Related
So, as we all know the Omate TrueSmart is as waterproof as a leaky boat, or perhaps a sponge.
However, I don't think there are any other Horologists on the forum at the moment. ( wikipedia horologist http:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki/horologist ).
After looking at the "seals" on the case buttons, and the laughable o-ring that Umeox/Omate have chosen to use on the back, along with the piece of silicone flap that they are using to seal the SIM card... I have to say that expecting it to be water resistant to any degree is a bit laughable.
So, I have a solution, the same one used by Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Citizen, Seiko, etc.. etc...
* Liquid silicone sealant gel on the SIM card seal and flap.
* Replace the silicone o-rings for the watch back with a thin silicone gasket, with more sealant gel
* Retrofit and replace the button seals, or create black silicone button covers that better seal them
I'm going to have to look at the speaker port on the watchband. I don't know if there is a simple solution there to make it compliant for 1 meter depth without severely affecting the quality of the sound output from that port. A brief examination makes it seem that the port -might- be able to take IP67 conditions .. but without reinforcement, I doubt it could take the forces involved in a swim, waves, wakes, spas.
Still, I think I can put together a kit, and instructions that careful and diligent people could use to retrofit the TrueSmart to make it far more waterproof than the manufacturer does. The kit would cost between $15 and $25 US, mostly to cover the cost of making custom molds for the silicone gaskets. ( There is a local TechShop here in Austin, and I have a CNC mill to make the aluminum molds, and all the design experience and software I need. Even so, a small super-accurate mold is a couple hundred dollars worth of materials and work. )
If there is enough interest evidenced here on a poll, I'll make the kit.
Sincerely,
Martin Bogomolni
Maker, Horologist, Coder, and Machinist
Need to redesign the case so that the speaker is sealed as well.
I've read that the O-rings are different among different runs. If the shape of the part of the case they fit against is different as well, wouldn't that make this effort require potentially as many different molds as the number of firmwares Loki has been trying to contend with? Or is it just the ring that's been different?
The case design is different. There's at least two maybe three.
Then that means I'll need to make two or three variants of the kit. This will also require some externally-visible way to identify the differences between various batches of TrueSmart watches.
Lokifish Marz said:
The case design is different. There's at least two maybe three.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think, just an opinion, that if the gasket between the body and the back cover has holes for the screws to pass through it like on my Last of the Kickstarter Dev Eds, 1/8/1900, delivered first of the USA group in early Feb, then that gasket works if properly placed and screwed together. The housing on these is flat, without raised screw hole posts and no groove.
I think the main problem you are going to need to overcome is the buttons and the mic pinhole leaking.
The speaker, if it doesn't mind getting wet itself, provides no entry path into the body if the wire set going in has been properly sealed inside (white sealant on mine, I think). Water could destroy the speaker, OK maybe, but not the watch unless it can follow the speaker connections back up into the body. Where the band halves meet the body on both sides there is a hole through the body to let the cables through, sealed inside with some white stuff. Maybe sealed...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
The speaker is inside the case (under the square "bump" in the backplate) and uses nothing more than double sided tape. It is partly held into place by the plastic insert.
What is that open slot for then, in the band on the speaker side ?
Where the sound comes out ?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Yep. (see attached image)
Yes I was also curious about how the waterproofness of the speaker and microphone port would be approached. But I'm definitely down for one of these.
For what it's worth, I've submerged (no more than 2ft) my NA 1gb/8gb OTS and used it in the shower after having opened the bottom. During the first week I was constantly checking inside the case for internal moisture and didn't see any. It's been a while, but I remember thinking the physical buttons looked like they would let water in if used while underwater, but that didn't seem to happen.
for giggles, my omate arrived with bad software, and only pulling the battery would fix it. I had first tried letting the battery die out but the vcom drivers didn't fully take until i pulled the battery, so the water seal warranty was moot from early on. I don't remember how long I waited, but I sent the following screen to cecilia and a few other mailboxes at omate for help with no response (surprise!) before pulling the battery and stepping through the restore guides.
