Reading all the gps threads at the moment got me thinking. Is it possible to create a program that could access the camera and use the information to provide exposure information?
Maybe even using it to create a light meter type tool?
Not asking if any one wants to do this, just the possiblity? Although if anyone does feel like a challenge!
I think given the nature of the sensor, you'd probably just have to sample the video data from the camera and average into a light level - however, you'd either have to disable or account for the auto-exposure control in the camera driver.
At least using the camera is quite easy from Camera API though!
V
ok, that would be useful! Is it possible to access the exposure meter of the camera?
hey,
I am down for helping. I could defiantly use a light meter in my phone. and im sure other would use it as wel.
Yeah, as semi-pro photographer i never walk out the door without my Hermes and at least 1kg of camera gear, so gadgets like this are always handy.
had a look at the api stuff, it seems that although there are commands to do with setting exposure they only refer to center-weighted or average. Would appear that we'd have to delve deeper than the camera api to impliment something like this...
I searched for this very thing a few weeks ago. There are software programs that will calculate exposure based on ISO, time of day, etc using standard exposure tables but this isn't very useful really. To me, I don't see using the tytn as a general exposure meter being very useful either as it's more accurate to just use your D-SLR's exposure meter.
However.. what WOULD be useful is if I could turn the tytn into a flash meter. My D-SLR can't do that and a pro flash meter is very expensive.
Any comments?
For those that don't know the difference, a flash meter waits for you to fire a strobe then gives you the meter reading based on that flash whereas a regular meter gives you a reading based only on ambient light conditions.
Several things, firstly I think the first step would be to create a standard exposure meter and work from there to see if anything could be done with flash metering.
Also not all my cameras are DSLR's. I have a thing about old cameras that half the time don't have a light meter or it doesn't work.
And finally it would be very education to create a light meter program. If the necessary information could be gathered from the camera there would be no limit to the ways in which the information could be used to calculate exposure. Imagine being able to take an image then highlight a certain area with the stylus and either weight the exposure in favour of that area or choose a "zone" to expose it to.
Still enough dreaming, does any know if enough information can be gathered from the camera?
We would need; an exposure time and a sensitivity setting for the sensor. None of these appear to be controlled through the API.
James
Interesting stuff in cool camera...
Just been playing with coolcamera to see what can be done with a 3rd part camera app. Looks interesting, although there is no way to control the exposure directly, the exposure can be "locked" allowing you to recompose and keep the same exposure.
If a default exposure could be "locked" in then it would be possible to use the resulting image to calculate the exposure.
Ok all, I have spent a lot of time testing the Rezound camera, taking hundreds of pictures of different subjects in different lighting conditions, constantly tweaking the settings, and have figured out a couple of things about the camera and some tricks or even 'necessities' to be able to take really great shots.
The first thing I figured out, which, from comments I've seen on the forum, others have noticed as well, is that the hardware is actually pretty capable, but the software is kind of stupid in many situations. Coming from the Incredible, which to me had one of the best camera software setups I'd ever seen on a phone, the Rezound comes close, but lost some of what it needs to capture those awesome pictures.
So, here I will go over the features, some not-so-apparent tips, and the settings of the camera app to give those of you who want the best picture quality some ideas to help achieve this.
- The main viewfinder, and tap to focus: This first item highlights two good features that the Incredible had that the Rez mysteriously lacks. The first, is while the Rez does allow you to tap anywhere on the screen to focus on that point, it does not allow you to take a shot by holding your finger in that spot for 1-2 seconds like the Inc did. The second, kind of indirect thing, is that it highlights that the Rez does not have any options to change the metering mode. HOWEVER, be aware, that when you tap to focus, the Rez will base it's light metering on whatever area you tapped to focus on, i.e.: tap to focus on a darker object or less lit area in the frame, and the Rez will automatically increase the overall exposure, tap in a well lit area or on a bright object, and the overall exposure will decrease.
