I have owned both Z3 Compact and Z5 Compact. I remember the Z3c camera being utterly crap while Z5c being acceptable but less than satisfactory. Have to say that the camera on X Compact is on par with "modern" standards. Daylight Images is sharp (if not a little bit over sharped), saturated and without color cast. Sony has indeed made steps from the two predecessors.
Night photos is still a little bit smeared. However, the pictures are bright and rich in tones. It produces way way better night pictures than my iPhone SE. The dark purple vignette in Z5c is also corrected.
However, I suggest again not to trust the superior auto and HDR processing in Xc. HDR photos and "backlight corrected" scene mode produce over processed photos which are oversaturated and unrealistic (I'm sure u will not like them). Using manual mode usually yield better results.
two more surprise: 1. when half pressed the shutter, the image on screen becomes sharper and free from vignette. Sony must have done a hell lot of post processing to improve image quality. 2. The image quality when zoomed in under 8MP is not bad. Maybe some sort of oversampling technology is used. For example: this picture with 2x zoom mimicking a 50mm focal length.
Please refer to photo samples in my album (shot in Glasgow, UK), and please share ideas and more photos shot by Xc.
P.S: SOT is over 6 hours under heavy usage. 10-15% less than Z3c and 20% better than Z5c. Everything is snappy and the screen is absolutely beautiful (nearly indistinguishable from AMOLED).
Thank you for the sample photos. Your review of the device seems pretty accurate. Sony still has trouble with soft details and excess noise, but the over-all color reproduction and daytime exposure is much improved over the Z3C. I can't take a daytime shot with my Z3C without it looking washed out and over-exposed. Manual mode helps, but its too tedious for something that should be so simple.
Hi @ all,
2 Important questions, related to 2 design flaw of previous compact phone (yes, i've own z1 compact, z3 compact, z5 compact):
1) Does the camera external lens is STILL made by plastic (blurred and scratched just after some days in all compact sony phones) or finally the decided to switch to glass as EVERY phone maker?
2) Does the camera support raw api? You can try just by installing "manual camera" from play store, and try to shot raw photo.
Thanks in advance,
WZ
Wing_Zero85 said:
Hi @ all,
2 Important questions, related to 2 design flaw of previous compact phone (yes, i've own z1 compact, z3 compact, z5 compact):
1) Does the camera external lens is STILL made by plastic (blurred and scratched just after some days in all compact sony phones) or finally the decided to switch to glass as EVERY phone maker?
2) Does the camera support raw api? You can try just by installing "manual camera" from play store, and try to shot raw photo.
Thanks in advance,
WZ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I have responded in your original post. Hope those help.
qwsdert4 said:
I have owned both Z3 Compact and Z5 Compact. I remember the Z3c camera being utterly crap while Z5c being acceptable but less than satisfactory. Have to say that the camera on X Compact is on par with "modern" standards. Daylight Images is sharp (if not a little bit over sharped), saturated and without color cast. Sony has indeed made steps from the two predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the Z3c and Z5c camera is much better now with mod but you'll need root.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/sonyz5-family-unlocked-xz-xc-camera-t3463148
For the Z5c, we ported the XC cam to Z5c with 23MP scene mode unlocked.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-cyberian-camera-t3267271
You can use this one on Z3c.
TheEndHK said:
Actually, the Z3c and Z5c camera is much better now with mod but you'll need root.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/sonyz5-family-unlocked-xz-xc-camera-t3463148
For the Z5c, we ported the XC cam to Z5c with 23MP scene mode unlocked.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-cyberian-camera-t3267271
You can use this one on Z3c.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder how the z5compact with either of the above mods compares to the x compact out of the box camera. From what I understand we have root on the z5c but it will take quite some time before we get it for the x compact, I'm afraid.
charliebigpot said:
I wonder how the z5compact with either of the above mods compares to the x compact out of the box camera. From what I understand we have root on the z5c but it will take quite some time before we get it for the x compact, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XC should better with IR sensor and laser focus assisted plus a more updated camera driver in system. However, the mod cam got 23MP unlocked in scn mode when shooting with scene I'm afraid Z5c even more better now.
It will real take a while for XC not only about rooting but you'll also need to wait for the DRM patch available for XC to fully get back the quality of camera after bootloader unlocked. We've been waited for four months on Z5/Z5c/Z5p last time, not sure about XC/XZ.
TheEndHK said:
XC should better with IR sensor and laser focus assisted plus a more updated camera driver in system. However, the mod cam got 23MP unlocked in scn mode when shooting with scene I'm afraid Z5c even more better now.
It will real take a while for XC not only about rooting but you'll also need to wait for the DRM patch available for XC to fully get back the quality of camera after bootloader unlocked. We've been waited for four months on Z5/Z5c/Z5p last time, not sure about XC/XZ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right - to me it seems that support for the Sony phones is gradually fading, I had a z3compact, I've been following the z5c forums and maybe it's just me, but it seems as if it's getting more complicated to root/exploit, hence less developers are interested.
