Hi gurus,
Since around a month, I have experienced some issues with my HD2. Seems like it thinks I'm in a drive mode (car kit mode), going in Landscape Mode and auto-launching NaviPanel, even though I do not even intend to do it .
Besides that, sometimes (God knows when!), it doesn't go in the sleep mode, in this way my battery draining very quick.
I have to mention, that I've tried lot of things: changed the stock with cooked ROM (now, I'm running the Energy ROM, quite pleased with it), I have deactivated the option for "Auto launch NaviPanel in car kit mode", modified the specific registry value, all the efforts being useless...
Now, I'm trying to figure out if you have experienced the same abnormal behavior, if there is a HW problem (I don't remember to fall it down somewhere) or could be something SW which could be somehow repaired ?
Any suggestion will be highly appreciated!
Thanks beforehand!
faulty / dirty usb port. look for the thread "stuck in car kit mode", think its in regular section,
try give it a clean with a dry toothbrush. if not then its a warranty issue.
samsamuel said:
faulty / dirty usb port. look for the thread "stuck in car kit mode", think its in regular section,
try give it a clean with a dry toothbrush. if not then its a warranty issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great! Now, need to go to warranty...
However, 10x a bunch for hint!
had mine doin that recent too, think it was my little one eating it though lol could see the green leckie fungus growing on the usb port, still sent it off to get checked though in case of a mis-leading warranty issue, but no such joy
Funny though when the phone was working i was getting a lot of weather/ 'my location' failure to update and when it came back still broken it worked fine almost every where i went.... strange eh!
JR
Quite old thread I know.
Wife got the exact same problem this afternoon - I serached high and low and ended up at following link:
http://www.fixya.com/support/t7298156-htc_hd2_just
After removing battery (just in case) Wife began brushing the usb entry gentle for a couple of minutes and then gave it a gentle blow job.
After some brushing and blowing for a few minutes with no WD40 nor water but a dry cleaning she booted the HD2 and everything were back to normal.
There must have been som dirt or what not that made the HD2 belive there was a car kit attached - anyway dry clean USB port and you are all set.
Kindly
Kwas
Sometime ago after purchasing a new W100 (THL),
I started having the "can't connect to the camera" message.
It has been debated widely over the different forums, and was always associated to ROM, software, permissions issues and such.
First, I'd like to say that this phone is fantastic value for money.
The other day, after trying numerous roms, and permission fixes, and with no luck,
I was playing with the charger cable (while connected), while the camera app was working.
I noticed that fidgeting around with the cable had influence on the app, freezing it at times, making the camera input flicker etc.
I knew right then, this was a connector issue, hardware, rather then something else.
I immediately decided to abandon the "warranty" procedure and take it apart to find the problem.
There is a little rectangular sponge which was right above the connector, but apparently was not pressing it enough,
so I attached 3-4 little squares of thin cardboard (really thin), in the same size of the sponge.
Re-assembled the phone, and voila!, works like a charm ever since!
I will post some photos later, if someone wishes, but the phone has been working for some time now, with no problems what so ever.
So that's it,
the mysterious "can't connect" issue, SOLVED,
at least for me, and to another phone I had ordered which had the same problem (also THL w100).
Gideon.
cool!
I had a similar problem with my thl w200. I google and tried numerous ways to solve the problem.
But none work. I experienced the same thing like you when I put on the charging cable.
I believe we had similar problem... It would be nice if you can post some pics on how to fix the connector.
Thanks a lot.
I also have the same problme. with my thl w200.
Today i install the app cameraMX and after reboot the camera back to work.
I also glad if you uploud some photo
Added photos of repair
here are the pics as promised...
hope this is helpful:
first, the connector:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
now, both the little thin cardboard pieces and
the sponge which should be pressing enough on the connector:
pieces applied with a little snippet of clear duct tape:
the outcome - u can see the shape of the plastic where the flesh is, bent a little upwards as a result:
Hi Gideon,
Brilliant. Thanks for the pics.
How did you figure that its loose connector?
if I open up my phone, I would guess it's some motherboard issue.
