Related
Hi! This is my first post on XDA.
As a user of CM for more than a year ago on my i9300, and after enduring a lot of bugs, I wonder: What happens to CM?
It's a known fact that the Exynos platform is a headache for developers because there is no documentation or open sources from Samsung. So, things like the camera, the sound system, the HDMI output and the GPU do not work as they should.
However, here are many good developers who have fixed these bugs, or at least improve them a bit. And most of these fixes are open source and accessible by everyone on Github.
So, what is waiting CM to implement them? Giving credit to their authors, obviously.
CyanogenMod announces itself as an alternative to the stock firmware that lets you take full advantage of your smartphone, making it better and more stable. Now they are also a company: Cyanogen Inc. As a reputable brand, it should offer a higher quality firmware. ROMs like Nameless (I'm using it right now) works better even being "not official".
This is just an opinion as a user. I'm not criticizing or forcing anyone to do anything. But if there are hundreds of people using a ROM with bugs that were fixed, why not implement them? I would be the first to help, but my skills are just about webdev.
Respect and thanks for i9300 developers on XDA, and sorry about my bad English. When I use my native language I express myself MUCH better. Trust me. lol
Thanks for reading.
There's no i9300 maintainer, and they accept pull requests (on gerrit) when somebody sends them.
Also, the fact that there's no i9300 maintainer is directly connected with what you already said - lack of proper documentation. Nobody wants to fix the mess that has been created since whole this time. The amount of hacks required to make AOSP work on i9300 is too damn high. I'm slowly fixing this mess, making i9300 a bit better supported, but it's still a long way until it's done. Take a look at ArchiKernel for example, why I had to create my own kernel? Because smdk4412 sources were so much outdated that they finished around update7, right after sudden death fix. XXELLA, 4.1.2 Android times, hello. So first thing was to cleanup the kernel mess, use up-to-date samsung sources (used for stocks) and make them work with AOSP. Now, if I commit my work to CM, they'll deny this instantly because new kernel supports only i9300 and this commit would break all other exynos4 variants from compiling. Yes, together we COULD fix it, make it work with other devices. But I have better things to do than trying to fix whole exynos4 family, I focus on i9300.
This is one of the reasons why we won't see any official cm12 nightly for i9300. Because nobody is going to maintain that. Even if we can fix something, nobody is going to commit that, unless we put serious effort for making it universal across all supported devices.
That's a real shame the device is in such a mess.
Actually, to be fair, using Omnirom 4.4.4, I'm finding that the only thing that doesn't work properly is the notification led (no one seems to know why it only works 3 times out of 4).
I'll probably end up buying a new phone next year, anyway, since buy this time next year the i9300 will be almost 4 years old. In smartphone terms, that means it's getting along a bit.
(oh, and thanks for all your work on it, JustArchi!)
JustArchi said:
There's no i9300 maintainer, and they accept pull requests (on gerrit) when somebody sends them.
Also, the fact that there's no i9300 maintainer is directly connected with what you already said - lack of proper documentation. Nobody wants to fix the mess that has been created since whole this time. The amount of hacks required to make AOSP work on i9300 is too damn high. I'm slowly fixing this mess, making i9300 a bit better supported, but it's still a long way until it's done. Take a look at ArchiKernel for example, why I had to create my own kernel? Because smdk4412 sources were so much outdated that they finished around update7, right after sudden death fix. XXELLA, 4.1.2 Android times, hello. So first thing was to cleanup the kernel mess, use up-to-date samsung sources (used for stocks) and make them work with AOSP. Now, if I commit my work to CM, they'll deny this instantly because new kernel supports only i9300 and this commit would break all other exynos4 variants from compiling. Yes, together we COULD fix it, make it work with other devices. But I have better things to do than trying to fix whole exynos4 family, I focus on i9300.
This is one of the reasons why we won't see any official cm12 nightly for i9300. Because nobody is going to maintain that. Even if we can fix something, nobody is going to commit that, unless we put serious effort for making it universal across all supported devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for answering my topic. The opinion of a developer like you is very appreciated.
This situation only seems to give more reasons for not buy a Samsung phone again. This lack of support from the manufacturer is a disrespect to the user's investment. And fragmentation strikes again. Sad but true.
Thanks again for your great work of keeping this device alive for all of us.
StephenJSweeney said:
That's a real shame the device is in such a mess.
Actually, to be fair, using Omnirom 4.4.4, I'm finding that the only thing that doesn't work properly is the notification led (no one seems to know why it only works 3 times out of 4).
I'll probably end up buying a new phone next year, anyway, since buy this time next year the i9300 will be almost 4 years old. In smartphone terms, that means it's getting along a bit.
(oh, and thanks for all your work on it, JustArchi!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried OmniROM few months ago, but it had some annoying bugs (like camera crashes) and I missed some customizations of CyanogenMod. Anyway, I'll try it again. My next buy might be a Motorola phone. The AOSP support is priceless.
ouch01 said:
I tried OmniROM few months ago, but it had some annoying bugs (like camera crashes) and I missed some customizations of CyanogenMod. Anyway, I'll try it again. My next buy might be a Motorola phone. The AOSP support is priceless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the camera crash on CM11 M11, and switched over to Omnirom shortly after that. I'm using Google Camera with an Omnirom nightly from November, and I've never had a camera crash.
Agree with you about getting a Motorola. I'd love it if the next Moto G refresh (if there is one) came with some more RAM, increased storage (16GB instead of 8), 4G, and a multicolour led. Being able to customize the colours to suit the category of app is something I love about custom ROMs. That should be baked into Android, to be honest (but at least there's LightFlow).
JustArchi said:
There's no i9300 maintainer, and they accept pull requests (on gerrit) when somebody sends them.
