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I'm Just wondering since we have 2.2 now, do you think that we enjoy using our phones more because we have 2.2/2.3 or do you think its was overhyped because of the frequent updates of other companies? Personally I believe I enjoy my x10 more since the mods came out and i like the fact that there are more apps available to me and I think its nice to have the Gallery app as a default. Also the JIT compiler is nice to improve the speed of the device but maybe we overhyped the benefit of 2.2.
What do you guys think?
not really... bugged DT, no 16m collors, no official froyo with everything working, 30FPS limit.... it's my fault i bought this phone because of it's good looks before i read about it...
2.2 is definitely an upgrade, spending 10 months on a phone that can't browse properly after my 2 year old n95 had Flash was very frustrating, although I have it installed I still think dueltouch is a nice feature but very overrated, don't care much for 16m colours but in retrospect the X10 wil be my last SE phone for the simple reason that they didn't keep there promises.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
to be fair though we got dual touch and flash support now, x10 currently quite laggy in custom froyo, not sure whether it's hardware related or tweaking. it's not comparable with other high end device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Leonidas300 said:
2.2 is definitely an upgrade, spending 10 months on a phone that can't browse properly after my 2 year old n95 had Flash was very frustrating, although I have it installed I still think dueltouch is a nice feature but very overrated, don't care much for 16m colours but in retrospect the X10 wil be my last SE phone for the simple reason that they didn't keep there promises.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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What promise did they break? None that I know of, and they gave us dualtouch after selling this phone as incapable due to hardware. They only said update to 2.1. Misinformation like this is what is causing all this ill-will for SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
They may not have broken a promise but they fail to adhere to standards we have come to expect from devices of the same type. Theres no real excuse. Sony should have stepped up there game to put them in a good light. Now people will be hesitant to buy an se phone if they have so many short comings. I feel that 2.2 brought a lot of key features which made me enjoy my phone much more
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
arj154 said:
They may not have broken a promise but they fail to adhere to standards we have come to expect from devices of the same type. Theres no real excuse. Sony should have stepped up there game to put them in a good light. Now people will be hesitant to buy an se phone if they have so many short comings. I feel that 2.2 brought a lot of key features which made me enjoy my phone much more
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Again, Misinformation! Failed to adhere to standards... blah blah blah? Android and smartphones are a new developing technology, and what is standard in this type of industry is here today gone tomorrow. SE is still developing this device, and will continue to do so on 2.1. We have had 4 recent updates with more coming. SE's mistake was being honest and open about their intentions before they realistically needed to. We just got 2.1 in November.
Pretending now that having the latest OS is expected for the X10, when we all bought this phone knowing it came with outdated 1.6 is ridiculous. It boggles my mind. What universe do live in?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
16m colors was a promise..
Anyway i don't even care about official updates, se's version of android sucks in my opinion.
I'm quite happy with freex10. If it want for the devs on here with custom ROMs i would probably hate my phone..
agentJBM said:
Again, Misinformation! Failed to adhere to standards... blah blah blah? Android and smartphones are a new developing technology, and what is standard in this type of industry is here today gone tomorrow. SE is still developing this device, and will continue to do so on 2.1. We have had 4 recent updates with more coming. SE's mistake was being honest and open about their intentions before they realistically needed to. We just got 2.1 in November.
Pretending now that having the latest OS is expected for the X10, when we all bought this phone knowing it came with outdated 1.6 is ridiculous. It boggles my mind. What universe do live in?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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I fully understand that technology is developing rapidly specialy in the mobile phone game believe me and i think you fail to understand what i mean by standards. I mean standards as in the ones set by other manufacturers. Take the HTC desire for example. 2.2 wasnt out when it was launched however they updated it to 2.2 when it was available. HTC have changed the android device quite heavily with there senses UI yet they were still able to produce a 2.2 update for the phone.
I understand you may be angry at the moaners who say it should be updated to 2.3 or it should be updated as soon as the source code for 2.x is released. You've got to understand that we have bought a device which is capable of running a newer OS but SE haven't implemented a newer version.
