OK, first of all, we all know that the S6 has NEVER been known for being a battery life champion. BUT, here's the problem .....
Battery reports relatively consistent decline in charge over time, until it gets down to 1%. At that point, the device still has sufficient charge to run for about one hour with the display on and set at full brightness.
Same on Stock Nougat, L.O.S 14 and L.O.S. 16. Same after full factory re-sets on all three. Same on pull and re-connect battery, which is a factory-new Samsung replacement for the original (not the 7 edge mod)
OBVIOUSLY, there is something not quite right about battery capacity reporting here.
Suggestions?
nezlek said:
OBVIOUSLY, there is something not quite right about battery capacity reporting here.
Suggestions?
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Ion Lithium batteries do not like to be completely discharged, to my knowledge ideally they should always be operated between 20% and 80% of their capacity.
Some laptop's do shut-down them selves when battery reaches 5% to safe guard the battery health.
So, yes, 1% reported by the battery does not actually include the "reserve" charge to prevent damages and, unless you really have to, do not use you phone with battery below 10% and charge it !
Under normal circumstances
enryfox said:
Ion Lithium batteries do not like to be completely discharged, to my knowledge ideally they should always be operated between 20% and 80% of their capacity.
Some laptop's do shut-down them selves when battery reaches 5% to safe guard the battery health.
So, yes, 1% reported by the battery does not actually include the "reserve" charge to prevent damages and, unless you really have to, do not use you phone with battery below 10% and charge it !
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Under normal circumstances, yes, definitely, keeping it between 30% and 80% is ideal, but when the goal is to accurately calibrate the battery / charging monitor circuitry, more accurate results are to be obtained by running the device to the point of battery exhaustion, at which point the reserve capacity designed into all lithium batteries still remains. But this is NOT something to think about doing on a daily basis. An S6 or S6 edge first run to the point of shutdown will actually re-boot but shut down just about immediately thereafter - iterations are not advised. You want it to have just enough left to get it to re-boot and stay running while charging, at which point you can monitor the recharge . Check out the data from Battery University or the support pages for Accu Battery for more details. Trying to use up the built-in safety margin is a fool's errand, and if you've ever seen a mishandled lithium cell turn a vivid red while the device in question melts around it, it should give you a healthy respect (if for some reason you did not have it in the first place) for not messing with or even attempting to mess with the reserve. The problem here is that the "1%" remaining on the charge meter (which is above, beyond, and independent of the untouchable reserve) actually appears to represent about 15% of the rated capacity of the battery, or in this case, over an hour of screen-on run time, and by never running that out, a current-flow-based app like Accu Battery will invariably under-report capacity going forward as a result. Such apps measure how much current is drawn to get from 'x' percent to 'y' percent being reported, but when the amount of current draw to get from 1% to zero is a range of around 300 mAh, for a battery nominally rated at 2,550 (for an S6) or 2,600 (for a S6 edge) as the total capacity, the problem of how accurate the "1%" figure is should be kind of self-evident. I am not willing to see how low a "0%" capacity report can be pushed down. Sanity has to rear its ugly little head at some point, after all.
Many alternative kernels, etc.. claim to address this problem, but I have yet to find one that actually does the job. It is rumored that Samsung service facilities can do a complete reset of the capacity reporting capability, but who knows? Maybe the luck of the draw gave me a dud battery from Samsung as the replacement. :crying:
Related
So I have had mine sitting here all packaged up since tuesday.
And im looking to now actually open it and play with it,
Do you recommend I charge to full when off, or on? Perhaps run it dry and then charge it up?
You used to be told, Charge it for 8 hours before you use it...
That surely can't be true of todays rechargeable battery technology?
[Q] charging and battery damage
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
I assume that the touchpad has a charging circuit that stops it charging when the battery is full, but batteries will always fail after a while regardless. Lithium batteries are best charged often and not let run down too much in between.
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
Troute said:
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
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source? I thought lithium battery had no memory.
