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Just wanted to open up a thread here to see what we can do about battery calibration issues.
Not sure, but I read around that people are getting phone shut downs at the 10%-15% ranges.
When in actual fact it should be somewhere around the 1%-5% range?
Was wondering if there is some possibility in coding the phone to read the battery state better? Thus, eliminating the need for calibrating the battery through tradition means (ie: wiping, charging, etc)
Thoughts?
EDITS:
We've managed to figure out huge boundaries for the battery.
There are currently two ways to get your battery into "learn mode" - which will adjust the values of your battery to accurately reflect it's "age" and mAh tracking. This will lead to a fix for those of you who are currently facing issues with the battery shutting down anytime before the 1% mark.
1st fix:
1) Drain battery
2) Just as the battery hits "Shutting Down", plug in your charger
3) Let the phone power down
4) DO NOT TURN ON THE PHONE
5) Let it charge up overnight or something along the lines of 4-6 hours, which should ensure it will be fully charged
6) Power up, your phone should be calibrated and will now shut off at 1%
2nd fix:
Head over to the Battery Calibration Tool Thread which spawned off from the discussions here!
>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765609
For those who have been following the thread and wonder what your status_reg value mean theloginwithnoname has kindly provided us with some datasheets and translations, which you can get with the following links:
Binary Conversion: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8013370&postcount=548
Then refer to Page 25 of the following datasheet: http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS2784.pdf
OR you can try out mtw4991's method to get learn mode done with the battery app that's been created out of this brainstorm thread.
The link to his method is > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9583271&postcount=340
I began this thread in other to simply find a fix for our current battery % meter. Basically, users (myself included) were having a problem with inaccurate battery % readings. Some N1's would shut down above 1% and this would leave many guessing when the battery would give out.
Needless to say, here at XDA - we managed to find the fixes. ;-)
And of course, we decided to take it to the next level.
How can we now push more out of our batteries?
RogerPodacter and theloginwithnoname have been working endlessly learning and understanding the how the battery registry works and together with dvgrhl they're finalizing a battery mod app which will help the N1 cope with the "learn mode" and changes. So do thank them for the great work they've been pushing out with! =)
They've helped us hammer out all the core details concerning the battery understanding, values, binaries, and we're wading through the mess to push the limits on the batteries (short of blowing them up as usual of course).
Be patient if the app isn't ready yet. And if you're a n00b, please don't mess around with the registry values and such if you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.
No one is gonna give a rat's poopoo if you blow up your phone and set your house on fire and gremlins kidnap your toes.
Peace out.
This thread is and methodology has served its purpose and many of us from this thread have moved on over to the Battery Calibration TOOL thread. The methods still work, but so do the newer methods at the tool thread, which I personally find is much easier and better.
If you'd like to use the manual method, it'll still work.
For those more interested in the newer method and I encourage you to do so - head on over through this link > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765609
+1
It happened to me yesterday. I am playing with my phone and I needed to check an important address on Google Maps, so I was thinking "Oh great I still have 9% battery" and then all of a sudden BOOM. It powered off. I mean seriously WHY have those extra 9% if I am never going to use them. So In reality my phone battery is like 80%
100%-(first 10% which drain in like 5-6minutes) - 10% that I never use cause the phone shuts off = 80% BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT COOL
happened to me on cm 5.0.7.1 about 7% battery
I guess this would be an appropriate time/place to ask this question. I had someone PM me asking how to calibrate their battery and I didn't know if I provided them with the correct response. What I've always done is let the battery drain ALL the way down until it dies~usually about 1% and then fully charge the phone while it is off. Then, let it die down once again on that charge and repeat the charging while the phone is off. Is that the correct way to calibrate the battery or am I taking unneccesary steps?
THATTON said:
I guess this would be an appropriate time/place to ask this question. I had someone PM me asking how to calibrate their battery and I didn't know if I provided them with the correct response. What I've always done is let the battery drain ALL the way down until it dies~usually about 1% and then fully charge the phone while it is off. Then, let it die down once again on that charge and repeat the charging while the phone is off. Is that the correct way to calibrate the battery or am I taking unneccesary steps?
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No idea as well honestly. I've never charged my phone while it's off... so that might be the issue...
