The Z4 Tablet is possibly my dream tablet, it has a great screen, microSD slot, good battery life and it seems dev-friendly.
I've got no Sony experience and I see surprisingly little custom ROM development. How 'dev-friendly' is this tablet? Does Sony provide source codes, drivers? Are they easy in unlocking bootloaders and flashing stuff like radios? Does it seem likely custom post-Marshmallow ROMs will be cooked in 1,5-2 years from now on?
do some research!
e.g. here "Anybody work on root?" much off topic posts unfortunately
there are two section with the title "Development" here ...
look at the phones: Z3+ and Z5 (nearly the same sources)
and all you need with almost useful documentation in SONY's Developer world:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/
DHGE said:
e.g. here "Anybody work on root?" much off topic posts unfortunately
there are two section with the title "Development" here ...
look at the phones: Z3+ and Z5 (nearly the same sources)
and all you need with almost useful documentation in SONY's Developer world:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/
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Click to collapse
I admit my question was a bit lazy, but it'd be pretty easy for people like you with lots of experience/knowledge on this Sony platform to give me a general idea.
I ordered a Z4T, but while reading this subforom while waiting for the shipment, things start to itch me a bit.
I'll anwer my own questions the way I see it now: Sony is pretty developer-friendly by providing source code and build instructions, but it's pretty buggy and there are very few developers doing stuff for the Z4T. I guess it's because of the bad availability of the device and the relatively small user base. The people @ FXP build ROMs, but I haven't heard much about how useful these builds are. If anything, I heard people downgrading from the 5.1.1 build. Rooting is only possible by unlocking the bootloader and flashing @AndroPlus' custom kernel. His current TWRP build has a bug that makes it impossible to restore a device backup.
Sony provides the option for unlocking the bootloader, but you'll completely lose your warranty. Furthermore, the TA partition will be irreverably changed and you'll lose functionality.
Marhsmallow has been announced, so there's that.
SONY's devices are good compromise for me
@jelbo
Good summary!
My opinion:
The SONY devices are good hardware. I like them because they are water resistant since I lost a phone after cycling in heavy rain.
I have a Tablet xperia Z with CyanogenMod on it. Android 5.1
The start with that 3rd party ROM was slow and it was quite buggy. Also battery life was worse than with stock ROM.
I have a SAMSUNG Galxy S5 phone. They have Knox-protection on their devices. Quite evil compared to SONY. Because it was released with Kitkat I could root it via exploit and keep Knox untriggered. I could get CyanogenMod, even Marshmallow Alphas for the phone. But the drivers are not that good and the battery life with stock is very good (up to four days for me).
So I will keep that phone on stock and I used Titanium Backup to get rid of SAMSUNG's bloatware.
SAMSUNG do not provide documentation and many of their SOCs are proprietary - no chance to do any development for these devices.
Long post short: SONY is very open and relatively easy to hack on their devices.
Better (now) in price and features than the Nexus devices IMO. I would never buy a device without any chance to do development on it.
I think the bug in TWRP will get fixed soon (has bitten me once).
Thanks for your kind reply
DHGE said:
@jelbo
Good summary!
My opinion:
The SONY devices are good hardware. I like them because they are water resistant since I lost a phone after cycling in heavy rain.
I have a Tablet xperia Z with CyanogenMod on it. Android 5.1
The start with that 3rd party ROM was slow and it was quite buggy. Also battery life was worse than with stock ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds familiar. In my experience with the last few phones I've had, AOSP-based ROMs were always a tad slower and less battery-friendly than stock or stock based ROMs. For example, the stock 'Google Play Edition' ROMs ran like a dream on my HTC One m7, but others were always less smooth / battery friendly.
So, for the Z4T I'm not partularly worried about the lack of 3rd party ROMs. I'll be fine with stock rooted. But for the longer term, because of the unpopularity, I think it's unlikely to see much going on in a year from now on and that kind of makes me doubt my purchase.
I have a SAMSUNG Galxy S5 phone. They have Knox-protection on their devices. Quite evil compared to SONY.
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Click to collapse
Yes, but not more evil than Sony I think. Samsung's bootloader unlock 'trips' Knox and it'll disable features like secure storage and services that depend on it. It's also irreversible. It's an awful lot like Sony's irreversible TA partition 'tripping'.
Because it was released with Kitkat I could root it via exploit and keep Knox untriggered. I could get CyanogenMod, even Marshmallow Alphas for the phone. But the drivers are not that good and the battery life with stock is very good (up to four days for me).
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Click to collapse
I could root my Galaxy S6 using an exploit, without tripping Knox. I'm running 5.1.1 with an engineering bootloader, while still having my Knox untriggered. It's a luxury I'm not gonna have on the Z4T, unless an exploit will be found.
