First let me say thank you to all of the developers on here who work so hard to help everyone, and give us resources to get the most out of our devices. I've been lurking on this forum for a while, and it's enabled me to root my last two Kindles, and two smartphones over the last couple of years.
I had to finally register because I need some help with my Kindle Fire HDX 8.9". Like many recently, I was able to root my device with towelroot, I installed rootchecker (which confirmed root) and SuperSU, as well as the Google Play Store. So all was great, but when I went to run the toolkit so I could block OTA updates that's where I couldn't succeed. Whenever I tried to disable updates or check root status it just kept giving errors and saying device not found, and asking me to please allow root to my device.
I made sure ADB was enabled, but I still couldn't get the toolkit to do anything. So, I lost root today because of the latest kindle update. What am I doing wrong that's not allowing the toolkit to disable updates?
i faced same issue of device not found while using toolkit
here follow this
https://developer.amazon.com/appsan...etting-up-your-kindle-fire-tablet-for-testing
Try rerooting
Try rerooting your device with the tool and then try again to disable updates. This might work. What version are you on now?
blade22 said:
i faced same issue of device not found while using toolkit
here follow this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just what I needed, thanks!!
Hello,
Recently, I've been trying to root my Kindle Fire so I could acess the larger Google Play market. However, I have not been able to do that. Through Towelroot, I always receive an error of "This phone is not currently supported." I have tried using the KFHDX toolkit and the instructions on this thread, and TR seperatly. The current version is 4.5.3.
If anyone could help, I would really appreciate it.
chuckdart93 said:
Hello,
Recently, I've been trying to root my Kindle Fire so I could acess the larger Google Play market. However, I have not been able to do that. Through Towelroot, I always receive an error of "This phone is not currently supported." I have tried using the KFHDX toolkit and the instructions on this thread, and TR seperatly. The current version is 4.5.3.
If anyone could help, I would really appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't root 4.5.3. If you have a Gen 3 HDX (7" or older 8.9") you can roll back to 3.2.8, roll up to 4.5.2, root, block OTA (automatic updates from Amazon) and then install Google components including the Play Store. However, there are no hand holding tutorials and each step involves risk including permanently bricking your device. Also understand Google apps don't always play nice on Amazon devices. Many people have got them to work; others struggle.
If still interested you are going to have to do some reading. Everything is here in the HDX forums, albeit somewhat disorganized and often terse. Start here but do take the time to skim the entire thread (and others) before making the plunge. Good luck.
Davey126 said:
You can't root 4.5.3. If you have a Gen 3 HDX (7" or older 8.9") you can roll back to 3.2.8, roll up to 4.5.2, root, block OTA (automatic updates from Amazon) and then install Google components including the Play Store. However, there are no hand holding tutorials and each step involves risk including permanently bricking your device. Also understand Google apps don't always play nice on Amazon devices. Many people have got them to work; others struggle.
If still interested you are going to have to do some reading. Everything is here in the HDX forums, albeit somewhat disorganized and often terse. Start here but do take the time to skim the entire thread (and others) before making the plunge. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks for the help!
Hello,
I was rooted running OS 4.2.2 and everything was great until one day I came home from dinner, got out my kindle and saw the dreaded message: "OS Updated to 4.5.4." I forgot to disable OTA! I can't believe I made such a silly mistake, but now I'm wondering if I can rollback 4.5.4 to 3.2.8, and then update to 4.5.2 and root. Does this only work for 4.5.3, or is it possible on 4.5.4? If it is possible, can someone link me to instructions?
Thanks,
Zman8881
Update
I talked to Arun from Amazon support who said it's not possible. He did, however, credit my Amazon account with $5.00 and tell me that an update resolving the inability to rollback will be available soon (EDIT: he later said 3-4 months, nevermind...) , meaning hope for myself and all of you out there who made the same mistake that I did.
EDIT: Is there any backdoor way to downgrade that someone can think of? I have no use for this device without a root, so I'm willing to risk bricking it.