Also, the fact that there's no i9300 maintainer is directly connected with what you already said - lack of proper documentation. Nobody wants to fix the mess that has been created since whole this time. The amount of hacks required to make AOSP work on i9300 is too damn high. I'm slowly fixing this mess, making i9300 a bit better supported, but it's still a long way until it's done. Take a look at ArchiKernel for example, why I had to create my own kernel? Because smdk4412 sources were so much outdated that they finished around update7, right after sudden death fix. XXELLA, 4.1.2 Android times, hello. So first thing was to cleanup the kernel mess, use up-to-date samsung sources (used for stocks) and make them work with AOSP. Now, if I commit my work to CM, they'll deny this instantly because new kernel supports only i9300 and this commit would break all other exynos4 variants from compiling. Yes, together we COULD fix it, make it work with other devices. But I have better things to do than trying to fix whole exynos4 family, I focus on i9300.
This is one of the reasons why we won't see any official cm12 nightly for i9300. Because nobody is going to maintain that. Even if we can fix something, nobody is going to commit that, unless we put serious effort for making it universal across all supported devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i feel you
SlimRoms is the answer
unlike CM, Slim has a I9300 maintainer, has support, every weekly update works properly.
Devs should really take a look at Slim's Gerrit and Freenode/#SlimDev
StephenJSweeney said:
I had the camera crash on CM11 M11, and switched over to Omnirom shortly after that. I'm using Google Camera with an Omnirom nightly from November, and I've never had a camera crash.
Agree with you about getting a Motorola. I'd love it if the next Moto G refresh (if there is one) came with some more RAM, increased storage (16GB instead of 8), 4G, and a multicolour led. Being able to customize the colours to suit the category of app is something I love about custom ROMs. That should be baked into Android, to be honest (but at least there's LightFlow).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing with Motorola is that their stock roms are basically just stock android. No laggy touchwiz skins, just a google launcher. Bloatware is at a minimum. A low spec phone like the moto G still is great because of how vanilla its experience is.
Rumours have it that the galaxy S6 international variant will have an exynos processor. I found a thread comparing the leaked info of the snapdragon 810 vs the next exynos processor and it seems that the exynos is getting a lot of popularity from users on the thread and it ain't no slouch. As it is now, phone's are so fast, that it's very hard to find a way of improving them. Like who compares app opening times nowadays? That will be much the case for 2015's flagships as well. I doubt I'd be disappointed if I had the next Samsung release if I thought I'd be in for a laggy UI, it's just whether I can tolerate the touchwiz experience or if I wanna switch to a vanilla aosp rom. That's where the problem arises.
arashvenus said:
SlimRoms is the answer
unlike CM, Slim has a I9300 maintainer, has support, every weekly update works properly.
Devs should really take a look at Slim's Gerrit and Freenode/#SlimDev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But only in your imagination. There is noone at slimrom. Just check their gerrit.
whatsgood said:
Rumours have it that the galaxy S6 international variant will have an exynos processor .... I found a thread comparing the leaked info of the snapdragon 810 vs the next exynos processor and it seems that the exynos is getting a lot of popularity from users on the thread and it ain't no slouch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aren't the Exynos processors the cause of much grief in the open source community, though? Aren't Qualcomm processors, such as the Snapdragon, much more popular because they're easier to work with..?
StephenJSweeney said:
Aren't the Exynos processors the cause of much grief in the open source community, though? Aren't Qualcomm processors, such as the Snapdragon, much more popular because they're easier to work with..?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct.
Eleve11 said:
Correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then, no more Samsung phones for me, then. Not unless they use Qualcomm..!
StephenJSweeney said:
Aren't the Exynos processors the cause of much grief in the open source community, though? Aren't Qualcomm processors, such as the Snapdragon, much more popular because they're easier to work with..?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's what i thought but people are showing interests due to how powerful the processor is. I think they're saying it's more powerful than the snapdragon 810. I'm not that techy but they were mentioning that the new exynos will be smaller in size or something, whilst the snapdragon will be bigger. Apparently smaller is better, but yes the problem is open sourcing. If you want to install a stock android custom rom, it will be difficult for developers to build a rom that can push your phone to it's full potential. Snapdragon doesn't have this problem.
Basically if you love flashing different roms that are fully functional a snapdragon 810 phone is for you. If you like what Samsung offers in it's next flagship and won't be tempted to flash other roms then the exynos is for you
whatsgood said:
Yes, that's what i thought but people are showing interests due to how powerful the processor is. I think they're saying it's more powerful than the snapdragon 810. I'm not that techy but they were mentioning that the new exynos will be smaller in size or something, whilst the snapdragon will be bigger. Apparently smaller is better, but yes the problem is open sourcing. If you want to install a stock android custom rom, it will be difficult for developers to build a rom that can push your phone to it's full potential. Snapdragon doesn't have this problem.
Basically if you love flashing different roms that are fully functional a snapdragon 810 phone is for you. If you like what Samsung offers in it's next flagship and won't be tempted to flash other roms then the exynos is for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to have less powerful processor, with full documentation how it works, rather than exynos and big giant hackish black box, which noone understands.
The problem is not with the exynos, but with Samsung. Judging from Exynos4, their kernel sources and own experience, exynos may look like it works, but amount of hacks and dirty workarounds to make it work, is too damn high. This could all be solved if Samsung changed their policy from "respect GPL, f*ck the rest" to "respect developers, show them that our SoC can be developer-friendly, too".
The problem is that we're not even 0.01% of Samsung sales, so why should they care. I'm not going to buy Samsung phone again, regardless if it has Snapdragon inside or not. The problem is not with the Exynos, the problem is in Samsung's policy.
JustArchi said:
I prefer to have less powerful processor, with full documentation how it works, rather than exynos and big giant hackish black box, which noone understands.
