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I would like to start learning how to put roms together. I would like to start with developing a 2.2 rom compiled from galaxy s I900 source. Is there anyone here that can point me in the direction of a good tutorial on how to start? I have been using other peoples work for like a year and a half and would really like to create rather than use. I am a total noob when it comes to developing so any help would be great. thx
Go here;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=613
Read a lot before you ask.
Good luck!
You can't develop a rom using only kernel source.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Its not kernel only. I am not a total moron. It is the 2.2os downloaded from samsung for the galaxy s i9000
yutzyscott said:
Its not kernel only. I am not a total moron. It is the 2.2os downloaded from samsung for the galaxy s i9000
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All I have to say is good luck with that.
fallingup said:
All I have to say is good luck with that.
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In all seriousness do you stay apprised in any way shape or form of android related news our just enjoy smearing the forums with your illinformed ramblings and negativity? Speak of what you know and don't be so eager to dismiss anyone with the fortitude to increase their own knowledge base on an operating system such as this when its these people who we all depend on to better our experience with said operating system. As it is these people for whom google turns to when it comes to ideas on how to better their future stock releases. Thank you for the vote of confidence.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
You do realize fallingup has written more android code than your phone can hold?
The reason they seem testy is they(actual developers) have been spending all their free time trying to get Samsungs crappy code to compile, and every couple of hours some one asks for an easy how to guide for porting Froyo.
Spend some time reading the forums. Find out what is already being done, then learn the basics of rom development. THEN, ask intelligent questions on how help develop Froyo for our phones.
Asking for an easy way to cook roms is the equivalent of the kid in the back seat asking "are we there yet" every 30 seconds. If you really want to learn how to cook roms, try a couple easy ones with the kitchen I linked to, then learn how to work on roms without the kitchen. Then work on Froyo. There is no easy way.
I didn't ask for an easy how to thinking that I could have it done by tomorrow or even that I could figure it out at all. I simply asked for a starting point and stated in the OP that I am a know nothing when it comes to developing. As far as my last post I meant no disrespect to fallingup in fact it was my mistake to quote his post. I actually intended on quoting jt1134 so, to fallingup, I have used your stuff many times and have nothing but respect for what you do. I apologize for the misquote. I in no way think myself to be super genius to the 10th power nor do I believe that I can actually do anything worth while with this code. I'm just bored and want to learn. I'm also an Android addict.
P.S. Thank you for the link. Also you'll notice in my last post now that you know of my misquote, that I am actually 100% behind people like fallingup. I would never knowingly give a verbal bashing like that to him.(god I feel like **** now)
You meant to quote ME? Wow.
In all seriousness, and no disrespect intended, I'll explain a few things.
The code Samsung provides is NOT the full OS. Not even close. It's the kernel, plus a few android packages. In most cases, the android packages are EXACT copies of the code that has been available from Google for months, and in other cases has one line changes referencing a Makefile that doesn't exist. This is no way gets us any closer to a 2.2 rom other than the kernel. What we REALLY need is a working 2.2 ota build or leaked package to move forward any faster. That is MUCH more important than the garbage that Samsung has been releasing to us.
If you are a noob to development, then GOOD LUCK. If you are an advanced developer with intimate knowledge of android, then GOOD LUCK. There are quite a few of us working on aosp ports to the SGS phone series, and so far it has not been completed for a SINGLE device.
There are no guides that will explain exactly what is needed to accomplish this goal. There is no one who is going to hold anyone else's hands through it. Hacking is a meritocracy, meaning you'll get help with advanced topics when you show you have done your research, put effort into resolving the issue on your own, and ask intelligent and informed questions that give exact details of the situation.
If you would like to continue to show a poor attitude, then go for it on your own. Wait for us to release a working rom. If you would like to actually learn and invest some time in moving forward, the GO FOR IT, you are VERY WELCOME to do so. Read the porting guides written by google, try some stuff out, and come over to IRC and get your hack on.
I'm tired. I'm generally a nice guy, sorry!
jt1134 said:
You meant to quote ME? Wow.
In all seriousness, and no disrespect intended, I'll explain a few things.
The code Samsung provides is NOT the full OS. Not even close. It's the kernel, plus a few android packages. In most cases, the android packages are EXACT copies of the code that has been available from Google for months, and in other cases has one line changes referencing a Makefile that doesn't exist. This is no way gets us any closer to a 2.2 rom other than the kernel. What we REALLY need is a working 2.2 ota build or leaked package to move forward any faster. That is MUCH more important than the garbage that Samsung has been releasing to us.
If you are a noob to development, then GOOD LUCK. If you are an advanced developer with intimate knowledge of android, then GOOD LUCK. There are quite a few of us working on aosp ports to the SGS phone series, and so far it has not been completed for a SINGLE device.
There are no guides that will explain exactly what is needed to accomplish this goal. There is no one who is going to hold anyone else's hands through it. Hacking is a meritocracy, meaning you'll get help with advanced topics when you show you have done your research, put effort into resolving the issue on your own, and ask intelligent and informed questions that give exact details of the situation.
If you would like to continue to show a poor attitude, then go for it on your own. Wait for us to release a working rom. If you would like to actually learn and invest some time in moving forward, the GO FOR IT, you are VERY WELCOME to do so. Read the porting guides written by google, try some stuff out, and come over to IRC and get your hack on.
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Now I have the right person quoted. Did you even read my post??? Let me repeat a key part so that you can understand and maybe you can stop battering the new guy.
"I didn't ask for an easy how to thinking that I could have it done by tomorrow or even that I could figure it out at all. I simply asked for a starting point and stated in the OP that I am a know nothing when it comes to developing."
I have admitted to my know nothingness. I simply want to learn. You could respond with something such as Galaxy S 2.2 is not a good place to start the learning process. Or you could have left it alone entirely and just thought that the link posted by "sgtmack" was sufficient enough. After all it did answer the exact question I asked. You might know a lot more about code and code writing than me but you have to admit, "your kind of an arrogant ass!" Now I would like to end this banter by allowing you to respond in whatever way you deem necessary. I myself will give this no further thought as I would like to move on now. That and I believe I have made myself look bad enough now.
As for fallingup and sgtmack, thanks for the hard work and helpful advice.
yutzyscott, do you not realize that jt and dirrk are the ones that got us the voodoo kernel? do you know they are the ones that got the kernel booting in the first place using samsung's ****ty source code? without jt, there would be nothing to build a rom around. wtf do you mean ill-informed when jt probably knows more than most people about developing for this phone? pay some ****ing respect for people that deserve it.
