With all this talk about cameras and comparing it with other phones like the Note 5 / S6, iPhone 6S, etc.
A little fact I noticed that I haven't seen brought up by reviewers is the 6P's sensor size. It has one of the largest sensors in a PHONE. In fact, the sensor size is equivalent to point and shoots:
Nexus 6P: 1/2.3"
Galaxy S6 / Note 5: 1/2.6"
iPhone 6S: 1/3"
iPhone 6: 1/3"
Xperia Z5: 1/2.3"
Canon Powershot SX610HS: 1/2.3"
Sony Cybershot DSC-RX10 II: 1" :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
During the launch it was mentioned by Huawei and Google that the sensor used in 6P was originally developed for camcorders .. So the large size is understandable and that may also be the reason for that hump design
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It was also part of the reason that OIS was not implemented because it would not fit.
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
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larger sensor = larger area = larger pixels
pixels is what senses light and makes the picture... the more light they absorb the better the picture quality specially in lower light
Smaller than the M8 though I think.
Batfink33 said:
Smaller than the M8 though I think.
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I just did a quick check and the M8 had a 1/3"...so same size as the iphones
mosincredible said:
It was also part of the reason that OIS was not implemented because it would not fit.
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Doesn't the Z5 have OIS? I'm sure it could've been done but would've increase the price of the phone quite a bit. I personally don't think OIS would be worth the cost/benefit for photos. For video sure it helps, but I don't care that much about video.
Granted the Sony's Xperia is not nearly as popular or available as a phone in the states as it is Overseas. When I was in Asia a couple months ago there were Xperias everywhere.
itch808 said:
Doesn't the Z5 have OIS? I'm sure it could've been done but would've increase the price of the phone quite a bit. I personally don't think OIS would be worth the cost/benefit for photos. For video sure it helps, but I don't care that much about video.
Granted the Sony's Xperia is not nearly as popular or available as a phone in the states as it is Overseas. When I was in Asia a couple months ago there were Xperias everywhere.
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The Z5 has digital image stabilization.
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
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Click to collapse
A larger sensor has more surface area allowing it to adsorb more light. Light is the information used to capture an image and a larger sensor will have more of it. Camera sensors and optics are very much limited by physics. There are other things at play like pixel size which will be determined by megapixels over surface area and ISO sensitivity, but generally everything improves as the sensor get larger with the tradeoff of increased size.
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
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Click to collapse
Large sensor=large pixels= less noise in image. Noise is the bane of cameras and will make any pro photographer cringe.
For the same reason Pro level DSLRs are not very high in megapixel (getting less and less valid however) because they can keep the pixel size large on their huge sensors. For a long time the top end Canon and Nikon were only 12.1MP, might not seem like a lot but on a huge sensor it lets in a butt ton of light. This reduces noise which is the biggest issues in cameras. You will notice if you take a picture at night and its really grainy, that is noise and destroys quality. Also the large pixel size lets in more light so at night time exposures can be quicker and less blurry. The main reason why the 6P is keeping up with cameras with OIS, because it can take faster exposures. I can only imagine how good this camera would be at night with OIS.
itch808 said:
I just did a quick check and the M8 had a 1/3"...so same size as the iphones
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Although the M8 had larger sensels, it just had a lot less of them so the sensor was smaller. M8 and M7 had 2µm sensels versus our 1.55µm.
I don't think you've read many reviews...
Lots of reviews have mentioned this and the sensor size has been highlighted by Google.
But the S6 is said to have a 1/2" sensor so 6P can shine for now
mrsean said:
Can someone explain to us photography novices what the advantage of a larger sensor is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The advantages of a large image sensor means that each light pixel is further away from each other creating less electrical noise which translates into "grainy" pictures using high ISOs
There's a camera discussion thread here,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/general/nexus-6p-camera-t3216218
No need for two. :good:
Thread closed.
Darth
Forum Moderator
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Thanks HTC for bring a bigger mp camera to a phone that's suppose to be the little brother of the m8.........
http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/5/...tes-the-companys-flagship-phone-in-a-trimmed
...because we're ALWAYS complaining about the MP on our camera when we just upload the photos to instagram and fb..