Yes props to them for getting dual touch working but it seems like they havent fully gotten up to the standards of other manufacturers and they should try to do this otherwise they will fall behind.
When people like us buy a phone, we look to see if its going to be up to date in a year. The x10 is failing to get up to date in 6 months and its already being put on the sidelines. Yes sony are releasing updates but they seem to be too fragmented. The 2.1 update didnt have exchange, 16mil colours etc these features should've been included from the start.
arj154 said:
I fully understand that technology is developing rapidly specialy in the mobile phone game believe me and i think you fail to understand what i mean by standards. I mean standards as in the ones set by other manufacturers. Take the HTC desire for example. 2.2 wasnt out when it was launched however they updated it to 2.2 when it was available. HTC have changed the android device quite heavily with there senses UI yet they were still able to produce a 2.2 update for the phone.
I understand you may be angry at the moaners who say it should be updated to 2.3 or it should be updated as soon as the source code for 2.x is released. You've got to understand that we have bought a device which is capable of running a newer OS but SE haven't implemented a newer version.
Yes props to them for getting dual touch working but it seems like they havent fully gotten up to the standards of other manufacturers and they should try to do this otherwise they will fall behind.
When people like us buy a phone, we look to see if its going to be up to date in a year. The x10 is failing to get up to date in 6 months and its already being put on the sidelines. Yes sony are releasing updates but they seem to be too fragmented. The 2.1 update didnt have exchange, 16mil colours etc these features should've been included from the start.
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You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
roaringhere said:
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
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Im sorry but I completely disagree. Companies like Sony should be pressured into competing with other manufacturers and I think your car example isnt relevant. If the car was capped at 40mph when it could do 120mph then it may be applicable or if a new computer came with windows 98.
If we didnt have any expectations then the market wouldnt move forward. Smartphones would be a stagnated market and there would be no competition. These standards drive competition and I'm not crazy for having them and I'm sure many people on this forum feel the same way.
You may think I'm expecting too much but all I want is for sony to keep up with other manufacturers and ensure that the phone reaches its full potential. If I had a phone which was half the power of the x10 e.g. 512mhz processor, 128mb RAM etc then I would be happy with 2.1 and a number of updates to optimise the phone. I would accept that its not capable and wait until i can afford an upgrade but this isnt the case. We know the x10 is capable of running 2.2 and it brings too many benifits for sony to ignore.
I see that your quite a stubborn person and you seem to be quite happy with sony trickling out updates as theyve done with all there phones. I know you probably havent read or fully taken in what I've said so please can you just let this go so the thread can get back on topic? I dont want to continue this argument as it seems youre too stubborn to talk to. I've repeated myself a number of times on this thread and I stand by my views that Sony should keep up with every other manufacturer.
roaringhere said:
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
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Click to collapse
And by your logic manufacturers will always be free to screw their customers over just because for the past few years it's become the norm for them to release and shortly after, forget their handphones. And the x10 isn't even old. Android has changed the game. HTC gets it.
Is it unreasonable to expect Froyo on a device that by CURRENT standards, is still very competitively specd? And who cares if SE never promised Froyo for the first gen Android Xperias? We've got Froyo running thanks to some awesome devs here at xda, and the bootloader cracking is an ongoing project. There is still so much to do. So just sit back and watch.
To me, 2.2 is a significant upgrade. I know that SE plans to update the x10 but with improvements to 2.1 only. Thats fine, and props to SE for the support. But 2.2 is what this device really needs.
The X10 hardware is very crap..
So in my opinion SE can shove it.
2.3, 2.5, 3.0 won't fix the hardware..
arj154 said:
Im sorry but I completely disagree. Companies like Sony should be pressured into competing with other manufacturers and I think your car example isnt relevant. If the car was capped at 40mph when it could do 120mph then it may be applicable or if a new computer came with windows 98.
