Related
Decided to ask Barnes and Nobles online chat about the NOOK Tablet's bootloader. I wasn't expecting much but Emely the second tier support person that I was bumped to informed me of the following...
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14:17:51 : Emely: Let me check the detail on the bootloader.
14:18:04 : : cool thank you
14:22:17 : Emely: The NOOK Color™ as well as the NOOK Tablet™ almost has the same features. Only that the NOOK Tablet™ is an enhanced version.
14:22:47 : : so both have the same bookloader?
14:22:52 : : bootloader that is
14:24:07 : Emely: If with the NOOK Color, it is unlocked, same with the NOOK Tablet™.
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Now this isn't conclusive, I don't know how much information she really had available to her, but it does give me hope.
cclinco said:
Decided to ask Barnes and Nobles online chat about the NOOK Tablet's bootloader. I wasn't expecting much but Emely the second tier support person that I was bumped to informed me of the following...
-------------
14:17:51 : Emely: Let me check the detail on the bootloader.
14:18:04 : : cool thank you
14:22:17 : Emely: The NOOK Color™ as well as the NOOK Tablet™ almost has the same features. Only that the NOOK Tablet™ is an enhanced version.
14:22:47 : : so both have the same bookloader?
14:22:52 : : bootloader that is
14:24:07 : Emely: If with the NOOK Color, it is unlocked, same with the NOOK Tablet™.
-------------
Now this isn't conclusive, I don't know how much information she really had available to her, but it does give me hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is "unlocked" does that mean one could sideload the Android Market apk and then have access to the Android apps without rooting?
mmeyer4663 said:
If it is "unlocked" does that mean one could sideload the Android Market apk and then have access to the Android apps without rooting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlocked/locked bootloader has nothing to do with side-loading apps.
I really hope that B&N will release unlocked devices: it's a boost for popularity of nooks
RussianMenace said:
Unlocked/locked bootloader has nothing to do with side-loading apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, If I remember correctly there was a statement about not "allowing" side-loading apps on the stock nook color.
Some companies think that this can affect the overall "experience" of their devices and hinder the performance.
Correct me if I'm wrong there, cause I didn't start to side-load apps till after root on the nc.
diamond_lover said:
I really hope that B&N will release unlocked devices: it's a boost for popularity of nooks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not their business model. They are not selling it because they want to be a hardware vendor, they are selling it because they want you to buy books and apps from them. Think printers and ink cartridges. Same reason Kindle Fire is locked and also probably why it has no SD card slot. B&N seems to be willing to look the other way though if people want to root it, which is a good thing. Most customers will not do that anyway so the fact that all of us here will is probably not going to hurt their business. In fact, it probably generates more positive buzz in the press resulting in more sales of devices that never get rooted. And some like me will continue to buy books through them as well instead of from Amazon as a sign of loyalty.
I so hope this tablet is as hackable as the Color. If it is....gimme gimme gimme
xjacko7x said:
I so hope this tablet is as hackable as the Color. If it is....gimme gimme gimme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is, I know what I'm getting for Christmas.
patruns said:
That is not their business model. They are not selling it because they want to be a hardware vendor, they are selling it because they want you to buy books and apps from them. Think printers and ink cartridges. Same reason Kindle Fire is locked and also probably why it has no SD card slot. B&N seems to be willing to look the other way though if people want to root it, which is a good thing. Most customers will not do that anyway so the fact that all of us here will is probably not going to hurt their business. In fact, it probably generates more positive buzz in the press resulting in more sales of devices that never get rooted. And some like me will continue to buy books through them as well instead of from Amazon as a sign of loyalty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you're right... I was meaning here in xda-devs
patruns said:
That is not their business model. They are not selling it because they want to be a hardware vendor, they are selling it because they want you to buy books and apps from them. Think printers and ink cartridges. Same reason Kindle Fire is locked and also probably why it has no SD card slot. B&N seems to be willing to look the other way though if people want to root it, which is a good thing. Most customers will not do that anyway so the fact that all of us here will is probably not going to hurt their business. In fact, it probably generates more positive buzz in the press resulting in more sales of devices that never get rooted. And some like me will continue to buy books through them as well instead of from Amazon as a sign of loyalty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I'm anyone, but I agree with your assessment of their (B&N) reasoning. They are trying to put out a good product but they also are marketing (hopefully) to the hacker market.
Nuenjin said:
Not that I'm anyone, but I agree with your assessment of their (B&N) reasoning. They are trying to put out a good product but they also are marketing (hopefully) to the hacker market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that B&N made the Nook Color the way that they did to make it as idiot proof as possible. I mean think of all the crap (CM7, Ubuntu, SDK Honeycomb, etc) that was thrown at the Nook Color! I have not heard of it bricking. The damn thing is almost bullet proof.