But then again, my phone has often turned off at the 10% mark. So that's why I thought I'd get more input here on how we can actually find a way to calibrate our batteries or something.
i have two oem batteries and a dock..Everyday I completely drain the first and swap it out with a fully charged one off the dock and both batteries perform great and never shut down above 1% every single time. So the batteries are always completely drained and then have a slow no stress recharge, maybe this is why mine go to 1%?
chowlala said:
No idea as well honestly. I've never charged my phone while it's off... so that might be the issue...
But then again, my phone has often turned off at the 10% mark. So that's why I thought I'd get more input here on how we can actually find a way to calibrate our batteries or something.
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I notice that if I charge my phone while it is off and take it off about 20 minutes after the light turns green, the discharge rate is MUCH slower than if I charge it while the phone is on. Or, I will charge it while on, let it get to 100%, turn it off and continue to charge until the light turns green again. Either of those two ways give me the best results for battery life.
Doesn't the Li-on type of battery calibrate itself when charged from 0% (or the specified minimum) to 100%?
THATTON said:
I notice that if I charge my phone while it is off and take it off about 20 minutes after the light turns green, the discharge rate is MUCH slower than if I charge it while the phone is on. Or, I will charge it while on, let it get to 100%, turn it off and continue to charge until the light turns green again. Either of those two ways give me the best results for battery life.
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Hmm. Interesting thought. Guess letting it charge to 100 while its on is one thing, then turn it off so it maxes out before daily use. I'll try that tomorrow morning and see.
Stats have been recalibrated to pershoots kernels already. So tomorrow will be a good testing day.
LiOn batteries should NOT be drained completely. It is bad for them. You should simply charge to 100%, turn the phone off, let it continue to charge (you may be at 100% when in OS but not truly 100% to the battery) and then wipe battery stats.
hah2110 said:
LiOn batteries should NOT be drained completely. It is bad for them. You should simply charge to 100%, turn the phone off, let it continue to charge (you may be at 100% when in OS but not truly 100% to the battery) and then wipe battery stats.
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Yeah, the discharge part is actually true. There's more info here bout the batts, but nothing much bout calibration.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=669497
chowlala said:
Hmm. Interesting thought. Guess letting it charge to 100 while its on is one thing, then turn it off so it maxes out before daily use. I'll try that tomorrow morning and see.
Stats have been recalibrated to pershoots kernels already. So tomorrow will be a good testing day.
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The biggest thing I noticed right off the bat in doing this was that normally my battery drains from 100% to 90% in less than 30 minutes. After doing what I suggested, I see that my battery discharges much slower from 100% to 90%! Hope it works for you.
My phone was doing that ALL the time. Here's what i did that fixed the issue for me.
1.) Let my phone die as usual.
2.) KEPT IT DEAD... for 1 day
3.) Charged with the phone OFF for 1 day.
4.) Went to RA's recovery as soon as i turned the phone on and reset Battery Settings.
5.) Rebooted and all is well.
I hope this helps someone else.
(My phone would die at 13% EVERY time. It got really annoying when trying to Navigate when i forgot my USB cord for my PowerCup. :< )
And yes i know about the whole not letting Lion Batteries die. When i worked for T-Mobile and the customers would bring in their N1's doing this, every call to HTC this is what they told me to do. (Minus the whole awesome recovery and such). They said letting the battery drain will not hurt the phone as long as it regains 100% charge after the initial drain.
AGAIN. This worked for Me. So im not promising you anything. Plus the batteries are only 25 bucks from Google. And i have 4 extras... Just in case. I would invest in some if i were you. Cause lord knows, were going to do some SERIOUS stuff to our phones. Extra Batts dont hurt.
Lithium batteries don't have memories, that's a leftover idea from the old Nickel Cadmium (NiCad) and NiMh (Nickel Metal-Hydride) days. The idea with Lithium (Ion & Polymer) should pretty much just be charged up whenever. Letting them be drained completely isn't good for them and will reduce their lifespan (reduced mAh) although it won't almost immediately kill them ala lead-acids. Overcharging them via a circuit with a poor cutoff also isn't good for them as they'll heat up, phones or any decent AC charger should stop charging when they hit 100% though.
Probably about the best you can do is charge it to 100%, pull the battery and reboot the phone and then reboot it again. The charge calculation will be based on the rated mAh of the battery which depending on the quality of the battery and the charging system of the device could end up giving you some funny figures. Not much you can do about it though.
