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My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
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Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
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You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
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I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
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What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
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Click to collapse
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
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Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
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Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
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Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive:
Hi everyone
I have an LG Optimus Vu device and due to LG's tremendous support for this phone, the operating system is still ICS and the kernel version is 2.6.39 (even the I/O scheduler for this phone is set to noop, and there aren't any alternatives :| ). It could be all good and well if there aren't hundreds of crashes appearing every day about different applications, which is driving me crazy. I've searched and searched and it seems that there are no custom ROMs for this phone, nor is there any custom recovery application. I could barely find an application to root this phone.
To get to the point; I'm considering to make a custom ROM for this phone, but I am a noob in these kind of stuff.
I have the kernel source and the original ROM zip file. Since the original OS version is 4.0.4, is it possible to bring the required proprietary drivers from the original and use it in a newer Android version like 4.4.x?
Can I use Google's recent Tegra 3 kernel (3.10) and port those LG specific drivers from the older kernel?
Am I even starting this process in the correct way?
Any help is appreciated.
set-0 said:
Hi everyone
I have an LG Optimus Vu device and due to LG's tremendous support for this phone, the operating system is still ICS and the kernel version is 2.6.39 (even the I/O scheduler for this phone is set to noop, and there aren't any alternatives :| ). It could be all good and well if there aren't hundreds of crashes appearing every day about different applications, which is driving me crazy. I've searched and searched and it seems that there are no custom ROMs for this phone, nor is there any custom recovery application. I could barely find an application to root this phone.
To get to the point; I'm considering to make a custom ROM for this phone, but I am a noob in these kind of stuff.
I have the kernel source and the original ROM zip file. Since the original OS version is 4.0.4, is it possible to bring the required proprietary drivers from the original and use it in a newer Android version like 4.4.x?
Can I use Google's recent Tegra 3 kernel (3.10) and port those LG specific drivers from the older kernel?
Am I even starting this process in the correct way?
Any help is appreciated.
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Click to collapse
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're pretty much stuck. LG has locked the bootloader on it and has said they have no plans on unlocking it. Since the phone is around a year and a half old or older, I'd imagine they aren't going to change their minds all of a sudden for the relatively small amount of people still using the phone.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2055272 - discussion about your phone here
FYI
What is a bootloader?
The bootloader is the first thing that starts up when a phone is turned on. At its most basic level, a bootloader is the low-level software on your phone that keeps you from breaking it. It is used to check and verify the software running on your phone before it loads. Think of it like a security guard scanning all the code to make sure everything is in order. If you were to try to load software onto the phone that was not properly signed by the device vendor, the bootloader would detect that and refuse to install it on the device.
When we speak about locked bootloaders, the context is often used to give meaning to the term “locked.” Almost all phones ship from the factory with locked bootloaders, but some are encrypted as well. It is this encryption that most reports are referring to when using the term “locked.” If a bootloader is encrypted, users can’t unlock it to load custom software of any sort. The device will be restricted to running software ROMs provided by the manufacturer.
Now, there are ways to unlock or circumvent bootloaders in special situations, but with ones that have no dev support like yours, it's pretty much a lost cause and most likely way beyond your capabilities to figure out without spending 100s of hours of learning about Android stuff. This is not a knock on you or anything of the sort, but it is what it is. It is a very difficult thing to figure out encrypted bootloaders even for the most experienced android developers and hackers and depending on how they are encrypted, there just might not be a way (ask the older Moto phones, especially from VZW).
es0tericcha0s said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're pretty much stuck. LG has locked the bootloader on it and has said they have no plans on unlocking it. Since the phone is around a year and a half old or older, I'd imagine they aren't going to change their minds all of a sudden for the relatively small amount of people still using the phone.
...
Now, there are ways to unlock or circumvent bootloaders in special situations, but with ones that have no dev support like yours, it's pretty much a lost cause and most likely way beyond your capabilities to figure out without spending 100s of hours of learning about Android stuff. This is not a knock on you or anything of the sort, but it is what it is. It is a very difficult thing to figure out encrypted bootloaders even for the most experienced android developers and hackers and depending on how they are encrypted, there just might not be a way (ask the older Moto phones, especially from VZW).