Now, here is a trick you can use in conjuction with this feature. This will only work if you turn OFF auto-focus (more on that later). Let's say you've framed your subject, a person who isn't standing front and center, but is off to one side. You tap on them to focus on them, but they happen to be wearing a white T-shirt. The Rez will then lower the exposure of the shot thinking you're focusing on a bright spot. Briefly aim your camera away from the scene then line up your shot again, the Rez will automatically re-adjust exposure based on the overall scene brightness, and your shot won't come out too dark from focusing on your white-shirt-wearing friend.
Ok, now let's go through the settings/options, in order as they are found along the right edge of the viewfinder:
- Scenes... stay away from them!: Seriously, most of the scenes seem fairly useless to me, with a couple exceptions. Most of them do NOT allow changing of any of the picture settings and will use the default exposure/contrast/saturation etc., which for many types of shots are just going to look like crap. This especially applies for any low light/nighttime/indoor shots. Outdoors on a bright sunny day, you can often get good results with the default settings and choosing one of the optional scenes, but again, few of them offer any type of improvement.
Now there are a couple that are useful:
Action burst: only good in very well lit shots, figure outside daylight shots. Runs a very low ISO and fast shutter speed, takes multiple pics in rapid succession. Can definitely help get good pics of your kids/pets playing outside in the daytime.
Panorama: self explanatory. I love that this mode DOES still allow for custom image adjustments/white balance/iso. Can get very impressive results with patience and a steady hand.
Backlight HDR: this one is kind of weird... it doesn't seem to work well as a true HDR, but looking at the name, *backlight* HDR... i.e.: works well when there is bright light behind your subjects. Improves the dynamic range. Lets you take a picture of say, your friend in the foreground with the setting sun in the background, and not have the sun completely blown out or your friend a black silhouette. Shame this one doesn't allow custom image adjustments, again limiting it's usefulness to mostly outdoors/natural lighting.
Close-up: macro mode. The Rez actually has the ability to focus on VERY close subjects, though it can be reluctant to do so and may require several attempts. Again, this mode mysteriously locks out all custom adjustments... a real shame. However, here's another trick for you... you can change to Close Up mode, focus on your subject, then switch back to Auto mode to take your picture. This only works if Auto Focus is DISABLED, it will leave the focus set as is while switching modes, and you get your awesome macro shot.
I have found ZERO use for the other scenes and recommend not wasting your time, YMMV.
- The shutter button: Seems obvious right? Nothing special here.... well hold on, there are a couple small tricks and things to be aware of. The Rez has a very fast shutter speed for a camera phone, tap the shutter button and it takes the pic almost instantaneously. This is great... and bad. The problem is, when you are tapping that icon, you are moving the camera. Your whole hand moves from the simple action of extending your thumb that fraction of an inch. Which will often result in you getting a blurry shot, especially in less-than-optimal lighting.
Three ways I have found to combat this:
1. Some of you may have already figured out that you can tap and HOLD the shutter button, and after 1-2 seconds, it will refocus and take the shot. Additionally, if you have tapped a specific spot on the screen to focus, and then tap and hold the shutter, it will refocus on the same spot you tapped to focus. UNLESS YOU MOVE THE CAMERA. Remember that tip I mentioned for changing the light metering? That won't work here... if you aim the camera away and then back again, and then tap and hold the shutter, it will refocus on the center of the frame. Which brings me to method number two for getting non-blurry shots:
2. The two-hand, two-step. Holding the camera with both hands, use your left to tap to focus anywhere on the screen. AS SOON AS YOU TAP WITH YOUR LEFT, during that brief moment that the camera is refocusing, tap the shutter with your right and release, then hold still as possible. This basically delays the shot by a fraction of a second, as it won't snap the pic until it has finished focusing. By then you have pressed and released the shutter, and are hopefully holding still, and getting your non-blurry pic.