-Zman8881
Zman8881 said:
Hello,
I was rooted running OS 4.2.2 and everything was great until one day I came home from dinner, got out my kindle and saw the dreaded message: "OS Updated to 4.5.4." I forgot to disable OTA! I can't believe I made such a silly mistake, but now I'm wondering if I can rollback 4.5.4 to 3.2.8, and then update to 4.5.2 and root. Does this only work for 4.5.3, or is it possible on 4.5.4? If it is possible, can someone link me to instructions?
Thanks,
Zman8881
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 'classic' 3.2.8 rollback method has reportedly worked for some. There does not appear to be any harm in trying; your device will either accept/recognize the file or not. Obviously follow all the usual cautions if you are successful (eg: keep WiFi off at all times!).
Zman8881 said:
I talked to Arun from Amazon support who said it's not possible. He did, however, credit my Amazon account with $5.00 and tell me that an update resolving the inability to rollback will be available soon (EDIT: he later said 3-4 months, nevermind...) , meaning hope for myself and all of you out there who made the same mistake that I did.
EDIT: Is there any backdoor way to downgrade that someone can think of? I have no use for this device without a root, so I'm willing to risk bricking it.
-Zman8881
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I highly doubt Amazon is addressing the rollback issue. Why would they do that? The tech had a good laugh at your expense. Best path (aside from attempting a 3.2.8 rollback) is to enjoy or shelve your device until a root exploit becomes available for 4.5.4. You will need to keep it off the network as Amazon will undoubtedly push new updates that will be root resistant. And no - there is no known (or at least well communicated) way to root 4.5.4 as of now.
Davey126 said:
The 'classic' 3.2.8 rollback method has reportedly worked for some. There does not appear to be any harm in trying; your device will either accept/recognize the file or not. Obviously follow all the usual cautions if you are successful (eg: keep WiFi off at all times!).
I highly doubt Amazon is addressing the rollback issue. Why would they do that? The tech had a good laugh at your expense. Best path (aside from attempting a 3.2.8 rollback) is to enjoy or shelve your device until a root exploit becomes available for 4.5.4. You will need to keep it off the network as Amazon will undoubtedly push new updates that will be root resistant. And no - there is no known (or at least well communicated) way to root 4.5.4 as of now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you by chance link me to instructions and/or the link for the 3.2.8 rollback method?
Okay, so here is the rollback file, but I urge you to proceed with caution. If you let Amazon update this build, you are ensured a brick. You need to use the hdx toolkit to block OTA on *.3.2.8.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59220996
Good luck.
Zman8881 said:
Can you by chance link me to instructions and/or the link for the 3.2.8 rollback method?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Relevant thread here. Basic procedure is described in the first post. Take care to insure your device can not connect after rolling back to 3.2.8. Keep the device in airplane mode and/or disable wifi. Depending on the method used to root 3.2.8 and 4.5.2 you may need to enable network connectivity momentarily during the rooting process (typically no longer than 30-60 sec). Be sure to turn it off immediately after. There is no need to block OTA on 3.2.8 if your intent is to immediately upgrade to 4.5.2. That said, if you do receive an OTA update on 3.2.8 your device will brick (unrecoverable). The consequences on 4.5.2 aren't as grave: you'll simply be updated to 4.5.4 and have to start the whole process over again. Ultimately you will need to block OTA once on 4.5.2 but that can only be done after obtaining root.
BTW - once on 4.5.2 (rooted) you now have an option to run a custom version of Nexus 7 which presents a much different interface than FireOS. Risks are low and you can always return to FireOS if you don't care for Nexus. There are several distinct advantages to Nexus including full access to Google Services (including play store) and no worries about blocking OTA and/or receiving an update that breaks root. Everything works except LTE; that's being worked on now. More info here.
Good luck.
One Last Question...
Davey126 said:
Relevant thread here. Basic procedure is described in the first post. Take care to insure your device can not connect after rolling back to 3.2.8. Keep the device in airplane mode and/or disable wifi. Depending on the method used to root 3.2.8 and 4.5.2 you may need to enable network connectivity momentarily during the rooting process (typically no longer than 30-60 sec). Be sure to turn it off immediately after. There is no need to block OTA on 3.2.8 if your intent is to immediately upgrade to 4.5.2. That said, if you do receive an OTA update on 3.2.8 your device will brick (unrecoverable). The consequences on 4.5.2 aren't as grave: you'll simply be updated to 4.5.4 and have to start the whole process over again. Ultimately you will need to block OTA once on 4.5.2 but that can only be done after obtaining root.