You can't say that for ALL users. A lot of people don't need a expensive camera to take pics. Especially if you want to use that pic past Facebook etc. All I'm saying is instead of adding a second camera. HTC could have added more to the m8 to help keep it from being the same camera with a second camera. End of the day 4mp camera is a 4mp camera
When I want to use my pics past loading onto social apps. I use my note 3. But if I want to use this pic to upload then yes either my m8 or note 3 will do the job just fine
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I'll agree that what smartphone camera is "better" depends on how you in particular use the camera. But just because a camera has more MP, does not make it "better" either. We'll have to wait and see if the camera on the One Mini 2 actually yields better quality images than the M8.
Unless you are blowing up or cropping photos a lot, 13 MP is too much and a joke for a camera phone. High MP smartphone cameras really struggle in low light. And unless you are taking pictures outdoors in broad daylight, its often low light.
I'll agree that HTC probably should not have opted for the dual camera on the M8. Kinda cool at times, but also pretty gimmicky. The money probably would have been better spent improving image quality on the single rear camera (even if not to increase the MP).
It's kinda a slap in the face to a certain degree. Here is the new m8 with the same camera with a secondary camera which is mostly gimmicky while nice at the same time. Then they decide to make the new HTC one mini from a 5 mp camera to a 13MP camera...........
Now will it have better pics? Probably not or probably so. For most people it don't matter, but after being in retail when trying to sell a customer the one the camera is its downside cause on PAPER the 4mp camera doesn't sound good at all compared to the other smartphones out in the market. People will buy the mini 2 because of it has higher mp count than the m8. While the m8 blows the mini in other specs that 13MP camera looks a lot better to somebody who doesn't care to have the latest and greatest specs.
While a higher mp count doesn't make a camera phone any better yes, but why bring the same thing to the table for your flagship but have a mid range phone with a better spec camera on paper WHEN it comes to mp count. .
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
903tex said:
but after being in retail when trying to sell a customer the one the camera is its downside cause on PAPER the 4mp camera doesn't sound good at all compared to the other smartphones out in the market. People will buy the mini 2 because of it has higher mp count than the m8.
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Unfortunately, Average Joe is always going to fall for that marketing gimmick of chasing big numbers, without having any real understanding of what they mean. How many times have you seen someone with a fancy, big screen 1080p TV; and the owner just has a standard definition program on it; and not even in the right aspect ratio (so the picture is all stretched out to fill the screen). That kinda crap drives me crazy!
I for one applaud HTC for turning their nose up at the megapixel arms race. Its gotten absurd. I mean seriously, do we really need a smartphone with a 41 MP camera? Of course not (I understand its actually a really good camera, but not because its 41 MP).
903tex said:
While a higher mp count doesn't make a camera phone any better yes, but why bring the same thing to the table for your flagship but have a mid range phone with a better spec camera on paper WHEN it comes to mp count. .
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Click to collapse
That is a really good point. Why push a certain marketing strategy (and one that particularly bucks the trend) for one device, then do nearly the exact opposite for another device.
In any case, I don't think that the Mini 2 will really compete directly with the M8. Price point alone, even the Average Joe Blow is going to know its a flagship versus a "budget" phone. Don't know about the One Mini in particular, but for the most part, any HTC phone aside from the "flagship" tends to sell in extremely low numbers. At least here in the US (don't know about other regions).
redpoint73 said:
Unfortunately, Average Joe is always going to fall for that marketing gimmick of chasing big numbers, without having any real understanding of what they mean. How many times have you seen someone with a fancy, big screen 1080p TV; and the owner just has a standard definition program on it; and not even in the right aspect ratio (so the picture is all stretched out to fill the screen). That kinda crap drives me crazy!
I for one applaud HTC for turning their nose up at the megapixel arms race. Its gotten absurd. I mean seriously, do we really need a smartphone with a 41 MP camera? Of course not (I understand its actually a really good camera, but not because its 41 MP).