I'm really torn between buying the Z5c (just because of the mods) or the XC.. price doesn't really matter, since it's only about 50$.
charliebigpot said:
Right - to me it seems that support for the Sony phones is gradually fading, I had a z3compact, I've been following the z5c forums and maybe it's just me, but it seems as if it's getting more complicated to root/exploit, hence less developers are interested.
I'm really torn between buying the Z5c (just because of the mods) or the XC.. price doesn't really matter, since it's only about 50$.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The development is there though can't compare to Z1c/Z3c. Z5c got one custom rom(xpower) which is working good and two custom stock kernels( AndroPlus and OM5Z), Z5c also got some thermal patches to fix the heat issue. Not to mention it got TA partiton backup no avoid warranty with root.
XC hardware is better(other than no water resistance and gpu slower) but it will real take a long time for DRM patch and TA backup. At this time, Z5c is much more mature bcoz XC just born out. I'll recommend Z5c in this year with better support and cheaper price. For the user who don't root no doubt to get XC.
I'm thinking to up to XC next year when DRM, TA, cam mod all ready. I won't consider XC now bcoz without DRM the camera at low light is bad, no point to get a camera worse than Z5c, root is almost a must to me.
The Sony sales is decreased so the development is slow now.
TheEndHK said:
The development is there though can't compare to Z1c/Z3c. Z5c got one custom rom(xpower) which is working good and two custom stock kernels( AndroPlus and OM5Z), Z5c also got some thermal patches to fix the heat issue. Not to mention it got TA partiton backup no avoid warranty with root.
XC hardware is better(other than no water resistance and gpu slower) but it will real take a long time for DRM patch and TA backup. At this time, Z5c is much more mature bcoz XC just born out. I'll recommend Z5c in this year with better support and cheaper price. For the user who don't root no doubt to get XC.
I'm thinking to up to XC next year when DRM, TA, cam mod all ready. I won't consider XC now bcoz without DRM the camera at low light is bad, no point to get a camera worse than Z5c, root is almost a must to me.
The Sony sales is decreased so the development is slow now.
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Click to collapse
At this point I'm even wondering if it's not worth buying a Z3C, I don't think that there was a big difference between the z5c and z3c from a hardware perspective and the mods seem to work on both. I think the only advantage of the z5c was the better water proofing.
charliebigpot said:
At this point I'm even wondering if it's not worth buying a Z3C, I don't think that there was a big difference between the z5c and z3c from a hardware perspective and the mods seem to work on both. I think the only advantage of the z5c was the better water proofing.
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Click to collapse
Buying a Z3c? Do you mean XC? If you are speaking to Z3c, the different is still large enough there. The Z3c camera focus is very bad, Z5c performed much much better in this area with phase detection focus added. The Z5c screen and speaker also a bit better.
TheEndHK said:
Buying a Z3c? Do you mean XC? If you are speaking to Z3c, the different is still large enough there. The Z3c camera focus is very bad, Z5c performed much much better in this area with phase detection focus added. The Z5c screen and speaker also a bit better.
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Click to collapse
I did mean the Z3c but it's unbelievable that where I live there's almost no price difference between the z3c and z5c. I think I'll wait until more people bought the XC and then we'll see - cheers for your pov!
charliebigpot said:
I did mean the Z3c but it's unbelievable that where I live there's almost no price difference between the z3c and z5c. I think I'll wait until more people bought the XC and then we'll see - cheers for your pov!
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Click to collapse
Z3c .....
1. camera focus real bad
2. white balance is bad even worse than z1c
3. many have touch screen issues after 1 year
4. no android 7.0 from sony
5. front cam 2MP
I don't see any reason to get z3c again, either z5c or xc will blow it.
TheEndHK said:
Z3c .....
1. camera focus real bad
2. white balance is bad even worse than z1c
3. many have touch screen issues after 1 year
4. no android 7.0 from sony
5. front cam 2MP
I don't see any reason to get z3c again, either z5c or xc will blow it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is quickly getting off topic, but there are some tradeoffs that you didn't mention:
The Z3C has:
1. Better battery life
2. Less heat issues (camera app doesn't shut down as often)
3. Personally, I think is the better looking phone
But back to the photo quality. It appears that Sony makes tiny improvements with each phone release, but none of them are enough to truly compete with Samsung and Apple. Even LG and One Plus have better cameras the past couple of years. I wish Sony would finally utilize Optical Image Stabilization so we can take better pictures. It's nice to have, but I don't need cinema quality videos from my cell phone. I'm not a movie creator, but if I was, I'd probably use a proper video recorder.
PuffDaddy_d said:
This is quickly getting off topic, but there are some tradeoffs that you didn't mention:
The Z3C has:
1. Better battery life
2. Less heat issues (camera app doesn't shut down as often)
3. Personally, I think is the better looking phone
But back to the photo quality. It appears that Sony makes tiny improvements with each phone release, but none of them are enough to truly compete with Samsung and Apple. Even LG and One Plus have better cameras the past couple of years. I wish Sony would finally utilize Optical Image Stabilization so we can take better pictures. It's nice to have, but I don't need cinema quality videos from my cell phone. I'm not a movie creator, but if I was, I'd probably use a proper video recorder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A bit(long) off-topic to XC now.
