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This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zel pretty neatly answered this, but I will also add that modern consumer electronics interact with the immediate environment far more than our pcs do. Light sensors, 3g radios, barometers, etc. are far less deterministic than our classic closed-loop pcs. Part of this perception of flux is based on this real flux, for example one of the core features people will discuss is call/modem quality, but driver tweaking vs. actual signal strength is a pretty fuzzy battle for anyone but an electrical/firmware engineer. And just like in the pc world, when you're talking under volting and over clocking your mileage will vary.
If you are methodical and read all the materials, your phone will operate tip top. It seems to me a lot (not all) of the variances often do boil down to the users configuration.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
I have fixed a lot of computers and have been flashing custom roms for a year and ill tell you, in my personal opinion, problems are 90% user error. If people would all install properly and wipe everything completely and follow everything they're told to do and read all possible material on what they're flashing they can, a huge portion of the problems would dissapear. But is that gonna happen? I hope so
Heck I make mistakes too. None of us are immune to screwing up right? Good luck all, happy flashing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Eckyx said:
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
zelendel said:
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to chime in on the Windows thing - we buy a standard build HP computer at work for all developers. But if you put the same Windows disk in two of them and boot and install accepting all the defaults, there will always be slight variations in the way it configures itself between the two. It's probably the hardware detection that does it, but I swear you could get two of the same build lot and you'd STILL get something that didn't set up the same way. Sunspots? Power surge during the process? I dunno, but it does vary
You cant change the disk. Your network adapter has a MAC adress on it... windows will know something has changed. motherboard also has one.
A PC component are not the same at all.
You can buy a good I7 2600k or a bad I7 2600k. There are revisions of the very same model of CPU, memory, everything and its really hard to make 1 equal another.
Another thing is that one smartphone is a lot more delicate piece of hardware and the most important, has limited power to it components.
That makes harder to change anything on it. A small change could lead you to a failure.
just blame it on the ghosts in the machine and be done with it
votinh said:
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not the case. I have tested with two different EVO 4Gs and two different SGS IIs - of the same hardware revision, even.
I performed the same steps to root and ROM both of the sets of phones, and put the same ROM on them. There were no other apps installed, nor themes/addons. I then used each as my phone for a week, making sure that I installed identical apps and even synced app data.
Both performed differently. My i777 is the faster of the two, but my EVO 4G was the slower and more bug-prone.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I at least am convinced. Take it as you will.
Also the phones are made with lower quality checks than desktop. ie I can oc my sgs 1 up to 1.6GHz but uv of -25, the phone well restart. But other people can't go more than 1.2 and cab apply a uv of -150 on the same step.
This is a fact. Think if every phone it's done with high quality checks the price of the device will raise pretty high.
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
sremick said:
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
sremick said:
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
The simple answer is, there is no answer. Its the nature of the process.
I've had one click roms fail the 1st attempt only to succeed the 2nd without even closing the Odin just reconnect the phone.
Either you accept that and have fun with it. Or stick to stock and move on.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
sremick said:
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you're actually wrong because sometimes things CAN go wrong with flashing stuff. And modems in fact do work better in some places than others even though they try to make them universal it is very difficult to do that. Also, if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it? Riddle me that one. Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Ok Here is the thing. I have personally been flashing and making custom roms for phones as far back as the Motorola razor v3. I have multiple phone running the exact same firmware, set up the exact same way and the have run totally differently. If all phone were made equal then there would be no returns due to issues the phone had as they would have all run the same and acted the same as the units that the OEM quality control tested. Lets take the Black Jack 2 as an example. The BJII was a WM phone that would self corrupt the system/media folder. This prevented any ringtones from working and the OS had to be reflashed. All this running on Stock firmware. This didnt happen to all of them, but became a well known glitch to anyone that did cell phone troubleshooting and repair. Did you ever stop to think why OEM and carriers dont use the roms from places like XDA? This is because things here are always under development. There will always be bugs. In the end the developers are making things for their phones and are nice enough to share it for others to use. Some do keep making roms for phones they dont have as this is overly not hard to do. They do this just to be nice. Except for the hardware drivers most of the under lying OS is all the same.
