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Hi everyone,
I'm a writer for LockerGnome.com and currently putting together an article exploring Google's new Android strategy. I'm looking for some opinions, particularly from developers, about what Google's new strategy portends for ROM development.
In a nutshell, here's Google's new strategy for Android: It will be giving multiple mobile-device makers early access to new releases of Android and to sell those devices directly to consumers. (Search "site:wsj.com google" for the Wall Street Journal's report. Hopefully you'll be able to access the link I've provided, but if not: Essentially, Google will be offering consumers more phones to purchase with a "vanilla Android" experience; they will then be able to take these phones to the cellular carrier of their choice. A researcher quoted in the article believes that Google is moving toward a more iOS-like experience, with less variance among devices.
What I'd like to know is what those in this community feel will result due to this new strategy. Since they're may be less variances among future Android devices, will there be less of a demand for "vanilla-ized" Android ROMs? My understanding of CyanogenMod is that one of its main appeals is that it allows for users to experience a plain, "vanilla" Android on devices -- with enough new devices already offering a pure, bloatware-less Android, will the CyanogenMod scene begin to fade in relevance?
Please let me know if I can use any of your comments in my article, and let me also know how you would like to be attributed if I use your comment(s). (Private message me, if you'd like, with a link to one of your online profiles or a website that you run, or some such thing.)
Thanks!
I'm a writer for LockerGnome and
well i dont think its gonna be an iOS-like experience at all, its all gonna be pretty much the same cept we'll have 5 nexuses, manufacturers are still gonna be making their devices with their 'OEM skins' just the like theyre doing it now. i also can feel like manufacturers are gonna release same device theyll have as nexus with their skin on top (picture the One X with the option to choose if you want it with sense or with vanilla/stock android) kinda like the Desire Z and the T Mobile G2, its gonna be even better for us flashaholics cause well be able to flash more ROMs
also Cyanogenmod its gonna keep growing cause even if its AOSP based they add their own optimizations making the experience even better, every more and more people are flashing that particular ROM even if their device has vanilla android already in it
nonione said:
well i dont think its gonna be an iOS-like experience at all, its all gonna be pretty much the same cept we'll have 5 nexuses, manufacturers are still gonna be making their devices with their 'OEM skins' just the like theyre doing it now. i also can feel like manufacturers are gonna release same device theyll have as nexus with their skin on top (picture the One X with the option to choose if you want it with sense or with vanilla/stock android) kinda like the Desire Z and the T Mobile G2, its gonna be even better for us flashaholics cause well be able to flash more ROMs
also Cyanogenmod its gonna keep growing cause even if its AOSP based they add their own optimizations making the experience even better, every more and more people are flashing that particular ROM even if their device has vanilla android already in it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your comments. So with the introduction of more "Vanilla" Android devices, you believe the "flashaholic" community will continue to grow? Won't the majority of consumers who purchase the unlocked Android devices no longer have a reason to flash their devices? It's obvious that "flashaholics" enjoy optimizing and overclocking their phones (even at the expense of other things, such as battery life) -- but don't you think most consumers would prefer not to void their warranty (and would generally opt for better battery duration rather than a speed boost)?
You can use anything. Please attribute me as "lalop".
Note: An important distinction to make (not having the article at hand, I'm not sure if the researcher made it himself): Google is attempting to reduce the variance in the software of Android phones. In terms of hardware, it is the complete opposite. Encouraging competition between multiple Nexii will ensure that only the most cutting-edge designs are sent in. Without any OEM differentiation on the software, the contest truly becomes that of the best manufacturing. (This means no more half-assed Nexus specs/accessories *cough Samsung cough*.)
charssun said:
What I'd like to know is what those in this community feel will result due to this new strategy. Since they're may be less variances among future Android devices, will there be less of a demand for "vanilla-ized" Android ROMs? My understanding of CyanogenMod is that one of its main appeals is that it allows for users to experience a plain, "vanilla" Android on devices -- with enough new devices already offering a pure, bloatware-less Android, will the CyanogenMod scene begin to fade in relevance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CyanogenMod turns OEM skins into AOSP, that is true, but the result can hardly be called "vanilla". The "Mod" itself adds so much customization and speed that, as I noticed firsthand from using the Galaxy Nexus, the stock ROM and CM9 aren't really comparable at all.
Now, you talk about "vanilla-ized" ROMs, but I would suggest this is a misnomer. Yes, anyone can compile AOSP if they just want a "vanilla" ROM, but there's almost no point to just stopping there and going no further. The ROM and/or kernel are just begging for your tweaks, your mild improvements, and this is precisely what drives the homebrew developer.
As such, it turns out that almost every custom ROM has something differentiating it from the original; even the so-called "vanilla experiences" are generally designed to be smoother and have better battery life. No number of stock phones from Google could possibly reduce the demand for (nor the incentive to create) such things. So I would say that the answer is "no" on all accounts.