I've to disagree all. It's not easy to distinguish which is better nowadays in 2016, they've all got pros and cons. In the real old day, Samsung and Apple were overall much better. I've owned Z1c, Z5c, S6(sold), G3 and my friends got G5, IP6 and IP6s plus.
Z3c got excellent battery with KK, on LP/MM the battery performance decreased that had been confirmed by so many guys on net. They are pretty much identical now or Z3c leads at a small margin. Z5c does heat, the best firmware is .224 in my experiences but since charliebigpot mentioned he will root the phone, heating isn't a big problem to him bcoz we got some thermal mods working good though the phone still hot. Z1c with metal bump got best looking, Z3c and Z5c are at identical level.
In Andorid, Samsung win hands down during at focus, camera speed, photo/video artifacts handing and OIS but the white balance(heavy yellow cast) and auto exposure(always over or lower exposure) is the worst I've ever seen. The true is I never use S6 to take any serious photo but S6 is good as a camera phone or post to facebook/Internet, most people prefer Samsung bcoz they are using in this way, just shot some casual photo.
LG got best color and quality and functions. LG is the best now but Samsung somewhats better on focus and OIS. Apple stable overall and very easy to use but Sony and LG indeed got better color. The conclusion is Samsung and Apple are the fastest, more predicable so most guys prefer them for daily live photo but that doesn't mean they are best, they are just the best casual camera.
The Z5c focus is way better than my Z1c like 3x faster and accurate, not a tiny improvement.
Is it just me or the pictures with this phone are incredibly grainy? I have the impression the processing software tries to over-sharpen the photos, so in the end they look full of digital artifacts and very grainy... This is also due to the fact that in auto mode the ISO level is always very high! So it is way better to use the manual mode. However, this does not completely solve the issue... and shooting with the app "open camera" delivered better results for me.. I am considering to return the phone, because a good camera is important for me, but I'm really uncertain because I love the phone in any other respect...
vispinet said:
Is it just me or the pictures with this phone are incredibly grainy? I have the impression the processing software tries to over-sharpen the photos, so in the end they look full of digital artifacts and very grainy... This is also due to the fact that in auto mode the ISO level is always very high! So it is way better to use the manual mode. However, this does not completely solve the issue... and shooting with the app "open camera" delivered better results for me.. I am considering to return the phone, because a good camera is important for me, but I'm really uncertain because I love the phone in any other respect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edit:, I attach 2 photos:, one shot in manual mode (0016) and one in auto mode (0017). The one shot in manual mode is for me more realistic (the room was not that bright as in the other one, where you also see the parts of the wall closest to the light are over-exposed). However, zoom in at the door edges, they are soft and blurry. I have never seen an issue like this. Is my device defective or is the Sony camera so crappy. Maybe my expectations are too high because I come from. Lumia 930... Please advise because I'm considering returning the phone...
vispinet said:
Edit:, I attach 2 photos:, one shot in manual mode (0016) and one in auto mode (0017). The one shot in manual mode is for me more realistic (the room was not that bright as in the other one, where you also see the parts of the wall closest to the light are over-exposed). However, zoom in at the door edges, they are soft and blurry. I have never seen an issue like this. Is my device defective or is the Sony camera so crappy. Maybe my expectations are too high because I come from. Lumia 930... Please advise because I'm considering returning the phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like your hand shook in the darker image. But yes, the Auto Mode will always prioritize cranking up ISO in low light photos, and the noise reduction is hyper aggressive, resulting in soft looking images. This is how Sony programs all of its phone cameras. I would never buy a Sony phone for its camera alone; otherwise, you will be disappointed. It's not a terrible phone, it just doesn't look as good or work as fast as other point and shoot cameras.
Don't get me wrong, in the end I don't find the camera to be so average... Actually I wish photos looked softer.. I think the phone over-sharpens everything and probably that is the cause of all the grains you see especially in the dark areas... E.g. I took a pic of my girlfriend in a restaurant. My hand shook and was expecting to see a blurry image. What I saw was grains all over... It's like the phone tries to sharpen things at all costs. In these cases I would prefer to see a blurry image so that I notice right away that the photo is not good and I have a chance to re-take it.. Like this you only see it when you zoom a bit (even to real size) and the photo looks terrible...
Maybe this is just camera app issue?
Related
So I was going to test my Smartwatch ZGPAX S5 vs an old Fuji Finepix 2650 (2MP) and decided to just test the Xperia Z as well and use the NEX-6 as the control image if you will.
Nothing scientific..just me wasting some time for a quick experiment!
The images have been named to identify the device and which APP was used to take the image as well.
This is under a normal room lightning condition as going into even lower light levels I do not expect miracles from any of them aside from the NEX.
I did a quicker test before taking a pic of a violin on a wall and on that test the Xperia really looked bad so I would have to do that again to confirm if that is the case. In fact, it looked so bad that I was expecting it to be one of the worst during this Cobra Commander test but it was not. I think the A Better Camera did the best job for the Xperia although closely followed by Camera Zoom.
