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Hello everyone,
Im an IT guy for the company i work for and my boss the exchange admin is looking at some software to secure android phones. (Rooted ones) He found this software called (air-watch). i cannot post the link in here becasue im too new lol. i can email it if google does not work. Can someone smarter them me take a look and see if this means the end for all of us with rooted phones in the company. Im not sure how rooting phones affects how they are seen from exchange but i love my Roms and wifi teather
software can be found at http://www.air-watch.com/platforms/android/index.html click on android on the top
anyone? help pls.... im worried now haha
dont worry about it
I'm familiar with the company and right now they don't have a way to detect rooted phones.
nice. so how does the software work? there is no good info on the website and you are the 1st person ive talked to that has herd of it
sgtagem said:
software can be found at http://www.air-watch.com/platforms/android/index.html click on android on the top
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a way for the company you are working for that supplied your android based phone to control the content and how it operates. It is basically security software. This will not effect your personal phone. Just your company supplied phone.
mistere372002 said:
Its a way for the company you are working for that supplied your android based phone to control the content and how it operates. It is basically security software. This will not effect your personal phone. Just your company supplied phone.
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Click to collapse
So if my phone is rooted right now will this software prevent me from connecting to exchange or will it just force me to use things like a screen lock pin code? I dont mind locking my phone with a password like my old blackberry i just dont want to lose root rights one my phone. free wifi teather overclocking ect is sooo nice
From the sounds of it, you don't own your phone anyway.
I own the phone the company took my plan over to save me some cash. But use it for exchange email so... I will be affected. Thanks for the input everyone
Sent from my Evervolv Droid
AirWatch
The company I work for is getting AirWatch as well. I am also one of the admins, so I will be the one setting ups the system. I am interested to see how of if the root is detected on my EVO 3d.
I will post as our pilot goes on.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
BUMP
Any update on this? Air-watch does detect rooted phones, tested this out.
From their product page:
Define approved Android operating systems and models....
and
Detect Android devices that have been rooted or un-enrolled from the system.
If they decide to approve only stock ROM's, you're out of luck. Plus they have the ability to do a bunch of other stuff I wouldn't want my company doing on my personal phone like seeing what apps are installed, tracking via GPS, encrypting the SD card, and being able to remotely lock and wipe it. If I were you, I'd think about paying my own wireless bill and telling the company to stuff that product.
macellaio said:
From their product page:
Define approved Android operating systems and models....
and
Detect Android devices that have been rooted or un-enrolled from the system.
If they decide to approve only stock ROM's, you're out of luck. Plus they have the ability to do a bunch of other stuff I wouldn't want my company doing on my personal phone like seeing what apps are installed, tracking via GPS, encrypting the SD card, and being able to remotely lock and wipe it. If I were you, I'd think about paying my own wireless bill and telling the company to stuff that product.
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Click to collapse
Alot of companies are doing this and I have to agree with it. Company based info is too sensitive to be trusted to a rooted phone. Mainly with alot of people just installing apps without thinking about the permissions the apps use.
If you want to keep your phone where you have control then take the bill back over and let them issue you a company device.
zelendel said:
Alot of companies are doing this and I have to agree with it. Company based info is too sensitive to be trusted to a rooted phone. Mainly with alot of people just installing apps without thinking about the permissions the apps use.
If you want to keep your phone where you have control then take the bill back over and let them issue you a company device.
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Click to collapse
Yes -- All the big companies are doing it... where the sticker comes in is if the device rooted, is the device more at risk than being normal stock rom? More of a policy question at this point.
What muddies the water even more is if manufacturers are allowing the boot loader to be unlocked, then where is the problem with having a rooted phone.
Need to confirm with AW, will have a call with them later next week to determine how they are checking if the device is 'compromised'.
amryan said:
Yes -- All the big companies are doing it... where the sticker comes in is if the device rooted, is the device more at risk than being normal stock rom? More of a policy question at this point.
What muddies the water even more is if manufacturers are allowing the boot loader to be unlocked, then where is the problem with having a rooted phone.
Need to confirm with AW, will have a call with them later next week to determine how they are checking if the device is 'compromised'.