BTW - once on 4.5.2 (rooted) you now have an option to run a custom version of Nexus 7 which presents a much different interface than FireOS. Risks are low and you can always return to FireOS if you don't care for Nexus. There are several distinct advantages to Nexus including full access to Google Services (including play store) and no worries about blocking OTA and/or receiving an update that breaks root. Everything works except LTE; that's being worked on now. More info here.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for all of the help... Just one last question. What is the name of the internal storage folder on the kindle that I should put the file in? Sorry, I'm new to Android. Believe it or not, I won my Kindle Fire from an arcade machine! Sorry again.
-Zman8881
Zman8881 said:
Thanks for all of the help... Just one last question. What is the name of the internal storage folder on the kindle that I should put the file in? Sorry, I'm new to Android. Believe it or not, I won my Kindle Fire from an arcade machine! Sorry again.
-Zman8881
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey - congrats on the win! The rollback file goes in the root of sdcard when viewed from a tool such as ES File Explorer. If you have tethered your Kindle drop it into "internal storage" which is the base folder when viewed from Windows. After the file is in place reboot. If nothing seems to happen (give it 5-10 min) use the 'check for updates' function from within FireOS (located somewhere under settings). At some point the file will either be recognized/processed, recognized/rejected or ignored all together. Post back your results.
Although it has probably been burned into your brain be sure to do whatever is necessary to prevent network access if your Kindle rolls back to 3.2.8.
Davey126 said:
Hey - congrats on the win! The rollback file goes in the root of sdcard when viewed from a tool such as ES File Explorer. If you have tethered your Kindle drop it into "internal storage" which is the base folder when viewed from Windows. After the file is in place reboot. If nothing seems to happen (give it 5-10 min) use the 'check for updates' function from within FireOS (located somewhere under settings). At some point the file will either be recognized/processed, recognized/rejected or ignored all together. Post back your results.
Although it has probably been burned into your brain be sure to do whatever is necessary to prevent network access if your Kindle rolls back to 3.2.8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I did it, but after I hit update, I was stopped by an error message telling me that an update isn't possible because the update I'm trying to install is an earlier version than what I have on my device. Oh well, I guess it will be a long wait until someone finds a root exploit for 4.5.4. Thanks for all of your help!
-Zman8881
Zman8881 said:
I thought I did it, but after I hit update, I was stopped by an error message telling me that an update isn't possible because the update I'm trying to install is an earlier version than what I have on my device. Oh well, I guess it will be a long wait until someone finds a root exploit for 4.5.4. Thanks for all of your help!
-Zman8881
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry it didn't work. There is a way around that message but you need root to make the change. Catch 22.
The wait may not be that long. Fingers crossed
Couple more questions
Davey126 said:
Relevant thread here. Basic procedure is described in the first post. Take care to insure your device can not connect after rolling back to 3.2.8. Keep the device in airplane mode and/or disable wifi. Depending on the method used to root 3.2.8 and 4.5.2 you may need to enable network connectivity momentarily during the rooting process (typically no longer than 30-60 sec). Be sure to turn it off immediately after. There is no need to block OTA on 3.2.8 if your intent is to immediately upgrade to 4.5.2. That said, if you do receive an OTA update on 3.2.8 your device will brick (unrecoverable). The consequences on 4.5.2 aren't as grave: you'll simply be updated to 4.5.4 and have to start the whole process over again. Ultimately you will need to block OTA once on 4.5.2 but that can only be done after obtaining root.
BTW - once on 4.5.2 (rooted) you now have an option to run a custom version of Nexus 7 which presents a much different interface than FireOS. Risks are low and you can always return to FireOS if you don't care for Nexus. There are several distinct advantages to Nexus including full access to Google Services (including play store) and no worries about blocking OTA and/or receiving an update that breaks root. Everything works except LTE; that's being worked on now. More info here.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, Davey126, sorry to post here again quite a while after it's relevant, but I had a couple more questions.