SAMSUNG do not provide documentation and many of their SOCs are proprietary - no chance to do any development for these devices.
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Click to collapse
Yes, it's one of the reasons I want to avoid a Samsung as my new tablet. Exynos is a black box, so custom, stock-based ROMs will be the best you can get. BUT, I'm doubting now. Custom, stock-based ROMs are fine with me - as you mention, battery life is great. And on top of that, Samsung is so popular that lots of development is being done. I think chances are bigger to see the Marshmallow successor being ported for older Samsung devices than we'll see on this Sony Z4 Tablet in the future. But that's an assumption, I don't have Sony experience, but I see things re pretty dead here, even though the device was released quite a long time ago.
Long post short: SONY is very open and relatively easy to hack on their devices.
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Click to collapse
I'm not really seeing that yet, but again, I've only looked at the Z4T now.
Better (now) in price and features than the Nexus devices IMO. I would never buy a device without any chance to do development on it.
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Click to collapse
The microSD is an essential part for me. If the Pixel C would have had a microSD-slot I'd have chosen that. Development and future updates are a huge selling point for Nexus devices.
I think the bug in TWRP will get fixed soon (has bitten me once).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's hope so.
Hopefully the Z4T will get some more love soon, as I have just sent my Pixel C back and taken a punt at a open box Amazon warehouse deal last night with 40% off the LTE
I love my Z3CT, Z3C and Ultra, which have had great support from the devs, so am expecting the Z4 to be the best hardware of the lot, but would also love a root method while keeping the bootloader locked for now.
Heres to hoping perhaps MM will lead to some kernel exploits.
scoobydu said:
[...] as I have just sent my Pixel C back [...]
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What made you return your Pixel C?
I love my Z3CT, Z3C and Ultra, which have had great support from the devs [...]
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Click to collapse
Did it take a while to get to that point? Do you think the Z4T will have the same support?
jelbo said:
What made you return your Pixel C?
Did it take a while to get to that point? Do you think the Z4T will have the same support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get me started on the Pixel C from Google UK pricing error on day 1 and their refusal for a week to refund or swapout 32g for 64g devices, due to their error; then I had a hardware fault with the screen not responding after 24hrs of use. I found their support just awful More issues were being reported in the xda forum and I decided I wasn't going to spend £550 to beta test for google. Nice solid device but heavier that the Z4 and sliding the keybard across the keyboard to remove it, just made me nervous of scratching something everytime I did it.
To be honest the Z4 forums are very quiet, but so were the pixel c's; as a few people were commenting.
I had to root my Z3 Tab by loading the Z3 phone firmware and rooting that, as that had a kernel vunerability and the kernel on the Z3 tab didn't.
Once the Z3 phone firmware was loaded and rooted, I could backup my TA partition and reload the Z3 tab firmware, rooted.
Its generally the phones that get root and the tabs have to utilise what they can, unless of course a dev has the tab.
The tab forums got much busier once the device had a less risky root method.
Sad to see that Nut hasn't got a recovery done, but I am assuming that due to root only being available by unlocking and losing TA, so limited testers, but haven't had time to read the history yet.
I have to say though that the Z4 is fantastic in comparison to the Pixel C and I am very glad I have reverted to the device that I know especially at £360 for the LTE version + keyboard on Amazon open box. First time using and the device is pristine. To be fair the Z4 is many iterations of getting it right and the Pixel is googles first try. Once its at Pixel C v4 it will probably be very good!
Heres to hoping MM is officially released soon, so the chances of rooting may get better.
from Nut
This is the reason why I didn't release XZDR for the Z3+/Z4/TabZ4 yet, too much difference with the Shinano and older device trees.
Edit:
That should be solved with 2.9 though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems the 64 bits is a material change, so things need to progress in 2.9 from my early readings.
scoobydu said:
Dont get me started on the Pixel C from Google UK pricing error on day 1 and their refusal for a week to refund or swapout 32g for 64g devices, due to their error; then I had a hardware fault with the screen not responding after 24hrs of use. I found their support just awful More issues were being reported in the xda forum and I decided I wasn't going to spend £550 to beta test for google. Nice solid device but heavier that the Z4 and sliding the keybard across the keyboard to remove it, just made me nervous of scratching something everytime I did it.
To be honest the Z4 forums are very quiet, but so were the pixel c's; as a few people were commenting.
I had to root my Z3 Tab by loading the Z3 phone firmware and rooting that, as that had a kernel vunerability and the kernel on the Z3 tab didn't.
