Moving from M9 to G4 - Sprint HTC One (M9)

I hope moderators leave this here because I certainly would have liked to have known this information before I made the move and it is directed for M9 owners.
It is not meant to say the G4 is a clear winner it just describes the trade-offs between the two.
I was having network reliability issues with my M9. I was running the very historically reliable Bad Boys ROM and tried reverting back to Stock Rooted. It greatly improved reliability. But I lost Tether.
I go to so much trouble to get tether it might be cheaper to just buy it
One thing that has also nagged me is if you look at M9 reviews on Sprint.Com you'll see a ton of folks saying under cons "Camera and Dropped Calls" (like 1 out of every 3 reviews, even on positive reviews).
Anyway I thought I'd try a G4. Ever since browsing a Sprint Store once all the phones were out I was rather drooling over the Larger Screen phones with razor thin bezels.
I was gonna buy a G4 on Swappa or Ebay for around $420.00 (I'd only buy sealed new phone). But I was worried it would be no better reliability wise and would not be able to return it.
There was also an issue with Bad Screens on early batches of G4's and I was concerned about quick swap with 14 days or warranty swap after and if I bought on swappa or ebay it may be part of that early batch.
If I could get it for $420.00-ish (some have bought them for under $400) and sell M9 for $350.00-ish it would cost me under $100.00 to swap.
So I need to value time and headaches and went to bestbuy. They had it for $650.00 (gulp). They matched Sprint $600.00 (no contract of course).
Then I said fine and then they hand me a $100.00 bestbuy giftcard, great. I also qualify for 2nd Battery, External Battery Charger and Leather Back Cover promotion (don't care that much about any of those things except maybe for resale later).
They also let me cherry pick the latest build date they had and there was quite a wide range.
Now to the phone comparison.
The G4 Screen is FANTASTIC. I don't know why so many reviews say you won't see a difference. It is drop dead gorgeous. The difference between M9 and G4 is about the same as the difference between the M8 and M7.
It's only a fraction taller and fraction wider and weight about the same. It feels much lighter. I think it's because it's curved and weight is over a larger area (i.e. less dense).
I was VERY worried about the G4 speaker. But is VERY good. I mostly care for speaker when using it to Navigate. It cuts through much better. Samsung S5 speaker was muffled compared to M8.
The buttons on the back of the G4 are GREAT. It is so nice having no buttons on any edge. I can't tell you how many times I've picked up the M9/M8 or took it out of the ProClip holder or out of my pocket and did something to it, I didn't want to do.
No buttons get hit on G4 either while in my pocket (no case).
I could care less about the leather backs for G4. They are not grippy enough. I added egrip to the hard shell back and it feels great (as I did my M8/M9/M7).
I have a hunch the hard shell cover helps with the speak and acts as speaker itself where the leather would absorb sound.
By default G4 maps double click volume down to take a picture. And I mapped double click up to turn on flashlight (I'd never map that on M9, it would get accidently turned on in my pocket, guaranteed).
There is no "S-Off" and no unlocked bootloader (and there might never be) on G4. But there is root on the G4 and you need a Dev to reroot each release and that vulnerability may get closed !! You must use ADB each time.
I think GSM versions have bootloader unlocked. Overall very little development.
Network reliability wise I think it is better than the M9. But it has not solved all my issues. Some of them are just plain Sprint and the new modes these modern devices run in.
Battery might be slightly worse on G4. Hard to say because I'm still fiddling with it a lot.
LG does screen brightness right. ON all other phones I've tried have to choose between fixed desired setting and auto.
On the G4 you can choose Auto AND choose how bright you want auto to be. DUH, why can't anyone else get that right !!
OMJ has tweaked his roms for a lower auto setting. But I can choose what ever I want when I want.
It still fits in my ProClip I bought for the M7 (has small width adjustment). Now at Max.
I was using my wifes M8 last night and I can't believe how quickly you get used to a wider keyboard. M8 really felt old generation.
Tether. There is a hack being used on S5/S6/G3/G4 to simply add ",dun" to your APN's to get Native tether (much easier than HTC phones that store this in SQLite).
You don't even need root on the G4 (you usually do). This does not work when roaming though !! Or more correctly does not work on EV-Do (which sprint no longer uses). It only works on eHRPD or LTE.
both Native and Wifi Tether Router work on G4 (no roaming). Roaming tether works on Bad Boys M9.
I really miss M8/M9 blinkfeed (my wife is hooked too). Yes I know about the port but I don't want to hack up the phone (Especially with no TWRP ;( ) and it is still limited functionality.
HTC could probably make more money just selling Blinkfeed as a standalone App than selling phones
I don't miss Sense 7. LG is much better than Samsung Touch Wise. LG is a little like Samsung with less Business look and feel and more Cartoon Kiddie look and feel like their dialer.