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Click to collapse
Yes a rooted phone is more at risk as it gives all apps the ability to have admin access. With a stock rom no one has admin rights to your phone.
zelendel said:
Yes a rooted phone is more at risk as it gives all apps the ability to have admin access. With a stock rom no one has admin rights to your phone.
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You have to grant this access...is it really that much different when you install an app and give it those permissions?
In my eyes no... but there are better ways to protect the data from exfil....
amryan said:
You have to grant this access...is it really that much different when you install an app and give it those permissions?
In my eyes no... but there are better ways to protect the data from exfil....
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OK but really think about it for a min. It is not that hard to bypass it if a hacker wanted to. That is how the virus apps do it. All then do is wait for the command to pop up and then make the system think you granted it.
Any word on how they detect root and if it can be bypassed?
Airwatch is being deployed at my "friends" company and so far several people have been black-listed from having rooted phones. Supposedly one of them had Super User installed, but there was no prompt from Airwatch saying it wanted root permisions.
How is airwatch detecting that phones have been rooted?
Is is possible to hide the fact that a phone has been rooted? (What I need is a root kit for my rooted phone.)
Modified_Grays said:
Airwatch is being deployed at my "friends" company and so far several people have been black-listed from having rooted phones. Supposedly one of them had Super User installed, but there was no prompt from Airwatch saying it wanted root permisions.
How is airwatch detecting that phones have been rooted?
Is is possible to hide the fact that a phone has been rooted? (What I need is a root kit for my rooted phone.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's checking for certain files, su, superuser. unrooting might be the only option... you can set the agent to poll whenever you want, so it could check every 5 mins.
http://androidforums.com/droid-x-all-things-root/207397-good-enterprise.html
check that link out... same concept... kind of annoying... I would be interested in a VM solution for my evo 3d and just run airwatch from a separate instance (dont think this exists yet)
Just days after my team Unlocked the IROM, Samsung is selling a "Developer Edition". This developer edition will be more secure than the exploit unlock my team provides.
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I605MSAVZW
I find this really funny. I will also call those who pay for this device a sucker.
heck yea
Why would anyone in their right mind fork that kind of money over, when Adam Outler has opened this bad device up for you, you are right, they are a sucker if they fall for this.
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
imnuts said:
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
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none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
AdamOutler said:
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
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Click to collapse
They can collect unlocked data, but they can't say "these people wanted an unlocked device only". By purchasing the phone directly from them, they have hard numbers to provide. Also, how is the possibility of an OTA limiting future radios, etc. based on bootloader version not valid? Are they likely to do it? No, but it is still a possibility. And why would not buying it from Verizon be an invalid reason? You seem to hate them for locking it, so why would you buy it directly from them to help support them further in locking the device? I'd rather have whatever profits there are go only to Samsung.
imnuts said:
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
The way I see it, Samsung wants the phone unlocked from the start. They know that they can appeal to a greater Android crowd by letting it be easily unlocked, as it is on virtually all other flavors of the phone. When it comes to Verizon however, they have no say in the matter initially. It must be locked. This is the same for pretty much all other phone OEM's on Verizon as well. Hell, my old Droid X STILL doesn't have an unlocked bootloader.
By selling a "developer edition" that works on Verizon, it's kinda like they're sticking the finger back at Verizon while simultaneously making direct profit. Since they are the ones who made this beautiful device, I have no problem with this. They definitely deserve it. And they could opt to just not sell us these unlocked devices anyway, leaving us in the dust to deal with waiting on OTA's and never being able to truly update our device with custom firmware.
Either way if it weren't for you Adam and your team, this would be our only option. It's amazing to me that you guys were able to break Verizon's grasp on our devices and really stick it to them. As someone who has endured the annoying locked bootloader for a long time with my Droid X, it makes me grin ear to ear seeing their attempts to control our devices be foiled in just a couple of weeks after release.
Muchos gracias friend. And a big OORAH to you.
Old MuckenMire said:
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
ihavenewnike said:
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the problem is not samsung its verizon...samsung does not encrypt bootloaders. verizon requests the device to be locked and samsung must comply in order to manufacture devices for that network.
imnuts said:
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running deodexed stock, is there anything I or a developer can do that would block any OTA, and block the notification and nagging that would happen?
