Related
Just read the shocking news that sonyericsson WILL NOT give any update after the Eclair to the X10 family including the X8.
But all the Android phones they release will have the 2.3.
J read that in sonyericsson UK
That is really a bad news :|
http://www.xperiax10.net/2011/01/06...-will-not-receive-upgrade-to-froyo-or-beyond/
and here
http://www.xperiax10.net/2011/01/06...ys-its-android-2-1-update-is-better-than-2-2/
Long live SE! had great experience with SE but now its finally over bb SE!! till never!!
Any update on Froyo ROM for Xperia X10 mini pro?
Paid upgrade
I can see why phone makers can't keep on updating their phones to new versions of android or any other OS.
Android evolves quickly and to expect constant upgrades to every new version is a bit much. Also: how long should the manufacturer keep upgrading the phone? 1 year? 2? 3?
I know SE has done many things wrong:
Heavy deep customization of the OS (makes upgrades hard).
Very wide line of hardware and regional version variaition in the same product.
Badly managed software team
I am starting to think of phones as computers. If you want to upgrade from windows xp to windows 7 you pay. If we started paying for upgrades we could demand better faster updates and the company would have a financial reason to do the upgrades. I think this is the most reasonable model. The initial phone cost can't justify eternal upgrades IMO.
Hopefully the x10mini will get ROMs soon. In a perfect world SE would leave the phone truly open and hackable anyway.
I wonder if an unofficial froyo was made for the X10 family ,what would the UI looks like?
I hope this is a rumor anyway or that sonyericsson will listen to the complains.
i wrote a petition... i can't post a link 'cause i'm new but...
the link
Www.petitiononline.com/x10free/petition.html
yahona3 said:
the link
Www.petitiononline.com/x10free/petition.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!!
ptpoul said:
Hopefully the x10mini will get ROMs soon. In a perfect world SE would leave the phone truly open and hackable anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's something I don't understand. Is it common for other manufacturers too? I guess not. I see absolutely no reason for those obstructions. As always if You want sell Your phone then usualy use tools to reflash it back to original FW. Nobody will buy hacked phone for no reason. Make phone open is not disadvantage. Only reason is that SE want us to buy new phones and FW should be one of many reasons. They know potentional of X10 phones and they know it can run even gingerbread without any hassle. So that's the only reason I see, the business.
ptpoul said:
I can see why phone makers can't keep on updating their phones to new versions of android or any other OS.
Android evolves quickly and to expect constant upgrades to every new version is a bit much. Also: how long should the manufacturer keep upgrading the phone? 1 year? 2? 3?
I know SE has done many things wrong:
Heavy deep customization of the OS (makes upgrades hard).
Very wide line of hardware and regional version variaition in the same product.
Badly managed software team
I am starting to think of phones as computers. If you want to upgrade from windows xp to windows 7 you pay. If we started paying for upgrades we could demand better faster updates and the company would have a financial reason to do the upgrades. I think this is the most reasonable model. The initial phone cost can't justify eternal upgrades IMO.
Hopefully the x10mini will get ROMs soon. In a perfect world SE would leave the phone truly open and hackable anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SE said they'd keep working on software updates for (at least? im not sure) 2 years. I do agree that a mediascape-update is quite different from an entire OS-upgrade, but still... The X10 Mini Pro is like 6 months old! What are they thinking of updating for 1.5 year?! The Mediaplayer?!
Still, I've read something about the Mini & Pro being able to get some updates the bigger X10 can't. The topic was about 2.2/2.3 so I just hope this particular post was on-topic. Not quite shure though and I can't find it anymore... :S
ptpoul said:
I can see why phone makers can't keep on updating their phones to new versions of android or any other OS.
Android evolves quickly and to expect constant upgrades to every new version is a bit much. Also: how long should the manufacturer keep upgrading the phone? 1 year? 2? 3?
I know SE has done many things wrong:
Heavy deep customization of the OS (makes upgrades hard).
Very wide line of hardware and regional version variaition in the same product.
Badly managed software team
I am starting to think of phones as computers. If you want to upgrade from windows xp to windows 7 you pay. If we started paying for upgrades we could demand better faster updates and the company would have a financial reason to do the upgrades. I think this is the most reasonable model. The initial phone cost can't justify eternal upgrades IMO.
Hopefully the x10mini will get ROMs soon. In a perfect world SE would leave the phone truly open and hackable anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SE big and rich company, I think that they have enoth money! If we just paid for new update, its not interesting for se. Most interested - to bring new devices with new software! That's all
Sent from my U20i using XDA App
ptpoul said:
I can see why phone makers can't keep on updating their phones to new versions of android or any other OS.
Android evolves quickly and to expect constant upgrades to every new version is a bit much. Also: how long should the manufacturer keep upgrading the phone? 1 year? 2? 3?
