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Could anyone answer my few questions to help me get a grip whether the idea is feasible?
* How different is Android kernel from standard Linux (ie. Maemo) kernel?
* Is most of the hardware abstraction handled by Linux kernel, or the Dalvik VM internals and library?
* Is the kernel accessible? Ie. can I supplant my own init script and run custom binary in place of Dalvik?
* Is the Android hardware hackable? Ie. can I get direct access to the root partition and put custom content in?
I'm asking because I would like to get a better piece of hardware than N900 (namely HTC EVO 4G) and port Maemo 5 (ie. Mer) on it. But if Android hardware is a closed black box, I won't bother.
I don't have experience with Android (I like Maemo so much better) and I wouldn't like to spent a lot of money on hardware I could not hack.
Some android hardware is more open to changes, such as google's devloper phone.
People have managed to run Debian GNU/Linux on the nexus one, but not all the hardware is functional as of now.
There are some binary only libraries and drivers for some vendors, meaning you might not be able to use all of the hardware.
I do believe it is possible to port the Maemo OS on the nexus one, and I would love to try it if you gain momentum on this.
Unfortunately I do not know Maemo OS enough to be of any assistance apart from telling you that Android use a standard ARM Linux kernel with some modules added to enable the special IPC that Dalvik uses.
As the owner of an N900, I would love to see this project gain momentum. I don't dislike the N900 hardware, it is actually quite decent but I would prefer a smaller, thinner and lighter phone with a capacitive screen.
Maybe MeeGo is the other option to consider since that OS will be designed much more in the open which would possibly make it easier to port to various devices. (Keep an eye on the meego website for the May release, which will be the first release with UX)
Also, my brother owns a Nexus One by my recommendation so porting Maemo to his phone would be great. (Unfortunately I'm not a developer so I would rely on this forum for a guide)
I am considering getting Nexus One. As I understand it supports messing with rootfs without restrictions. (Of course you loose warranty this way.)
Byte_76 said:
Keep an eye on the meego website for the May release, which will be the first release with UX.
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Click to collapse
Starting with MeeGo base is a viable option.
But the upcoming UX release will be a direct port of current Moblin UI. Maemo is a different beast.
And I am against Maemo 6 migration to Qt, so I would like to stick with current Maemo 5.
With Maemo 5 being a fully functional OS I think it makes sense to try to port it directly first, however if that doesn't work then MeeGo might be another option.
After some research I found that nor Qualcomm MSM7200A, nor Samsung S3C6410 chips have open 3D driver available.
Since Maemo 5 UI requires working OpenGL ES acceleration for its desktop and window management, I guess this project is in a dead-end until I find viable platform for experimentation.
Maybe Mer is another option:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=565480
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=626287
http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mer-project-just-bunch-of-redshirts.html
http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
Without Maemo 5 visual effects it's soooooo stone age, that I don't really care for.
Not sure if this is the correct forum to post this. I have searched the web and this forum and only found partial answers so please excuse me if this has been discussed. If so a reply with the link would be very helpful.
With AMD and Intel both producing low powered x86 chips, especially AMDs C-50 which incorporates the Radeon HD graphics processor on the same chip, I was wondering if there are any limitations for hardware manufacturers to use these kind of chips on Tablets running Android.
I know currently Google does not have an x86 port of their own, but are there any particular reasons that would stop them if the chips were comparable in power usage and have faster performance? What would be some drawbacks? Would all the apps run fine on the x86 architecture or would each app need to be recompiled to run on these devices?
I guess what I'm really asking is with your expertise do you see x86 processors as a future of Android tablet computing?
Thanks in advance for all the input.
In theory, they'd just have to re-write the bytecode interpreter on the Dalvik-VM (Assuming it works like Sun's Java VM) Everything you run on your android is on a virtual machine, meaning it has the capability of being cross platform. So yes. It's very possible.
http://www.androidx86.org have you checked this site out??
1st ICS build for virtual machines
Just check out this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=19824180
Given the choice with all other things being equal, I'd take a modern ARM over an X86 chip, unless I'm going to run Windows ware. I've used x86 for like almost 20 out of nearly 23.5 years, and wouldn't trust an X86 Android tablet, now that I've dug into my TF .
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Spidey01 said:
Given the choice with all other things being equal, I'd take a modern ARM over an X86 chip, unless I'm going to run Windows ware. I've used x86 for like almost 20 out of nearly 23.5 years, and wouldn't trust an X86 Android tablet, now that I've dug into my TF .
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldnt trust it for what reason?
Windows 8 will be released with an x86 and ARM version.