The Camera in the G4 is AMAZING. The M9 an absolute joke (in comparison). Optical Stabilization with Laser Focusing (no, not laser precise, but actually uses a laser to focus).
I don't understand why the 20 mega pixel camera in the M9 is so bad (in comparison). It must just have a crappy lens on it.
One big let down is G4 has no UMS (USB Mass Storage) mode for the USB SD Card access. M9 does. That really stinks. For example if you rename say a ROM from the PC over MTP it copies the file down to the PC renames it and copies it back.
There are references to "Mess Storage" in G4 specs but it does not have "USB Mass Storage" mode (it does not come up as a disk drive like a USB Stick would).
One annoyance on Sense is the mysterious missing widget. It happens to me and my wife on M8. Somehow it gets dragged off. Even with a lock pattern on the phone.
Problem is when a call comes in and you have Bluetooth the phone is unlocked in your pocket (or pocket book).
Can't tell you how many times I pull M8/M9 out of my pocket and the camera is running or getting hot in my pocket because something started up.
I have very few widgets and no special apps that start things up.
One really nice thing on LG is you can drag an Icon to Remove or Uninstall, Iove this. Don't have to dig through settings Apps or Play Store to clean up.
Given that my network issues are mostly Sprint my justification has diminished to get the G4 in the first place. But I just don't think I can give up the Camera and the Screen.
I have a wireless backcover (3rd party) and charger coming for the G4 (LG only makes a wireless case at the moment). All phones should have built in wireless charging, period.
G4 has a split screen but it's limited to only some apps. Not sure how useful it will be.
G4 soft navigation buttons work betterthan M9. By default they do not AutoHide and you can choose which apps will invoke AutoHide. You can also customize it a bit.
There are a couple apps that always autohide you can't turn off like camera.
The Quick Drag down menus are little better on HTC.
The Notification LED is much better on G4 (much larger). M9/M8 is too small and sometimes you need to be on top of it to see it.
It comes down to Unlocked Bootloader/S-Off, Blinkfeed, USM on M9 vs Camera, Screen, Rear Buttons, Wireless Charge on G4.
The lack of unlocked bootloader implies a loss of community as well
Probably gonna sell the M9 but there will be features I really miss.
HTC will have to have a hell of phone next year to pull me back. I would have considered Samsung again, but the lack of SD Card was a deal breaker and I need a min of 64GB and have 128GB now. That would be a $900 phone from Samsung with 128GB and no UMS mode either. But Samsung does include wireless charging in their phones now. Screens are great too. But the "Edge" versions seem fragile. I don't think the speakers are as good from what I've read.
I hope this helps some folks in future choices and future feature requests from any phone manufacturer. Sure would be nice to have the best of both. And they are both good phones. But the needle is leaning towards G4 at the moment.
We'll see where the needle is come next spring. I will definitely wait for all the phones to come out before buying. I will surely buy another come spring, I always do and if this phone is still that good I'll give it to my wife and get a G5.
Update 9/24/2015:
The root world outside of HTC is getting pretty ugly.
After going through one update and getting root back on G4, I sure do miss HTC Unlocked Bootloader (and S-Off Bonus).
It went smooth and did it dirty. I was lucky and it was a fair amount of work (involves booting Linux off a USB stick).
I have learned that G4's DO record they have been rooted, but it is not visible in Recovery or Bootloader. You have to dig for it in a file (that cannot be modified easily \persist\rct.cfg)
So I was incorrect above of saying you can restore back to factory on G4 being undetectable.
But it gets worse, a few people have tripped a Security Alert. Sometimes by seeming innocent changes while rooted (one person changed their DPI setting and tripped it).
It is unknown for sure, but even a factory reset (even if unrooted) might trip Security Alert. And it's very difficult to fix.
There are things like the RUU (called TOT), but much more difficult to apply.
Rooting from scratch yourself is, pretty complex, compared to TWRP doing it for you.
I still love the G4 hardware. But I do miss the Unlocked Bootloader of HTC's.
Had I known the risks on G4, I may have elected to go no root at all (since it can get tether without root non-roaming) or go with a Samsung (tons of developers over there)
I'm glad my wife will be keeping one HTC phone in the family and the Ut-Oh replacement M9 is running excellent (root only).
I hope HTC releases a more competitive piece of hardware next spring.
Also I've had my eye on Samsung Forums. Even though they successfully run TWRP. It is not safe to Factory Reset (not sure if this is true on all models or carriers).
They may lose Data/Voice if they do.
There is some sort of Key stored in Data and that Key cannot be regenerated once Rooted (that's my understanding/guess).
G4 does have an official unlocked bootloader in European models, hope is USA will be added. A lot of folks are doubtful though.
If you really value root, stick with HTC for now.
Root is not critical for me, but it sure is uneasy not having a Nandroid backup.

