I've personally had my eyes on the Mi 9 for a while since the first set of leaks came out, as the leaks got more & more specific & started to list the camera specifications I noticed immediately the lack of OIS & assumed it was just left off there accidentally, then when it was announced yesterday it was confirmed not to have OIS, admittedly at first it did put me off slightly as not having such a feature on a 2019 flagship seemed ridiculous to me, now however I'm not sure & will wait till the event on the 24th, let me know what you guys think & if it's important to you.
Without OIS you get bad pics at night. Video is okay with EIS but without OIS, you can't fix that.
When I pay over 400€, OIS is a must have.
With OIS you can only get better pictures of static scene at night or lower light. Does not apply to kids, pets or any moving objects that get blured out thanks to slower shutter speed compared to sensors without OIS that must use faster shutter speeds by design. For video OIS is useless. So it is understandable that OEMs like Xiaomi are cutting costs on OIS that you have very limited range of use. Basically only usecase today's is night static scene and that is not worth extra cost/devide thickness for aggressive priced devices like MI 9.
It doesn't really matter for me
Man that is so sad ois makes a flagship
They should have sacrificed a camera or 2 just for the ois
For the price l'm not crying about OIS. If i want it that bad I'll pay the premium elsewhere.
Rommco05 said:
When I noticed Mi9 is without OIS I was hardly shocked but I can leave one year without OIS and hoping Mi10 will have stabilization back. DXOmark give too high score to Mi9 so we should be fine also without. So yes I will but Mi9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It'll be interesting for sure to see how especially night photography will turn out with the Mi 9 vs the competition with OIS. Do we have a whitepaper somewhere that would show exactly how for example HDR+ (Google) works? Does it use a longer exposure for the shots, especially on Night Mode, or are the images that are stitched together taken with a relatively short exposure? (ie potentially possible even without OIS)
@D1G1TE OIS useless in videos? Man, than I need to tell you, that EIS works only in 30fps modes, so you are left absolutely without any stabilization in video, my mi 8 will record better 60fps videos (of course as soon as it's get update for it )
If OIS is compensated in the software section. Like they said in hands on. It doesn't bother me.
Rommco05 said:
Xiaomi said that?
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Click to collapse
No it was mentioned in a hands on (can't remember which) that EIS was doing its thing.
It has no ois yet its an extremely good camera?
??? What is going on here
Does it take decent night shots no blurry eis?
The GSM Arena review has convinced me the camera will be superior for my needs.
I don't believe I've ever had a phone with OIS - it is tricky to miss what you don't have!
---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 AM ----------
*justintime* said:
No it was mentioned in a hands on (can't remember which) that EIS was doing its thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GSM Arena review mentions it in the Video section
EIS is available for both cameras and all common resolutions (4K, 1080p and 720p), but it works only for the 30fps modes. The digital stabilization does a great job smoothing the camera shake at the expense of minor loss of FoV.
ToneLa said:
The GSM Arena review has convinced me the camera will be superior for my needs.
I don't believe I've ever had a phone with OIS - it is tricky to miss what you don't have!
---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 AM ----------
The GSM Arena review mentions it in the Video section
EIS is available for both cameras and all common resolutions (4K, 1080p and 720p), but it works only for the 30fps modes. The digital stabilization does a great job smoothing the camera shake at the expense of minor loss of FoV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK?? So no stabilisation at all 60fps? That kind of sucks.
https://www.gizchina.com/2019/02/17/mi-9-closed-loop-motor-explained/
NisseGurra said:
https://www.gizchina.com/2019/02/17/mi-9-closed-loop-motor-explained/
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Click to collapse
Is it possible to have OIS with a closed loop motor? Not sure I understood the article fully. Thanks!
ckarv said:
Is it possible to have OIS with a closed loop motor? Not sure I understood the article fully. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From how I read it, with the position sensor immediately informing the VCM to adjust, that means that OIS isn't necessarily needed, however whether it's possible is a different matter entirely I think
I find it a strange story. If you compare those drawings it looks to me it's an enhanced OIS. Now with a positioning sensor.
Why didn't they market this aspect better...?? It wasn't been told in the presentation.
Yes it has OIS but better?