Thanks a lot. I am looking forward to fixing my camera
capcorn88 said:
Hi Gideon,
Brilliant. Thanks for the pics.
How did you figure that its loose connector?
if I open up my phone, I would guess it's some motherboard issue.
Thanks a lot. I am looking forward to fixing my camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Well, the first time I took it apart, I just took the connector out, and firmly in again,
but that didn't "fly" fully, still did problems related to touch/pressure (on the area), so I just decided to thicken that place a bit.
Just be careful with the entire procedure, it's not difficult (far from it), but still,
would be a shame to fook something else
Hello, I'm Italian, sorry for my English is not good.
I have thl w100 and I have the same problem of the camera. My rom is 130912.
I change rom (also cusotm rom), wipe & reset.... nothing I still have the problem.
I tried your solution with the paper under the frame but nothing: "can't connect to the camera"
I have observed the operation of the camera and I have an idea
I have observed that works depending on the battery
I recharged the phone twice using a power bank and the camera is back to work for several days.
Then the last charge came only 99% and returned error.
The error disappears if you restart the phone and the screen does not open before 5/10 minutes.
Then once you open the camera and it works.
Has anyone observed the same things?
Paolorata said:
Hello, I'm Italian, sorry for my English is not good.
I have thl w100 and I have the same problem of the camera. My rom is 130912.
I change rom (also cusotm rom), wipe & reset.... nothing I still have the problem.
I tried your solution with the paper under the frame but nothing: "can't connect to the camera"
I have observed the operation of the camera and I have an idea
I have observed that works depending on the battery
I recharged the phone twice using a power bank and the camera is back to work for several days.
Then the last charge came only 99% and returned error.
The error disappears if you restart the phone and the screen does not open before 5/10 minutes.
Then once you open the camera and it works.
Has anyone observed the same things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Paolorata,
Your English is all right. I understand what you wrote.
I don't think it has anything to do with the battery.
My camera did work even when it is not fully charged.
Maybe when you charge your battery, your charging cable tweak the connector and the camera works.
I thought I shared my experience in fixing my THL W200.
In the first picture, I removed all the screws and start plying open the casing.
It's tough to ply open the casing. A combination of flat head screw driver and finger nail.
The plastic edges were damaged in the process by the screw driver.
In the second picture, you will see my camera connector.
In the third picture, I cut a small slab from those 3M stick-on-wall sticker and paste it on my casing.
It's quite thick. I mount my casing back. I tested the camera with the casing half mounted.
I wanted to make sure it worked before I mount the casing fully back.
The removing of the casing was quite troublesome.
You also see the power and volume button in the picture.
My observation so far.
The casing is slightly arched like what Gideon has mentioned. The camera works without failure.
But when I put back my sim card, my camera works on and off. Most of the time it works.
I believe it's because the contact point of the sim card is on the motherboard while the end of sim card is on the plastic casing.
This possibly creates a small gap between my sticker and the camera connector.
Possible solution.
Cut my sim card or cut the plastic casing.
Thanks for answers.
I tried to move the usb connection: the first time it work , the second is not.
The only method by which I can run the camera:
1) restart the phone,
2) wait at least 10 minutes without touching it
3) then open the camera.
9 times out of 10 it works.It is also confirmed by some androidiani.it users.
can you try it and let me know?
Paolorata said:
Thanks for answers.
I tried to move the usb connection: the first time it work , the second is not.
The only method by which I can run the camera:
1) restart the phone,
2) wait at least 10 minutes without touching it
3) then open the camera.
9 times out of 10 it works.It is also confirmed by some androidiani.it users.
can you try it and let me know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If by playing around with the USB connection it works, then I would presume you have the same problem as me...,
and the connector is is troublesome.
Guigui96 said:
Sometime ago after purchasing a new W100 (THL),
I started having the "can't connect to the camera" message.
It has been debated widely over the different forums, and was always associated to ROM, software, permissions issues and such.
First, I'd like to say that this phone is fantastic value for money.
The other day, after trying numerous roms, and permission fixes, and with no luck,
I was playing with the charger cable (while connected), while the camera app was working.