---
Now, the effect of multiple Nexii on homebrewing that would worry me is "fragmentation" (though not in the usual sense of the word). Having five Nexuses would effectively detrone each one from its former pedestal as the (no pun intended) Nexus of development. Since most homebrew developers would probably not purchase all five (and would have a harder time maintaining all versions even if they did), this could end up having an adverse effect on their development. Although having a fleet of Nexus is practically a dream come true, I fear that five may be too many, and may unintentionally compromise their development as a whole.
Now, as pointed out by lazaro here, this would not affect ROM development per se, only low level stuff like kernels. The obvious way I can think of to avoid the issue is to mandate similar hardware for all the Nexus - and yet I feel this is undesirable. After all, competition is key here, and I'm sure we're also all waiting for our Nexus Note™, of course! *hint hint*
http://t.co/9rTNXkvM
Here are some of my thoughts on the matter.
I am more excited about this than I have been for any other Android news ever! I am ready to get out of the continuous contacts and upgrade dates, especially the high prices for service.
As far as development goes, some of the best development has been done on Nexus devices, except of course the hd2... What will be good for manufacturers is that they will receive earlier updates for android allowing them to tweak their proprietary versions sooner allowing quicker updates!
For custom rom's you will see a lot of activity.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
thebobp said:
You can use anything. Please attribute me as "lalop".
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Thank you for taking the time to post your comments; my own response to yours is below.
thebobp said:
Note: An important distinction to make (not having the article at hand, I'm not sure if the researcher made it himself): Google is attempting to reduce the variance in the software of Android phones. In terms of hardware, it is the complete opposite. Encouraging competition between multiple Nexii will ensure that only the most cutting-edge designs are sent in. Without any OEM differentiation on the software, the contest truly becomes that of the best manufacturing. (This means no more half-assed Nexus specs/accessories *cough Samsung cough*.)
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Click to collapse
I was vague in my description of what was mentioned about device variance in the article. Here's exactly what the writer of the article stated:
Rajeev Chand, head of research at Rutberg & Co., said Android has become a kind of "Wild West" in which app developers have struggled to make sure apps are compatible with hundreds of different Android-powered devices. Both device makers and carriers have left their imprint on devices, meaning the "customer experience is highly variant", he said.
Mr. Chand said Google's shift appears to be a move "to create a more standardized experience for consumers and app developers," similar to that of Apple.
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Does that fit what you're asserting?
thebobp said:
CyanogenMod turns OEM skins into AOSP, that is true, but the result can hardly be called "vanilla". The "Mod" itself adds so much customization and speed that, as I noticed firsthand from using the Galaxy Nexus, the stock ROM and CM9 aren't really comparable at all.
Now, you talk about "vanilla-ized" ROMs, but I would suggest this is a misnomer. Yes, anyone can compile AOSP if they just want a "vanilla" ROM, but there's almost no point to just stopping there and going no further. The ROM and/or kernel are just begging for your tweaks, your mild improvements, and this is precisely what drives the homebrew developer.
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The term Vanilla is how the CyanogenMod "look" is described at http://www.cyanogenmod.com/about. I should have recognized that there is a world of difference between aesthetics and performance. Thanks for pointing that out.
thebobp said:
As such, it turns out that almost every custom ROM has something differentiating it from the original; even the so-called "vanilla experiences" are generally designed to be smoother and have better battery life. No number of stock phones from Google could possibly reduce the demand for (nor the incentive to create) such things. So I would say that the answer is "no" on all accounts.
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I don't have any experience with iOS devices; is there a similar incentive to modify iPhones and iPads purchased directly from Apple?
thebobp said:
Now, the effect of multiple Nexii on homebrewing that would worry me is "fragmentation" (though not in the usual sense of the word). Having five Nexuses would effectively detrone each one from its former pedestal as the (no pun intended) Nexus of development. Since most homebrew developers would probably not purchase all five (and would have a harder time maintaining all versions even if they did), this could end up having an adverse effect on their development.
Although having a fleet of Nexus is practically a dream come true, I fear that five may be too many, and may unintentionally compromise their development as a whole.
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One thing to note: Google will be working with "as many as five manufacturers at a time to create a portfolio of 'Nexus' lead devices that include smartphones and tablets." To me, this doesn't necessarily imply just give devices -- there could be a few devices from each manufacturer.
thebobp said:
Now, as pointed out by lazaro here, this would not affect ROM development per se, only low level stuff like kernels. The obvious way I can think of to avoid the issue is to mandate similar hardware for all the Nexus - and yet I feel this is undesirable. After all, competition is key here, and I'm sure we're also all waiting for our Nexus Note™, of course! *hint hint*
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Thanks again for your views. If I use your comments I'll be sure to attribute them to "lalop"; is there also a URL you are associated with that I may link to? If you prefer privacy, that's perfectly understandable. Also: Are you a developer?
Hi! This is my first post on XDA.
As a user of CM for more than a year ago on my i9300, and after enduring a lot of bugs, I wonder: What happens to CM?
It's a known fact that the Exynos platform is a headache for developers because there is no documentation or open sources from Samsung. So, things like the camera, the sound system, the HDMI output and the GPU do not work as they should.
However, here are many good developers who have fixed these bugs, or at least improve them a bit. And most of these fixes are open source and accessible by everyone on Github.