BTW. I hear the "closed loop motor" now for the first time.
*justintime* said:
I find it a strange story. If you compare those drawings it looks to me it's an enhanced OIS. Now with a positioning sensor.
Why didn't they market this aspect better...?? It wasn't been told in the presentation.
Yes it has OIS but better?
BTW. I hear the "closed loop motor" now for the first time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's inferior to OIS, basically the "closed loop motor" can focus faster & more accurate thanks to the positioning sensor, however in regards to stability OIS wins because it isn't fixed, you'll see quite a few Mi 9 owners complaining over blur in night shots, this is because when the persons had shakes there is no OIS to compensate.
Edit: I saw inferior because if you look at the Mix 3's focusing it was perfectly fine imo, we've lost OIS for something that wasn't necessarily "bad" in the first place.
This is how I think it works based on my own research, Xiaomi didn't really give us any information on it themselves, so if anyone more knowledgeable has more to add or correct, feel free
TheInfiniteAndroid said:
Because it's inferior to OIS, basically the "closed loop motor" can focus faster & more accurate thanks to the positioning sensor, however in regards to stability OIS wins because it isn't fixed, you'll see quite a few Mi 9 owners complaining over blur in night shots, this is because when the persons had shakes there is no OIS to compensate.
Edit: I saw inferior because if you look at the Mix 3's focusing it was perfectly fine imo, we've lost OIS for something that wasn't necessarily "bad" in the first place.
This is how I think it works based on my own research, Xiaomi didn't really give us any information on it themselves, so if anyone more knowledgeable has more to add or correct, feel free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read somewhere that the fact Mi 9 is using a larger sensor, and because of this fitting OIS wasn't possible. Do you know of any phone with the Sony IMX586 sensor that has OIS? This doesn't explain why eg the telephoto sensor and lens doesn't have OIS though ?
ckarv said:
I read somewhere that the fact Mi 9 is using a larger sensor, and because of this fitting OIS wasn't possible. Do you know of any phone with the Sony IMX586 sensor that has OIS? This doesn't explain why eg the telephoto sensor and lens doesn't have OIS though ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Honor View 20 uses the IMX586 & that too doesn't have OIS it uses EIS & AIS. There is also another Xiaomi device, the Redmi Note 7 Pro, which has the IMX586 & again, there is no OIS, assuming they're the only devices that use the IMX586 then it's confirmed that there is no OIS possible with the IMX586
Related
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
Sony
Sony post processing isn't as good as it could be, look at this Xperia Z sample.
If you have a high end Sony phone from the last two years I wouldn't hesitate to say that your photos and video will drastically improve with this new API if implemented well in a good app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
unidentifier said:
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We were hoping that the API and RAW format was going to arrive in KK as it was rumoured back then. Having access to the RAW data will help, but a noisy sensor is a noisy sensor.
There are some photo comparisons out there of the Nexus 5 running both Kitkat and Lollipop. The improvement in quality is very very noticeable, and I will eat a hat if we don't see some improvement on the Z Ultra too.
I believe it was Forbes that tested the Nexus 5 camera.
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Sm0L said:
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
ShadowVlican said:
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already a third party camera app for Lollipop that does this. It shoots RAW. The app itself is crappy (according to most users), but it's more of a proof of concept at this point.
H. E. Pennypacker said:
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Sm0L said:
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
madphone said:
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony's post-processing is the worst.
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor R Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll just have to wait i guess No reason to fight over something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer yet.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
Edit: All that to say, maybe there is hope in the software department.
Johnmcl7 said:
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Triflot said:
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Solid research John and Triflot. Thank you.
Personally, I will be happy if the camera works at all with unlocked bl.
You want me to put the hammer down?
Deleted
leonbarroso said:
Do as I did - buy a semipro camera on blackfriday
Serious photography with smartphone is bull****
And I am a former Lumia 1020 owner
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does it have to be 'serious' photography? I have many dedicated cameras from 1in sensor size up to professional full frame setups but none of those cameras are small enough to keep in my trouser pockets all the time, I tried recently going for one of the smallest dedicated cameras I could find but even that was irritating to carry in my trouser pockets alongside the phone. My phone on the other hand is always in my pocket and always to hand so it's ready to go any time when I want to take a photo unexpectedly plus its online connection means the photo is immediately ready to upload the photo if I want to as well. Some of my dedicated cameras have wifi for transferring photos but it's still a fiddle in comparison.