3. Use the self timer. This won't work with kids-at-play, but will work with any other subject that will hold still for you. Set the self timer to two seconds. This lets you tap and release the shutter, hold your breath, do whatever you have to do to get as still as possible. This also works if you tap and hold the shutter button.. it will automatically refocus, then count down the two seconds and shoot. This can be used in combination with some of the above described tips
- The flash: mostly self explanatory. One thing to note, enabling the flash seems to speed up the shutter a bit. In other words, if you have an antsy/fast moving subject (kids!), enabling the flash, even when it's bright enough not to need it, can result in a faster shot and less motion blur of your moving subject. I'll discuss a little more about using the flash even at times that the amount of lighting doesn't call for it in the white balance section. There are times it's best to turn it off in dim lighting as well. The Rez sensor actually does pretty good in low light and can do without the flash in many circumstances. Experiment. The flash can also help with white balance and color (more on this later), as well as causing the camera to use a lower ISO. The downsides are that it often causes red-eye (why does such a high end camera phone not have a feature for getting rid of red eye is beyond me), and that it will often blow out subjects, especially closer subjects. This can be mitigated with tap to focus or adjusting the overall exposure setting. Experiment.
Now we get the settings menu, and each item you can adjust therein
Self timer has already been discussed, and other than that little trick, it's use is self evident, so, moving on to Image Adjustments:
- Exposure: self explanatory. Increases/decreases brightness of the overall scene. I find that in any dim or artificially lit shots, the Rez tends to over-expose, so I often turn this down to -1. Use this in conjuction with tap to focus to get the brightness just right. Remember though, the Rez has a fairly narrow dynamic range. If the exposure is too high, whites will be blown out, which is almost impossible to fix with post processing. It's almost always better to go to low rather than too high. Better to have a dark shot, which you can then bring the brightness up without blowing out the light colors.
- Contrast: adjusts the "difference" between the light areas and the dark areas. Lower contrast brings out the detail in darker/shaded areas, but can make the scene look washed out or faded. Higher can result in striking shots, but dark areas will become darker and often lose all detail. 95% of the time I leave this setting at 0.
- Saturation: this is one of the settings I adjust the most often. Low/artificial light seems to confuse the Rez and often results in the saturation getting WAY too high. This setting is also directly affected by the white balance setting, and I find if I adjust one I usually have to adjust the other. More often than not though I am turning this DOWN to -1. Occassionally, I do have to turn it up to +1 but this is rare (certain fluorescent lighting situations).
- Sharpness: TURN IT DOWN!! The Rez WAY oversharpens pictures by default. I turn this down to -2 and recommend everyone do the same. SOME times I turn it to -1 (if I'm taking pics of something with text, for instance), but for almost everything I leave it at -2. This will sometimes result in soft shots, but this is another thing that is much easier to fix in post-processing than a pic that is oversharp. Lowering the sharpness also lessens the noisiness of lower light pics.
- White Balance: This is the other setting I adjust fairly frequently. The Rez is retarded when it comes to compensating for artificial lighting. Incandescent lit shots will often have a yellow or orange tint to them, fluorescent shots will be green tinted. Switching to the appropriate white balance for these types of lighting will usually correct this, but often necessitates adjusting the Saturation setting as well. For Incandescent especially, I find I usually have to turn the Saturation down to -1, for Fluorescent, I SOMETIMES have to turn it up to +1
Now, using the flash seems to "fix" the auto white balance in artificial lighting, and the saturation as well. In other words, if you turn the flash on, or if the lighting is dim enough that the camera uses it in auto, you will generally want the white balance set to auto and the saturation at 0. Sometimes, it's better to use the flash on artificial lighting even when it's bright enough already, so you don't have to struggle to get the right white balance and saturation. Most pics I've taken with the flash seem to come out "just right", as long as nothing gets blown out.
- ISO: Auto works for bright or natural lighting, but the Rez loves to default to way too high of an ISO for mid or low lighting, resulting in very noisy pics. This is suprising given the backside illuminated sensor which is supposed to alleviate the need for a high ISO in low light. And it somewhat has. Depending what you are shooting, you can usually get away with ISO as low as 200 in low light or indoor lighting, and get a MUCH nicer, MUCH less noisy pic. But if your subject is moving around, or you can't keep your hands still, you will likely get blurry shots... it's a trade off and you have to figure out what you can get away with. Either way, in low light shots, it's better to manually pick an ISO when possible and convenient to get less noise.