---

man...I really hate long winded posts, usually will skim but I did read it all
sorry to see ya go, maybe another time on another awesome HTC yes I am a HTC fanboy...from reading your post, nothing looks alluring to me. I do believe HTC needs to step it up or they will fold. This new A9 they are about to announce will be a joke. Hopefully M10 or whatever it's called will wow everyone. If I wasn't such a fan, I'd go w/ the Nexus 6.
good luck!

---

OMJ said:
man...I really hate long winded posts, usually will skim but I did read it all
sorry to see ya go, maybe another time on another awesome HTC yes I am a HTC fanboy...from reading your post, nothing looks alluring to me. I do believe HTC needs to step it up or they will fold. This new A9 they are about to announce will be a joke. Hopefully M10 or whatever it's called will wow everyone. If I wasn't such a fan, I'd go w/ the Nexus 6.
good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your comments.
Not being on the M9 hurts most because of not being in the same community as folks like you.
Sooner or later we will hopefully converge on the same device again. I tried Samsung last year after initial M8 and came back to M8 (which my wife has now) and then M9.
The lack of unlocked bootloader might eat at me overtime. I keep thinking I really don't even need root. But just yesterday I received a Bose Souchtouch Speaker and found an "AirPlay" emulator in PlayStore that requires root !
The risk of losing root or not being on latest android because devs were not able to reroot make me uneasy. If a boot loader unlock is not found we may eventually lose root (assuming you want to be on latest Android because developers will move on).
One thing I have figured out networking wise. When on LTE the phone must switch to eHRPD to take the call. If you are on marginal signal switching can take a long time. It takes so long to switch the call goes to Voice Mail before it's done switching. If I leave the phone in CDMA mode it does not have to switch and fights to maintain a compatible voice connection even on a weak connection. And will always ring within couple of rings (usually immediately). When on weak LTE/eHRPD it's a crap shoot on how long it takes (it will eventually switch). This is not sprints fault due coverage. It's just some rooms at work are weak signal on all carriers.
The lack of Voice over LTE is a good part of the problem that might be fixed say in 5 years. I have not tried WIFI Calling yet. It was dreadful on M8/M9 (switching from Cell to WIFI or WIFI to Cell was sloppy and slow enough to not be reliable, I'm not expecting G4 to be better, it's mostly the same tech under the hood).