If B&N is smart they'll do the same thing with the Nook Tablet, and make it so that no matter what the customer does to it, a tech can fix it. If they make it so that a customer has to work to break their new toy, then B&N will get good press and more people will buy their product even with the higher price than the Amazon Fire.
the only other thing we need to know now is if it will boot from an sd card like the color did and we'll be all set
If they kept boot from SD or boot from USB before boot to emmc, and they didn't turn on any security features, then it doesn't matter what bootloader they use or whether it's locked or not.
Leaving boot open on the NC was great marketing, let's hope the same is true for this.
KCKitsune said:
I think that B&N made the Nook Color the way that they did to make it as idiot proof as possible. I mean think of all the crap (CM7, Ubuntu, SDK Honeycomb, etc) that was thrown at the Nook Color! I have not heard of it bricking. The damn thing is almost bullet proof.
If B&N is smart they'll do the same thing with the Nook Tablet, and make it so that no matter what the customer does to it, a tech can fix it. If they make it so that a customer has to work to break their new toy, then B&N will get good press and more people will buy their product even with the higher price than the Amazon Fire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this i agree with you, the only reason i can see B&N doing what they did with the nook color is so that their techs can fix their nooks without any real training
If the NT is as open ended as the NC, I'll take over any other Tablet...seriously. The build quality, the aesthetics, the way it feels like a book in my hand...its beautiful. Also, IMO sliding this in my back pocket and going from class to class w/ 3 texts on it...f'ing princekiss. Er, priceless.
luigi90210 said:
this i agree with you, the only reason i can see B&N doing what they did with the nook color is so that their techs can fix their nooks without any real training
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The unbrickable factor has to be make it easy to refurbish the things.
I keep thinking about the psychology of it all, because I think it's interesting. I don't want to sound repetitive so I'll back off after this.
Neither Apple nor Amazon have allowed us to have a card slot and a card slot means storage and ownership. Cloud services aren't about ownership, it ultimately leads to services that generate income.
Since B&N doesn't have a strong web based infrastructure, they have to rely on on actual storage. Coincidentally, a cardslot makes our lives easier.
I believe that at some point they (B&N) realized the nice position they backed themselves into and decided the most cost effective thing was to supercharge it and get Hulu & Netflix in the mix.
The bottom line is a good device even if it not rooted.
English isn't my first language, otherwise I'd write one myself.
I'm looking for a good english writer to write a petition to B&N to provide the development community with an ability to access the bootloader and root the device.
I think main points should be that they've made a lot of money by allowing people to mod original NC, and that this will greatly increase the interest in purchasing the NT. Also, worth mentioning some examples of devices like Captivate that really benefited from custom community development (improved GPS, fixed many bugs, early GB port, etc).
Basically persuade B&N to support and appreciate development community and give us means to develop for them.
Needless to mention, only use words like "develop", "improve", etc... not "hack" and "crack" lol.
Here's the site I found where we can collect signatures:
http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/petitionspotcom/
POST IT HERE first, then we'll go and make it official.
PS: before anybody goes all "they ain't gonna listen yo" - let me remind you of Samsung's support to SuperCurio about improving Galaxy S's sound processing. After community asked Samsung, they actually provided full support and helped SuperCurio improve the device.
Providing a device and documentation is VERY different from unlocking a bootloader, unfortunately...
Entropy512 said:
Providing a device and documentation is VERY different from unlocking a bootloader, unfortunately...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, but I think my point remains - this is another avenue of "attack" to get B&N to support us.
Our hackers are approaching this from technical side, I want to try and help and organize a line of communication with B&N and see if we can get them to help us.
Get your petition up and I'll sign! I was going to get a NT but now I'm not so sure. If it can't run from a dual booting SD card, it's just not worth it. Might as well pony up and get a "real" tablet.
Assuming the bootloader is proven to be locked, I'm simply taking mine back. The apps I use on the Nook Color *must* be available on the Nook Tablet, or it's not worth my money.
I hate to say it, but I'm in the same boat. I bought it because of what was accomplished with the NC and because of B&N's assurances that the same would be possible with the NT.
goldenu said:
Assuming the bootloader is proven to be locked, I'm simply taking mine back. The apps I use on the Nook Color *must* be available on the Nook Tablet, or it's not worth my money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iamnarada said:
I hate to say it, but I'm in the same boat. I bought it because of what was accomplished with the NC and because of B&N's assurances that the same would be possible with the NT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what are you guys running on the NC that you cant run on the NT?
you can sideload apps onto the NT and run goLauncher etc...
postulio said:
what are you guys running on the NC that you cant run on the NT?
you can sideload apps onto the NT and run goLauncher etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. i'm a little confused. I get the SD boot issue being a problem, but I haven't come across any apps that I use that couldn't be sideloaded.
maybe i'm just old and don't use some of the stuff you guys use?