I know SE has done many things wrong:
Heavy deep customization of the OS (makes upgrades hard).
Very wide line of hardware and regional version variaition in the same product.
Badly managed software team
I am starting to think of phones as computers. If you want to upgrade from windows xp to windows 7 you pay. If we started paying for upgrades we could demand better faster updates and the company would have a financial reason to do the upgrades. I think this is the most reasonable model. The initial phone cost can't justify eternal upgrades IMO.
Hopefully the x10mini will get ROMs soon. In a perfect world SE would leave the phone truly open and hackable anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my U20a using XDA App
ptpoul said:
I can see why phone makers can't keep on updating their phones to new versions of android or any other OS.
Android evolves quickly and to expect constant upgrades to every new version is a bit much. Also: how long should the manufacturer keep upgrading the phone? 1 year? 2? 3?
I know SE has done many things wrong:
Heavy deep customization of the OS (makes upgrades hard).
Very wide line of hardware and regional version variaition in the same product.
Badly managed software team
I am starting to think of phones as computers. If you want to upgrade from windows xp to windows 7 you pay. If we started paying for upgrades we could demand better faster updates and the company would have a financial reason to do the upgrades. I think this is the most reasonable model. The initial phone cost can't justify eternal upgrades IMO.
Hopefully the x10mini will get ROMs soon. In a perfect world SE would leave the phone truly open and hackable anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes we shouldnt expect infinite upgrades but we should get more than 6 months or so. I think that SE should state how long they should provide support for their products with at least 2 years, as a lot of people have to sign up to plans of this length we they obtain their phone. We all know that these phones are capable of running at least 2.2
Sent from my U20a using XDA App
The other thing that should happen is, if they wont support their phone they should open up the bootloader etc so others like the awesome guys here at XDA can support their phones
Sent from my U20a using XDA App
ptpoul said:
I am starting to think of phones as computers. If you want to upgrade from windows xp to windows 7 you pay. If we started paying for upgrades we could demand better faster updates and the company would have a financial reason to do the upgrades. I think this is the most reasonable model. The initial phone cost can't justify eternal upgrades IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if we had Windows7 phones then yea, I could agree with you, but our phones are essentially Linux powered and Linux is Open source...
I have been running Ubuntu on my laptop for years now and I always get upgraded to the latest version.. free of charge, all SE needs to do is lose the SE bull****, make the phones stock Android (I mean no one buys the phones for timescape) then updates would be easy. (I think thats what they plan to do on their 2nd generation Android phones, I suggest if you want 2.2 or 2.3 you will need to buy a new phone.. the question is wether SE has learnt their lesson with the X10 range.. or if they continue to shoot them selves in the foot with customizations.. I for sure am going to wait a few months before replaceing my X10.. see how the new SE phones are (re bootloader and software) then make my decision on what phone to buy.. I quite like the SE hardware and design (and I was a nokia fan before, but I was sick to death of Symbian) so I have no problems buying an HTC or Samsung next if SE doesn't sort their ****.
anyway.. peace, and hope the our bootloader gets cracked soon.
so let me get this right my x10 mini pro WILL get 2.3 for real???
No .. future releases of new PHONES will get 2.3 according to SE
I was thinking with all this bashing SE thing with the update.. Have we guys ask our selves:
1. When we buy this phone, do SE promise something other than eclair(2.1)
2. when we buy this phone its already 1.6 and they are very transparent with that.
3. do you think SE will upgrade our phone every now and then.
- Linux(Ubuntu) and other alike, gets updated because it is more of a hobby/colaboration of a group "WITHOUT" string attached than commercially produced product(SE). (Correct me if Im wrong but that is only my opinion).
4. Why would they upgrade their product to froyo? you already bought their product, all they need to do is fix bugs/issues that will be found on their current phone with its current OS, either software or Hardware.
5. Upgrading their phone will only make it harder, since they have to support existing user with 1.6, 2.1 and now 2.2 (if froyo will ever get out).
6. So why not make it hackable or install Basic Android.? They will not. because, it will make it harder for them to Identify who's the culprit if they're product/phone dies. They can do it, but they'll have to remove the "support" for their phone.
Guys, Its not that I don't want Froyo or latest software be pushed on my device, but at-least we should also be reasonable with our wishes.
Do you guys, really want Froyo on our X10 Mini, or Do you want Froyo or 2.3 on next generation X10 Mini?
But still want froyo on my x10 mini. hahahahahah
@pongscript
If you take a look, all most all the manufacturers have updated their sets with Froyo, if they can do it, why can't SE? They are not smaller then others, right?
Also if they update the versions all together than the don't have to worry of supporting an outdated version, which would have well known unresolved bugs
Keeping the system updated should not be such not a big deal! They already have all the drivers and stuffs, They just need to make a build with all the updates and put it up in the server. if the XDA guys can do that without having access to all of the necessary drivers and stuffs, WHY IN THE HELL with all the access they can't do it!??