So, what is waiting CM to implement them? Giving credit to their authors, obviously.
CyanogenMod announces itself as an alternative to the stock firmware that lets you take full advantage of your smartphone, making it better and more stable. Now they are also a company: Cyanogen Inc. As a reputable brand, it should offer a higher quality firmware. ROMs like Nameless (I'm using it right now) works better even being "not official".
This is just an opinion as a user. I'm not criticizing or forcing anyone to do anything. But if there are hundreds of people using a ROM with bugs that were fixed, why not implement them? I would be the first to help, but my skills are just about webdev.
Respect and thanks for i9300 developers on XDA, and sorry about my bad English. When I use my native language I express myself MUCH better. Trust me. lol
Thanks for reading.
There's no i9300 maintainer, and they accept pull requests (on gerrit) when somebody sends them.
Also, the fact that there's no i9300 maintainer is directly connected with what you already said - lack of proper documentation. Nobody wants to fix the mess that has been created since whole this time. The amount of hacks required to make AOSP work on i9300 is too damn high. I'm slowly fixing this mess, making i9300 a bit better supported, but it's still a long way until it's done. Take a look at ArchiKernel for example, why I had to create my own kernel? Because smdk4412 sources were so much outdated that they finished around update7, right after sudden death fix. XXELLA, 4.1.2 Android times, hello. So first thing was to cleanup the kernel mess, use up-to-date samsung sources (used for stocks) and make them work with AOSP. Now, if I commit my work to CM, they'll deny this instantly because new kernel supports only i9300 and this commit would break all other exynos4 variants from compiling. Yes, together we COULD fix it, make it work with other devices. But I have better things to do than trying to fix whole exynos4 family, I focus on i9300.
This is one of the reasons why we won't see any official cm12 nightly for i9300. Because nobody is going to maintain that. Even if we can fix something, nobody is going to commit that, unless we put serious effort for making it universal across all supported devices.
That's a real shame the device is in such a mess.
Actually, to be fair, using Omnirom 4.4.4, I'm finding that the only thing that doesn't work properly is the notification led (no one seems to know why it only works 3 times out of 4).
I'll probably end up buying a new phone next year, anyway, since buy this time next year the i9300 will be almost 4 years old. In smartphone terms, that means it's getting along a bit.
(oh, and thanks for all your work on it, JustArchi!)
JustArchi said:
There's no i9300 maintainer, and they accept pull requests (on gerrit) when somebody sends them.
Also, the fact that there's no i9300 maintainer is directly connected with what you already said - lack of proper documentation. Nobody wants to fix the mess that has been created since whole this time. The amount of hacks required to make AOSP work on i9300 is too damn high. I'm slowly fixing this mess, making i9300 a bit better supported, but it's still a long way until it's done. Take a look at ArchiKernel for example, why I had to create my own kernel? Because smdk4412 sources were so much outdated that they finished around update7, right after sudden death fix. XXELLA, 4.1.2 Android times, hello. So first thing was to cleanup the kernel mess, use up-to-date samsung sources (used for stocks) and make them work with AOSP. Now, if I commit my work to CM, they'll deny this instantly because new kernel supports only i9300 and this commit would break all other exynos4 variants from compiling. Yes, together we COULD fix it, make it work with other devices. But I have better things to do than trying to fix whole exynos4 family, I focus on i9300.
This is one of the reasons why we won't see any official cm12 nightly for i9300. Because nobody is going to maintain that. Even if we can fix something, nobody is going to commit that, unless we put serious effort for making it universal across all supported devices.
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Thanks for answering my topic. The opinion of a developer like you is very appreciated.
This situation only seems to give more reasons for not buy a Samsung phone again. This lack of support from the manufacturer is a disrespect to the user's investment. And fragmentation strikes again. Sad but true.
Thanks again for your great work of keeping this device alive for all of us.
StephenJSweeney said:
That's a real shame the device is in such a mess.
Actually, to be fair, using Omnirom 4.4.4, I'm finding that the only thing that doesn't work properly is the notification led (no one seems to know why it only works 3 times out of 4).
I'll probably end up buying a new phone next year, anyway, since buy this time next year the i9300 will be almost 4 years old. In smartphone terms, that means it's getting along a bit.
(oh, and thanks for all your work on it, JustArchi!)
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I tried OmniROM few months ago, but it had some annoying bugs (like camera crashes) and I missed some customizations of CyanogenMod. Anyway, I'll try it again. My next buy might be a Motorola phone. The AOSP support is priceless.
ouch01 said:
I tried OmniROM few months ago, but it had some annoying bugs (like camera crashes) and I missed some customizations of CyanogenMod. Anyway, I'll try it again. My next buy might be a Motorola phone. The AOSP support is priceless.
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Click to collapse
I had the camera crash on CM11 M11, and switched over to Omnirom shortly after that. I'm using Google Camera with an Omnirom nightly from November, and I've never had a camera crash.
Agree with you about getting a Motorola. I'd love it if the next Moto G refresh (if there is one) came with some more RAM, increased storage (16GB instead of 8), 4G, and a multicolour led. Being able to customize the colours to suit the category of app is something I love about custom ROMs. That should be baked into Android, to be honest (but at least there's LightFlow).