I really enjoy the NT but don't know how long I will keep it if I constantly have to use workarounds to get any functionality out of it.
No custom kernels / ROMs
No Android Market
No settings page
No root (so far at least)
Nook button opens Nook launcher only
i dunno, I guess I'm just more patient than most. I really didn't expect to buy it and have it as functional as it is already, leave alone rooted or installing custom roms. I expected that in a few months....
I'm just glad I could install a real browser, and have access to install the apks i wanted.
postulio said:
what are you guys running on the NC that you cant run on the NT?
you can sideload apps onto the NT and run goLauncher etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, all of the Google apps install fine, but when I try to sign in to my account or associate it my account with the tablet, it tells me my user name or password is wrong. So effectively, I can't use any of the Google apps. I can log in to my google account in the browser, and access the web versions of the apps, but....what I was looking for really was to be able to put the ROM I wanted on it.
Add me to the list of those with a clock ticking. Picked mine up on the 16th, and it stays wrapped until we know if the NT can be rooted - or day 14 - whichever comes first.
Progress is great so far - but I don't want a device that can be locked down with any random update from B&N. Based on their earlier broken promises, they have about zero credibility for things said.
Let me retract my line about broken promises - that was Amazon that promised no rooting roadblocks - and they kept to their word. I don't think B&N made any statement about this.
A petition is good, for sure. But it doesn't hurt if everyone also contacted B&N [[email protected]] and explained personally and sincerely why it would be in their best interest to unlock the Tablet. I'd focus on how their specs are superior, but useless if they're not open. I'd mention the limited space for side-loading, and enabling 3rd party apps.
I'd remind them how popular their Nook Color got, and free press, when the NC was rooted. And use the MS Kinect & Linksys WRT-54G as examples of success stories when a company adopts and opens their hardware.
I thought everyone knows that e-petition is totally worthless. Actually, it's worse than worthless, since it gives you a false sense of complacency.
If rooting is that important to you, then take more effort than the few keyclicks to fill out an e-petition.
Take your purchased NT to the nearest B&N store. Return it, and make sure you give the reason why it's being returned, that the NT is hostile to tech enthusiasts. Say that you'll now consider the Kindle Fire because of its more tech-friendly mindset (whether that's true or not). Say that given your status as the go-to tech dude, you'll recommend against the NT for any who asks.
Ask to speak to a manager or a tech specialist; you don't want your words wasted on a grunt. Be polite but firm at all times.
Money speaks the loudest. Let your money speak for you. Buy something else.
e.mote said:
I thought everyone knows that e-petition is totally worthless. Actually, it's worse than worthless, since it gives you a false sense of complacency.
If rooting is that important to you, then take more effort than the few keyclicks to fill out an e-petition.
Take your purchased NT to the nearest B&N store. Return it, and make sure you give the reason why it's being returned, that the NT is hostile to tech enthusiasts. Say that you'll now consider the Kindle Fire because of its more tech-friendly mindset (whether that's true or not). Say that given your status as the go-to tech dude, you'll recommend against the NT for any who asks.
Ask to speak to a manager or a tech specialist; you don't want your words wasted on a grunt. Be polite but firm at all times.
Money speaks the loudest. Let your money speak for you. Buy something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If everyone were to do what you're saying, B&N would lose 3% of NT's total sales (judging by statistics someone referenced here), call it within a sales estimation margin of error and ignore it.
And we'd all be left without a $250 tablet, or with a ****tier one.
Sorry, don't like your solution. It'd only work if, say, 25%+ of NT buyers wanted root.
And you think e-petitions are better? Good luck with that.
There are different ways to communicate. Some more effective, some less. E-petition is at the bottom of the heap, followed by e-mail.
Money--ie making vendor lose money with refunds--is the most powerful method of persuasion. Sure, there may not be enough people to make the vendor reconsider, but it beats moping around and twirling your thumbs, hoping the vendor will change its mind with some dumb e-petition, no?
BTW, techies have an outsized influence on vendor decisions, as long as they know the proper buttons to push. B&N right now is in a battle with Amazon for e-readers. Saying that you'll get a Kindle Fire, and will recommend everyone to do so, is a big button you can push. Forcing the vendor to lose money with refunds is another.
In any case, if your envisioned use is a rooted NT, then this isn't it, so why hang onto it? If/when the NT is rooted, you can always buy it again.
e.mote said:
And you think e-petitions are better? Good luck with that.
