So the Hero's from England won't work on USA 3G bands correct? Does anyone know when a Hero will come out that is capable?
yes that is correct, 3g in the usa will not work on the hero. the hero will come out on october 11th for United States, many indications are hinting that the carrier will be sprint
does this lie in the hardware?
Sorry to bump this thread, but as I asked earlier. Does the 3G settings lie in the hardware, or is it customizable/changeable somehow?
No, there is nothing to "unlock" a non 1700 frequency phone to make it capable of accepting 3G speeds on T-mobile
I've no idea whether the radio in the Hero is capable of supporting T-Mobiles 3G 1700Mhz band, but I do personally find it hard to believe that HTC would manufacture 2 different GSM Heros (as opposed to a GSM and CDMA one) which differ only by the bands they support since the additional cost involved in having 2 separate production lines is probably far greater than the incremental cost of using a more capable radio in all GSM Heros.
My G1 is a US T-Mobile G1, and it works fine with the 3G bands here in Europe. In addition, if you look up the specs of the Magic on HTCs website, it does not mention the 1700MHz band, but the MyTouch 3G does support and it is essentially a Magic.
This would lead me to believe that it is likely to be a firmware rather than hardware restriction - only time will tell!
Regards,
Dave
Hero coming to T-Mobile USA
By the looks of things at http://www.tmonews.com and with a bit of url manipulation I was able to navigate to this pretty convicing and helpful page.
Anyone have any better resources?
foxmeister said:
...My G1 is a US T-Mobile G1, and it works fine with the 3G bands here in Europe. ...
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Click to collapse
yeah, but the G1 was designed specifically for t-mobile and so the G1 itself was built to support the bands for all t-mobile networks in one device.
And as the european ones nearly all use 2100mhz, that is a slightly different case.
and as for the URL manipulation, that doesn;t always mean anything.. with the right manipulation, you can get it to show updates for one device on a page titled for a totally different model. however, it would be good if you are right!!
G1 = 1700 and 2100 MHz
Hero = 900 and 2100 MHz
So both work fine in europe (2100) but only the G1 will work with T-mo US (1700). Considering that there is no reasonable prepaid 3g data in the US anywhere, not many European travellers will miss the 1700MHz capability of their cell phone.
The choice of the 900MHz band is a bit odd, seems like the only reasonably-sized market for that would be Australia. At least it'll work when you are down-under ;-)
at the moment yeah, but many European networks are pushing to get access to the 900mhz frequency and use it for 3G once 2G gets turned off.
apparently it has better penetration into buildings or something...don't quite understand the reasons why it should be better for that, but the UK networks certainly want a bit of that action....
rhedgehog said:
at the moment yeah, but many European networks are pushing to get access to the 900mhz frequency and use it for 3G once 2G gets turned off. apparently it has better penetration into buildings or something...
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Click to collapse
As a rule of thumb, the lower the frequency (longer wavelength) the deeper it is going to penetrate. Thats why you can listen to the radio inside whereas you can't see the sun (visible light=much higher frequency).
cool.
I understand now. i suppose it kinda makes sense as well, lower wavelengths tend to have more power anyway,so i shoulda figured that out....
Has anyone tried using one of the white unlocked Lumia 920 from Clove (I guess the ones from Expansys are the same) on an LTE network?
Specifically, do you have the "4G" option in the "highest connection speed" settings?
In my case, although I am using an LTE SIM with an LTE network on a supported band, I only have "2G" and "3G" options in the Highest Connection Speed settings. So normally it is only connecting over HSPA. Through playing around a lot with scanning LTE bands with the Field Test tool (##3282#), I can sometimes get the device to connect to LTE, after which it works perfectly on LTE until reboot. But it's not really a long-term solution.
The default firmware on my device is country variant "CV GB SW Variant ID 276 v03" which (apart from the version number) seems to be the same firmware as that sold by Orange / T-Mobile in the UK (i.e. for 3G networks).
I was thinking about trying to flash the EE firmware, but concerned this could create other issues (such as end up locking the phone to EE, or to certain LTE bands, or something...). Any thoughts appreciated.
You don't mention where you are, but that might help respondents.
As you may know, the LTE bands are different between the NA and Europe. The LTE Bands listed on the international version are 800/900/1800/2100/2600 while the NA(Rogers & AT&T) version has 700/850/1700/1900/2100.
