So I noticed my data arrows were constantly on last night at about 9pm or so. This was right after I got my 50%warning for the data useage. So I investigate and find nothing running that's isn't usually. Bout 15min later I get the 75% warning so I'm like wtf ? Continue to shut everything down in app manager that I can without shutting down the phone. Now its 45min into it I've restarted the phone 3 times to no avail and I get my 90% warning I call Verizon they say switch to WiFi and turn mobile data off. Which is fine but wasn't gonna work the next day when I left my house n had no WiFi no more. Si looked to see what apps I just installed was eBay mobile I force stoped it still no luck figure that's not it . Then I deleted it anyway figured I can just install it again if I gotta and low and behold it stops. I have no idea how it could pull that off but if anyone is having probably with there new update I'd delete it pronto.
Settings->Mobile data should give you an app by app break down of data usage, you can tell from there what is going on. If there is a large difference between what your phone reports and what Verizon reports, then I suspect their accounting system is messing up; not sure how you get them to cop to it though.
Wow thanx bobcat I didn't know our phones had that capability. That's very useful I think me and many others just learned a new trick. And now looking at that I see eBay was not the culprit but intristingly when I deleted it the data usage stopped.
The settings/ mobile data shows Facebook was the bad app using 4.85gb from just Sept 6-7th. And I called Verizon while this was going on the lady I talked to was really good about it and gave me 10 bucks off my next bill incase I go over the limit and if it goes over 2gb I should call her back shell fix that too. Eh better then nothing.
Ok figured out it was Facebook doing it and killing data. But now while on WiFi with Facebook and eBay still deleted it's going crazy again the arrows for WiFi have been lit solid for most of the time I've had it on ? Is there a way to track apps data usage thru WiFi ?
djxedxd said:
Ok figured out it was Facebook doing it and killing data. But now while on WiFi with Facebook and eBay still deleted it's going crazy again the arrows for WiFi have been lit solid for most of the time I've had it on ? Is there a way to track apps data usage thru WiFi ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe in the same place you view the mobile data usage if you look in settings it has the option to show wi-fi data usage. On most apps I have background data disabled so no apps are using my data without my knowledge and helps with battery too. If no clear answer there, check better battery stats (if you're rooted) and you can see what apps are active or keeping the phone awake.
I've been experiencing unusual data usage too since I've had this phone compared to the sg3. Going to look into what you guys said but someone on G plus mentioned this today too. Something with the g3 I'm assuming?
Ya holy crap anyone who hasn't yet disable that freakin cloud app it used 3.2gb on the WiFi in that bit that I had it on overnight. The big problem with this is I have nothing on there ,never initiated it and further more wouldn't trust my crap in there hands anyway. But ya I went on a disabling spree with all the apps that I could and put them all to not use data in the background unless on WiFi. Lol wish I could kill that too.
One more question when in these settings after I disabled a bunch of stuff I noticed in the mobile data section there is now a part that says (Removed Apps 3.79gb) ? Is this really being used by apps that aren't in there or is it just a representation of disabled apps ?
What's the cloud app
Just says cloud for the app name but it the cloud storage thing they have so you can store files vids pix n such on Verizon's servers and access it from multiple devices.Same idea as all the Stars just had there pix leaked from lol.
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djxedxd said:
Ya holy crap anyone who hasn't yet disable that freakin cloud app it used 3.2gb on the WiFi in that bit that I had it on overnight. The big problem with this is I have nothing on there ,never initiated it and further more wouldn't trust my crap in there hands anyway. But ya I went on a disabling spree with all the apps that I could and put them all to not use data in the background unless on WiFi. Lol wish I could kill that too.
One more question when in these settings after I disabled a bunch of stuff I noticed in the mobile data section there is now a part that says (Removed Apps 3.79gb) ? Is this really being used by apps that aren't in there or is it just a representation of disabled apps ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just showing what was used by one or several apps that you've since removed. Since that is for tracking your data usage on your billing cycle the "removed apps" may go away once the cycle is reset, just there to show what used X.X amount of data. Haven't really noticed yet if "removed apps" goes away, but I would assume so. :good:
I only have a select few apps that sync and don't use any of that cloud nonsense. Maybe if I still had unlimited data I would use it for a few non-sensitive things but it just kills battery and as you noticed hogs your data.