I just wanted to say that this link does mention a proper calibration charge, it just does not go into detail.
Item 3 of "General Lithium-Ion Battery (LIBs)Usage":
• Although it is said that LIBs do not have memory, it's not entirely true. LIBs have gauges that monitor performance of cells, and if you do a lot of small charges, it won't let those gauges to monitor a full battery potential, causing an invalid indication of charge level. A complete charge/discharge should be made when battery capacity seems reduced, that will calibrate gauges and they will provide your phone with correct charge level status. A full charge/discharge cycle should be done every 30 (or so) partial charges.
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My assumption of a complete charge/discharge cycle would be:
1. drain battery until the device dies
2. charge the battery to 100%
3. power device on
4. drain battery fully until device dies (no small charges!)
5. charge battery to 100%
This should allow the battery gauges to recalibrate and improve battery capacity.
People seem to be in the dark about lithium ion batteries, how they are charged, and how the device estimates battery charge remaining.
Lithium batteries do not have memory effects, but the phone does keep a file with charge info about the battery; it uses this to estimate charge left and how to charge safely when the device is powered on.
When properly charging a Li-ion battery, the last 10% of the charge should take almost as long as the time it takes to charge from 0 to 90% (well about half as long meaning a full third of the charging time should be going into the last 10% of the charge) Charging with the device off, charges the battery more completely and consistently.
Li-ion battery chargers use a type of charge cycle called constant amp/constant voltage. The battery will be force fed amps until the battery's voltage peaks and it will then be fed a constant voltage. (around the 90% charge mark) During the constant voltage phase, the amps that the battery is taking in will be monitored; as the battery gets closer to full charge the amperage will drop more and more, until it is just a tiny trickle. When it gets to that point, the battery is fully charged. Obviously charging with the device still powered on creates a problem for that type of charging. So the battery can only be charged to the peak voltage, then the charge cycle must stop; as the last 10-15% of the charge can not be completed safely.
It is always good to let a device run until dead and then charge with the device off a couple times when the device is new, and then charge the device from empty while powered off once every couple months. (do not do it too often, as Li-ion batteries prefer to be between 50-80% charge for longer service life) This allows the device to maintain a proper reference data file on the battery and its charge state. this data file is what Android uses to estimate the charge in the battery, if the file is not accurate, the device may power down sooner than it should, or not charge fully to a true 100% state. (peak voltage state when powered on that is)
Also, Li-ion batteries are rated for capacity from a discharged voltage of 3v. So a 1500Mah battery is rated to provide 1500mah of power from fully charged to a final discharged voltage of 3v.
I do not know what the minimum operating voltage of various devices is, but if it is higher than 3v; then the phone must shut down at its min operating voltage and not the 3v needed to get full capacity. My Nexus one shuts off around 3.5v so there is around 25% of the actual rated battery capacity left. (remember what I said about Li-ion batteries liking to be between 50-80%, this left over capacity means that running the battery dead repeatedly is less harmful than if you drained the battery to a true 0% state)
There is also a voltage drop on a battery when under load. So if you are putting a heavy load on the device (like a 3D rendered game heavy gps use) then the battery voltage may drop to below the device’s min voltage. This means that if the phone shuts down during this time, you could probably turn it back on and get a few hours of standby or a few more minutes of light use. This could be another cause for people seeing shut downs when the battery gets around 10%.
The amount of power in a battery is high, especially in Li-ion batteries with their high energy densities. Over charging a Li-ion battery can cause an explosion, literally, that little battery in your phone could remove some fingers. Over discharging is bad as well, as it can start a fire; though like I mentioned above, the cut off voltage is above the 0% state, so that is unlikely here.
Ive proposed this before and got a bit shouted down, but thumbs up if anyone comes up with anything
As i see it, its not a problem with the battery. Its a problem with the battery meter. Since following a regime of deleting my batterystats.bin file, i dont see that issue. Its the same on my g1 as it is on my n1.
This is what i do... when i charge my phone, i charge it until 100%. When it reaches that 100%, i use either use the terminal or root explorer to delete the batterystats.bin file. After which i immediately power off the phone. Now, when its powered off(and still attached to the usb charger) the light should be green. But usually its not! Sometimes it charges up to a full hour longer before it turns green! When it turns green, power the phone back up and enjoy tue extra kick of battery life. Its not actually gaining battery life, its just resetting tue battery meter in the phone. This could only be done with a rooted phone. Oh, i think that this whole innaccurate battery meter thing is a problem with android in general. The meter becomes innaccurate with time. Sometimes extremely innaccurate.