- Linux(Ubuntu) and other alike, gets updated because it is more of a hobby/colaboration of a group "WITHOUT" string attached than commercially produced product(SE). (Correct me if Im wrong but that is only my opinion).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong, There are few people works out of hobby yes, but in the core there are dedicated people and groups. For Ubuntu its Canonical who provides commercial support and also have a big community support. Also take a look at Redhat Linux.
@TheGame316
PC and Smart phones are not same, yet. In PC you can change the bootloader at your will but in phones you can not as most of the smart phones are locked down (Except Google Nexus series and HTC I think). So you cannot update yourself. If they want to charge for update, they also should free up the boot loaders, so that I can do my own upgrades. But it they are keeping the boot loaders locked, They are bound to give me my upgrades cause they are not letting me do that. Period.
If they decides to dump us then just give us option so that we can get rid of their trash and update our system by ourselves. If they had done that with X10's then I would understand. But they wont do that. And that's why I am dumping them from my buying list next time.
tmahmood said:
Keeping the system updated should not be such not a big deal! They already have all the drivers and stuffs, They just need to make a build with all the updates and put it up in the server. if the XDA guys can do that without having access to all of the necessary drivers and stuffs, WHY IN THE HELL with all the access they can't do it!??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think, the answer..its a big issue its because it more of a business thing rather than community work, we here at xda help each other to benefit one another, and but SE as a commercial corporation only goes for the money, other than that they don't have any use for us. yeah, SE might be an evil, but every company is like that, not all company update their phone, actually good phone will never got/or should not be updated. but I guess in android world its different.
Its not that Im on SE side, nor any companies side, but I guess if they always keep up with android, additional man power for development will be needed which equals to extra cost. other business induce this kind of practice to be competitive but in long term it is not very reasonable. android is kind of past phase software evolution.
In reality, X10 mini is a success story which does not really succeed. they fail when they try to copy non-replacable battery of IPhone. same view point that tells you, you will not have the same phone after a couple of years.
But who does not want the next generation x10 mini. if they focus more on current mini they might not have enough people to work for other new device.
Im quite contented with My X10 mini, as long as the phone works upgrade is just a bonus but not a necessity. New update will only make the battery go bad, because you have to explore it again- and again for new thing. heheheheh..
tmahmood said:
Wrong, There are few people works out of hobby yes, but in the core there are dedicated people and groups. For Ubuntu its Canonical who provides commercial support and also have a big community support. Also take a look at Redhat Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok Got it, thank for correction, though on red-hat you need to buy license for support(but not for software), support including updates for issues. our company have these type of license, but there is no real life use for this. some update is only to support new hardware. which is not currently being used by our company.
But In the end, we all want to force SE to give us froyo. but what does froyo have that really worth it.
I am not here to start a flame war. I am here to express my honest opinion. I would be more than happy to engage in polite rhetoric, but I will ignore any post containing personal attacks and completely illogical jumps/wild conjecture.
I have been paying very close attention to the OPMOSH movement, and I must say, I am extremely disappointed with what I have seen. To those who have already stopped, I thank you for either realizing that this movement is not going to accomplish its stated goal, or for giving up and moving on to another manufacturer's device, which I truly hope you are enjoying.
For those still pursuing this course of action, I offer the following:
Motorola Mobility, in response to a very poorly written reply from one of their Facebook page operators, stated that they were working with carriers to provide a solution that allowed their devices to be open to developers, and still stisfied their overall security policies. This statement was not a promise to unlock anything, merely stating that they were working towards a solution.
In April of 2011, Motorola released a statement that it was their intention to offer unlockable/relockable bootloaders across their portfolio in late 2011 where carriers would allow it. Again, this statement is not a promise, but a clarification and expansion of their Facebook reply in January. They were aiming for deployment in late 2011, but they didn't explicitly state that there would definitely be an unlock tool at that time.
In October of 2011, Motorola stated that the Motorola Razr would have an unlockable bootloader if the carrier wanted it. This statement is indeed a promise, but there was no timeline given for its deployment. If they were still on course for late 2011, I'm absolutely certain they would have been more than happy to announce that as well. Since they did not say the tool would be available at launch, nor did they say when it would be available, the only logical conclusion is that it would be made available when it was ready and the proper agreements had been reached with each specific carrier, which I'd gather is more difficult than simply notifying the carrier of their intended action.
And so, we come to OPMOSH. The thread was started on the xda website on January 4th of 2012. The idea was that if enough people screamed loud enough, and long enough, and disrupted their operationss enough, Motorola Mobility would give in to the demands of the community and provide the unlock tool that was "promised" nearly a year prior.