Are you sure you are connecting to the LTE bands? Do you have an LTE SIM installed?
tomdjp said:
Has anyone tried using one of the white unlocked Lumia 920 from Clove (I guess the ones from Expansys are the same) on an LTE network?
Specifically, do you have the "4G" option in the "highest connection speed" settings?
In my case, although I am using an LTE SIM with an LTE network on a supported band, I only have "2G" and "3G" options in the Highest Connection Speed settings. So normally it is only connecting over HSPA. Through playing around a lot with scanning LTE bands with the Field Test tool (##3282#), I can sometimes get the device to connect to LTE, after which it works perfectly on LTE until reboot. But it's not really a long-term solution.
The default firmware on my device is country variant "CV GB SW Variant ID 276 v03" which (apart from the version number) seems to be the same firmware as that sold by Orange / T-Mobile in the UK (i.e. for 3G networks).
I was thinking about trying to flash the EE firmware, but concerned this could create other issues (such as end up locking the phone to EE, or to certain LTE bands, or something...). Any thoughts appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at this offivial Blog post from Nokia.
http://goo.gl/L2eiy
They basically saying that even-thought the new Lumias are LTE ready they will required a software update to turn LTE ON.
The information on that is very limited as Nokia didn't specify ANY details on how they will push this OTA.
What happens if you have an unlock device and use it in a different country of its origins? How they will push the update under what criteria?
Is the update is driven by the SIM ID? They will update the OS and turn ON LTE depending the SIM region or the device IMEI region?? Nobody knows...
Even worst there is a rumor that the latest Snapdragon S4 is supporting all 9 LTE bands at ONCE and the software just enable the appropriate ones, its programmable from the firmware. If this is true, then Nokia is committing a suicide here, they can simply program WP8 to recognize the SIM ID and turn ON/OFF LTE Bands depending the Network. Going with OTAs across different devices and regions will be a mess.
nMIK-3 said:
Have a look at this offivial Blog post from Nokia.
http://goo.gl/L2eiy
They basically saying that even-thought the new Lumias are LTE ready they will required a software update to turn LTE ON.
The information on that is very limited as Nokia didn't specify ANY details on how they will push this OTA.
What happens if you have an unlock device and use it in a different country of its origins? How they will push the update under what criteria?
Is the update is driven by the SIM ID? They will update the OS and turn ON LTE depending the SIM region or the device IMEI region?? Nobody knows...
Even worst there is a rumor that the latest Snapdragon S4 is supporting all 9 LTE bands at ONCE and the software just enable the appropriate ones, its programmable from the firmware. If this is true, then Nokia is committing a suicide here, they can simply program WP8 to recognize the SIM ID and turn ON/OFF LTE Bands depending the Network. Going with OTAs across different devices and regions will be a mess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are international versions that HAVE ALL 9 LTE bands enabled and also petaband 3G.
For example in Germany:
http://www.nokia.com/de-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
or in Singapore:
http://www.nokia.com/sg-en/products/phone/lumia920/specifications/ (expand where it says "Hardware")
or also in Switzerland:
http://www.nokia.com/ch-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
I think there might be a good chance that you can unlock those extra bands on international versions (RM-821) that have them disabled by flashing a different firmware version. However this is just me thinking out loud so please don't blame me if it doesn't work or if it breaks your phone!
However I would strong discourage you from flashing an RM-821 firmware to an RM-820 (North American version) as I know that sb around here almost broke his phone by doing so.
Hi all
Thanks for your replies so far.
Right now I am using the phone in Japan, where there are three carriers with Band 1 (2100 MHz) LTE networks. I only tried one carrier so far, and yes it is an LTE SIM. As mentioned, I can actually connect to LTE and have used it for several hours, it's just necessary to use an unreliable trick (with ##3282#) to get the phone to see the LTE network. This seems related to the fact there is no 4G option in my highest connection settings.
Thanks for the heads-up on the OTA updates, agreed it's not clear how this will work at all...
Regarding the LTE band support, personally (although it's just my intuition) I think the lists of 9 LTE supported bands on those regional Nokia websites are probably in error (it wouldn't be the first time). Normally the most reliable source in Nokia's website is Nokia Developers, which clearly shows five bands for global RM-821 (1, 3, 7, 8, 20) and four bands for AT&T RM-820 (2, 4, 5, 17).
While the Snapdragon baseband may be able to support all 9 bands, the most difficult part of the design is the RF - filters, amplifiers, etc. So I imagine different RF chains are used in the two variants to support these specific bands.
