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I've been taking some test shots with the mini pro camera, and I have to say I'm a bit let down.
Turns out the camera is a bit slower than I initially thought, and the pictures come out to be a pixelly mess.
I thought the dithering artifacts where only due to low light scenes, but it turns out I can see there artifacts with well let subjects.
The still frame camera does better than the video, but both suffer. Maybe Sony could do us a favor and have an option to remove in camera noise reduction. This would give us a chance to do better noise reduction in post to try and produce better quality results.
The video also suffers from cadence issues when outdoor light is very bright. I've seen this in dedicate video on stills cameras, it results in choppy video. I'd rather have smoother better quality low resolution video as compared to this dithered choppy mess of video.
Most of these artifacts are masked if you view video on the camera itself, but when you view them on your HDTV they are quite obvious.
Anyone have ideas on turning off the NR, I'd be happy to hear them.
Things you can do to help performance.
Set camera to fixed or infinity focus for faster response.
Use the sports mode for higher ISO shots, faster pics.
Use center weighted focusing.
Another interesting thing to note, I also happen to have the X10 mini pro. Looking at the phones side by side, the x10 has a slightly larger lens. I was a bit surprised at this change. I hope Sony makes an effort to bring better quality photo and video to the smart phones. Heck, they can make it their market differentiator.
Mike
hardware or software?
is it hardware problem or software? can video recording be improved through software upgrade?
irumbustalin said:
is it hardware problem or software? can video recording be improved through software upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly.
But you also have to realise that this is just a mobile phone, of course it isn't going to be as good as dedicated hardware.
irumbustalin said:
is it hardware problem or software? can video recording be improved through software upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't say if software is an issue, but I'm certain hardware is an issue.
1 thing they could do from a software POV is to have an option to remove noise reduction. Sony may be not want people to see what the photos look like without NR.
2: It's a physics thing, the lens is tiny and the sensor is even smaller. The sensor technology is another issue. The sensor can only collect so much light, this directly impacts it's a ability to produce better photos. Note that Sony has a higher quality sensor Exmor they decide to reserve for other cameras.
I was hoping the phone could produce video quality to rival something like a flip phone.
3: Keeping the lens clean. It's hard to do this with a phone you constantly hold in your hand without some sort of lens shield. My old W580i hid the lens when it was in the close position. It also had a nice smooth easy to clean lens surface. It was only 2MP, but took excellent photos.
There are a few more things I could play with in my quest for better photos. For one, I should make sure the image stabilizer isn't on when I take well lit photo samples.
One other interesting thing I noted is the maximum shutter speed I've been able to produce. The camera may max out at 1/125 sec. I was a bit surprised, that's kind of slow. I haven't gone to see what my other camera phone can do, but that in itself shows the weakness of the phone.
Several of the shots I took under what I would call bright/normal lighting produced 1/16th shutter speed. This makes it hard to get a blur free photo due to subject movement and camera shake.
I was able to compensate some using sports mode, but that increases the ISO which = more noisy photos.
Mike
Comparison to x10 mini pro
Just had the opportunity to take a look at a few photos my wife has taken with the x10 mini pro. Actually, based on the experience with this phone, I decided to wait for and buy the mini pro 2.
I was happy and at the same time sad to see how much better photos taken with the x10 mini appeared vs. the mini pro 2.
The colors, focus, as well as resolution was better. Also noted that the photo size was larger, near the 1.5M size I expected out of the mini pro 2 photos.
Also noticed the x10 mini is capable of ISO 40.
I compared the panorama type shot, the X10 fared better, but still not great in panorama detail, I guess that's o.k.
Also noticed the x10 camera options are significantly fewer than those on the mini pro 2. That's fine since the photos are of decent quality though it would be nice to have a bit more control over the photo options.
I'm certain Sony could at least do something about the photo compression being used in the Mini Pro 2, it would be nice if the camera could at least equal the x10 mini pro photo capability.
Mike
Hi all,
What's up with the z2 primary cam? I've got a nexus 5, an lg g2, a galaxy s3 here at home aside from the z2. The camera pics seem to be comparable to the nexus 5 or g2? I was expecting a lot better being all the branding and the megapixels at its disposal... The images seem to be drawn on sandpaper( grainy on zooming) I don't get why... being the hardware is present am I the only one with this issue or is this a software thing that needs to be fixed? Any cam mods that solve this? Cybershot mod or the xposed mod?
Thanks a ton in advance, I'm worried I'm the only one with the grainy images...
mokaigutti said:
Hi all,
What's up with the z2 primary cam? I've got a nexus 5, an lg g2, a galaxy s3 here at home aside from the z2. The camera pics seem to be comparable to the nexus 5 or g2? I was expecting a lot better being all the branding and the megapixels at its disposal... The images seem to be drawn on sandpaper( grainy on zooming) I don't get why... being the hardware is present am I the only one with this issue or is this a software thing that needs to be fixed? Any cam mods that solve this? Cybershot mod or the xposed mod?