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
alexhayuk said:
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
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The dev for Dr.battery's has a thread that states that leaving your Touchpad on the touchstone for long periods of time should not impact the battery. Due to it switching to powering the unit after its charged. Though he is doing some testing on that. Also his app should be updated soon for the Touchpad (available through preware). I am still going to contact HP to discuss this as well. I would hate to damage a non replaceable battery. Will update if I have any new info.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
Troute said:
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
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I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
Besides common aging, a Li-ion battery can also fail because of undercharge. This occurs if a Li-ion pack is stored in a discharged condition. Self-discharge gradually lowers the voltage of the already discharged battery and the protection circuit cuts off between 2.20 and 2.90V/cell.
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Basically through normal use you can probably expect around 250-300 full charge cycles (partial charges only count as partial and add up with other partial charges to be a full cycle) in an average battery pack before it has degraded to 80% of it's original capacity. I don't see anything that point to full discharges being damaging. However storing it for longer periods of time fully discharged can affect life.
ambivalent-one I think the figure of 250-300 charge cycles you've pulled from that page refer to deep discharge cycle tests done by them, personally I'd be very unhappy with that kind of lifespan in a battery in regular usage. The same page you've posted http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries shows a chart of charge cycles versus depth of discharge.
Table 2: Cycle life and depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Charges - Depth of Discharge
500 - 100% DoD
1500 - 50% DoD
2500 - 25% DoD
4700 - 10% DoD
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As you can see a L-ion battery can be made to last nearly ten times longer by keeping the charge level up near max.
Quote from http://www.batterieswholesale.com/damaging_batteries.htm
The Li-Ion cell should never be allowed to drop below about 2.4V, or an internal chemical reaction will occur where one of the battery electrodes can oxidize (corrode) through a process which can not be reversed by recharging. If this occurs, battery capacity will be lost (and the cell may be completely destroyed)
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karan1203 if you reckon the information about deep discharge not accurate, can you provide the results of your own research that shows this?
Just let it die the first time, then charge when under 5%.
karan1203 said:
I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
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Your research must've been incredibly basic in that case. The 2nd result I get when Googling "lithium batteries" gives me the wikipedia page which has a small amount of into on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Look at the "Safety requirements" section for a start.
Also Google "lithium batteries discharge" returns some useful links.
So i was browsing the Nexus S forum and Google+ and found an interesting post by one of Android/Google engineers : https://plus.google.com/u/0/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
Today's myth debunking:
"The battery indicator in the status/notification bar is a reflection of the batterystats.bin file in the data/system/ directory."
No, it does not.
This file is used to maintain, across reboots, low-level data about the kinds of operations the device and your apps are doing between battery changes. That is, it is solely used to compute the blame for battery usage shown in the "Battery Use" UI in settings.
That is, it has deeply significant things like "app X held a wake lock for 2 minutes" and "the screen was on at 60% brightness for 10 minutes."
It has no impact on the current battery level shown to you.
It has no impact on your battery life.
Deleting it is not going to do anything to make your more device more fantastic and wonderful... well, unless you have some deep hatred for seeing anything shown in the battery usage UI. And anyway, it is reset every time you unplug from power with a relatively full charge (thus why the battery usage UI data resets at that point), so this would be a much easier way to make it go away.
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The whole idea of erasing that file having any effect on battery life is pure superstition and wishful thinking. The battery usage UI describes what your device has been doing that has been consuming battery; it doesn't change how the device is using the battery.
You want to "refresh" your battery stats? Charge your phone. When you unplug it again, the device knows it's at full charge (because the battery firmware says so), so the stats tracking treats that as a known milestone for reporting purposes.
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interesting!
I never wipe my batterystatus.bin till now!
I also think it doesn't doing anything but never knew that reson thanks for sharing
Does this mean that calliberating your battery has NO effect? I've seen so many devs themselves recommending it. (ofcourse I might be understanding this whole thing wrong)
myozeus said:
Does this mean that calliberating your battery has NO effect? I've seen so many devs themselves recommending it. (ofcourse I might be understanding this whole thing wrong)
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well, franciscofranco, our kernel 'god', didn't wipe batterystats.bin in his life before. however i always flash things on a full charge just in case
well when you calibrate the battery you only del this file.
this is a one second task
on a macbookpro the calibartion of the battery takes a long time.
so I would not really call this calibration at all.