The Android OS itself runs very smoothly on x86, I have been using a small hp thinclient t5565 as a debug machine instead of my phone or a virtual machine for 2 weeks now and it performs admirably. Granted I cant play HD games on it, but thats what I have the Enjoy 7 tablet for. android-x86 is just brilliant, in many cases the generic froyo and gingerbread builds breathe new life into old rusty machines, making them very useful once more. The only thing missing, is better generic hardware support for ethernet and various 3D display devices. I am currently looking at an option of using android-x86 as a swop and go solution, since my test machine runs the installed system completely from a USB thumb drive. Which means if it breaks, pull the stick out, pop in another machine and you are back to work. Perfect solution for a POS terminal, library internet access machine or even something to keep the kids out of your hair.
ashmem in Android x86
I developed a simple shared memory IPC in Linux already and I would also like to do it in Android x86.
Does anyone knows on how to do this(shared memory or should I call it "ashmem"?) ?
I really need your help. I'm still a beginner in Android x86, so I hope you can give a step-by-step guide.
Hey there, i hope i`m right in here and you pros can answer me some questions.
We are currently building a new software which will be released soon, i won`t go into details in here, because we not ready to release some infos about it yet. Anyway, thats not the problem....
Here is my question: Our Software could expand to TVs and now we are searching on how to get our solution onto TV Screens. We cam across all those Android based TV Boxes, we ordered some and tested them, unfortunatly they didn`t offer everything we needed.
Sooo, is it possible to release a custom Android Installation on such a Box?
What if we get the blank hardware boxes, can we get an Android Installation up and running? (With the paid help of some XDA-Developers..)
We would really need a stripped down Version only with our APP and some other stuff running.
Also another question, if it is possible to release a custom box, is it legal to Google`s Terms?
We are brand new in this field, so please be so kind and help us out. If it is possible and we can implement this thing we are definitly will be going over xda-developers, because we just don`t have any clue about Android Systems.
Are you meaning something like this?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/244278/meet_cotton_candy_the_dualcore_android_usb_device.html
We all know that Android is flexible enough to be put on phones, tablets, laptops, and TVs. FXI, a technology lab based in Norway, decided to add USB drives to Android’s host of platforms.
FXI’s Cotton Candy USB device might look like any other flash drive, but it packs smartphone parts like a dual-core 1.2GHz Samsung Exynos processor and its own ARM GPU for 1080p video playback. It also has lots of connectivity, including Wi-Fi, HDMI, Bluetooth, and a MicroSD card slot to expand its 1GB of storage.
This Raspberry Pi-eqsue miniature PC comes with Android 2.3 (also known as Gingerbread). When you plug it into a PC or Mac, it automatically bring up a separate pop up for the Gingerbread OS. This functionality could be used to bring Android apps or games to any computer. Alternatively, if your HDTV has HDMI ports, you could potentially turn it into a smart, Internet-connected monitor.
Angry Birds might be a little hard to play on your TV. [Photo: FXI]
The only down side of the device is that it is not supported by Google, so you won’t be browsing the marketplace anytime soon. Instead, FXI is working to get a third-party app store together. For now, though, you'll have to side-load any apps you want to run on it.
FXI is in talks with other companies to bring Cotton Candy to market by the second half of 2012 and predict that the device will cost "well under $200" according to The Verge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MoPhoACTV Initiative
Yes, thats also this kind of thing we might need. But currently we are more looking into these kind of Boxes: cect-shop.com/Android-TV-Box_c55_x1.htm
And we would need a custom Android installation on one of these boxes? As asked above, is this possible and legal?
Why android?
i don't know the exact details about, but I think getting regular linux to run on a set op box is easier and cheaper to customize with exactly the software you want it.
It doesn`t have to be Android. Andorid was just a possible solution we found and the other reason is that i`m capable of programming apps for Android so it was the closest possibility.
You say Linux...hmm... also a possible solution.
Lets tell you at least some details. The Box should run only with our application, and should be able to be connected to a TV where the application is started then and does their thing. It`s a specialized kind of Software Application for targeted companys.
What it should be able to do:
At least an output resolution of 1280 * 720
Connectable with HDMI, DVI etc. to Televisions
As you say Linux, are you capable of doing such a thing? We might need you...
Or do you have some resources where we can find some developer who can achieve this?
surekin said:
It doesn`t have to be Android. Andorid was just a possible solution we found and the other reason is that i`m capable of programming apps for Android so it was the closest possibility.
You say Linux...hmm... also a possible solution.
Lets tell you at least some details. The Box should run only with our application, and should be able to be connected to a TV where the application is started then and does their thing. It`s a specialized kind of Software Application for targeted companys.
What it should be able to do:
At least an output resolution of 1280 * 720
Connectable with HDMI, DVI etc. to Televisions
As you say Linux, are you capable of doing such a thing? We might need you...
Or do you have some resources where we can find some developer who can achieve this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think any experienced linux dev is capable of doing such a thing, not that difficult. Get a good supported distro, remove all the bells and whistles and let it just boot to your application. I think that is the most elegant solution. Android is much more difficult to customize in such a way. I might have the technical skills to pull it off, but I'm not interested, sorry.