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Two thumbs up for the detailed reply.
Shame really. The phone was released in November 2012 but there wasn't a single OS update...
I guess I would have to give up on that, but I'm interested in system level developments for both Android and desktop systems. Any idea where to start?
set-0 said:
Two thumbs up for the detailed reply.
Shame really. The phone was released in November 2012 but there wasn't a single OS update...
I guess I would have to give up on that, but I'm interested in system level developments for both Android and desktop systems. Any idea where to start?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, it does suck. That's one of the downfalls to making 8 million different phones. You have no incentive ($$$), no interest, and no manpower to be able to update them all in a reasonable fashion. But it's not like LG is alone. All of the manufacturers have had decent phones just...disappear in regards to updates or anything of the sort.
As far as getting started, there is a ton of info right here on XDA:
http://xda-university.com/
Modify hashes?
Hi!
Sorry for digging out a dead thread, but for the p895 probably all threads are more or less dead...
I wonder if it is really necessary to decrypt the bootloader. Since it must be able to boot different versions of the stock roms, it would probably only calculate a hash value of some files and compare that to a value stored elsewhere.
By comparing different versions of stock roms it might be possible to get some information about what files are hashed. If it is a standard hash algorithm and the comparison value the bootloader uses is stored in plain text (hope....!) there might be an atack vector in
comparing several known plain texts.
I also noticed, that the p895 has a "software integrity check" in the hidden menu that shows has values for some (a lot) of files. these hash values are likely already calculated when entering that menu option (i am pretty certain because they show immediately), so they might belong to the files checked at boot time and also hint to the hash algorith used.
The idea is to calculate a hash value for the custom rom and put it in the appropriate place so the bootloader thinks of the rom as an update.
These are just vage ideas, but i have no intention whatsoever to buy a new phone anytime soon and I guess I could as well spend "some" time tinkering and learning the tech details...
thank you!
I'm looking into building a custom android device to be embedded in a project I'm working on. I won't need GSM/cell service, so this would be more of a 'tablet' with wifi that's the size of a phone. The first version of this project used some lower level embedded controllers, but for a better user experience (capacitive touch screen, full featured app, etc), I'm looking into using an embedded android device and having a friend (who told me to post here about this) write an app to run on it for me. This project is starting to scale, so buying a cheap tablet and tearing it apart isn't really a good option; I'll need to build something from the ground up. My problem is that I'm more of a microprocessors guy, so I don't really know where to start with this kind of hardware.
I found this thread which was a good start, but the info is like 3 years old now.
Has anyone tried to do something like this? Should I be trying to find a manufacturer who already does this type of thing to work with? If so, how do I find someone like that? If I am going to do the design myself, what kind of processors can run an Android OS? Where's a good place for learning that type of info? Are there any reference designs out there I can use to get started? Is running Android on RaspberryPi a good starting spot, or is that simply not scalable?
Thanks for the help, I hope I'm in the right spot. Apologies if not!
Hi,
I have flashed custom ROMs on my HTC Desire, my HTC One, Samsung Galaxy ACE, ... But all of them had plenty of resources...
I've got this tablet (it came free with a TV) and I can't find any info on it anywhere.
It's extremely sluggish and bloated (there's three system browsers - Android Browser, Chrome and Opera ) so I was thinking I'd find a vanilla ROM or a better ROM, but I can't find any info and I don't know how I would go about flashing since I can't find a ROM designed for this particular device, nor can I find a recovery for this specific device. Can I use resources from other devices (which? what to look for?)?