I noticed that fidgeting around with the cable had influence on the app, freezing it at times, making the camera input flicker etc.
I knew right then, this was a connector issue, hardware, rather then something else.
I immediately decided to abandon the "warranty" procedure and take it apart to find the problem.
There is a little rectangular sponge which was right above the connector, but apparently was not pressing it enough,
so I attached 3-4 little squares of thin cardboard (really thin), in the same size of the sponge.
Re-assembled the phone, and voila!, works like a charm ever since!
I will post some photos later, if someone wishes, but the phone has been working for some time now, with no problems what so ever.
So that's it,
the mysterious "can't connect" issue, SOLVED,
at least for me, and to another phone I had ordered which had the same problem (also THL w100).
Gideon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Gideon,
I have a crappy connector on the camera, I tried to push it down but doesn't work reliably.
kinetix118 said:
Thanks Gideon,
I have a crappy connector on the camera, I tried to push it down but doesn't work reliably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey
did u just try to push it down and reassemble again?
or did u put something extra there like i did?
cause at first i just tried to take it out and push back in, but wasn't working good still...
it was only after i put some extra thickness between the connector and back cover was it working 100%.
Tank you so much, for fix the camera for my w100. I folow this steps and fix my phone
Guigui96 said:
Sometime ago after purchasing a new W100 (THL),
I started having the "can't connect to the camera" message.
It has been debated widely over the different forums, and was always associated to ROM, software, permissions issues and such.
First, I'd like to say that this phone is fantastic value for money.
The other day, after trying numerous roms, and permission fixes, and with no luck,
I was playing with the charger cable (while connected), while the camera app was working.
I noticed that fidgeting around with the cable had influence on the app, freezing it at times, making the camera input flicker etc.
I knew right then, this was a connector issue, hardware, rather then something else.
I immediately decided to abandon the "warranty" procedure and take it apart to find the problem.
There is a little rectangular sponge which was right above the connector, but apparently was not pressing it enough,
so I attached 3-4 little squares of thin cardboard (really thin), in the same size of the sponge.
Re-assembled the phone, and voila!, works like a charm ever since!
I will post some photos later, if someone wishes, but the phone has been working for some time now, with no problems what so ever.
So that's it,
the mysterious "can't connect" issue, SOLVED,
at least for me, and to another phone I had ordered which had the same problem (also THL w100).
Gideon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tanks so much, for fix the camera for my w100. I folow this steps and fix my phone, it´s very easy and works.
---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------
Guigui96 said:
Sometime ago after purchasing a new W100 (THL),
I started having the "can't connect to the camera" message.
It has been debated widely over the different forums, and was always associated to ROM, software, permissions issues and such.
First, I'd like to say that this phone is fantastic value for money.
The other day, after trying numerous roms, and permission fixes, and with no luck,
I was playing with the charger cable (while connected), while the camera app was working.
I noticed that fidgeting around with the cable had influence on the app, freezing it at times, making the camera input flicker etc.
I knew right then, this was a connector issue, hardware, rather then something else.
I immediately decided to abandon the "warranty" procedure and take it apart to find the problem.
There is a little rectangular sponge which was right above the connector, but apparently was not pressing it enough,
so I attached 3-4 little squares of thin cardboard (really thin), in the same size of the sponge.
Re-assembled the phone, and voila!, works like a charm ever since!
I will post some photos later, if someone wishes, but the phone has been working for some time now, with no problems what so ever.
So that's it,
the mysterious "can't connect" issue, SOLVED,
at least for me, and to another phone I had ordered which had the same problem (also THL w100).
Gideon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guigui96 said:
If by playing around with the USB connection it works, then I would presume you have the same problem as me...,
and the connector is is troublesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same model and folow the steps of Guideon, but i don´t use paper i used tape doble face and work perfetly the camera.
It works
Thank you, very useful and helpful! I thought it is a driver software problem since i was running different rom, but it's not.
Thank you! I have a device which one person took me to repair, i tried restore it to official rom then i was looking for a custom rom.. nothing.