Yeah I do but, when this whole thing started I did not read who the post was by but, rather I just read the post. While I appreciate his work and am actually using it, my pride was hurt and its hard to interpret someones tone on a forum. I was under the impression in the beginning of all this that it would be known that I downloaded the 2.2 ota pushed to the original galaxy s and not the source they have been working with and making leaps and bounds with despite the road blocks. I was interested in learning how to port it (the ota I mean) rather than just sitting on my hands waiting to use anothers work. Chances are that I would never even come close to understanding what I was looking at but, I had to try. Now I'm sorry I asked. I quit...I was wrong, sorry! Leaving it to the experts. I'll go back to helping people with simple basic problems on droidforums.net and continue being an expert on using the real experts work.
This doesn't need to be turned into a flame thread. So here's my advice: join us on irc.freenode.net #samsung-fascinate and ask questions there. learn how to build a kernel, and maybe try to find out how exactly to port roms from other devices. Its a tough business, especially when we don't even get working kernel source from the manufacturer.
There are a ton of people that are working on the galaxy s phones, trying to get AOSP and the like on them. These phones are quite different than any other android phones, just with the way that the hardware / partitions are, so there is a lot to work through and document. Once one of the SGS phones is running aosp, im sure the others wont be too far behind. I wouldn't bother porting another crappy samsung rom, cause it will still have a lot of the crap that we are trying to get rid of by running aosp.
Thanks. And to jt, im sorry for being an argumentative ****. Thanks for all your hard work and despite the fact that there are many having issues with voodoo I am one of the many who it is working beautifully for.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
yutzyscott said:
Thanks. And to jt, im sorry for being an argumentative ****. Thanks for all your hard work and despite the fact that there are many having issues with voodoo I am one of the many who it is working beautifully for.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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Hey no hard feelings man. This was the first thing I saw after waking up today so I got rubbed the wrong way. Apologies. Feel free to catch me on IRC and I'm always happy to answer any questions relating to compiling stuff for our phones
jt1134 said:
Hey no hard feelings man. This was the first thing I saw after waking up today so I got rubbed the wrong way. Apologies. Feel free to catch me on IRC and I'm always happy to answer any questions relating to compiling stuff for our phones
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Me too. I was drunk last night and after three hours of sleep I started responding on this thread.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
yutzyscott said:
Me too. I was drunk last night and after three hours of sleep I started responding on this thread.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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Thats always a good excuse
this was an entertaining thread lol.. misunderstandings is one of the biggest downfalls of online conversation.
Not meant to be offensive. Just funny. http://www.geekologie.com/2010/10/a_day_in_the_life_of_internet.php
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Hey everyone,
We've made a small change to this forum by giving it a different name. This is now the *default* Android development forum for Galaxy S II. Any works that are completely original will be filed in the Original Android Development forum. Everything else will go here.
We have a more long-term solution to the ROM situation in the works. It'll be a database-driven ROM upload tool that will make it super easy for users to find and rate the ROMs that you upload. You'll be hearing more about this in the coming months.
For now, please continue to provide feedback. Thank you for your help in making XDA a more organized place.
Thanks!
P.S. If you think your ROM should be placed in the Original Android Development forum, send me a PM.
Edit from noppy22: this thread is no longer relevant so I unstuck it...
Sveitus,
I am dissapointed that the original explainatory thread was closed without reason after it was collecting opposing comments. Not cool.
I believe what you've posted (not done, I am confident that this was done with some consultation, somewhere) should be discussed in a wider context.
To that end, I've opened a thread in the XDA general forum with an admittedly emotive title "First and Second Class ROMS, 1st, 2nd class users". Please track this thread, assuming it's not lost amidst the noise.
I would have posted my concerns in the original notification thread except...
What gives?
Just imagine someone from sensation comes here and sees two development threads...
Sensation owners must be jealous by now..
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react.
Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
The current situation is not something new to all of us.
There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.
xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.
I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...
You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...
This is not right for the community.
I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
giokou said:
The current situation is not something new to all of us.
There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.
xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.
I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...
You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...
This is not right for the community.
I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
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I 100% support this view...
If this is the case, then no custom roms should be in "original" section, as they are all derived from the stock manufacturer's roms.
khein said:
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react.
Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
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All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.
And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.
You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.
It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?
And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?
We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
jlevy73 said:
All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.
And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
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Click to collapse
The other thread was closed because it was a discussion on the Derived ROMs Forum format, which as you state wasn't what we hoped it would be. So, changed the forum format. The old discussion was closed and a new one started to discuss this iteration. The thread was also started and stuck by svetius.
zikarus said:
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.
You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.
It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?
And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?
We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
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The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
Clearer..
<sarcasm>
This titling does make it clearer..
Example:
Original Development: CM7
It's built from the ground up with a myriad of coded additions to be a truly 'Original' product.
Development: Everything else
All other ROMS are stock deodexed upgrades.
</sarcasm>
Don't like this idea...
DaveShaw said:
The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
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Closed or deleted - did not see it but no big difference anyway.
And there is nothing obvious neither about the closing nor the separation.
If you like to install a new tool do so. Build it, introduce it. Till then leave things as they were, stop separation and maybe excuse for the mess you produced by an unbiased decision... My 5 ct
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I really don't understand what an "original ROM" is. Google wrote the only original Android ROM imho.
here's a thought.
Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.
There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.
It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
Simple Result:
As far as I see; Some devs are out of business and as far as I feel, more to be...
mynameisjon said:
here's a thought.
Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.
There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.
It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
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Uhm actually the fact that thread was buried a few pages until yesterday meant svetius may have missed it. Moved it across.
That's grand, we don't have derivated roms anymore, we have originals and others (stolen, fakes, not so cool). I like the way mods are listening...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I must admit, the way the mods have chosen to separate the two development sections doesn't sit well with me at all. The criteria for which section a ROM goes in to is very subjective and open to various interpretations, all of which are prone to the moderator's possible bias.
Strictly speaking, only one or two ROMs are 'original development' and belong in that section. All the others are derivatives in some way or another.
A better way to clean up the dev forum would be to have a couple of sub-sections; perhaps one for all ROMs (regardless of source), one for kernels and related modifications and another for android-specific modifications. Then, be strict about enforcing the sub-section criteria. Also, ask ROM chefs to state in their OP whether the ROM is based on another ROM and to credit the original developer/chef.
Everything else goes in Themes & Apps.
