info re: what's been done to the phone previously here if the phone is booting into recovery mode after being Odin flashed. It shouldn't do that. After an Odin flash/pass the phone should boot normally, assuming it's not a case of the NAND being corrupted (it probably wouldn't boot into recovery if that was the case/you'd be left with constant bootloop)
I know you've mentioned what's on the sticker on the phone chassis under the battery but are you absolutely 100% sure it's an I9100 ?
MistahBungle said:
I know you've mentioned what's on the sticker on the phone chassis under the battery but are you absolutely 100% sure it's an I9100 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the top of the download mode screen it says "PRODUCT NAME: GT-i9100". I don't know any other way to tell besides this and the sticker on the back. There are no carrier markings anywhere, and this phone was purchased because it had an FM radio, which only the international version had.
And assuming by "Hopper's thread" you mean this one, I can't because the files are no longer available.
In that case, you're stuck with the other suggestions to try in his thread & continuing to flash stock roms until you get a properly successful flash I.E phone boots/works normally. There might be something really obvious here being missed, but because we're not there with you/don't have the phone in front of us it might be difficult to work out.
It's working!
Yay, I got it to work! I flashed a custom kernel (jeboo), which allowed me to get into CWM. From there I sideloaded CM10 and now it's up and running! Only I still have a problem with internal storage... (That was the problem I was trying to fix originally.) Would the next thing to try to fix that be flashing a PIT file? If so, any tips for doing that?
I'm going to put off trying to fix that problem and do it when I get back. For now it works as a phone, and that's what's most important to her anyway. Thanks for your help MistahBungle.
Solved!
For anyone else who comes across this thread, I was able to solve my problem permanently by flashing a new PIT file. I found the correct PIT files for the GT-i9100 in this XDA thread. It seemed my partitions had become messed up long ago, as the phone had been showing a 2GB /data partition and only a 2GB internal SD card partition (which should've been closer to 12GB) for some time.
I choose a 4GB data partition (since I was running low on /data space last time). Oddly enough, booting the stock ROM after flashing the PIT only showed a 2GB data partition. Once I flashed CM10 it showed as 4GB though.

[Q] Flash error - no backup

Hello,
I was able to root my SGSII GT-I9100T using Clockworkmod. I then proceeded to flash Android KitKat but during that procedure, my phone displayed an error with the emmc (or something like that) and the installation was aborted. I can get onto the Recovery screen but I can't get any further, i.e. I can't get to my apps, messages etc.
I do not have a backup of prior to the error in the flash. The top of the screen I am able to see says: CWM-based Recovery v6.0.1.2-Siyah. I have wiped my data and cache with no luck. Everytime I reboot, it goes back to the same screen.
Also, I am with Vodafone Australia, and they do not appear to have a downloadable stock ROM.
I want to get my phone back to prior to rooting, obviously with the default settings (but this doesn't matter).
What should I do? Am I able to repair it?
Yes, you're able to repair it easily. If you don't have any backup, doing a wipe from recovery (which can sometimes fix this) isn't an option for you because obviously you'll lose data if you wipe. I'm also thinking perhaps you've flashed the wrong version of Siyah; you could always re-read (or read) the Siyah threads on here to make doubly sure you've flashed the correct build for your Android version (I don't remember which is which, been ages since I've used Siyah), and if it is a case of you having flashed the wrong build, flashing the right build might well solve your problem & give you a rooted phone. You could also find the PhilZ thread on here, read it, and flash that which should also help you to achieve that aim.
But...if you really want to go back to where you were before you started...
Download a stock rom for Voda AU from Samfirmware (Doesn't matter which one, up to you. You'll need to sign up in order to do so), and flash it following the instructions in the thread titled 'Flash Stock firmware/ROM...' stickied near the top of Q&A.
If you're unable to get a successful Odin flash/or it fails for whatever reason, find Hopper8's 'Odin troubleshooting' guide stickied in the General section & try the stuff in that thread, which should enable you to get through any issues & get a successful Odin flash which will take your phone back to the state it was in before you attempted to root it.
Normally flashing a one part stock rom like this won't involve data loss, but there are never any water-tight guarantees.
Edit - For future reference, if you ever decide to mod your phone even slightly, always back everything up before you do anything. Don't be like the 95% of people on here who do this & then end up in the **** because they didn't back stuff up. The reality is, if you're going to mod, stuff goes wrong eventually for everyone (as you've just found out).
Thank you, I will attempt to flash a stock from that website.
Just to clarify, I first installed CWM (not the Siyah version), and that was working fine. I was able to boot and do whatever. I then proceeded to flash an Android KitKat ROM but this resulted in an error. I then flashed Siyah (which may have made it worse) because from what I read at the time, it could have fixed my problem. So it must have been from the ROM, whether it be my phone being not compatible with it etc., rather than the wrong version of Siyah (although, as I said before, it could have made it worse).
Yep, rom incompatibility. Siyah stopped being developed with ICS, so won't work with KK roms; kernels need to be compatible with the Android version of the rom in question.
Doing what you did is no drama usually, worst case result is normally what happened to you I.E bootloop which won't go away without going back to stock, unless you get a bad flash. It's actually a good learning experience, because now you'll know how to recover if you flash stuff in future
I managed to flash the stock version and thankfully, my phone is back to 'normal'. Luckily I always had intentions on resetting it to factory settings. Indeed it has been a good learning experience :good: Thanks for your help, MistahBungle.
No worries. Glad you got it sorted