There are different ways to communicate. Some more effective, some less. E-petition is at the bottom of the heap, followed by e-mail.
Money--ie making vendor lose money with refunds--is the most powerful method of persuasion. Sure, there may not be enough people to make the vendor reconsider, but it beats moping around and twirling your thumbs, hoping the vendor will change its mind with some dumb e-petition, no?
BTW, techies have an outsized influence on vendor decisions, as long as they know the proper buttons to push. B&N right now is in a battle with Amazon for e-readers. Saying that you'll get a Kindle Fire, and will recommend everyone to do so, is a big button you can push. Forcing the vendor to lose money with refunds is another.
In any case, if your envisioned use is a rooted NT, then this isn't it, so why hang onto it? If/when the NT is rooted, you can always buy it again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People have different reasons.
For one, if I were to call for mass returns of NT, that'd greatly decrease interest in rooting the NT, which makes it even worse. If you decided NT is not for you and u want KF - godspeed, I'm sure you've got your reasons.
And no, petitions are NOT worthless. Not with decent companies. As I've mentioned, ask SuperCurio and his collaboration with Samsung.
I, for one, had a $100 gift card for B&N, so it's $150 NT versus $200 KF for me. Regardless, even without that giftcard, I'd still not go for KF when there's NT around, cause KF is just gimped and kinda useless.
Regardless, can we please return to the topic of this thread - I'm looking for someone's help writing a letter to B&N asking them for help achieving root for developers.
>If you decided NT is not for you and u want KF - godspeed, I'm sure you've got your reasons.
I've no interest in the KF, and for now, the NT. But it doesn't hurt to tell B&N that I consider their competition to be better, for persuasion purposes.
>And no, petitions are NOT worthless. Not with decent companies.
"not with decent companies"..
Life's experience isn't something that can be told, I suppose. Good luck with your quixotic quest. Please do keep the NT past the return period, and make B&N happy.
Yes, let's return to the topic of e-petition. Below is a piece that'll let you know your chances. Welcome to the world of SLACKTIVISM.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp
e.mote said:
>If you decided NT is not for you and u want KF - godspeed, I'm sure you've got your reasons.
I've no interest in the KF, and for now, the NT. But it doesn't hurt to tell B&N that I consider their competition to be better, for persuasion purposes.
>And no, petitions are NOT worthless. Not with decent companies.
"not with decent companies"..
Life's experience isn't something that can be told, I suppose. Good luck with your quixotic quest. Please do keep the NT past the return period, and make B&N happy.
Yes, let's return to the topic of e-petition. Below is a piece that'll let you know your chances.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, we get it. You're not happy. Return your NT and leave the NT forum. We're all just trying to have a friendly discussion here. There's no need to be so negative. Thank you.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk
... give us a copy of Bootloader unlocker!
Pleeeeeeeaseeeeeeee
They have a bootloader unlocker? I thought they were just going to system restores and stuff like that. Getting anything they have would be a huge benefit to the community.
To any of you B&N employee's if you don't feel comfortable publicly posting that stuff just pm a dev or really anyone on here you feel like. I'm sure lots of us wouldn't mind being the middle man(myself included).
…if you were work for Barnes & Noble, you're in less of a position to help anyone than we are.
What are you expecting, exactly? Someone to leak a signing key and they lose their job for a $250 tablet?
As a consumer, the best thing you can do is not buy the Nook Tablet. It's the best way to send a message to B&N.
tamasrepus said:
As a consumer, the best thing you can do is not buy the Nook Tablet. It's the best way to send a message to B&N.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES!
Spot on!
come on! Who doesn't want to participate in a little corporate espionage?
tamasrepus said:
As a consumer, the best thing you can do is not buy the Nook Tablet. It's the best way to send a message to B&N.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah us android geeks not buying the ipad has really helped to make them realize to make their stuff more open and less commie.
By not buying and being silent, how is Barnes and noble going to get the message. Companies are far more likely to listen to paying customers. Remember nowadays XDA is a amazing resource for manufacturers. How many articles have been written about breakthroughs developers made at XDA. Thats free publicity and free development for them.
I am sure Barnes and noble pays somebody to check this forum, and others. That is why I suggested that i somebody wanted to leak something they could anonymously PM somebody on here and get it out that way.
B&N: get the message
I second and third and fourth that. B&N has two markets for their product, and if they purposefully make it very difficult to root the device, they are going to lose one of those markets. I'd buy a Nook tablet tomorrow if I were comfortable with being able to achieve a clean install of a rooted image, but without that, I'll likely go to another device. It would be a shame.
As mentioned before... the XDA crowd is not likely the market for this device due to the fact that the device is most likely lost leading.... It's in no way the interest of BN to provide any of the tools for you to do this.