---

I work in a phone store, so I am always always always researching the best "best" phone. Usually I rely on a few factors, root, bootloader unlocking ease, rom development and lastly features. You can have a crappy phone, but it has a great deal of development, or have an iphone with IOS.
The M8 and M9 are my current devices since my G3 crapped out on me. I feel that the G4 is not my go to phone since LG is gutting the G4 to make the nexus. The biggest question I can ask you is, do you want a development scene that will last the lifetime of the device or do you want a device with building development?
LG, in my experience has had a really slow development process. Now a quick disclaimer, I am not judging any developer, nor saying you should or should not get a particular device, but generally, HTC, moto and all nexus branded devices have the quickest root/unlock and development. You can essentially consider CM nightlies a "farm" status for minor bug fixes and flavored AOSP roms and stock alternatives. As for moving to the G4, it is stupidly close to the new nexus from LG, which I am very much waiting for. My M9 has been a disappointment not by development, but by a crappy radio and piss poor firmware not fully tested.
I want my M9 to be awesome. And I really have OMJ and Viper Rom devs for all their hard work to support the rom. As of right now, we're struggling to find a cure for no camera for the HTC CM12.1 rom. I am stuck waiting for the phone I want to have cm12, for my older one which has better service, and generally a 100% perfect rom. (Sprint HTC M8 on Candy5 is truly amazing).
While I agree the M9 is a failure, the future device you would want to get if you want quick and easy, go nexus, if you want moderately fast, go HTC. Samsung has proven to be extremely hard to root these days. The S5 had a $13k bounty just for root. Good luck in whatever you do end up getting.

---

Coming from another M9er with radio issues, I have considered this same jump to the Nexus but I just don't want something that big. I wish they'd have just made a new Nexus 5.
If the new Nexus is 5/5.5" then I'd likely move as while I like Sense, I have no love for Blinkfeed (it's far left homescreen and gets used max once or twice every few days) and I HATE that HTC is now updating everything in the Play Store, including crap I don't want updated (like Sense Home) so I have to be careful to never "update all" and am forced to go one by one.
GL with the G4 @mswlogo sincerely hope it works out for you

---

I have been loyal to HTC for years starting with the TP1 running Windows Mobile with MightyRom which was the bomb at the time. Then TP2, evo 4G, evo 3d, evo LTE, M7, M8 & now M9. The m9 is my 8th consecutive HTC phone. Part of me wanted to try something new this year especially since Samsung upped it's build quality on the S6 (was thinking about getting an S6 edge) or a G4 maybe a note 5. The M9 was not ready for release it was plagued with radio issues on release to the point where LTE was pretty much useless as apps were firewalled and 3G would dump to 1X make your data experience almost non-usable.
While I can understand your reasons for changing, I don't see the point of coming here to rant. Most of what you were stating is already well known. HTC has never been strong in the radio department and on the hardware level signals were always a little lower than than most of the Samsung devices from my personal testing. The camera HTC dropped the ball 2 years in a row starting with the M7 so when they decided to ditch ultrapixel they were behind and I'm sure they had to scramble since the previous 2 years were scrapped and they had to start over.
It really comes down to opinion and if you wanna go with a G4 good for you, I think it's a great phone. That said my M9 has the best speakers, best build quality, arguably best UI (sense is well liked for me), full control of bootloader with s-off, SD card support (I don't use), Two-Tone metal which I really like and keeps me from switching since all these things are important to me especially the speakers. All winners in my book. Sure the camera isn't the best but I don't really care, it's good enough for me I don't take that many pictures anyway. You could get into things like this on any phone it's just an opinion.
To me the M9 is a good phone, that said HTC could have done a better job this year since really this phone is nothing more than an M8 with better specs and new camera. Other than that there isn't much difference. I don't know why people got so up in arms this year, no different than apple releasing a iphone 5 and then an iphone 5s. If you didn't like the M9 I don't know why you got one for, the only thing that was not documented before release was the half-baked radio causing data issues which we all know Sprint's network still struggles vs some of the others in most areas. The latest software update fixed most the issues and I haven't had too many problems with mine since.
In this day and age with leaks and so many well written reviews with videos there is just no reason you can't make a good decision before hand. Most the things you mentioned were well covered before release, so to act surprised once you get it I just don't understand. This RF comparison was done well over a year ago so when the M9 came out I never expected it to have an awesome radio. Now if you actually have a defective radio, that is another issue and of course is frustrating.
I'm sure if I got a Galaxy S6 edge, a note 5 or a G4 I would come here as well and tell you things I like better and of course things I miss about HTC but this is an M9 section of the forum to discuss the M9, not glorify LG or really any other phone. Enjoy your G4, it's a great phone maybe we will see you next year if the M10 turns out to be a winner.
Bad Boyz rom is awesome btw which is another reason I want to keep this phone. Thanks OMJ