I'll try this cause i think it could be the same reason. I'll try soon.
I made a video of how to fix the camera thl w200, w100 serves to thl, w200 and w300. I think also w8.
Good job ... Guigui96, :good:
Hello, I'm Portuguese, sorry for my english.
I have a THL W100 with s/n CFYSGM4W, and had the same problem with the camera ... "can not connect to the camera".
I already had done many experiments, but no results.
I made many donwload on the Net, and I install many rom's on my phone, but no one put the camara worked.
I installed this version "ThL.W100.130912.JBV2.QHD.EN.COM.V01.8P32_V01_MT65892", and with your precious help...
VOULA....
Everything works, the camera to.
Thank you for sharing with us.
Barony said:
Good job ... Guigui96, :good:
Hello, I'm Portuguese, sorry for my english.
I have a THL W100 with s/n CFYSGM4W, and had the same problem with the camera ... "can not connect to the camera".
I already had done many experiments, but no results.
I made many donwload on the Net, and I install many rom's on my phone, but no one put the camara worked.
I installed this version "ThL.W100.130912.JBV2.QHD.EN.COM.V01.8P32_V01_MT65892", and with your precious help...
VOULA....
Everything works, the camera to.
Thank you for sharing with us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same sn but my fw version is ThL.W100.130912.JBV2.QHD.EN.COM.V01.8P32_V01_MT6589... I have not "2" at the end. Is your version an update? where do i find it? can you give me the link? thanks
after taking the module apart and putting it back the phone stuck not booting up with a message "insert a supported module to turn on your phone".
The issue I believe is not related to the module itself, since the same story with camera module.
The phone could have been exposed to the high humidity the day before. Before taking it apart the phone used to make occasional sound notification like it has been plugged in to charge.
Tried to clean data pins, disassemble it but no success.
I am having the same exact problem and I was wondering if you ever figured out how to fix it?
yobritt said:
I am having the same exact problem and I was wondering if you ever figured out how to fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, LG has told me to send the device for a service.
I'm on a trip and quite far from any cell phone store but I would appreciate on updates with your phone as well.
upd. I have a suspicion on two metal pins going from the module. if that's the module detector pins, then they might not be connected properly. blocking them w a tape on a working phone could shed some light on this theory.
My Experience
Thought I was the only one with this problem! My phone suddenly started constantly flashing the "USB" symbol with the "Insert Cable to Charge Phone" message and associated beep, which forced me to turn off the master volume...so I couldn't hear the phone ring!. The "Insert Supported Module" happened a few times at the beginning when I first pulled out and re-inserted the module/battery, but then mysteriously stopped. I went to an AT&T store and swapped the module with their display phone, and it seemed to stop (at least for the 5+ min I tried it), so I've been trying to find a replacement bottom module (I believe it's called the "Charging Module" or "Loudspeaker"), but to no avail. I tried purchasing one (SSTParts dot com look for "LG G5 Loudspeaker"), but that came without the electronic board, so I also picked up Ebay #282082091333) to go with it...but lo and behold, when I put them together and tried it, the phone gives me the "Insert Supported Module" message and won't boot. I then tried the old circuit board with the new housing, and it did boot up...but the flashing USB came back, at least for a few minutes. So I'm waiting to see if the problem comes back full blast. So we now know that the phone will only take an OEM part, at least regarding the electronics. Called LG to see if I could buy one, but they said I had to send it in for repairs...which I don't want to do (you know how it is with intermittent problems...). One thing I was able to do was to turn off the "Notification" volume (there are four Volume controls in the "Sound" settings; this is the 3rd one down) and it seems that this quieted the problem...so it keeps happening, but it's not causing me any functional concerns...though I worry that one day it might. I've looked at Ebay #401119970468, but though it looks identical, the listing says it's for an H850, and mine's the H820...so is it worth the risk? Any other updates or ideas out there? I'm thinking of going to the AT&T store and swapping out the display model's module when no one's looking...
I sent my phone for service. Hopefully I'll have the news soon.