My phone does this crazy dats thing also. Anyone ever watch 1 youtube video and use over 100 mb?
Related
My friend and I both bought the SGS2 two weeks ago approximately. However, just today we noticed that his phone drops 10% (from 100% to 90%) in 2 hours without using the phone at all (it is in stand-by mode). Mine does not. I went into the "Battery usage" portion in settings on both of the phones, and this is what came up. (My phone is to the right, his is to the left).
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Also, why does mine have "Android OS" under the battery usage, and he does not have this listed?
Why does his phone drop faster in battery than mine? Is there something wrong with it? What can it be?
Also, which ways are the best to preserve and save battery on this phone?
I really want to figure out this. Thank you all in advance.
// Steria
Take a look at this post http://softbanksucks.blogspot.com/2011/10/getting-most-out-of-your-battery-on.html
Most likely he has some app that is keeping the phone from sleeping. Read this post to help you narrow down what is causing the issue. I used to have the same problem.
I went to "Applications > Running...", and here is what it says on mine:
Settings
DRM Content
Software update
Task manager
SyncmIDS
FotaClient
Voice command
Digital clock
Social Hub
Social Hub
AccuWeather.com
Yahoo! Finance
Ap Mobile
Google Services
Email
Email
Samsung keypad
(Edit: I turned off/on the phone and FotaClient and Voice command went away, as well as the Task manager. However, when I started Task manager again and went out of it, it said it was still running under the "Still running applications". What I usually do after going out of apps etc, is holding down the back button to get into task manager, and then "exit active applications".... So the question is; how come so many things are still running after I've stopped them via task manager?... How do one close applications properly?)
(Edit: After switching the phone off/on, I went to task manager and went to "RAM", and then "clear" > and it said it closed 16 programs!!!! What kind of programs are these? I tried again after a little while, and it said it closed 2 programs. I did this again, and it said it closed 2 programs...)
Here are the ones on his phone:
MTP Application
Settings
DRM content
Software update
SyncmIDS
Digital clock
Social Hub
Social Hub
AccuWeather.com
Yahoo! Finance
Ap Mobile
Google Services
Email
Email
Samsung keypad
Steria said:
I went to "Applications > Running...", and here is what it says on mine:
Settings
DRM Content
Software update
Task manager
SyncmIDS
FotaClient
Voice command
Digital clock
Social Hub
Social Hub
AccuWeather.com
Yahoo! Finance
Ap Mobile
Google Services
Email
Email
Samsung keypad
(Edit: I turned off/on the phone and FotaClient and Voice command went away, as well as the Task manager. However, when I started Task manager again and went out of it, it said it was still running under the "Still running applications". What I usually do after going out of apps etc, is holding down the back button to get into task manager, and then "exit active applications".... So the question is; how come so many things are still running after I've stopped them via task manager?... How do one close applications properly?)
(Edit: After switching the phone off/on, I went to task manager and went to "RAM", and then "clear" > and it said it closed 16 programs!!!! What kind of programs are these? I tried again after a little while, and it said it closed 2 programs. I did this again, and it said it closed 2 programs...)
Here are the ones on his phone:
MTP Application
Settings
DRM content
Software update
SyncmIDS
Digital clock
Social Hub
Social Hub
AccuWeather.com
Yahoo! Finance
Ap Mobile
Google Services
Email
Email
Samsung keypad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are all running services. Research to see which ones you don't need and then use Titanium backup freeze them all so they don't start.
Also use cpuspy to see if the phone is in fact going to "deep sleep".
Link in my sig of all the apps and what they do.
Only way to stop then its to root and use titanium backup or Gemini app manager to freeze them or Gemini can also change the auto runs of aps.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I think there are some differences in phones.
I could have compared 2 different galaxies. My gf has the white which was bought a month ago and my is black which was bought in May.
I have modified my phone completely and her is stock. Nothing changed and all those stupid hubs and facebooks running.