---

I've had HTC phones since about 5 models before the one you listed. So don't tell me what should know before hand. I also I said it turns out to not be the radio. Also in testing the M9 radio is technically supposed to be top dog compared to other top brands. Many of these phones have the same radio and firmware and only difference is antenna implementation.
I was fine with first year of ultra pixel. It was a reasonable choice. Since then it's a joke. I use the camera a lot. M9/M8 is just bad compared to competition. It's usable but no comparison. When I saw 20mega pixel, I thought finally we'll be back with of the rest, no we are NOT and didn't know that really until now.
What really stinks is the photo files are so big they often won't send over mms.
Because I wanted to see if it was the radio causing issues I tried the G4. But it turns out the screen and camera are the main reasons I'm keeping it, not the radio.
I love the htc speakers, but the G4 speaker surprises me.
I don't consider my post a rant. Just sharing my experience with long time fellow htc owners and I've been an HTC owner longer than most here, including you and I upgrade every year.
HTC had to drop the ball big time to make me even look. The long term prospects for HTC are also a factor. we may all be looking for another brand soon. It will take miracle to save them in my opinion.
So I was giving a preview
By the way a lot of former hard core developers are in the samsung forums.
Yes HTC is king of unlocked boot loader. But with carriers and apps watching for root and tether, unlocking isn't all that will be need in the future. So HTC's nitch is becoming less of a make break deal.

---

That's what I hate about people wanting 20+ Mb cameras. I just don't get it, its a camera on a phone which you may upload to social media and send through MMS. You are not going to make a poster size print from a phone camera. Nowadays you need to edit the picture to reduce the size of the file just to send. I personally think the M9 takes great pictures.

---

schmeggy929 said:
That's what I hate about people wanting 20+ Mb cameras. I just don't get it, its a camera on a phone which you may upload to social media and send through MMS. You are not going to make a poster size print from a phone camera. Nowadays you need to edit the picture to reduce the size of the file just to send. I personally think the M9 takes great pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
M9 takes ok pictures. But it's really not even close to Samsung or LG or Apple. Not even in the same ball park.
One huge issue is the M9 is a slow lens. So if your subject isn't moving or you can hold steady and you have enough light, you can get an ok shot (I've had 3 M8's, M9, M7, S5 and G4).
But with the G4 or S5/S6/etc. you just snap it and you get the shot WAY more often than an M9.
And occasionally it is worth cropping a smartphone photo. But M9 photos really look like crap if you zoom them.
And sometimes you do snag a special moment with a smartphone and it's so nice if it's decent Often M9 is ONLY good enough to view on an M9 screen.
Well I like to save photos for viewing on large screen computer (e.g. Flickr).
This is a sample, and this is still severely down sampled. The quality is frame-able at 8x10.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/701/20556046883_d99e7aea8e_h_d.jpg

---

schmeggy929 said:
That's what I hate about people wanting 20+ Mb cameras. I just don't get it, its a camera on a phone which you may upload to social media and send through MMS. You are not going to make a poster size print from a phone camera. Nowadays you need to edit the picture to reduce the size of the file just to send. I personally think the M9 takes great pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My pictures turn out just fine as well, I really don't understand why people complain. My M8 took great low light shots, sure the resolution was too low but they were fine for social media or MMS like you said. If you are doing professional photos you won't be using a phone camera anyway. The G4 has a better camera, whooohoooo! Who cares, not like you are posting raw image format when sharing on facebook or wherever you are sharing. I like my M9 for several reasons, if you don't like it there is a million other great phones to pick from. Camera quality for all the flagship phones is very well documented, so to get a flagship phone only to complain about the camera when none of this is new information makes no sense.