It all depends on your needs and resources. Try googling for embedded linux. linuxfordevices.com is a good place to start i think.
Why the choice for a setopbox and not a regular application? In call centers and other businesses normal programs are used to display information on a large screen, while running on a regular OS. The cost of having to develop and deliver support on not only the software, but also on the setopbox and its embedded OS is quite large. You have to take that into account. Given that you post this question on this forum, I suspect that your resources are rather limited. If I were you, I would reconsider the choice for a setop box.
First, thx for your time...and second, i understand what you mean in your post, but our software already runs on Mac OS, Windows and iOs, so we already have an application running. The settopbox would just be an addition, because some of our customers might need such a thing. Thats the reason why i`m doggling around searching for some ideas.
Our resources are limited sure, but not too limited, the reason why i posted here, is because i`m searching for answers here too, and xda is always a good place to ask in my opinion. We are going other ways too, let me make that clear!
So, i understand what you meant by Linux, i am now contacting some Linux devs who might want to achieve this.
Thx!
Ok, So the big news is MWC(mobile world congress)Shanghai 2016 is going live after 2 weeks from now, '29 June-1 July' in Shanghai,China..
What do you really want to hear from Jide at the event, about RemixOs? Something big...??
Guess what,there'll be.
ROOT.....
Proprietary NVIDIA driver support.
or29544 said:
Proprietary NVIDIA driver support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, something related to better hardware support (Cpu, gpu, sound, etc), speed optimization (maybe remix based on marshmallow), interface polishing, better mouse touch simulation, Ubuntu style installer support native Linux disk partitions and others, more languages (spanish!), etc.
Marshmallow.
However, we want Android N!
I had to say this, for the laughs, although it is true.
Marshmallow.
However, we want Android N!
I had to say this, for the laughs, although it is true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We'll have Android N - I am personally waiting for official Google support for desktops.
We will also have Android apps in Chrome OS - again, a great desktop operating system.
So at this point Remix OS is really heading towards redundancy but anyway - I would still like to switch my desktop to Android sooner
Definately legacy hardware support/compatability. While it's nice to see our newer machines fly, it would be nice to get some of our old working hardware running relatively well without the usual hour glass watching we get in standard desktop os's.
For all the developers on this board, what if you had...
a higher powered Mini
AOSP, let's say Marshmallow or better
all the dev tools you'd need to get to work
...what would you, could you dream to develop this computer to do?
TV box? Gaming console? Android PC? Smart home device?
Please share with us your brainstorm ideas on this. Have fun with it and don't think about what's already out on the market... think out of the box, reach for the stars, and all the other cliches you can think of. Please share in the comments below.
Thanks!
A combination of all the above!
Smart nuclear powered anti-starship laser guns.
Just kidding, possibly a wireless router or a media server.
well I like something like win 7 ultimate. with a htpc media center,good gaming and nice professional os with good look.
not the current flat look but something more 3d like seven was.
but I am sure you prefer a idea for your Android stuff...
so what about jide making intel cherry trail devices? those could be nice for TV box or computer? or good snapdragon with long term support?
tailslol said:
well I like something like win 7 ultimate. with a htpc media center,good gaming and nice professional os with good look.
not the current flat look but something more 3d like seven was.
but I am sure you prefer a idea for your Android stuff...
so what about jide making intel cherry trail devices? those could be nice for TV box or computer? or good snapdragon with long term support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or MediaTek, but force them to give you updated kernel sources and release them to the public.
Just saying because MTK chips last longer, and perform better (except for GPU performance) than counterpart Snapdragon chips.
moriel5 said:
Or MediaTek, but force them to give you updated kernel sources and release them to the public.
Just saying because MTK chips last longer, and perform better (except for GPU performance) than counterpart Snapdragon chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not mediatek they hide their resources sometime. and absolutely not Allwinner their chip are ****s... Rockchip or amilogic S is OK in the worse case scenario...
NVIDIA tegra are pricey but good for all in ones.especialy with Google support behind.
Or you can cheat on the support by using same Chips as Android one phones, nexus. or pixel..so no source hiding.
tailslol said:
not mediatek they hide their resources sometime. and absolutely not Allwinner their chip are ****s... Rockchip or amilogic S is OK in the worse case scenario...
NVIDIA tegra are pricey but good for all in ones.especialy with Google support behind.
Or you can cheat on the support by using same Chips as Android one phones, nexus. or pixel..so no source hiding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you not see what I had witten about forcing MediaTek to release their kernel sources?
Rockchip also hides many of their kernel sources, and are a pain to work with, (I had to use an ancient computer from over a decade ago, and had to install Windows XP, since it wouldn't work with anything newer).