If a dev cant reproduce it then there is no way for them to fix it with the way people tend to report bugs. (The wrong way without the proper info)
Now lets jump to the present. I have 4 phones sitting on my desk. 2 are the HTC Inspire and 2 are the Samsung Captivate. Both running the exact same rom and apps, but guess what. They run very differently. On 1 Inspire and 1 captivate, I can OC to almost double, while the other 2 cant handle more then 1.2 over clock.
One of them also doesnt like the AOSP based software while the others are fine.
As for your backing up and restoring. It can take a long time if you have a TON of apps. Flashing custom roms are not for everyone. If you dont have the time or the want to learn something then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
sremick said:
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your point about the dev/user relationship. It can get pretty hostile sometimes which is completely unnecessary. Recently, I've been trying to emphasize the respect rule, regardless of who you are. Patience and cooperation can go a long way. And as zelendel said, sometimes people do report stuff the wrong way, but there's no need to be rude about it. Again, patience goes a long way.
Back to the main thing though, I'm not entirely sure how 2 fresh-out-of-the-box phones would work with the same settings and ROMs, but as others said, environmental and external factors can stress the phone and stuff just goes wrong. My phone, for example, would not operate the same as a fresh-out-of-the-box SGS2, even if you put the exact same stuff on it. Stuff just starts freaking out, and I'm pretty sure my phone is having hardware issues :[
Hi guys,
I feel as I've done something really stupid in flashing my UK Samsung S3 and I don't understand what or how the hell happened....
Two days ago, I successfully rooted my i9300, installed some root apps, applied triangle away and all seemed well.
Yesterday, without taking heed of the warning in Chainsaw 3D, I (very stupidly) installed the drivers for Chainsaw 3D and promptly bricked my phone
After a little research on YouTube, I found a site that seemed good to unbrick my S3 (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/4...ndroid412-xxemd3-jellybean-update-install.htm). I followed all the steps there, downloaded the firmware from the link there, flashed my phone with Odin 3 and my S3 seemed to be successfully unbricked and good to go.,,,,,,but not so.
After flashing the Jellybean 4.1.2 ROM from the link on the above site, I rooted the phone again, and that seemed to go successfully again, but
now, when I turn it on, and after the Samsung logo has finished swirling, every time it says Android is updating and after that, the home screen appears but it says 'Emergency calls only" (I have tried a couple of different SIMS, and the phone recognizes each SIM card, but it can't seem to connect to any network, such as Vodaphone or O2.
I have tried fixing it with KIES but KIES states that my phone firmware is no compatible with KIES upgrades (???); but the thing that worries me most is that it appears my S3's IMEI number has totally changed with WAY too many zeros in it (how is this so???? I'm completely baffled)
If any of you guys can help with these problems, I'd be eternally grateful, especially the IMEI problem, thanks. Is there a way to fix these problems without wiping all my data? The S3 still has a month's warranty left on it, but I'm kinda worried this time, Samsung will say I've voided my warranty somehow.
NB. My S3 has never been locked to any network.
Did you back up your efs folder before you broke it? If not then you can only try flashing the latest stock rom from sammobile, this might enable the efs folder to be read, but if it's corrupt then you'll pay for a new motherboard.
boomboomer said:
Did you back up your efs folder before you broke it? If not then you can only try flashing the latest stock rom from sammobile, this might enable the efs folder to be read, but if it's corrupt then you'll pay for a new motherboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, no, as I had no idea I needed to back up the efs folder first. Could you please point me in the direction of the latest stock ROM that I'd need?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1646610
Good idea to read the stickies over in general forum before flashing anything.
boomboomer said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1646610
Good idea to read the stickies over in general forum before flashing anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my bad and you're totally right, I'm just not having a good day, Thanks for the link (it's the one I thought I'd need).
Right now, my S3 thinks it's an Iphone with this IMEI....weird!
As an afterthought, may I ask you if fixing my IMEI back to its original would be simpler, safer and quicker if I used 'Universalbox Extended v1.08'?
The last time I bricked my 'rooted' S3 6 months ago, Samsung fixed it under warranty here in the UK with absolutely no quibbles at all, even sent me a new USB cable.....nice of 'em
No.