---

Sim-X said:
My pictures turn out just fine as well, I really don't understand why people complain. My M8 took great low light shots, sure the resolution was too low but they were fine for social media or MMS like you said. If you are doing professional photos you won't be using a phone camera anyway. The G4 has a better camera, whooohoooo! Who cares, not like you are posting raw image format when sharing on facebook or wherever you are sharing. I like my M9 for several reasons, if you don't like it there is a million other great phones to pick from. Camera quality for all the flagship phones is very well documented, so to get a flagship phone only to complain about the camera when none of this is new information makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The M9 was SUPPOSED to have a decent camera. Then the software update was SUPPOSED to fix it. Never happened in my opinion. So it was NOT known "up front" the camera was gonna remain a dud of a camera. Much lower resolution cameras do much better. I prefer the M7 camera to the M8 or M9 camera. At least it could do something in low light other cameras can struggle with. M7 also had OIS (yes that was known when announced, that should have been a hint that something is not quite right with HTC and cameras). The dual mics in the M7 for large dynamic range were also fantastic (later removed due to patent infringements) .
Many folks don't just MMS pics. They like to share them and often end up on a larger screen. M9 pics always look dull and look like they came from a flip phone (often because of blur due to slow lens) when you view them on a large computer screen, the G4's do not.

---

Deleted

---

mswlogo said:
The M9 was SUPPOSED to have a decent camera. Then the software update was SUPPOSED to fix it. Never happened in my opinion. So it was NOT known "up front" the camera was gonna remain a dud of a camera. Much lower resolution cameras do much better. I prefer the M7 camera to the M8 or M9 camera. At least it could do something in low light other cameras can struggle with. M7 also had OIS (yes that was known when announced, that should have been a hint that something is not quite right with HTC and cameras). The dual mics in the M7 for large dynamic range were also fantastic (later removed due to patent infringements) .
Many folks don't just MMS pics. They like to share them and often end up on a larger screen. M9 pics always look dull and look like they came from a flip phone (often because of blur due to slow lens) when you view them on a large computer screen, the G4's do not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't call it a dud...IMO, it is a decent camera, not the best, but decent...and that's all I care about when it comes to a camera on a smartphone. All phones have their pros & cons (same w/ carriers)...the M9 (and all HTC devices) pros far out weight the cons.
I've been a loooong time HTC fan, they are the ONLY manufacturer I've used...I don't plan to switch unless they fold or stop innovating...
-Apache, Touch, Diamond, EVO 4G, EVO 3D, EVO LTE, M7, M8, M9

---

OMJ said:
I wouldn't call it a dud...IMO, it is a decent camera, not the best, but decent...and that's all I care about when it comes to a camera on a smartphone. All phones have their pros & cons (same w/ carriers)...the M9 (and all HTC devices) pros far out weight the cons.
I've been a loooong time HTC fan, they are the ONLY manufacturer I've used...I don't plan to switch unless they fold or stop innovating...
-Apache, Touch, Diamond, EVO 4G, EVO 3D, EVO LTE, M7, M8, M9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same the way. Decent camera I agree. I have set up a couple of GS6 for friends and although better camera I still just don't like touchwiz. Yes the GS6 got a better camera this year, who cares. The 0.69 megapixel facebook timeline pictures I don't think people are going to be comparing. If you take pictures for a living, I don't think it will be with an LG phone my goodness.
Not sure how anyone could have expected a "wow" camera this year to beat out Sammy or Apple. If you prefer a G4 good for you, have yourself a cookie. I'm not going to head over to the G4 forum anytime soon why I like my M9 better than the G4.