Also, having a mandatory format for thread titles (a la the HD2 forum) is an excellent way to keep things tidy and ensure that people know when a new release has been posted and what the releases are based upon. It worked over in HD2 rather well I thought. After coming from an HD2 to the S2, I thought that the S2 forums were a little untidy to say the least.
Ok, serious mode off, back to my usual sarcastic self.
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
TheBishopOfSoho said:
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
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No harm in disagreeing! If enough people disagree, the mods may relent on this decision.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1288714
there are some big names here that never released a Rom for the Amaze
what happened ???
I am wondering the same thing. They are really good devs.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA
Let's PM them and ask..?
hasoon2000 said:
Let's PM them and ask..?
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good idea
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
Say what u want about Xboarder, but he hit the nail on the head when he left. It's bull**** here. Moderators backed off/out, devs don't want to do anything here. I said it before ics and s=off.. the community is slowing development, and is the reason for the lack of devs.
I don't want to really post here any more. A few of the original Amaze members stuck around, but even they are fed up. My inbox gets 5-10 PMs per day. Usually from a noob I never heard of asking me to hold his hand.
I hate to say it like this, but WAAAAY too many spoiled little kids own this phone... Hence the childish community.
Good luck getting insertcoin, or ANY working CM9/AOSP ROMs. This community is full of Kangers and themers who can copy/paste/edit files and because they spend a lot of time doing it, they think they're devs.
I mean really, most devs here are not devs, they are senior members. Not even recognized as Recognized Contributors, just senior members. Lol.
Sent from my HTC Ruby running Sense 3.6
glacierguy said:
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
Say what u want about Xboarder, but he hit the nail on the head when he left. It's bull**** here. Moderators backed off/out, devs don't want to do anything here. I said it before ics and s=off.. the community is slowing development, and is the reason for the lack of devs.
I don't want to really post here any more. A few of the original Amaze members stuck around, but even they are fed up. My inbox gets 5-10 PMs per day. Usually from a noob I never heard of asking me to hold his hand.
I hate to say it like this, but WAAAAY too many spoiled little kids own this phone... Hence the childish community.
Good luck getting insertcoin, or ANY working CM9/AOSP ROMs. This community is full of Kangers and themers who can copy/paste/edit files and because they spend a lot of time doing it, they think they're devs.
I mean really, most devs here are not devs, they are senior members. Not even recognized as Recognized Contributors, just senior members. Lol.
Sent from my HTC Ruby running Sense 3.6
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while i agree with you on this. i think with any phone now there will be people *****ing if you dont have fast development. its just how XDA/the internet is getting lol. i remember back in the mytouch/g1 days when people were cool and got along
glacierguy said:
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
Say what u want about Xboarder, but he hit the nail on the head when he left. It's bull**** here. Moderators backed off/out, devs don't want to do anything here. I said it before ics and s=off.. the community is slowing development, and is the reason for the lack of devs.
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Lol ...and you think its just the forums here.... its the whole freaking society heading to exactly what you said.
Spoiled fuking punks.
Technology moving forward, society moving sideways, maybe a little backwards.... gl dude, I feel ya with what you are saying, you leaving is a loss, considering you actually contributed here, and didn't just post comments.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
Damn, im patient and busted my ass off at a craphole of a job to get this phone, but hey. Im happy with what i got and can wait for features that others are dying for. If we want things, then maybe we should learn ourselves. guess i got the wrong phone huh. Well guys, Were not all spoiled.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
glacierguy said:
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
Say what u want about Xboarder, but he hit the nail on the head when he left. It's bull**** here. Moderators backed off/out, devs don't want to do anything here. I said it before ics and s=off.. the community is slowing development, and is the reason for the lack of devs.
I don't want to really post here any more. A few of the original Amaze members stuck around, but even they are fed up. My inbox gets 5-10 PMs per day. Usually from a noob I never heard of asking me to hold his hand.
I hate to say it like this, but WAAAAY too many spoiled little kids own this phone... Hence the childish community.
Good luck getting insertcoin, or ANY working CM9/AOSP ROMs. This community is full of Kangers and themers who can copy/paste/edit files and because they spend a lot of time doing it, they think they're devs.
I mean really, most devs here are not devs, they are senior members. Not even recognized as Recognized Contributors, just senior members. Lol.
Sent from my HTC Ruby running Sense 3.6
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Click to collapse
Agree with this whole heartedly.
I have spent the last year or so on this forum, researching my old phone G2 and my current phone Amaze. Just 1 month ago i finally built the courage to root & S-OFF my G2, loaded up recovery and a rom. I went detail by detail on this forum, every question i thought of i hit the search bar and walla, someone else had the same issue and it was resolved instantly. So 2 weeks ago i decided to root my Amaze and S-Off using the juopunutbear tool. I read for 2 straight days and in my modding infancy i made some mistakes, But as i returned to reading, i was able to make whatever wrong i had right. No needs to making new threads or pm'ing anyone. It's a shame people are to lazy to do the simple things that are required on this forum.
Just wanna say a huge thanks to all the helpfull users on these boards, be it devs or just random testers or noobs willing to make mistakes like myself in order to enjoy their phone to the fullest extent.
glacierguy said:
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
Say what u want about Xboarder, but he hit the nail on the head when he left. It's bull**** here. Moderators backed off/out, devs don't want to do anything here. I said it before ics and s=off.. the community is slowing development, and is the reason for the lack of devs.
I don't want to really post here any more. A few of the original Amaze members stuck around, but even they are fed up. My inbox gets 5-10 PMs per day. Usually from a noob I never heard of asking me to hold his hand.
I hate to say it like this, but WAAAAY too many spoiled little kids own this phone... Hence the childish community.
Good luck getting insertcoin, or ANY working CM9/AOSP ROMs. This community is full of Kangers and themers who can copy/paste/edit files and because they spend a lot of time doing it, they think they're devs.
I mean really, most devs here are not devs, they are senior members. Not even recognized as Recognized Contributors, just senior members. Lol.
Sent from my HTC Ruby running Sense 3.6
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Click to collapse
so you call all of us fake devs? just because alot of us dont know how to build from source very well doesnt mean were not real devs! its called theming, a different kind of dev. and along with theming, you make mods to roms.
you sir got your definition of a kang wrong. and people that ask eta's are just eager for the devs awesomeness to show. (it should make the devs happy that there work is at least wanted... if you dont like eta's, ignore the user)
as for pm's, just ignore it or answer it. the choice is yours lol. the community gives to you, you give back to the community. even if it means answering back to a pm. i've gotten pm's from users with questions about rooting the amaze. instead of pushing them away, i helped them.
glacierguy said:
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
Say what u want about Xboarder, but he hit the nail on the head when he left. It's bull**** here. Moderators backed off/out, devs don't want to do anything here. I said it before ics and s=off.. the community is slowing development, and is the reason for the lack of devs.