1) MG4 Baseband doesn't break your imei. It simply changes the format of efs to a new format that older basebands cant read. Its stick with mg4 baseband or restore efs backup from previous
2) altering your imei is illegal so discussion if this is not allowed here.
Please read the imei thread in general > sticky roll-up thread
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4
No idea, discussion of such devices is banned on xda -attempting to amend the imei number carries a 5 year prison sentence in the UK.
boomboomer said:
No idea, discussion of such devices is banned on xda -attempting to amend the imei number carries a 5 year prison sentence in the UK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, didn't know, I read all about that on another legitimate forum, where no mention of it being illegal was mentioned. All I'm trying to do is fix my phone, not try British prison food.
To use kies, without your phone connected, try going to emergency firmware recovery and typing in your serial number, follow the instructions after that.
I believe the laws regarding IMEI is that you cannot change it from the original. I am not sure if restoring would be illegal, but I am no legal expert. I know here in China it is also illegal to change your IMEI, but if I had an issue I could get it back to original at a shop for about 10-20 pounds (or just restore my EFS backup ).
Typing in my serial number or IMEI in Kies? Yes, I could understand if someone was asking about modifying or changing an IMEI for dodgy or illegal purposes, such as with a stolen phone, but to think of there being the threat of a 5 years stretch in jail for trying to legitimately try to fix ones own phone seems a bit far-fetched by my reckoning, but if discussing such matters here are forbidden then rules are rules and who am I to say any different?
I've already downloaded the official firmware mentioned in the above post and will try flashing with that later today, and see how it goes.
Also, it seems pretty unbelievable to me that one corrupt folder would require me forking out for a new mobo.....just seems like scaremongering.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
It is the upgrade and initialization option and it asks for serial.
I don't believe it's an offence to reinstate the original imei, but the same equipment and process can be used to change imei on stolen handsets -hence why discussion is banned. Even possessing the equipment to modify the number is an offense in the UK:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/section/2
Samsung make their handsets with a very open format, great for modding but also very easy to destroy in the process. This is why all the guides here have 'backup your efs folder' as the first instruction.
boomboomer said:
I don't believe it's an offence to reinstate the original imei, but the same equipment and process can be used to change imei on stolen handsets -hence why discussion is banned. Even possessing the equipment to modify the number is an offense in the UK:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/section/2
Samsung make their handsets with a very open format, great for modding but also very easy to destroy in the process. This is why all the guides here have 'backup your efs folder' as the first instruction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what happens when I jump in feet first <g> Must make a note to read important instructions in the future.
Thanks for making it clear Boom2. Ignorance is bliss until it becomes illegal
"Even possessing the equipment to modify the number is an offense in the UK:" I didn't even realise specific hardware was needed......I was under the impression it could all be done with the program I asked about earlier (?) (although I have no intention of using that now).
boomboomer said:
I don't believe it's an offence to reinstate the original imei, but the same equipment and process can be used to change imei on stolen handsets -hence why discussion is banned. Even possessing the equipment to modify the number is an offense in the UK:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/section/2
Samsung make their handsets with a very open format, great for modding but also very easy to destroy in the process. This is why all the guides here have 'backup your efs folder' as the first instruction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hadn't read the actual legislation and have to say it's likely (only in my opinion) that recovering the original IMEI is probably not an offence in the UK....based upon.....
2 Possession or supply of anything for re-programming purposes
(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b)he intends to use the thing unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(2)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he supplies anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b)he knows or believes that the person to whom the thing is supplied intends to use it unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(3)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he offers to supply anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b)he knows or believes that the person to whom the thing is offered intends if it is supplied to him to use it unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(4)A unique device identifier is an electronic equipment identifier which is unique to a mobile wireless communications device.
(5)A thing is used by a person unlawfully for a purpose if in using it for that purpose he commits an offence under section 1.
(6)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
(a)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both, or
(b)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to a fine or to both.
**********************************************
1(b) states "....Unlawfully....", I'm sure a good brief would argue, probably successfully, that recovering the original IMEI was not an unlawful act but instead an attempt to recover the unit to it's original and correct identifier.