JustArchi said:
There's no i9300 maintainer, and they accept pull requests (on gerrit) when somebody sends them.
Also, the fact that there's no i9300 maintainer is directly connected with what you already said - lack of proper documentation. Nobody wants to fix the mess that has been created since whole this time. The amount of hacks required to make AOSP work on i9300 is too damn high. I'm slowly fixing this mess, making i9300 a bit better supported, but it's still a long way until it's done. Take a look at ArchiKernel for example, why I had to create my own kernel? Because smdk4412 sources were so much outdated that they finished around update7, right after sudden death fix. XXELLA, 4.1.2 Android times, hello. So first thing was to cleanup the kernel mess, use up-to-date samsung sources (used for stocks) and make them work with AOSP. Now, if I commit my work to CM, they'll deny this instantly because new kernel supports only i9300 and this commit would break all other exynos4 variants from compiling. Yes, together we COULD fix it, make it work with other devices. But I have better things to do than trying to fix whole exynos4 family, I focus on i9300.
This is one of the reasons why we won't see any official cm12 nightly for i9300. Because nobody is going to maintain that. Even if we can fix something, nobody is going to commit that, unless we put serious effort for making it universal across all supported devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i feel you
SlimRoms is the answer
unlike CM, Slim has a I9300 maintainer, has support, every weekly update works properly.
Devs should really take a look at Slim's Gerrit and Freenode/#SlimDev
StephenJSweeney said:
I had the camera crash on CM11 M11, and switched over to Omnirom shortly after that. I'm using Google Camera with an Omnirom nightly from November, and I've never had a camera crash.
Agree with you about getting a Motorola. I'd love it if the next Moto G refresh (if there is one) came with some more RAM, increased storage (16GB instead of 8), 4G, and a multicolour led. Being able to customize the colours to suit the category of app is something I love about custom ROMs. That should be baked into Android, to be honest (but at least there's LightFlow).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing with Motorola is that their stock roms are basically just stock android. No laggy touchwiz skins, just a google launcher. Bloatware is at a minimum. A low spec phone like the moto G still is great because of how vanilla its experience is.
Rumours have it that the galaxy S6 international variant will have an exynos processor. I found a thread comparing the leaked info of the snapdragon 810 vs the next exynos processor and it seems that the exynos is getting a lot of popularity from users on the thread and it ain't no slouch. As it is now, phone's are so fast, that it's very hard to find a way of improving them. Like who compares app opening times nowadays? That will be much the case for 2015's flagships as well. I doubt I'd be disappointed if I had the next Samsung release if I thought I'd be in for a laggy UI, it's just whether I can tolerate the touchwiz experience or if I wanna switch to a vanilla aosp rom. That's where the problem arises.
arashvenus said:
SlimRoms is the answer
unlike CM, Slim has a I9300 maintainer, has support, every weekly update works properly.
Devs should really take a look at Slim's Gerrit and Freenode/#SlimDev
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Click to collapse
But only in your imagination. There is noone at slimrom. Just check their gerrit.
whatsgood said:
Rumours have it that the galaxy S6 international variant will have an exynos processor .... I found a thread comparing the leaked info of the snapdragon 810 vs the next exynos processor and it seems that the exynos is getting a lot of popularity from users on the thread and it ain't no slouch.
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Aren't the Exynos processors the cause of much grief in the open source community, though? Aren't Qualcomm processors, such as the Snapdragon, much more popular because they're easier to work with..?
StephenJSweeney said:
Aren't the Exynos processors the cause of much grief in the open source community, though? Aren't Qualcomm processors, such as the Snapdragon, much more popular because they're easier to work with..?
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Correct.
Eleve11 said:
Correct.
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Well then, no more Samsung phones for me, then. Not unless they use Qualcomm..!
StephenJSweeney said:
Aren't the Exynos processors the cause of much grief in the open source community, though? Aren't Qualcomm processors, such as the Snapdragon, much more popular because they're easier to work with..?
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Yes, that's what i thought but people are showing interests due to how powerful the processor is. I think they're saying it's more powerful than the snapdragon 810. I'm not that techy but they were mentioning that the new exynos will be smaller in size or something, whilst the snapdragon will be bigger. Apparently smaller is better, but yes the problem is open sourcing. If you want to install a stock android custom rom, it will be difficult for developers to build a rom that can push your phone to it's full potential. Snapdragon doesn't have this problem.
Basically if you love flashing different roms that are fully functional a snapdragon 810 phone is for you. If you like what Samsung offers in it's next flagship and won't be tempted to flash other roms then the exynos is for you
whatsgood said:
Yes, that's what i thought but people are showing interests due to how powerful the processor is. I think they're saying it's more powerful than the snapdragon 810. I'm not that techy but they were mentioning that the new exynos will be smaller in size or something, whilst the snapdragon will be bigger. Apparently smaller is better, but yes the problem is open sourcing. If you want to install a stock android custom rom, it will be difficult for developers to build a rom that can push your phone to it's full potential. Snapdragon doesn't have this problem.