Looking back, I can't even imagine how the bootloader got to be so trashed! Volume up and down you say?
I am in. Also shared on G+ and KS comments the poll, good luck!
Yep
I'm definitely in support of this. I created a kayaking app that is pretty useless with the watch the way it is... having this kit out there would be great.
Hi. I am a watchmaker (horlogist?) from Germany and its my daily job to make watches watertight.
I have access to professional measuring devices for checking the watches if they are sealed. It is testet via air pressure, no water. The watchcase deformation is measured by fine sensors and if it is deforming in the given parameters then the device says proof or leak. There are ranges from -0,8 Bar to +20 Bar.
Further tests to locate the leak are made with water tests.
I havent received my pre ordered true smart yet (but I own a simvalley AW-414.go). Before I would test the true smart I would like to know how much pressure it could take before the screen brakes.
After the long wait and seeing this IPx7 drama unfold, I decided to just flip my TrueSmart on delivery - and flog it on eBay/Amazon without ever opening the box. Depending on the delivery timeline and other factors (such as the impending release of the Polar V800 and Garmin fenix 2) I may reconsider that strategy if this "aftermarket waterproofing" plan gains momentum.
I checked the option to be willing to pay for professional install (having waited this long - and the fact that the V800 is another $100 more expensive than the TrueSmart) but I'm more than happy to do the install myself if the kit is solid. From what I gather in the initial post, it's going to be a far sight better than the factory seal. So, if I keep my TrueSmart I'd be in for either the home install or the pro install option.
FWIW - I could care less about using this phone in **** Tracy mode [trademark pending]. For my money, stuff a grommet in the ports and glue/seal them in place - my goal is to use the device for training.
DerUhrmacher said:
HThe watchcase deformation is measured by fine sensors and if it is deforming in the given parameters then the device says proof or leak. There are ranges from -0,8 Bar to +20 Bar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a pressurized submersion test it will fill with water before anything else. The case was never tested beyond about 0.015 Bar and even then it wasn't tested properly (bare case, no buttons or straps and all the ports sealed in 15cm of water).
Them doing something as simple as not putting in the speaker right or the double sided tape not seal correctly on the speaker will negate any water resistance it may have had.
Had any luck looking into this?
I would definitely be interested in a kit to improve waterproofing...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Me too ! I don't see a survey, maybe Tapatalk does not support surveys ?
I bought a NeverWet spray set from HomeDePot recently. They show how to treat an iPhone 5 by removing the back cover and spraying inside. I don't have an iPhone or I might try it. Wouldn't care...the stuff worked pretty good on my shoes though.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
In the meantime...
Hi horologists,
I was wondering: is there anything a layman could do in the meantime to, at least, improve the water sealing on the TrueSmart? I'm not interested in submerging it or taking a shower; I just don't want to be afraid that my watch will short if I get stuck in rain and put it in my pocket.
One of the things I obviously don't want to be doing is just smearing vaseline all over it as that'll ruin the silicone components, correct? I am currently purchasing silicone grease (dielectric so non-conductive) to improve the seals on the bottom and around the sim card case. What should I do about the buttons? Can I put more grease around their edges? Would vaseline be apprpriate there, since it's coming in contact with my skin and there seems to be no silicone gaskets? What's the best quick fix for buttons?
Sorry if these questions are stupid but... this is admittedly coming from a place of utter ignorance. : )
Take care and thanks very much.
Thought id ask to see what kind of experiences everybody has had.... This isn't meant to be a warranty question I kinda what to ascertain what the TS can do instead of what it was meant to do
As I understand from the factory the TS should be able to withstand, hand washing, being rained on, sweat and the occasional spillage, I mention these as none of these having any additional water pressure that would force water ingress for example, showering.
Once you open the back case is it game over.... or if you properly screw back in you will get back the same level of water protection?...
I mean physical protection as obviously warranty is automatically void...