That is a really good point. Why push a certain marketing strategy (and one that particularly bucks the trend) for one device, then do nearly the exact opposite for another device.
In any case, I don't think that the Mini 2 will really compete directly with the M8. Price point alone, even the Average Joe Blow is going to know its a flagship versus a "budget" phone. Don't know about the One Mini in particular, but for the most part, any HTC phone aside from the "flagship" tends to sell in extremely low numbers. At least here in the US (don't know about other regions).
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The same reason we need 4k Tv's and 2k screen on smartphones. To keep making them money lol! Exactly why say your not going to follow the trend but all your other phones are right in the trend? Lol but HTC could have tried a little harder for the m8 speaking of the camera of course. The phone is rock solid but don't have these commercials making fun of these mp trends and being different when your other devices join right in with today's trends.
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Some of my favorite shots have come from the camera on my M8. In terms of higher quality, I'm actually looking at the Sony G Lens, since it is supposed to take really nice shots, and is $200 at my local best buy.
Some people such as my self want a phone with camera and some prefer cameras that can be used as a phone.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
903tex said:
You can't say that for ALL users. A lot of people don't need a expensive camera to take pics. Especially if you want to use that pic past Facebook etc. All I'm saying is instead of adding a second camera. HTC could have added more to the m8 to help keep it from being the same camera with a second camera. End of the day 4mp camera is a 4mp camera
When I want to use my pics past loading onto social apps. I use my note 3. But if I want to use this pic to upload then yes either my m8 or note 3 will do the job just fine
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I want to use my pics for something worthwhile, I use my Canon EOS.. otherwise I use a crappy phone camera.
lets all cut the crap. the camera is nice on the M8 and i do agree. to a certain degree. mega pixels don't make the camera. but it sucks for details when blowing up pictures or zooming we dont need 20 mp. but i think we should have something alittle higher
daddioj said:
lets all cut the crap. the camera is nice on the M8 and i do agree. to a certain degree. mega pixels don't make the camera. but it sucks for details when blowing up pictures or zooming we dont need 20 mp. but i think we should have something alittle higher
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Click to collapse
reviews for the one mini 2 have started surfacing. in ideal conditions it is resolving a lot more detail, by a huge margin. but anything other than ideal and the m8 takes it.
i think the 2.0 pixel size is great and all, but i think we couldve benefited a lot for 1.8 sized pixels and an extra megapixel. that configuration shouldn't lead to a large camera hump.
i'm happy with what i got either way, i do miss the old OIS from my old m7. but whatever, the m8 has proven to be a capable shooter. and my nx300 is always on stand by in case i need a real camera
Any advice on rooting the Mini 2. I receive it tomorrow from carphone warehouse (379sterling.) Has the original Mini gained from official CM11 support thus far?
Any insight on how to root my forthcoming mini 2 and gaining cwm and porting roms would be greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know what phone o could potentially port from for the Mini 2.
How difficult to root and install a custom cwm recovery?
Hello community!
I have just bought the new HTC One Mini 2, it is locked with EE network. It looks like I am unable to get the unlock code anywhere. Do you have any suggestion or advice?
Wrong board
what sucks is having a super light sensitive camera.. while living in Florida. It's always bright unless you paint your windows black.
So what if it has a camera with higher MPs. That doesn't make it a better phone than m8. Unless HTC comes up with a device having the same internals as the m8 but a better camera resolution, I don't see what is there to fuss about.
mindmajick said:
what sucks is having a super light sensitive camera.. while living in Florida. It's always bright unless you paint your windows black.