Using the terminal...
su(press enter)
rm /data/system/batterystats.bin(press enter)
Then power off
Wow. Lotsa pewpewz here. Haha.
Again, after all the discussions, seeing that most of us agree the N1 keeps "stock" of how the battery chargers, is there a way for us to check or see how the battery is being calibrated, etc?
Not so much an app to modify the calibration, cuz that'll just be too dangerous, but something more like a tool to monitor it, so we know if it's calibrated right or wrong.
Deleting the batterystats.bin file isnt an app. Its either a script you run to delete it or physically deleting it. And its not dangerous. Ive done it well over a thousand times with my g1 and n1 combined. If you wanted to find out how the calibration work, i guess you could make a copy of your batterstats.bin and read it
Hey,
Just thinking, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know both the tablet and the dock have a Lithium-ion battery
From my knowledge, to keep lithium ion batteries in the best state you have to keep them between 20% and 80%, and not under/over charge them. The dock kinda seems to contradict this, because its constantly overcharging the tablet. This is extremely bad for the battery and greatly reduces the life span and capacity. Think of it as a laptop that you have in the socket 24/7, if you do this for half a year, the battery wont last for more then 30 mins. This, in a way, is resulting in the same problem.
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, but isn't this a major design flaw? The dock should have some on/off charge switch.
It's not that simple. The Transformer, like every cell phone, laptop, and tablet using LiIon cells uses a charge controller chip that monitors charging current, pack voltage, pack temperature, discharge rate, and charge history to optimally control the power being fed to the battery from the charging input. The charge controller has a programmed hysteresis that keeps the battery from constantly charging (trickle charge) once it reaches its max capacity. Without a charge controller, the pack would eventually overheat and catch fire.
It is true that fully charged LiIon batteries will degrade in capacity over months to years. It's more damaging to the battery though to run it through a complete cycle (completely discharge). The best thing you can do for your battery without shelving the TF is to charge it every night to keep from unnecessarily running the battery down the next day.
In short, the Transformer can look after itself.
Also, this.
Thanks for your reply.
I might have used the wrong wording, I understand they have charge controllers to prevent the batteries from overcharging and exploding or catching fire. What I ment by overcharging was, charging it while the battery is already full, and undercharging - not charging it enough by letting it go into a deep discharge too often.
As stated in your link, "partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further"
The dock keeps pushing it to 100%, and keeps it at 100% - reducing its battery life. Also, because you can not disable the dock charge, assuming you are constantly want to use the keyboard which I do, it will go into a deep discharge, also reducing the battery life of the dock. As often said, the best state for LiIon batteries is between 40% and 80%, this is hard to archive for both the dock and tablet due to it constant charging the tablet to full.
In order to preserve the best battery life, you must un-dock the tablet around 90% - and charge the dock whenever it reaches below 40% or so. Meeting both these requirements, while wanting to use the dock constantly seems like a burden. Not doing this, will rapidly decrease the capacity from my understanding.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
I don't see why people worry so much about this. It takes a few years for there to be any noticeable loss in battery life on lithium ion batteries, and even longer for it to become a significant burden.
It took me five years of daily usage of my old Toshiba laptop to wear down the battery to about half its original capacity, and it's still usable with only 2.5 hours of battery life. If we assume similar rules would apply to the Transformer, after 4-5 years you could still achieve a maximum of 8 hours on a single charge. If anything, by that time you'd be more concerned about how sluggish the device feels when compared to the newest tech, especially when browsing the web.
I notice that there's a warning message when the phone is fully charged, advising you to disconnect the charger. I usually leave my phone charging every night, meaning that it's still connected to the charger for hours after it's fully charged. I'm pretty sure that the S2 has "smart" charging, but would the overnight charging damage the battery by exposing it to unnecessary heat for this extended period?
No it shouldn't. Like you said the phone has the ability to shut off the charge when the battery reaches 100%.
I've been charging mine all night for most nights out of the past 3-4 months and it's fine.