Again, if anyone has the unlocked RM-821 and tried with an LTE SIM, if you could confirm if the 4G setting is available in highest connection settings, it would be much appreciated.
karlmueller said:
There are international versions that HAVE ALL 9 LTE bands enabled and also petaband 3G.
For example in Germany:
http://www.nokia.com/de-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
or in Singapore:
http://www.nokia.com/sg-en/products/phone/lumia920/specifications/ (expand where it says "Hardware")
or also in Switzerland:
http://www.nokia.com/ch-de/produkte/smartphones-und-handys/lumia920/technische-daten/ (expand where it says "Basisdaten")
I think there might be a good chance that you can unlock those extra bands on international versions (RM-821) that have them disabled by flashing a different firmware version. However this is just me thinking out loud so please don't blame me if it doesn't work or if it breaks your phone!
However I would strong discourage you from flashing an RM-821 firmware to an RM-820 (North American version) as I know that sb around here almost broke his phone by doing so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the same thing on PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, however in another discussion we verified (at least for the German model) that even thought the Nokia German website states PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, in the retail Box it only mentions QuadBand 3G (AWS missing) and PentaBand LTE.
With the Canadian model being PentaBand and Snapdragon's S4 Specs claiming that is fully supporting it, along with the programmable LTE, we really have no clue of whats really going on until Nokia, or anyone else clarify it...
I have a very bad feeling that the all 920s are PentaBand 3G and support all bands of LTE with programmable software but Nokia for some reason is locking specific bands on specific models/regions.
Hopefully in time we will clarify everything and hopefully its sooner rather than later..
nMIK-3 said:
I thought the same thing on PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, however in another discussion we verified (at least for the German model) that even thought the Nokia German website states PentaBand 3G and 9 Bands LTE, in the retail Box it only mentions QuadBand 3G (AWS missing) and PentaBand LTE.
With the Canadian model being PentaBand and Snapdragon's S4 Specs claiming that is fully supporting it, along with the programmable LTE, we really have no clue of whats really going on until Nokia, or anyone else clarify it...
I have a very bad feeling that the all 920s are PentaBand 3G and support all bands of LTE with programmable software but Nokia for some reason is locking specific bands on specific models/regions.
Hopefully in time we will clarify everything and hopefully its sooner rather than later..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Different frequency bands require different antenna design. It is probably very difficult to design an antenna that can satisfy all LTE bands even though the chipset can support it. So, instead, Nokia is probably going to selectively make different hardware with different antenna design to fit a specific region. Apple iPhone 5 uses the similar Qualcomm chipset and it only supports very limited LTE bands for international version.
foxbat121 said:
Different frequency bands require different antenna design. It is probably very difficult to design an antenna that can satisfy all LTE bands even though the chipset can support it. So, instead, Nokia is probably going to selectively make different hardware with different antenna design to fit a specific region. Apple iPhone 5 uses the similar Qualcomm chipset and it only supports very limited LTE bands for international version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For 3G PentaBand is now standard in almost all chips and since the Canadian variant comes with PentaBand on board and the fact that is standard on the S4 I really see no reason of why Nokia will order a custom version of the S4 to just physically take off the AWS. It doesn't make any sense, so if its missing, most likely is turn off in firmware.
For the LTE. Qualcomm introduced a revolutionary technology called Software Defined Radio or simply SDR and the Snapdragon S4 Plus MSM8960 chip which is inside the Lumia 920, supports that technology. With SDR the chipset support all LTE bands from a low to high frequency, it can work in everything between, of course not at the same time, the software programs what frequency the antenna should be set.
If the Lumia 920 and its S4 really have SDR technology, they it will make sense for Nokia to have the firmware deride what LTE to make available to the user, by reading the SIM region and not providing individual updated per region, or based on device product number.
This finally solves a major issue for the manufactures because they do not have to build customs chips for specific countries, the software simply programs it. If you Google it you can find a lot of info regarding SDR. Of course we are not in the engineering team of the Lumia 920 line and its obvious whatever we say here is based on theory and specs that are available to us.
nMIK-3 said:
For 3G PentaBand is now standard in almost all chips and since the Canadian variant comes with PentaBand on board and the fact that is standard on the S4 I really see no reason of why Nokia will order a custom version of the S4 to just physically take off the AWS. It doesn't make any sense, so if its missing, most likely is turn off in firmware.