Thanks a ton in advance, I'm worried I'm the only one with the grainy images...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was similarly surprised when looking at the photos that I take with my Z2... However, I think it's understandable. In Superior Auto mode, the resolution is only 8MP, so that could be why your images are looking similar to that of the N5 and G2... If you switch to manual mode and up the resolution to the full 20MP, the pictures are quite clearly much higher quality. You can zoom in after taking the photo and not lose much if any clarity. As for the graininess, you have to remember that they're fitting 20700000 pixels into an area of about 1cm^2, so they're going to be tiny pixels. This means not much light will reach them. Hence why HTC have gone for a 4MP main camera, but with much bigger, more light absorbing pixels to focus on getting the minimal amount of grain, whilst sacrificing some resolution (on the M8). So in short, there's nothing wrong with the camera, the reason it's grainy is because it's ultra sensitive to low light conditions. To get amazing high resolution images with the Z2, you'll need a well lit, well balanced environment. It's a good camera, but it is designed for great photos, and that means perfect environments are required. If you leave it on Superior Auto, it will take photos that are just fine and hold up to scrutiny against those of the Nexus 5 and LG G2, they just can't hold up to all the branding and advertising that Sony have been giving, since you are unlikely to get the perfect picture taking environment in every day usage. I suggest putting the camera on Manual mode and fiddling with the in depth settings when lining up a shot. Don't push it all the way up to 20MP as you lose the ability to do HDR or Stabilisation, but at 15MP with the correct exposure and ISO settings, the photos can look incredible.
Hope that cleared things up, and sorry if it answered none of your questions x'D
Most of the time superior auto produces just as good quality as 20mp manual, and no its an insult to compare camera to g2 or nexus5, its way better
Agree with what u said but the superior auto I find takes better snaps than the max resolution in most cases. And the reason why I'm disappointed is that it is indeed comparable to the other two, which indeed is an insult!
So everybody gets the grainy images on zooming then? And is this fixable via a firmware or software update?
Put up some originals so we can see what you mean.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5whd6h9620kemdu/DSC_0036.JPG untouched pic here... Is this the best I can get? ( I have 3 more similar shots, this is the best one of the bunch)
feis said:
Most of the time superior auto produces just as good quality as 20mp manual, and no its an insult to compare camera to g2 or nexus5, its way better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G2 with the camera mod available to it produced incredible photos and when I got my z2 I didn't really notice a difference other than the extreme amount of postprocessing that sometimes makes photos look like absolute crap... I just wished there was a way to remove all the processing of the image so we can tweak it ourselves
mokaigutti said:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5whd6h9620kemdu/DSC_0036.JPG untouched pic here... Is this the best I can get? ( I have 3 more similar shots, this is the best one of the bunch)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try to get slightly better with manual and iso 50, yours was iso 84 but the difference will only show up in zooming.
If you're not zooming in a 3.5MP photo will be sharper still.
---------- Post added at 04:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 AM ----------
mokaigutti said:
I've got a nexus 5, an lg g2, a galaxy s3 here at home aside from the z2. The camera pics seem to be comparable to the nexus 5 or g2? I was expecting a lot better being all the branding and the megapixels at its disposal...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a similar photo from those cameras. It's best to take a shot of a similar subject, same angle and lighting conditions and let's see what you are comparing with.
s3 & n5 are 8mp so are comparable. The g2 makes 13MP so you should reduce it to the same resolution as what you are comparing with.
mokaigutti said:
The images seem to be drawn on sandpaper( grainy on zooming) I don't get why... being the hardware is present am I the only one with this issue or is this a software thing that needs to be fixed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see a lot of grain in this picture with iso 84, zoomed in at 100%. Grain starts at 400-800 and beyond.
When the light goes down the others will struggle to keep up. They won't match video of z2 with the s3 coming the closest but stabilisation on the z2 will beat it. Z2 is a general purpose camera.
But those cameras have f2.4 or a half stop smaller apertures so this means more of the background will be in focus behind where you focus with the z2. This is the tradeoff for better bokeh and low light in video. But it only applies if you focus on a subject that is close.
mokaigutti said:
Thanks a ton in advance, I'm worried I'm the only one with the grainy images...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you put up a 20MP photo, try to take it with the on screen button instead of camera button as this reduces camera shake. Let's see how good your lens is.
xperia z1 ad z2 have poor processing algorithms. since the release of xperia z1 sony improved the image quality, but still needs improvements.
the grain in the pictures is NOT because of the tiny pixels, the xperia z2 has 1.175u pixels, larger than the 1.12u pixels in galaxy s5 and s4 for example, and both of them doesnt suffer from that level of grain and noise. if you take into consideration that sony has a bigger pixel, bigger sensor and resolution, wider aperture lens (can capture more light) than any other android smartphone and produces pictures comparable with an iphone 5 or gs4 with 1/3.2 sensor and f2.2 camera its a big shame for sony.