Anyone thought about getting some Hyrdrophobic coating?
http://www.nanostate.co.uk/flash-flood-to-waterproof-smartphones-and-tablets-5ml-p-3.php
Best advice would be to treat it the same as your phone. Try not to get it wet. I had to remove the cover on mine due to an issue flashing. The rubber seal was not properly placed from the factory to begin with.
Regarding the hydrophobic coating. I have considered it, but not some do it yourself process. There is a company that you can ship your device to. They will put it in a vacuum chamber and inject a gas that seeps into every tiny area. You can't get everywhere from a do it yourself kit.
I've opened the back case of my TS (voiding the water warranty) due to a factory shipped bad flash, and since to install a micro-sd card + check for water. I haven't had any seepage from wear in the shower or while washing dishes. I don't think the two physical buttons are designed to be used while submerged, and the touchscreen is useless when wet (if you're lucky, if it's covered in droplets the screen is registering touches all over the place).
removing the back cover does not break any magic water sealing. between the back cover and the housing is a thin and easily damaged rubber ring which needs to be reinstalled correctly. if you read through the forum, you'll find the QA process is not very refined, and many devices with unbroken "OK" stickers have suffered water damage among other issues
as you've alredy removed the back cover, you can remove the battery and do some testing to see if your seal holds. at least without power going through the circuits, any damage will be minimal and you'll know your tolerances.
--
The two buttons were exactly designed to be used underwater. The original design had no buttons, but kick starter backers pointed out that touchscreens do not work at all underwater. So Omate added buttons to the design. They just leak, that's all.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Hello,
Something happened to my watch. I opened it to install an SD card. I did as the instructions says, carefully. The rubber gasket was well placed and I tightened the screws the maximum I could, with the provided screwdriver. I guess it would not be tight at all, because, although it has been wet three times and anything happened, Yesterday it was exposed to sweat for a while, and then washed the same way like previous times. Today it worked well all the morning, but around noon, I saw it appeared many stripes on the screen and checking the clock externally I've finally seen condensation into the lens, so I guess, obviously, that moisture has entered inside the watch. I've opened the watch, remove battery and SD card, and then introduced it into rice, using an airtight container to try drying it.
Lens condensation has disappeared, but in the display is still appearing lines.
I wonder what can I do, who should I contact for assistance to repair, where should I send it for repair in case I can't revive the screen, because as I think, this type of damage is not covered by warranty.
I am disappointed with this device because of this. It should not be so complicated to close it and to keep it well sealed. Its design in this particular point is disastrous. I can ensure that the rubber seal was installed properly, and the only thing I can imagine is that the screws do not stay tight properly, but I repeat that I tightened it all the way I could, strongly, until the limit of not to damage the screw heads, and checking for the joints are well sealed. If I finally can fix the watch, the next time I need to open the back cover, I'll pre-tighten it with a sergeant tool before tightening the screws... it seems to be necessary...
Thank you for your help.
It is ruined. Sell it for parts maybe. A shame.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
lanzas said:
If I finally can fix the watch, the next time I need to open the back cover, I'll pre-tighten it with a sergeant tool before tightening the screws... it seems to be necessary...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a waste of time. There is no way to make the existing case waterproof - not just the two screw openings but also the antenna, speaker, microphone and buttons are all possible routes for moisture ingress.
One look at the SIM cover and its pretend gasket convinced me of this. There is not enough structural integrity to ensure a good seal. The gasket will not be compressed in a way that makes a watertight seal - over tightening might even make things worse by deforming the plastic.
If you ever get it to work again, keep it dry.
lanzas said:
Yesterday it was exposed to sweat for a while, and then washed the same way like previous times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a very good idea to wash an electronic device that has no water / moisture protection what so ever (the seals don't do much good, and there are lots of other gaps in the watch where water can get in). Sometimes devices can recover when dried completely. Maybe put it in a bag of rice, that's great for absorbing moisture... But most likely, it's dead.
It is supposed to be a waterproof watch...
Definitely the screen is broken. The watch works fine, but the screen shows a lot of lines that don't allow clear visualization. No one from Omate answered my email...