The problem is not with the exynos, but with Samsung. Judging from Exynos4, their kernel sources and own experience, exynos may look like it works, but amount of hacks and dirty workarounds to make it work, is too damn high. This could all be solved if Samsung changed their policy from "respect GPL, f*ck the rest" to "respect developers, show them that our SoC can be developer-friendly, too".
The problem is that we're not even 0.01% of Samsung sales, so why should they care. I'm not going to buy Samsung phone again, regardless if it has Snapdragon inside or not. The problem is not with the Exynos, the problem is in Samsung's policy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah +1 for that. My next Phone will be definitly a Sony or a One plus. I think both are the developer friendliest in android ...
what for get android with huge ram but still lag? i won't go for android for sure. just stick with ios better. with android 8gb & asop, cm etc still can't fix the bugs. android received update so slow than ios.
khanmein said:
what for get android with huge ram but still lag? i won't go for android for sure. just stick with ios better. with android 8gb & asop, cm etc still can't fix the bugs. android received update so slow than ios.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you are right but i think the most decent phone is the htc one......i would buy a windows phone rather than an iPhone
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qn8s4/new_impressive_lollipop_touchwiz_gives_nexus_line/
This is an interesting article on the new touchwiz that appears in android lollipop on the galaxy note 3. Surprisingly I can see nothing but praise from this person, apparently it seems to be running very well in comparison to touchwiz on KitKat. Is Samsung finally doing something good?
whatsgood said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qn8s4/new_impressive_lollipop_touchwiz_gives_nexus_line/
This is an interesting article on the new touchwiz that appears in android lollipop on the galaxy note 3. Surprisingly I can see nothing but praise from this person, apparently it seems to be running very well in comparison to touchwiz on KitKat. Is Samsung finally doing something good?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its useless even if they port it to our i9300..1gb of ram..maybe its time to upgrade to more stronger phone..
The Z4 Tablet is possibly my dream tablet, it has a great screen, microSD slot, good battery life and it seems dev-friendly.
I've got no Sony experience and I see surprisingly little custom ROM development. How 'dev-friendly' is this tablet? Does Sony provide source codes, drivers? Are they easy in unlocking bootloaders and flashing stuff like radios? Does it seem likely custom post-Marshmallow ROMs will be cooked in 1,5-2 years from now on?
do some research!
e.g. here "Anybody work on root?" much off topic posts unfortunately
there are two section with the title "Development" here ...
look at the phones: Z3+ and Z5 (nearly the same sources)
and all you need with almost useful documentation in SONY's Developer world:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/
DHGE said:
e.g. here "Anybody work on root?" much off topic posts unfortunately
there are two section with the title "Development" here ...
look at the phones: Z3+ and Z5 (nearly the same sources)
and all you need with almost useful documentation in SONY's Developer world:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I admit my question was a bit lazy, but it'd be pretty easy for people like you with lots of experience/knowledge on this Sony platform to give me a general idea.
I ordered a Z4T, but while reading this subforom while waiting for the shipment, things start to itch me a bit.
I'll anwer my own questions the way I see it now: Sony is pretty developer-friendly by providing source code and build instructions, but it's pretty buggy and there are very few developers doing stuff for the Z4T. I guess it's because of the bad availability of the device and the relatively small user base. The people @ FXP build ROMs, but I haven't heard much about how useful these builds are. If anything, I heard people downgrading from the 5.1.1 build. Rooting is only possible by unlocking the bootloader and flashing @AndroPlus' custom kernel. His current TWRP build has a bug that makes it impossible to restore a device backup.
Sony provides the option for unlocking the bootloader, but you'll completely lose your warranty. Furthermore, the TA partition will be irreverably changed and you'll lose functionality.
Marhsmallow has been announced, so there's that.
SONY's devices are good compromise for me
@jelbo
Good summary!
My opinion:
The SONY devices are good hardware. I like them because they are water resistant since I lost a phone after cycling in heavy rain.
I have a Tablet xperia Z with CyanogenMod on it. Android 5.1
The start with that 3rd party ROM was slow and it was quite buggy. Also battery life was worse than with stock ROM.
I have a SAMSUNG Galxy S5 phone. They have Knox-protection on their devices. Quite evil compared to SONY. Because it was released with Kitkat I could root it via exploit and keep Knox untriggered. I could get CyanogenMod, even Marshmallow Alphas for the phone. But the drivers are not that good and the battery life with stock is very good (up to four days for me).
So I will keep that phone on stock and I used Titanium Backup to get rid of SAMSUNG's bloatware.
SAMSUNG do not provide documentation and many of their SOCs are proprietary - no chance to do any development for these devices.
Long post short: SONY is very open and relatively easy to hack on their devices.
Better (now) in price and features than the Nexus devices IMO. I would never buy a device without any chance to do development on it.
I think the bug in TWRP will get fixed soon (has bitten me once).
Thanks for your kind reply
DHGE said:
@jelbo
Good summary!
My opinion:
The SONY devices are good hardware. I like them because they are water resistant since I lost a phone after cycling in heavy rain.
I have a Tablet xperia Z with CyanogenMod on it. Android 5.1
The start with that 3rd party ROM was slow and it was quite buggy. Also battery life was worse than with stock ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds familiar. In my experience with the last few phones I've had, AOSP-based ROMs were always a tad slower and less battery-friendly than stock or stock based ROMs. For example, the stock 'Google Play Edition' ROMs ran like a dream on my HTC One m7, but others were always less smooth / battery friendly.
So, for the Z4T I'm not partularly worried about the lack of 3rd party ROMs. I'll be fine with stock rooted. But for the longer term, because of the unpopularity, I think it's unlikely to see much going on in a year from now on and that kind of makes me doubt my purchase.