at 20mp you will have even more noise and grain. when shooting at 8Mp, the phone downsample the image utilizing the better pixels to provide a better picture (similar to what nokia does with its pureview lumia 1020 41Mp camera). shooting in manual mode is better for properly adjusting exposure, white balance and ISO, but the processing itself is the same, so apart from those parameters, nothing else will change
you can see the advantages of the big sensor and wide aperture lens in very low light videos for example. it produces much brighter and lower noise videos than others competitors, but the imaging from sony is terribly inconsistent. there is grain, noise and alias everywhere and and blur smeared inconsistently in pictures. and you can easily notice it in any picture taken with z1/z1c/z2. videos also suffers with lots of aliasing
with android L and the new and much improved camera API, lets hope from better camera firmwares from sony, and with DNG support, at least 3rd party camera apps will support it. then maybe we will have good quality pictures without the terrible post processing from sony
I guess the post processing is the problem. If I flash aosp or aokp the Google camera will use the stock processing right? And not sony's? Will that be better?
I'll try with the manual mode enabled and play with the iso as suggested as well.
And the 21mp are marginally worse than the superior auto so there isn't a point in uploading that... Ill upload pics from the 3 phones with a similar subject as suggested by today or tomorrow at the latest!
Thanks a ton for the feedback guys!
pepeo123 said:
xperia z1 ad z2 have poor processing algorithms. since the release of xperia z1 sony improved the image quality, but still needs improvements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
File sizes of z2 are larger than z1 so there is less processing in z2. The numerous complaints i saw with z1 picture quality are very few with z2 largely because auto in z2 does a better job. What does auto do better in z2 ? the same thing people did in manual with z1, use the lowest iso possible.
pepeo123 said:
but the imaging from sony is terribly inconsistent. there is grain, noise and alias everywhere and and blur smeared inconsistently in pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want consistent then you have to go with manual. No two ways about it.
Then you need to have a pretty good idea of how the sensor works in varying light conditions. You need to take loads of pictures to better understand which settings give the best picture depending on light. This is the same with any camera for that matter, assuming these others even allow some sort of manual intervention to begin with. With the g3 or moto x there is nothing, iphone is only marginally better in allowing exposure setting.
Don't want to do that ? then you will be taking 2 or 3 shots to get it right.
pepeo123 said:
if you take into consideration that sony has a bigger pixel, bigger sensor and resolution, wider aperture lens (can capture more light) than any other android smartphone and produces pictures comparable with an iphone 5 or gs4 with 1/3.2 sensor and f2.2 camera its a big shame for sony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try comparing a 20MP pic with the smaller resolutions of the others and see how much more you can zoom. There may be more artifiacts in some situations but details will be better preserved. An 8mp iphone 5 cannot have the same details as a 20MP from the z2. In the same way as 13MP from the g2/s4 or 16MP from the s5 will have more detail than a 8mp auto from z2.
---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------
mokaigutti said:
I guess the post processing is the problem. If I flash aosp or aokp the Google camera will use the stock processing right? And not sony's? Will that be better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doubtful. Or put it this way. i've yet to see someone make this claim in the z2 photo thread. For the simple reason that 3rd party apps cannot access iso setting in the camera libs. best camera app you can use is stock. The xposed mod allows to take auto in 20mp instead of 8mp. This i've seen to actually work. if you need it.
Whatever complaints people have about processing its better in the z2 than it is in the z1 when it came out. The only time i've seen the z1 do better is when there were lens issues with the reviewer's z2.
mokaigutti said:
And the 21mp are marginally worse than the superior auto so there isn't a point in uploading that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to check if the lens is ok. I've seen samples where 20MP are not as sharp with some models as others. See the pictures from this post.. Or even from an earlier post here.
Download the pictures from both posts and do a 1:1 compare, there is a subtle but noticeable difference between the two. This is a hardware defect and causes a softer than otherwise photo. You only see it in 20mp, 8mp will mask it.
What is the manufacturing date of your model ? should be in the format 14wxy, you will find it printed on a sticker under the micro-sd tray.
mokaigutti said:
Ill upload pics from the 3 phones with a similar subject as suggested by today or tomorrow at the latest!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah let's see the difference.
bear in mind that doing this sort of comparison on a sample size of a few pictures is tricky at best. Yes, in some instances some photos may be better, but what does it mean. You'd have to take many photos to draw a conclusion that this or that model is better than another, that too only in certain situations. Koreans tend to do more sharpening in their photos & videos which is perceived by some to be better. Debatable.
One Twelve said:
File sizes of z2 are larger than z1 so there is less processing in z2. The numerous complaints i saw with z1 picture quality are very few with z2 largely because auto in z2 does a better job. What does auto do better in z2 ? the same thing people did in manual with z1, use the lowest iso possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes the z2 pics are indeed larger (some are actualy 2x larger) probably mostly because lower compression. there is also processing changes too like you said, but both of them still badly processed. http://blog.gsmarena.com/sony-xperia-z2-vs-z1-camera-comparison/
One Twelve said:
If you want consistent then you have to go with manual. No two ways about it.