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Click to collapse
I'm not so sure that having a more sensitive sensor (while better for low light situations) necessarily means that there will be too much light in bright situations. The camera controls the sensitivity (ISO based on the old "film speed" terminology) as well as the aperture (f-stop). It might be that the automatic exposure that the camera is trying to achieve (balance between ISO, aperture and shutter time) is too bright for your local conditions. In which case, you can manually lower the exposure by tapping the 3-top menu button in the camera app, tap EV and lower the exposure value.
redpoint73 said:
I'm not so sure that having a more sensitive sensor (while better for low light situations) necessarily means that there will be too much light in bright situations. The camera controls the sensitivity (ISO based on the old "film speed" terminology) as well as the aperture (f-stop). It might be that the automatic exposure that the camera is trying to achieve (balance between ISO, aperture and shutter time) is too bright for your local conditions. In which case, you can manually lower the exposure by tapping the 3-top menu button in the camera app, tap EV and lower the exposure value.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've messed with all the settings. I appreciate the feedback though...
Unfortunately, if i have any picture with a bright spot from the sun the whole picture gets washed out. Full indoor is fine and full outdoor is fine. But daytime pictures indoors with sun coming in the window- washed out. Granted- if i still lived in Philly (or most parts of the country) i doubt it would be an issue.
mindmajick said:
I've messed with all the settings. I appreciate the feedback though...
Unfortunately, if i have any picture with a bright spot from the sun the whole picture gets washed out. Full indoor is fine and full outdoor is fine. But daytime pictures indoors with sun coming in the window- washed out. Granted- if i still lived in Philly (or most parts of the country) i doubt it would be an issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any camera will have issues if there are areas in the frame which are very bright, or spotty lighting (mix of bright and darker spots). Or does it seem worse with the phone? Often forcing the focus to a different spot by tapping the screen helps a lot.
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
Sony
Sony post processing isn't as good as it could be, look at this Xperia Z sample.
If you have a high end Sony phone from the last two years I wouldn't hesitate to say that your photos and video will drastically improve with this new API if implemented well in a good app.
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The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
unidentifier said:
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We were hoping that the API and RAW format was going to arrive in KK as it was rumoured back then. Having access to the RAW data will help, but a noisy sensor is a noisy sensor.
There are some photo comparisons out there of the Nexus 5 running both Kitkat and Lollipop. The improvement in quality is very very noticeable, and I will eat a hat if we don't see some improvement on the Z Ultra too.
I believe it was Forbes that tested the Nexus 5 camera.
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Sm0L said:
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
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It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
ShadowVlican said:
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already a third party camera app for Lollipop that does this. It shoots RAW. The app itself is crappy (according to most users), but it's more of a proof of concept at this point.
H. E. Pennypacker said:
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
Click to expand...
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I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Sm0L said:
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
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But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
madphone said:
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
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Sony's post-processing is the worst.
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor R Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll just have to wait i guess No reason to fight over something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer yet.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
Edit: All that to say, maybe there is hope in the software department.
Johnmcl7 said:
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
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Click to collapse
Triflot said:
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
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Click to collapse
Solid research John and Triflot. Thank you.
Personally, I will be happy if the camera works at all with unlocked bl.
You want me to put the hammer down?
Deleted
leonbarroso said:
Do as I did - buy a semipro camera on blackfriday
Serious photography with smartphone is bull****
And I am a former Lumia 1020 owner
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Why does it have to be 'serious' photography? I have many dedicated cameras from 1in sensor size up to professional full frame setups but none of those cameras are small enough to keep in my trouser pockets all the time, I tried recently going for one of the smallest dedicated cameras I could find but even that was irritating to carry in my trouser pockets alongside the phone. My phone on the other hand is always in my pocket and always to hand so it's ready to go any time when I want to take a photo unexpectedly plus its online connection means the photo is immediately ready to upload the photo if I want to as well. Some of my dedicated cameras have wifi for transferring photos but it's still a fiddle in comparison.
I don't need an amazing camera but I'm just disappointed how poor the Z ultra camera is, I find I use it like an older camera phone where it was only really handy for capturing serial numbers or information I need to quickly jot down whereas I used the Galaxy Note as a camera a fair bit and while the quality can't match the dedicated cameras it could produce reasonable pictures. I'm seriously considering going for a Note 4 and taking the hit on the screen size to get the better camera, it will be a few months before prices are reasonable so that's time to see if Sony announce anything (which I seriously doubt) or anyone else offers anything interesting with a larger screen.