Basically if you love flashing different roms that are fully functional a snapdragon 810 phone is for you. If you like what Samsung offers in it's next flagship and won't be tempted to flash other roms then the exynos is for you
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I prefer to have less powerful processor, with full documentation how it works, rather than exynos and big giant hackish black box, which noone understands.
The problem is not with the exynos, but with Samsung. Judging from Exynos4, their kernel sources and own experience, exynos may look like it works, but amount of hacks and dirty workarounds to make it work, is too damn high. This could all be solved if Samsung changed their policy from "respect GPL, f*ck the rest" to "respect developers, show them that our SoC can be developer-friendly, too".
The problem is that we're not even 0.01% of Samsung sales, so why should they care. I'm not going to buy Samsung phone again, regardless if it has Snapdragon inside or not. The problem is not with the Exynos, the problem is in Samsung's policy.
JustArchi said:
I prefer to have less powerful processor, with full documentation how it works, rather than exynos and big giant hackish black box, which noone understands.
The problem is not with the exynos, but with Samsung. Judging from Exynos4, their kernel sources and own experience, exynos may look like it works, but amount of hacks and dirty workarounds to make it work, is too damn high. This could all be solved if Samsung changed their policy from "respect GPL, f*ck the rest" to "respect developers, show them that our SoC can be developer-friendly, too".
The problem is that we're not even 0.01% of Samsung sales, so why should they care. I'm not going to buy Samsung phone again, regardless if it has Snapdragon inside or not. The problem is not with the Exynos, the problem is in Samsung's policy.
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Yeah +1 for that. My next Phone will be definitly a Sony or a One plus. I think both are the developer friendliest in android ...
what for get android with huge ram but still lag? i won't go for android for sure. just stick with ios better. with android 8gb & asop, cm etc still can't fix the bugs. android received update so slow than ios.
khanmein said:
what for get android with huge ram but still lag? i won't go for android for sure. just stick with ios better. with android 8gb & asop, cm etc still can't fix the bugs. android received update so slow than ios.
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Yeah you are right but i think the most decent phone is the htc one......i would buy a windows phone rather than an iPhone
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qn8s4/new_impressive_lollipop_touchwiz_gives_nexus_line/
This is an interesting article on the new touchwiz that appears in android lollipop on the galaxy note 3. Surprisingly I can see nothing but praise from this person, apparently it seems to be running very well in comparison to touchwiz on KitKat. Is Samsung finally doing something good?
whatsgood said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qn8s4/new_impressive_lollipop_touchwiz_gives_nexus_line/
This is an interesting article on the new touchwiz that appears in android lollipop on the galaxy note 3. Surprisingly I can see nothing but praise from this person, apparently it seems to be running very well in comparison to touchwiz on KitKat. Is Samsung finally doing something good?
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its useless even if they port it to our i9300..1gb of ram..maybe its time to upgrade to more stronger phone..
I'm really interested in getting this phone, I have skipped the Note 8 until I see what this phone brings, and from what I saw at the presentation I looks like an AWESOME phone, but when I look at past Huawei flagships (mate 9, P9, etc) almost non-existing major updates, custom roms support and mods I start thinking if paying a premium price for a phone like this its really worth for a person like me who likes to play around with rooting, modding and installing custom roms in my devices or should I play safe and get a Samsung or Pixel device.
No. Do not buy Huawei if modding is important.
Non existent with previous mate 9 and barely with mate 8.
Across the board, it's not getting easier
intruda119 said:
No. Do not buy Huawei if modding is important.
Non existent with previous mate 9 and barely with mate 8.
Across the board, it's not getting easier
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I appreciate your answer, there are great devices but not for us.
yael20 said:
I'm really interested in getting this phone, I have skipped the Note 8 until I see what this phone brings, and from what I saw at the presentation I looks like an AWESOME phone, but when I look at past Huawei flagships (mate 9, P9, etc) almost non-existing major updates, custom roms support and mods I start thinking if paying a premium price for a phone like this its really worth for a person like me who likes to play around with rooting, modding and installing custom roms in my devices or should I play safe and get a Samsung or Pixel device.
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Click to collapse
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
zelendel said:
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
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Thanks for your answer, so that being the case, which phone(s) would you recommend me?
yael20 said:
Thanks for your answer, so that being the case, which phone(s) would you recommend me?
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If modding is your thing then I would look at something like one plus. Things to avoid are devices with dual partition setup. The pixel showed how much devs dont want to deal with that.
Things to look out for are things like kernel source being up to date which I hate to say knocks 90% of the China based OEM out of it. Maybe the Euro version of samsung devices might be OK but even they get little to no real devs support. I would look around the site. See what devices have real support. No I am not talking about tons of los based roms. That is not development. I mean real development with system mods and hardware tweaks.
zelendel said:
If modding is your thing then I would look at something like one plus.
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Unfortunately OnePlus sucks at many things that are important for many of us so I guess we don't have a choice.
zadox said:
Unfortunately OnePlus sucks at many things that are important for many of us so I guess we don't have a choice.