I have tried to tweak everything possible and still the result is that her phone drops during night (approx 7 hours) about 1% while my phone the best I ever got is 5%, usually even worse.
I have no idea why is this. I remember that when I had the stock running the battery also wasn't so great. So jealous to my gfs phone because she can go about 3 days without charging (yes she also doesn't use it that much but even if I don't touch my phone at all it can last just 2 days). So something fishy in some models I would say.
Your stats seem bad because you barley used your phone during the nine hours. Your friends phone dropped so "fast" because he made a phone call. Nothing unusual.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
CandyAndy said:
I think there are some differences in phones.
I could have compared 2 different galaxies. My gf has the white which was bought a month ago and my is black which was bought in May.
I have modified my phone completely and her is stock. Nothing changed and all those stupid hubs and facebooks running.
I have tried to tweak everything possible and still the result is that her phone drops during night (approx 7 hours) about 1% while my phone the best I ever got is 5%, usually even worse.
I have no idea why is this. I remember that when I had the stock running the battery also wasn't so great. So jealous to my gfs phone because she can go about 3 days without charging (yes she also doesn't use it that much but even if I don't touch my phone at all it can last just 2 days). So something fishy in some models I would say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have more apps logged in that can be doing background data?
Cpuspy and betterbatterystats will pinpoint the issue. All of the Samsung apps suck with wake locks also.
sent from my SC-02C
You should see something like this under good conditions.
sent from my SC-02C
I'm running CM 10.1.2-spyder. Having a really odd (for me) tethering data usage issue. As you can see from the pictures, any time I used my RAZR for tethering Android OS will use data equivalent to over 100% of tethering data. In every screenshot you see, tethering data makes up 92% or more of Android OS data usage. Always above 92% and most are closer to 97-98%.
Essentially, when I tether it causes Android OS to use almost the exact same amount of data used by tether, by itself.
Disturbed with the high Android OS usage, several days ago I turned App Data sync off as well as google's backup option, because I've experienced that issue in the past. I also turned if off on the device I tether to - Nexus 7. Well, that made no difference. Android OS isn't a problem unless I'm tethering - then it becomes a huge problem.
I haven't found an issue similar to this in any of my google searches so far. Might anyone know what's causing this?
If album doesn't show up: http://imgur.com/a/w9Dlm
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Screenshots:
On what I've read you are tethering to your tablet, right? The amount of data could come from both - your tablet including background sync + surfing, and you Razr with its background sync. Then you turned sync off and the amount was almost the same? Sync was turned off on both devices?
Well, seems you have to track your apps by using a data monitor app. And one more thing I remember: Have you installed Adblock Plus app on one or both of your devices? Adblock Plus can EAT your data and is always sending information about you and your "behavior" to its home servers. If you are using it, better remove it immediately. I cannot find these infos in English, only a smaller discussion about it: https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15923
dtrail1 said:
On what I've read you are tethering to your tablet, right? The amount of data could come from both - your tablet including background sync + surfing, and you Razr with its background sync. Then you turned sync off and the amount was almost the same? Sync was turned off on both devices?
Well, seems you have to track your apps by using a data monitor app. And one more thing I remember: Have you installed Adblock Plus app on one or both of your devices? Adblock Plus can EAT your data and is always sending information about you and your "behavior" to its home servers. If you are using it, better remove it immediately. I cannot find these infos in English, only a smaller discussion about it: https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15923
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I am tethering only to my tablet. Background APP DATA sync is turned off on both devices. Other syncs remain such as calendar, chrome, gmail, play music, etc. I wonder sometimes if Play Music is the culprit since it's such a data hog, but as far as I know it should create it's own entry in the Data Usage screen.
I do not have Adblock Plus. Any recommendations on a data monitor app?
Well, it appears I've found my issue: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/mobile/rLrhgZUpmIg/B3k2Y25dq0MJ
I should have been examining my tablet's Data Usage screen to see what it was using instead of only my phone. I still can't fathom why it is doubling up on the data being used by my tablet though...
Essentially, the tablet is quite likely constantly trying to OTA update to 4.3. My phone then takes that data usage and doubles it for whatever reason.