With regards to the Z Ultra sensor, I'm surprised it is BSI as I thought I'd read initially when considering the phone that Sony had taken an older sensor and rebadged it as Exmor RS which made sense. There's not many sources for the camera module but the few I can find agree with Wikipedia as do sources for the Huawei and the Xperia L, is there any way to verify this in software on a Z Ultra? With regards to photo quality on the Xperia L and the Huawei G6, I am surprised by the positive comments even allowing for them being budget phones and the G6 having a faster lens (F2 rather than F2.4 on the Sony's). Then again some of the reviews of the Z Ultra aren't that hard on the camera either so it's difficult to tell objectively, DXOmark haven't tested it (admittedly I'm not convinced by their testing anyway) nor have I seen any particularly objective testing.
John
I'm comparing it to my old HTC 10 and the quality is night and day. It's blurry/fuzzy, the colors are washed out. It reminds me of the quality of my old cheap webcam from 10 years ago.
Because you didn't turn off all the skin toning and skin lighting junk that's on by default. I was able to shoot selfies with more detail than any model would ever want to see on themselves so I know it isn't the camera's fault.
CHH2 said:
Because you didn't turn off all the skin toning and skin lighting junk that's on by default. I was able to shoot selfies with more detail than any model would ever want to see on themselves so I know it isn't the camera's fault.
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No, everything is disabled. It's terrible quality.
Mudig said:
It's terrible quality.
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My testing and photos say otherwise. Like I said, way more detail in the selfies I've taken than most people who sit for me would ever want to see in a photo. It's not the camera.
Hey, coming from a Nexus 6 ... this is a major improvement.
Okay let's settle this, 5 mp camera is not the best out there, especially compared to iPhone 8's new front facing camera or even Samsung's I guess, although I can only tell based on what I see on internet, as I don't own them. Makes me wonder why it's so hard to create a perfect phone? I mean you did almost everything perfectly right, put a damn 8 mp camera with ois or whatever and hit a home run, why did they choose this front facing camera is beyond my understanding
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
Because the reality is that in order to actually see a doubling of resolution, you actually have to quadruple the megapixel count. So to see twice the detail of a 5mp sensor, you would have to use a 20mp sensor. 20mp at selfie cam size would be insane. The cameras that are using 16mp selfie cameras (such as the HTC U11) are actually using the main shooter from the V30. But to squeeze that extra sensor in with OIS would require more room and produce more heat which would cause issues with amp glow on your other sensors. Digital imaging can be a real P.I.T.A. even with dedicated cameras. Cellphone cameras are a miracle that they even produce anything worthwhile. And that's usually due to being conservative in your approach to what hardware you use.
CHH2 said:
Because the reality is that in order to actually see a doubling of resolution, you actually have to quadruple the megapixel count. So to see twice the detail of a 5mp sensor, you would have to use a 20mp sensor. 20mp at selfie cam size would be insane. The cameras that are using 16mp selfie cameras (such as the HTC U11) are actually using the main shooter from the V30. But to squeeze that extra sensor in with OIS would require more room and produce more heat which would cause issues with amp glow on your other sensors. Digital imaging can be a real P.I.T.A. even with dedicated cameras. Cellphone cameras are a miracle that they even produce anything worthwhile. And that's usually due to being conservative in your approach to what hardware you use.
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Thanks! I already learned something interesting today Is that the reason why the Nokia 8 and the HTC U11 have larger bezels as well in order to have enough room to tackle these technical challenges?
emmanuelw said:
Thanks! I already learned something interesting today Is that the reason why the Nokia 8 and the HTC U11 have larger bezels as well in order to have enough room to tackle these technical challenges?
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Yes, bezels really only exist to hide hardware that they haven't figured out how to downsize or place elsewhere. To get tiny bezels, you have to use tiny camera, earpiece, and proximity sensor hardware or just get rid of them. OIS units make things much bigger as you have to put a ring of motors around the object you're stabilizing. Earpieces/speakers take up a lot of space. I'm guessing Google used the headphone jack space to add more battery and the second speaker, with the second speaker adding more bezel. Proximity sensor is probably the smallest thing in the bezels. Display drivers used to be a big contributor (Moto 360 flat tire was a display driver if I remember right) but with the modern OLED panels they just, er, tuck 'em.