Don't believe me? Look at the current sideloading situation... People are already on the Android/Amazon markets which technically means money out of BN's coffers...
trippap said:
I second and third and fourth that. B&N has two markets for their product, and if they purposefully make it very difficult to root the device, they are going to lose one of those markets. I'd buy a Nook tablet tomorrow if I were comfortable with being able to achieve a clean install of a rooted image, but without that, I'll likely go to another device. It would be a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In all reality they didn't make it hard to root at all. Root was achieved by modifying usb drivers and using a known exploit. B&N had plenty of time to lock this tablet down way more than it is. Even sideloading is super easy. The bootloader is another matter all together, still I have a feeling somebody will find a simple workaround
>In all reality they didn't make it hard to root at all.
I don't think B&N had much to do with the low-level stuff, just the top-level design. The locked bootloader as has been said was likely for Netflix HD cert, since OMAP4 already had that feature. They didn't need to do anything extra. Otherwise, it's the same custom layer on top of 2.x.
The NT even retained the 1GB user-space which is a carryover from NC. Some modicum of sense would've shown that you don't need 12GB for app space, and would've avoided the bad reviews. Per Occam's Razor, don't attribute malice when incompetence will do.
tamasrepus said:
What are you expecting, exactly? Someone to leak a signing key and they lose their job for a $250 tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted for truth. The M-Shield security setup that is locking down the bootloader uses a one-time-programmable e-fuse inside the cpu so that the key it's looking for or the logic to do so can never be reprogrammed. Unless I missing something in their setup I don't see how a bootloader unlocker would be possible. Instead they would have to give use their private key to sign our own files
The more I read about the locked bootloader, the more I regret purchasing the tablet. They have, however, made some promising progress with this tablet, and I haven't heard anyone say definitively that it is not possible to bypass this obstacle.
For the record, is the kindle fire's bootloader locked?
Before hand, I'd like to apologize for my ignorance of not skimming through every thread here and finding the particular information I am looking for.
I do see that at the moment, the Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 cannot be rooted. Now, I've never previously owned any Kindle devices or Amazon products rather, but I want to know what I could do with a rooted Kindle Fire HDX 8.9. I love reading, and have been purchasing near 80 books on Amazon for a ridiculous amount of money─so I am buying a Kindle.
I have owned and do own several Android devices, all rooted, and I know what I can do with them. Is it similar? One thing I have never bothered to look into were custom roms, what would a custom rom on a Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 do? Just change the gui?
My main question is, can I download pdfs, ebooks, MOBI (etc) files and move them to the Kindle to read them without purchasing them from the Amazon store or wherever else?
Thanks guys, appreciate it.
new unit
John hurt said:
Before hand, I'd like to apologize for my ignorance of not skimming through every thread here and finding the particular information I am looking for.
I do see that at the moment, the Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 cannot be rooted. Now, I've never previously owned any Kindle devices or Amazon products rather, but I want to know what I could do with a rooted Kindle Fire HDX 8.9. I love reading, and have been purchasing near 80 books on Amazon for a ridiculous amount of money─so I am buying a Kindle.
I have owned and do own several Android devices, all rooted, and I know what I can do with them. Is it similar? One thing I have never bothered to look into were custom roms, what would a custom rom on a Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 do? Just change the gui?
My main question is, can I download pdfs, ebooks, MOBI (etc) files and move them to the Kindle to read them without purchasing them from the Amazon store or wherever else?
Thanks guys, appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is brand unit u can root it.
I just did 5 minutes ago on new 8.9 it came today. Skipped set up hit airplane mode rooted and blocked ota
1225 64825452
jimyv said:
If it is brand unit u can root it.
I just did 5 minutes ago on new 8.9 it came today. Skipped set up hit airplane mode rooted and blocked ota
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to elaborate? What do you mean by "brand"? And where is the thread/software I can use to root it? Tutorial preferably.
John hurt said:
Care to elaborate? What do you mean by "brand"? And where is the thread/software I can use to root it? Tutorial preferably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
any help?
new
John hurt said:
any help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
brand new brand new units still on rootable software
A brand new Kindle HDX may ship with firmware that is rootable. My HDX 7 was one of them. I don't think there is a guarantee, but when you get a new HDX and go through the setup process, do NOT connect it to a WiFi network. Once it is up, immediately turn on airplane mode and check your version of firmware. If it is rootable, root it and immediately block OTA.
I want to do something with 13.3.2.8, if I can...
I was running 13.3.2.1 before, and everything was working fine but one day the OTA update showed up and messed up everything.
I know in previous threads about 13.3.2.8 they have said you can't do anything with it (root, TWRP) , but is there any way I can go back to 3.2.1?