If we didnt have any expectations then the market wouldnt move forward. Smartphones would be a stagnated market and there would be no competition. These standards drive competition and I'm not crazy for having them and I'm sure many people on this forum feel the same way.
You may think I'm expecting too much but all I want is for sony to keep up with other manufacturers and ensure that the phone reaches its full potential. If I had a phone which was half the power of the x10 e.g. 512mhz processor, 128mb RAM etc then I would be happy with 2.1 and a number of updates to optimise the phone. I would accept that its not capable and wait until i can afford an upgrade but this isnt the case. We know the x10 is capable of running 2.2 and it brings too many benifits for sony to ignore.
I see that your quite a stubborn person and you seem to be quite happy with sony trickling out updates as theyve done with all there phones. I know you probably havent read or fully taken in what I've said so please can you just let this go so the thread can get back on topic? I dont want to continue this argument as it seems youre too stubborn to talk to. I've repeated myself a number of times on this thread and I stand by my views that Sony should keep up with every other manufacturer.
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No, smartphones would be a dead market if every phone got free updates for as long as the customers felt entitled, and no one ever had to buy another phone. Thereby stagnating growth. The more phones they sell, the faster this technology will develop. The great thing is its users can pick up where the manufacturers leave off.
Did you buy a service contact with this device? No, that is what is standard with companies that offer continual support. This product has a life of approx two years. It's a disposable product, and not meant to be used longterm.
I think one reason for there is such a disconnect is because younger and younger people are using technology. While they can use the device better than their elders, they are not wise in the ways of how things work in the real world. Life isn't fair, and nothing is free. This is the first product in modern history that I can think of that gets free updates and upgrades. You're going to be extremely disappointed if you think this is how business works.
Even HTC has issues their users aren't happy with, and HTC is owned by Google who created Android, so current OS is to be expected. Like fruit and iPhone. SE isn't selling their own OS.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Error. Please delete.
agentJBM said:
No, smartphones would be a dead market if every phone got free updates for as long as the customers felt entitled, and no one ever had to buy another phone. Thereby stagnating growth. The more phones they sell, the faster this technology will develop. The great thing is its users can pick up where the manufacturers leave off.
Did you buy a service contact with this device? No, that is what is standard with companies that offer continual support. This product has a life of approx two years. It's a disposable product, and not meant to be used longterm.
I think one reason for there is such a disconnect is because younger and younger people are using technology. While they can use the device better than their elders, they are not wise in the ways of how things work in the real world. Life isn't fair, and nothing is free. This is the first product in modern history that I can think of that gets free updates and upgrades. You're going to be extremely disappointed if you think this is how business works. Even HTC has issues their users aren't happy with, and HTC isn't going to fix. Google who created Android also owns HTC, so more is to be expected. Like fruit and iPhone.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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omg your incredibly ignorant and your clearly not reading what im saying. Im not expecting free updates forever. Im just expecting them to upgrade it to 2.2. Also did HTC abondon the HTC desire at 2.1? no they upgraded it to 2.2. I completely agree that its not economical to provide updates for free all the time.
You've got to move with the times too. We will demand updates, android is the platform which will push manufactures to develop phones with the current version of android.
I would gladly pay for an upgrade if it came to that, so its not an issue of money. Its about brand reliability, a lot of phone manufacturers rely on this. I have heard from so many family members who have owned sony erricson feature phones that have been put off by there software so its also the issue of the quality of there products.
You seem to thinks its fine just to stand by and let a company give you a faulty product. I mean if you got a burger which was completely undercooked and was not the way you expect it to be then you would complain. Its the same principle here.
You have a very jaded outlook on life it seems, i mean if you listen to the latest podcast of windows weekly, even paul thurrot has the same problems with windows phone 7 where micrsoft arent releasing updates fast enough to keep up with the competition. (and btw im pretty sure he's just over 40 so its not a generational gap).
In an ever critical industry that is technology, companies need to keep good brand reliability to keep on top of things.