---

OMJ said:
I wouldn't call it a dud...IMO, it is a decent camera, not the best, but decent...and that's all I care about when it comes to a camera on a smartphone. All phones have their pros & cons (same w/ carriers)...the M9 (and all HTC devices) pros far out weight the cons.
I've been a loooong time HTC fan, they are the ONLY manufacturer I've used...I don't plan to switch unless they fold or stop innovating...
-Apache, Touch, Diamond, EVO 4G, EVO 3D, EVO LTE, M7, M8, M9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously. I've been on HTC for a eons (for long time they were the only choice) I thought the camera was "ok" too. Until I gave the G4 a real spin.
I still have the M9. And I was playing around with both cameras (M9 and G4).
See the attach photo. It's decorative wall switch plate. The room is not brightly lit and neither camera had the flash on full automatic.
The G4 allows 8x Digital Zoom but the M9 is capped lower (I think 4x digital zoom).
So I "zoomed" the M9 on computer to match field of view of the G4 so that it is also at 8x.
Granted this is an extreme stress test. But it shows how massively different the cameras are. Note the M9 is supposed to 20 mega pixel, the G4 is 16.
I pay a good chunk of change for the upgrade every year. And I expect incremental improvements (including the camera). HTC is just not keeping pace.
I LOVE many features of the M9. USM mode of an SD Card is huge for me. Unlocked bootloader is huge. Good development is sometime more important than I admit sometimes (i.e. closet flash-holic)
So it is torture giving those things up. It's also torture seeing HTC tank, because if they were ok financially, I'm sure they would catch up on some the things they are lacking in.
For some snaps I really don't care that much. But for some, I think, oh I wish I had my real camera with me (a Sony Nex 7 formally a Canon 5D-II but I downgraded to the Nex-7 for weight).
For those moments the M9 is often so disappointing. For the G4, it's a pleasant surprise (so was the Samsung S5).
By the way M7,M8,M9 actually do fine on Video. Because that it's only about 1-2 mega pixel per frame (it's down sampled). And HTC has had good Mics, especially early M7's.
There is other times I'm trying to take a macro shot for a circuit board or mechanical issue at work. The higher the quality the better. Most of the time the M9 will get the job done. But higher quality is a real bonus and sometimes can make the difference of capturing what I need or not. So the camera has a wide range applications for me. I knew I was going backwards on camera going back to M8 from S5, but forward on many other things I missed. One huge issue on Samsung's is you trip Knox on Rooting and you are screwed on warranty. And I have been turned away by sprint techs for a rooted phone (that had issues nothing to do with root).
The picture below is just trying to show you the DIFFERENCE. I'm sure part of it is due to OIS on one vs the other.
I'll try M7,M8,M9,G4 soon with it hand held vs tripod-ish and see the difference. I'm curious to see myself. I bet the M7 camera looks similar to M9 (hand held). This test has probably been done. But I'm not sure is M7,M8,M9 has been done in one sitting.
That photo below is telling the M9 is doing about equivalent of 1/4 the mega pixel the G4 is doing (about 4 mega pixel - i.e. at least half the resolution in x and y).
The lens on the M9 is 2 stops slower. The M9 lacks OIS and that accounts for around another stop. 3 Stops is huge on a lot of shots. That's mostly what we are seeing here.

---

mswlogo said:
Seriously. I've been on HTC for a eons (for long time they were the only choice) I thought the camera was "ok" too. Until I gave the G4 a real spin.
I still have the M9. And I was playing around with both cameras (M9 and G4).
See the attach photo. It's decorative wall switch plate. The room is not brightly lit and neither camera had the flash on full automatic.
The G4 allows 8x Digital Zoom but the M9 is capped lower (I think 4x digital zoom).
So I "zoomed" the M9 on computer to match field of view of the G4 so that it is also at 8x.
Granted this is an extreme stress test. But it shows how massively different the cameras are. Note the M9 is supposed to 20 mega pixel, the G4 is 16.
I pay a good chunk of change for the upgrade every year. And I expect incremental improvements (including the camera). HTC is just not keeping pace.
I LOVE many features of the M9. USM mode of an SD Card is huge for me. Unlocked bootloader is huge. Good development is sometime more important than I admit sometimes (i.e. closet flash-holic)
So it is torture giving those things up. It's also torture seeing HTC tank, because if they were ok financially, I'm sure they would catch up on some the things they are lacking in.
For some snaps I really don't care that much. But for some, I think, oh I wish I had my real camera with me (a Sony Nex 7 formally a Canon 5D-II but I downgraded to the Nex-7 for weight).
For those moments the M9 is often so disappointing. For the G4, it's a pleasant surprise (so was the Samsung S5).
By the way M7,M8,M9 actually do fine on Video. Because that it's only about 1-2 mega pixel per frame (it's down sampled). And HTC has had good Mics, especially early M7's.
There is other times I'm trying to take a macro shot for a circuit board or mechanical issue at work. The higher the quality the better. Most of the time the M9 will get the job done. But higher quality is a real bonus and sometimes can make the difference of capturing what I need or not. So the camera has a wide range applications for me. I knew I was going backwards on camera going back to M8 from S5, but forward on many other things I missed. One huge issue on Samsung's is you trip Knox on Rooting and you are screwed on warranty. And I have been turned away by sprint techs for a rooted phone (that had issues nothing to do with root).
The picture below is just trying to show you the DIFFERENCE. I'm sure part of it is due to OIS on one vs the other.
I'll try M7,M8,M9,G4 soon with it hand held vs tripod-ish and see the difference. I'm curious to see myself. I bet the M7 camera looks similar to M9 (hand held). This test has probably been done. But I'm not sure is M7,M8,M9 has been done in one sitting.
That photo below is telling the M9 is doing about equivalent of 1/4 the mega pixel the G4 is doing (about 4 mega pixel - i.e. at least half the resolution in x and y).
The lens on the M9 is 2 stops slower. The M9 lacks OIS and that accounts for around another stop. 3 Stops is huge on a lot of shots. That's mostly what we are seeing here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must have some serious shake going on there buddy. I have never seen my M9 take a picture that blurry even zoomed.