Galaxy S2 softbricked... please help

No introductions here, just want to get straight to business... I don't mean to sound so impulsive but I've just been so annoyed by this and I just want a working phone again. I am running Stock Jelly Bean 4.1.2 on the carrier Vodafone (I have not rooted my phone). I have looked around the forums for answers but all of them don't seem to work for me.
This all started over a month ago when I was on Youtube and suddenly the touchscreen froze (the video was still playing) and the buttons were unresponsive. I pulled the battery out and put it back in after a few seconds. When I turned it back on it came to the 'Samsung' animation again and again (a boot loop).
Not knowing that the best option here want to go into recovery and do a factory reset, I went to recovery mode and wiped the cache partition. I rebooted the phone. But this time I was stuck on the 'Samsung Galaxy S2 GT-I9100' screen. I also found out that my recovery mode was not working. It would just have the android robot with a sphere in the middle for ages then it would reboot into the 'GT-I9100' screen. My download mode however, is still functional to this day.
As I've been told, as long as you have access to download mode, there is still hope for recovering your phone and putting it back to normal. So far I have tried:
Installing multiple stock JB ROM's such as the ROM's with LSW and MS2 on the end of the file. I have tried two versions of Odin (1.35 and 3.07) but with no results. The downloads of the ROM were no problem.The flash would be OK up until 'cache.img'. The flash would then freeze then proceed to say a big red 'FAIL'. Note that I have tried to do this on multiple computers while using different USB ports (mainport with no USB hub) for each flash. I have Kies installed but have killed all the processes and opened Odin as an administrator. I have used the original S2 cable that came with my phone and one other data cable, but still no results. I refuse to flash any PIT files because I don't like the risk associated with them. I have yet to flash these firmwares:
LSJ (JB leak), LSD, LSS, LS8, MS7
The drivers might be the problem so I might reinstall them but I don't know how...
Yesterday, I was told by a friend that he had the same problem before and all he did to simply fix this was to download the S2 Jeboo custom kernel (which has CMW with it). He also said rooting the phone would also fix it. I have attempted to flash said kernel with Odin 1.35 when it got stuck when the green bar was full. I pulled out the battery and the USB, put the battery back in and the USB (in a different port) and attempted to flash again. Nothing. I notice now that there is a yellow triangle below the 'GT-I9100' screen when I attempt to boot the phone and that my custom binary count has increased to 2. When I attempt to go into recovery mode the screen flashes twice and just stays in the 'GT-I9100' screen instead of the android robot from earlier.
That's it really. I hope someone can help me in this almost hopeless situation... I have typed about this before on another forum but I had no replies that would help me. I could go to a service centre but my warranty's gone and the yellow triangle might cause some problems. The information from xda-developers has always been solid and reliable... so can someone help me out
Same as everyone else in this situation - find Hopper8's 'Odin troubleshooting' thread stickied in General, and go through the troubleshooting steps in a methodical manner until you get a successful stock flash, as this is the only way you're fixing it.
In your situation/given what you've already tried, I would be downloading the 3 part firmware (the 'leak' you referred to) linked to in the thread & flashing that first, which will wipe your phone & hopefully remove any remnants of what was previously on the phone which may be tripping you up.
This may not be successful first time, your flash may still barf as the one's you've tried so far have; in this case it's a matter of going through as many of the suggestions in the thread as many times as you need to until you meet success (including multiple PCs if necessary). When these are recoverable (and most are), they're often fixed by perseverance.
That thread is 'the bible' in these situations, and there isn't anything else which isn't in the thread that can be suggested in these situations, so you really do need to try absolutely every thing in that thread if you want your phone fixed.
MistahBungle said:
Same as everyone else in this situation - find Hopper8's 'Odin troubleshooting' thread stickied in General, and go through the troubleshooting steps in a methodical manner until you get a successful stock flash, as this is the only way you're fixing it.
In your situation/given what you've already tried, I would be downloading the 3 part firmware (the 'leak' you referred to) linked to in the thread & flashing that first, which will wipe your phone & hopefully remove any remnants of what was previously on the phone which may be tripping you up.
This may not be successful first time, your flash may still barf as the one's you've tried so far have; in this case it's a matter of going through as many of the suggestions in the thread as many times as you need to until you meet success (including multiple PCs if necessary). When these are recoverable (and most are), they're often fixed by perseverance.
That thread is 'the bible' in these situations, and there isn't anything else which isn't in the thread that can be suggested in these situations, so you really do need to try absolutely every thing in that thread if you want your phone fixed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the quick reply, I will look into the guide in more detail and follow the instructions carefully. In regards to the flashing of the JB leak, will this fix the problem of being unable to access recovery mode? And is there any other firmwares you recommend flashing? I really don't want to wipe my phone, as I'm saving the flash of the JB leak as a last resort.
Given what you've already tried & the information you've provided, if I was in your situation I'd be starting with the leak. But that's up to you. If you don't want to do that, you'll need to go through everything in Hopper's thread methodically; eventually you'll get a successful stock flash (and you may end up having to flash the leak to fix it anyway).
Will the leak fix your problem ? Quite possibly, but possibly not. What it will do (if it works) is take you back to a stock setup, so you'll have access to stock recovery. You may end up with bootloop after the flash even though it's successful; in that case you boot into recovery & do a wipe/factory reset.
So far as what stock firmwares to flash, it doesn't matter; they're all essentially the same. The only important thing is you get a firmware on your phone/working. But if it was me in that situation, I'd be sticking with firmwares released by your carrier (flash one of these after the leak if you go down that path).
There isn't a lot else beyond what I've already told you & I can offer; we have that thread as 'the reference' in these situations, neither I nor anyone else here can offer you anything which isn't in that thread. It's the gold standard & covers this issue from every possible angle.

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