Once the Z3 phone firmware was loaded and rooted, I could backup my TA partition and reload the Z3 tab firmware, rooted.
Its generally the phones that get root and the tabs have to utilise what they can, unless of course a dev has the tab.
The tab forums got much busier once the device had a less risky root method.
Sad to see that Nut hasn't got a recovery done, but I am assuming that due to root only being available by unlocking and losing TA, so limited testers, but haven't had time to read the history yet.
I have to say though that the Z4 is fantastic in comparison to the Pixel C and I am very glad I have reverted to the device that I know especially at £360 for the LTE version + keyboard on Amazon open box. First time using and the device is pristine. To be fair the Z4 is many iterations of getting it right and the Pixel is googles first try. Once its at Pixel C v4 it will probably be very good!
Heres to hoping MM is officially released soon, so the chances of rooting may get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply, good info. I'm glad to hear some reassuring comments on the Z4T. Looks like you had a great deal as well. In the Netherlands they're hard to get. I payed €635 for the WiFi model... I'm still doubting a little bit to go for a discounted Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 for €380 though. I read it'll even get Marshmallow in April. Price difference is pretty big and there's lots of stuff for it already.
I'll have a look in some Xperia phone subforums on XDA.
jelbo said:
Thanks for your reply, good info. I'm glad to hear some reassuring comments on the Z4T. Looks like you had a great deal as well. In the Netherlands they're hard to get. I payed €635 for the WiFi model... I'm still doubting a little bit to go for a discounted Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 for €380 though. I read it'll even get Marshmallow in April. Price difference is pretty big and there's lots of stuff for it already.
I'll have a look in some Xperia phone subforums on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there are no deals on the Z4 Tab in the UK and all the new prices are the same retail price.
Thats why I decided to take a chance on the Amazon one, as I could return it if it was damaged or anything; and normal 12 months warranty with Amazon.
For me I haven't had a Samsung since my Tab 7.7 and wouldn't personally have another, but each to their own. The devs were always complaining at Samsung not releasing all the source code to their SoC's, wheereas Sony seemed to be more dev friendly.
The Z3 Tab is fantastic if you didn't mind the 8inch, but I am hoping once the Z3+ root is forthcoming and general 64bit root/recovery is done, then we will have some progress; he says, not being able to help the devs on whats seems a lot of work.
jelbo said:
I've got no Sony experience and I see surprisingly little custom ROM development. How 'dev-friendly' is this tablet? Does Sony provide source codes, drivers? Are they easy in unlocking bootloaders and flashing stuff like radios? Does it seem likely custom post-Marshmallow ROMs will be cooked in 1,5-2 years from now on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame that such a good device is so low supported by free developers even though it seems it's more open by the Sony in comparison with Samsung.
I noticed that some people think in the thread that not so much users have this device. I have an old phone so called HTC desire HD which was released in the faraway 2010, it is excellent supported as it even has the contemporary android 6.0. I don't believe that there are more HTC decide HD users rather than xperia tablet z4 users. Moreover, I see as my comrade-users of our device crying ? everyday on a Russian 4pda.ru site, that we wait but there's no a good root method, there is no a good description or a video showing us how does the only custom ROM work. What works and what is broken. And just not seeing good news over the course of several months. Of course, I am very disappointed in dramatic fashion, but I hope The change will come.
Thank you for attention!)
cut the drama
- you should not compare a phone to a tablet (numberwise)
- look into the fora for phones Z3+/Z4 and Z5
they have nearly identical SoCs, differences a sometimes build options
- there is a HUGE xperia cross devices forum here with tons of additional info
- the Z4 Tablet became available in June 2015
- the first sources from SONY showed up in .... June 2015
- I rooted the device in July - having done no Android programming or rooting before
- I ordered the device after researching (see below) and before there was root available because my findings showed that there would be sources and documentation from SONY so that if all else fails I would get later a custom rom or could even roll my own
- a video for "seeing" developing/hacking? Dream on...
- there is lots of documentation (even video) available, maybe no video on how to do a web search or an xda search
- searching (and reading and trying things out) worked for me - coming from SAMSUNG phones with no prior development experience on Android ... TRY IT
DHGE said:
- you should not compare a phone to a tablet (numberwise)
- look into the fora for phones Z3+/Z4 and Z5
they have nearly identical SoCs, differences a sometimes build options
- there is a HUGE xperia cross devices forum here with tons of additional info
- the Z4 Tablet became available in June 2015
- the first sources from SONY showed up in .... June 2015
- I rooted the device in July - having done no Android programming or rooting before
- I ordered the device after researching (see below) and before there was root available because my findings showed that there would be sources and documentation from SONY so that if all else fails I would get later a custom rom or could even roll my own
- a video for "seeing" developing/hacking? Dream on...