I feel cheated... and silly...
You WERE cheated, we all were. Don't feel silly though, you were misled by a pro.
You might possibly be able to replace the display with an iPod Nano display, but I don't know anyone who has and an iPod Nano display might be worth more than your TrueSmart.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Dropped z2 yday ;/ it was one of my frenchies who jumped on me, phone fall first on screen, than on back glass and finaly landed in dogs water bowl. took it out right away, screen ok, back glass broken and no visible sign of any water entered.
I want to replace the broken glass deck, but to make it so that phone will still be wateproof.. Anyone have any experiance with that? If so, where did you order back glass and did it come with adhesive coating ..?
Thanks for all answers!
102
aawawa said:
Dropped z2 yday ;/ it was one of my frenchies who jumped on me, phone fall first on screen, than on back glass and finaly landed in dogs water bowl. took it out right away, screen ok, back glass broken and no visible sign of any water entered.
I want to replace the broken glass deck, but to make it so that phone will still be wateproof.. Anyone have any experiance with that? If so, where did you order back glass and did it come with adhesive coating ..?
Thanks for all answers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got mine off of eBay. You need the back glass and new adhesive.
Phone won't be as waterproof anymore, but I've dipped my phone in the sink fora few seconds without harm.
http://iphoneno.com/categories/Sony-Mobile-Part/Xperia-Z2-Parts/
mariosraptor said:
http://iphoneno.com/categories/Sony-Mobile-Part/Xperia-Z2-Parts/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this come with adhesive and would you know how if we can retain nfc? I heard changing the back you lose NFC...
Thanks.
It comes with adhesive. But nfc antenna must be unglued from the old back glass. To do that you have to heat up the glass very well so it won't break or torn off.
Heat up the old glass i mean.
hey guys , did anyone succeeded to buy original back glass , and after that phone is again waterproof ? cos some people told me that doesnt matter what back cover i buy even with adhesive , the phone wont be waterproof , only sony can repair it for waterproof again. is that true ?
No man
There are adhesive on the back of glass dont mention about it
You could either buy the plate AND the adhesive thingy (comes separately). Or go my way (slightly risky).
The stock glass plate keeps breaking so I took the measurements and made an Aluminium plate. Then drilled camera holes into it and painted it. Then came the tricky part. I stuck the plate into place using regular epoxy (waterproof) adhesive. You have to be very careful while doing the last part because of obvious reasons tho.
The problem with the adhesive thingy that you get to buy (And also the one that Sony uses in the device) is that although its water proof, it isn't heat resistant. and as we all know how Sony phones heat, the adhesive comes off.
MindfreakBS said:
You could either buy the plate AND the adhesive thingy (comes separately). Or go my way (slightly risky).
The stock glass plate keeps breaking so I took the measurements and made an Aluminium plate. Then drilled camera holes into it and painted it. Then came the tricky part. I stuck the plate into place using regular epoxy (waterproof) adhesive. You have to be very careful while doing the last part because of obvious reasons tho.
The problem with the adhesive thingy that you get to buy (And also the one that Sony uses in the device) is that although its water proof, it isn't heat resistant. and as we all know how Sony phones heat, the adhesive comes off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very creative and I sure as hell would like to try my hand at it. How thick was the aluminum?
I bet your phone becomes hot as an iron when gaming haha, which is good for your internals because of better heat dissipation. Any adverse effects on mobile reception? wifi? bluetooth? guess NFC is gone haha
ice_lander said:
hey guys , did anyone succeeded to buy original back glass , and after that phone is again waterproof ? cos some people told me that doesnt matter what back cover i buy even with adhesive , the phone wont be waterproof , only sony can repair it for waterproof again. is that true ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I given my z2 to friend to replace battery and few days ago I left my phone in silk for 10 minutes, because it was dirty and no issue here.
@MindfreakBS
What are NFC and Cell reception like since installing the aluminium back plate?