For the LTE. Qualcomm introduced a revolutionary technology called Software Defined Radio or simply SDR and the Snapdragon S4 Plus MSM8960 chip which is inside the Lumia 920, supports that technology. With SDR the chipset support all LTE bands from a low to high frequency, it can work in everything between, of course not at the same time, the software programs what frequency the antenna should be set.
If the Lumia 920 and its S4 really have SDR technology, they it will make sense for Nokia to have the firmware deride what LTE to make available to the user, by reading the SIM region and not providing individual updated per region, or based on device product number.
This finally solves a major issue for the manufactures because they do not have to build customs chips for specific countries, the software simply programs it. If you Google it you can find a lot of info regarding SDR. Of course we are not in the engineering team of the Lumia 920 line and its obvious whatever we say here is based on theory and specs that are available to us.
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Click to collapse
If you understand radio technology at all, you should know the most important part that make all things work is the radio antenna, not the chipset. The chipset itself can't receive or transmit radio signal without a proper antenna. Try to disconnect your car radio antenna and see how many stations you can receive
foxbat121 said:
If you understand radio technology at all, you should know the most important part that make all things work is the radio antenna, not the chipset. The chipset itself can't receive or transmit radio signal without a proper antenna. Try to disconnect your car radio antenna and see how many stations you can receive
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Click to collapse
We're going a bit off-topic from the thread here, but you're right - SDR defines the baseband, not the RF components.
If you look at Nokia's FCC filing for the RM-821, you can see it has two cellular antennas ("main" and "MIMO") for each of two bands ("HB" high-band and "LB" low-band). Presumably LB is used for bands below 1 GHz or so, while HB is used for bands above. So you can see it's not necessary to have different antennas for every band - bands 1 to 4 (including AWS) could also use the same antennas, for example.
However, each band needs its own RF filters to prevent interference from neighbouring channels, and also needs amplifiers that have flat gain over those bands. These RF components are usually band specific, relatively bulky and expensive, and there are some challenges to use several RF chains in parallel. To my understanding these are the limiting factors that explain why a given device tends to support maximum 4 or 5 LTE channels.
tomdjp said:
We're going a bit off-topic from the thread here, but you're right - SDR defines the baseband, not the RF components.
If you look at Nokia's FCC filing for the RM-821, you can see it has two cellular antennas ("main" and "MIMO") for each of two bands ("HB" high-band and "LB" low-band). Presumably LB is used for bands below 1 GHz or so, while HB is used for bands above. So you can see it's not necessary to have different antennas for every band - bands 1 to 4 (including AWS) could also use the same antennas, for example.
However, each band needs its own RF filters to prevent interference from neighbouring channels, and also needs amplifiers that have flat gain over those bands. These RF components are usually band specific, relatively bulky and expensive, and there are some challenges to use several RF chains in parallel. To my understanding these are the limiting factors that explain why a given device tends to support maximum 4 or 5 LTE channels.
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Click to collapse
You nail it.
foxbat121 said:
If you understand radio technology at all, you should know the most important part that make all things work is the radio antenna, not the chipset. The chipset itself can't receive or transmit radio signal without a proper antenna. Try to disconnect your car radio antenna and see how many stations you can receive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that a joke?? I am spending my time explaining what SDR is and I am getting that respond??
I am assuming that I am talking with a person that knows at least a modern chipset like the S4 package contains all the antennas for GSM/WCDMA/LTE a separate antenna for Bluetooth and Wifi, GPS (S4 also includes GLONASS), the CPU and the Adreno GPU.
All the above come in the same tinny chip that in the size of your nail. And all this is called the "chipset". Qualcomm does not use a separate antenna anymore its integrated to the chipset.
nMIK-3 said:
Is that a joke?? I am spending my time explaining what SDR is and I am getting that respond??
I am assuming that I am talking with a person that knows at least a modern chipset like the S4 package contains all the antennas for GSM/WCDMA/LTE a separate antenna for Bluetooth and Wifi, GPS (S4 also includes GLONASS), the CPU and the Adreno GPU.
All the above come in the same tinny chip that in the size of your nail. And all this is called the "chipset". Qualcomm does not use a separate antenna anymore its integrated to the chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect, that's not right - the antennas and RF components are external to the chipset.