Froyo provided the following benefits over Eclair:
- JIT compiler
- V8 javascript engine
- OpenGL ES 2.0
- App2SD
- USB tethering
- Wifi hotspot
- Bluetooth voice dialing
- MS Exchange support
- access to Adobe Flash 10.1
- access to Adobe Air
Seeing as how the first three provide significant speed boosts (we're seeing greater than 100% performance gains on 2.2 vs. 2.1 with JIT enabled), they alone are worth it. App2SD is pretty important as well, as SE saddled us with pretty measly app storage (especially when their custom apps are taken into account).
Now from what I can see, Gingerbread is less of an upgrade from Froyo (at least for the X10). But then SE hasn't given us Froyo.
arj154 said:
omg your incredibly ignorant and your clearly not reading what im saying. Im not expecting free updates forever. Im just expecting them to upgrade it to 2.2. Also did HTC abondon the HTC desire at 2.1? no they upgraded it to 2.2. I completely agree that its not economical to provide updates for free all the time.
You've got to move with the times too. We will demand updates, android is the platform which will push manufactures to develop phones with the current version of android.
I would gladly pay for an upgrade if it came to that, so its not an issue of money. Its about brand reliability, a lot of phone manufacturers rely on this. I have heard from so many family members who have owned sony erricson feature phones that have been put off by there software so its also the issue of the quality of there products.
You seem to thinks its fine just to stand by and let a company give you a faulty product. I mean if you got a burger which was completely undercooked and was not the way you expect it to be then you would complain. Its the same principle here.
You have a very jaded outlook on life it seems, i mean if you listen to the latest podcast of windows weekly, even paul thurrot has the same problems with windows phone 7 where micrsoft arent releasing updates fast enough to keep up with the competition. (and btw im pretty sure he's just over 40 so its not a generational gap).
In an ever critical industry that is technology, companies need to keep good brand reliability to keep on top of things.
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Click to collapse
Me ignorant? Your the one who bought the device with the oldest OS, and are expecting it to suddenly be running the latest. You assumed to the point of feeling entitled to additional OS updates beyond what the specs for the device clearly stated, 2.1. You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of u and me.
Yes it would be nice for additional updates, and maybe even expected if additional development didn't have to be done to make it work on the x10, but you are overestimating the number of people who feel jaded. We, in the forums, are a small percent, and the number who feel ripped off like you is only a portion of that.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Every product has unsatisfied customers. If not we'd all be buying the same device. The Xperia was never marketed as having the latest Android OS. It had great hardware like 8 mega pixel camera and 1 GHz processor. If you wanted the latest OS, you should have bought HTC, the device of the Android developer Google.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
agentJBM said:
Me ignorant? Your the one who bought the device with the oldest OS, and are expecting it to suddenly be running the latest. You assumed to the point of feeling entitled to additional OS updates beyond what the specs for the device clearly stated, 2.1. You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of u and me.
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Yup, SE has made an ass out of you and me.
I bought SE because I had SE phones in the past, I liked the style and functions and I especially liked the supplied software for the PC. I've unbranded them too.
In the case of the X10, I went back to look at my review in September on Amazon just a few moments ago. I expected a AT&T 2.1 by the end of the year, and I thought that once the X12 was released, SE would give us a 2.2 also, since the phone was still in warranty/service. No one new about 2.3/2.4 at that time. I thought that because the phone only had 384mb RAM it wouldn't be able to handled 'Gingerbread' without 512mb which was the rumor at that time for it's specs.
Additionally in that review, I said that the phone was compromised by not having noise cancellation, and that SE was very slow at updating it, but for good reason.
What PO's me is the unexpected shortened term to EOL. EIGHT MONTHS ON ATT? This is almost unheard of. SE's PC companion software for this phone is not as robust as the prior versions and the USB driver for flashing doesn't work on XP SP3 and they won't fix it. They tell you to upgrade to W7.