Okay, so they they returned the phone back to the store saying "the damage is too expensive" and it's beyond the warranty. I'm pretty mad, will go to pick it up and see wtf is going on.
Won't turn back on..
ArtDesire said:
after taking the module apart and putting it back the phone stuck not booting up with a message "insert a supported module to turn on your phone".
The issue I believe is not related to the module itself, since the same story with camera module.
The phone could have been exposed to the high humidity the day before. Before taking it apart the phone used to make occasional sound notification like it has been plugged in to charge.
Tried to clean data pins, disassemble it but no success.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happened to me about 5 minutes ago. Try blowing some air on the module.. trust me it will work.
Also if no airdryer is handy, take out the module let it sit out overnight and reconnect few hours later.it works. It gives time to dry out. This is a major flaw.mother****ers; They owe us the G6
Air it out it'll come back at around half an hour,expect it to also have low battery power.
airing it out didnt work for me.
the only thing that worked for me was to replace the bottom part, ie. the charging module. I got one from ebay and it worked like a charm. My g5 is almost back in its new condition.
on ebay, search for Genuine Charging Module Bottom Chin
Fixed
My wife's phone had this same problem. I think it mostly dirty contacts that cause this problem. I used contact cleaner, let dry assembled and it worked great. These companies have you over a barrel when you send it in.
this issue is with the dumb bottom power module I have same issue but I am lucky that I had bought the LG Camera module that has this module built in, so I had a backup so to speak (other than I can't use my case at the moment) and Sprint no longer has the module, so I will be ordering these http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/282313529509?chn=ps&dispItem=1 (They look new and having a pack of 3 of these should be worth it.) hopefully this works for others too.
Thanks.
I have a doubt
I have in my hands 2 g5 phones
one from sprint and one from cellcom?fixme?
however I CAN NOT exchange this module among phones. If I do so, I receive the error which prevents booting.
But every module works fine on its phone
I talked to a friend who received a lot of these phones for sale
all from sprint, and he say he could not exchange this part in the phones and instead he had to mark every part to its phone to prevent accidental swapping.
I told to him it should be impossible to be this way, and came to this forum/thread to satisfy my ignorance.
any comments?
yurais said:
I have a doubt
I have in my hands 2 g5 phones
one from sprint and one from cellcom?fixme?
however I CAN NOT exchange this module among phones. If I do so, I receive the error which prevents booting.
But every module works fine on its phone
I talked to a friend who received a lot of these phones for sale
all from sprint, and he say he could not exchange this part in the phones and instead he had to mark every part to its phone to prevent accidental swapping.
I told to him it should be impossible to be this way, and came to this forum/thread to satisfy my ignorance.
any comments?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Verizon and sprint g5 and its the same between the two modules which irritates me too cause I figured extra parts
ArtDesire said:
Okay, so they they returned the phone back to the store saying "the damage is too expensive" and it's beyond the warranty. I'm pretty mad, will go to pick it up and see wtf is going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is far far too late, I know. But those brass (I assume, as they are contacts which would need to be fairly durable) connectors you mentioned covering are 100 % the problem. I lightly, and I do mean very lightly, wet the pad of my fingertip and wet each of those connectors for the hope of conductivity. It worked like a charm. After around 100x of the module error, blowing with a blow dryer and trying to clean off the inner contacts blindly, it finally worked. I've had to do this on a few occasions now and it always works.
Hope this helps someone out,
regurak
I found the solution, you dont have to buy another one, it's just maintenance.
I tried doing some maintenance to all metal contacts I found and it's fixed right away, I assume this would apply to most if not all cases, some contact points are in the upper phone body, so no wonder why someone would get the error with any modules he/she tried. Let me know if it works for you but I think it will, you dont need to buy another part/phone.
Don't forget to hit the THANKS button.
SamaelThuum said:
I tried doing some maintenance to all metal contacts I found and it's fixed right away, I assume this would apply to most if not all cases, some contact points are in the upper phone body, so no wonder why someone would get the error with any modules he/she tried. Let me know if it works for you but I think it will, you dont need to buy another part/phone.