I don't need an amazing camera but I'm just disappointed how poor the Z ultra camera is, I find I use it like an older camera phone where it was only really handy for capturing serial numbers or information I need to quickly jot down whereas I used the Galaxy Note as a camera a fair bit and while the quality can't match the dedicated cameras it could produce reasonable pictures. I'm seriously considering going for a Note 4 and taking the hit on the screen size to get the better camera, it will be a few months before prices are reasonable so that's time to see if Sony announce anything (which I seriously doubt) or anyone else offers anything interesting with a larger screen.
With regards to the Z Ultra sensor, I'm surprised it is BSI as I thought I'd read initially when considering the phone that Sony had taken an older sensor and rebadged it as Exmor RS which made sense. There's not many sources for the camera module but the few I can find agree with Wikipedia as do sources for the Huawei and the Xperia L, is there any way to verify this in software on a Z Ultra? With regards to photo quality on the Xperia L and the Huawei G6, I am surprised by the positive comments even allowing for them being budget phones and the G6 having a faster lens (F2 rather than F2.4 on the Sony's). Then again some of the reviews of the Z Ultra aren't that hard on the camera either so it's difficult to tell objectively, DXOmark haven't tested it (admittedly I'm not convinced by their testing anyway) nor have I seen any particularly objective testing.
John
Thought this relevant since the nexus 5x has the same camera.
This is a comparison to the iphone 6...looks pretty impressive
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/3ogvrg/nexus_6p_vs_iphone_6_low_light_photos/
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 2
It looks AMAZING!
Woah - impressive. In fact, I dont think I have ever seen such a definitive improvement with anyone doing a camera side by side comparison as this. Sheesh! I wqonder how much of that is HDR trickery?
I doubt the Nexus 5x will do as well without image stabilization. Unless these were taken on a tripod. Apparently the 810 can handle electronic image stabilization but the 808 processor can't.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...-because-the-snapdragon-808-isnt-fast-enough/
Both have some pretty ugly digital noise in the shadows, but you can see the effect of the larger pixels in the clarity of the detail. In the last pair of photos I see some chromatic aberration in the Nexus that's not there in the Apple, but the shadow detail is still better.
Anyone regret getting the 5x over the 6p now?
SysAdmNj said:
Anyone regret getting the 5x over the 6p now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, the 6p is too big, I can deal without EIS
danthepan124 said:
no, the 6p is too big, I can deal without EIS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me either. 6P is too big for me too
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G850A using Tapatalk
SysAdmNj said:
Anyone regret getting the 5x over the 6p now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me the 5x night camera samples and I will tell you.
Seriously speaking, the camera for these types of shots should be very close to the same for 5x and 6p
Hi
Evo_Shift said:
I doubt the Nexus 5x will do as well without image stabilization. Unless these were taken on a tripod. Apparently the 810 can handle electronic image stabilization but the 808 processor can't.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...-because-the-snapdragon-808-isnt-fast-enough/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't do EIS when taking a photograph, it only works on video where each frame can be zoomed in and cropped to match up the position of points in the previous frame. EIS on video doesn't remove blur on each individual frame either due to motion, that will still be there resulting in a lowering of overall captured detail, but each frame lines up better with the ones either side resulting in less visible shake making it easier to watch.
What the 6P is likely doing with pictures is taking several in quick succession, then picking the best one based on contrast detection which is easily done in software, and the picture with the most contrast is the best out of the bunch. This helps, it isn't OIS of course, but you get the picture with the least blurring due to motion or shaky hands, this assumes you do manage to capture a shake free photo in the bunch taken of course.
To be fair, OIS in tiny smart phone camera modules struggles to be effective, as there is a limit to how much movement those tiny optics can make and how many axis of movement they can compensate for.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
Hi
You can't do EIS when taking a photograph, it only works on video where each frame can be zoomed in and cropped to match up the position of points in the previous frame. EIS on video doesn't remove blur on each individual frame either due to motion, that will still be there resulting in a lowering of overall captured detail, but each frame lines up better with the ones either side resulting in less visible shake making it easier to watch.