- there is lots of documentation (even video) available, maybe no video on how to do a web search or an xda search
- searching (and reading and trying things out) worked for me - coming from SAMSUNG phones with no prior development experience on Android ... TRY IT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good summary.
Small point, but the rooting element is by unlocking the bootloader, which not all will want to do. It is though an option that exists and we are thankful for those that have done so in order to progress the dev support.
... other than google, I mean?
Point in case: Samsung SM-T560. new on the market at the end of 2015 (I think), runs android 4.4.4 right now, patch level from may 2016.
Point in case: Samsung S5, runs Android 6.0
Point in case: Samsung S6 Edge, runs Android 6.0.1.
Current Android version from upstream is 7.1.1, right?
Or to actually get to the point: which brand should I set my eyes for if I want to get my updates BEFORE they are obsolete?
Right now I'm shopping for a new tablet. And I would like one with LTE so the google pixel is not it.
[Lemmy] said:
... other than google, I mean?
Point in case: Samsung SM-T560. new on the market at the end of 2015 (I think), runs android 4.4.4 right now, patch level from may 2016.
Point in case: Samsung S5, runs Android 6.0
Point in case: Samsung S6 Edge, runs Android 6.0.1.
Current Android version from upstream is 7.1.1, right?
Or to actually get to the point: which brand should I set my eyes for if I want to get my updates BEFORE they are obsolete?
Right now I'm shopping for a new tablet. And I would like one with LTE so the google pixel is not it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want Google android updates very fast then go for Google phones. Google gives first updates to their phones even the updates in development or in preview stage then after other phones like HTC,SONY,LG or many others.
I don't think a google PHONE is an option when I'm looking for a TABLET. even more so as the pixel tablet does not even have LTE.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bgce2efur8tq1ot/Screenshot_2017-05-13-17-13-44.png?dl=0 She said it was not compatible yet it got the wifi alliance http://www.wi-fi.org/content/search-page?keys=SM-A310F :confused: I think it's true because only the a5 2016 and a7 2016 got it but the a3 2016 hasn't?:crying:
Based on the existence of the certificate the update exists and is/was already under testing.
The only possible reason not to release it if they f*cked up the optimization of touchwiz for nougat like they did before a few times, resulting in failure to release updates to below flagship devices (like S4 mini).
The A36 is marketed as an ultra mid range device, so if it happens again despite their promises they could probably say goodbye to mid range buyers for once.
Let me explain: power users know Android. They (we) know that with every major update it's more and more optimized and less demanding on hardware, but Samsung seems to have a trouble following that trend with tw. They almost do the opposite, while people demand updates, and it's also in the interest of Google, so they have already warned manufacturers to do their best on the matter, specially Samsung after their past neglections. This topic has a great influence on our preferences and despite the other fields Samsung devices excelling in our eyes, it could change the situation. Now, most simple users choose devices based on our opinions. They ask us for advices. If I prefer Samsung devices, 100-150 people around me will prefer Samsung too based on my opinion; but if I prefer another brand instead, they will buy their devices instead. Now imagine how the numbers come with a lot more power users exisiting in the world, not just me.
The nougat update for A36 (having the broadest market amongst other A and J series devices thanks to it's handy size, yet powerful hw and quality housing) is a big opportunity to show us they have changed their attitude towards mid-range users, something people and Google are waiting for a long time, so they know it would be a disaster for them to back out from it in the final moments. I hope they won't.
I hope they release it but it explains why a7 and a5 2016 got nougat before the a3
link is broken
...if I get Nougat on my A3 2016...I won't ever enter this forum again.
Spreading negative information like this by pointing broken links as source is 3rd grade child stupidity.
It's not my fault if it doesn't work I saw it myself
Anyway if you want the link it's here https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9w3d54sk2fvguj/Screenshot_2017-05-18-18-20-37.png?dl=0. Next time don't swear at me.
arif8912 said:
Anyway if you want the link it's here https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9w3d54sk2fvguj/Screenshot_2017-05-18-18-20-37.png?dl=0. Next time don't swear at me.