You can still root and install Safestrap (as well as ggow's HDX Nexus ROM) on x.3.2.8.
EncryptedCurse said:
You can still root and install Safestrap (as well as ggow's HDX Nexus ROM) on x.3.2.8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after i install the HDX Nexus ROM can I install TWRP then upgrade to CM11?
Iamreallybadwithusernames said:
after i install the HDX Nexus ROM can I install TWRP then upgrade to CM11?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you're stuck with Safestrap (which means no TWRP or CyanogenMod).
Iamreallybadwithusernames said:
I want to do something with 13.3.2.8, if I can...
I was running 13.3.2.1 before, and everything was working fine but one day the OTA update showed up and messed up everything.
I know in previous threads about 13.3.2.8 they have said you can't do anything with it (root, TWRP) , but is there any way I can go back to 3.2.1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a "legitimate" excuse for what was messed up, you could consider complaining to Amazon and see if they will roll you back (as they have done for people from 4.x to 3.2.8. They probably won't want to, and will probably lie to you and say it can't be done (as they said to many people asking for 3.2.8)... but, again, if you have a good reason, you could get away with it. I'd suggest reading up on the 3.2.8 rollback threads to see what worked for those people.
If you DO come up with a way to have them roll you back, I'm sure others would love to do this as well, so I'd also advise you to read up on how to "capture" the OTA rollback, so that you can share it with others here... just like people did with 3.2.8. We would all be very appreciative!
schwinn8 said:
If you have a "legitimate" excuse for what was messed up, you could consider complaining to Amazon and see if they will roll you back (as they have done for people from 4.x to 3.2.8. They probably won't want to, and will probably lie to you and say it can't be done (as they said to many people asking for 3.2.8)... but, again, if you have a good reason, you could get away with it. I'd suggest reading up on the 3.2.8 rollback threads to see what worked for those people.
If you DO come up with a way to have them roll you back, I'm sure others would love to do this as well, so I'd also advise you to read up on how to "capture" the OTA rollback, so that you can share it with others here... just like people did with 3.2.8. We would all be very appreciative!
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I don't believe Amazon agents intentionally 'lie'. Recently there has been little/no pushback on downgrading thor (7") devices from 4.x to 3.2.8. At least not reported in the forums. The confussion came with 8.9" devices as Amazon attempted to distinguish between and develop policies for Apollo and Saturn. A few users with 8.9" devices got rolled back; most others were denied until things got sorted. That created an uproar. Today Apollo (older 8.9") devices can be rolled back; Saturn (newer 8.9" w/2.5GHz processor) can not. Of course, individual agents understanding of the policy will vary. Sometimes it's just easier to call back and hope the next agent is a little more knowledgeable.
There is no need to capture the rollback file for thor; done quite some time ago.
Hey, I am no Amazon fanboy. They got dem warts like everyone else. But I do believe Amazon tries hard to make things right (when reasonable) and generally provide a level of service far superior to almost any other device manufacturer. Apple might be the exception. Oh wait, they don't roll back either ...
@Iamreallybadwithusernames: If you got upgraded to 3.2.7/3.2.8 you can not roll back. There is no evidence Amazon has ever rolled a user back from these versions. If you got upgraded to 4.x you can probably roll back to 3.2.8 ... but no further.
Davey126 said:
I don't believe Amazon agents intentionally 'lie'. Recently there has been little/no pushback on downgrading thor (7") devices from 4.x to 3.2.8. At least not reported in the forums. The confussion came with 8.9" devices as Amazon attempted to distinguish between and develop policies for Apollo and Saturn. A few users with 8.9" devices got rolled back; most others were denied until things got sorted. That created an uproar. Today Apollo (older 8.9") devices can be rolled back; Saturn (newer 8.9" w/2.5GHz processor) can not. Of course, individual agents understanding of the policy will vary. Sometimes it's just easier to call back and hope the next agent is a little more knowledgeable.
There is no need to capture the rollback file for thor; done quite some time ago.
Hey, I am no Amazon fanboy. They got dem warts like everyone else. But I do believe Amazon tries hard to make things right (when reasonable) and generally provide a level of service far superior to almost any other device manufacturer. Apple might be the exception. Oh wait, they don't roll back either ...
@Iamreallybadwithusernames: If you got upgraded to 3.2.7/3.2.8 you can not roll back. There is no evidence Amazon has ever rolled a user back from these versions. If you got upgraded to 4.x you can probably roll back to 3.2.8 ... but no further.