I have a SAMSUNG Galxy S5 phone. They have Knox-protection on their devices. Quite evil compared to SONY.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but not more evil than Sony I think. Samsung's bootloader unlock 'trips' Knox and it'll disable features like secure storage and services that depend on it. It's also irreversible. It's an awful lot like Sony's irreversible TA partition 'tripping'.
Because it was released with Kitkat I could root it via exploit and keep Knox untriggered. I could get CyanogenMod, even Marshmallow Alphas for the phone. But the drivers are not that good and the battery life with stock is very good (up to four days for me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could root my Galaxy S6 using an exploit, without tripping Knox. I'm running 5.1.1 with an engineering bootloader, while still having my Knox untriggered. It's a luxury I'm not gonna have on the Z4T, unless an exploit will be found.
SAMSUNG do not provide documentation and many of their SOCs are proprietary - no chance to do any development for these devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's one of the reasons I want to avoid a Samsung as my new tablet. Exynos is a black box, so custom, stock-based ROMs will be the best you can get. BUT, I'm doubting now. Custom, stock-based ROMs are fine with me - as you mention, battery life is great. And on top of that, Samsung is so popular that lots of development is being done. I think chances are bigger to see the Marshmallow successor being ported for older Samsung devices than we'll see on this Sony Z4 Tablet in the future. But that's an assumption, I don't have Sony experience, but I see things re pretty dead here, even though the device was released quite a long time ago.
Long post short: SONY is very open and relatively easy to hack on their devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really seeing that yet, but again, I've only looked at the Z4T now.
Better (now) in price and features than the Nexus devices IMO. I would never buy a device without any chance to do development on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The microSD is an essential part for me. If the Pixel C would have had a microSD-slot I'd have chosen that. Development and future updates are a huge selling point for Nexus devices.
I think the bug in TWRP will get fixed soon (has bitten me once).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's hope so.
Hopefully the Z4T will get some more love soon, as I have just sent my Pixel C back and taken a punt at a open box Amazon warehouse deal last night with 40% off the LTE
I love my Z3CT, Z3C and Ultra, which have had great support from the devs, so am expecting the Z4 to be the best hardware of the lot, but would also love a root method while keeping the bootloader locked for now.
Heres to hoping perhaps MM will lead to some kernel exploits.
scoobydu said:
[...] as I have just sent my Pixel C back [...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What made you return your Pixel C?
I love my Z3CT, Z3C and Ultra, which have had great support from the devs [...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did it take a while to get to that point? Do you think the Z4T will have the same support?
jelbo said:
What made you return your Pixel C?
Did it take a while to get to that point? Do you think the Z4T will have the same support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get me started on the Pixel C from Google UK pricing error on day 1 and their refusal for a week to refund or swapout 32g for 64g devices, due to their error; then I had a hardware fault with the screen not responding after 24hrs of use. I found their support just awful More issues were being reported in the xda forum and I decided I wasn't going to spend £550 to beta test for google. Nice solid device but heavier that the Z4 and sliding the keybard across the keyboard to remove it, just made me nervous of scratching something everytime I did it.
To be honest the Z4 forums are very quiet, but so were the pixel c's; as a few people were commenting.
I had to root my Z3 Tab by loading the Z3 phone firmware and rooting that, as that had a kernel vunerability and the kernel on the Z3 tab didn't.
Once the Z3 phone firmware was loaded and rooted, I could backup my TA partition and reload the Z3 tab firmware, rooted.
Its generally the phones that get root and the tabs have to utilise what they can, unless of course a dev has the tab.
The tab forums got much busier once the device had a less risky root method.
Sad to see that Nut hasn't got a recovery done, but I am assuming that due to root only being available by unlocking and losing TA, so limited testers, but haven't had time to read the history yet.
I have to say though that the Z4 is fantastic in comparison to the Pixel C and I am very glad I have reverted to the device that I know especially at £360 for the LTE version + keyboard on Amazon open box. First time using and the device is pristine. To be fair the Z4 is many iterations of getting it right and the Pixel is googles first try. Once its at Pixel C v4 it will probably be very good!
Heres to hoping MM is officially released soon, so the chances of rooting may get better.
from Nut
This is the reason why I didn't release XZDR for the Z3+/Z4/TabZ4 yet, too much difference with the Shinano and older device trees.
Edit:
That should be solved with 2.9 though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems the 64 bits is a material change, so things need to progress in 2.9 from my early readings.
scoobydu said:
Dont get me started on the Pixel C from Google UK pricing error on day 1 and their refusal for a week to refund or swapout 32g for 64g devices, due to their error; then I had a hardware fault with the screen not responding after 24hrs of use. I found their support just awful More issues were being reported in the xda forum and I decided I wasn't going to spend £550 to beta test for google. Nice solid device but heavier that the Z4 and sliding the keybard across the keyboard to remove it, just made me nervous of scratching something everytime I did it.
To be honest the Z4 forums are very quiet, but so were the pixel c's; as a few people were commenting.
I had to root my Z3 Tab by loading the Z3 phone firmware and rooting that, as that had a kernel vunerability and the kernel on the Z3 tab didn't.
Once the Z3 phone firmware was loaded and rooted, I could backup my TA partition and reload the Z3 tab firmware, rooted.
Its generally the phones that get root and the tabs have to utilise what they can, unless of course a dev has the tab.
The tab forums got much busier once the device had a less risky root method.
Sad to see that Nut hasn't got a recovery done, but I am assuming that due to root only being available by unlocking and losing TA, so limited testers, but haven't had time to read the history yet.
I have to say though that the Z4 is fantastic in comparison to the Pixel C and I am very glad I have reverted to the device that I know especially at £360 for the LTE version + keyboard on Amazon open box. First time using and the device is pristine. To be fair the Z4 is many iterations of getting it right and the Pixel is googles first try. Once its at Pixel C v4 it will probably be very good!