For the avoidance of doubt i'm not proposing or advocating doing it, just discussing legal semantics.
pinsb said:
(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b)he intends to use the thing unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a tricky one... to me this defines "changing or interfering" as separate actions. If interfering doesn't mean changing, it would be my assumption that rewriting the original IMEI would be classed as interfering. It would be much clearer if it said:
he has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of changing, interfering or tinkering
pinsb said:
1(b) states "....Unlawfully....", I'm sure a good brief would argue, probably successfully, that recovering the original IMEI was not an unlawful act but instead an attempt to recover the unit to it's original and correct identifier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, it basically says...
You are breaking the law if you
a) have a device that can change or interfer with an IMEI
AND
b) you plan to use it
The word "unlawfully" can actually be dropped completely from that statement. So if all falls back on the definition of interfering. See:
(5)A thing is used by a person unlawfully for a purpose if in using it for that purpose he commits an offence under section 1.
My personal belief after reading this is it is illegal to modify anything regarding the IMEI and being in possession of equipment with the intention of doing this is an offence
rootSU said:
Its a tricky one... to me this defines "changing or interfering" as separate actions. If interfering doesn't mean changing, it would be my assumption that rewriting the original IMEI would be classed as interfering. It would be much clearer if it said:
he has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of changing, interfering or tinkering
Nah, it basically says...
You are breaking the law if you
a) have a device that can change or interfer with an IMEI
AND
b) you plan to use it
The word "unlawfully" can actually be dropped completely from that statement. So if all falls back on the definition of interfering.
My personal belief after reading this is it is illegal to modify anything regarding the IMEI and being in possession of equipment with the intention of doing this is an offence
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know we could too and fro on this, but....
The wording is specific.....
(b)he intends to use the thing unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
I stand by my original view that a good brief would argue restoration is not unlawful, he may not win but I'd be interested to see a judge not allow the argument.....my guess is the CPS wouldn't want to test it in court unless someone was doing it on a commercial scale anyway.
As I've found in the past, ask two lawyers the same question and you'll get three opinions, plus yours making four!!
---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------
RootSU
On an unrelated matter I thought you'd get a kick out of this regarding your sig.
In 2003, lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth MediaLab Arts course used a £2,000 grant from the Arts Council to study the literary output of real monkeys. They left a computer keyboard in the enclosure of six Celebes Crested Macaques in Paignton Zoo in Devon in England for a month, with a radio link to broadcast the results on a website.
Not only did the monkeys produce nothing but five pages consisting largely of the letter S, the lead male began by bashing the keyboard with a stone, and the monkeys continued by urinating and defecating on it. Phillips said that the artist-funded project was primarily performance art, and they had learned "an awful lot" from it. He concluded that monkeys "are not random generators. They're more complex than that. ... They were quite interested in the screen, and they saw that when they typed a letter, something happened. There was a level of intention there."
Hmmmmm......good to know!
I thought it was an infinite number of Monkeys anyway?
pinsb said:
I know we could too and fro on this, but....
The wording is specific.....
(b)he intends to use the thing unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
I stand by my original view that a good brief would argue restoration is not unlawful, he may not win but I'd be interested to see a judge not allow the argument.....my guess is the CPS wouldn't want to test it in court unless someone was doing it on a commercial scale anyway.
As I've found in the past, ask two lawyers the same question and you'll get three opinions, plus yours making four!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes we could to and fro, but just one last point to clarify what I mean.
(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and
(b)he intends to use the thing unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.
(5)A thing is used by a person unlawfully for a purpose if in using it for that purpose he commits an offence under section 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The word unlawfully is superfluous as per (5) which defines the word unlawfully as using it for a purpose that is unlawful. ...and as per 1a, changing or interfering with an IMEI is unlawful, so using the equipment to interfere with an IMEI, even if its restoring the original, is unlawful.
If a lawyer needs to argue any point, its not 1B, rather it's 1A. They must prove that restoring the original IMEI is not interfering. If they prove that, then B is irrelevant because the purpose is no longer unlawful.
---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------
pinsb said:
On an unrelated matter I thought you'd get a kick out of this regarding your sig.
In 2003, lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth MediaLab Arts course used a £2,000 grant from the Arts Council to study the literary output of real monkeys. They left a computer keyboard in the enclosure of six Celebes Crested Macaques in Paignton Zoo in Devon in England for a month, with a radio link to broadcast the results on a website.