I don't want to really post here any more. A few of the original Amaze members stuck around, but even they are fed up. My inbox gets 5-10 PMs per day. Usually from a noob I never heard of asking me to hold his hand.
I hate to say it like this, but WAAAAY too many spoiled little kids own this phone... Hence the childish community.
Good luck getting insertcoin, or ANY working CM9/AOSP ROMs. This community is full of Kangers and themers who can copy/paste/edit files and because they spend a lot of time doing it, they think they're devs.
I mean really, most devs here are not devs, they are senior members. Not even recognized as Recognized Contributors, just senior members. Lol.
Sent from my HTC Ruby running Sense 3.6
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I will see to it that we get working AOSP me and the tiamat dev are discussing gsm and ill fix it I promise. Sooner or later we will have it but I agree with everything else though
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
death4u said:
I have spent the last year or so on this forum, researching my old phone G2 and my current phone Amaze. Just 1 month ago i finally built the courage to root & S-OFF my G2, loaded up recovery and a rom. I went detail by detail on this forum, every question i thought of i hit the search bar and walla, someone else had the same issue and it was resolved instantly. So 2 weeks ago i decided to root my Amaze and S-Off using the juopunutbear tool. I read for 2 straight days and in my modding infancy i made some mistakes, But as i returned to reading, i was able to make whatever wrong i had right. No needs to making new threads or pm'ing anyone. It's a shame people are to lazy to do the simple things that are required on this forum.
Just wanna say a huge thanks to all the helpfull users on these boards, be it devs or just random testers or noobs willing to make mistakes like myself in order to enjoy their phone to the fullest extent.
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15 months, 1 post, and this guy has it figured out. he should be a role model for all! unfortunately, the people that need to see this post are too busy creating new threads and asking silly questions
mrmako777 said:
15 months, 1 post, and this guy has it figured out. he should be a role model for all! unfortunately, the people that need to see this post are too busy creating new threads and asking silly questions
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We should all link that post to them lol
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
I agree most with hasoon.... That said....
. The organisation here is atrocious...
The 5 step perfect how to walk through for any major topic is on Page 67 and never linked back to the op and takes 18 continuous hours of reading through misinformation to find... At which time you're exhausted and at roughly the highest level of doubt possible..
Roms ate not dated in the op or heading
Virtually nothing is stickied AND closed immediately
Chagelogs look like government cost justification spreadsheets...
Go look at the hd2 or even back to the HTC elf (touch)..
Ive been at this since the ipaq... This is by far the most impossible to discern community sub segment yet... I WILL agree their are a lot of princess's here... But I will ADMIT even I wont do crap yet till I DONT have to sort through 1200 posts to find what should be stickied at the top of the Page.
I post this as a a moderate between desperate nubes who don't deserve flaming AND desperate dev's sick of nubes not spending 18 hours doing what should be 5 minutes of searching.
The search function in the amaze area is almost pointless... We need 20 sticks at the top of the development forum with 3 posts then LOCK IT!!
I just re-read this and it sounds way harsher than what I wanted.. So.. Hugs and kisses to all!!..
Hope that helps!??
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using xda premium
ziggy46 said:
so you call all of us fake devs? just because alot of us dont know how to build from source very well doesnt mean were not real devs!
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Yes it does. Sorry, but theming doesn't make you a true dev. Its the difference between being a medical assistant and a doctor. Sure some medical assistants, have great knowledge... but doesn't make them a doctor.
You can be a great themer, hell even the best... but it doesn't make you a dev.
If you don't understand what you are doing and you are just doing it, you're not really a developer
And this is not a bad thing. Lot of great themers, and props to them for being as such.
This of course is just imho, not trying to flame you or anyone else.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
ok lets stop with this back and forth crap and get back on topic, hmm?
ive stopped posting in this forum too, cuz i was sick of all the pm's, being a lurker is much easier, so its hard to blame any of those devs for never making a rom for us. all we can do is ask nicely and hope for the best.
glacierguy, you probably wont be reading this, but if you are, i want to thank you for putting up with all the crap you had to put up with, and for your sake i hope one day we can come up with a browser extension that magnifies the search button x9000.
eclipze, thank you too, for creating speedrom and allowing me to use it as a base for my own, which i never released, because you beat me to the aosp punch although i may have possibly found a way to get aosp contacts/phone working!!! ill pm you with details tomorrow
now then, how will we go about asking all those great devs to come back? a petition? (not a come back now one, but a please come back one) i dont think multiple pm's will work, only piss em off.
ideas?
or maybe we could start a thread and pm them and have them post in it?
or maybe i just posted this to bump the thread? im not too sure yet...
I guess we lost our best dev
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=25869655
he is working on miui aokp and more lol XD
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
glacierguy said:
I wouldn't want to develop for this impatient community. Noobs posting like cockroaches, nobody wants to research, ETA requests from degenerates, everyone's an expert but no one knows anything.
...
I mean really, most devs here are not devs, they are senior members. Not even recognized as Recognized Contributors, just senior members. Lol.
Sent from my HTC Ruby running Sense 3.6
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Well, I agree with you about nobody wanting to do the legwork of research, and also I see a lot of jerk-faces..
and in no way am I trying to argue, you've been a cool guy, one of the few members still here that I respect..
..but in defense of those "not devs", it is really hard to tell the difference. Where/how does a dev start? I didn't really like the community of my last phone, the vibrant, and it had plenty of development so there was never much point for me to trying to learn with that-- but the amaze needs devs, and with the release of ICS on a phone I find to be awesome, I finally want to learn.
Thus far all I have released is just a remix of other people's work, and one jar file barely modified to get beats to work-- but I am trying to find challenges and a good starting point for going from a "not-dev" to something more. I mean, the people who ARE developers had to start somewhere right? The hard part is figuring out where/how.
Right now I am trying to learn how to either: make a proper port(which requires some pretty heavy knowledge to properly integrate kernels, bootclasspaths, etc), or contribute to aosp(actually build it, fix it, make changes to git, etc), port something like leedroid tweaks(requires lots of compiling/decompiling, modification of everything, etc).. I'm just trying to figure out which would help give me the best experience to help me move on to even BIGGER things.