Don't forget to hit the THANKS button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok it's been a week or two after I dissassembled the charging piece and posted those pictures and all that and IT JUST HAPPENED AGAIN LAST NIGHT. I noticed it happened because my battery was totally dead and I tried to start charging from my computer's USB 3.0, I remember it also started like this the first time, SO, I guess it's a software thing, not hardware. As soon as you plug it to the computer it will start taking energy, so, you know that even if you unplug the phone from anything, it will still show the error message supported module blabla. As soon as this happens to you, UNPLUG THE PHONE so it doesnt take charge, so, if it keeps showing the error message by itself and hopefully the battery would be so low that it wont show it for more than a minute before it shuts off due to battery. (I know you would say, well, just hard cycle the phone by taking the battery out and in again and try to turn it on or to plug to normal charger, I tried this but it would still show the error, even after I tried draining phone by holding power button without battery for like 1 min, only way that seemed to "reset" it was if batt COMPLETELY died, there's a point where if u try to turn on it only says like "battery too low to turn on"), SO, after battery COMPLETELY died, I plugged it to A NORMAL CHARGER and it worked it time.
SO, if battery is dead, I wont try to charge by PC USB for now
Just happened to my phone out of nowhere.
I kept getting the usb connection options message on my phone, then it just kept buzzing for no reason. So I went to restart the phone and now I'm getting the Insert Supported Module error.
I already know AT&T and our phone insurance will be completely useless. Damn phone isn't even paid off. The LG G5 was the BIGGEST waste of money ever. I hate this stupid phone.
JC Pro1000S Phone NAND IC Programmer
latest JC Pro 1000S programmer which it can match most of the testing module, recently i found a new web for phone repair tools supplying, it is a nice team, and i have ordered a data test module with jc pro 1000s for my phone repair shop, honestly it is a nice experiences, it can save time and solve the motherboard fault fast.
And recently ,i found there exist products in amazon, i want to try, is there someone can provide some advise for me ?
I spilled coffee on my phone and it started sating "insert a supported module to turn on your phone" I put it in a bag of rice over night and it is still displaying the same message. I have no idea what to do. Im worried that all the pictures/videos I have on the phone is lost as well. has anyone that was able to get their phone working again lost all pictures or videos?
So unexplainably my g5 started showing me this. Also plugging into charger does nothing. Don't know if factory reset would fix or if this is a hardware issue. I've been looking online but none of the genuine replacements confirm fitting this variant. Anyone have some insight to these matters?
Also that screenshot is without being plugged in. That message doesn't disappear.
That's very odd. If it doesn't actually harm anything I would just let it be. A new bottom chin is gonna cost you, but it's worth is up to you.
Btw, what font/theme are you running? It looks gorgeous
goast said:
So unexplainably my g5 started showing me this. Also plugging into charger does nothing. Don't know if factory reset would fix or if this is a hardware issue. I've been looking online but none of the genuine replacements confirm fitting this variant. Anyone have some insight to these matters?
Also that screenshot is without being plugged in. That message doesn't disappear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine did this and it drove me crazy it would act as if I was plugging and unplugging constantly..
I disassembled it cleaned it all kinds of stuff....
It seemed like the hotter the device got the worse it was
I had this exact same issue on my H850 sometime back, did you by any chance get the phone wet? Changing the bottom chin had no effect in my case, it had to be sent in for repairs and when i got it back the entire phone except the screen was replaced. If you have warranty I suggest you send the phone in and they'll likely replace all required parts.
Did some digging and it turns out that the charging port of charger and phone get dirty and when they do u have to clean them. I used rubbing alcohol. Dipped unplugged charger male end. And disconnected the bottom chin. They *ucked for like 2 minutes. Blew it out with a can of air and boom problem solved
goast said:
Did some digging and it turns out that the charging port of charger and phone get dirty and when they do u have to clean them. I used rubbing alcohol. Dipped unplugged charger male end. And disconnected the bottom chin. They *ucked for like 2 minutes. Blew it out with a can of air and boom problem solved
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I did mine and it never solved it mine was full of crap I did get fast charge to work after cleaning but issue still persisted