Then you need to have a pretty good idea of how the sensor works in varying light conditions. You need to take loads of pictures to better understand which settings give the best picture depending on light. This is the same with any camera for that matter, assuming these others even allow some sort of manual intervention to begin with. With the g3 or moto x there is nothing, iphone is only marginally better in allowing exposure setting.
Don't want to do that ? then you will be taking 2 or 3 shots to get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when i mean inconsistent, i dont mean that the camera is inconsistent trough various pictures(wich is, in superior auto, like you said, but can be solved shooting in manual adjusting correctly the parameters if you have enough knowledge in the equipment you are using, like you said too), i mean inconsistency in the picture itself. the picture is not uniform, it has random blured areas like if the lens was astigmatic or myopic giving the impression of a defocuesed image in some random areas (im not talking about the defective lens gsmarena unit)
http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=4238&idPhone3=6144&idCamera2=30013
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/ca...ng-Galaxy-S5,LG-G3/phones/8323,8202,8347?st=2
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/camera/Sony-Xperia-Z2,Samsung-Galaxy-S5,LG-G3/phones/8323,8202,8347
One Twelve said:
Try comparing a 20MP pic with the smaller resolutions of the others and see how much more you can zoom. There may be more artifiacts in some situations but details will be better preserved. An 8mp iphone 5 cannot have the same details as a 20MP from the z2. In the same way as 13MP from the g2/s4 or 16MP from the s5 will have more detail than a 8mp auto from z2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes at 20mp you will have much more deatil thanks to the much larger resolution, but when i mean it was a big shame, i mean that at 8mp, the xperia z2 has comparable if not worse pictures in some cases than iphone 5 or lg g3, gs5, etc even with all those hardware advantages of it. and this is again caused by the processing. lots of grain, noise, alias, blur, too high contrast, etc, etc, etc (yes noise can be reduced using lower iso in manual, but when i mean more noise, i mean more noise in the same iso settings as the competitors)
an interesting thing to note is that if you compare raw pictures of the nokia 1020 with the jpeg ones from it for example, there is a HUGE diference between them, and nokia is know from doing really good processing in cameras in general. so this makes me think how much extra performance can be achieved from the z seris with it great hardware
I'm just worried this could be a hardware issue, mine is a 14W21 phone. I'm gonna do some extensive photo sessions and if they don't work out maybe try a replacement
pepeo123 said:
yes the z2 pics are indeed larger (some are actualy 2x larger) probably mostly because lower compression. there is also processing changes too like you said, but both of them still badly processed. http://blog.gsmarena.com/sony-xperia-z2-vs-z1-camera-comparison/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, i checked the 20MP manual mode shots at 100% and can say the z2 shot is visibly better than the z1 if you look at the balcony railings left of centre and building detail right of centre.
gsmarenas z2's lens does not have any issues that i can notice. I don't know if the z1 lens is ok though.
pepeo123 said:
when i mean inconsistent, i dont mean that the camera is inconsistent trough various pictures(wich is, in superior auto, like you said, but can be solved shooting in manual adjusting correctly the parameters if you have enough knowledge in the equipment you are using, like you said too), i mean inconsistency in the picture itself. the picture is not uniform, it has random blured areas like if the lens was astigmatic or myopic giving the impression of a defocuesed image in some random areas (im not talking about the defective lens gsmarena unit)
http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=4238&idPhone3=6144&idCamera2=30013
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/ca...ng-Galaxy-S5,LG-G3/phones/8323,8202,8347?st=2
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/camera/Sony-Xperia-Z2,Samsung-Galaxy-S5,LG-G3/phones/8323,8202,8347
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, i see the underlined bit at 20MP with the z2 , but check out the SA of the iso chart from gsmareana (phonearena did not have SA images to compare)
http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=6033&idPhone3=6144&idCamera2=30013
Much clearer to see the chart in SA than 20MP isn't it. Note that you see same blur with 20MP here too.
I added z1 into comparison in phonearena's chart, can you see the difference between z1 & z2.
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/ca...ony-Xperia-Z1/phones/8323,8202,8347,8000?st=2
z1 is less blurred but the compression is much more than z2. If you try to reduce the size of the image in phonearena, the z2 image remains blurred but if you look at the SA, its much more clear as shown in gsmarena.
pepeo123 said:
yes at 20mp you will have much more deatil thanks to the much larger resolution, but when i mean it was a big shame, i mean that at 8mp, the xperia z2 has comparable if not worse pictures in some cases than iphone 5 or lg g3, gs5, etc even with all those hardware advantages of it. and this is again caused by the processing. lots of grain, noise, alias, blur, too high contrast, etc, etc, etc (yes noise can be reduced using lower iso in manual, but when i mean more noise, i mean more noise in the same iso settings as the competitors)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Underlined bit is somewhat true in good light, but not in low light.