Regards
PS Just in case, after you click on the small preview to open the new window, you can click on it again for the full size image if you want to compare all the detail.
I am not camera veteran / expert
Can you make conclusion to average user ?
Thanks
That's kind of an unfair test. The NEX (which I own and love) is a DSL class camera for semipros. The rest including the ZU (which I own and love too) is kiddie stuff in comparison. I mean, the Finepix is from 2003
dancress said:
That's kind of an unfair test. The NEX (which I own and love) is a DSL class camera for semipros. The rest including the ZU (which I own and love too) is kiddie stuff in comparison. I mean, the Finepix is from 2003
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahah the NEX-6 was more of the Control image to see which one got closer to it
I would say if you want to improve the low light performance of the Ultra slightly from the horrible compression of the stock camera, either go with A Better Camera or ProCapture. Pro Capture has a noise reduction option which takes a couple of images and processes them, and there is something similar on A Better Camera as well.
Or get a NEX camera if you really are serious about your photos :victory:
i wasn't too serious either but getting a NEX is good advice anyway. best camera i ever had, including several large canons. you won't shoot a vogue cover with it but for everything else there's IMHO no better price-performance-ratio.
Oh yes, the NEX lineup is outstanding. I have seen some pros mixing their PRO camera pics with the NEX and you cant really tell which is which ...quite impressive!
BTW, I just tested a HTC Amaze with the 8MP camera which when it came out seem to have been received positively and dare I say the Ultra actually looks better!
Testing without the flash benefit of course which is sort of cheating I guess lol
UPDATE:
Just added the HTC Amaze also an 8MP camera.
Just a small update.
Added another pic with stock camera but ISO 50 and I will say, it looks pretty good to me. In fact, when its possible to use that type of ISO without blurring the image, I would go for the stock camera.
Hello everyone. I've had a Note 2 since it came out 2012, and so far the Z2 is the only phone that I think is a good enough replacement. I want to get one in December for my birthday, but one thing isn't clear to me.
In a lot of reviews, the camera quality, especially in 20mp manual mode, isn't that good, it looks out of focus or has blurry spots. Other, more recent reviews, show a better camera quality, and when I handled one myself in a showroom for an hour or so, testing it against my N2, the quality was much better, like what I expected from this phone.
Were the bad reviews, like the one on GSMarena, made with pre-production phones, or are there earlier revision phones out there, with worse cameras than the more recent ones? I'm going to order mine online, I don't know if it's from newer or older stock, and as much as I browsed the forum, it isn't clear to me if there are camera differences between revisions.
Its actualy not that bad
Ill attatch some pics i took a couple months ago
sandulea said:
In a lot of reviews, the camera quality, especially in 20mp manual mode, isn't that good, it looks out of focus or has blurry spots. Other, more recent reviews, show a better camera quality, and when I handled one myself in a showroom for an hour or so, testing it against my N2, the quality was much better, like what I expected from this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
20 mp manual mode may not be satisfactory, i agree. but you should decide if 20mp is necessary or necessary in what circumstances.
What Sony did is concentrating on 8mp Auto mode with extensive image post-processing and 8mp photos are pretty good (for me).
Camera isnt the only thing I've looked for in a smartphone. Looks and material quality, battery life, dust and water ressistance... together with a maybe-not-the-best-but-good camera did it for me.
Using the auto mode (8mp) is indeed fine.
Im perfectly satisfied, maybe because I dont expect much from a phone. I mean, sure, the megapixels are high these days but that doesnt change the fact that the sensors are so small and quality will always be inferior to a "real" camera.
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
Sony
Sony post processing isn't as good as it could be, look at this Xperia Z sample.
If you have a high end Sony phone from the last two years I wouldn't hesitate to say that your photos and video will drastically improve with this new API if implemented well in a good app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
unidentifier said:
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We were hoping that the API and RAW format was going to arrive in KK as it was rumoured back then. Having access to the RAW data will help, but a noisy sensor is a noisy sensor.
There are some photo comparisons out there of the Nexus 5 running both Kitkat and Lollipop. The improvement in quality is very very noticeable, and I will eat a hat if we don't see some improvement on the Z Ultra too.
I believe it was Forbes that tested the Nexus 5 camera.
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Sm0L said:
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
ShadowVlican said:
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already a third party camera app for Lollipop that does this. It shoots RAW. The app itself is crappy (according to most users), but it's more of a proof of concept at this point.
H. E. Pennypacker said:
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Sm0L said:
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
madphone said:
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
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Sony's post-processing is the worst.
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor R Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll just have to wait i guess No reason to fight over something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer yet.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
Edit: All that to say, maybe there is hope in the software department.
Johnmcl7 said:
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
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Triflot said:
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
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Solid research John and Triflot. Thank you.
Personally, I will be happy if the camera works at all with unlocked bl.
You want me to put the hammer down?