I guess I'm just saying that because not everyone is just trying to kang other people's work, but has to use that as part of the process for getting to something more their own! I had no doubt I could put together some awesome flashables that would be 100% problem free(based on other work, with proper credit given), that is the only reason I've offered it, but I am trying to take that next step!
As far as leaving these forums and xboarder.. I get frustrated by these forums too, but I can't say I can respect many of xboarder's actions. I know he is young, and probably 99% of the issues I see are related to that- but if I learn something that I think others could use I would share it. If I could work openly with other people I would. If the community would be better served by me doing something WITH others I would do it in a heartbeat. But he liked to get offended by people who didn't matter, he wouldn't set aside his differences to work with other people doing the same thing because he would rather prove he can do it without them-- the way he was trying to do things is just as counter productive(IMHO) to the "open source" community as all of these noobs clogging up the pipes that are chasing away members who WANT to contribute!
I'm curious about two devs who had enough money donated to them that they could buy an amaze(and maybe even more), who released ONE rom, and haven't been seen/heard from again.. I didn't have much to contribute(broke ass college student), but I was looking forward to seeing them do more work.
And to someone who posted before me talking about the lack of organization- I agree fully- I think this is a BIG reason why so many noobs are clogging up threads and inboxes-- but isn't that usually solved by good contributors and a good mod?
First off, my apologies if a similar thread has already been posted. I have never seen one. I'm creating this thread to try to stress the importance of reading the OP's and entire threads of any ROM or MOD or any topics for that matter. Many questions that you may have, probably have already been answered within those threads. Redundant questions clog threads and hamper development discussion. Even if it may take a bit of time to read an entire thread, it will benefit everyone involved if you do. Our development community is incredibly rich with talent and skills and we, the users and flashers are most grateful to the developers for the time and knowledge they share with us. So please, keep threads clear by carefully reading instructions and trying to find any issues you may be having listed within the thread itself. Reading is beneficial, trust me. Again, if a similar thread has already been posted, I ask that the moderators remove this. I've just seen way too many questions posted repeatedly in all the threads I follow. After all, you will increase your own skill level by reading about all issues, even if you aren't currently experiencing it. Thanks to all who keep our devices updated and interesting.
EVOlved human
+1
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
[RANT]This user base. Aka the EVO LTE forums.
Why don't we start worrying about us and not them? They don't want to deal with XDA anymore ATM so just leave them be. Don't mention their names just pretend that this is a new device and we ourselves have to figure stuff out on our own. Got a question? SEARCH&READ, can't find it? Post a thread in Q&A. Mentioning them and talking about them isn't going to solve the cancer/problems you guys are. Not everyone is a problem just you guys make everything a problem. Try looking for your problem for a good 10 minutes on Google or XDA's Search Function. Not that hard people. I believe this is XDA-DEVELOPERS not the discuss about off topic things and what not. You got something useful post it here. If not don't post at all or if the thread have a Q&A post it there. If you got a question...again READ&SEARCH and don't ask it in here. If any ROM thread has a Q&A post it there. I think their problem with you guys is that most of us are just users and don't contribute anything and act like we care what's going on all you guys do is ask questions without even researching. Don't PM for your problems search it up or PM someone who isn't a Dev. For example say Corporal_modernback (lol example here) is the dev of the Rom you're using. DON'T PM THEM FOR LITTLE QUESTIONS LIKE "HEY HOW DO YOU FIX THIS TOGGLE OR HOW DO YOU GET YOUR PHONE TO DO TRIANGLES" PM THEM if you got a useful thing that they might need. If not them ask someone like me. I'm tired of seeing all this goodbye bull****. No offense to Captain and Sin but this is getting out of the line and YOU GUYS (THE PUBLIC/THE USERS) SHOULD START DOING S*** AND STOP BEING SPOILED PANSIES AND STOP EXPECTING **** TO BE DONE FOR YOU.
Thing is the devs here have lives. They're not robots on the computer that make these cool roms just for you.
Just my two cents. Feelings are welcomed.
Deleted to help clean up the mod edit.
EVOlved human
atheistevofreak said:
I agree and I posted a similar thread, a little less assertive, a week ago.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2657328
EVOlved human
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So you're saying he should have searched before posting?
I kid. I kid.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
dsEVOlve said:
So you're saying he should have searched before posting?
I kid. I kid.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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I must admit, I LOL'd.
EVOlved human
atheistevofreak said:
I must admit, I LOL'd.
EVOlved human
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dsEVOlve said:
So you're saying he should have searched before posting?
I kid. I kid.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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Hahaha I thought that too. But I'm not looking for a thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
I'd like to think I'm not too much of a noob since I'm not "scared" of technology & modifying things I "shouldn't be touching". I can't count how many times I tried to dual-boot Windows and Linux, and completely scrap the former for the latter (fun times)...........................but I'm still trying to figure out what's the point of flashing a kernel
But even being a noob to cell phones and rooting/flashing them, XDA is laid out well enough for someone that can at least understand new technological things quickly to be able to know what's going on with their phone and what they can/can't do and should/shouldn't do to it to achieve what they want.
akaTRAP said:
I'd like to think I'm not too much of a noob since I'm not "scared" of technology & modifying things I "shouldn't be touching". I can't count how many times I tried to dual-boot Windows and Linux, and completely scrap the former for the latter (fun times)...........................but I'm still trying to figure out what's the point of flashing a kernel
But even being a noob to cell phones and rooting/flashing them, XDA is laid out well enough for someone that can at least understand new technological things quickly to be able to know what's going on with their phone and what they can/can't do and should/shouldn't do to it to achieve what they want.
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A custom kernel will unleash extra features for your device. First thing I flash is a custom kernel
Sent from my HTCONE
n some cases the documentation is very wild and very on-the-go. Documentation is built over time and usually doesn't start off very well and can put-off certain users. Though that's not the problem.
What users need to understand that these development ROMs are not what you'd call a real release build. You're essentially testing everything that comes out... and that means it will have bugs. These ROMs, until "stable," are not plug and play type solutions. You are there to work with it and fix things. It always happens.
Change these user's mindset because that is the root cause. They think they're getting something that will be 100% what they want. It's not.
thicklizard said:
A custom kernel will unleash extra features for your device. First thing I flash is a custom kernel
Sent from my HTCONE
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Honestly, unless it greatly improves battery life, I'm not exactly concerned with the other benefits lol. I'm not necessarily needing an overclocked CPU.