Why the pictures look better, requires explanation of what better means. Did you see DxO's tests. compare z1, 5s, s5 & z2 on 7 parameters for still photo. Exposure, ontrast & Noise is very well controlled in the Z2. Artifacts is the only parameter where the Z2 trails the others. To notice that you will have to zoom into edges to see it. Not very apparent without zooming.
Exposure and contrast
---------------------
90 Apple iPhone 5s
88 Sony Xperia Z2
88 Samsung Galaxy S5
85 Sony Xperia Z1
80 LG G2
Colour
------
82 Apple iPhone 5S
82 Samsung Galaxy S5
80 Apple iPhone 5
77 Sony Xperia Z1
76 LG G2
74 Sony Xperia Z2
Autofocus
---------
84 Sony Xperia Z2
81 Apple iPhone 5S
74 LG G2
73 Sony Xperia Z1
69 Samsung Galaxy S5
Texture
-------
83 Sony Xperia Z2
78 Samsung Galaxy S5
69 LG G2
66 Sony Xperia Z1
59 Apple iPhone 5S
Noise
-----
84 Sony Xperia Z2
84 Sony Xperia Z1
83 LG G2
78 Samsung Galaxy S5
70 Apple iPhone 5S
Artifacts
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91 Apple iPhone 5S
89 LG G2
83 Samsung Galaxy S5
74 Sony Xperia Z1
68 Sony Xperia Z2
Flash
-----
85 Sony Xperia Z2
84 Sony Xperia Z1
83 Apple iPhone 5S
82 Samsung Galaxy S5
72 LG G2
DxOMark Still Photo (overall rank)
-------------------- -
81 Nokia 808 PureView
81 Sony Xperia Z2
80 Samsung Galaxy S5
78 Apple iPhone 5S
77 Sony Xperia Z1
77 LG G2
These are the differences observed after analysis of over 400 photos.
pepeo123 said:
an interesting thing to note is that if you compare raw pictures of the nokia 1020 with the jpeg ones from it for example, there is a HUGE diference between them, and nokia is know from doing really good processing in cameras in general. so this makes me think how much extra performance can be achieved from the z seris with it great hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is something we will only find out when android L comes out. having said that the oppo find 7a can output raw images from its 13MP sensor, and its a sony one to boot. Lumia 1520 can already output RAW.
The question that remains to be answered is, what is the shot to shot turnaround with RAW in a mobile phone. Without dedicated image processors that specialise in it things will be slow.
---------- Post added at 05:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 AM ----------
mokaigutti said:
I'm just worried this could be a hardware issue, mine is a 14W21 phone. I'm gonna do some extensive photo sessions and if they don't work out maybe try a replacement
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that is not an earlier build. i don't see anything to worry about given what little you have posted so far.
One Twelve said:
ok, i checked the 20MP manual mode shots at 100% and can say the z2 shot is visibly better than the z1 if you look at the balcony railings left of centre and building detail right of centre.
gsmarenas z2's lens does not have any issues that i can notice. I don't know if the z1 lens is ok though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes z2 is superior, i dont know right now since this review was done in older firmware and both z1 and z2 received some firmware upgrades and z1 is even in 4.4.4. the good new for z1 owners is that its possible to port the camera apk. for z1 like they did with the 4k mod, and therefore things will be the same
One Twelve said:
Yes, i see the underlined bit at 20MP with the z2 , but check out the SA of the iso chart from gsmareana (phonearena did not have SA images to compare)
http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=6033&idPhone3=6144&idCamera2=30013
Much clearer to see the chart in SA than 20MP isn't it. Note that you see same blur with 20MP here too.
I added z1 into comparison in phonearena's chart, can you see the difference between z1 & z2.
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/ca...ony-Xperia-Z1/phones/8323,8202,8347,8000?st=2
z1 is less blurred but the compression is much more than z2. If you try to reduce the size of the image in phonearena, the z2 image remains blurred but if you look at the SA, its much more clear as shown in gsmarena.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly, regarding the blurred areas, SA is better than 20mp downsampled to 8MP, and this could mean 2 things. either sony is using diferent processing, or the downsample algorithm is doing its job right. or maybe both. either way, this shows that sony has work to do
One Twelve said:
Underlined bit is somewhat true in good light, but not in low light.
Why the pictures look better, requires explanation of what better means. Did you see DxO's tests. compare z1, 5s, s5 & z2 on 7 parameters for still photo. Exposure, ontrast & Noise is very well controlled in the Z2. Artifacts is the only parameter where the Z2 trails the others. To notice that you will have to zoom into edges to see it. Not very apparent without zooming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes in low light the phone really shows its big sensor and wide aperture lens advantage, pictures are brighter and capture more, while others have darker pictures and less detailed, although the focus in low light is terrible, something that is possible to be corrected using manual mode. low light videos z2 crushes its oponents too, other phones look like they are in a darker place lol
One Twelve said:
This is something we will only find out when android L comes out. having said that the oppo find 7a can output raw images from its 13MP sensor, and its a sony one to boot. Lumia 1520 can already output RAW.