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Things like what? The one bonus is that with one plus it can be fixed for the most part as to where even the kernel code on huawei devices is useless.
zelendel said:
Things like what? The one bonus is that with one plus it can be fixed for the most part as to where even the kernel code on huawei devices is useless.
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Can we start with the MicroSD ?
zadox said:
Can we start with the MicroSD ?
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This I agree with but many of the OEM are opting out of sdcards ever since google removed all the code fore native sdcard support from android years ago. But to be hones 64gb is more then enough for a mobile device. Mix that with some common sense (backing up stuff. No I dont mean cloud backup lol)
zadox said:
Unfortunately OnePlus sucks at many things that are important for many of us so I guess we don't have a choice.
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I think the one plus is a good device with great specs, but I don't like it's design... May be due it's Iphoneish look lol
zelendel said:
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
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Why not? You can get systemless root (Exynos) or TWRP installed classic root (Snapdragon) for Note8.
Sure Knox and/or SafetyNet gets tripped, but that's the price to pay for rooting.
But you can root current flagship phones and there's plenty of modding community for Note8.
vasra said:
Why not? You can get systemless root (Exynos) or TWRP installed classic root (Snapdragon) for Note8.
Sure Knox and/or SafetyNet gets tripped, but that's the price to pay for rooting.
But you can root current flagship phones and there's plenty of modding community for Note8.
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Samsung based roms are not development. Samsung devices have sucked for development for years. This is why main stream developers don't get that device.
Ok, thanks for the info. I haven't followed the scene. Just installed a good LO fork on my Note3 and it is working wonders (sans NFC and GPS/camera performance is generic).
zelendel said:
To be honest you are better off not getting any flagship if you like modding. The pixel is a pain to dev for to the point that many devs are not getting the new pixel or even supporting it. Samsung well we all know that dev support for that is a joke.
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That being said , what are 3 phones that you can say "this is a good phone, and I can do all lot of things with it("? is the nexus 6p one of them? thanks for your help.
yael20 said:
That being said , what are 3 phones that you can say "this is a good phone, and I can do all lot of things with it("? is the nexus 6p one of them? thanks for your help.
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Yes. The 6p (minus the battery issues) is good for rom development. It will get support from 3rd parties for at least another 2 years.
I would say the one plus 3 or 3t
The nexus 6p
Any one of the Sony devices as they have a good development setup.
yael20 said:
I'm really interested in getting this phone, I have skipped the Note 8 until I see what this phone brings, and from what I saw at the presentation I looks like an AWESOME phone, but when I look at past Huawei flagships (mate 9, P9, etc) almost non-existing major updates, custom roms support and mods I start thinking if paying a premium price for a phone like this its really worth for a person like me who likes to play around with rooting, modding and installing custom roms in my devices or should I play safe and get a Samsung or Pixel device.
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@auras76 (confirmed via private message that he will be supporting Mate 10 and continue his awesome rom that he has for Mate 9 ->[ROM] RomAur-v2.2-[16/10]-[UB][7.0_Fw.b197]-FAST-STABLE :good:
yael20 said:
I think the one plus is a good device with great specs, but I don't like it's design... May be due it's Iphoneish look lol
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Problem with OP (I switched from OP5 to IP7+ just recently because I kept hearing rumors that OP5T/OP6 might come out and I was afraid the value might drop to a point where re-sale value is no longer profitable..IP7+ is awesome in many ways, but my initial goal was getting LG V30 but now it seems Mate 10 is much wiser choice because of its awesome screen to body ratio + 16:9 aspect ratio which currently IMO is way better than 18:9/18:9.5 considering full app support, including youtube and so on) is that it does not have its own identity - its basically an iphone clone design wise and with it you look like a wannabe iphone user . Its awesome in performance but that identity thing sucks + they recent actions where they discontinue a model even before 6 month span is just plain ridiculous (OP3 to OP3T and then OP3T to OP5 all done within 1 year)..
zelendel said:
Yes. The 6p (minus the battery issues) is good for rom development. It will get support from 3rd parties for at least another 2 years.
I would say the one plus 3 or 3t
The nexus 6p
Any one of the Sony devices as they have a good development setup.
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Sony is bad in development because their stupid DRM system.
El Solido said:
Sony is bad in development because their stupid DRM system.
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Tell that to the fact that they offer how to build aosp for their devices, have worked with developers on it as well as pretty much made the theme engine that susbstratum works off of.
Will there be loses. Sure but that is the difference between aosp and using code made for the device. You don't always get all the features of the device with aosp. But that is not the point of using aosp. It's to learn.
zelendel said:
Tell that to the fact that they offer how to build aosp for their devices, have worked with developers on it as well as pretty much made the theme engine that susbstratum works off of.
Will there be loses. Sure but that is the difference between aosp and using code made for the device. You don't always get all the features of the device with aosp. But that is not the point of using aosp. It's to learn.
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Yes, but with sony aosp you get 13% quality of camera comparing it to stock, so they are stupid.
Hi, I'm not an Android expert in any way but I'm prototyping an app that runs Tensorflow deep learning models for image processing on this tablet.