Heres to hoping MM is officially released soon, so the chances of rooting may get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply, good info. I'm glad to hear some reassuring comments on the Z4T. Looks like you had a great deal as well. In the Netherlands they're hard to get. I payed €635 for the WiFi model... I'm still doubting a little bit to go for a discounted Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 for €380 though. I read it'll even get Marshmallow in April. Price difference is pretty big and there's lots of stuff for it already.
I'll have a look in some Xperia phone subforums on XDA.
jelbo said:
Thanks for your reply, good info. I'm glad to hear some reassuring comments on the Z4T. Looks like you had a great deal as well. In the Netherlands they're hard to get. I payed €635 for the WiFi model... I'm still doubting a little bit to go for a discounted Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 for €380 though. I read it'll even get Marshmallow in April. Price difference is pretty big and there's lots of stuff for it already.
I'll have a look in some Xperia phone subforums on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there are no deals on the Z4 Tab in the UK and all the new prices are the same retail price.
Thats why I decided to take a chance on the Amazon one, as I could return it if it was damaged or anything; and normal 12 months warranty with Amazon.
For me I haven't had a Samsung since my Tab 7.7 and wouldn't personally have another, but each to their own. The devs were always complaining at Samsung not releasing all the source code to their SoC's, wheereas Sony seemed to be more dev friendly.
The Z3 Tab is fantastic if you didn't mind the 8inch, but I am hoping once the Z3+ root is forthcoming and general 64bit root/recovery is done, then we will have some progress; he says, not being able to help the devs on whats seems a lot of work.
jelbo said:
I've got no Sony experience and I see surprisingly little custom ROM development. How 'dev-friendly' is this tablet? Does Sony provide source codes, drivers? Are they easy in unlocking bootloaders and flashing stuff like radios? Does it seem likely custom post-Marshmallow ROMs will be cooked in 1,5-2 years from now on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame that such a good device is so low supported by free developers even though it seems it's more open by the Sony in comparison with Samsung.
I noticed that some people think in the thread that not so much users have this device. I have an old phone so called HTC desire HD which was released in the faraway 2010, it is excellent supported as it even has the contemporary android 6.0. I don't believe that there are more HTC decide HD users rather than xperia tablet z4 users. Moreover, I see as my comrade-users of our device crying ? everyday on a Russian 4pda.ru site, that we wait but there's no a good root method, there is no a good description or a video showing us how does the only custom ROM work. What works and what is broken. And just not seeing good news over the course of several months. Of course, I am very disappointed in dramatic fashion, but I hope The change will come.
Thank you for attention!)
cut the drama
- you should not compare a phone to a tablet (numberwise)
- look into the fora for phones Z3+/Z4 and Z5
they have nearly identical SoCs, differences a sometimes build options
- there is a HUGE xperia cross devices forum here with tons of additional info
- the Z4 Tablet became available in June 2015
- the first sources from SONY showed up in .... June 2015
- I rooted the device in July - having done no Android programming or rooting before
- I ordered the device after researching (see below) and before there was root available because my findings showed that there would be sources and documentation from SONY so that if all else fails I would get later a custom rom or could even roll my own
- a video for "seeing" developing/hacking? Dream on...
- there is lots of documentation (even video) available, maybe no video on how to do a web search or an xda search
- searching (and reading and trying things out) worked for me - coming from SAMSUNG phones with no prior development experience on Android ... TRY IT
DHGE said:
- you should not compare a phone to a tablet (numberwise)
- look into the fora for phones Z3+/Z4 and Z5
they have nearly identical SoCs, differences a sometimes build options
- there is a HUGE xperia cross devices forum here with tons of additional info
- the Z4 Tablet became available in June 2015
- the first sources from SONY showed up in .... June 2015
- I rooted the device in July - having done no Android programming or rooting before
- I ordered the device after researching (see below) and before there was root available because my findings showed that there would be sources and documentation from SONY so that if all else fails I would get later a custom rom or could even roll my own
- a video for "seeing" developing/hacking? Dream on...
- there is lots of documentation (even video) available, maybe no video on how to do a web search or an xda search
- searching (and reading and trying things out) worked for me - coming from SAMSUNG phones with no prior development experience on Android ... TRY IT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good summary.
Small point, but the rooting element is by unlocking the bootloader, which not all will want to do. It is though an option that exists and we are thankful for those that have done so in order to progress the dev support.
I got a Project Tango tablet from work, it has k1 tegra chipset and it is stuck on original firmware, which is android 4.4.4 and doesnt performs very well on normal tasks as far as it is very powerfull hardware. Any chance I can upgrade it with custom firmware? Maybe shield tablet which has similar hardware without the special sensors?
Last time I had the tango (back in July 2016) there were no custom firmware/rom for it. I would check out the Tango Devs group on G+ to see if anyone has created an update for it.
Any news about this? Any help would be much appreciated.
SrAgaporni said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off you are going to need root the device. Then a custom recovery. Then you can think of customs ROMS if you can work out the hardware and the appropriate drivers.
Just because it has the same processor as the Shield does not mean that all the other hardware is the same.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
ashleyglassel said:
First off you are going to need root the device. Then a custom recovery. Then you can think of customs ROMS if you can work out the hardware and the appropriate drivers.
Just because it has the same processor as the Shield does not mean that all the other hardware is the same.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, the process is crystal clear, I just wanted to know if anybody already advanced anything in this device, but it feels as there is no progress at all, so It will be worth to sell this nearly new tablet and buy another device with more community working with it. A shame, with 128Gb emmc, 4Gb RAM and a powerfull processor...
It would be great if we could get any assistance from Google on this, I highly am doubtful they will release kernels but it is worth trying to petition them to release them, or anything of value towards this, to the community. The hardware is excellent on the tango Dev tablet, but at this point the software is absimal, and, as is, barely functions. I find most software cannot run and constant glitches make using it worse than a contemporary generic device despite an excellent touchscreen and the tegra processor.