Except there was no promise, there is no "right" to having an unlocked bootloader. There is a possible FCC violation, but at this point I'm absolutely sure they are aware of the situation, and we can let them go about their investigation. They won't tell us the progress on such investigation, but continually showering them with notifications will not speed the process.
Motorola's position is fairly well laid out in post #40 of the Razr Developer Edition discussion thread on their official forums. For those who don't want to Google it, essentially one of the forum managers states that they have had issues with working with the developer community in the past, and are not exactly jumping at the chance to open what they see as a Pandora's box of sorts. And, based on the actions taken by many supporting OPMOSH, I really can't blame them. The community has shown that they are willing to maliciously disrupt Motorola's normal business operations because they want something they are not entitled to in the first place. OPMOSH is the equivalent of a smear campaign, and if Motorola were to give in at this point and provide an unlock tool, it would only open them to further abuse from the community, or anyone else who wants a particular feature they think is "necessary" or their "right".
And before anyone throws the "it can't be *insert carrier*, they let the Nexus/HTC/Samsung phone be unlocked", I'm certain that each carrier has an agreement with each phone manufacturer that differs in key aspects. In the Verizon/Motorola agreement, there could very well be a clause that prevents Motorola from unlocking their devices. Obviously, encrypting the locked bootloader was Motorola's choice, but by doing so they can more effectively market their products to the lucrative enterprise and government accounts, who welcome such details to retain the integrity of their intranets. I know several IT departments that have issued Droid X2s, and more recently Razrs, to replace aging Blackberries for precisely this reason. True, some others are starting to use HTC and Samsung handsets, but there is no denying that Motorola produces the most secure and business oriented devices of any current major manufacturer.
And so, it is my firm opinion that based upon the above arguments, OPMOSH needs an immediate and total cease and desist. We are shooting ourselves in the foot at this point. They are removing/ignoring posts on their Facebook because that is their right. They are removing/ignoring tweets because that is their right. We do not have the right to abuse, slander, or otherwise disrupt any corporate entity, when they are well within their own rights to distribute their products within the confines of their legal obligations based upon binding carrier agreements which were most likely made long before having a locked bootloader became such a huge issue.
If you do not like the handset you have, sell or trade it for another one through Swappa, eBay, or Craigslist. If you like the handset you have, then be patient. I can guarantee that Motorola has heard what now amounts to little more than whining, and will move forward with their stated intent of unlocking their bootloaders where they can, and possibly (hopefully) working to renegotiate their carrier agreements to allow unlocked bootloaders. Thinking that all it takes for Motorola to unlock their bootloaders is to flip a switch and there will be no repercussions to that decision is to not only overlook important facts, but in the end is simply wishful thinking. If it really was that simple, then all HTC phones would have been unlockable as soon as their site went live.
Regardless, by pitching the internet equivalent of a child's fit, constantly bombarding Motorola's social media outlets, and wasting the time of several Motorola employees in the process, we are only reaffirming Motorola's view of our lack of trustworthiness as a community.
I, for one, love my Motorola device. I will continue to hack it to my liking and to the best of my ability. I will share anything I think is cool or interesting with the community because I want to do so, not because I am or feel obligated to. I will make the choice to believe that I am not limited by the manufacturer of my device, but only by my imagination and ingenuity. I will continue to support the countless devs who use their precious personal time to enhance my user experience far beyond what I thought possible.
Finally, I will continue to believe that Motorola still intends to follow through on their statements, and are working toward a solution that will allow us to have the freedom to do as we please with our phones, while providing a strong and secure experience to the customers who require such things.
I appreciate anyone who has made it this far, and apologize for the wall of text. I hope that my plea does not go unnoticed, and can bring at least some sanity to our community.
TL;DR : Motorola never promised us anything. We do not have any right to an unlocked bootloader, any more than we have a right to use exploits in the Android code to gain root access. OPMOSH is a smear campaign that is likely to only serve to deepen Motorola's distrust in the Android development community. Only by stopping OPMOSH, and showing faith in Motorola as a company, will they ever see fit to give us what we ask for, and start to close the massive rift that has come between us.
As an aside, I am in no way affiliated with Motorola or any of its partners. I'm just a guy who is severely disappointed at the lack of reason and basic decency shown by the Motorola development community with regards to this situation. I have no illusion that my opinion means anymore than anyone else's, but I felt that I must at least try to forestall what I see as the only possible outcome should this operation continue, which is that Motorola will issue a statement that despite their best efforts they did not find a solution which is feasible at this time beyond offering special "developer edition" phones.
Kindly post a link to this "post #40" of which you speak of...
I have tried looking for it on their Support Forums, and their Developer Forums but I could not seem to find it.
This is an interesting post, and - if nothing else - I appreciate the amount of thought you've put into it.