You state here that you just have to make sure the wifi is not enabled, so OTAs aren't pushed. But another user (below) seems to push that I'll have to use the HDX Toolkit--which I can't seem to figure out how to actually use; is just disabling the wifi enough to keep it from bricking from an immediate OTA after the rollback?
lekofraggle said:
Okay, so here is the rollback file, but I urge you to proceed with caution. If you let Amazon update this build, you are ensured a brick. You need to use the hdx toolkit to block OTA on *.3.2.8.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59220996
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't actually tried to get the update to be recognized yet, because I want everything to be sorted out question wise before diving in, but let's say it works and I get my kindle to roll back. How would I then get it up to 4.5.2?
Sorry for the questions! I just can't seem to find the answers anywhere else.
Rvby1 said:
Hey, Davey126, sorry to post here again quite a while after it's relevant, but I had a couple more questions.
You state here that you just have to make sure the wifi is not enabled, so OTAs aren't pushed. But another user (below) seems to push that I'll have to use the HDX Toolkit--which I can't seem to figure out how to actually use; is just disabling the wifi enough to keep it from bricking from an immediate OTA after the rollback?
I haven't actually tried to get the update to be recognized yet, because I want everything to be sorted out question wise before diving in, but let's say it works and I get my kindle to roll back. How would I then get it up to 4.5.2?
Sorry for the questions! I just can't seem to find the answers anywhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good questions; I appreciate you looked around before posting. If your intent is to rollback to 3.2.8 and then immediately upgraded to 4.5.2 there is no need to block OTA updates on 3.2.8 provide WiFi remains off (as an added precaution I would keep your device in Airplane mode). However, you'll need to enable WiFi for a few seconds while rooting. While that's not enough time to download a complete update a file fragment could potentially cause complications. Hence an OTA block could be beneficial. Really depends how fast you work and whether you can detect an incoming OTA update. You'll need to remove the block before upgrading to 4.5.2.
HDX Toolkit is a tethered solution. It runs on a Windows host and requires USB debugging to be enabled. Commands are issued to your device via the tether. Nothing needs to be installed on your device. You will also want a working tether to copy the 4.5.2 bin and possibly other files to your device when it's time to upgrade. Some folks load everything on the device in advance but I prefer to copy files as they are needed.
Davey126 said:
Good questions; I appreciate you looked around before posting. If your intent is to rollback to 3.2.8 and then immediately upgraded to 4.5.2 there is no need to block OTA updates on 3.2.8 provide WiFi remains off (as an added precaution I would keep your device in Airplane mode). However, you'll need to enable WiFi for a few seconds while rooting. While that's not enough time to download a complete update a file fragment could potentially cause complications. Hence an OTA block could be beneficial. Really depends how fast you work and whether you can detect an incoming OTA update. You'll need to remove the block before upgrading to 4.5.2.
HDX Toolkit is a tethered solution. It runs on a Windows host and requires USB debugging to be enabled. Commands are issued to your device via the tether. Nothing needs to be installed on your device. You will also want a working tether to copy the 4.5.2 bin and possibly other files to your device when it's time to upgrade. Some folks load everything on the device in advance but I prefer to copy files as they are needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha!
Actually, thanks a bunch for not only explaining the tool a bit, but prompting me to go take another look at it. Turns out I was downloading the wrong batch of files--everything seems to be working now. You just tether your kindle and tell it to block OTA, right? Don't have to worry about version number or anything like that?
So with upgrading to 4.5.2, is the process pretty well the same as with downgrading to 3.8.2? If so, where can I find the update file?
Thanks a million!
Rvby1 said:
Gotcha!
Actually, thanks a bunch for not only explaining the tool a bit, but prompting me to go take another look at it. Turns out I was downloading the wrong batch of files--everything seems to be working now. You just tether your kindle and tell it to block OTA, right? Don't have to worry about version number or anything like that?
So with upgrading to 4.5.2, is the process pretty well the same as with downgrading to 3.8.2? If so, where can I find the update file?