I convert various models from Keras to TF-Lite in various modes, trying to find the best-performing method - comparing normal FP32 with quantisation to FP16 and INT8, and running each in CPU mode and on the GPU and NNAPI delegates.
NNAPI is supposed to assign compatible operations to the chip that runs them fastest, ie most INT8 stuff to the Hexagon DSP. Except my timings show 8b models running faster in CPU, or no difference, or worse, like it's always falling back to CPU. Suspicious!
Looking at the ai-benchmark com ranking (sorry, new account, can't do links) rankings and comparing the Tab S6 with a high-performing SN855 device like the Galaxy S10+ shows that their CPU perf is more or less equal, but quantised perf is WAY too low on the Tab S6.
From the paper arxiv org 1810.01109.pdf
...Qualcomm delivers these drivers in the software images provided to its OEM customers, which then in turn determine when and how to include them to end devices: with their initial release or later over the air in subsequent software updates. As a result, their presence and actual version might vary significantly across the phones on the market.
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This suggests to me that Samsung haven't bothered including the NNAPI drivers for the tab S6! So what, they only do it for the premium products? Personally I'd say a £600 tab is pretty premium.
Am I right about this and if so is there anything I can do? Any way to get the drivers in, a custom ROM that includes them? I'd buy something else but there's not a lot of choice with tablets, this seems to be the most powerful one available. I'd love one with a Kirin 990 but no such thing exists yet AFAIK.
"Qualcomm’s first NNAPI driver for running quantized neural networks on Hexagon DSPs was introduced in the Android
O-MR1, though it was not used in any commercial devices
at that time and first appeared only later in the OnePlus 6
and Xiaomi Mi8 with the next Android version. In Android
P, these drivers got additional support for running float models on the Adreno GPU. Yet, they are currently not present
in the market."
I'd say there is little to no support by OEMs
gottahavit said:
...
I'd say there is little to no support by OEMs
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The ai-benchmark com ranking list (that i can't link) shows many Snapdragon 855 devices with high performance that can only be due to NNAPI support I believe. But anyway, as there aren't any better tablets about, I wonder if there's a way to make a ROM that adds those drivers? I know nothing about custom Android builds.
I know it just launched.But I just wanted to hear the opinions. OnePlus Nord 2 is pretty powerful phone, but it's a MediaTek Dimensity 1200. Normally OnePlus devices has great development support but as MediaTek device, do you think it will also have ROMs in the future?
Maybe, but we will have to wait till then.
I highly doubt. Don't keep your hopes too high. Look at the Nord CE 5G for a very recent example, in spite of having a Qualcomm proccy.
Oneplus has supposedly lost its charm after becoming Oppo.
Only hope lies for the 9T, if they can somehow figure out a way to keep the temperature/throttling low with the inherently shi*ty 888 and increase the battery life.
At least 1st thing , it should easy unlocking bootloader. (and has unbrick tool.)
Then let's hope if devs interesting this phone.
It's a bit early to suggest, but the chances of getting a custom rom with official support for Nord 2 is slim. MediaTek is the villain here. Developers cannot obtain the source code [not for free] for MediaTek chipset. Though enthusiasts may port other builds to this device for fun and experiment. Further development and official support is unlikely to happen. Either way let's hope for the best.
use fastboot flashing unlock to unlock the bootloader and wait for somebody to patch the boot.img. then lets root and wait for oneplus (hope!!!) to release the sources (though MTK has not been publishing, hope it changes)
It will probably not. I don't have a single example of MTK smartphones with custom roms. Tell me the contrary if it happened, I'm not an expert. Too bad.
mirakle said:
It will probably not. I don't have a single example of MTK smartphones with custom roms. Tell me the contrary if it happened, I'm not an expert. Too bad.
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Exactly, this should really detract companies from using their proccys but they still go to them for really cheap stuff. And people (((enthusiats))) that buy phones with MTK are really to blame. If people boycott these pathetic closed-ended devices, these manufacturers would be bound to skip such shady manufacturers or pay them extra for their source-code to be released.
I believe the sole reason MTK is cheaper because they don't reveal their source and saves them the cost on extra licensing and stuff. If they did, it might even be more expensive than Qualcomm. Although, recent Qualcomm proccys have been nice little portable electricity using inefficient frying pans, we could still say the future is bright with their market practices being sorted and waiting for the next-next gen, when they switch back to the good'ol TSMC fabrication. Samsung fabrication is really pathetic, everybody knows but they still stick to making processors, makes me sick sometimes.
[email protected] said:
I know it just launched.But I just wanted to hear the opinions. OnePlus Nord 2 is pretty powerful phone, but it's a MediaTek Dimensity 1200. Normally OnePlus devices has great development support but as MediaTek device, do you think it will also have ROMs in the future?
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Well it depends.People have a misconception that mediatek doesn't support custom roms.But it's not entirely true.Take the case of redmi note 8 pro.It has more than 20 custom roms available and also good gcam support.In the initial stages it was struggling to get a custom rom,due to brick issues.Later developers figured out a way to unbrick the phone ,and now it's easy to unbrick if something goes wrong.