Thanks for the info...
It'll save time for the people like me ;-)
i never used that option ever
i have very good battery life xd
cekuhnen said:
well when you calibrate the battery you only del this file.
this is a one second task
on a macbookpro the calibartion of the battery takes a long time.
so I would not really call this calibration at all.
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A Laptop battery has many cells, and, once a while, they get different charges among them, that's why you have to fully discharge your laptop battery once a month, to get them all to the same amount of charge.
Since our phones have one cell in their batterys, I don't know if it's really necessary to calibrate them.
myozeus said:
Does this mean that calliberating your battery has NO effect? I've seen so many devs themselves recommending it. (ofcourse I might be understanding this whole thing wrong)
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no. caliberating does have good effects. but caliberating does not mean deleting the file. it means charging full n emptying it full n charging full again...
harshdoshi25 said:
no. caliberating does have good effects. but caliberating does not mean deleting the file. it means charging full n emptying it full n charging full again...
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Actually, lithium ion batteries do not need calibration. Period.
The elements its comprised of have no "cell memory" and the battery firmware is hardcoded with the knowledge of what a full charge should be. Anytime you drain your battery past normal thresholds, it just puts extra wear and tear on the cells and reduces its ability to hold a full charge. By intentionally draining the battery in one sitting, all you're doing is stressing the battery and causing the problem you're trying to correct.
Long story short: Don't calibrate; it just hurts your battery.
Now, if you had a NiMH or an older LiPoly battery, I'd say go right ahead and try to calibrate them if they aren't holding a charge. These types of batteries do have "cell memory" and can often forget what a full charge is.
This information is widely available; it's no secret and I'm not making it up. You can search for yourself or read up on it at Battery University.
Tonhos said:
A Laptop battery has many cells, and, once a while, they get different charges among them, that's why you have to fully discharge your laptop battery once a month, to get them all to the same amount of charge.
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Actually, capacity drops in multi-cell batteries are typically due to voltage drops in certain cells. Draining the battery won't bring them back; you're only going to hurt the capacity of the rest of the cells. The only solution is to replace the defective cells.
Placebo placebo placebo, like I have always said. And like "theanykey" said, do not let lithium ion battery go completely empty, it just reduces battery lifespan. Seriously.
calibrating a Lithium ION battery does have some effect. 9x out of 10 there is some type of protection circuit on the battery that monitors its maximum charge, lowest charge, and wear levels and static values set by the manufacture.
Often times there can be a false wear level (wherein the wear gets set too high, usually caused by disconnecting the battery from a charge at like 95% or running the battery down to below 10%) and the charging circuitry within the battery WONT charge above that level.... to circumvent that improper wear level... a full charge, then FULL drain, then full charge is needed to properly reset those values and gain you extra battery life as the battery gets charged more.
nd4spdbh said:
calibrating a Lithium ION battery does have some effect. 9x out of 10 there is some type of protection circuit on the battery that monitors its maximum charge, lowest charge, and wear levels and static values set by the manufacture.
Often times there can be a false wear level (wherein the wear gets set too high, usually caused by disconnecting the battery from a charge at like 95% or running the battery down to below 10%) and the charging circuitry within the battery WONT charge above that level.... to circumvent that improper wear level... a full charge, then FULL drain, then full charge is needed to properly reset those values and gain you extra battery life as the battery gets charged more.
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Wear level has nothing to do with usable capacity and is not accounted for during charging. It's an arbitrary number that exists solely so people will replace their batteries sooner than necessary. If I recall, its not uncommon for wear level to be calculated by charge cycles. So, by "calibrating", you may actually worsen the wear level.
Also, you do realize that lithium ion batteries never fully discharge, right? Once they do, they're dead.
If you want a technique that actually increases short-term capacity(at the expense of ruining the battery's longevity), look up bump charging.
Hi all,
I'm rooted, S-Off and on Honeycomb with the revolutionary method with CWM and all is working great and has been for over a month now.