Not passing judgement on the quality of the selfie cam, but I notice that as with the main camera, it too has a "wide angle" setting.
But with only the single camera, necessarily this means that the non-wide setting is digitally zoomed, plus I'd bet there's heavy software correction going on to get rid of all of the wide angle distortion. Perhaps that's asking too much from a 5 MP sensor?
However, I rarely take selfies, and when I do, I'm often trying to squeeze in the other people that are with me, or some scene in the background, so maybe I'll find the native wider angle appealing? Hard to tell in-store with all the florescent lighting.
Mudig said:
No, everything is disabled. It's terrible quality.
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Agreed, turned all that off too and it still looks like crap.
Maybe find something better looking to shoot? The camera does really well.
CHH2 said:
Maybe find something better looking to shoot? The camera does really well.
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Lol wow dude is talking about a selfie this guy says find something better to shoot lmao.
I've never taken an awful photo with the front facing V30 camera. I really don't understand how anyone thinks it's awful.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
From my experience, it only does poorly in low light, that is, compared to 2017 flagships. I don't think it's nearly as bad a many claim it is.
If you look at a lot of of comparisons with the between the likes of the note 8, iphone x and pixel 2, it holds up really well. The biggest difference is really between the pixel 2 and pretty much every other flagship front facer, it has by far the best front facing cam on the market by a good margin imo. The v30 front cam can look really good, is just dosen't produce quite as much detail as the others, and maybe lacks in dynamic range a bit.
If you turn on flash in low light, you see better results. It’s not real flash obviously but I’ve been impressed when it gets it right.
maybe youre ugly lol jk
Hi
I used both the 6 and friends 6 Pro and the results are different completely.
I do know that the Pixel 6 Pro is using the Samsung GN1, but how we can be sure that Google is using the same camera sensor on the 6?
Tried to find out using AIDA and other apps but it won't show the sensor name..
Pixel 6 sensor is also Samsung GN1
Dayuser said:
Pixel 6 sensor is also Samsung GN1
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I dont see they mentioned it in the manufacturer site.
Put them Side by side with same lighting conditions youll notice difference between the two.
What kind of differences? Great if you did a comparison side by side example here.
UXELLR said:
What kind of differences? Great if you did a comparison side by side example here.
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I don't have the files but the main key differences are:
Pixel 6:
Less saturated.
Most photos the subject are lack of brightness.
Less fine details.
Selfie cam is just lack of details.
More noisy camera output (dirty photos)
HDR is just a joke.
Most photos are lifeless..
On the other hand Pixel 6 Pro:
Wider Dynamic range.
Way less noise than the counterpart.
More fine details.
HDR is better, not by much but the difference is there.
Selfie cam is way better, lets leave the selfie cam aside because it's
an different camera module (11mpx vs 8mpx).
GUARDIANBD said:
I dont see they mentioned it in the manufacturer site.
Put them Side by side with same lighting conditions youll notice difference between the two.
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They don't have to mentioned. It is said that sensor is 50MP 1/1.31" with 1.2 μm pixels. There is no other sensor with that specs.
Hmm i removed the tempered glass that i applied, will check today if it fixed my photo taking experience.
I do know that "glue" is applied and the heat from the phone might cause blurriness due to that.
I've had the phone for a couple of days now ant the battery life is stellar but the camera is such a disappointment. Compared with the S22 Ultra it lets in less light and the pictures are overall darker. Same goes for low light pictures, the S22 Ultra is consistently brighter in all scenarios. It reminds me of the difference between my iPhone 13Pro and my S22 Ultra last year the former always capturing more light. To be honest I was expecting the opposite to be true with all the reviewers clamoring about the S23 Ultra's better low life performance and camera overall. I'm really not impressed so far.
