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This is a question about the 1 megapixel MDA II camera...
Is the quality (or, rather, the lack of it) due to the hardware or to the software? If it's a software thing, has anyone done better camera software somewhere?
it's not 1Mpixel
i never seen a cmos based camera which took really good pictures
think it's hardware limited
Not 1 megapixel? That's new to me.
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
Sony
Sony post processing isn't as good as it could be, look at this Xperia Z sample.
If you have a high end Sony phone from the last two years I wouldn't hesitate to say that your photos and video will drastically improve with this new API if implemented well in a good app.
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The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
unidentifier said:
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
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We were hoping that the API and RAW format was going to arrive in KK as it was rumoured back then. Having access to the RAW data will help, but a noisy sensor is a noisy sensor.
There are some photo comparisons out there of the Nexus 5 running both Kitkat and Lollipop. The improvement in quality is very very noticeable, and I will eat a hat if we don't see some improvement on the Z Ultra too.
I believe it was Forbes that tested the Nexus 5 camera.
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Sm0L said:
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
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It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
ShadowVlican said:
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
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There's already a third party camera app for Lollipop that does this. It shoots RAW. The app itself is crappy (according to most users), but it's more of a proof of concept at this point.
H. E. Pennypacker said:
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
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I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Sm0L said:
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
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But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
madphone said:
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
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Sony's post-processing is the worst.
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor R Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
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Yeah, we'll just have to wait i guess No reason to fight over something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer yet.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
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Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
Edit: All that to say, maybe there is hope in the software department.
Johnmcl7 said:
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
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Triflot said:
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
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Solid research John and Triflot. Thank you.
Personally, I will be happy if the camera works at all with unlocked bl.
You want me to put the hammer down?
Deleted
leonbarroso said:
Do as I did - buy a semipro camera on blackfriday
Serious photography with smartphone is bull****
And I am a former Lumia 1020 owner
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Why does it have to be 'serious' photography? I have many dedicated cameras from 1in sensor size up to professional full frame setups but none of those cameras are small enough to keep in my trouser pockets all the time, I tried recently going for one of the smallest dedicated cameras I could find but even that was irritating to carry in my trouser pockets alongside the phone. My phone on the other hand is always in my pocket and always to hand so it's ready to go any time when I want to take a photo unexpectedly plus its online connection means the photo is immediately ready to upload the photo if I want to as well. Some of my dedicated cameras have wifi for transferring photos but it's still a fiddle in comparison.
I don't need an amazing camera but I'm just disappointed how poor the Z ultra camera is, I find I use it like an older camera phone where it was only really handy for capturing serial numbers or information I need to quickly jot down whereas I used the Galaxy Note as a camera a fair bit and while the quality can't match the dedicated cameras it could produce reasonable pictures. I'm seriously considering going for a Note 4 and taking the hit on the screen size to get the better camera, it will be a few months before prices are reasonable so that's time to see if Sony announce anything (which I seriously doubt) or anyone else offers anything interesting with a larger screen.
With regards to the Z Ultra sensor, I'm surprised it is BSI as I thought I'd read initially when considering the phone that Sony had taken an older sensor and rebadged it as Exmor RS which made sense. There's not many sources for the camera module but the few I can find agree with Wikipedia as do sources for the Huawei and the Xperia L, is there any way to verify this in software on a Z Ultra? With regards to photo quality on the Xperia L and the Huawei G6, I am surprised by the positive comments even allowing for them being budget phones and the G6 having a faster lens (F2 rather than F2.4 on the Sony's). Then again some of the reviews of the Z Ultra aren't that hard on the camera either so it's difficult to tell objectively, DXOmark haven't tested it (admittedly I'm not convinced by their testing anyway) nor have I seen any particularly objective testing.
John
Hi all ,
I bought OPX 4 days ago. I checked camera is worst than ever I used in phones even yuphoria an lowest budget phone has 8mp camera but its 10 times better than OPX 13 mp camera.
Is it a os issue or hardware issue?
Does all u guys having such issue plz guide me.
Try camera FV-5 app. I use it with my OPO and it takes great pictures.
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
A new camera app isn't going to change the results because the problem is partially hardware-related and partially firmware related:
engadget.com said:
The OnePlus X's camera may have the same megapixel count as its more expensive brethren, but the similarities end there. Yes, it's got a 13-megapixel sensor, but it's a smaller sensor than the OnePlus 2's, and so lets in less light. It's also placed behind an f/2.2 lens, which is a third-stop slower than the lens on the 2. The result of these concessions is a much poorer experience.
In good lighting conditions, the X can capture a decent amount of detail, but it's difficult to predict whether you'll get a good photo. There's just no consistency here; in a typical five-minute shooting period, I saw underexposed and overexposed photos, vibrant colors, subdued colors and totally inaccurate colors. The X is quick to focus, though, and shutter lag is minimal.