I have rooted my Tango tablet, but what hopes do we have of a community rom running any newer version of Android? (5.1+) The shield tablet has similar hardware and could maybe be used as a base to develop from, as the basic kernel will be similar. anyone determine what wifi/Bluetooth hardware is on board the tango?
Come on Google, help us get full functionality and release the kernels!
Is there any one behind this project?
alexcount said:
It would be great if we could get any assistance from Google on this, I highly am doubtful they will release kernels but it is worth trying to petition them to release them, or anything of value towards this, to the community. The hardware is excellent on the tango Dev tablet, but at this point the software is absimal, and, as is, barely functions. I find most software cannot run and constant glitches make using it worse than a contemporary generic device despite an excellent touchscreen and the tegra processor.
I have rooted my Tango tablet, but what hopes do we have of a community rom running any newer version of Android? (5.1+) The shield tablet has similar hardware and could maybe be used as a base to develop from, as the basic kernel will be similar. anyone determine what wifi/Bluetooth hardware is on board the tango?
Come on Google, help us get full functionality and release the kernels!
Is there any one behind this project?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you want the development of the kernel at least started, make the kernel start logs. use the program syslog from Google Play for example.
I completely forgot that I found and downloaded the source code of the kernel on this tablet. The kernel is there version 3.10.24. With a strong desire, it could easily be adapted to the modern kernel 3.10.96.
I have the possibility of getting this tablet sub $100 and would be extremely interested if a newer Android could be loaded here. Or even maybe something like UBports (formerly Ubuntu Touch)
Vartom said:
I completely forgot that I found and downloaded the source code of the kernel on this tablet. The kernel is there version 3.10.24. With a strong desire, it could easily be adapted to the modern kernel 3.10.96.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't find this source anywhere, could you upload a copy? I know a few people, myself included are looking for it. Someone else who is looking https://plus.google.com/u/1/+GregWillardr3pwn/posts/V1K5XDBtKig
ShapeShifter499 said:
I can't find this source anywhere, could you upload a copy? I know a few people, myself included are looking for it. Someone else who is looking https://plus.google.com/u/1/+GregWillardr3pwn/posts/V1K5XDBtKig
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have been with me for so long that I don’t remember exactly where I downloaded them from. I remember that it was some kind of official site about the project of tango.
1
2
3
Vartom said:
They have been with me for so long that I don’t remember exactly where I downloaded them from. I remember that it was some kind of official site about the project of tango.
1
2
3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you don't know exactly if these were the most recent version of the source?
If these are not the latest, it's better than nothing. I'm going to share these with that other guy and on reddit. Thank you for uploading these.
For anyone following this, the latest kernel appears to be here https://github.com/r3pwn/android_kernel_google_yellowstone
Hi guys, orginal Android 4.4 is still the latest Rom available, correct ?
HI.. I need the ROM stock for this device, Someone?
Hi again.. I found this on github, someone know something about this project?
NVIDIA AOSP device tree for building Project Tango Android 7.0
https://github.com/Project-Google-Tango/android_device_google_yellowstone
Anonikat I looked at that too. How great would that be? A 7.0 N even if I'd loose some Tango functionality. I'd just like it as a regular tablet, personally.
ShapeShifter499 said:
I have the possibility of getting this tablet sub $100 and would be extremely interested if a newer Android could be loaded here. Or even maybe something like UBports (formerly Ubuntu Touch)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Closest I've seen so far that seems functional for the most part is LineageOS 15.1 (Android 8.1) that's listed as an unofficial release in this forum.
Here is TWRP recovery project for this device https://forum.xda-developers.com/sh...overy-project-tango-k1-atap-twrp-3-2-t3901519
I'm really interested in getting this phone, I have skipped the Note 8 until I see what this phone brings, and from what I saw at the presentation I looks like an AWESOME phone, but when I look at past Huawei flagships (mate 9, P9, etc) almost non-existing major updates, custom roms support and mods I start thinking if paying a premium price for a phone like this its really worth for a person like me who likes to play around with rooting, modding and installing custom roms in my devices or should I play safe and get a Samsung or Pixel device.
No. Do not buy Huawei if modding is important.
Non existent with previous mate 9 and barely with mate 8.
Across the board, it's not getting easier
intruda119 said:
No. Do not buy Huawei if modding is important.
Non existent with previous mate 9 and barely with mate 8.
Across the board, it's not getting easier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your answer, there are great devices but not for us.
yael20 said:
I'm really interested in getting this phone, I have skipped the Note 8 until I see what this phone brings, and from what I saw at the presentation I looks like an AWESOME phone, but when I look at past Huawei flagships (mate 9, P9, etc) almost non-existing major updates, custom roms support and mods I start thinking if paying a premium price for a phone like this its really worth for a person like me who likes to play around with rooting, modding and installing custom roms in my devices or should I play safe and get a Samsung or Pixel device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
zelendel said:
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your answer, so that being the case, which phone(s) would you recommend me?
yael20 said:
Thanks for your answer, so that being the case, which phone(s) would you recommend me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If modding is your thing then I would look at something like one plus. Things to avoid are devices with dual partition setup. The pixel showed how much devs dont want to deal with that.