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You're too peaceful for an internet forum, Davey126 But, seriously, you are correct. They may not intentionally lie, but I do take offense when people answer something without being 100% sure and/or asking if they are even a little unsure. Too often, CS agents take the shortcut and just keep following the script even when presented with contradictory evidence. As for the lack of training/forwarding of the "new" information, I can't blame anyone but Amazon for that. Yes, they do a better job than others, but that's not saying much as I think we both agree... so setting the bar that low isn't good enough and I feel they should be called out on these issues when they appear. In the end, I think we are on the same page... just wanted to clarify my point there.
As for the rollback, IF (and that's a big IF) this person can get them to perform a rollback to an earlier version, then great. I just hope they can learn the capture process and share it with others. Fact is, there is nothing technically preventing Amazon from providing an older rollback... they just don't want to for their own reasons (ie, they want to keep the device locked down). Frankly, I hate the fact that any of these devices are locked down at all. Consumers ran into this back in the early days of computers, where we were "locked down" to the OS provided, hardware originally sold, etc, which was absolute crap. Heck, remember when telephones were similarly locked down? Ridiculous. These devices should similarly not be "allowed" to be locked down.... and it's annoying to see such a backwards step in technology "policy" especially when there's no reason for it.
Lastly, regarding the Amazon customer service. Normally, I agree, they are pretty good. In the case of this device, I am VERY disappointed. I bought this device with the intent of using a specific app on their appstore. They have since removed the app from their store (it's still available on other appstores) with no explanation to me or the app maker. Furthermore, the app-maker says Amazon will likely be blocking some of the app's functionality in the near future, thereby breaking it. The device is still under warranty and I have spent many hours with Amazon support on this matter (phone, chat, and email) and I just get a runaround, repeated suggestions that I've already told them do not work, etc... and keep getting no answers (much less solutions) to anything. So, I'm rather annoyed and upset with Kindle support on this one.... hence my (hopefully understandable) attitude on the matter....
schwinn8 said:
You're too peaceful for an internet forum, Davey126
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Lol! There is a pretty heavy filter between brain and fingers. We are probably further apart than you might think. As a consumer I wish all devices came unlocked. From a business perspective this makes little sense. In Amazon's shoes I would behave the same way, although I might release an unlocked 'developer' edition at a premium price point to help quell the small but vocal enthusiast community. I also understand your frustration with Amazon support. Having managed a call center (not boasting; just part of my portfolio) trying to keep agents on the same page is akin to herding cats. There are a host of reasons behind this which I won't delve into here for fear of offending someone. It's a tough job - especially given the economic pressures facing both employer and employee. That does not mitigate your personal experiences; I'd be a bit miffed too.
Ignore this post, didn't quote accidentally
Davey126 said:
Lol! There is a pretty heavy filter between brain and fingers. We are probably further apart than you might think. As a consumer I wish all devices came unlocked. From a business perspective this makes little sense. In Amazon's shoes I would behave the same way, although I might release an unlocked 'developer' edition at a premium price point to help quell the small but vocal enthusiast community. I also understand your frustration with Amazon support. Having managed a call center (not boasting; just part of my portfolio) trying to keep agents on the same page is akin to herding cats. There are a host of reasons behind this which I won't delve into here for fear of offending someone. It's a tough job - especially given the economic pressures facing both employer and employee. That does not mitigate your personal experiences; I'd be a bit miffed too.
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Iamreallybadwithusernames said:
Sorry. had some complications on my side figuring out how to log back in when I initially made this account with my google account....
Anyways, some users have tried manually downgrading with the 3.2.5 file, and have failed (in some cases even bricked their devices). So it actually isn't possible (someone probably could hack the device to figure out how to allow it to roll back from 3.2.8, but that would probably take longer than figuring out TWRP & other root things for 4.5.3)
My device DID come with 13.3.1.0, I wanted to stay on stock (a mistake) so I used one of those OTA disablers, which (as the title states) didn't work.
but amazon decided that they didn't care that I got rolled back, and one morning when I turned it on, I was back on 4.5.3.
I wonder if I could make up some drama about my device having some issues or whatever, and they would replace it and maybe it would come with 13.3.1.0? (it actually has been picky about WiFI, so maybe I would actually legitimately get it replaced)
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Sorry for double posting, I accidentally didn't quote you.
schwinn8 said:
You're too peaceful for an internet forum, Davey126 But, seriously, you are correct. They may not intentionally lie, but I do take offense when people answer something without being 100% sure and/or asking if they are even a little unsure. Too often, CS agents take the shortcut and just keep following the script even when presented with contradictory evidence. As for the lack of training/forwarding of the "new" information, I can't blame anyone but Amazon for that. Yes, they do a better job than others, but that's not saying much as I think we both agree... so setting the bar that low isn't good enough and I feel they should be called out on these issues when they appear. In the end, I think we are on the same page... just wanted to clarify my point there.