That warning is essentially Samsung's attempt to give you a green consciousness, since leaving the charger connected to the wall draws a trickle of current. Sammy figures that millions of people following those instructions to the letter will help save the planet.
It will reduce your batteries life, leaving it on the charger. Will it does stop charging it then drains to 99% then tops it up, which over time uses up the recharge cycles and will reduce the time until it can't hold a charge.
Lithium ion battery doesn't have recharge cycle.
jzmtl said:
Lithium ion battery doesn't have recharge cycle.
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Exactly. This was true until Litium Ion batteries came the norm in handsets.
Nowadays its just to be seen as being 'green'
That is strange since this site devoted to teaching about batteries makes it seem like they do. But also reading it says that being at a constant full charge is more damaging then cycling the battery.
That is in the second paragraph under the "Depth of discharge" chart on this site
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
With the frequency cellphone batteries are charge/discharged, they crap out after two years anyway, and unlike some other fruity product it takes us 10 seconds to plop in a new one, so don't worry about it.
Even if it damaged your battery the effect wouldn't come noticeable before a long time I think. And in case the battery does get damaged, you can always replace it, that's one of the nice things about this phone, if you compare it for example to an iphone.
tomascunill said:
...And in case the battery does get damaged, you can always replace it, that's one of the nice things about this phone, if you compare it for example to an iphone.
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exactly why i didn't buy an iphone
The only things really damaging your battery are:
- excessive heat
- heavy use while charging
- turning on the phone over and over after it turned itself off on it's own due to low battery
there are more, for sure, but just to name a few.
I always charge my phones over night and my HD2's battery is as good as ever after 2 years. My SGS2's battery is still the same, and I still thing that when the battery is full there are no discharge/recharge cycles but something like a suspend mode in the charger.
Anybody have tips on the subject? I was reading around and read multiple articles on this. Many said do not keep it on the charger after it has reached 100%. This poses a problem, because the G2 will charge from 0-100 in nearly 1 hour and 30 minutes, and i like to keep it on the charger while i sleep. Does the G2 have software to prevent this? It does say to please remove charger to conserve energy when its full.
Any replies are much appreciated
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Well i read also that you shouldnt charge it to 100% frequently
2. You shouldnt let the battery charge drop under 20 frequently Before recharging
3. You shouldnt let the battery run out of charge frequently because our battery will get damaged if u do that quite often
so beware of this point
And they said it's not best to let the phone charge over night frequently
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I am no expert in this area - but this is what i do and i seem to get great battery life. i just looked, my device has been on battery for 3.5 hours and i'm still at 100% with usage in the following areas...
Google serviced - 29%
Android system - 22%
Screen - 17%
this is with wifi on, approx 5 min worth of voice calling, and several text messages, couple min of facebook and G+. i am not rooted, running stock launcher with most recent tmobile software update (unlocked and using it on Bell).
I hard reset my device once a month (minimum) - not sure if this does anything, but i am a little OCD when it come to my devices.
Before hard reset...
1. charge device to 100%
2. keep device plugged in for ~15 min after fully charged. The unplug.
3. hard reset device
4. once booted, plug device in a proceed to setup and install programs
5. unplug device once complete
During the day...
I always keep it charged up...i dont usually let it get below 75% (if possible). I'm always around a charger/plug at my work.
During the night...
1. charge device to 100% before going to bed
2. before you go to sleep, unplug device and put it in airplane mode
3. when you get up - turn off airplane mode and plug in for ~15 min or so
Again - im no expert, but this is working for me so imma stick to it!
It is not recommended to keep your phone plugged in after it has reached 100%. Only do it when you need an extra battery boost for the day (and that's hopefully not every day).
The general rule is to charge it from 40%-80% and that partial charges are better than full charges.
I really wish people would stop with the "don't keep it on the charger" nonsense which then makes people think they need to micromanage the charge cycle.
Charge early and often. Don't intentionally drain it down to some low percent, just charge nightly and you should be fine. If you're heavily using the phone, try to avoid dropping below 30%. Heavier discharges cause faster ageing.
And avoid keeping it in a hot environment, north of 30C. If it's your car GPS, keep a vent blowing cool air on it, especially in the summer. During the winter make sure a vent isn't blowing hot air on it.
Heat is probably the primary variable in battery life, followed by heavy discharge cycles.