Things to look out for are things like kernel source being up to date which I hate to say knocks 90% of the China based OEM out of it. Maybe the Euro version of samsung devices might be OK but even they get little to no real devs support. I would look around the site. See what devices have real support. No I am not talking about tons of los based roms. That is not development. I mean real development with system mods and hardware tweaks.
zelendel said:
If modding is your thing then I would look at something like one plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately OnePlus sucks at many things that are important for many of us so I guess we don't have a choice.
zadox said:
Unfortunately OnePlus sucks at many things that are important for many of us so I guess we don't have a choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Things like what? The one bonus is that with one plus it can be fixed for the most part as to where even the kernel code on huawei devices is useless.
zelendel said:
Things like what? The one bonus is that with one plus it can be fixed for the most part as to where even the kernel code on huawei devices is useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can we start with the MicroSD ?
zadox said:
Can we start with the MicroSD ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This I agree with but many of the OEM are opting out of sdcards ever since google removed all the code fore native sdcard support from android years ago. But to be hones 64gb is more then enough for a mobile device. Mix that with some common sense (backing up stuff. No I dont mean cloud backup lol)
zadox said:
Unfortunately OnePlus sucks at many things that are important for many of us so I guess we don't have a choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the one plus is a good device with great specs, but I don't like it's design... May be due it's Iphoneish look lol
zelendel said:
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not? You can get systemless root (Exynos) or TWRP installed classic root (Snapdragon) for Note8.
Sure Knox and/or SafetyNet gets tripped, but that's the price to pay for rooting.
But you can root current flagship phones and there's plenty of modding community for Note8.
vasra said:
Why not? You can get systemless root (Exynos) or TWRP installed classic root (Snapdragon) for Note8.
Sure Knox and/or SafetyNet gets tripped, but that's the price to pay for rooting.
But you can root current flagship phones and there's plenty of modding community for Note8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung based roms are not development. Samsung devices have sucked for development for years. This is why main stream developers don't get that device.
Ok, thanks for the info. I haven't followed the scene. Just installed a good LO fork on my Note3 and it is working wonders (sans NFC and GPS/camera performance is generic).
zelendel said:
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That being said , what are 3 phones that you can say "this is a good phone, and I can do all lot of things with it("? is the nexus 6p one of them? thanks for your help.
yael20 said:
That being said , what are 3 phones that you can say "this is a good phone, and I can do all lot of things with it("? is the nexus 6p one of them? thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. The 6p (minus the battery issues) is good for rom development. It will get support from 3rd parties for at least another 2 years.
I would say the one plus 3 or 3t
The nexus 6p
Any one of the Sony devices as they have a good development setup.
yael20 said:
I'm really interested in getting this phone, I have skipped the Note 8 until I see what this phone brings, and from what I saw at the presentation I looks like an AWESOME phone, but when I look at past Huawei flagships (mate 9, P9, etc) almost non-existing major updates, custom roms support and mods I start thinking if paying a premium price for a phone like this its really worth for a person like me who likes to play around with rooting, modding and installing custom roms in my devices or should I play safe and get a Samsung or Pixel device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@auras76 (confirmed via private message that he will be supporting Mate 10 and continue his awesome rom that he has for Mate 9 ->[ROM] RomAur-v2.2-[16/10]-[UB][7.0_Fw.b197]-FAST-STABLE :good:
yael20 said:
I think the one plus is a good device with great specs, but I don't like it's design... May be due it's Iphoneish look lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem with OP (I switched from OP5 to IP7+ just recently because I kept hearing rumors that OP5T/OP6 might come out and I was afraid the value might drop to a point where re-sale value is no longer profitable..IP7+ is awesome in many ways, but my initial goal was getting LG V30 but now it seems Mate 10 is much wiser choice because of its awesome screen to body ratio + 16:9 aspect ratio which currently IMO is way better than 18:9/18:9.5 considering full app support, including youtube and so on) is that it does not have its own identity - its basically an iphone clone design wise and with it you look like a wannabe iphone user . Its awesome in performance but that identity thing sucks + they recent actions where they discontinue a model even before 6 month span is just plain ridiculous (OP3 to OP3T and then OP3T to OP5 all done within 1 year)..
zelendel said:
Yes. The 6p (minus the battery issues) is good for rom development. It will get support from 3rd parties for at least another 2 years.
I would say the one plus 3 or 3t
The nexus 6p
Any one of the Sony devices as they have a good development setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony is bad in development because their stupid DRM system.
El Solido said:
Sony is bad in development because their stupid DRM system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell that to the fact that they offer how to build aosp for their devices, have worked with developers on it as well as pretty much made the theme engine that susbstratum works off of.
Will there be loses. Sure but that is the difference between aosp and using code made for the device. You don't always get all the features of the device with aosp. But that is not the point of using aosp. It's to learn.
zelendel said:
Tell that to the fact that they offer how to build aosp for their devices, have worked with developers on it as well as pretty much made the theme engine that susbstratum works off of.
Will there be loses. Sure but that is the difference between aosp and using code made for the device. You don't always get all the features of the device with aosp. But that is not the point of using aosp. It's to learn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but with sony aosp you get 13% quality of camera comparing it to stock, so they are stupid.
What a deception... I was hoping Samsung to be more faster on update.
https://www.sammobile.com/2019/05/07/no-android-q-beta-samsung-galaxy-phones-not-yet
Samsung and updates not a good match my friend...if u get a samsung for updates..thats no good.
I got my samsung for the hardware and how beautifull it is. Also with one ui the phone is very snappy as it is. No need for updates as of now
seriously?
I hope no betas are released until Samsung's official one :laugh:
get a pixel!!
Q is no big deal anyway. There isn't a whole lot going on with it other than Google will be able to release security updates via Play Store with their new Project Mainline. It will also give the Pixel kids something to run around and squeal about because we know how they get all puffed up when they can say they got it first. ?
Atleast it's coming this dec.
Tel864 said:
Q is no big deal anyway. There isn't a whole lot going on with it other than Google will be able to release security updates via Play Store with their new Project Mainline. It will also give the Pixel kids something to run around and squeal about because we know how they get all puffed up when they can say they got it first. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's true that Android Q hasn't a lot of new stuff.
No need of it now.
But, there's many manufacturers who participate to the beta. I don't understand why a big player like Samsung isn't on the list.
I wish they will participate soon.