Any deterioration in signal strength / call quality / WiFi / Bluetooth?
Pixelado said:
This is very creative and I sure as hell would like to try my hand at it. How thick was the aluminum?
I bet your phone becomes hot as an iron when gaming haha, which is good for your internals because of better heat dissipation. Any adverse effects on mobile reception? wifi? bluetooth? guess NFC is gone haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aluminium is a millimetre thick. It does get hot, yeah.
Mobile reception is same (Maybe a tad bit lower, idk), wifi bluetooth work fine. NFC still intact. I fixed it onto the plate in position.
@rubiicon59 that should answer your question too
I was planning to post a tutorial. Haven't been able to take out enough time though.
How about a pic...
MindfreakBS said:
Aluminium is a millimetre thick. It does get hot, yeah.
Mobile reception is same (Maybe a tad bit lower, idk), wifi bluetooth work fine. NFC still intact. I fixed it onto the plate in position.
@rubiicon59 that should answer your question too
I was planning to post a tutorial. Haven't been able to take out enough time though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've asked about the pic for a long time:crying::silly:
MindfreakBS said:
Aluminium is a millimetre thick. It does get hot, yeah.
Mobile reception is same (Maybe a tad bit lower, idk), wifi bluetooth work fine. NFC still intact. I fixed it onto the plate in position.
@rubiicon59 that should answer your question too
I was planning to post a tutorial. Haven't been able to take out enough time though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What if I want to use a 2-mm thick acrylic as my black plate? Is it possible? Because I am afraid that it will exceed the metal frame of the phone and it will ended up looking terrible:crying:
I agree, I think 1.0mm would be more suitable.
At 2mm, you might get an M4 Aqua kind of look hahaha
aawawa said:
Dropped z2 yday ;/ it was one of my frenchies who jumped on me, phone fall first on screen, than on back glass and finaly landed in dogs water bowl. took it out right away, screen ok, back glass broken and no visible sign of any water entered.
I want to replace the broken glass deck, but to make it so that phone will still be wateproof.. Anyone have any experiance with that? If so, where did you order back glass and did it come with adhesive coating ..?
Thanks for all answers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that if the broken glass was the only issue, and you use a original replacement part, or decent adhesive tape to glue them back together, you'll have no problem. I've had the same issue few weeks ago, replaced the screen and the phone didn't experienced any problem when submerged.
Do anyone now where can I get an official or a good quality back glass for my xperia z2, I broke the original one but i don't want to replace with one without any quality.
buy a nice "glue" to fix that..
I recently installed a screen protector that requires dipping in soapy water before applying and that I did.
This device is supposedly IP68 but after I applied the screen protector the phone went crazy!! screen turned off, no touch... after a couple hours screen back on but phone is buggy when it boots, laggy boot logo and touch after 1 full day still isnt responding!! Not to mention I hear camera noise (the one you hear when launching camera app) every time I boot the phone as if its launching camera as well?? WTH is this?? anybody got any suggestions? I placed the phone in a rice bowl and waiting for more hours or days to try it again but anybody faced similar issues? is my device broken because of this??? isnt it supposed to be water proof?!
I wash my phone regularly and don't have any issues. But I don't dip it into soap water, just wash it under stream and soap it outside of water (I also did this with not protected phone without any issue, just need to avoid the external ports).
IP rating is about clean water. Dipping it into soap water can mess the protection since the surface tension is not the same, so where water can't enter a hole of a certain size (for example the speakers grid), soap water could. And since soap are particules into water they can be conductive (water is not that conductive if pure) and mess with electronic if powered.
That is about the theory. Now Sony only make IP68 rated phones because their main market is japan, where people love to use their phone in their bath and that is a real selling point there. So it's weird your got broken by a small amount of soap. Did you try to remove the screen protector? Maybe it is messing with the touch part of the screen.
Hildr said:
I wash my phone regularly and don't have any issues. But I don't dip it into soap water, just wash it under stream and soap it outside of water (I also did this with not protected phone without any issue, just need to avoid the external ports).