What the 6P is likely doing with pictures is taking several in quick succession, then picking the best one based on contrast detection which is easily done in software, and the picture with the most contrast is the best out of the bunch. This helps, it isn't OIS of course, but you get the picture with the least blurring due to motion or shaky hands, this assumes you do manage to capture a shake free photo in the bunch taken of course.
To be fair, OIS in tiny smart phone camera modules struggles to be effective, as there is a limit to how much movement those tiny optics can make and how many axis of movement they can compensate for.
Regards
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info on EIS. I've been wondering how it works. The camera/software picking the best pick is called "lucky shot" internally and I think both phones have it, if I read the AMA correctly. I understand that the phone camera module is tiny, but since it has enlarged pixels, and a camera hump which makes it seem that the module is bigger than normal, perhaps OIS isn't needed as much?
SysAdmNj said:
Anyone regret getting the 5x over the 6p now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, but not because of the camera! I had to cancel my 6P order because monies. 5X a compromise in getting a Nexus but I would have enjoyed the more premium phone a lot more. **** happens. Smaller size is a bonus, though.
Hi
0.0 said:
Thanks for the info on EIS. I've been wondering how it works. The camera/software picking the best pick is called "lucky shot" internally and I think both phones have it, if I read the AMA correctly. I understand that the phone camera module is tiny, but since it has enlarged pixels, and a camera hump which makes it seem that the module is bigger than normal, perhaps OIS isn't needed as much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's all down to shutter speed really, the faster the shutter speed the less likely any camera shake is noticeable. Generally a shutter speed of 1/30th to 1/60th sec is considered the slowest speed a camera can be handheld reliably without camera shake ruining too many pictures with typical lenses. A wider angle lens can go slower in shutter speed than a zoom lens where avoiding camera shake is concerned. This is because when you are zoomed in, a small tremor from our hands is amplified to be a much bigger movement, something you will notice if using binoculars. So smart phone cameras have an advantage already as they are pretty wide angle lenses.
Outdoors in the daytime shutter speeds are pretty high, high enough that OIS is probably pointless and having no benefit for photography on smartphone cameras. It's still important for video in daylight, that is because video is recording over time, and not a split second instance that freezes the action like a photo with a fast shutter speed.
In dark situations, the larger pixels of the new Nexus are more sensitive, this means the gain can be turned up higher without destroying the picture with noise, resulting in the ability to speed up the shutter speed. This can mean an indoor scene that might need 1/30th second shutter on another camera, on the new Nexus it can be faster and might be set at 1/60th of second, so resisting camera shake. Of course go a bit darker, the new Nexus needs 1/30th of a second now, another camera might need 1/15th second but that has OIS, so shake becomes evident on the Nexus, but is corrected on the other camera. So the advantages of larger pixels only help in a very specific situation, i.e. they aren't making that big a difference.
The above ignores the effect of the flash of course, add in the flash and that helps freeze action anyway plus allows faster shutter speeds.
I think the main difference not having OIS will make is when you are in poor light, perhaps indoors, and want to take a picture close up of something, for example a document to "scan to Google drive" or a 2D barcode, the close up nature is like being zoomed in so blur becomes more evident.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
In dark situations, the larger pixels of the new Nexus are more sensitive, this means the gain can be turned up higher without destroying the picture with noise, resulting in the ability to speed up the shutter speed. This can mean an indoor scene that might need 1/30th second shutter on another camera, on the new Nexus it can be faster and might be set at 1/60th of second, so resisting camera shake. Of course go a bit darker, the new Nexus needs 1/30th of a second now, another camera might need 1/15th second but that has OIS, so shake becomes evident on the Nexus, but is corrected on the other camera. So the advantages of larger pixels only help in a very specific situation, i.e. they aren't making that big a difference.
I think the main difference not having OIS will make is when you are in poor light, perhaps indoors, and want to take a picture close up of something, for example a document to "scan to Google drive" or a 2D barcode, the close up nature is like being zoomed in so blur becomes more evident.
Regards
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the informative post! I enjoyed reading it.