Thanks a million!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDX Toolkit only works on FireOS v3 (3.2.8 and below). After rolling back to 3.2.8 tether your Kindle and use the toolkit to block OTA. Once OTA is blocked you can enable WiFi and use towelroot to root. Gather any other files you may need on your device, disable WiFi (also recommend 'airplane mode') and then use the toolkit to reenable OTA (under '5 More'). Move the 4.5.2 bin (here) to the root of sdcard and check for updates. Once on 4.5.2 you'll need to root and block OTA once again. Check the forums for the appropriate tools and method for FireOS v4. Kingroot and renaming DeviceSoftwareOTA.apk seem to be the most reliable.
Davey126 said:
HDX Toolkit only works on FireOS v3 (3.2.8 and below). After rolling back to 3.2.8 tether your Kindle and use the toolkit to block OTA. Once OTA is blocked you can enable WiFi and use towelroot to root. Gather any other files you may need on your device, disable WiFi (also recommend 'airplane mode') and then use the toolkit to reenable OTA (under '5 More'). Move the 4.5.2 bin (here) to the root of sdcard and check for updates. Once on 4.5.2 you'll need to root and block OTA once again. Check the forums for the appropriate tools and method for FireOS v4. Kingroot and renaming DeviceSoftwareOTA.apk seem to be the most reliable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, thanks so much for all the information! I actually just got my kindle to rollback to 3.2.8, but this brought up two more questions for me.
With the HDX Toolkit, it's asking me to grant root access on the device, which I can't do yet until it blocks OTAs; despite this message, it seems to go through and, after displaying the same message 5 times, state that OTAs are blocked. Is there anyway to safely check that they've actually been blocked? Also, is doing it twice okay? The message seemed less than assuring, so I did it again, but it displayed a different message 5 times on the second attempt.
Lastly, I want to root 3.2.8 and /then/ update to 4.5.2, right?
Thanks so much!
Rvby1 said:
Okay, thanks so much for all the information! I actually just got my kindle to rollback to 3.2.8, but this brought up two more questions for me.
With the HDX Toolkit, it's asking me to grant root access on the device, which I can't do yet until it blocks OTAs; despite this message, it seems to go through and, after displaying the same message 5 times, state that OTAs are blocked. Is there anyway to safely check that they've actually been blocked? Also, is doing it twice okay? The message seemed less than assuring, so I did it again, but it displayed a different message 5 times on the second attempt.
Lastly, I want to root 3.2.8 and /then/ update to 4.5.2, right?
Thanks so much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTA blocker in HDX Toolkit is very comprehensive (probably overkill). Some actions require root, others do not. I suspect OTA is effectively blocked but there is no way to conclusively test. Suggest rooting with towelroot (you'll need to toggle WiFi momentarily) and then run the OTA blocker again. Multiple executions should have no adverse consequences. While unlikely to happen watch for any signs of a download in progress. If you see it turn off WiFi and post back for further instructions.
Remember to undo the OTA block after the 4.5.2 bin is in place; otherwise your device won't 'see' it.
Technically you don't absolutely have to root 3.2.8 to upgrade to 4.5.2 but I find it much easier to move files around and take corrective action if something goes wrong. Downside is root gives you unfettered access to everything; navigate carefully.
Davey126 said:
The OTA blocker in HDX Toolkit is very comprehensive (probably overkill). Some actions require root, others do not. I suspect OTA is effectively blocked but there is no way to conclusively test. Suggest rooting with towelroot (you'll need to toggle WiFi momentarily) and then run the OTA blocker again. Multiple executions should have no adverse consequences. While unlikely to happen watch for any signs of a download in progress. If you see it turn off WiFi and post back for further instructions.
Remember to undo the OTA block after the 4.5.2 bin is in place; otherwise your device won't 'see' it.
Technically you don't absolutely have to root 3.2.8 to upgrade to 4.5.2 but I find it much easier to move files around and take corrective action if something goes wrong. Downside is root gives you unfettered access to everything; navigate carefully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha!