In low light, things get worse. I took the phone along to an industry event featuring live music, and happily snapped away. During the show the images seemed fine, but I came home to find they were universally bad. There's an over-aggressive anti-noise algorithm that sucks all the detail out of photos, and the daylight exposure and color issues carry over as well.
I'm not sure that all of the OnePlus X's problems are due to the sensor; it's more likely the software. That's not to say that OnePlus can fix everything -- this will never be a great camera -- but white balance and exposure settings seem like something OnePlus could improve through updates. And it really needs updates.
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Source
Software updates won't change the fact that it's a small-ish sensor behind mediocre glass. A so-so camera is all this phone has.
CafeKampuchia said:
Software updates won't change the fact that it's a small-ish sensor behind mediocre glass. A so-so camera is all this phone has.
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Agree - updates won't radically change the quality, but they can improve it.
Also, if camera is that important to people, you'll have to spend at least double than what you are spending for the X.
charliebigpot said:
Agree - updates won't radically change the quality, but they can improve it.
Also, if camera is that important to people, you'll have to spend at least double than what you are spending for the X.
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I don't agree. Xiaomi mi4c got great camera and is just a little more expensive.
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yes the whole Xiaomi series including the Mi4, Mi4i and Mi4c have better camera then Opx..
But then if you are buying a oneplus you are surely not doing it for the camera.
I also have a mi4 that has a way better camera. But the MIUI launcher sucks. Also the custom rom scene for MIUI is active but childish.
Tyga187 said:
I don't agree. Xiaomi mi4c got great camera and is just a little more expensive.
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
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Sure, but it doesn't have an sd card slot.. Let's face it, there is no phone that is perfect for that price, there will always be something that people will not like.
Can camera performance be improved with software tweaks or is it just that Redmi Note 3 uses uses bad hardware/sensor?
I suspect that the problem is related to the sensor/hardware
In poor light conditions the camera is bull****, but in good light is pretty good, idk why because the sensor is f/2.0
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, it's a hardware thingy. Numbers aren't meant anymore. You can see, the camera is 16MP with f/2.0, but it's quality says otherwise.
I compared photos taken with RN3 with Mi4i's, having f/2.0 sensor as well. The photos taken with Mi4i were crisp & clear and with RN3, were noisy & grainy. I guess, Xiaomi didn't use a good sensor to cut down the price.
I wonder if it is upscaling some phones are really like 8 MP but use software interpoling to upscale, so I guess you could try taking a picture at 8 or 13 MP and see if there is any difference - just an idea, I will test when I get some time.
otyg said:
I wonder if it is upscaling some phones are really like 8 MP but use software interpoling to upscale, so I guess you could try taking a picture at 8 or 13 MP and see if there is any difference - just an idea, I will test when I get some time.
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I don't think this is happening. It's not a matter of lack of resolution, it's more to do with sensor quality. Xiaomi wouldn't lie about their cameras.
Guys the pixel size from the kenzo is one of the smallest on the market. In good light the pictures are pretty good. But in more dark areas the pictures are really bad, thats because of the pixel size. Its hardware limited and there aren't many software improvements. So live with it or buy another phone
Can use hardware camera from other device and patch kernel and drivers?
nexuspur said:
Guys the pixel size from the kenzo is one of the smallest on the market. In good light the pictures are pretty good. But in more dark areas the pictures are really bad, thats because of the pixel size. Its hardware limited and there aren't many software improvements. So live with it or buy another phone
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I have no complaints, the pictures look similar to my Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 , perhaps because of the samsung brand cmos ..ok actually I'm not sure what sensor is in the samsung tablet,
I did notice my samsung tablet has way better closeup zoom capabilities though, where the kenzo will start to blur at same range - not a huge deal unless you need to take pictures of flowers or bugs ...etc, perhaps it has a macro mode I missed, haven't had too much time to mess around with the camera - I'll get to it eventually
(Camera)Damn that's saddening.But maybe the little software improvements can give some changes you know...
Everyone should post a sample picture from their device using the stock camera app(don't forget to turn off geo-tagging), to see if the output is similar across multiple rn3p maybe some have better/worse sensors?
I'm comparing it to my old HTC 10 and the quality is night and day. It's blurry/fuzzy, the colors are washed out. It reminds me of the quality of my old cheap webcam from 10 years ago.
Because you didn't turn off all the skin toning and skin lighting junk that's on by default. I was able to shoot selfies with more detail than any model would ever want to see on themselves so I know it isn't the camera's fault.