I can agree on some points, and do feel that social media smear campaigns and/or armchair activism will accomplish little beyond hot air, as Motorola have not shown any indication that they're willing to budge. Endless Facebook spam does little to aid anyone, since the poor social media team and other customer-facing representatives are, in all likelihood, on the side of the customers they have to deal with on a daily basis, and have little to no power to make the fundamental changes we seek.
I have no doubt that there are Motorola representatives both among us, and on 'our side', as it were. There have been leaks galore, including one that resulted in the Atrix's bootloader being unlocked, a massive boon for its community. The GSM RAZR has already seen an early ICS leak, which was very welcome. Whispers and rumours have it that Moto has had some falling out with the developer community at some point. If anyone knows more about this, I'm very interested.
What you're missing, here, is a combination of expectation and impression. To make it personal, this is the first Motorola device I have personally owned, as there simply haven't been any flagship Moto devices that came in GSM flavours as well as CDMA (Aside from the too-little-too-late nobody-really-cares Milestone range, and the Atrix, which was a great idea that ended up outdated by launch). The RAZR's wonderful industrial design spoke to me, as did its SAMOLED screen, as Samsung have spoiled me and I can't stand LCDs any more. So I took the plunge, shifting from the very popular and very well supported Galaxy S II. No offense to Moto, their hardware is lovely, but their software is awful, the battery life is awful (A bigger battery is a very blunt force solution, re: RAZR MAXX), and it disappoints me greatly that I can’t change that when I could with my past three Android phones, and even my last Windows Mobile phone. I don't fully regret making the shift, but in retrospect, I wish I'd bought a Galaxy Note or Galaxy Nexus instead.
There are reasons for locking bootloaders that, disagree as I may, make a degree of sense. There's 'security', there's DRM content, there's enterprise IT requirements, and there's (supposedly) carrier requirements. But at this point, there's really not much reason to keep it locked, as the only thing it does is prevent running unsigned kernels. ROMs can be flashed, security can be breached, bloatware can be removed, and all that reasoning is essentially null and void. There is no advantage to a locked bootloader when a device is already rooted, it really doesn't provide any added security - indeed, the ability to flash one's own custom kernel compiled from source is the domain of the security conscious, not the casual user who might haphazardly harm their device - which, again, is certainly possible without the bootloader being unlocked.
There is really no good, specific argument in favour of locking the bootloader, especially when other OEMs – see: HTC, Sony Ericsson – are happy to provide tools that allow this, and Motorola did lead consumers to believe that the RAZR would be unlocked in much the same manner. A quick Googling leads me to this post here, which I believe to be the origin: http://ausdroid.net/2011/10/21/motorola-razr-to-be-unlockable/
Here, one Christy Wyatt is quoted as saying that the GSM variant of the RAZR would have an unlockable/relockable bootloader, and that Verizon had disabled this feature. The interesting thing about “where carriers allow” is that a large number of GSM RAZRs are sold SIM-free, and contain no carrier branding. There is no carrier to disallow the unlocking of the bootloader. Where is the excuse here?
I think it’s safe to say that the majority of RAZR owners pushing for the bootloader unlock would be happy to give up any features Moto – or carriers – feel the bootloader needs to be locked to enable. Webtop? DRM? Citrix? Enterprise security? Honestly, it seems like Moto is trying to market their devices to a specific niche, the BYO corporate market, and it feels to me that there’s too many compromises for what amounts to a relatively small segment (Or one that’s happy with iOS/Blackberry/et cetera anyway). Take a record of my IMEI. Disable as many stock features as you like. I would even give up Activesync support if I could have that unlocked bootloader.
These phones are hardware platforms, computing platforms. Back when the original Milestone was released – the delayed GSM counterpart to the original Droid – its bootloader was locked where the Droid’s was not. Motorola representatives went as far as to suggest that development enthusiasts purchase the then-current Nexus One instead of a Milestone. Bad form to actively turn their customers towards the competition. Android development has bloomed in the last few years, and it’s now expected that one should be able to modify one’s mobile device, just as has been the case with desktop hardware for decades. When one buys a phone, one owns that hardware. Even if they only have a ‘license’ to Motorola’s (Flawed) flavour of the software, they currently have no choice but to use it, and it’s an expectation of the open-source Android operating systems that its hardware platforms should be open for development.
There’s two more factors, here. One is damage control. Regardless of how this came about, consumers DID get the impression that – at the very least – the open market GSM RAZR would have an unlockable bootloader. It does not. Moto have only issued vague statements, some of which specifically mentioned software solutions (rather than “Buy another phone”) but have done very little to clarify the situation, or to placate their increasingly upset userbase.