I did some research and my Google Backup is turned off. Still, Android OS is eating away at my bandwidth. 23 MB in 7 days is a lot of data. And I dont have a data package plan on my network so that 23 MB is actually costing me a lot of money.
How do I prevent Android OS from using up so much mobile data?
I am on CM 11 Temasek V48. With Googy Maxx kernel.
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incognitonk said:
I did some research and my Google Backup is turned off. Still, Android OS is eating away at my bandwidth. 23 MB in 7 days is a lot of data. And I dont have a data package plan on my network so that 23 MB is actually costing me a lot of money.
How do I prevent Android OS from using up so much mobile data?
I am on CM 11 Temasek V48. With Googy Maxx kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Switch background data off for android os
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
JellyYogurt said:
Switch background data off for android os
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not possible to do that to Android OS.
The options isnt there.
Dun go inside. Just go to the general page of data usage and press menu. There shld be a restrict background usage or sth. And there's one thing I dun get. Why r u using 3G when u said u dun have it free?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
JellyYogurt said:
Dun go inside. Just go to the general page of data usage and press menu. There shld be a restrict background usage or sth. And there's one thing I dun get. Why r u using 3G when u said u dun have it free?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing that restricts background data to all the apps. So, itd probably prevent me from getting my emails and messages. And these messages are the reason I'm using 3G even though I dont get it for free. (I leave it on 2G most of the time, until I decide to browse the web, then I switch it to 3G.)
Find the apps / process that are using data and freeze one by one with Titanium .
Check Mobile tracker first .
JJEgan said:
Find the apps / process that are using data and freeze one by one with Titanium .
Check Mobile tracker first .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The built in data usage too just says "Android OS". I cant really freeze that with titanium backup,
I am gonna try some different data tracker apps and see if they can give me any details.
Whats "Mobile tracker"?
incognitonk said:
The built in data usage too just says "Android OS". I cant really freeze that with titanium backup,
I am gonna try some different data tracker apps and see if they can give me any details.
Whats "Mobile tracker"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will say what process if you double tap android os
JJEgan said:
It will say what process if you double tap android os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesnt. A single tap brings me to the page in the second screen cap I posted. I cant double tap it.
Possible solutions
incognitonk said:
No it doesnt. A single tap brings me to the page in the second screen cap I posted. I cant double tap it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1- Have you tried AFWall+ from the Play Store? It's a free firewall app that can restrict internet usage (wifi and/or cellular) by apps. You can select "All apps" under the WiFi column and enable the firewall. This will prevent any app from using your cellular (3g or gprs) data. Only your selected apps can access 3G/GPRS. You need root for this though.
or
2- You can simply turn off the Data from "Mobile Network" section. This way your phone will only use data if you have a wifi connection.
~ RazorMC
incognitonk said:
No it doesnt. A single tap brings me to the page in the second screen cap I posted. I cant double tap it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep looks like i hit android system when double tapping .
incognitonk said:
I did some research and my Google Backup is turned off. Still, Android OS is eating away at my bandwidth. 23 MB in 7 days is a lot of data. And I dont have a data package plan on my network so that 23 MB is actually costing me a lot of money.
How do I prevent Android OS from using up so much mobile data?
I am on CM 11 Temasek V48. With Googy Maxx kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I faced the same problem, issue was somewhat with auto backup of data, sync of app data & people details in google account,
BUT the main culprit in my case was uTorrent application.
Even though there was no torrent added to it, i didn't even opened it,
it was using 1GB data daily on WiFi and in data usage it was coming under Android OS usage. I uninstalled it, everything went back to normal.
So try to look for such apps which eat up your data in background, it may not be an error of android OS as such.
Hope this helps, Press THANKS if it did help you
Enjoy
KaaliRaat said:
I faced the same problem, issue was somewhat with auto backup of data, sync of app data & people details in google account,
BUT the main culprit in my case was uTorrent application.
Even though there was no torrent added to it, i didn't even opened it,
it was using 1GB data daily on WiFi and in data usage it was coming under Android OS usage. I uninstalled it, everything went back to normal.