Thanks again man!
delete
droidstyle said:
delete
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Click to collapse
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
phind123 said:
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
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Click to collapse
nah... the download counters speak for themselves.
1500 so far.
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
crazydad said:
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The required source release will be the same for both.
Old MuckenMire said:
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you see sdm 1.0 in your apps then yes freeze it! I believe on beans rom its already removed. I could not remember if it had it stock, that's why I deleted my post...however I do know it was there on the GS3 stock.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Killer Turtle said:
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
It doesn't say that anywhere in the specs...
I havent even gotten the phone yet, it's in the mail. Thankfully i came in here to read and now i know to block ota if i want any hope of getting root.
But it leaves me wondering why do they hate rooting so much? Wireless tether is legal on Verizon and most anything else i can think of would hurt google and app devs before verizon...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
it's not just verizon. the sprint s4 has the same going on. at least according to someone i know that has one. it supposedly has something to do with the knox crap and possibly the lojack stuff they're trying to add to the phones.
i haven't bothered to confirm any of this. just got it from a bit of skimming. work's picking up a bit so i haven't been able to read as much.
It is all about security. Rooted phones do not work well with secure environments. I mean if you really think about it. With the right set up any app can be given root permissions without the user even knowing.
Wayne Tech Nexus
It also voids warranty. If I were selling a product and the consumer rendered the device useless through mods and what have you, I wouldnt want to warranty it either. One of many reasons.
SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
I can totally understand it---there could be a lot of headaches for the carrier. That said, I wish Verizon would not block it so much as give the user a Verizon-approved way to root with copious warnings about all the terrible things that can happen. It seems to me that would be sufficient.
Macknzie said:
I can totally understand it---there could be a lot of headaches for the carrier. That said, I wish Verizon would not block it so much as give the user a Verizon-approved way to root with copious warnings about all the terrible things that can happen. It seems to me that would be sufficient.
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Yeah but that brings its own worries. They did give at least an option. The Dev Edition.
zelendel said:
Yeah but that brings its own worries. They did give at least an option. The Dev Edition.
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Click to collapse
Very true, and it's pretty clear from the name that you're getting something different.
It also presents a problem with technical support. A standardized system is far easier to troubleshoot than one wroth dozens of unknown variables.
Also, the OP is only partially correct regarding wireless tether. While Verizon cannot block users from using third party tether apps, they also have the FCC's explicit blessing to require a separate tethering fee for unlimited plan holders
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
HTC lets you unlock the bootloader via a code on their website specific for the individual phone's serial number. One clicks to waive the warranty to get the unlock code, and anyone can boot the phone into bootloader mode to see "unlocked" or "tampered" displayed. That means no warranty.
Verizon was OK with it for HTC phones.
$$$$
Its all about the money they lose so much money as a company.. even though they make billions monthly they still are all about making the consumers pay more
For the s4 its all about security. Samsung is trying to get into the corporate phone market. They released this new locked down bootloader to make companies feel all warm and fuzy. My company allows me to access my work email on my phone but to do so I have to have the phone encrypted with no root.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
onfigTr which
help...
Verizon Blocks Users from Root
Yeah, I'm having that issue myself. I have rooted my previous devices but just purchased a Motorola Turbo from VZW which is LOADED with bloatware that won't go away. So, I thought I'd go the "decent" route and see if they may be nice in return and help me unlock my phone. Holy cow, you'd think I was trying to hack Fort Knox or the Fed! The Mod at the Verizon Community Website summarily deleted my question regarding this. Well, admittedly, I probably was stupid for doing that but, again, I thought I would be "nice" about it but they decided to get nasty and tried scaring me by tell me I was "in violation of FCC regulations and my terms of service" if I even attempted to root my device and he was going to "open an investigation into my "hacking" activities." Wow, talk about a Mod with delusions of god-hood! Okay, illegal to root MY phone, which I PAID for. So, I called VZW CS (I hate talking) and explained my issue and got a complete dolt (as expected) who didn't have a clue even what the Verizon Community Website was...fact is, my only desire is to remove the damn bloat-ware, ads, etc. and increase the battery life. This phone has such potential and they lock it down to such extremes, it's really disappointing. Finally, I got fed up and asked for her supervisor, who was not much better. Supposedly, she is escalating this to Tier 3 Support. Permission to have root access to MY own phone. I was a sys admin for 25+ years and never had to ask permission for root access for my computers...