Motorola might not ‘owe’ us an unlocked bootloader, per se, but they do owe their audience some clarity and some answers. It was also suggested in the above article that the bootloader solution may be rolled out with the Ice-Cream Sandwich updates, but this too has been a point of contention. Many are very disappointed with the Q2 timeframe when, again, the expectation was that the RAZR would be swiftly updated and not leave fans disappointed that they opted for a device shipping with an old OS revision when the new one was announced the same day as the RAZR itself. Moto have not been clear – and yes, I know there’s the old business mantra of underpromise and overdeliver, but it’s been going from bad to worse. Which brings me to the final factor…
The ‘Developer Edition’ is no solution at all. It is hardly fair to anyone, least of all existing customers who purchased the original RAZR in good faith, to announce a hardware revision to circumvent a firmware restriction. No warranty, full retail price for the same hardware, and just to make it laughable, the development device can’t even be unlocked at present.
TL;DR?
Yes, childish spam and/or smear campaigns on social media channels are childish. But there is no good reason for the bootloader to remain locked, and many customers purchased the device under the impression that an unlock method would be provided. Motorola’s communication has been poor at best, and people are understandably upset.
"I can guarantee that Motorola has heard what now amounts to little more than whining"
Please explain.
How long have you worked for Motorola?
And a short answer to your question:
NO!
In my opinion the problem is not only the locked bootloader. The bootloader is only a trigger that forced people to go over the edge. The problem is the arrogant and ignorant stance the motorola has been taking toward the common user of their devices. I know we live in an ultra capitalist world where "big players" can get away with anything, but in my opinion that alone should not be the reason for all of us to just give in and take it up our butts. Maybe these kinds of rebellions don't bring much success right away, but it sure as hell reminds these people that what they are doing will make some noise, and maybe will at least force them to think twice next time.
If we talk about this specific case: I understand that to some 400+ euro is not a lot of money, but to some it is almost their entire monthly paycheck and if i am willing to spend so much money on a product, the producer can expect from me wanting to get some "love" in return. Of course it is not their legal obligation, but just common logic that not all of us will be quiet and let them get away with anything and that is very important....what i was saying earlier. I'm sure in todays world when people are being eaten alive by the current political and social system, a little "love" (even if its fake), can take a company a long way and can in a long run be a market advantage and bring more money to that company. And money is the only thing they really care about. Well maybe 10.000-15.000 signatures are very little, but 5+ million users of xda now have heard or know for a fact (many known before OPMOSH) that motorola is the most unfriendly user company in the market. These people being a bit of tech-geeks have friends that come to them for advice when buying new phones,.... and very soon you come to a number ob 20+ million people having an argument against buying your product. And that is a very bad thing in todays highly competitive market where differences between products are very small.
So what i want to say is, that no matter what the way, it is always important that not all people are quiet, because even if it doesn't look like it straight away, it does makes a difference....maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but surely the day after that
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1511364
It does in fact elicit a response, so it is working
Im happy I also own a Xperia. I got my Razr because I belived the an article about the loader. Wont do that again.
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/wp/2012...e-for-unlocked-2011-xperia-smartphone-models/
Sent from my XT910 using Tapatalk
Well put by the OP and too have an honest opinion. I have followed the threads and it started strong but just like the whole "Occupy Wall Street/whatever city they wanna occupy" movement, it lost the true message and became a bunch of adults acting like spoiled 3 year olds when an adult tells them no. I could care less about an unlocked bootloader, I care more about rooting my Android phone and being able to use a stable custom ROM. I understand however taking a stand for a product we own. If y'all desperately want an unlocked bootloader got get the GNex
Sent from my rooted and Safe Strapped Motor DROID RAZR
kimo91 said:
I could care less about an unlocked bootloader, I care more about rooting my Android phone and being able to use a stable custom ROM.
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I'm sorry, this is a ridiculous opinion to hold. I can understand frustration at people's behaviour, and I can understand playing devil's advocate, but custom ROMs are practically little more than themes without custom kernels. The locked bootloader is the reason we don't have a wide selection of stable custom ROMs for you to flash.
Enjoy your 'themes and tweaks'.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
onslaught86 said:
I'm sorry, this is a ridiculous opinion to hold. I can understand frustration at people's behaviour, and I can understand playing devil's advocate, but custom ROMs are practically little more than themes without custom kernels. The locked bootloader is the reason we don't have a wide selection of stable custom ROMs for you to flash.
Enjoy your 'themes and tweaks'.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
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Rediculous opinion? Last I checked I wasn't one if the many that claimed to be duped into buying a phone because Motorola said they would unlock the bootloader. I bought my Razr to suit my everyday needs, accessibility to root, and what not. Who cares if the current roms out now are mainly themed and has tweeked kernels, cause I simply don't. If my simple ways of using my phone or even customizing it the way i like it then im one of the few that perfers my phone the way it is currently. You sound like one of the many sheep out there that bought the Razr for Motorola to unlock the bootloader. Baaaaaa
Sent from my rooted and Safe Strapped Motor DROID RAZR
kimo91 said:
Rediculous opinion? Last I checked I wasn't one if the many that claimed to be duped into buying a phone because Motorola said they would unlock the bootloader. I bought my Razr to suit my everyday needs, accessibility to root, and what not. Who cares if the current roms out now are mainly themed and has tweeked kernels, cause I simply don't. If my simple ways of using my phone or even customizing it the way i like it then im one of the few that perfers my phone the way it is currently. You sound like one of the many sheep out there that bought the Razr for Motorola to unlock the bootloader. Baaaaaa
Sent from my rooted and Safe Strapped Motor DROID RAZR
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You like custom ROMs and claim not to care about unlocked bootloaders. Do you genuinely not see the fundamental contradiction in that, or are you just arguing the point because it's cool to be non-conformist these days?