So try to look for such apps which eat up your data in background, it may not be an error of android OS as such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive firewalled any app that I dont want using mobile network. (Like games and stuff).
My problem actually resolved on its own. Maybe it was something from the Google side of things. .I don't see that high android OS data usage anymore.
Thanks for the tip anyway.
I have had this phone phone close to when it came out and my battery life has not been all that greati usually get clost to 2 1/2 to sometimes 3 hours SOT :-/. i keep seeing the main drains on the top from screen,android,android system,cell standby,google play services. when i was looking at Google play services i explored more and went into the google now settings accounts and privacy and turned off things i didnt need. also turned of card notifications and now google play services seem to be using less battery. has anyone else done this to save battery consumption? so far i have gotten 2 hours SOT and battery level is at 66% with screen brightness set to auto. I also reset my phone once after reading some battery fixes.
Hi, here my experience.
I really love this phone, but I am really frustrated by battery life. I never get more than 2.5 hours of SoT.
I like a smartphone being "smart" so I usually have everything up (I mean sync, localization, etc. Usually I turn off Bluetooth, nfc and GPS because I don't need them), but with this phone I have to turn off Google history location and uninstall Facebook app and Facebook messenger app. Even with these modifications I have poor battery life and the problem is in "Google play services" and "Google app", they maintain active my phone even in airplane mode!
The screenshot are referring to a situation (I still have 72%) with 10hours on battery, but with ~8 hours of airplane mode. These apps "keep active" the phone for ~4.5hours!
P.s.I am sorry if I don't wait until 0% to get more accurate screenshots, but I don't have too much time during the day and I am really frustrated about the situation
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Inviato dal mio LG-H960 utilizzando Tapatalk
It could be account sync? Have you tried looking under the accounts to see if there is some sync getting stuck?
In my case, I think the main sucker is location. I use to have it turned off (and also Google Now), and only enable when needed. With this, I use to get 4-5 hours SoT. Location/GPS is a huge sucker.
i figured out that in my google now settings /account privacy/google activity controls every was turned on and i just turned them off and it fixed my problem
batman562 said:
i figured out that in my google now settings /account privacy/google activity controls every was turned on and i just turned them off and it fixed my problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly you turn of in google activity's. Thank you in advanced
i turned off web & app activity,device information, voice and audio activity,youtube searchhistory, youtube watch history , google location history which are all of them. i do not need google to keep track of everything for me. google cards already does a good job introducing me to articles i can read. i did not play much with these to see which was keeping the phone awake.
the post above helped out a little bit but I tried something new and it seemed to have help out my stand by time and overall usage. when you go to settings battery&power saving then usage click on google play services and at the bottom it shows included packages it shows a list remember those.
go into app settings>all>google play services+google contacts sync+google account manager+google services framework+google backup transport> turned off notifications
batman562 said:
the post above helped out a little bit but I tried something new and it seemed to have help out my stand by time and overall usage. when you go to settings battery&power saving then usage click on google play services and at the bottom it shows included packages it shows a list remember those.
go into app settings>all>google play services+google contacts sync+google account manager+google services framework+google backup transport> turned off notifications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about functionality when turning off 'Notifications' for those services? Do you still have contacts sync working? Have you tried to create a contact in your phone and check on a computer at contacts.google.com if the new one is there after 1 or 2 minutes? And the other way, creating one on the computer gets synched to phone?
Thanks.
when i restored my phone back to stock I did everything normally to have a fully working phone. after that i went down the list in the settings to customize it to my usage. when i got down to apps and turned off notifications i still had contacts saved on my phone it was like nothing different happened other then getting doze like battery saving on my phone running stock lg lolipop
batman562 said:
when i restored my phone back to stock I did everything normally to have a fully working phone. after that i went down the list in the settings to customize it to my usage. when i got down to apps and turned off notifications i still had contacts saved on my phone it was like nothing different happened other then getting doze like battery saving on my phone running stock lg lolipop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good find. I too was getting 2.5 or less SOT. I went back to unrooted stock and was able to get 4 hours 20 min with no tweaking at all. Im back to stock root and am able to maintain 3 hours SOT but this gives me inspiration! Thanks for the tip, I'm trying this and see if my mileage increases.
hello,
This has been driving me crazy recently.