Deleted
leonbarroso said:
Do as I did - buy a semipro camera on blackfriday
Serious photography with smartphone is bull****
And I am a former Lumia 1020 owner
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Why does it have to be 'serious' photography? I have many dedicated cameras from 1in sensor size up to professional full frame setups but none of those cameras are small enough to keep in my trouser pockets all the time, I tried recently going for one of the smallest dedicated cameras I could find but even that was irritating to carry in my trouser pockets alongside the phone. My phone on the other hand is always in my pocket and always to hand so it's ready to go any time when I want to take a photo unexpectedly plus its online connection means the photo is immediately ready to upload the photo if I want to as well. Some of my dedicated cameras have wifi for transferring photos but it's still a fiddle in comparison.
I don't need an amazing camera but I'm just disappointed how poor the Z ultra camera is, I find I use it like an older camera phone where it was only really handy for capturing serial numbers or information I need to quickly jot down whereas I used the Galaxy Note as a camera a fair bit and while the quality can't match the dedicated cameras it could produce reasonable pictures. I'm seriously considering going for a Note 4 and taking the hit on the screen size to get the better camera, it will be a few months before prices are reasonable so that's time to see if Sony announce anything (which I seriously doubt) or anyone else offers anything interesting with a larger screen.
With regards to the Z Ultra sensor, I'm surprised it is BSI as I thought I'd read initially when considering the phone that Sony had taken an older sensor and rebadged it as Exmor RS which made sense. There's not many sources for the camera module but the few I can find agree with Wikipedia as do sources for the Huawei and the Xperia L, is there any way to verify this in software on a Z Ultra? With regards to photo quality on the Xperia L and the Huawei G6, I am surprised by the positive comments even allowing for them being budget phones and the G6 having a faster lens (F2 rather than F2.4 on the Sony's). Then again some of the reviews of the Z Ultra aren't that hard on the camera either so it's difficult to tell objectively, DXOmark haven't tested it (admittedly I'm not convinced by their testing anyway) nor have I seen any particularly objective testing.
John
Hi guys, I am undecided between z3c and z5c and I don't know what to choose. I know that if I wanna be sure about battery I should choose z3c but for a future proof phone I should go for z5c which is a real good upgrade of z3c in everything except probably the cpu that is almost a downgrade. What do you guys suggest to this poor guy? I've got another question. This time I read that you can unlock the bootloader easier. Do you lose the drm if you do that and do you lose any feature if you lose it? Like low light post processing or stuff like that that happens on z3c?
Same as all xperias, you will lose low light in camera and some image/screen enhancements, but there is way to get them back with fixed stock/custom kernel
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I have my experience with both.
I left Z3C just because of louisy build quality - 4 times display assembly peeled off the body (within 1y!) which automatically means no water proof and sooner later
also problems with low upper speaker volume and unreliable proximity sensor.
Could be that many people even do not realize it but problem with Z3C build quality is there in every piece, it's simply not sturdy enough design.
Beside that was Z3C really great phone but build quality sucks.
Thus I got my money back and switched to Z5C.
Some things are worse - slightly worse battery life (MM) but still high above average, gets easier warm - well known problem with 810
Many things are better - sturdy build quality, audio quality, camera, no cover on USB, no fingerprints on back, GPS is great
Fingerprint reader sucks but I don't care (XPOSED + NoLockHome works great for me).
Frankly speaking, I was really skeptical whether swiching from Z3C to Z5C is a good step while reading many negative feedback
and coments from disappointed users.
And you know what? I am really happy I decided to go for that. :good:
unotretresette said:
Hi guys, I am undecided between z3c and z5c and I don't know what to choose. I know that if I wanna be sure about battery I should choose z3c but for a future proof phone I should go for z5c which is a real good upgrade of z3c in everything except probably the cpu that is almost a downgrade. What do you guys suggest to this poor guy? I've got another question. This time I read that you can unlock the bootloader easier. Do you lose the drm if you do that and do you lose any feature if you lose it? Like low light post processing or stuff like that that happens on z3c?
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Click to collapse
your better off with the z5c.....Its a good phone, sure it has its pros and cons but it still a great phone. Price of it should go down more since theres rumors that a new "compact phone" known as the "X Compact" is gotta be released in September
The Z3/Z3c is very easy to get touch screen problem and Sony officially said that Z3c no Android 7.0 few days ago so I'll say stick with Z5c for future proof.
Z5c battery performance is identical to my Z1c, not as good as Z3c but above average. Rear and face camera is Z5c better especially Z5c face camera is 5MP while Z3c only 2MP, Z5c screen and speaker should be improved too.
We can backup TA partition before unlock BL now no avoid warranty. We also got DRM patch so after rooted no downgrade low light camera quality. After rooted and lower CPU clock or apply thermal patch, the hot issue is more acceptable now.
Sony Xperia 5 II:
* standard camera, no tinkering
* pro camera, auto mode
* pro camera, P mode with HDR, no other tinkering
Oneplus 6:
* standard camera
* Marco's GCam 6.1 MJL v3.7 Miniflex, day mode, AWB off, no other tinkering
(Sorry for the un-professionality of the shots and the general mess.)