The question that remains to be answered is, what is the shot to shot turnaround with RAW in a mobile phone. Without dedicated image processors that specialise in it things will be slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, oppo, lumia 1020 and lumia 1520 can output raw and use sony sensors
maybe taking raw pictures is even faster, since it just takes the picture but doesnt process nothing else like it would do with JPEG,or maybe it could take longer because since its a large file, saving would take a little bit longer but? i really have no knowledge in what i am talking about here, so this is purely an speculation made by me
I was being dumb by comparing the images on the respective phone displays... On transferring them to my laptop the z2 has visibly better images overall, especially low light this is the good news... The bad news is the presence of graininess on full zoom. This is normal? (spoilt solid by previous phones, Sony satio, Nokia n8, and the best one n82)
mokaigutti said:
I was being dumb by comparing the images on the respective phone displays... On transferring them to my laptop the z2 has visibly better images overall, especially low light this is the good news... The bad news is the presence of graininess on full zoom. This is normal? (spoilt solid by previous phones, Sony satio, Nokia n8, and the best one n82)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Full zoom graininess? You realize there isn't a single phone that isn't completely grainy at full zoom right? Literally not one.... Because the zoom is digital vs optical.
TechSavvy2 said:
Full zoom graininess? You realize there isn't a single phone that isn't completely grainy at full zoom right? Literally not one.... Because the zoom is digital vs optical.
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Click to collapse
Sorry I didn't mean zooming in during the shot, I meant after the shot is taken... In the album app. I just feel spoilt after seeing the first page of the"post your z2 snaps here" post.
mokaigutti said:
I was being dumb by comparing the images on the respective phone displays... On transferring them to my laptop the z2 has visibly better images overall, especially low light this is the good news...
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The opposite can also apply, photos can look good on the z2 screen and when transferred over to a laptop appear dull or washed out. Simple reason is photo was taken in too much light ie sun light. The wider aperture and bsi sensor means chances of over exposure are more than with other cameras that do not do as well in low light or have narrower apertures. So you will have to use -EV if colours do not appear natural or alternatively take photos in softer light rather than harsh light. You have to understand how light works to get the best photos with any camera.
So ensure bravia engine is switched off in the Z2 otherwise you might think photos are better than they actually are. can always correct things in post but its less work if you get it more or less right at the outset.
mokaigutti said:
The bad news is the presence of graininess on full zoom. This is normal? (spoilt solid by previous phones, Sony satio, Nokia n8, and the best one n82)
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What frame of reference are you using to say it is grainy ? What are you comparing it with.
You started this topic on that basis and have yet to substantiate it. So post photos of the same subject from other models.
I'm stuck at work and haven't been home in a while, the moment I am ill post some similar pics to compare with. I say grainy as in the images seem to be oversharpened. I'll upload some pics in a few minutes so it's a little easy to understand
I have been very disappointed with the Z Ultra camera, when I'm about to take a photo it looks gorgeous on the phone screen but then it looks crappy after the shot is taken.
There is a big loss of detail, it's almost if some sort of oil paint effect was applied to the photos on.
Today I noticed that the videos have much better image quality than the photos, I can pause a video and see how beautiful the image looks compared to regular shots.
I used to own a T2 Ultra and it had an excellent depth of field which allow me to shoot beautiful macros, the Z ultra has a bright lens on the specs but I can't get the same quality on the macros.
Overall it seems that the camera driver is messing around with the sharpness on the still pictures and screwing up something, is the camera driver source code available from the AOSP project?
I tried many, many other apps but it doesn't help much other than adding post processing tricks on top of the pictures, the problem seems to lie on the camera driver.
Thanks
use a 3rd party camera app that allows you to set the ISO abd set that at 50 or 100 at max. The image will be better, but not perfect. The underlying processor is poor in the ZU
blueether said:
use a 3rd party camera app that allows you to set the ISO abd set that at 50 or 100 at max. The image will be better, but not perfect. The underlying processor is poor in the ZU
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I felt that there could be some hope for the camera if the driver could be improved, the specs of the image sensor seem to be not bad compared to it's "brother" sensors: here.
I still believe that the driver is applying some heavy sharpening on the image and not doing a good job as far as of contrast/dynamic range as well as encoding raw image to JPEG inefficiently thus delivering washed out pictures.
IMX134 8 M Exmor RS sensor.
1.12μm pixel size.
IU134F9-Z lens.
f/2.4 aperture.
28mm aperture.
As you probably already know, there is more than one way to take close-up pictures with your P30 Pro. You can use the dedicated Super Macro mode (found under More in your stock camera app) or manually set the focus to macro in Pro mode. However, two years of experience have taught me that by far the best way to take really crisp macro shots with my phone is not an obvious one. In fact, I bet you have never even tried it.