Do whatever you want regarding keeping it charging after it's full. But disagreeing doesn't make your statement correct. I do agree with your statements about heat, however.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
vPro97 said:
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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the battery will last 3 years, its lithium battery, some people still own old phones like Iphone 4 and the battery still good.
battery is battery, just dont let it over heat and it'll be fine. stop trying to squeeze every second out of the battery and enjoy the phone...
I always thought it stopped charging at 100 but when it looses a little bit on the charger it charges it back. I thought that's why it said to conserve energy....as in energy from your house.
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
It's an established fact that keeping the phone at charged state between 40%-80% is most optimal (causes least stress) for the battery.
But of course, don't let that get in the way of your daily usage routine and cause you incovenience.
Battery is, afterall, consumable and is meant to be replaced.
I'm afraid there are lots of ill-informed people who insist that their batteries do not deteriorate. Congrats to them, they just find the solution that solves the global energy crisis.
How Often Should I Charge My Gadget's Battery to Prolong Its Lifespan?
http://lifehacker.com/5875162/how-often-should-i-charge-my-gadgets-battery-to-prolong-its-lifespan
If you like to get more technical, there's good information from the Pros.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
G1_enthusiast said:
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
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I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
beezar said:
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
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did you leave it in 150 degrees heat?
I almost always turn off my phone if I know its gonna be 100+ outside and 150 in my car. its commonsense.
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
I slow charge my phone using a 500mA iPhone Cube brick and microUSB cable for overnight charging. Charging this way takes hours. I use quick charge in my car and office if needed.
A good charger should trickle charge once its 100% just to keep it up.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So our phones do not come with a good charger?
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
tedkunich said:
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
votinh said:
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I stopped reading the moment they stated the incorrect definition of current flow - if they got that basic tenant wrong, wasn't going to read further. Was not my intent to offend by quoting your post. My comment on the charging overnight was a general response to a prior post that leaving the device on the charger overnight was detrimental to the battery - probably should have quoted that post. In general, leaving an advanced device like a cellphone plugged into a charger will not overcharge a battery - a cheap toy will probably not have a proper charger and CAN damage a cell if left on for prolonged periods.
BTW, I'm an EE and design in Li-po batteries and chargers in my designs and I'm always dealing with non-technical marketing and sales folks to explain these types of details, so I tend to jump in when I hear wrong information (not saying the links contained false information) being discussed.
T
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this wall of text pertain to lithium polymer as well? Consdering that is the type of battery in the phone not ion
Sent from my LG-VS980
I need to revive a dead battery and was wondering if there was anyway I could charge a dead battery that's removed from the phone
If it is totally dead and there is no sign as to where plus and minus are then it can get weird. But batteries often hold a little bit charge and so it should be relaltively easy to just take a polymeter, find the + and the - and charge it directly with 5 volts
Personally I use a universal LiPo charger that can take most different types of LiPo cells.
Example: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...r-industrial-battery-charger_60558441538.html
But as the battery in the xperia Z5c is an internal one, it does not have any easily accessible terminals, one have to do some macGyver trickery to connect it to a universal charger.
One can also feed the battery directly with 5 volts (overvolting it slightly), but one have to be really careful and monitor the battery temperature not to allow it to exceed 50 degree Celsius.
This method should be the absolutely last resort, as a lipo battery fire/explosion is not fun to experience. Also, one should only use this method for a very short time (around 10 to 30 seconds) at a time. Just enough to bring a battery above the discharge threshold. Then continue the charge with a normal charging cycle with a proper lipo charger. Keep in mind that a lipo cell that has been dicharged belov the safety threshold should be considered a dead battery. Even if one is able to "revive" it, the risk of swelling/fire/explosion is considerably larger.
I'd also like to add this video about charging Lipo cells that are below the "threshold": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6mKd5_-abk&feature=youtu.be&t=14m54s
With that in mind, have you tried simply letting your phone sit with the charger connected? Many Android devices won't show any sign of life during the Pre-charge mode, and won't even boot up. They will appear as dead. But they are charging. It just takes time for it to pass the pre-charge mode.
In my case, when I "killed" my Xperia Z5c's battery, it took it 6 hours before showing any signs of life. But it did came back to life again without any external influence.
Well said min vän.
I would also suggest just 30-60 seconds of charging and then check the voltage, when it gets over 3 it should be OK to get charged but the phone itself