---

Thats maxed zoomed focused on cisco boxes about 30 feet away

---

schmeggy929 said:
You must have some serious shake going on there buddy. I have never seen my M9 take a picture that blurry even zoomed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'd don't even know what I'm taking about that. That is Zoomed 8x so you can SEE the difference !! I zoomed it enough to show (exaggerate if you want) the difference in the cameras.
You skipped the text and just looked at the picture or you didn't understand what I did.
All photos will look like Sh$t if you zoom them enough.
All photos will look "ok" if you zoom them out enough. HTC counts on you never looking at the photo off the phone and never cropping it (and they are often right and you are proof).
The reason the HTC looks like crap is, it bumped the ISO up to 1000 because of the F/2.2 lens. The G4 bumped up to 300.
Turns out they both exposed at 1/10 sec.

---

schmeggy929 said:
Thats maxed zoomed focused on cisco boxes about 30 feet away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because the HTC caps the Max Zoom at half (4x) of what G4 does.
I zoomed the HTC photo on the computer to match the Max zoom on the G4 (8x).
I zoomed the HTC photo another 2x for a EQUAL comparison.
G4 isn't afraid for the user to see 8x zoom on their 16 mega pixel sensor. HTC is afraid for you too see beyond 4x on their 20 mega pixel.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two. We are not talking close or even trade-offs.
I'm NOT suggesting every one needs 8x. I'm just using it as a tool to show the difference on the SAME playing field.
On normal photos the difference will end up being a burry shot or extremely grainy (i.e. dull).
With EXCESS light. The difference in lens and OIS becomes moot.
So outdoors during the day the M9 might be a closer match (I doubt it but it will be closer).
As soon as you go above ISO-200 and/or slower than 1/60 exposer (which is extremely often) the difference becomes huge.
I have spent thousands on lens to gain 1-2 stops.

---

mswlogo said:
You'd don't even know what I'm taking about that. That is Zoomed 8x so you can SEE the difference !! I zoomed it enough to show (exaggerate if you want) the difference in the cameras.
You skipped the text and just looked at the picture or you didn't understand what I did.
All photos will look like Sh$t if you zoom them enough.
All photos will look "ok" if you zoom them out enough. HTC counts on you never looking at the photo off the phone and never cropping it (and they are often right and you are proof).
The reason the HTC looks like crap is, it bumped the ISO up to 1000 because of the F/2.2 lens. The G4 bumped up to 300.
Turns out they both exposed at 1/10 sec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I did read what you did and understand you zoomed to to show the equivalent to the G4. Im sure you are correct and the camera is way better than the M9. Its just weird you zoomed out the M9 4 more times and wall switch plate is so blurry with no pixelating.