- Resolution: self explanatory. I notice almost no difference between 5 MP and 8 MP shots, quality wise, when viewed on a 19" laptop monitor, so consider that if you would like to save some space on your SD card by going with 5 MP. I leave it at 8.
Review duration: Here is a tip that can a) help you get better shots of moving subjects (kids!), b) get the same effect as the "Action Shot" scene mode BUT be able to use your custom image settings, and c) show smug Galaxy Nexus owners that they aren't the only ones with "zero shutter lag". Simply set review duration to "no review". You can shoot photos in rapid succession with very little delay between shots. When I'm shooting my four year old, I generally take 3-5 pics in a row and usually end up with at least two good, blur free shots. It's easier to take several quickly, review them later and delete the ones you don't want, then to take one, look at it, see that it's no good, take another one, get frustrated as your kid got impatient and won't hold still.... etc etc.
Storage, wide-screen, geotagging, all self explanatory
- Auto-enhance: leave this OFF, it ruins pics past the point of saving. It can completely muddy fine details in pics, it doesn't eliminate noise, it makes things look smudged... turn it off... please... offfffffffffffff... if you really think it helps, you can always apply it AFTER the pic is taken and saved... I'll cover this in a minute.
- Auto-focus/face detection: For reasons discussed above, I usually leave this off. It works fine for center focused shots, but limits some of the things you can do to enhance your shots. Face detection is hit or miss, and you can do better just tapping to focus on your subjects face.
Shutter sound is self explanatory. Grid is preference, I leave it on, helps to line up shots.
A note about AFTER you have taken your picture: most of you probably already know this, the Rez allows you to do some things with the pic AFTER it's saved. In addition to the usual cropping and rotating, if you tap the pic, then tap Edit, then Effects, there are options to adjust the look of the picture, including the Auto Enhance feature that you have HOPEFULLY disabled in the settings menu before taking your shots. There are also several frames you can choose from to make your pics more interesting. The best thing here is that if you apply an effect or frame after the shot is taken vs. before, it will save a second copy, leaving the first, unaltered copy there as well.
Another kind of side note... I've had great results using third party camera software. I LOVE Vignette, it is VERY feature rich, and can get much better shots than the stock app. It has many more settings, including some of the 'missing' ones that I mentioned at the beginning of this post, such as the ability to change metering modes. It also allows much finer adjustment of the custom image settings, exposure, saturation, sharpness, etc. It has many more scene modes to choose from, and has a 'steady shot' mode, which will not let the camera snap the pic until you are holding relatively still... this eliminates 98% of the blur that results when you tap the shutter button and the shot is snapped immediately. It is in the market and I highly recommend it.
Well, I hope this has been helpful for anyone who has taken the time to read it. Don't forget to hit the thanks button if it did you any good. The hardware on the Rez is pretty damn good, the software just ... needs some help... to get the best out of it.
Nice, thanks. I'm going to really play with the camera this week and will take all of this into consideration.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk
Biggest thing I found is that auto white balance is rarely ever right. I always find myself making incandescent my default for most indoor photos.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
dude, i read that entire post, and i thank you for writing it all out.
i bought camera 360 ages ago, but i can't find it in the market anymore! i used to just load it from titanium on my inc, but it's just gone now..wtf!? i paid for that app! anyone have any ideas
Camera 360 is another good one. Two things wrong with it on the Rezound: 1) adjusting the exposure does nothing, 2) it only displays on 2/3 of the display. But it works well and takes good pics.
Another good app is HDR Camera +, which does much better HDR than the stock app
Very well written post. Thank you. I think everyone, including people who shoot with a DSLR like myself, can benefit from some of the tips that you brought up.
So I might as well give up on that for this phone until it's put back into the market then huh?
bast525 said:
Camera 360 is another good one. Two things wrong with it on the Rezound: 1) adjusting the exposure does nothing, 2) it only displays on 2/3 of the display. But it works well and takes good pics.
Another good app is HDR Camera +, which does much better HDR than the stock app
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Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
One of the best options using Vignette is you can shoot the pic using either the search or the volume buttons.