IP rating is about clean water. Dipping it into soap water can mess the protection since the surface tension is not the same, so where water can't enter a hole of a certain size (for example the speakers grid), soap water could. And since soap are particules into water they can be conductive (water is not that conductive if pure) and mess with electronic if powered.
That is about the theory. Now Sony only make IP68 rated phones because their main market is japan, where people love to use their phone in their bath and that is a real selling point there. So it's weird your got broken by a small amount of soap. Did you try to remove the screen protector? Maybe it is messing with the touch part of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Baths are generally taken with water only. You shower before getting in the tub so I think you're right about the soap changing the water tension.
3 days ago (8 sept) my Xperia 1 died. I used to wash it regularly in the shower (and a little soap), then that day, a couple of hours after shower, simply turned off. No lights, no charging indicator, no screen, nada. This is really a sad week for me... And sad to say im moving to Samsung
I only could think in blaming the shower.. And if you ask why i washed regularly my phone, is that i work at a hospital er.
wasn't first time i washed it with little soap, practically did it every day, for 5 months. And it's weird my phone suddenly died hours after the shower.
Weird, same problem practically same day. Planned obsolescence??
Hildr said:
I wash my phone regularly and don't have any issues. But I don't dip it into soap water, just wash it under stream and soap it outside of water (I also did this with not protected phone without any issue, just need to avoid the external ports).
IP rating is about clean water. Dipping it into soap water can mess the protection since the surface tension is not the same, so where water can't enter a hole of a certain size (for example the speakers grid), soap water could. And since soap are particules into water they can be conductive (water is not that conductive if pure) and mess with electronic if powered.
That is about the theory. Now Sony only make IP68 rated phones because their main market is japan, where people love to use their phone in their bath and that is a real selling point there. So it's weird your got broken by a small amount of soap. Did you try to remove the screen protector? Maybe it is messing with the touch part of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but its not like I dipped it... the screen protector was dipped and then placed on my device, it wasnt soaking it just left water marks that had to be removed using a tool to stick the protector Id understand if it was dipped in soapy water it could break it but it was just a few drops and it hurts to see the phone got broken...
I dont know this is bad I used to do this on my XZ premium and it worked flawlessly immediately I mean if a phone is water proof and your theory applies on waterproof phones, that means a pool water could break it cuz its full of chlorine or sea water can break it due to salt and other elements...
but I spoke to a lab in my country and they ordered an original screen from Sony officially, but its gonna cost me around 300$...
madshark2009 said:
but its not like I dipped it... the screen protector was dipped and then placed on my device, it wasnt soaking it just left water marks that had to be removed using a tool to stick the protector Id understand if it was dipped in soapy water it could break it but it was just a few drops and it hurts to see the phone got broken...
I dont know this is bad I used to do this on my XZ premium and it worked flawlessly immediately I mean if a phone is water proof and your theory applies on waterproof phones, that means a pool water could break it cuz its full of chlorine or sea water can break it due to salt and other elements...
but I spoke to a lab in my country and they ordered an original screen from Sony officially, but its gonna cost me around 300$...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad, I understood you dipped the phone, I found that weird but who am I to judge? xD
There is no way some water on the screen that is just glass, or even into the speaker cut could break your phone, even non IP phone will not have problems with that.
Did you try to remove the screen protector? It would be the first thing to do, since it's the only new thing that could mess with the touch screen. And a bad screen protector could easily do that.
If you have already removed the screen protector and the phone is still bugged, then I really don't know what happen. I would try to use the warranty and ask a repair from Sony. In Europe there is a 2 year manufacturer warranty, so any Xperia 1 should still be able to use it. Dunno where you are from and what are the conditions there.
And yes, often it's written in the user manual that waterproofing is just against accidental immersion, and are not meant to go into a pool, and especially not into sea water (salt is the worst thing you will commonly find for electronic and generally any metal that can oxidize).
There were case of advertising showing phone taking photo under sea water, but with warranty void if done, written in the user manual...