I'm finding the Xperia 5II camera and pro camera... underwhelming to say the least. I'm sure that pro camera, used by people who are used to more complex non-smartphone cameras can give great photos, but to less camera-savvy people like me the results are... terrible. Coming from a great gcam port that basically performed perfectly right out of the box (big kudos to Marco's amazing work), I find it pretty disappointing to see this.
I can only hope that a good gcam port comes out fast.
(The Xperia otherwise is a pretty darn good phone imho, aside from some minor annoying things that hopefully will be improved/fixed in next updates.)
(x-posted from my thread on r/SonyXperia)
I don't understand why everyone is praising the xperia cameras. They are just not as good as many other phones. I come from an s10 plus and pictures were just better on the s10, especially in low light. My real issue is that there is NO way to take 16:9 video with manual focus (or even tap to focus) on either the simple camera app or the pro: The simple camera doesn't have manual focus and the pro is locked at 21:9 for some reason... This is simple functionality, yet Sony in their all "camera wisdom" couldn't provide it on any of their apps....
I agree that a good (or at least functional) gcam port is our only hope (as is for any xperia device). Sony is full of marketing BS on every xperia release about their cameras and somehow they always manage to be underwhelming and a few generations behind.
palamosteliaro said:
I don't understand why everyone is praising the xperia cameras. They are just not as good as many other phones. I come from an s10 plus and pictures were just better on the s10, especially in low light. My real issue is that there is NO way to take 16:9 video with manual focus (or even tap to focus) on either the simple camera app or the pro: The simple camera doesn't have manual focus and the pro is locked at 21:9 for some reason... This is simple functionality, yet Sony in their all "camera wisdom" couldn't provide it on any of their apps....
I agree that a good (or at least functional) gcam port is our only hope (as is for any xperia device). Sony is full of marketing BS on every xperia release about their cameras and somehow they always manage to be underwhelming and a few generations behind.
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I like them because the colors are almost accurate and not blown up....
But everyone to their own i guess
yekollu said:
I like them because the colors are almost accurate and not blown up....
But everyone to their own i guess
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I wasn't talking about colors, colors are subjective and everyone has different taste. Noise however, isn't. You can zoom on both pictures and see that the 5 ii has more noise and "blurriness" compared to the oneplus. And this has been a tradition with xperia phones as long as I remember. Always a few generations behind on image clarity. I don't think anyone likes noise on their pictures... Professional reviews are misleading, since they are usually done in good (or even professional) lighting on a stand, so they are not representative of real life. If you are not a ...tourist, most of your pictures will be indoors and/or in random lighting scenarios with auto settings, on your hand, for a fast and easy picture. Xperia phones produce the worst results in those real life scenarios every time. If you want to take pictures on a stand, after tinkering with settings for the best results, you should be using a DSLR not a phone imo.
KiraV said:
Sony Xperia 5 II:
* standard camera, no tinkering
* pro camera, auto mode
* pro camera, P mode with HDR, no other tinkering
Oneplus 6:
* standard camera
* Marco's GCam 6.1 MJL v3.7 Miniflex, day mode, AWB off, no other tinkering
(Sorry for the un-professionality of the shots and the general mess.)
I'm finding the Xperia 5II camera and pro camera... underwhelming to say the least. I'm sure that pro camera, used by people who are used to more complex non-smartphone cameras can give great photos, but to less camera-savvy people like me the results are... terrible. Coming from a great gcam port that basically performed perfectly right out of the box (big kudos to Marco's amazing work), I find it pretty disappointing to see this.
I can only hope that a good gcam port comes out fast.
(The Xperia otherwise is a pretty darn good phone imho, aside from some minor annoying things that hopefully will be improved/fixed in next updates.)
(x-posted from my thread on r/SonyXperia)
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I've just compared both standard photos.
IMHO
* Xperia colors are more natural (more red/blue, OnePlus has more green)
* I can see more noise on OnePlus and more sharp edges, seems a bit artificial
* Xperia photo is less sharp/more soft, especially in the background. Not sure but it may be related with bigger sensor and lower DoF
Are both photos were taken on the same day/the same time ? The posters in background are different
I have both the 7pro and the 5ii and the 5ii is way more satisfying with photos for me, my experience is completely the opposite. I will say the biggest downside is consistency with the sony camera, but when it takes a great shot it is significantly more satisfying than a lucky 7pro shot and it should be since the sensor is better.
palamosteliaro said:
I wasn't talking about colors, colors are subjective and everyone has different taste. Noise however, isn't. You can zoom on both pictures and see that the 5 ii has more noise and "blurriness" compared to the oneplus. And this has been a tradition with xperia phones as long as I remember. Always a few generations behind on image clarity. I don't think anyone likes noise on their pictures... Professional reviews are misleading, since they are usually done in good (or even professional) lighting on a stand, so they are not representative of real life. If you are not a ...tourist, most of your pictures will be indoors and/or in random lighting scenarios with auto settings, on your hand, for a fast and easy picture. Xperia phones produce the worst results in those real life scenarios every time. If you want to take pictures on a stand, after tinkering with settings for the best results, you should be using a DSLR not a phone imo.