Unlocking the bootloader affects you and your usage of the phone all of not - that's great, good for you. But it does affect plenty of other people, and your being a little tired of seeing them complain on social media channels does not invalidate their claim.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
Do not attack or offend other users regardless of your PERSONAL opinions. Keep this thread clean from abusive, flaming or attacks.
In relation to the SupportMyMoto campaign in which Motorola made the controversial decision to abandon its 2011 flagship phones Atrix, Electrify, and Photon (among others), I'm wondering how long you, as Android users (regardless of what phone you have), feel a phone should be kept current with software updates.
Please keep in mind that if a lightbulb never burned out, you would never buy replacements, so to stay in business, the company would have to sell infinite lightbulbs at an extremely high price. Likewise, if you didn't have incentive to upgrade after 18-24 months, phones would have to be more expensive to compensate for people sticking with what they have for longer.
Should a phone be kept up to date with Android version updates for the longest contract after the phone is released, the longest contract after the phone goes EOL and is no longer sold, somewhere in between, or longer?
To explain the poll options, since I can't do it on the options themselves, the time is how long the device gets timely Android updates, and the nothing/% is how much extra you'd be willing to pay. Best option means it gets updates for 2 years, but after that all materials are released to the public (e.g. XDA) so volunteers could continue to develop new ROMs.
Dark Reality said:
In relation to the SupportMyMoto campaign in which Motorola made the controversial decision to abandon its 2011 flagship phones Atrix, Electrify, and Photon (among others), I'm wondering how long you, as Android users (regardless of what phone you have), feel a phone should be kept current with software updates.
Please keep in mind that if a lightbulb never burned out, you would never buy replacements, so to stay in business, the company would have to sell infinite lightbulbs at an extremely high price. Likewise, if you didn't have incentive to upgrade after 18-24 months, phones would have to be more expensive to compensate for people sticking with what they have for longer.
Should a phone be kept up to date with Android version updates for the longest contract after the phone is released, the longest contract after the phone goes EOL and is no longer sold, somewhere in between, or longer?
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I would say it depended on how many active users had the device
neighborhoodhacker said:
I would say it depended on how many active users had the device
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Obviously in the real world, if someone else pays double for the device and gets lifetime support, that work is going to leak and somebody who paid the regular price can reap the benefits. But that isn't the question.
Think of it more as, if you're Motorola (or whatever manufacturer). How should they do it? Should they provide extended service? For how long and how much should they charge? Or should they do it for free, and if so how charitable would you have them be?
I'll give a little different take on this. When I go on contract with my provider I get a discounted price on the phone because it is subsidized by the 2 year contract. When my contract is over I go month to month at the same subsidized rate, so I am still paying for my phone the same as if I was under contract. I feel that as long as my provider is charging me the subsidy, they have an obligation to provide support and work with the manufacturer. When support is officially dropped, then the subsidy has to stop as well.
So, I say as long as the phone is in use with a subsidy it must be supported. And in the spirit of open source, when official support is stopped, all source and notes must be made available to the user community.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I'd take it on a case by case basis. If a handset maker knows it's not going to update its devices, it should make that clear right away, and give the appropriate discount to the device. What is simply ludicrous is that you pay the full price for a super duper device and 12 months later it's just like the device never existed.
samsung says minimum 18 month.
forever
I think google-android needs to create a way that as long as your phone can support the new android version every phone should be able to at least download the software needed if the carrier stopped sending updates for the phone!
I think phones should be supported for 24 months because a lot of people are on contract and it would be nice to get a phone with Android 2.3 and at the end of the contract, get an upgrade to 4.2 Jelly Bean.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
It also has to do with Manufacturers not knowing what Google is coming up next.
Future software tech may not be compatible with current hardware tech. Some things are the lack of space, incompatibilities with manufacturer skins and mods.
Google should give a relevant framework and layout of future android development so that current devices can be future proofed. It will also reduce testing time for updates to each device and reduce disappointing withdrawal of support because of incompatibilities (like the xperia play for example).