Due to shortcomings in the Android OS which I did not investigate as much as I should have, simple things like bluetooth devices that I have from SE don't WORK FULLY with either 1.6 and 2.1, I need 2.3 to get the full function back for devices that are YEARS old and worked fine with $50 phones.
Most of my current annoyance at the situation right now is due to the abandonment of the phone by both AT&T and SE. Yeah, they are updating stuff, and AT&T is certainly trying to wait it all out so they only have to approve/screw up a singe firmware update.
I really really want to hear from AT&T and SE that they will upgrade the phone to the Arc for the subsidized or further reduced price without contract extension or penalty fees, but I don't think AT&T is going to carry it or SE very quickly (again).
stan.s said:
Yup, SE has made an ass out of you and me.
I bought SE because I had SE phones in the past, I liked the style and functions and I especially liked the supplied software for the PC. I've unbranded them too.
In the case of the X10, I went back to look at my review in September on Amazon just a few moments ago. I expected a AT&T 2.1 by the end of the year, and I thought that once the X12 was released, SE would give us a 2.2 also, since the phone was still in warranty/service. No one new about 2.3/2.4 at that time. I thought that because the phone only had 384mb RAM it wouldn't be able to handled 'Gingerbread' without 512mb which was the rumor at that time for it's specs.
Additionally in that review, I said that the phone was compromised by not having noise cancellation, and that SE was very slow at updating it, but for good reason.
What PO's me is the unexpected shortened term to EOL. EIGHT MONTHS ON ATT? This is almost unheard of. SE's PC companion software for this phone is not as robust as the prior versions and the USB driver for flashing doesn't work on XP SP3 and they won't fix it. They tell you to upgrade to W7.
Due to shortcomings in the Android OS which I did not investigate as much as I should have, simple things like bluetooth devices that I have from SE don't WORK FULLY with either 1.6 and 2.1, I need 2.3 to get the full function back for devices that are YEARS old and worked fine with $50 phones.
Most of my current annoyance at the situation right now is due to the abandonment of the phone by both AT&T and SE. Yeah, they are updating stuff, and AT&T is certainly trying to wait it all out so they only have to approve/screw up a singe firmware update.
I really really want to hear from AT&T and SE that they will upgrade the phone to the Arc for the subsidized or further reduced price without contract extension or penalty fees, but I don't think AT&T is going to carry it or SE very quickly (again).
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You know, even if AT&T gave us the update I bet most people, including myself, would stay generic because of AT&T's attempt to block us from non-market & some market apps. Even if SE gave us 2.2+, we would still be hacking it and installing our own custom ROMs and themes. The xda Xperia developers are the ones who have it rough.
I believe AT&T will do something for us. I am in a unique situation. I bought my X10a on November 10, during the update fiasco and I was told my X10a was coming already updated to 2.1. It obviously didn't. During the many phone calls since, they have always told me that I don't need to return the phone because something was around the corner. I'm sure everyone who has bought the X10a since has been told something similar.
Ps. I got the USB drivers to work on the flasher on my XP SP3. I remember having to find them and install myself, but I don't have any trouble.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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Click to collapse
This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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Click to collapse
this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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Click to collapse
My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Click to collapse
Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
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Click to collapse
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
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Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
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Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
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Click to collapse
You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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Click to collapse
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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Click to collapse
It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
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No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.
So ive been putting it off for a while, but its time to retire the device im using. Trouble is, I'm used to being rooted. And theres so much out there, I figured I'd ask here first instead of getting swamped trying to dig through the options.
So, my budget is around $250-300, flexible depending on the device and what not. Prepaid cuz **** contracts and all that. And so you know what I'm coming from, Im currently on a Galaxy J3 with Virgin. So whatever it is should be a noticeable, preferably significant upgrade from that.
Things ive never had in a phone but would definitely pay a little more for:
Fingerprint sensor
NFC capabilities (android pay, etc)
Anything that has been standard on fancier, more expensive phones but not on devices under ~$150 (my max I'd spend in the past).