I'm just worried regarding the battery. I've seen snippets of info that if the battery fully discharges, i'm screwed.
can anyone please confirm that it is either OK or NOT OK to let the battery run down on the Flyer?
thanks,
Yes, if Li-ion batteries are actually drained to zero voltage, they are useless. However, technically, there are safety measures both in the battery itself (safety circuit) and the device that protect the battery from complete discharge. The device will tell you that zero battery is left, and shutdown. So in most instances, you are protected.
HOWEVER, I have seen plenty of cases on Android devices (and older phones, such as Windows Mobile) where the safety measures don't always kick in properly. People will let there phone/device drain until it shuts off, then they can't get it recharged. In these cases, the voltage is still not actually zero. But if the voltage is below a certain threshold, it won't take a charge from the normal charger. Only way to bring these batteries back, is a special battery meter with a boost function. Or replace the battery. As most of us don't have access to such a meter (and might not help anyway, since the battery is not designed to be removable) you're pretty well screwed.
This doesn't happen often. But if it happens to you, yes you are screwed.
Another thing about full discharge cycles on a Li-ion battery, is that it will shorten the life of the battery in the long term.
Moral of the story, is don't drain the battery to zero intentionally or often. Some people do it to calibrate the battery meter. This is worthless, as the battery meter on phones and tablets are not accurate enough to justify running the battery until the device shuts down. Just drain to 10 or even 20%, recharge to full (leave it there a while) and repeat a couple times, if you want to calibrate the battery meter.
As for normal usage, avoid draining the battery until shutdown. Its fine if it happens accidentally once in a while, we've all done it. But don't let it happen frequently.
This question seems a little (a lot) odd. because naturally we want our battery to get fully charged to get the most stamina out of it.
but i read a while ago that for Li-Io batteries the most efficient charge range are 10%-90% so basically that means the full charge -discharge cycles aren't good for the battery but harmful as it cause them to die faster..
anyway i considered this reading as a good theory until i bought a sony vaio laptop which had a battery preservation feature (it limits the maximal charge to 80% or 50% depending on the option) and for more that a year and a half my battery still performed well (less than 4% degradation) so i thought this was a real deal after all.
still the use cases for a laptop and smartphone are vastly different (the laptop can sit with 50% charge just fine since it will be on charge most of the time while the smartphone has to get the maximum amount of energy to last without a charger)
so is there (or can it be made) an app that can limit the charge (to 80% or 90%)
any help is really welcome
That sounds like an odd theory..
well it sure is
but i read it out a battery maker sheet
if i could find the link i will post it
here's a paper that's not the same as the one i read one year ago
but it hold essentially the same information
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life
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If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles
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Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage
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==> this is the critical information for me: it means that it's not good to get the battery charge to 100% & more to keep at this level; that's why most phones prompt you to remove your charger after full charge
i hope this gets a little bit interesting for suspicious people..
This thread could be of interest: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1257497
Has anyone checked the ROG phone "Battery health" on AccuBattery Pro? Mine is showing Estimated Capacity as 3,548 mAh, Design Capacity 4,000 mAh. I completely discharged then charged to 100% as calibration. Brand new phone.
Mine is showing 3,531mAh after around a week of usage.
Someone should report this on the Asus forums
mine also show 3500mah after 2.5 weeks of use
I have posted this issue on ASUS's Forum
https://www.asus.com/zentalk/thread-249329-1-1.html
Please feel free to add your battery capacity screenshots on their forum so we have a reference for the future
Mine's at 3462 after a little over a month. With a health of 87%
OK, then. We shouldn't be concerned. The proper way to measure battery is more complicated than what AccuBattery does (the proper way involves measuring battery discharge at a controlled rate). Since many of us are getting similar readings on AccuBattery, it's probably that AccuBattery's method isn't accurate.
MichaelCaditz said:
OK, then. We shouldn't be concerned. The proper way to measure battery is more complicated than what AccuBattery does (the proper way involves measuring battery discharge at a controlled rate). Since many of us are getting similar readings on AccuBattery, it's probably that AccuBattery's method isn't accurate.