Not only did the monkeys produce nothing but five pages consisting largely of the letter S, the lead male began by bashing the keyboard with a stone, and the monkeys continued by urinating and defecating on it. Phillips said that the artist-funded project was primarily performance art, and they had learned "an awful lot" from it. He concluded that monkeys "are not random generators. They're more complex than that. ... They were quite interested in the screen, and they saw that when they typed a letter, something happened. There was a level of intention there."
Hmmmmm......good to know!
I thought it was an infinite number of Monkeys anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha brilliant.
Yes it was an infinite number of monkeys originally...
Hmm, you guys are discussing changing imei numbers - Moderator!
Also, what's the fee for advice to the OP?
boomboomer said:
Hmm, you guys are discussing changing imei numbers - Moderator!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. Whether it's illegal or not in the UK, it is in other countries so discussion is banned.
Hi members,
these days, my Galaxy tab SM-T705 broke down and I would like to get a similar, but up to date replacement. To be honest, I don't like to spend much time in evaluating all the different Android versions an manufactures and so on. So, my question would be, as the subject says: Which one brings the least amount of annoying bundled apps? And which one allows disabling or uninstalling most or all the manufacturer app, that are not really vitally necessary running Android?
Suggestion for a specific model or product line are welcome.
Thanks, Martin
Hello!
I need to play around with IMEI numbers (that is, changing them) on several mobile phones. It's legal in my country AFAIK, so no worries for that
The point is, I'm an absolute rookie on, as in: I never did anything of the sort.
Apparently the first thing I need to do is rooting the phone, then get the right software to change the IMEI.
Reassured by the plenty resources found online, I just went to the first shop and bought a brand new Cubot J5 and a second hand Samsung SM-G532F - Galaxy Grand Prime Plus.
Then I spent 2 days trying to root each one of the devices to no avail. I swear, that was 2 days straight.
Maybe I'm not skilled enough, maybe I'm just too stupid.
So I decided to post for your help, and ask the question in the subject: I need to buy more than one device, so budget is of utmost importance.
What is the easiest device to root in 2020, that I can buy on a budget, with enough resources to get to my ultimate goal i.e. easy and repetitive IMEI changing?
I'm too stupid to do anything complex. Rooting straight from the developer mode on the phone would be the best solution. Anything above that causes headaches
Thanks for your support!!
Hello all,
In my circle of friends there was a suicide case and I was asked by the family if I would be able to remove a screen lock from a Samsung Galaxy S21. The family can't explain why their son killed himself and would like answers to all their questions. They assume that there is information on the phone or reasons for the suicide.
Are there any serious ways to get around such a block? I don't have much information about the device yet, nor do I currently have it with me. Maybe there are exploits or bruteforce toolkits to bypass the lockscreen. Programs like Tenorshare 4uKey or PassFab Android Unlocker are probably scam or?
I will get the device in the next week and could provide more information then.
Currently the following information is available:
Device Model: Samsung Galaxy S21 5G | Samsung SM-G991B | Android 11 | One UI 3.1
Mobile contract: active
SMS PIN & PUK: available
Google account credentials: available and valid and linked to the device but no backups available in Google Drive
Samsung account credentials: present and valid but not associated with the device so no backups available
Does the approach via Kali Nethunter and a HID keyboard attack work with a current Android Samsung Galaxy S21 bruteforcing or do you always get into the temporally increasing lock?
A data recovery $pecialist might be able to, ask the police for assistance.
Find the password for the lockscreen, or maybe through their Gmail or Samsung accounts, again passwords needed.
I think if they wanted you in the phone they would have unlocked it...
blackhawk said:
A data recovery $pecialist might be able to, ask the police for assistance.
Find the password for the lockscreen, or maybe through their Gmail or Samsung accounts, again passwords needed.
I think if they wanted you in the phone they would have unlocked it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a helpful answer.
The police in this country does not help in such matters if it is assumed that no outside influence was involved.
A data recovery specialist also only executes toolkits or exploits. I am also able to do this if someone gives me a hint which toolkits or exploits would come into question for this model. I work as a sysadmin myself and therefore I am not completely untalented technically. I just lack information about which approach would be the best.