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I'm not sure what photos you've been looking at but the Xperia is completely smooth compared to the OnePlus. Yes, the Xperia is also a bit softer because of the shallower DoF and because of less aggressive sharpening which Sony is known to do. But based on those photos I'd take the Sony any day.
I have to say that coming from OnePlus 6 into Sony Xperia 5 II I totally agree that the camera in standard mode the OnePlus performs better.. but the manual mode in the Sony Xperia if you know about photography it definitely out performs the OnePlus 6.. I'll recommend reducing the brightness in the standard mode and you will see a better quality pic in the Sony Xperia.
zwirek75 said:
I've just compared both standard photos.
IMHO
* Xperia colors are more natural (more red/blue, OnePlus has more green)
* I can see more noise on OnePlus and more sharp edges, seems a bit artificial
* Xperia photo is less sharp/more soft, especially in the background. Not sure but it may be related with bigger sensor and lower DoF
Are both photos were taken on the same day/the same time ? The posters in background are different
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Same day, same time, around 10 minutes difference I think? What's the difference you're seeing? The Xperia makes everything much more pink-ish, if that's what you're referring to. Imho from how the light was irl the gcam got the most accurate colours, my room does have a kinda "washed out" light when it's cloudy and the lights are off.
Also why would I lie? I got accused of lying and about the irl colors on the Xperia reddit thread ("do you have green light? " when these were made without turning the light on...), now you're saying the background looks different... What would I even gain by lying, I'm not a pro, I don't get money, I'm not even a reviewer, just a rando posting a simple comparison of what I saw and instead I got insulted and accused of lying... for simply stating my opinion? Wtf. I just wanted to make a comparison before selling my old OP6, that's all. I did the comparison, I sold the op6, I'm happy with the Xperia, I'm just disappointed by the camera. Simple camera app is too simple, the Pro one is too complex and even after days of watching tutorials I can manage to get decent pictures only outdoors with a good light... which might be great for a photographer - but if I was a photographer I would use an actual camera tbh -, but for normal real life situations in which you don't have time to configure everything (especially if you want to take pictures of animals - i.e. my cats) and the light 90% of the times is not perfect... the Xperia performed worse imho.
EDIT: btw here's your proof. Luckily I sent the pics via Bluetooth to the new phone before selling the old one.
luis.manuel.cb said:
I have to say that coming from OnePlus 6 into Sony Xperia 5 II I totally agree that the camera in standard mode the OnePlus performs better.. but the manual mode in the Sony Xperia if you know about photography it definitely out performs the OnePlus 6.. I'll recommend reducing the brightness in the standard mode and you will see a better quality pic in the Sony Xperia.
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I didn't even noticed that I could reduce the brightness in standard mode, now I feel really dumb. Still, I would replace any day standard camera app with Marco's GCam...
KiraV said:
Same day, same time, around 10 minutes difference I think? What's the difference you're seeing? The Xperia makes everything much more pink-ish, if that's what you're referring to. Imho from how the light was irl the gcam got the most accurate colours, my room does have a kinda "washed out" light when it's cloudy and the lights are off.
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Apologies, I just took these background pictures as different, but its the same picture presuming different time.
My mistake.
As an avid photographer with a nice collection of bodies and lenses, I will say that I'm pleased with the pictures from the 5 II. I picked one up a few weeks ago to replace my P30 Pro. I definitely get better pictures from the Pro app than the Standard camera app. But, since I have a Sony ILC, I like the familiar interface, and you can learn to get good pictures from it quickly.
KiraV said:
Sony Xperia 5 II:
* standard camera, no tinkering
* pro camera, auto mode
* pro camera, P mode with HDR, no other tinkering
Oneplus 6:
* standard camera
* Marco's GCam 6.1 MJL v3.7 Miniflex, day mode, AWB off, no other tinkering
(Sorry for the un-professionality of the shots and the general mess.)
I'm finding the Xperia 5II camera and pro camera... underwhelming to say the least. I'm sure that pro camera, used by people who are used to more complex non-smartphone cameras can give great photos, but to less camera-savvy people like me the results are... terrible. Coming from a great gcam port that basically performed perfectly right out of the box (big kudos to Marco's amazing work), I find it pretty disappointing to see this.
I can only hope that a good gcam port comes out fast.
(The Xperia otherwise is a pretty darn good phone imho, aside from some minor annoying things that hopefully will be improved/fixed in next updates.)
(x-posted from my thread on r/SonyXperia)
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I'm coming from an OP6 and couldn't agree with you more. The 5ii auto focus on objects less than 6ft away is unbelievably bad. The detail in the 5ii pics are underwhelming compared to the OP6 GCAM.
I've decided to take my OP6 with me when I know I'm going to be taking pics.
Though it's off topic I totally regret getting the 5ii and could happily go back to my OP6. Gonna sell 5ii and get the next OnePlus when it comes out.
cdkg said:
I'm coming from an OP6 and couldn't agree with you more. The 5ii auto focus on objects less than 6ft away is unbelievably bad. The detail in the 5ii pics are underwhelming compared to the OP6 GCAM.