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Same here: 3536 mAh 88% health with Accubattery first charge out of the box after discharging to 15% following first power up.
Either Accubattery has a problem with our phone, or Asus is ripping us off.
If the batteries were bad, we'd all have different readings.
I am guessing the AI charging might affect the measurement from AccuBattery. However I also don't think the battery capacity is full 4000 mAh. My last phone from Motorola has a 3000 mAh battery on the spec chart, but the battery itself prints 2810 / 3000 mAh (min/typ). From the ROG phone tear down videos, this battery isn't marked though.
From the asus zen forum the only solution the person provided was to bring the device to a service center to get it tested
I maybe wrong however with batteries these days it only ever uses a percentage so that there is redundancy for failure and to preserve the battery life.
iStasis said:
I maybe wrong however with batteries these days it only ever uses a percentage so that there is redundancy for failure and to preserve the battery life.
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Samsung does that. Note 9 is 4000mah but Accubattery says 3800mah on new phones. Every one of them.
Power reserve to not kill the battery early.
Anyway, 3500 mAh seems like one heck of a left over reserve.
Our batteries should last 5 years at least
Same "problem" here, but maybe it is because program has small amount of gathered data about battery usage. I did full discharge and full recharge yesterday, and goz about 3567mAh, but ill try to calibrate battery and use measuring app for longer time to get more accurate results.
Ps: I am using only slow charger to avoid overheating to eliminate battery damaging when recharging
I have not checked my ROG Phone in any 3rd party apps as I have not had a reason to question the 4,000 MAH
It is not a problem, lithium ion battery deteriorate faster if kept fully charge all the time or when discharged to low. Since most people have the bad habit to plug their phone all the time and keep them full for a prolonged period of time, oem have to be creative to fight this. Some will show your battery is charged at 100% while in reality its only charged at 90% .That is what your program most likely reading.
lithium ion should only be charged at 100% before you leave the house, i tend to keep mine between 50 and 90 usually . With quick charge there is no reason to keep a phone plug overnight, 10-20 min before leaving the house is plenty.
I have turned on AI for battery charging and as soon as my Battery reaches 100 it stops charging which is good enough for me to have faith in the charging technology in the phone and battery capacity.
I do leave mine plugged in over night however with the right equipment to check its hard to get a good understanding of whats happening. Theres inbuilt battery health tools so i would always advise using these and going through the features of this over 3rd party jank applications and trust them. Its the only tools Asus are going to support in any diagnostic troubleshooting.
Hi guys, I am returning after some time of usage and charging. After some charging cycles I have to admit my battery capacity is "increasing" - well better say, it is getting used to be charged properly. Now I passed 7 full charging cycles, but after 3rd one every next charge had more mA. I started at 3479mAh with full battery, now I ended with 3711mAh - hope it gets even better (I'll be glad for at least 3800, but who knows?). Everytime I tried to charge only when I was below 3%.
I have to say I am using slow charger with 5V and 400mA current. Battery checker from mobile manager was not detecting any issue with this way of charging nor AccuBattery Pro. I also know, that batteries shall be charged only about 80% of its capacity, but I am still sceptical about that rest 20% so I am charging to max everytime.
Hope I helped...
...another time passed and I am back with another results. After a lot chrging cycles I am stuck at between 3500-3700mAh of total capacity. I was searching around whole internet and found out, that phone manufacturers are "decreasing" battery capacity with SW at 90% of total capacity to prolong battery life and avoid battery wear, because everytime you charge the phone, you think you are charging to 100%, but in real you are charging to 90% only - rest of 10% is "hidden" to save your battery life - due to my calculations and testing it might be true. Anybody else had something different, so we can compare it?
I've just started cycling with accubattery will post when I get some solid data but seems battery has lost some capacity already only had it since November 5
Hellindros said:
I've just started cycling with accubattery will post when I get some solid data but seems battery has lost some capacity already only had it since November 5
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Heres mine so far only a few cycle's in but I've lost quite a bit capacity