I'd even give building AOSP source code a try if that's neccesary since I'm a programmer and that would come with the benefit of actually modifying Android code to suit my needs like for instance deleting parts of code pertaining to GSM functionality since it's not a GSM tablet and every CPU tick counts
I am not, however, familiar with the exact hardware so stuff like drivers, kernels, etc... are uncharted territory for me and, even though it cost me less than bubble gum and the device itself is really not something that would be a shame if I bricked it, I still would like to not brick it since I already have the thing and it could be convinient every now and then, but not enough for me to actually pay for a better tablet
Note: I'm not actually looking to build AOSP from source, that's only a last resort since it's not a simple app, it's a whole lot of magic there Just saying that that's a last resort possibility.
Hi everyone,
I can't find a satisfactory answer on my favorite search engines, so I thought I'd come here and ask. Sorry if this question has already been put on the table, carved, sliced and gobbled, I couldn't find trace of it in the forum's search engine either.
My phone's a Leagoo T5c that will forever be stuck on Android 7.0, it seems, because the OEM has already lost interest, and because its SoC makes it difficult, if not downright impossible, to find a suitable custom ROM.
The latest ROM I could find and install on this phone goes back to August of 2018 (no-no, no typos), and its Security Update is even one month older (July 2018).
My question is in the title: Is it possible to install Security Updates without reinstalling/updating/upgrading the firmware itself, like you would in, say, Windows or any other OS, I presume?
UglyStuff said:
Hi everyone,
I can't find a satisfactory answer on my favorite search engines, so I thought I'd come here and ask. Sorry if this question has already been put on the table, carved, sliced and gobbled, I couldn't find trace of it in the forum's search engine either.
My phone's a Leagoo T5c that will forever be stuck on Android 7.0, it seems, because the OEM has already lost interest, and because its SoC makes it difficult, if not downright impossible, to find a suitable custom ROM.
The latest ROM I could find and install on this phone goes back to August of 2018 (no-no, no typos), and its Security Update is even one month older (July 2018).
My question is in the title: Is it possible to install Security Updates without reinstalling/updating/upgrading the firmware itself, like you would in, say, Windows or any other OS, I presume?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With android 10 were introduced Google play security updates that lets you received security updates (not all of them unfortunately, some requires to upgrade) without updating the full OS. You can't do it because you're stuck with the wrong Android version
Hopefully you won't have any issues with hacking but consider buying a new phone when you'll get a chance
Security updates get rolled out as OTA by OEM/Carrier if they consider it's necessary. You can't force it. Theoretically, all Android smartphones should get around two years of security updates. However, the reality is often very different.
The Leagoo T5c is a small-budget phone what was sold for 99 USD - so more or less a disposable item. You cannot expect OEM/Carrier to have any interest in providing updates for such a phone.
Thank you both for your explanations. I understand that Android works differently when it comes to updating itself, mostly because Google isn't the only party to have a voice in the chapter; still, it's unnerving to see that the end-user is more or less captive anyway.
It kinda defeats the very purpose of an open-source OS, to have to wait for an OEM to release (or not) an update, when you could install the patches yourself.
As for buying another phone, well, as soon as I've got the dough, I will, believe me. Not because I'm dissatisfied with this one, but because I don't like the idea of totting around with a phone that hasn't seen a security update in over two years.
I'm also seriously considering moving to Ubuntu Touch, though there again, my phone's exotic platform could be problematic. Custom ROMs seems to be as complicated an avenue as others, too.
All in all, Android isn't what they sold me: It's not secure, it's not "free", it's just another way to make you shell out bucks for new hardware every couple years.
Android is just iOS without the eye-candy, you ask me...
UglyStuff said:
Thank you both for your explanations. I understand that Android works differently when it comes to updating itself, mostly because Google isn't the only party to have a voice in the chapter; still, it's unnerving to see that the end-user is more or less captive anyway.
It kinda defeats the very purpose of an open-source OS, to have to wait for an OEM to release (or not) an update, when you could install the patches yourself.
As for buying another phone, well, as soon as I've got the dough, I will, believe me. Not because I'm dissatisfied with this one, but because I don't like the idea of totting around with a phone that hasn't seen a security update in over two years.