I've decided to take my OP6 with me when I know I'm going to be taking pics.
Though it's off topic I totally regret getting the 5ii and could happily go back to my OP6. Gonna sell 5ii and get the next OnePlus when it comes out.
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Well, you are not pro camera user. If you had any Sony DSLR you would know. Everything is in manual mode, not auto mode. The same situation is on Sony phones. I have XPERIA 1 II and after many updates photos from Camera app auto mode is much better, but still not good as iPhone 12 Pro Max auto mode. When I use Program Auto or Manual Exposure in Photo Pro and adjust setting result is different. Photos are much better taken with XPERIA 1 II. So, why did you buy XPERIA 5 II if you are not pro camera user? Sony philosophy is if you want to take full advantage from sensor and camera, use Photo Pro app : Auto mode for social networks, Program Auto if you are begginer, Shutter Priority for fast moving objects and Manual Exposure if you are camera pro user. Memory Recall is just for most used settings values and modes.
I've actually been pleased with low light photo quality of the standard camera app. Very close to my P30 Pro.
Unfortunately I completely agree that OP somehow delivers better photos than overhyped, much more expensive Xperia 5 II. I've got my Xperia 5 II just few days ago (didn't see the warning "For Pro Photographers only" on the box or anywhere else). Compared to my "old" Pixel 4, I'm disappointed so far. I clearly see that Pixel makes better pictures with zero efforts in all situations regardless of shakeness of my hands and photo skills. Certainly Xperia has focusing issues in some situations. I struggled to focus on objects with Xperia whereas I didn't with Pixel 4 at the same time. Xperia photos look soft / less sharp, blurry in not ideal conditions, hit or miss experience damn to often, horrible selfie camera etc. Going to spend some time with this phone (one month or so), give Xperia a chance to shine and then decide what to do. Thankfully I didn't sell my Pixel 4 yet...
It's all subjective, but to me the Xperia wins here. To my eyes the exposure is better, the white balance is better, the colors are more natural and overall it has a more realistic rendition (not overly sharpened). And the subtle bokeh its larger sensor gets is just icing on the cake.
Sony goes for naturalistic processing which I appreciate. People used to Samsung's bold processing might be let down initially.
u bought a phone has camera,not a camera which calls
A. With the plethora of resources I don't know why anyone would buy a Sony Xperia and be surprised at what they get. I wasn't. I looked at a lot of YouTube videos about Sony Xperias.
B. "U bought a phone has camera, not a camera which calls." I think I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure you're qualified to say what anyone bought except yourself. I was late to phones because I'm quite deaf and don't do phone calls but I'm also old and got tired of toting cameras and lens. I had a Pixel that took great photos and then a Huawei P30 that also took great photos but I was missing taking photos. I'm sure the phone was having fun but I wasn't. Their "pro" mode sucked. For example, in pro mode, their little white icons disappeared when I was taking photos on the white sand of the beach at Huatulco or the white stone pavement in Oaxaca. Now, I enjoy taking photos again with my Xperia.
C. If you want AI to take photos for you, don't get a Sony Xperia. If you actually enjoy photography, you might enjoy having a Sony Xperia. This is a Sony Xperia forum so I don't mind posting my opinion but I am in no way denigrating those who enjoy iPhones or Pixels or Pocos. Choices are great.
patrickt said:
A. With the plethora of resources I don't know why anyone would buy a Sony Xperia and be surprised at what they get. I wasn't. I looked at a lot of YouTube videos about Sony Xperias.
B. "U bought a phone has camera, not a camera which calls." I think I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure you're qualified to say what anyone bought except yourself. I was late to phones because I'm quite deaf and don't do phone calls but I'm also old and got tired of toting cameras and lens. I had a Pixel that took great photos and then a Huawei P30 that also took great photos but I was missing taking photos. I'm sure the phone was having fun but I wasn't. Their "pro" mode sucked. For example, in pro mode, their little white icons disappeared when I was taking photos on the white sand of the beach at Huatulco or the white stone pavement in Oaxaca. Now, I enjoy taking photos again with my Xperia.
C. If you want AI to take photos for you, don't get a Sony Xperia. If you actually enjoy photography, you might enjoy having a Sony Xperia. This is a Sony Xperia forum so I don't mind posting my opinion but I am in no way denigrating those who enjoy iPhones or Pixels or Pocos. Choices are great.
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i was surperised that someone really reply like i offend anyone.However, i am more pro sony than oneplus(even i had oneplus 1). Now i am holding Xperia5ii which i am satisfied the most in any android phone(sizewise Iphone12&13mini is better).
i personally buy this phone for its size which onehand controls fine.But more than that I prefer unlock the bootloader and put aosp roms instead of offical that drains the battery fast and laggy some how. So i may not buy this phone for the photos but can anyone buy this phone for other reasons?i dont think i am qualified to say the reason what anyone buys neither you are. But i think forum is a free place for any ideas and any opinions i assume. Good day with ur xperia although we love xperia for different reasons.