Alright. I think this is the final question before I go through with everything: on rooting with Towelroot, can I just use the HDX Toolkit for that? It says it only works up to 13/14.3.2.6 and below, so I just want to be safe.
Rvby1 said:
Gotcha!
Alright. I think this is the final question before I go through with everything: on rooting with Towelroot, can I just use the HDX Toolkit for that? It says it only works up to 13/14.3.2.6 and below, so I just want to be safe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither Towelroot nor HDX toolkit has changed much (if at all) in the past 12-18 months. The version range was likely current when coded. It can't hurt to try; it will either work or not with no side effects. If it doesn't work head off to towelroot.com for the official variant. Obviously this means keeping WiFi on for a longer period.
Davey126 said:
Neither Towelroot nor HDX toolkit has changed much (if at all) in the past 12-18 months. The version range was likely current when coded. It can't hurt to try; it will either work or not with no side effects. If it doesn't work head off to towelroot.com for the official variant. Obviously this means keeping WiFi on for a longer period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got Towelroot to go through, despite a weird error the first execution. I didn't seem to have to enable wifi at all, believe it or not, and HDXTools said I was properly rooted.
I've been searching for the past hour or so, but I can't for the life of me find anything that clearly states how to go about rooting 4.5.2 once I get my kindle updated. I've found the supposed root file through the rollback thread, but I can't find out how to actually use it. As for Kingroot, I can only seem to find threads for 4.5.3. Can you impart any knowledge to me about this?
Also, in trying to find the solution, I found another post by you:
Davey126 said:
You'll need to follow the guide linked by ggow (here) which is rather technical and requires a Windows host to complete (there are variants for Linux and OS X) plus a fair bit of technical knowledge. There are no canned tools, videos or step-by-step tutorials. Unlocking is not risky (failed attempts won't harm your device) but it can be a frustrating experience.
If unlocking feels uncomfortable you can do a controlled upgrade to FireOS 4.5.2 and then install Safestrap v4 followed by Nexus v4 or CM11. However, you will permanently loose the ability to unlock your bootloader which is the key to running roms like Nexus and CM in 'native' mode. Unlocking also offers greater recovery capability should something go wrong.
There is also the 'do nothing' option which leaves you with a perfectly serviceable device running a very nice Nexus rom (Jelly Bean 4.2 based).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From all that I've read, it seems like we can only go back as far as 3.2.8 now. Is it too late to unlock the bootloader? Sorry for bringing an entirely different thread here, haha--I just want to make sure I get everything done in one fell swoop.
Rvby1 said:
Got Towelroot to go through, despite a weird error the first execution. I didn't seem to have to enable wifi at all, believe it or not, and HDXTools said I was properly rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surprised about that but glad it worked! Perhaps the version built into HDX Toolkit contains the bits & pieces that normally require online access.
Rvby1 said:
I've been searching for the past hour or so, but I can't for the life of me find anything that clearly states how to go about rooting 4.5.2 once I get my kindle updated. I've found the supposed root file through the rollback thread, but I can't find out how to actually use it. As for Kingroot, I can only seem to find threads for 4.5.3. Can you impart any knowledge to me about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kingroot works great on 4.5.2 and is far easer than the alternative methods. Some question the origins of Kingroot (China) but the tool is widely used across a variety of platforms. Personally I could care less where it comes from as long as the reputation is solid. Sharing this in case you have a different perspective.
Rvby1 said:
Also, in trying to find the solution, I found another post by you:
[removed - see previous post for content]
From all that I've read, it seems like we can only go back as far as 3.2.8 now. Is it too late to unlock the bootloader? Sorry for bringing an entirely different thread here, haha--I just want to make sure I get everything done in one fell swoop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As your start point was FireOS v4 your device was never eligible for bootloader unlocking. More specifically, Amazon fixed the vulnerability that allowed bootloader signature forging in 3.2.4. Clever folks figured out how to roll back to 3.2.3 up through 3.2.6. Starting with 3.2.7 Amazon became aggressive about blocking rollbacks. Any attempt to do so will blow an efuse which is equivalent to a brick. It's always possible another vulnerability will be discovered in higher firmware levels that permits bootloader unlocking. Don't hold your breath.