I'm also seriously considering moving to Ubuntu Touch, though there again, my phone's exotic platform could be problematic. Custom ROMs seems to be as complicated an avenue as others, too.
All in all, Android isn't what they sold me: It's not secure, it's not "free", it's just another way to make you shell out bucks for new hardware every couple years.
Android is just iOS without the eye-candy, you ask me...
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Click to collapse
Android isn't iOS precisely because you can break free from your OEM by flashing a custom ROM. You can develop one for almost any device as long as the OEM releases the kernel source code. And most OEM do (expect for some very unknown phones).
Custom ROMs like GrapheneOS are made to free you from google Services and are truly privacy oriented. And all of that is possible because Android is open source.
Trust me, the Android community has always worked actively to counter aging of their devices (including me).
Just buy a phone with a solid community behind and you'll be able to keep it up to date a looong time
Raiz said:
Android isn't iOS precisely because you can break free from your OEM by flashing a custom ROM. You can develop one for almost any device as long as the OEM releases the kernel source code. And most OEM do (expect for some very unknown phones).
Custom ROMs like GrapheneOS are made to free you from google Services and are truly privacy oriented. And all of that is possible because Android is open source.
Trust me, the Android community has always worked actively to counter aging of their devices (including me).
Just buy a phone with a solid community behind and you'll be able to keep it up to date a looong time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you in principle, but if I must take an example: I have this Early 2006 MacBook Pro with a Core Duo CPU that precludes me from even installing Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion" on it, because the CPU is 32-bit-only, and Lion requires a 64-bit CPU.
The machine itself works very well, albeit a bit slowly, but then it's got only 2 GB of RAM and a 120-GB SSD. When I got fed-up with OS X applications not updating/upgrading and Firefox addons not installing because my copy of Firefox was too old, I partitioned the SSD, installed rEFInd as boot manager, and installed Zorin 15.2 (now 15.3) Lite 32-bit.
I now spend more time on the Linux side of this Mac than on the OS X side, and updating/upgrading it is a breeze, either via the dedicated application or in Terminal. I know there'll be an end-of-the-line there too, someday, but at least I'll keep using this Mac until it truly dies on me, not when Apple tells me it's dead.
This, for me, is the very essence of open-source: Not just the fact that it's free, but that you can revive an old machine and keep it running long after Apple et al have decided that it had gone the way of the dinosaurs.
The same doesn't apply to Android, alas. Here, you must have a compatible SoC/chipset/what-have-you, a Treble-compatible device, you must have this, you must have that...
In the end, only a fraction of Android users really get to enjoy everything their device has to offer for as long as they choose; the others just pop into the nearest phone store, be it brick-and-mortar or cyber, and must produce their credit card.
My question was as much a challenge to myself as anything else. I would really like to learn how Android works, but the tutorials and articles I've found here and there are all a bit cryptic.
That's why I'm regularly prowling this forum, I guess.
"Hunting high and low", as the song goes... :laugh:
yep, good question but google & manufactures are in it for the moola not the users 2 yr old phone.
hiitsrudd said:
yep, good question but google & manufactures are in it for the moola not the users 2 yr old phone.
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Don't I know it! It's true that even budget phones have decent specs nowadays, still, why dump a perfectly functioning phone simply because you can't update/upgrade the software?
I understand Google's rationale, of course: They invest tons of money year after year after year to keep the whole boat afloat, and they need a steady income. OK. Still, to not be able to keep your phone ***safe*** is a no-go for me.
I'm seriously beginning to think about installing Ubuntu Touch on the device. I think I'm going to try that next weekend.
I'll probably come back here with my eyes red, asking for help in unbricking my phone, though.
Stay tuned! :good:
A followup, if you are mindful of your own security it's conceivable to get more usage of that android. I don't use a banking app, but if need be use a good browser( thats updated of course) And update all often used apps via playstore. I'm still running Oreo on my phone. FYI you iOS ppl need to do critical updates asap