You see, our phone comes with 2 primary lenses, each with its own sensor. The main lens boasts a 40MP sensor, making it the default choice for your everyday shots, while the wide secondary lens has a 20MP sensor, which makes it sound a little underwhelming. However, when it comes to macro photography, the wide lens has one major advantage over its big brother - a much shorter minimum focus distance. This allows you to bring the lens much closer to your subject before the image becomes blurry. So to take superior close-up shots with your P30 Pro, all you have to do is switch to the wide lens by selecting the Wide picture mode in the camera app. You can combine this with the dedicated HDR mode (found under More in your stock camera app) to eliminate any unwanted shadows. However, be aware that at such close proximity to the subject the autofocus can no longer be relied on. So manual focusing is strongly recommended.
Below are some sample pictures taken by each lens at their minimum focus distance.
40MP Primary Lens at minimum focus distance:
https://ibb.co/61kjmDQ
40MP Primary Lens, Closer Look:
https://ibb.co/ftpmCnx
20MP Secondary (Wide) Lens at minimum focus distance:
https://ibb.co/f4J7rCD
20MP Secondary (Wide) Lens, Closer Look:
https://ibb.co/dktkjqH
As you can see, the wide lens was able to capture far superior detail at minimum focusing distance compared to the 40MP shot. In real life application this means less cropping and more pictures like these:
https://ibb.co/cTn6W2J
https://ibb.co/1TtJHyz
https://ibb.co/Qb8PfNh
Have fun with your Macro shots!
That's really informative, and the difference in detail in your pics is quite stark. I'll try your suggestions for myself.
Thanks
That last pic is stunning!
I would add something to this post : shoot in RAW. You'll need to post-process the pictures, but the results are way much better regarding color, sharpness and lighting than what the auto mode can provide !
Quick comparison :
Auto mode :
https://ibb.co/QfzW5F3
RAW file manually edited :
https://ibb.co/bmWmmLq
I can assure you this flower wasn't anywhere near pink !
All the colours are different between those two pics, not just the flower. What does post-processing involve?
It's actually up to you. The RAW file only offers you a lot more freedom, with greater dynamic range and sharpness than a jpg file. You can crop and still get a perfectly sharp picture, you can play with lighting, shadows, colors ... to get exactly what you want.
In my case, a better quality and a more realistic / natural look. Most of the time, I get oversaturated pictures, with an exaggerated HDR effect and lack of detail using the auto mode (and I'm not only talking about macrophotography).
Regarding this specific RAW picture, I cropped and increased saturation and texture using Photoshop. The whole process took no more than ten minutes.
To give you an idea, here is what it looks like unedited : https://ibb.co/3mVKFbX
poulos971 said:
It's actually up to you. The RAW file only offers you a lot more freedom, with greater dynamic range and sharpness than a jpg file. You can crop and still get a perfectly sharp picture, you can play with lighting, shadows, colors ... to get exactly what you want.
In my case, a better quality and a more realistic / natural look. Most of the time, I get oversaturated pictures, with an exaggerated HDR effect and lack of detail using the auto mode (and I'm not only talking about macrophotography).
Regarding this specific RAW picture, I cropped and increased saturation and texture using Photoshop. The whole process took no more than ten minutes.
To give you an idea, here is what it looks like unedited : https://ibb.co/3mVKFbX
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I do enjoy playing with RAW. However, as I only ever post my pictures on social media where their quality gets butchered by the site's own compression engine, I find it difficult to justify the time investment in RAW editing. So I stick to JPEG format in Pro mode with master AI disabled.
i can't see "wide picture "in camera app for 20mp lens??cancel that
tonybhoy said:
i can't see "wide picture "in camera app for 20mp lens??cancel that
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You need to be in Pro mode with resolution set to 10MP. Don't ask me why. Ask our friends at Huawei =)
https://ibb.co/7jcRFFc
So I took Paulos971's suggestion and combined the wide lens macro with RAW. I have to say - I am not disappointed. Below are the edited versions of the same image taken simultaneously in RAW and JPEG.
Image saved as JPEG:
https://ibb.co/nmQcXLk
Image saved as RAW (.DNG):
https://ibb.co/cTn6W2J
koi8ru said:
You need to be in Pro mode with resolution set to 10MP. Don't ask me why. Ask our friends at Huawei =)
https://ibb.co/7jcRFFc
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i just went to photo mode and slid slider down to wide,never went to pro
koi8ru said:
So I took Paulos971's suggestion and combined the wide lens macro with RAW. I have to say - I am not disappointed. Below are the edited versions of the same image taken simultaneously in RAW and JPEG.