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Click to collapse
These support guys don't know what they are saying... "I'm afraid it's not compatible" => there is no such thing. If they make a compatible build than it is compatible, simple as that. Also, when I've asked them, I got the response that IT IS GOOGLE WHO MAKES THE UPDATES, THEN THE CARRIERS REVIEW IT AND RELEASE IT. Yes, this is how it should be ideally if there would be a flexible hardware abstraction layer, but sadly it is Samsung who has to build the update after Google releases the source, and before carriers can deploy it... When I had to rate the conversation I wrote them that their support department has no access to proper information even about HOW updates work which is very troubling for conscious users who chose Samsung because of Android (+their quality hardware) and expect them to properly provide updates for their ultra mid range devices too, not just for their overpriced flagships.
http://www.samsung.com/tr/support/newsalert/100061 A3 2016 update got delayed to 29th may-2nd june
Hey XDA! I just wanted to ask if the s3 will get android P? Oreo will be ready in summer for it. Samsung release 2 major android version for their tablets.
Freedomsi said:
Hey XDA! I just wanted to ask if the s3 will get android P? Oreo will be ready in summer for it. Samsung release 2 major android version for their tablets.
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Click to collapse
The Tab S got Lollipop and Marshmallow, the Tab Pro didn't get a single update and got stuck on Kitkat.
In short: I don't think anybody has the answer to your question.
Freedomsi said:
Hey XDA! I just wanted to ask if the s3 will get android P? Oreo will be ready in summer for it. Samsung release 2 major android version for their tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See the guides, news, and discussion sub forum. Seems it's coming.
Sent from my [device_name] using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Well, considering that we are still waiting for Oreo, if the S3 does get Android P, it would likely only arrive around mid 2019.
Would you be happy to wait that long? I wouldn't.
Having had my S3 since June 2017, I will most likely have moved on to another tablet by that time. (due to battery and performance issues that are likely to crop up as the tablet ages)
I'm keeping an eye on the tablet market as it seems likely that we will see a high-end Chrome tablet sometime in 2018, which in my opinion would likely be a better alternative to an Android P tablet.
I dont think so...
Google is ditching support for tablets from android P and up so if we get a update most likely we will get a Chrome OS update or a very very slim chance of Tizen but most likly samsung will just leave it as it is. Sometimes i wish samsung did not use Android anymore it is causing then sooooo many problems
mika4305 said:
Google is ditching support for tablets from android P and up so if we get a update most likely we will get a Chrome OS update or a very very slim chance of Tizen but most likly samsung will just leave it as it is. Sometimes i wish samsung did not use Android anymore it is causing then sooooo many problems
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google is ditching its tablets not support for tablets.
Incorrect info.
No reason why Samsung won't continue to produce tablets and update the software for them as long as there is profit in the market. Probably even more so now Google have dropped its own tablets
Google only provide the base source code of each OS, it's up to the OEM's to tailor it to their needs.
Also just to note, historically higher end Samsung devices get 2 major updates.
Seeing as this device was released with Nougat, it's quite likely to receive one more update to Andoid P after receiving Oreo.
I'd like to get to as close to vanilla as possible. Not a fan of Samsung's ui or bloat. I'm coming from the tab s1 which had some pretty good roms. There are none for this device and it's almost 6 months old. I would make one myself but lack the necessary skills
Most of the newer top end Samsung Tablets get very little developer support since they cost so much. Happens with every new tablet having people asking where the developer support is for it. Samsung newer UI much nicer and any vanilla roms would take away most of the functionality that makes the tablets great. Apparently the S5e has some dev support.
Problem is Samsung seems to be super slow with there updates for the S7.
I've owned the S7+ SM-T970 for like just a week and I'm already feeling impatient waiting still running off the Oct. update while I keep hearing about about UI 3.0 update hitting there flagship phones.
Do you think at some point down the road when or before OEM support ends we can look forward to some working roms or Treble GSI options ?
Markeee said:
Problem is Samsung seems to be super slow with there updates for the S7.
I've owned the S7+ SM-T970 for like just a week and I'm already feeling impatient waiting still running off the Oct. update while I keep hearing about about UI 3.0 update hitting there flagship phones.
Do you think at some point down the road when or before OEM support ends we can look forward to some working roms or Treble GSI options ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone gets the update at the same time (don't know how they handle when and who should receive the update). I only got a November update a few days ago (though some claimed to have already gotten it) and it offered few improvements. The tablet still feels the same as usual.
As one must choose between custom ROMs and Knox (especially warranty), I'm currently at a loss myself, and for the time being I haven't heard of anyone trying (or succeeded in) booting a GSI on S7/S7+ probably because of this, although it's theoretically possible (again thanks to Treble). At least we now have TWRP... it might be better if one day custom kernels become available.
So far this is the only tablet I know that can offer 120Hz display. My current phone (Razer Phone 2 which is also 120Hz-capable) still doesn't have a specialized ROM but I can already run GSIs on it with adequate performance. For new devices, going for GSI might be easier, but performance-wise it still has a way to go compared to specialized ROMs.
Think it has to do with the fact that snapdragon is locked on samsung