Suggestions?
qballrail said:
Suggestions?
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Click to collapse
Buy a Nexus 6p or 5x.
A little late for that.
I thought the new Droid Turbo just got root and bootloader unlock... I think it was RootJunky or DroidModderX who just put up a video on that...
That said, like smitchell said, it's Samsung trying to capture the corporate market from Blackberry, and Verizon wanting money from users, combining to screw over people like us who want to flash custom software.
qballrail said:
A little late for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. They're still being sold.
mike.s said:
No. They're still being sold.
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Click to collapse
You misunderstand, Friend. I meant that I had purchased my Motorola Turbo too recently, so the prospect for purchasing another would be impossible at this time.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
XxD34THxX said:
I thought the new Droid Turbo just got root and bootloader unlock... I think it was RootJunky or DroidModderX who just put up a video on that...
That said, like smitchell said, it's Samsung trying to capture the corporate market from Blackberry, and Verizon wanting money from users, combining to screw over people like us who want to flash custom software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, Verizon has made it impossible to do, unless you want to pay $20 for mofo, and that's no guarantee. Where is this video?
Thanks!
Verizon is evil. I have a Galaxy Note Pro from them that I can't even put linux on due to the locked bootloader and kernel without chroot. It's a sad state of affairs. The government should have laws for giving consumers rights to use their devices as they wish
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
qballrail said:
You misunderstand, Friend. I meant that I had purchased my Motorola Turbo too recently, so the prospect for purchasing another would be impossible at this time.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
From what I've read, Verizon has made it impossible to do, unless you want to pay $20 for mofo, and that's no guarantee. Where is this video?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfCtvYawVc
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
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I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
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Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
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Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
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Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
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You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
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No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.
MOS claims that they support Mate20Pro Chinese model. Has anyone tried this?
https://ministryofsolutions.com/huawei-bootloader-unlock-service-all-new-models-new-firmwares
Thinking of buying a Chinese version since the price is more reasonable and I am going to China next week. But I think Magisk or global ROM is needed for using Google Pay, otherwise, it fails on adding credit cards.
I am just wondering if it is possible or there is another way to use Google Pay?
The Chinese ROM gets updates much more quickly and often partly because they don't have to be certified by Google but because the ROM is uncertified Google Pay won't work. Getting Google Pay to work on an uncertified ROM requires root so it isn't possible on this phone.
Huawei Mate 20 PRO of Chinese Origin
Hi Maxzhx, I have been using the bought in China LYA-AL10 Mate 20 Pro with 256/8 ROM/RAM in Dubai (UAE) since last one month. From screenshot settings, I can see the Google Pay is available, however, I use Samsung Pay here so I have not activated.
Buying a custom unlock would be cute, but what then? No one is going to develop anything for this phone. You would have the most crude 'root' there is, with all the security stuff shut down that comes along with it. Sadly, unless a full bootloader unlock is discovered (hopefully one that works with all variants) there wouldn't be any point because you wouldn't have a properly setup root to begin with, you certainly wouldn't have Magisk, and it would be utterly pointless to run custom roms because NONE of the proprietary hardware goodies would be supported.
That's the price we pay for this phone, and we better be happy with it. So far, I'm not going into seizures over not having SU, but honestly I find the phone kinda boring overall so I don't really care.
kaibosh99 said:
Buying a custom unlock would be cute, but what then? No one is going to develop anything for this phone. You would have the most crude 'root' there is, with all the security stuff shut down that comes along with it. Sadly, unless a full bootloader unlock is discovered (hopefully one that works with all variants) there wouldn't be any point because you wouldn't have a properly setup root to begin with, you certainly wouldn't have Magisk, and it would be utterly pointless to run custom roms because NONE of the proprietary hardware goodies would be supported.
That's the price we pay for this phone, and we better be happy with it. So far, I'm not going into seizures over not having SU, but honestly I find the phone kinda boring overall so I don't really care.
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But you're missing the fact that this is a treble phone. All the roms are readily available. All you need is to unlock bootloader then flash a system image.