However if a kernel makes a 4.4.x ROM more stable, then please let me know so I can flash one immediately
akaTRAP said:
Honestly, unless it greatly improves battery life, I'm not exactly concerned with the other benefits lol. I'm not necessarily needing an overclocked CPU.
However if a kernel makes a 4.4.x ROM more stable, then please let me know so I can flash one immediately
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You're totally preaching to the wrong choir.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
akaTRAP said:
Honestly, unless it greatly improves battery life, I'm not exactly concerned with the other benefits lol. I'm not necessarily needing an overclocked CPU.
However if a kernel makes a 4.4.x ROM more stable, then please let me know so I can flash one immediately
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure that you even understand why the kernels improve battery life. Custom kernels have much much more to bring to the table that simple overclocking, which is also something that most people do not do anymore since we don't have many single core decides these days.
Most kernels focus first on increasing performance. But by getting good performance, you get optimization from the processors, which results in better battery life (Intellidemand governor, anyone?).
If you want to greatly improve battery life, underclock your phone. You don't need a custom kernel to do that. But your phone will certainly suffer the speed differential that ours with custom kernels will not.
aarsyl said:
I'm not sure that you even understand why the kernels improve battery life. Custom kernels have much much more to bring to the table that simple overclocking, which is also something that most people do not do anymore since we don't have many single core decides these days.
Most kernels focus first on increasing performance. But by getting good performance, you get optimization from the processors, which results in better battery life (Intellidemand governor, anyone?).
If you want to greatly improve battery life, underclock your phone. You don't need a custom kernel to do that. But your phone will certainly suffer the speed differential that ours with custom kernels will not.
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Agreed too many people think all a custom kernel does is oc the the cpu. They don't understand the features they provide. S2w, USB fast charge, better cpu governors(better battery life), better io schedulers, build optimizations, etc...
Sent from my HTCONE
Ok, back on topic for a sec...
I have been holding my tongue and just sitting back watching all of the shenanigans that have been going down between Dev's and Noobs both. Honestly, I'm going to say that both parties are to blame in some fashion. (More on that in a second...)
As you can see my post count is not very high here. I have lurked...and read...and learned...and flashed...and broke things...read some more...and fixed even more things. With everything I have learned from this "amazing" community, I have been able to make my EVOLTE do some really truly amazing things. Some people have gone out of their way to help and make sure that the XDA-experience is a good one. Some, on the other hand have not... That happens with every forum in existance. There will be jerks, trolls, noobs, fools, and people who just wont use the search function, RTFM, etc.
There are "other" forums available that have a lot of info about Android development, none IMHO that happen to be as organized and concise as XDA. The down-side is that XDA has gotten a reputation for being full of pretentious as$holes. We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
My experience has been lukewarm at best. I, for one, know that I know almost nothing about dev'ing. I would love to learn more but between age, having a family, work (2 jobs BTW), I probably won't be able to just "RTFM" for dev'ing. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
In closing, I just want to say I know the Dev's are busy! @chubbzlou @Captain_Throwback @Sinistertensai @FinZ28 This hard work is not unappreciated in any way guys and THANK YOU!
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
2 pennies.
Mike Boogie said:
Ok, back on topic for a sec...
I have been holding my tongue and just sitting back watching all of the shenanigans that have been going down between Dev's and Noobs both. Honestly, I'm going to say that both parties are to blame in some fashion. (More on that in a second...)
As you can see my post count is not very high here. I have lurked...and read...and learned...and flashed...and broke things...read some more...and fixed even more things. With everything I have learned from this "amazing" community, I have been able to make my EVOLTE do some really truly amazing things. Some people have gone out of their way to help and make sure that the XDA-experience is a good one. Some, on the other hand have not... That happens with every forum in existance. There will be jerks, trolls, noobs, fools, and people who just wont use the search function, RTFM, etc.
There are "other" forums available that have a lot of info about Android development, none IMHO that happen to be as organized and concise as XDA. The down-side is that XDA has gotten a reputation for being full of pretentious as$holes. We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
My experience has been lukewarm at best. I, for one, know that I know almost nothing about dev'ing. I would love to learn more but between age, having a family, work (2 jobs BTW), I probably won't be able to just "RTFM" for dev'ing. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
In closing, I just want to say I know the Dev's are busy! @chubbzlou @Captain_Throwback @Sinistertensai @FinZ28 This hard work is not unappreciated in any way guys and THANK YOU!
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
2 pennies.
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Very well said. Kudos.
EVOlved human
Mike Boogie said:
Ok, back on topic for a sec...
I have been holding my tongue and just sitting back watching all of the shenanigans that have been going down between Dev's and Noobs both. Honestly, I'm going to say that both parties are to blame in some fashion. (More on that in a second...)
As you can see my post count is not very high here. I have lurked...and read...and learned...and flashed...and broke things...read some more...and fixed even more things. With everything I have learned from this "amazing" community, I have been able to make my EVOLTE do some really truly amazing things. Some people have gone out of their way to help and make sure that the XDA-experience is a good one. Some, on the other hand have not... That happens with every forum in existance. There will be jerks, trolls, noobs, fools, and people who just wont use the search function, RTFM, etc.
There are "other" forums available that have a lot of info about Android development, none IMHO that happen to be as organized and concise as XDA. The down-side is that XDA has gotten a reputation for being full of pretentious as$holes. We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
My experience has been lukewarm at best. I, for one, know that I know almost nothing about dev'ing. I would love to learn more but between age, having a family, work (2 jobs BTW), I probably won't be able to just "RTFM" for dev'ing. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
In closing, I just want to say I know the Dev's are busy! @chubbzlou @Captain_Throwback @Sinistertensai @FinZ28 This hard work is not unappreciated in any way guys and THANK YOU!
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
2 pennies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People all over XDA pm me with question on how to port and ask for advice I am more than willing to help out anyone if they want to learn. I don't mind answering question about anything just I do get annoyed when ppl ask the same question that has been answered many time in the thread or question about issue because they are coming from cm rom to sense rom and flash with out wiping and complaining about FCs. I agree us Dev's do take it a little too far but ppl need to understand that we get frustrated about non sense. We do this for fun but it's starting to feel like and old toy that out live it's use.
If you are willing to learn and have sometime pm with any question you like.
Mike Boogie said:
. Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
.
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There are numerous threads in the xda general section and also if you use Google many times it will point you to a different device forum on xda that will have a "how to" thread that had nothing to do with that specific device. There is more info out there than you could possibly read.