Go and get the SAR compliance test report for Nokia 920 from the FCC's website, and you can see diagrams showing the external antennas for cellular, WLAN/BT and GPS which are positioned in various places inside the phone's chassis (btw, the LB MIMO antenna is about 7 cm long!)
Or go and check out the iFixit teardown for iPhone 5 and you can see the same kind of thing...
tomdjp said:
With respect, that's not right - the antennas and RF components are external to the chipset.
Go and get the SAR compliance test report for Nokia 920 from the FCC's website, and you can see diagrams showing the external antennas for cellular, WLAN/BT and GPS which are positioned in various places inside the phone's chassis (btw, the LB MIMO antenna is about 7 cm long!)
Or go and check out the iFixit teardown for iPhone 5 and you can see the same kind of thing...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. Many manufactures are placing antenna extensions and putting additional GPS censor in more practical areas.
The actual GSM/WCDMA/LTE modem WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS for Qualacom solutions are placed inside the chipset.
Please see http://www.qualcomm.com/chipsets/snapdragon for more information.
4g / LTE
tomdjp said:
Has anyone tried using one of the white unlocked Lumia 920 from Clove (I guess the ones from Expansys are the same) on an LTE network?
Specifically, do you have the "4G" option in the "highest connection speed" settings?
In my case, although I am using an LTE SIM with an LTE network on a supported band, I only have "2G" and "3G" options in the Highest Connection Speed settings. So normally it is only connecting over HSPA. Through playing around a lot with scanning LTE bands with the Field Test tool (##3282#), I can sometimes get the device to connect to LTE, after which it works perfectly on LTE until reboot. But it's not really a long-term solution.
The default firmware on my device is country variant "CV GB SW Variant ID 276 v03" which (apart from the version number) seems to be the same firmware as that sold by Orange / T-Mobile in the UK (i.e. for 3G networks).
I was thinking about trying to flash the EE firmware, but concerned this could create other issues (such as end up locking the phone to EE, or to certain LTE bands, or something...). Any thoughts appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I go into into field test mode and it says 4g then asks what LTE Band. My phone shows 4G not LTE in top left... is it LTE or 3G+?
Does anyone know what the different bands stand for? (band 5 etc) under the field service menu?
zok-star said:
Does anyone know what the different bands stand for? (band 5 etc) under the field service menu?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely they are LTE bands (e.g. band 5 = 850 MHz), but as you probably noticed they don't completely match with the LTE band support of the device. Keep in mind this field test program was probably thrown together by Nokia's R&D guys for internal testing only (not for consumers), so could be a legacy of earlier testing, another device variant, or some other reason...
Anyway, it seems fine to keep this setting on Automatic.
dougwallace said:
I go into into field test mode and it says 4g then asks what LTE Band. My phone shows 4G not LTE in top left... is it LTE or 3G+?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Doug, could you share what version of the Lumia 920 you have, and which firmware?
As mentioned in my mail above, there seems no problem to leave the 4G band on automatic, and the bands available to be selected don't seem relevant. (My device picks up Band 1 LTE networks even though band 1 is not in the list).
Regarding 4G vs LTE, my device (unlocked UK CV) shows 4G in the top left when it is connected to LTE. I assume this can be changed by Nokia depending on the operator's requirement (esp in the US where 4G means HSPA...). You can be sure you're on LTE by going back to the field test menu, selecting GSM option, then looking at "Radio Access Technology". If you're on LTE, it should say LTE there.
tomdjp said:
Likely they are LTE bands (e.g. band 5 = 850 MHz), but as you probably noticed they don't completely match with the LTE band support of the device. Keep in mind this field test program was probably thrown together by Nokia's R&D guys for internal testing only (not for consumers), so could be a legacy of earlier testing, another device variant, or some other reason...
Anyway, it seems fine to keep this setting on Automatic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've kept mine on all automatic and i have noticed it switch to 4G at times, but then when i go to use it, it'll flick back to 3G... I'll need to test this in CBD sometime this week.
I got my device from clove, but im in Australia on Telstra 4G network. They use 1800mhz.
zok-star said:
I've kept mine on all automatic and i have noticed it switch to 4G at times, but then when i go to use it, it'll flick back to 3G... I'll need to test this in CBD sometime this week.
I got my device from clove, but im in Australia on Telstra 4G network. They use 1800mhz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, yes better to test in CBD where there's strong LTE signal.
In your Settings => Mobile Network, do you have a "4G" option under "Highest connection speed", or is it 2G and 3G only?