I was informed that tucking in your elbows to your body when taking a photo or video can help a bit in stabilization. How effective is that? Any other stabilization tips since OIS is gone?
Sent from my Nexus 5
There's already a picture posting thread here....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/general/post-pictures-nexus-6p-t3213937
One is all we need. :good:
Thread closed.
Darth
Forum Moderator
Can camera performance be improved with software tweaks or is it just that Redmi Note 3 uses uses bad hardware/sensor?
I suspect that the problem is related to the sensor/hardware
In poor light conditions the camera is bull****, but in good light is pretty good, idk why because the sensor is f/2.0
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, it's a hardware thingy. Numbers aren't meant anymore. You can see, the camera is 16MP with f/2.0, but it's quality says otherwise.
I compared photos taken with RN3 with Mi4i's, having f/2.0 sensor as well. The photos taken with Mi4i were crisp & clear and with RN3, were noisy & grainy. I guess, Xiaomi didn't use a good sensor to cut down the price.
I wonder if it is upscaling some phones are really like 8 MP but use software interpoling to upscale, so I guess you could try taking a picture at 8 or 13 MP and see if there is any difference - just an idea, I will test when I get some time.
otyg said:
I wonder if it is upscaling some phones are really like 8 MP but use software interpoling to upscale, so I guess you could try taking a picture at 8 or 13 MP and see if there is any difference - just an idea, I will test when I get some time.
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I don't think this is happening. It's not a matter of lack of resolution, it's more to do with sensor quality. Xiaomi wouldn't lie about their cameras.
Guys the pixel size from the kenzo is one of the smallest on the market. In good light the pictures are pretty good. But in more dark areas the pictures are really bad, thats because of the pixel size. Its hardware limited and there aren't many software improvements. So live with it or buy another phone
Can use hardware camera from other device and patch kernel and drivers?
nexuspur said:
Guys the pixel size from the kenzo is one of the smallest on the market. In good light the pictures are pretty good. But in more dark areas the pictures are really bad, thats because of the pixel size. Its hardware limited and there aren't many software improvements. So live with it or buy another phone
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I have no complaints, the pictures look similar to my Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 , perhaps because of the samsung brand cmos ..ok actually I'm not sure what sensor is in the samsung tablet,
I did notice my samsung tablet has way better closeup zoom capabilities though, where the kenzo will start to blur at same range - not a huge deal unless you need to take pictures of flowers or bugs ...etc, perhaps it has a macro mode I missed, haven't had too much time to mess around with the camera - I'll get to it eventually
(Camera)Damn that's saddening.But maybe the little software improvements can give some changes you know...
Everyone should post a sample picture from their device using the stock camera app(don't forget to turn off geo-tagging), to see if the output is similar across multiple rn3p maybe some have better/worse sensors?
I'm comparing it to my old HTC 10 and the quality is night and day. It's blurry/fuzzy, the colors are washed out. It reminds me of the quality of my old cheap webcam from 10 years ago.
Because you didn't turn off all the skin toning and skin lighting junk that's on by default. I was able to shoot selfies with more detail than any model would ever want to see on themselves so I know it isn't the camera's fault.
CHH2 said:
Because you didn't turn off all the skin toning and skin lighting junk that's on by default. I was able to shoot selfies with more detail than any model would ever want to see on themselves so I know it isn't the camera's fault.
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No, everything is disabled. It's terrible quality.
Mudig said:
It's terrible quality.
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My testing and photos say otherwise. Like I said, way more detail in the selfies I've taken than most people who sit for me would ever want to see in a photo. It's not the camera.
Hey, coming from a Nexus 6 ... this is a major improvement.
Okay let's settle this, 5 mp camera is not the best out there, especially compared to iPhone 8's new front facing camera or even Samsung's I guess, although I can only tell based on what I see on internet, as I don't own them. Makes me wonder why it's so hard to create a perfect phone? I mean you did almost everything perfectly right, put a damn 8 mp camera with ois or whatever and hit a home run, why did they choose this front facing camera is beyond my understanding
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
Because the reality is that in order to actually see a doubling of resolution, you actually have to quadruple the megapixel count. So to see twice the detail of a 5mp sensor, you would have to use a 20mp sensor. 20mp at selfie cam size would be insane. The cameras that are using 16mp selfie cameras (such as the HTC U11) are actually using the main shooter from the V30. But to squeeze that extra sensor in with OIS would require more room and produce more heat which would cause issues with amp glow on your other sensors. Digital imaging can be a real P.I.T.A. even with dedicated cameras. Cellphone cameras are a miracle that they even produce anything worthwhile. And that's usually due to being conservative in your approach to what hardware you use.