It's just not all in this devices forum. Which it doesn't need to be.
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
chubbzlou said:
If you are willing to learn and have sometime pm with any question you like.
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Click to collapse
I certainly will, whenever that time arrives.
_______________________________________
Phone: HTC EVO 4G LTE
Sense 5, S-Off
Tablet: ASUS Nexus 7.2
Rooted, Custom Rom & Kernel
_______________________________________
Mike Boogie said:
We've all heard it at least once... "XDA sucks, no one helps anyone, they hate noobs, etc." I digress...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As with anything in life, we remember the bad much longer then we do the good. With a bazillion members, we are bound to have a few that know how to invoke bad reactions
Another thing that most don't care to think about is that maybe some of us that are uninitiated WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE. But AFAIK there are no threads specifically for EDUCATING us that want to learn more about how these devices work. (I'd love to see some)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA University
Now, I may cut a bit deep here but here goes... This topic probably has been brought up due to the questions popping up all over the Sense5.5 dev thread. I think I may know why since I watched it unravel. When the thread was created, there was of course the standard disclaimer, (Broke it? Your fault, not mine) the download link, and the normal reserved posts for extra documentation.
Aside from that, the Q & A that is now posted, was copied from another thread AFTER I was shamed by @Sinistertensai for simply asking a question that WAS NOT posted in the thread YET!
Thankfully @FinZ28 and others created a thread just for Q/A. A thread I have yet to post in because I get all of my questions usually answer by searching threads. (That would also explain my tiny post count...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We mods are always here. While we may not answer in a timely fashion, suitable for some, we too are only human and get to peoples reports ASAP. Please always use the report button when you feel the ground comming out from beneath you. @FinZ28 is one of XDAs shinning examples of a Recognized Contributor. he gained his stripes by helping. Without the RC group, there would be much more chaos then what you have encountered.
I would love to learn more about how you all work your magic on these phones. I just don't want to get treated like a prick for asking a dumb question. The dumbest questions are the one's that are never asked.
Click to expand...
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I'm sorry you feel this way. It's a rarity of Devs (now a day) to determine the capability of any user.
Now consider the average 10 - 15y/o that comes in and demands attention (this of course never happens) and the end run is, had they read the slightest, they would have found an answer. Sadly today, this is the norm on XDA! That is what our Developers deal with.
While some Devs can be harsh or down right immature, we are here to try and keep the peace between the fractions.
And let me end with these parting words... Do not take offense to this, but see the humor XDA back in the 4 million member realm
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1
Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post???
It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN
Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT????
Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
WOW Man..
pitbull8265 said:
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1
Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post???
It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN
Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT????
Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
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Could not have said it better.... You hit the nail right on the head.. People respect those who back their work with support:good::good::good:
This DOES seem to be in SHORT reserve.. WELL STATED
Impressive
I have noticed this too.. Its like these people are too GOOD for Q&A and sometimes even respond to questions like they are PETTY and an inconvenience.. There ARE some who DO help, and those people deserve to know they are appreciated.. You in particular, have helped me a ton, so thanks.. Maybe you'll start a movement, and more people will start doing their part to help their followers...
+1
There is a SERIOUS shortage of helpers and an overage of shovelers
All these builds keep coming, and still the same problems on the one they put out before with a different NAME for the ROM.. Its like they change the name and recycled it..
I read through threads now, and if the OP doesn't hang out and help their users, I wont use their builds anymore.
Couldn't agree more!! Nicely said too
Be proud of your work.. Stick around and make sure people can..ya know, enjoy it too..
It's quality not quantity that matters. Stepping on other teams and developers to rush something out just to say "FIRST" will get you no where.. So while timely updates are important, if that's the only thing you post in your own thread.. "New build is up" when there's been 10 pages of people asking questions... I'll never support you, both publicly or financially.
I understand new enthusiast can be quite frustrating or maybe you just aren't a people type of person.. team up with someone that is... pass the q&a on to them, but do fricking something, people want support for YOUR roms and if you put out 20..that means all 20.
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
mapatton82 said:
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
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Yea, I'm somewhere between this and the op. They shouldn't be 100% absent, but on the same note, some consideration for the above quote is in order too.
While were venting, its possible the devs haven't figured out how to fix some of these issues, but it doesn't do a dam bit of good for 50 people to complain about the same thing and no one is posting logcats. So don't complain about things not getting fixed, if your not attaching logs to every post about issues.
Just my 2c, add 97c more and go buy a cheeseburger.
Sent from my G3, Unlocked by Team Codefire
mapatton82 said:
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
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Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
Variety is the spice of life. I'd rather have 20 that will get fixed eventually than just 1 that works perfectly. If they are all too similar for you then just move on to another one, build your own, or just wait for fully featured lollipop which will be here soon enough. If a thread is maintained or not - I'm just happy to have a thread. A couple devs have walked away already and it'd suck if more left. Just be grateful for what we've got and be patient.
Kris Nelson said:
Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
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The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes.
I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?"
Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home.
I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs.
Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report.
Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it.
Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time.
I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple.
However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some.
In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand.
Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well.
Ciao!
If you're a good parent, when you bring a child into this world, you raise it, and nurture it... creating it is not enough...
noun
1.
the act or process of developing; growth; progress:
iBolski said:
The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes.
I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?"
Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home.
I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs.
Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report.
Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it.
Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time.
I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple.
However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some.
In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand.
Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well.
Ciao!
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Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making..
I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
Kris Nelson said:
Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making..
I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
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I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs.
And since it does appear that you do not have to be a developer to post in the standard DEV forum, then that makes even more sense.
I do know that in another forum I frequented a lot, you were given developer status and only developers could create new threads in the DEV/ROM forum. That was to prevent a lot of "spam" postings of ROMs.
Makes me wonder if that's what is happening here.
iBolski said:
I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs.
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I wish you were correct but nope, he is the builder and maintainer. Trust me many more than 5+ when you include other carriers as well.. But not just the one, others have started as well... It's very frustrating that after 1 week, several messages of a very specific problem (not mine just someone i was helping) on different sites where they are posted.. I have to track down someone that i know can help but has NOTHING to do with any of these roms...and gets zippy cash.. Though he should..lol
Anyway, i truly value great developers and have learned who to support and who not to. I like to help people so the developers can build awesome stuff and its my way of keeping the simple crap of your plate so you can do just that..but when i can't even find the answer, the developer should be available.