Allwinner are a solid choice, since they are much more open with their sources, and are much easier to work with, it's just that not many developers work with them, but those that do, testify to them being much easier to work with.
About Amlogic, I have no idea.
Nvidia, are really good, but are even worse than MediaTek and Rockchip at releasing kernel sources, so unless it's the same chipset as the Nexus 9, it needs to be out of the question.
But please no BIG.little processors, they are great on paper, however in the real world, while they deliver, they don't deliver even close to what they should, ending up being a waste of money, since the worth:cost ratio is much farther.
moriel5 said:
Did you not see what I had witten about forcing MediaTek to release their kernel sources?
Rockchip also hides many of their kernel sources, and are a pain to work with, (I had to use an ancient computer from over a decade ago, and had to install Windows XP, since it wouldn't work with anything newer).
Allwinner are a solid choice, since they are much more open with their sources, and are much easier to work with, it's just that not many developers work with them, but those that do, testify to them being much easier to work with.
About Amlogic, I have no idea.
Nvidia, are really good, but are even worse than MediaTek and Rockchip at releasing kernel sources, so unless it's the same chipset as the Nexus 9, it needs to be out of the question.
But please no BIG.little processors, they are great on paper, however in the real world, while they deliver, they don't deliver even close to what they should, ending up being a waste of money, since the worth:cost ratio is much farther.
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Click to collapse
the thing about big little... nowadays with the failure of TV boxes and the slow death of tablets most big company are targeting the phone market.
and big little is mostly for phones ...
but I think the only problem is not targeting the lower end or not using too old than 2 years chips and sometime it is just better to spend a lil more for higher support and better performances.
on Nvidia side almost all chips have been open sourced by Google long time ago.
the tegra x1 in pixel c the tegra 2 3 4 and k1 in nexus tablets... so yea....
tailslol said:
the thing about big little... nowadays with the failure of TV boxes and the slow death of tablets most big company are targeting the phone market.
and big little is mostly for phones ...
but I think the only problem is not targeting the lower end or not using too old than 2 years chips and sometime it is just better to spend a lil more for higher support and better performances.
on Nvidia side almost all chips have been open sourced by Google long time ago.
the tegra x1 in pixel c the tegra 2 3 4 and k1 in nexus tablets... so yea....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah sorry, I had checked it.
And it looks like they have their own code repository now, so things have definitely changed.
RemixOS_Jason said:
For all the developers on this board, what if you had...
a higher powered Mini
AOSP, let's say Marshmallow or better
all the dev tools you'd need to get to work
...what would you, could you dream to develop this computer to do?
TV box? Gaming console? Android PC? Smart home device?
Please share with us your brainstorm ideas on this. Have fun with it and don't think about what's already out on the market... think out of the box, reach for the stars, and all the other cliches you can think of. Please share in the comments below.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would build my own version of Android!
Dual boot as much as possible!
Publish my Project ROC quicker
What about using the mini along with wireless display, and use them as a home security/automation hub? Allowing many apps and already existing "connected" devices like Philips HUE, WiFi Cameras, etc to connect and be configured for automation. Then assigning older android devices to pair and be set in various rooms, to be used as wifi motion detectors.
Well as a developer, I'd improve the way I interact with my devices as an user.
Chromecast and Android Home devices are great but they're not how the future should actually look. In my opinion Google is limiting hardware on those devices to keep prices low and make them impossible to run upcoming software, more powerful software.
Okay let's say we have an AIO device (similar to Android Home) but with a few sets of functionality baked in:
- Network attached Storage: Store all the things you want to share with the family (photos, music, movies...)
- Network attached Storage: Stream whatever is hosted in the box to the "cast enabled devices around the device"
- Network attached Storage: Synced folders between family devices per user request (similar to how resilio sync works)
- Network attached Storage: Remote access for downloads (you're out of home but you start a download that will be waiting for you when you arrive)
- Assistant: Always On Keyword detection
- Assistant: Customized context-aware commands per user inside the network (If John or his devices are not connected to the Wireless network or discoverable through BLE don't suggest content that he might like)
- Assistant: TV as a remote interface of the device with a dashboard, the device microphone as a IO device of the TV.
- Assistant: Device state awareness, notify when battery is low on x device.
BRAINSTORM -- What if Jide actually focused on getting the projects they currently have out working to perfection instead of coming out with new semi broken products?! Then, when everything worked as best as possible, Jide could come out with new stuff that makes the current goodness even better!!!! Wow, what a novel concept!
If i had it, (and if i can), I'll bring the android code and libs to windows,, it's just like WINE on Ubuntu, and isn't like the ancient emulator which is kill my usage
So,, yes... I'll open the play store just when i click it in my windows PC's, installing apk just in Program Files (Android) folder, using linux or android command in cmd (like bash actually) and getting a root access with just allow the UAC