Anyone else still in possession of both phones? What's your experience been like? Any suggestions? Did I miss something in the setting? So many questions
Clear cam data, try a hard reboot and clear system cache. Try in safe mode.
Carefully go through -all- the cam settings and options.
Return it if you don't like it for a cash refund.
Are you using the 12 MP default option instead of 200 MP? The 12 MP is said to give the best results on colors and contrast when shooting in low light.
"Binning pixels like this increases their effective size, allowing them to gather more light and detail. So the ISOCELL HP2 can bin every four pixels to effectively make them 1.2μm in size and produce 50-megapixel images, or bin 16 for even larger 2.4μm pixels and 12.5-megapixel images."
blackhawk said:
Clear cam data, try a hard reboot and clear system cache. Try in safe mode.
Carefully go through -all- the cam settings and options.
Return it if you don't like it for a cash refund.
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Done. No dice. The camera still lets in less light on the S23U. In the settings I noticed that Camera assistant is missing. Must be a One UI 5.1 thing. Do you also have the S22 and S23 Ultra? Is that the reason for your suggestions? Are you seeing different results?
I'm upgrading from S22U (SnapDragon) to S23U and the few comparison shots I've taken I found that the S23U does capture slightly more detail, but there's not much difference at all. Remember this is the initial firmware for the phone though so the camera performance should hopefully receive some updates over time.
p.dixon0 said:
I'm upgrading from S22U (SnapDragon) to S23U and the few comparison shots I've taken I found that the S23U does capture slightly more detail, but there's not much difference at all. Remember this is the initial firmware for the phone though so the camera performance should hopefully receive some updates over time.
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For sure. I totally get that. The thing is all the reviewers said that the s23u captured more light and that has yet to materialize for me. They were using the same software. To your point, the software should get better but I feel as though this is a hardware thing. But I'm no expert.
Paul_Deemer said:
Are you using the 12 MP default option instead of 200 MP? The 12 MP is said to give the best results on colors and contrast when shooting in low light.
"Binning pixels like this increases their effective size, allowing them to gather more light and detail. So the ISOCELL HP2 can bin every four pixels to effectively make them 1.2μm in size and produce 50-megapixel images, or bin 16 for even larger 2.4μm pixels and 12.5-megapixel images."
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If by 12MP you mean 3:4 absolutely. Didn't change anything.
mrnovanova said:
If by 12MP you mean 3:4 absolutely. Didn't change anything.
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I don't have my phone yet but there is a setting somewhere that you can choose between 200 MP, 50 MP or 12 MP in settings.
mrnovanova said:
Done. No dice. The camera still lets in less light on the S23U. In the settings I noticed that Camera assistant is missing. Must be a One UI 5.1 thing. Do you also have the S22 and S23 Ultra? Is that the reason for your suggestions? Are you seeing different results?
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Try shooting raws, at least 3 f/stops more exposure and WB correction. Downside is the post processing effort/time required.
The issue may simply be the firmware instruction set. Samsung is notorious for dialing things in after the release. I'm still happily running N10+'s on Pie and Q. I demand a dual drive capable device. I'm not pleased at all by the newer Android versions from Gookill either.
The dead zone between pixels on such a small sensor with such a huge pixel count is concerning as is the individual pixel microlense quality. Even 20mp is pushing it. Canon full frame sensors are maxed out at about 26mp.
Regardless of the camera learning it's capabilities, limitations and shooting effectively within those boundaries is what grabs keepers.
I haven't had issues so far with the camera outputting dark images. I've tried some shots inside at night (with main cam), shots outside, shots with main 12, 50 and 200mp modes, 3x, 10x. So far I'm pretty satisfied and also noticed a huge improvement in processing especially for 3x and 10x outside which, on my s21 ultra, I was always doing those shots with gcam. Now I could actually consider using stock, though I need to test way more extensively to know for sure.
Might help if you provide us with some pictures of the issue you're having, maybe side by side with your s22 if you still have it.
Hello, please update camera software-color are
oversaturated and unreal ( for example Red color
at most), reduce processing and sharpening. My
Samsung Note 10plus has better results! Thanks
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Is it the camera or the display?