As for the rollback, IF (and that's a big IF) this person can get them to perform a rollback to an earlier version, then great. I just hope they can learn the capture process and share it with others. Fact is, there is nothing technically preventing Amazon from providing an older rollback... they just don't want to for their own reasons (ie, they want to keep the device locked down). Frankly, I hate the fact that any of these devices are locked down at all. Consumers ran into this back in the early days of computers, where we were "locked down" to the OS provided, hardware originally sold, etc, which was absolute crap. Heck, remember when telephones were similarly locked down? Ridiculous. These devices should similarly not be "allowed" to be locked down.... and it's annoying to see such a backwards step in technology "policy" especially when there's no reason for it.
Lastly, regarding the Amazon customer service. Normally, I agree, they are pretty good. In the case of this device, I am VERY disappointed. I bought this device with the intent of using a specific app on their appstore. They have since removed the app from their store (it's still available on other appstores) with no explanation to me or the app maker. Furthermore, the app-maker says Amazon will likely be blocking some of the app's functionality in the near future, thereby breaking it. The device is still under warranty and I have spent many hours with Amazon support on this matter (phone, chat, and email) and I just get a runaround, repeated suggestions that I've already told them do not work, etc... and keep getting no answers (much less solutions) to anything. So, I'm rather annoyed and upset with Kindle support on this one.... hence my (hopefully understandable) attitude on the matter....
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This is the third one of the same, I meant to quote you and dave but accidentally quoted myself and dave instead. oops.
Sorry. had some complications on my side figuring out how to log back in when I initially made this account with my google account....
Anyways, some users have tried manually downgrading with the 3.2.5 file, and have failed (in some cases even bricked their devices). So it actually isn't possible (someone probably could hack the device to figure out how to allow it to roll back from 3.2.8, but that would probably take longer than figuring out TWRP & other root things for 4.5.3)
My device DID come with 13.3.1.0, I wanted to stay on stock (a mistake) so I used one of those OTA disablers, which (as the title states) didn't work.
but amazon decided that they didn't care that I got rolled back, and one morning when I turned it on, I was back on 4.5.3.
I wonder if I could make up some drama about my device having some issues or whatever, and they would replace it and maybe it would come with 13.3.1.0? (it actually has been picky about WiFI, so maybe I would actually legitimately get it replaced)
Iamreallybadwithusernames said:
I wonder if I could make up some drama about my device having some issues or whatever, and they would replace it and maybe it would come with 13.3.1.0? (it actually has been picky about WiFI, so maybe I would actually legitimately get it replaced)
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If the device is still under warranty and you are having troubles with WiFi then I would not hesitate to engage Amazon on remediations which likely will entail swapping out for a refurbished unit. I think it unlikely the replacement will arrive with 13.3.1.0. Not what you wanted to hear but 13.3.x.x is getting long in the legs. Amazon would rather you be on 13.4.x.x and likely is imaging refurbished units accordingly.
just had kindle fire hdx replaced
Davey126 said:
If the device is still under warranty and you are having troubles with WiFi then I would not hesitate to engage Amazon on remediations which likely will entail swapping out for a refurbished unit. I think it unlikely the replacement will arrive with 13.3.1.0. Not what you wanted to hear but 13.3.x.x is getting long in the legs. Amazon would rather you be on 13.4.x.x and likely is imaging refurbished units accordingly.
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Amazon just replaced my kindle fire hdx about a week ago and the reverb unit I received had 13.3.2.1 on it. This is the second referb I have gotten from amazon with 13.3.2.1 so there is at least a chance if they send you a replacement that it will have a 13.3.2.1 on it just be sure to keep WiFi off cause it will try to update as soon as it connects to wifi. Until you get root with towel root and use hdxposed to prevent updates. Good luck
ja49902 said:
Amazon just replaced my kindle fire hdx about a week ago and the reverb unit I received had 13.3.2.1 on it. This is the second referb I have gotten from amazon with 13.3.2.1 so there is at least a chance if they send you a replacement that it will have a 13.3.2.1 on it just be sure to keep WiFi off cause it will try to update as soon as it connects to wifi. Until you get root with towel root and use hdxposed to prevent updates. Good luck
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Alternatively, use HDX Toolkit which offers both root and OTA blocking along with several other features. Hdxposed it it can become disabled (including the OTA blocker) if, for whatever reason, xposed framework doesn't load properly at boot. HDX toolkit disables and/or renames OTA services. I have yet to hear of a Kindle auto-updating after applying this blocker.
BTW - great to hear a Amazon is still distributing refurbs with 3.2.1! Kinda amazing given the aggressive steps (efuse) Amazon took in later versions to block rollbacks.