Just saw your edit.. Yes i think that is happening too. I was always under the assumption that builders/maintainers did so for the actual devise and carriers they use.. I guess that's no longer the case.
Oadam11 is a builder of various roms for our G3's from source repositories available for anyone to build from, and anyone to commit to. He may or may not be doing any commits/merge requests - and even if he did those contributions might not be accepted into the various G3 forks.
In any case, he might not be in a position to contribute to feature requests or bug fixes. He might not be running his own builds of all these roms, past checking to see if they will boot and more or less work.
Say Team Vanir does a fork of their work for the G3, an official one. Ok, then you would ask for support from members of Team Vanir, sure, though you might not get much, depending on a lot of factors (including your attitude...) Then consider the possibility that someone just builds something like Commotio from publicly available sources, with just enough tweaks from somewhere to get it to compile and run, unofficially, on one or more G3 variants. I suspect that is where oadam11 is coming from. He doesn't create the roms, he builds them for G3's. He watches the repositories for each rom he has built for us, and when he sees that rom's devs have checked in and merged useful updates, then he rebuilds for us when he has time. Builds take a while. Then he makes them available for us users to download and install them, after some degree of testing.
The point is that he is in no way responsible for supporting the builds he produces of these team's work. It would be impossible for him to anyway. I am sure he gets permission and some degree of cooperation from any team project he builds from, but he is NOT a team member, or major contributor, for all of them. He is a noble builder and distributor, and you should expect nothing more from him than What he is already providing.
If you want to get a problem or new feature dealt with on any given rom, you must deal with the team's source contributers by raising issues on their gerrit or maybe working on an outstanding and team-prioritized bug as a contributor.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Thank you..you actually confirmed the point I was making. However, is the average person going to know all this? Of course not...should they do their research prior, of course but they don't... I see good teams being hurt by this as well.. Vanir just had an issue the other day.. Something is being lost in translation and by no means was i only referring to Adam.
I understand. It is interesting that in G+ just a little why ago someone asked David Kessler of Team Vanir who was their maintainer of the G3 Vanir and he replied that they don't have one.
There was also discussion about someone providing support, like answering questions. The idea of supporting a clueless user who had tried to flash TouchWiz onto a Vanir device, by beating the user over the head with an iPhone6+ was suggested. The devs have no patience with such users, generally.
That said, Holy Angel seems exceptional.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
The problem I have, is that when a person POSTS a Rom, and are the OP, they need to support what they post, and help the people posting questions in the thread, or BOW OUT!!! There are people posting and dumping... DONT Post a ROM if you're not willing or able to help the team you are Posting links to... Dont post it and then say "Any problems, contact THEM"
THAT PERSON mentioned, has a lot of them, all as OP, none supported other than.."New build up"
Raising the age limit for COPPA
The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to your liking.
That will really teach those mean developers a lesson.
Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well.
It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
DeanGibson said:
The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to his/her liking.
That will really teach those mean developers a lesson.
Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well.
It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
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Just because you want a feature, doesn't mean it's a good feature to add. If you did that, you would end up with something that could eventually become impossible to maintain.
There are SO many bugs right now in the AOSP code that these devs are trying to fix to make it work on this phone. I would rather those get fixed first.
And, do you think you are the only one to ask for features?
I'm a developer, not for android, but I write code for a living. And what you are asking for is what we call "scope creep". We have to weed out the "must haves" with the "wants". Must haves are the things that they user must have in order to perform their job. This is usually adding functionality that isn't there currently that is needed to complete their job. The "wants" are "I would like to have the ability to clear out all background apps with a single button or swipe". That is NOT needed on this phone, but it's a nice "to have" option, but it doesn't affect the overall performance of the OS itself. Yes, you might say it does because you can clear out the background apps, but in reality, those apps are NOT running. I don't want to get into the specifics of android app management, but those apps you see in the "recent apps" history are NOT running. They are suspended and not taking up ANY CPU cycles, what-so-ever. If they happen to be, then it's a poorly written app, and it means the dev knowingly circumvented the Android OS app management process which is a big no-no. In that case, you should go back to the dev of the app and demand they fix that.
But, you are free not to install the ROM. That's fine and that's your choice, but it just irks me when I see people make complaints like this who probably have no idea what the software development life cycle is all about. To me, fixing bugs right now is the main issue, not adding pretty enhancements to the OS.
And who's to say they aren't working on what you ask, especially if you ask for fixes to major issues (such as battery life, radio, etc)?
Remember, these are UNOFFICIAL releases. They are based off of AOSP source which is pretty much device-agnostic except when it comes to Nexus devices since those are Google devices and therefore, the AOSP source is built for those type of devices.
Android is completely different from iOS. iOS is built for a set of hardware that doesn't have much variance like Android does. Hence, that is why Apple controls both the software AND the hardware of iPhones. It means less fragmentation across devices, but it also means, they decide what is best and you have no way of getting the source.
Google releases the source for Android so you CAN have these custom ROMs built. But, because one Android device has a different hardware configuration from another (CPU and GPU's being the biggest ones), then anything that can take advantage of the hardware architecture for a particular phone means having to change the AOSP source to use any of those "advantages" from that hardware. Which then means, that source no longer works on other phones, only for the phone they modified it for.
So, give the devs some slack, please. They are working hard on it and it's not one dev. If it were, then give the guy even MORE slack. The source for Android is over 12gb along. That is where it's not even compiled. And, compiling the android source generally takes about 90 minutes. So, each "fix" they do requires recompiling (90 minutes) and then testing.
Then, more than likely, the "fix" either didn't work or it possibly broke something else. That means, going back, determining the issue, fixing it, recompiling (wait another 90 minutes) and test again.
That all takes time, people. We developers are NOT magicians, even though it might seem like it.
So, try to imagine trying to fix all the big bugs that you know about, then have to come here, read through ALL the posts and then log those requests down, prioritize them based on all the other work you have, make those changes, recompile, test, etc. It's not a easy and it gets frustrating. But believe me, when we do fix an issue or are able to give the users what they want, we get an extreme amount of satisfaction knowing that we were able to satisfy the "customer".
So please, be careful what you state about devs. Those that do read here usually have thick skins, but complain enough, and they might just quit and then you have nothing.
I understand where people are coming from, but you've been blaming the devs when it's not their fault. Again, the android source is huge and it takes more than one person to work on it. Especially if they are responsible for more than one device. Some devs are working on source for more than just this phone. So, add that to what I already stated and hopefully, you can begin to understand what the devs are going through.