Check/compare images on a properly color calibrated monitor... yeah, it's a can of worms.
PhilMorin said:
I haven't had issues so far with the camera outputting dark images. I've tried some shots inside at night (with main cam), shots outside, shots with main 12, 50 and 200mp modes, 3x, 10x. So far I'm pretty satisfied and also noticed a huge improvement in processing especially for 3x and 10x outside which, on my s21 ultra, I was always doing those shots with gcam. Now I could actually consider using stock, though I need to test way more extensively to know for sure.
Might help if you provide us with some pictures of the issue you're having, maybe side by side with your s22 if you still have
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I'll try tomorrow
PhilMorin said:
iI'll t.
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mrnovanova said:
I'll try tomorrow
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In low light hold the phone as still as possible.
Use a nearby fixed object to brace it or yourself on when possible.
Using the spen as a remote shutter release will help too.
mrnovanova said:
I'll try tomorrow! This app is so wonky for me. I'll try tomorrow and post the pics.
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blackhawk said:
In low light hold the phone as still as possible.
Use a nearby fixed object to brace it or yourself on when possible.
Using the spen as a remote shutter release will help too.
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Click to collapse
I got a Benro Tripod with a Phone attachment mounted on top. Gonna try that when I get the Ultra Monday doing some dark photos and using the pen as remote shutter release. Will also do same with the S22U before sending it back to Samsung.
PhilMorin said:
I haven't had issues so far with the camera outputting dark images. I've tried some shots inside at night (with main cam), shots outside, shots with main 12, 50 and 200mp modes, 3x, 10x. So far I'm pretty satisfied and also noticed a huge improvement in processing especially for 3x and 10x outside which, on my s21 ultra, I was always doing those shots with gcam. Now I could actually consider using stock, though I need to test way more extensively to know for sure.
Might help if you provide us with some pictures of the issue you're having, maybe side by side with your s22 if you still have it.
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Okay I think this worked. I'll let you guess which is which.
Edit: @blackhawk was spot on. They were both from the S22u. I have such a hard time with the app. I re-uploaded the correct pics. Left S23u Right S22u.
Paul_Deemer said:
I got a Benro Tripod with a Phone attachment mounted on top. Gonna try that when I get the Ultra Monday doing some dark photos and using the pen as remote shutter release. Will also do same with the S22U before sending it back to Samsung.
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I loathe tripods. Learned to improvise and shoot in low light with my Canon Pro cam 15 years ago.
I'll use anything at any height or angle I can reach as a brace; with practice you can land one of a kind keepers no tripod can grab.
Smart phones are poor shooting platforms; light weight so there's little stabilizing inertia and lousy handholds. Poor shutter release and controls. However they lend themselves to bracing well enough. In a case you don't have to worry much about what you brace it on...
The traditional elbows in, wide staggered foot stance, hold your breath works too. Shooting technique counts...
mrnovanova said:
Okay I think this worked. I'll let you guess which is which.
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Poor example; different shooting heights skews the results. The AF lock on point is also different so the bottle's print is out of focus in the one shot. Light metering and colors look near identical in both.
blackhawk said:
I loathe tripods. Learned to improvise and shoot in low light with my Canon Pro cam 15 years ago.
I'll use anything at any height or angle I can reach as a brace; with practice you can land one of a kind keepers no tripod can grab.
Smart phones are poor shooting platforms; light weight so there's little stabilizing inertia and lousy handholds. Poor shutter release and controls. However they lend themselves to bracing well enough. In a case you don't have to worry much about what you brace it on...
The traditional elbows in, wide staggered foot stance, hold your breath works too. Shooting technique counts...
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That might work for Photos but not very well for videos especially when you are zooming in 20x. Here's is an example where I have S22U on a tripod and zoom in on a waterfall from across the canyon and pan up and down. No way you gonna do it that smoothly holding it in your hands even braced. So for videos I love the tripod. It's the very lightest one they make and perfect for cell phones or light cameras. Change YouTube resolution to 1080p for best viewing.