Sent from my Galaxy S10 using XDA Labs
Fredzvw said:
Yeah, it's true that Android Q hasn't a lot of new stuff.
No need of it now.
But, there's many manufacturers who participate to the beta. I don't understand why a big player like Samsung isn't on the list.
I wish they will participate soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been through 2 betas with Samsung and before that I was in 3 or 4 with Motorola. To be honest, Samsung doesn't have a clue on how to run a beta program. When we reported problems in the Samsung Members app, the best we got if anything at all was to submit a report through the app to the developers. As far as I know no one got feedback other than we're looking into it. Everything I reported with the S9 carried over to the Pie final. Motorola had a dedicated forum with moderators that actually passed feedback back and forth. I even spoke with a software engineer two times.
Beta with Samsung is sort of here it is, hope it works. :laugh:
well,i was hoping samsung can update a new full screen gesture like android Q , MIUI 10 , oneplus 6's or maybe just build-in one hand operation in next firmware. and faster fingerprint scanning,it really sucks when you try so hard and it just not unlock the phone
Tel864 said:
Q is no big deal anyway. There isn't a whole lot going on with it other than Google will be able to release security updates via Play Store with their new Project Mainline. It will also give the Pixel kids something to run around and squeal about because we know how they get all puffed up when they can say they got it first. [emoji57]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure I agree here. I'm running it on my Pixel 3 xl and it has many noteworthy features. There is live caption which let's you get real-time transcriptions of what is being said on any video, in any app, across the entire OS. There are systemwide UI changes like dark mode and improved gestural navigation and the back button; over 40 updates to the way security, permissions and privacy agreements are handled. Also, there are improvements to Android's security which will make them come faster thought the Playstore (Project Mainline), better parental controls, new Notification Assistant that will help you reply to incoming chats and other minor stuff. In my opinion, it is by no means a small upgrade, specially when you consider it is still in Beta 3 and will probably add even more features. So far, it runs smooth as butter for me and had great battery life.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL
---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------
If it follows historically anything like previous generations of Samsung phones it should arrive to the S10 family sometime next year in February or March... Just in time for Google's Android R first preview release.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL
Fredzvw said:
What a deception... I was hoping Samsung to be more faster on update.
https://www.sammobile.com/2019/05/07/no-android-q-beta-samsung-galaxy-phones-not-yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? Samsung have no commitment to release a beta firmware to users. People today are too impatient, you need to learn to wait for these things.
Charos87 said:
Why? Samsung have no commitment to release a beta firmware to users. People today are too impatient, you need to learn to wait for these things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
? I'm buying a new high branded product to have one of the best smartphone. I'm here because I want to share my experience and to find informations from others.
What I see is that almost others brands are offering beta firmware to users and faster updates than Samsung. Why do we have to accept this?
I owned some Samsung devices in the past. Finally change my P20 Pro to try S10. But Samsung was not faster than before on updates, maybe slower.
My girlfriend know nothing about cellphone and don't care about updates. But, if you're here man and you don't care about new characteristics, what are you doing here?
Sent from my Galaxy S10 using XDA Labs
Fredzvw said:
? I'm buying a new high branded product to have one of the best smartphone. I'm here because I want to share my experience and to find informations from others.
What I see is that almost others brands are offering beta firmware to users and faster updates than Samsung. Why do we have to accept this?
I owned some Samsung devices in the past. Finally change my P20 Pro to try S10. But Samsung was not faster than before on updates, maybe slower.
My girlfriend know nothing about cellphone and don't care about updates. But, if you're here man and you don't care about new characteristics, what are you doing here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You accept it because that's pretty much the way Samsung has always been and not anyone here is going to change that. When someone buys a Samsung phone, they need to accept that as a condition. I would bet money that the majority of users worldwide care less about updates as long as their phone works reliably.
Fredzvw said:
? I'm buying a new high branded product to have one of the best smartphone. I'm here because I want to share my experience and to find informations from others.
What I see is that almost others brands are offering beta firmware to users and faster updates than Samsung. Why do we have to accept this?
I owned some Samsung devices in the past. Finally change my P20 Pro to try S10. But Samsung was not faster than before on updates, maybe slower.
My girlfriend know nothing about cellphone and don't care about updates. But, if you're here man and you don't care about new characteristics, what are you doing here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other brands may very well offer beta firmware and if what you want is for firmware to come out quickly then I suggest next time you get one of those devices but what I said was be patient, it will eventually come out. You shouldn't be here just to whine about updates not coming out, I've been on XDA for nearly ten years now and it annoys me when people complain about the speed of updates. You should want a complete update without bugs and that takes time, making a post about it won't speed up the release and just clutters up the feed.
Samsung if you see has alot of devices to take care of. They release security patches on monthly bases to phone ranging from 100-max$ they have. Also the one ui which is very heavy skin needs to be fully usable and bug less in new android q. I myself have tried betas and didn't find anything usefull expect bragging in front my friends. Apps run same or maybe 1-2% faster in Q.
With Android betas you can download a new CPU & more RAM to your device so this is why it's so important to get it quickly from the manufacturer.
Intratech said:
With Android betas you can download a new CPU & more RAM to your device so this is why it's so important to get it quickly from the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This made me chuckle [emoji1787]
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
anyone wanting firmware first solution is easy buy a Google pixel
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Ahh the age old xda mass-debate about beta firmware.
Get yer popcorn sweet-cheekses, its gonna be a great
All this mass-debating :laugh:
In all seriousness tho Samsung won't be physically be able to release firmware as quick as Google due to the extra software overlay. Its that simple lol
Samsung has NEVER been known for releasing software early so I'm not sure why anyone would whine about slow updates.
Is look Android 10 UI 2.0 beta is coming soon ?
https://www.sammobile.com/news/which-galaxy-phones-will-get-an-android-10-beta-program/