~John
ok here is the odd thing about vignette AND 360.... last I checked, the FREE versions of both apps were still in the market, but the PAY versions were not....
Both can still be found elsewhere in their full versions.
Thanks for taking the time for typing this out.
Edit: Does Vignette not take as high resolution pictures as the stock camera software? To above post the pay version is in the market.
Hmm nvm seems the picture I took with Vignette is 3264x2448 vs 3264x1840 from stock.
in vignette, how can get full screen 16:9 shots by going into the "frames" drop down. By default it does full resolution 4:3 shots
Also, when possible, use some type of stabilization - a table top, lean against a wall, use timer and hold breath, whatevs. Movement is the enemy of sharpness. As for fast moving subjects, since the shutter speed seems to be static, your stuck trying your luck with flash and hoping for the best. Usually 1/500 is the minimum to capture motion without blur, I don't know what it is on this phone as it uses an electronic shutter
As for the "flash", do not use for subjects or scenes (e.g. landscapes) that are far away. It is pointless beyond the effective range of the flash (which varies based on ambient light) and can throw off the "cameras" metering. If your subject is backlit (lots of light behind them), turn your flash on (and hope its enough).
ISO - use the lowest setting possible to get the shot. ISO is the sensor's sensitivity to light. The higher the ISO, the more sensitive to light it is (meaning you can take photos in a darker settings) BUT the more digital noise your photo will have. Or go the lazy way and let the camera figure it out for you (auto). I suppose on a sensor this small, it doesn't matter too much.
"The best camera is the one you have with you."
On the subject of stillness... I agree, any help you can find should be taken advantage of. For one, I ALWAYS hold the phone with both hands when taking photos. And yes, if there is anything I can lean or rest on, I use it.
My wife purchased a cell phone tripod off Amazon, but the mount is too small for the Rez... I looked at a few and they all seem sized for the iPhone and nothing larger...
Thank you for the write up. Just got Vignette, is the scene change to steadyshot the only change you would make? Cheers!
I do take 98% of my pics using steadyshot also, I turn the exposure and saturation down one notch. Leave sharpness all the way down. I turn the jpeg setting to "fine" from "super fine", which drops the file size of one 8 MP photo from 4-5 MB down to 1-2, with no discernible drop in picture quality on my laptop screen. I use some of the effects and frames sometimes. I tend to usw center weighted light metering vs average but it depends what you're shooting.
Updated the first post with some tips on disabling review duration to take shots rapidly.
bast, do you think it's worth it to get that camera FX 10 cent app today? have you tried it?
jayochs said:
bast, do you think it's worth it to get that camera FX 10 cent app today? have you tried it?
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did you even read your question? is it worth it to get a 10 cent app.
i think this might be the end of the internet.
Very well written, thanks!
argh no flaming please.... I worked hard on this post and don't want to see it go to crap.
yes I tried camera fx and I was not impresses, uninstalled it five mins later. It is very limited on options compared to stock or vignette. There are no adjustments for exposure, sharpness, saturation, etc. No tap to focus. It is not an app for people who want to maximize the camera potential. Stick with stock, vignette, or to a lesser extent, camera 360.
Hi.
Like some that bought this phone I found the out of box experience on the camera a bit underwhelming and the pro app very confusing, after a bit of reading and searching and fiddling I've got it setup so I'm very happy with the results. It's not a low light or HDR monster like some camera systems but you can get some pretty nice results easily if the settings are tamed back a bit. So I thought I'd share what works for me.
Over the last few years I've had OnePlus 7t pro, LG V50, Xiaomi K20 Pro / Poco F1, HTC U12+/ HTC 10 and had a reasonable GCam on all of them and going to the Sony system was a bit of a culture shock, but the small form factor, flagship specs, SD card and 3.5mm socket are what I wanted.
BTW, I am not a Photographer or an expert by any means so if I've got anything wrong I'm happy to correct, or if anyone has more Tips and Tricks please post to this thread.
To start.
Use the Pro app AUTO mode for most pictures. It gives more consistent results than the standard camera app and can easily be set as the default.