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2
i want to update my phone in 1-2 months:silly:
phones (and every other thing that can be updated) should always be supported as long as possible, much like what apple does (i hate their policies, but props to them for the updates though)
i mean they update every idevice to the latest software version as long as the hardware is capable of running it well. i believe it should be like so with all the phones. but then again, some companies have so many models that they have no possible way of doing this due to lack of resources... ugh.. what a pickle, huh ?
so as a compromise id say support should last 2 years
Honestly, I've been using android since it first started and this is the most dead forum for development I've ever been on. I think this is a great phone, is there something I'm missing as to why it died off so quickly? Or is this simply how tech is evolving now, and since people upgrade so frequently, essentially by the time you buy a phone you cannot even count on a dev community anymore, or at least not for more than a couple months. That means custom roms depend on the companies roms, so for the most part you're just going to get tweaked stock roms, and when you get ditched by the company, you're stuck on that android version forever. With the way companies update (or lack thereof), I'm going to end up being pushed away from android. I used to rely on the community, and frequently donated. If using android means buying a new phone every three months so as to avoid getting left behind, count me out
I'm no expert, but it could also be because of the Exynos. I've read that it's much easier to develop for Snapdragon.
C_Karhu said:
I'm no expert, but it could also be because of the Exynos. I've read that it's much easier to develop for Snapdragon.
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That is definitely a factor for sure, but even for custom kernels, etc. It is very slow. Seems like users ditched out in droves. I've had other exynos devices that didn't die nearly as quickly.
An executive order has been signed by Trump banning Huawei in the US...
Also Qualcomm (QCOM) may have to apply for US export licenses to continue supplying technology to Huawei.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/15/tech/trump-executive-order-telecom-security/index.html
Why worry about Huawei when Google, facebook and the countries intelligence are already spying.
I think the problem lies with 5G, Huawei are trying the set up the infrastructure for 5G across Asia, Europe and the US amongst over areas. Which means that they'll have a back door to almost everything connected to 5G.
5G will connect to everything, even LED lights in your home which basically gives them a 3D view of every area 5G covers. Whoever has access to it will know where you are nearly all the time.
The timing makes it obvious the steps against Huawei is derivative of the US trade war with China rather than concerns over spying.
warea said:
The timing makes it obvious the steps against Huawei is derivative of the US trade war with China rather than concerns over spying.
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I wonder if it makes sense to care about that. Huawei prices are dropping and people try to sell there used phones. A good moment to buy something like that.
Am I totally wrong in thinking that Trump will probably not stop xda developers from developing updates for Huawei phones? If so I do not care about Huaweis updates or wether they include Gapps
But sadly XDA is not able to develop updates for Huawei beacause of locked bootloader etc, so what you are trying to say is......?
EnormoDerClown said:
But sadly XDA is not able to develop updates for Huawei beacause of locked bootloader etc, so what you are trying to say is......?
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I do not own a huawei phone (yet) and am still investigating about existing roms. Is there really no easy way to unlock bootloader for huawei devices in general? That would definitely stop me from buying huawei.
BTW: of you quote me I see your post faster
daniu said:
I do not own a huawei phone (yet) and am still investigating about existing roms. Is there really no easy way to unlock bootloader for huawei devices in general? That would definitely stop me from buying huawei.
BTW: of you quote me I see your post faster
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No there is no easy way, even no way at all at the moment.
I am quite relaxed at the moment, for existing phones there will still be support, future phones could be a HUGE problem. But to be honest, A LOT switch their phones after 2 years or even before, so most people will not be touched by this ban who are currently owning this awesome phone.
I don't think Huawei spies. Even if they did, are they the only big players who do it?
US already spies on their citizens and on the world - Edward Snowden told the world and now he's not allowed back into his country. Facebook also sells your data if you remember that Cambridge Analytica drama.
Do people just forget what's happened?
Agree, i am total sure that Apple has a file with my data and i didn´t even touched an apple device in my life
that doesn´t make spying good, but i also think huawei is not doing more/less than the rest
EnormoDerClown said:
No there is no easy way, even no way at all at the moment.
I am quite relaxed at the moment, for existing phones there will still be support, future phones could be a HUGE problem. But to be honest, A LOT switch their phones after 2 years or even before, so most people will not be touched by this ban who are currently owning this awesome phone.
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this is not my attitude towards phones. Mine is rather: use the device until warranty is over (or a bit earlier) then root and install a custom rom and use the phone until it is really dead. Unfortunately it seems like that did not take too long on my Asus Zenfone selfie ...
I also use phones quite long, but really a lot people get a new one every year or every two years by contract. The same people which are now selling their phones because of panic^^
if you plan on using custom rom/modification huawei is not suitable for you, it is just not possible. maybe the android ban will change something, but nobody can say that, you will have to wait to see what will happen.
Since no one else has said it on this thread let me be the first, Trump is an idiot, when he's gone the whole world will be better for it. He can't even honor D-day survivors without making it all about him, the ultimate draft dodger.