I do not want to install google maps new updates from play store.
I have all apps set to "do not auto update apps", currently i can see that there is a new google maps update pending but something odd is happening.
I am happy with version 10.60.1, which normally looks like this:
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But recently for some reason maps layout changed to this:
and drives me mad, i have not updated of course and this seems to happen automatically even after a few hours now or immediately after. So i usually roll back to factory version and then force an installation with APK mirror, which woks well for a while but not anymore. The first time i had the installation from google play original version etc and this happened all of a sudden.
Which is the "new" layout and is driving me mad, as i really don't like it and you cannot go fullscreen in walk mode if you don't do navigation which is awful, plain crap. Would it be possible to know:
1. Why is this happening? are they force feeding us updates even though you have updates blocked?
2. When it does this sneaky update, why when you go to about > google maps > it still shows 10.60.1
3. CAN I BLOCK THIS FOR GOOD?
Many thanks to anybody for some feedback/help.
Best,
Gabrio
Set Playstore to wifi download only; keep wifi off.
Or disable Playstore.
heh, i have set it to
Auto update apps: DON'T auto-update apps.
hmhm disabling playstore is a bit extreme, would be good to block maps updating only and stick to that version i like.. now seems i cannot put it back.
it's either the aging version 9 or after installing 10.6.1 it just goes back to that crappy new look
Playstore is crapware. Always running in the background.
3rd method; block with Karma Firewall.
If you are rooted, Detach the app from the playstore.
See: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-tool-temefi-comprehensive-system-administration.3806260/
thank you - i gave a go to the Karma Firewall and something interesting happened...
downgraded maps to factory, installed Karma, blocked Play store, put back app - nothing it still did the nasty silent change.
So i did another thing, i removed it again, then went airplane mode this time, installed the app and it was perfect, NO silent change, but obviously not feasible to use airplane mode lol.
then went normal mode (with Karma on), and it still did the nasty upgrade!
so i removed it a 3rd time, with the block in play store still (no change), no airplane mode and this time seems to stick, no silent upgrade and it's as i wanted to be.... only time will tell now and completely blocking play store is not ideal either, sometimes you need it but peace for now.
What i don't really understand is: my wife has the exact same phone, exact same version of the app, although we rarely use her phone driving etc, and they do not push the silent upgrade, i wonder why?
Is that because of usage patterns so they can see i am more "active" so they give me that new ****?
thanks again for input!
DiamondJohn said:
If you are rooted, Detach the app from the playstore.
See: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-tool-temefi-comprehensive-system-administration.3806260/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, i will check it out
On most phones, your GPS is WiFI assisted, so turning it on & off will be best as you move in and out of registered WiFI that you can connect with. You probably would not wish to block the playstore completely, as that will also stop all your other apps from updating.
People have the same problem you have with Googles Maps, but with Googles YouTube. People install Vanced (ie no in-video ads) and detach YouTube to stop Googles YouTube from auto updating. Some people have tried all sorts of things, and it still gets updated, while others simply need to turn off the selected apps auto-update )although even these people lose it when the playstore updates itself). The Playstore is a black-box, so its hard to know why different people experience different results.
I have used my detach for a long time on YouTube (and a few other apps) without any updates breaking through, and so have many others. The main thing to ensure is that Maps is attached correctly before you detach it. Which in your case, sounds very much the case.
Google maps is a new one to me for detaching, so I would be interested to here how you go. I am pretty certain the detach will work, just never heard it being used for Maps. Totally not the answer for YOU, but I personally went for a different navigation software (Waze in my case). As google maps always put me on main roads with a higher risk of congestion. But for that, its a lot easier to miss a turn, into a tiny side street.
great thank you - so far so good, the block on the Karma firewall seems to hold. have to get used not to use play store anymore but im happy gmaps is not updated.
i've heard good things about Waze, if gmaps still bothers me, it's out of the windows, cheers
thanks everybody for info!