So what I'm saying is just wait for developers to pick this phone and if it becomes popular and if there's a way to unbrick for free ,then yeah surely custom rom developement will be there .
DREECOL said:
Well it depends.People have a misconception that mediatek doesn't support custom roms.But it's not entirely true.Take the case of redmi note 8 pro.It has more than 20 custom roms available and also good gcam support.In the initial stages it was struggling to get a custom rom,due to brick issues.Later developers figured out a way to unbrick the phone ,and now it's easy to unbrick if something goes wrong.
So what I'm saying is just wait for developers to pick this phone and if it becomes popular and if there's a way to unbrick for free ,then yeah surely custom rom developement will be there .
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Nah! not going to happen. Sad but true fact. May be one or two lackluster half-baked ROMs here and there but it'll be foolhardy to expect quality stuff coming for this phone.
mirakle said:
It will probably not. I don't have a single example of MTK smartphones with custom roms. Tell me the contrary if it happened, I'm not an expert. Too bad.
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Is it that diffult to verify what you say?
Here is your exemple :
Redmi Note 8 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Othe
Improve your Redmi Note 8 Pro's battery life, performance, and look by rooting it and installing a custom ROM, kernel, and more.
forum.xda-developers.com
Others exist too...
LeDiable said:
Exactly, this should really detract companies from using their proccys but they still go to them for really cheap stuff. And people (((enthusiats))) that buy phones with MTK are really to blame. If people boycott these pathetic closed-ended devices, these manufacturers would be bound to skip such shady manufacturers or pay them extra for their source-code to be released.
I believe the sole reason MTK is cheaper because they don't reveal their source and saves them the cost on extra licensing and stuff. If they did, it might even be more expensive than Qualcomm. Although, recent Qualcomm proccys have been nice little portable electricity using inefficient frying pans, we could still say the future is bright with their market practices being sorted and waiting for the next-next gen, when they switch back to the good'ol TSMC fabrication. Samsung fabrication is really pathetic, everybody knows but they still stick to making processors, makes me sick sometimes.
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"the future is bright with their market practices"...
Are you serious? Qualcomm were condemned many time due to anticompetitive behavior!
Most competitors leaves the market due to patents abuse (LTE, CDMA), not tiny ones : Intel, NVIDIA, Texas Instruments, Broadcom, ST-Microelectronics.
And people like you applause!
Your name is LeDiable...a tiny evil...your master is Qualcomm...by far!
Ask Oneplus is they dont have the sources you're asking for. They have!
Even a deeper access (Mediatek Open Resource Architecture) than the have with Snapdragon : as Qualcomm's Hexagon sources are closes.
Plumplum88 said:
Is it that diffult to verify what you say?
Here is your exemple :
Redmi Note 8 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Othe
Improve your Redmi Note 8 Pro's battery life, performance, and look by rooting it and installing a custom ROM, kernel, and more.
forum.xda-developers.com
Others exist too...
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Click to collapse
You are right, my bad. I've only checked for a bunch of recent MTK phones I would have be interested in. And the Redmi Note 8 Pro wasn't one of them.
DREECOL said:
Well it depends.People have a misconception that mediatek doesn't support custom roms.But it's not entirely true.Take the case of redmi note 8 pro.It has more than 20 custom roms available and also good gcam support.In the initial stages it was struggling to get a custom rom,due to brick issues.Later developers figured out a way to unbrick the phone ,and now it's easy to unbrick if something goes wrong.
So what I'm saying is just wait for developers to pick this phone and if it becomes popular and if there's a way to unbrick for free ,then yeah surely custom rom developement will be there .
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Click to collapse
Unlock an OnePlus is very easy, even Nord 2 is no exception. Just enable OEM unlock in the developers settings, then reboot to BootLoader and use the command: fastboot flashing unlock.
OnePlus released Kernel Source for Nord 2
Happy News
Nord 2 Kernel
JvLTech said:
OnePlus released Kernel Source for Nord 2
Happy News
Nord 2 Kernel
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When should we expect custom roms for Nord 2?
Anuj7798 said:
When should we expect custom roms for Nord 2?
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As soon as you build it.
I would wait on custom recovery, root access, other things first.
Last time I built LineageOS for a new device it was pretty straight forward, but without working TWRP and/or MSM tools I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to try flashing anything.
hopefully custom roms start flowing in the xda and telegram space
mlgmxyysd said:
Unlock an OnePlus is very easy, even Nord 2 is no exception. Just enable OEM unlock in the developers settings, then reboot to BootLoader and use the command: fastboot flashing unlock.
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I don't have the Advanced Reboot option in developer settings, and when using hardware keys or adb to reboot to bootloader, I get a "the serial is not match, fastboot_unlock_verify ok" message on the screen.
Any ideas?
moisthat said:
I don't have the Advanced Reboot option in developer settings, and when using hardware keys or adb to reboot to bootloader, I get a "the serial is not match, fastboot_unlock_verify ok" message on the screen.
Any ideas?
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this is normal.... fastboot works with this screen... be sure to have the right drivers installed