This is a community of people who like to hack their phones, not hack into other people's phones... which is considered unethical.
Are you serious?
You really think it's unethical when a 21 year old boy takes his own life overnight and the family just wants to know why their son did it? Sure, the boy was of age at 21 and can do with his life what he wants. Nevertheless, any clear-thinking person can understand that the family wants to know why the son did that.
I have no bad intentions and I am only trying to help the family. This is not about hacking a stolen cell phone. Then I would just do a factory reset and use the phone normally and not write this post here.
Yes, well... be that as it may.
With a screen lock in place you can't simply factory reset as you still be locked out.
I believe my original response was valid. It's not an easy nut to crack... by design.
Hello, i own a phone repair shop and i'm a relation with a person specialized in unlocking phones. He said me that he can bypass the lock screen and keep data on all samsung phones and he can do it remotly. Being in this business i don't trust him a lot about keeping data. One of my customer's son is dead and his family want to access his phone, they gave me his phone and they are agree to loose data if things dont go good so i'm gonna try with this guy and if you want i will give you a feedback.
Hi sorry to hear that this terrible situation happened around you.
I am in a similar situation. My cousin died suddenly and his sister asked be to recover pictures and videos because he filmed himself before try to end his life and she would like to find if there is any video that could help us understand better.
I'm trying to find ways to do that and so far I haven't but I wanted to share some information in case it could be helpful to someone.
I tried the iMobie Data Extractor. It is supposed to help recover data from "broken phone". I guess it's the closest thing I found that didn't look scammy and could work. After about a month of back and forth with their support person, I managed to replaced the OS using Odin (because the official software left my phone in a non-bootable state) replacing all partitions except User Data. Unfortunately, that didn't remove the lock (PIN). I'm not surprised since I didn't wipe the User Data.
From a security perspective, it is good that it is hard (impossible) to access data of a locked phone, but from a family emotional perspective, it is hard to have to tell my family that I failed.
I wish you good luck and please post here if you find a way.
be safe
Touftaf said:
Hello, i own a phone repair shop and i'm a relation with a person specialized in unlocking phones. He said me that he can bypass the lock screen and keep data on all samsung phones and he can do it remotly. Being in this business i don't trust him a lot about keeping data. One of my customer's son is dead and his family want to access his phone, they gave me his phone and they are agree to loose data if things dont go good so i'm gonna try with this guy and if you want i will give you a feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happened
I don't have easy-to-hear information for you. But I offer these words as a way to think about this situation.
I believe Samsung intentionally builds phones which are extremely hard to break into. This is a conscious design decision they make. Why? Because so many users do things like credit card payments, banking, and social media, where, if you lost your phone and a bad person found it, an easy-to-break-into device would have potentially catastrophic results. Aside from the harm to a user who lost a phone, Samsung themselves would be subjected to great reputational damage, too. It's bad press when it's easy to break into and steal something.
Also, you may not be able to break into the device, even with the help of a commercial vendor. Exploits in Android, when found, are patched regularly. A very smart person might have had a way to crack into a phone last week, last month, or last year. But again, Samsung intends to continually patch the software to keep it secure. They make a point to telling people that Samsung phones are patched for several years, so users will feel confident their data will be secure.
One suspects certain governments have police or security organizations who likely could break in, but they are unlikely to help in a personal situation, as you described.
Although this doesn't seem to apply to you, it's worth saying that Samsung phones are also backed up (by default) to their "cloud." It's possible that a lawyer might be able, with proper documentation of the owner's death, to get access to Samsung's (or Google's) cloud backup(s). I don't think it's easy though. Google, at least in the USA, allows the owner of an account to specify how Google should handle their data if they stop accessing their accounts. (I think Google treats an idle account as "dead" and for reasons like this, if you no longer want to use a vendor like Samsung or Google, you should proactively delete your account, not merely let it go idle.)
Anyone reading this post, might want to consider having what can be an uncomfortable conversation with your friends and family: "How would you like your friends and family handle your electronic, financial, and social accounts in the event of your death?"
Please, forgive me if any of this sounds insensitive. My father worked in insurance and as part of his job he knew all to well that all people eventually die. And how hard it is for those left behind to pick up the pieces, especially when secrets are involved. My family knows where to find my keys.