Go to the basic camera app settings, scroll down to Launch with camera key and set to Photography Pro, this means when you hold the shutter button it'll start the Pro app by default not the Basic app.
Double click the power button and you can set the Camera app as default, that way both apps are easily accessible with the screen off, useful for video.
Make sure the Case you use allows for the 2 step shutter button, the first case I had made the button really stiff so 99% of the time I was just clicking for a shot not locking the settings with a half press.
Open up the Pro app and press the Disp option until you have the Histogram and viewfinder showing. There's plenty of Youtube videos explaining what a histogram is and how it works, it's no guarantee of a great picture but it will be an indication of a bad one.
Don't get too bogged down in all the options, I spent weeks tweaking Exposure/ISO/Shutter speeds without really understanding what I was up to and if you do understand all those options I guess this guide isn't for you!
My settings for consistent results, check out the screenshot in this link
Xperia 5 II XQ-AS52/XQ-AS62/XQ-AS72 | Help Guide | Launching Photo Pro (Photography Pro)
Drive Mode - Single Shooting
Focus Mode - Continuous AF
Focus Area - Centre
Face/Eye AF - On
JPEG
Aspect Ratio - 4:3 (12mp)
With those settings you can point, preload by half a click and get a reasonable shot most of the time. With the fancy auto multi focus wide settings I was always getting blurred pictures of my dog when he's running around due to the camera trying to focus on him then picking a random object in the frame so by the time I clicked for the picture it was a mess.
When you have a half click loaded, move the centre box around and see what the preview and Histogram is showing, if there's a hard line hitting the top at either the left or right hand side it's either too dark or too light. By moving the centre of the image slightly the camera should adjust the exposure slightly to stop the clipping.
The only other setting I tend to play with is S, click the AUTO button and scroll down to S mode. This allows changing of the shutter speed. This way you can capture faster moving objects in good light or slow down the capture speed in bad light. Here's where the Histogram is useful because if you set the Shutter too high, bright sky will clip and a bright blue sky will be white or you'll end up with a dark fuzzy picture. It's not worth going above 320 or below 80 unless it's in exceptional conditions.
I've attached some recent samples below.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for the detailed writeup. You're more on your way to be a photographer than you give yourself credit for...
Thanks! I learned more from this than reading a truly terrible book about the subject
I always use PhotoPro-Auto.
asvaberg said:
Thanks! I learned more from this than reading a truly terrible book about the subject
I always use PhotoPro-Auto.
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That's a great picture.
And you're welcome, I'm a bit tired of seeing posts saying how bad the camera is on this little phone. It does require a bit more work than a point and click phone but it's so worth it.
Nice reading and I also agree: this phone has a good camera and we just need to understand it.
IMHO the colour calibration seems to be very good.
Even in "point-and-shoot" mode with the default camera I usually get good results.
(true, I already got some surprises with light reflections at night)
After reading this post, I took the phone and turned all lights out in my inner room where I was.
Pointed to my Buddha friend and done. No much thinking. The whole process between grabbing the phone, turning lights out, taking the picture and coming back to my laptop to write this took less than 90 sec.
PS: I don't master any photography technique, and therefore I rely on the device setup and common sense.
I agree with the color calibration. It's very close to my Sony A7RIV when I've taken comparison pictures...at least comparing RAW files in Lightroom. One of my biggest frustrations with the P30 Pro was the colors of the RAW files are very off using the main sensor, and no software can easily fix it. The 5 II files are easy to work with and give good results.
Enjoyed the OP but I use the Program Mode. I live in the tropics in a mountain value and I use the EV control a lot. The rest of my settings are usually the same as given in the OP.
Here is a link to a YouTube video from a photographer who makes it quite clear that the camera system on the Xperia 5 II is not a "professional grade" system but has a place for people who enjoy producing photos.
I just wanted to add that every digital camera I've bought, stand-alone or phone, since 1998 has been defective....for 10 days to two weeks. Once I'd used it for a few hundred photos and read manuals and tutorials the cameras improved markedly.