CHH2 said:
Because the reality is that in order to actually see a doubling of resolution, you actually have to quadruple the megapixel count. So to see twice the detail of a 5mp sensor, you would have to use a 20mp sensor. 20mp at selfie cam size would be insane. The cameras that are using 16mp selfie cameras (such as the HTC U11) are actually using the main shooter from the V30. But to squeeze that extra sensor in with OIS would require more room and produce more heat which would cause issues with amp glow on your other sensors. Digital imaging can be a real P.I.T.A. even with dedicated cameras. Cellphone cameras are a miracle that they even produce anything worthwhile. And that's usually due to being conservative in your approach to what hardware you use.
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Thanks! I already learned something interesting today Is that the reason why the Nokia 8 and the HTC U11 have larger bezels as well in order to have enough room to tackle these technical challenges?
emmanuelw said:
Thanks! I already learned something interesting today Is that the reason why the Nokia 8 and the HTC U11 have larger bezels as well in order to have enough room to tackle these technical challenges?
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Yes, bezels really only exist to hide hardware that they haven't figured out how to downsize or place elsewhere. To get tiny bezels, you have to use tiny camera, earpiece, and proximity sensor hardware or just get rid of them. OIS units make things much bigger as you have to put a ring of motors around the object you're stabilizing. Earpieces/speakers take up a lot of space. I'm guessing Google used the headphone jack space to add more battery and the second speaker, with the second speaker adding more bezel. Proximity sensor is probably the smallest thing in the bezels. Display drivers used to be a big contributor (Moto 360 flat tire was a display driver if I remember right) but with the modern OLED panels they just, er, tuck 'em.
Not passing judgement on the quality of the selfie cam, but I notice that as with the main camera, it too has a "wide angle" setting.
But with only the single camera, necessarily this means that the non-wide setting is digitally zoomed, plus I'd bet there's heavy software correction going on to get rid of all of the wide angle distortion. Perhaps that's asking too much from a 5 MP sensor?
However, I rarely take selfies, and when I do, I'm often trying to squeeze in the other people that are with me, or some scene in the background, so maybe I'll find the native wider angle appealing? Hard to tell in-store with all the florescent lighting.
Mudig said:
No, everything is disabled. It's terrible quality.
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Agreed, turned all that off too and it still looks like crap.
Maybe find something better looking to shoot? The camera does really well.
CHH2 said:
Maybe find something better looking to shoot? The camera does really well.
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Lol wow dude is talking about a selfie this guy says find something better to shoot lmao.
I've never taken an awful photo with the front facing V30 camera. I really don't understand how anyone thinks it's awful.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
From my experience, it only does poorly in low light, that is, compared to 2017 flagships. I don't think it's nearly as bad a many claim it is.
If you look at a lot of of comparisons with the between the likes of the note 8, iphone x and pixel 2, it holds up really well. The biggest difference is really between the pixel 2 and pretty much every other flagship front facer, it has by far the best front facing cam on the market by a good margin imo. The v30 front cam can look really good, is just dosen't produce quite as much detail as the others, and maybe lacks in dynamic range a bit.
If you turn on flash in low light, you see better results. It’s not real flash obviously but I’ve been impressed when it gets it right.
maybe youre ugly lol jk
Why does it show only 5 mega pixel front camera when used a third party camera app?
Is the miui camera just stretching the size?
Or is this happening just for my phone?
Please check and enlighten me.
I saw one user in other post commenting to check the megapixel from google photo but when i check photo detail in google photo ,it doesnt show the megapixel of camera.....
Hope it help
Emo Darkemotion said:
Hope it help
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You have taken this pic with the miui camera right?
Try it with any other camera app..like open camera or any other app.