CHH2 said:
Because you didn't turn off all the skin toning and skin lighting junk that's on by default. I was able to shoot selfies with more detail than any model would ever want to see on themselves so I know it isn't the camera's fault.
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No, everything is disabled. It's terrible quality.
Mudig said:
It's terrible quality.
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My testing and photos say otherwise. Like I said, way more detail in the selfies I've taken than most people who sit for me would ever want to see in a photo. It's not the camera.
Hey, coming from a Nexus 6 ... this is a major improvement.
Okay let's settle this, 5 mp camera is not the best out there, especially compared to iPhone 8's new front facing camera or even Samsung's I guess, although I can only tell based on what I see on internet, as I don't own them. Makes me wonder why it's so hard to create a perfect phone? I mean you did almost everything perfectly right, put a damn 8 mp camera with ois or whatever and hit a home run, why did they choose this front facing camera is beyond my understanding
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Because the reality is that in order to actually see a doubling of resolution, you actually have to quadruple the megapixel count. So to see twice the detail of a 5mp sensor, you would have to use a 20mp sensor. 20mp at selfie cam size would be insane. The cameras that are using 16mp selfie cameras (such as the HTC U11) are actually using the main shooter from the V30. But to squeeze that extra sensor in with OIS would require more room and produce more heat which would cause issues with amp glow on your other sensors. Digital imaging can be a real P.I.T.A. even with dedicated cameras. Cellphone cameras are a miracle that they even produce anything worthwhile. And that's usually due to being conservative in your approach to what hardware you use.
CHH2 said:
Because the reality is that in order to actually see a doubling of resolution, you actually have to quadruple the megapixel count. So to see twice the detail of a 5mp sensor, you would have to use a 20mp sensor. 20mp at selfie cam size would be insane. The cameras that are using 16mp selfie cameras (such as the HTC U11) are actually using the main shooter from the V30. But to squeeze that extra sensor in with OIS would require more room and produce more heat which would cause issues with amp glow on your other sensors. Digital imaging can be a real P.I.T.A. even with dedicated cameras. Cellphone cameras are a miracle that they even produce anything worthwhile. And that's usually due to being conservative in your approach to what hardware you use.
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Thanks! I already learned something interesting today Is that the reason why the Nokia 8 and the HTC U11 have larger bezels as well in order to have enough room to tackle these technical challenges?
emmanuelw said:
Thanks! I already learned something interesting today Is that the reason why the Nokia 8 and the HTC U11 have larger bezels as well in order to have enough room to tackle these technical challenges?
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Yes, bezels really only exist to hide hardware that they haven't figured out how to downsize or place elsewhere. To get tiny bezels, you have to use tiny camera, earpiece, and proximity sensor hardware or just get rid of them. OIS units make things much bigger as you have to put a ring of motors around the object you're stabilizing. Earpieces/speakers take up a lot of space. I'm guessing Google used the headphone jack space to add more battery and the second speaker, with the second speaker adding more bezel. Proximity sensor is probably the smallest thing in the bezels. Display drivers used to be a big contributor (Moto 360 flat tire was a display driver if I remember right) but with the modern OLED panels they just, er, tuck 'em.
Not passing judgement on the quality of the selfie cam, but I notice that as with the main camera, it too has a "wide angle" setting.
But with only the single camera, necessarily this means that the non-wide setting is digitally zoomed, plus I'd bet there's heavy software correction going on to get rid of all of the wide angle distortion. Perhaps that's asking too much from a 5 MP sensor?
However, I rarely take selfies, and when I do, I'm often trying to squeeze in the other people that are with me, or some scene in the background, so maybe I'll find the native wider angle appealing? Hard to tell in-store with all the florescent lighting.
Mudig said:
No, everything is disabled. It's terrible quality.
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Agreed, turned all that off too and it still looks like crap.
Maybe find something better looking to shoot? The camera does really well.
CHH2 said:
Maybe find something better looking to shoot? The camera does really well.
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Lol wow dude is talking about a selfie this guy says find something better to shoot lmao.
I've never taken an awful photo with the front facing V30 camera. I really don't understand how anyone thinks it's awful.
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From my experience, it only does poorly in low light, that is, compared to 2017 flagships. I don't think it's nearly as bad a many claim it is.
If you look at a lot of of comparisons with the between the likes of the note 8, iphone x and pixel 2, it holds up really well. The biggest difference is really between the pixel 2 and pretty much every other flagship front facer, it has by far the best front facing cam on the market by a good margin imo. The v30 front cam can look really good, is just dosen't produce quite as much detail as the others, and maybe lacks in dynamic range a bit.
If you turn on flash in low light, you see better results. It’s not real flash obviously but I’ve been impressed when it gets it right.
maybe youre ugly lol jk