Carrier doesnt matter too much, as long as its prepaid/no contract.
Help me people, I await your advice.
Also, apologies if this isnt where this should be posted.
darknaio said:
So ive been putting it off for a while, but its time to retire the device im using. Trouble is, I'm used to being rooted. And theres so much out there, I figured I'd ask here first instead of getting swamped trying to dig through the options.
So, my budget is around $250-300, flexible depending on the device and what not. Prepaid cuz **** contracts and all that. And so you know what I'm coming from, Im currently on a Galaxy J3 with Virgin. So whatever it is should be a noticeable, preferably significant upgrade from that.
Things ive never had in a phone but would definitely pay a little more for:
Fingerprint sensor
NFC capabilities (android pay, etc)
Anything that has been standard on fancier, more expensive phones but not on devices under ~$150 (my max I'd spend in the past).
Carrier doesnt matter too much, as long as its prepaid/no contract.
Help me people, I await your advice.
Also, apologies if this isnt where this should be posted.
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Try Micromax Canvas Infinity
Ill go the whole ordering a phone overseas as a last resort. Id prefer it to not be too "off brand" if possible. If not then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
Due to a little frustration I decided to create a whole thread for this.
I suck at computers and I have no idea what I am doing so I ended up bricking my device lmao.
In theory, the thought of rooting your device, and installing a custom OS sounds great! (Like communism) but when put in practice never really works out. The reason for that (I think) is because there are so many different versions, models, and brands. I end up spending all my time trying to refine my search to the right software and versions, and then when I do, I am stuck with some stupid site like (every damn rom site) with a 20kb/s download rate, and a page full of ads! Why? Because they are storing like 2 billion different 2GB roms. In my opinion paying for faster download speed from these websites is ridiculous. I don't even know why they offer (you would have to be stupid(like me)).
(tl;dr: Android SUCKS)
So, now to my actual question...
With the release of the Librem 5 phone, there really is not going to be a point to rooting phones anymore, because google with already be decimated from it... But that comes out in April/May and I still need a phone in the meantime.
So.. Are there any cheap phones ($500+/-), that are not a pain in the ass to root? And one that the developers actually care about to actively develop. All I wan't is a phone I can install stock android with root, and that can be installed without google or gapps. Also I live in Canada, which is another reason why it's a pain in the ass to find a decent phone because all our carriers deadbolt their firmware, and bootloaders like their storing the coordinates to some secret location with a pot of gold.
starscrpt said:
Due to a little frustration I decided to create a whole thread for this.
I suck at computers and I have no idea what I am doing so I ended up bricking my device lmao.
In theory, the thought of rooting your device, and installing a custom OS sounds great! (Like communism) but when put in practice never really works out. The reason for that (I think) is because there are so many different versions, models, and brands. I end up spending all my time trying to refine my search to the right software and versions, and then when I do, I am stuck with some stupid site like (every damn rom site) with a 20kb/s download rate, and a page full of ads! Why? Because they are storing like 2 billion different 2GB roms. In my opinion paying for faster download speed from these websites is ridiculous. I don't even know why they offer (you would have to be stupid(like me)).
(tl;dr: Android SUCKS)
So, now to my actual question...
With the release of the Librem 5 phone, there really is not going to be a point to rooting phones anymore, because google with already be decimated from it... But that comes out in April/May and I still need a phone in the meantime.
So.. Are there any cheap phones ($500+/-), that are not a pain in the ass to root? And one that the developers actually care about to actively develop. All I wan't is a phone I can install stock android with root, and that can be installed without google or gapps. Also I live in Canada, which is another reason why it's a pain in the ass to find a decent phone because all our carriers deadbolt their firmware, and bootloaders like their storing the coordinates to some secret location with a pot of gold.
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Try Mediatek phones, they are cheap, easy to unlock and root.
However, you will have to search whether they have a custom ROM since Mediatek never releases their source.
HIT THANKS IF FOUND USEFUL