Yeah you are right
I read that the camera combines input from 4 pixels into a single "ultra pixel" type construct, so you get less noise and ultimately a better shot. So though there are 20 million pixels, they generate 5 million pixels worth of data. That's quite a lot - should be plenty for your needs!
thesoupthief said:
I read that the camera combines input from 4 pixels into a single "ultra pixel" type construct, so you get less noise and ultimately a better shot. So though there are 20 million pixels, they generate 5 million pixels worth of data. That's quite a lot - should be plenty for your needs!
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That may be.
But the sensor is a 5 mega pixel sensor only and they have said that its a 20 mp sensor.
That's what i'm trying to say!
Gamerbhai said:
Why does it show only 5 mega pixel front camera when used a third party camera app?
Is the miui camera just stretching the size?
Or is this happening just for my phone?
Please check and enlighten me.
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I can't understand what this fuss is all about?
Rather than stressing on the specs and megapixels isn't it better to look at the results. For me the selfie quality is more than acceptable specially in this price range and coupled with the latest gen processors, ram, storage etc it becomes great in my opinion and make it a balanced phone.
Manufacturers will always use creative advertising to lure customers
sanjay0501 said:
I can't understand what this fuss is all about?
Rather than stressing on the specs and megapixels isn't it better to look at the results. For me the selfie quality is more than acceptable specially in this price range and coupled with the latest gen processors, ram, storage etc it becomes great in my opinion and make it a balanced phone.
Manufacturers will always use creative advertising to lure customers
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As a customer i need to know what i'm purchasing and even though the quality is good they might have lied to us about the sensor and the miui camera might just stretch the 5 mp photo to a 20 mp photo.
what if they told you its a snapdragon 845 but they give a snapdragon 835..the results would still be good. You would be okay with that?
Gamerbhai said:
As a customer i need to know what i'm purchasing and even though the quality is good they might have lied to us about the sensor and the miui camera might just stretch the 5 mp photo to a 20 mp photo.
what if they told you its a snapdragon 845 but they give a snapdragon 835..the results would still be good. You would be okay with that?
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Well technically u can't say they r wrong. If it is mentioned it is a 20 mp selfie camera and they collate 4 mp x 5 and make it 20, where's the legal problem. Yes morally and ethically it can be questioned like all the mfr recognising benchmarking apps and pushing their system to give false high reading.
It would have been wrong if instead of Sony imxxx sensor on the rear they put in some inferior one.
Imho thisbselfi camera cannot be equates to putting inn835 instead of sd845
Gamerbhai said:
Why does it show only 5 mega pixel front camera when used a third party camera app?
Is the miui camera just stretching the size?
Or is this happening just for my phone?
Please check and enlighten me.
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Well, technically, they are right. The sensor they buy and put in those phones is 20mp. They then, by software at the OS level, "bin" 4 0.8µ pixels together to get bigger "effective" pixels.
Gamerbhai said:
That may be.
But the sensor is a 5 mega pixel sensor only and they have said that its a 20 mp sensor.
That's what i'm trying to say!
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The sensor is not 5mp. It is 20mp as stated in all the marketing guff. The data is interpolated to generate higher quality 5mp pictures.
There may be ways to generate noisy 20mp RAW files but it would be a fool's erand just to get a worse selfie pic 4 times the filesize.
The information I have was just as available to you as it was to me ahead of buying the device. No point sounding all butthurt just because you don't really understand something.
This is the selfie camera sensor
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/image-sensor/mobile-image-sensor/S5K3T1/
Open Dialler and type "*#*#64663#*#* and them select "Check version info" and scroll down you would see camera module used , here is mine
as everyone said its pixel binning
OP you are commpletely wrong.BTW talked to AIDM64 dev, he was saying MI is usinng non standard API, which could be reason for wrong value.It's 20MP physical camera.Through software they do pixel binning and convert back to 20MP.
hrishi420 said:
OP you are commpletely wrong.BTW talked to AIDM64 dev, he was saying MI is usinng non standard API, which could be reason for wrong value.It's 20MP physical camera.Through software they do pixel binning and convert back to 20MP.
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20MP > binning to 5MP > 20MP interpolation
Yeah, I read the same.