Image saved as JPEG:
https://ibb.co/nmQcXLk
Image saved as RAW (.DNG):
https://ibb.co/cTn6W2J
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Wow, amazing picture ! :good:
Yeah editing takes some time indeed, but I really think it's worth it
guys, go see my page, i have a lot of photos taken by my P30 Pro. You will see a lot of macro photography
My name on instagram is Titibenze
poulos971 said:
I would add something to this post : shoot in RAW. You'll need to post-process the pictures, but the results are way much better regarding color, sharpness and lighting than what the auto mode can provide !
Quick comparison :
Auto mode :
https://ibb.co/QfzW5F3
RAW file manually edited :
https://ibb.co/bmWmmLq
I can assure you this flower wasn't anywhere near pink !
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I tried many times to use RAW, but it works only at full res of 40mp an noise is incredibly hight, even with good light. Ho do yout set for those 2 example shot??
Leoxur said:
I tried many times to use RAW, but it works only at full res of 40mp an noise is incredibly hight, even with good light. Ho do yout set for those 2 example shot??
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Yes, the RAW file will always be a full resolution picture (i. e. 40mp using the main camera, 20mp on the ultrawide and 8mp on the telephoto).
To avoid noise, you must shoot at the lowest possible ISO setting ! It also depends on the sensor used (as the main one is bigger, it produces less noisy pictures than the ultrawide / telephoto).
This example picture was shot in 1/500s at 50 ISO using the ultrawide camera.
This is probably going to be am unpopular opinion but does anyone else think that the Pixel 6 camera sucks? Pics straight out of device are a) over sharpened and b) flat. The canned filters are poor too. Enhance does nearly nothing, dynamic is a circuis like sharpening and contrast+saturation, and the rest are such ugly color casts which makes them useless. None of the filters have a "strength" slider to control the magnitude of the effect. Yet the sky filters that have the exact same names and function all have strength sliders. WTF Google?
I was hoping that Google has taken SnapSeed and incorporated it into the default camera in some dumbed down format so as not to confuse the general user. Wishful thinking. Not only that, I can't seem to find a way to tweak the default settings to my liking.
On an ongoing trip the images from my wife's 18 month old Fruit 12 max wiped the floor with the Pixel 6. This is from man Apple hater who will never own a fruit themed device.
To summarize my experience with the Pixel 6 so far; ****ty fingerprint reader, ****ty camera. Alas I dislike Samsung products almost as much as the fruity ones. If OnePlus had not decided to take heavy handed approach to Oxygen OS 12 I would be rocking a OnePlus 9 instead and be content.
I've noticed the over sharpened on some pics and just a general overall look I didn't like right away with the pixel 6. This last week I have done a bunch of night sight pics in the same location I did last year with my pixel 2 and the pixel 6 absolutely looks better in every way. I'm sure the improved night sight is the updated hardware but google needs to work on their eye candy AI for the new sensors in other situations.
Try shooting raw and with night mode (even for daylight) then download adobe lightroom mobile (free version is enough), open the raw file in it, click the auto button and export the picture. Then compare to stock jpeg. You will be amazed. The hardware and image stacking on this phone are top notch. This is the first phone i have seen that has actually usable raw files. The stock jpeg on the other side is something i also don't like due to overprocessing.
GroovyGeek said:
This is probably going to be am unpopular opinion but does anyone else think that the Pixel 6 camera sucks? Pics straight out of device are a) over sharpened and b) flat. The canned filters are poor too. Enhance does nearly nothing, dynamic is a circuis like sharpening and contrast+saturation, and the rest are such ugly color casts which makes them useless. None of the filters have a "strength" slider to control the magnitude of the effect. Yet the sky filters that have the exact same names and function all have strength sliders. WTF Google?
I was hoping that Google has taken SnapSeed and incorporated it into the default camera in some dumbed down format so as not to confuse the general user. Wishful thinking. Not only that, I can't seem to find a way to tweak the default settings to my liking.
On an ongoing trip the images from my wife's 18 month old Fruit 12 max wiped the floor with the Pixel 6. This is from man Apple hater who will never own a fruit themed device.
To summarize my experience with the Pixel 6 so far; ****ty fingerprint reader, ****ty camera. Alas I dislike Samsung products almost as much as the fruity ones. If OnePlus had not decided to take heavy handed approach to Oxygen OS 12 I would be rocking a OnePlus 9 instead and be content.
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Sent the Pixel 6 back and get a refund.
It is the simplest solution.
Not really, since real alternatives are scarce..
I really enjoy the camera. It's been taking phenomenal pictures for me. They will update the camera more as well and with Google's history I see it being very good.
I just got this phone yesterday, made Few photos and I am coming from a Galaxy note 20 ultra... I have to say I am impressed with the camera but for sure it does not live up to the hype on the internet. My Galaxy note 20 ultra makes as good if not better photos and to top all that I was comparing my photos last night with a friend's Huawei 40 pro ... And his photos were as good and in some cases better (some mine were better but less so) 5han the Google pixel 6... Just say both those phones are over a year old.
neptun2 said:
Try shooting raw and with night mode (even for daylight) then download adobe lightroom mobile (free version is enough), open the raw file in it, click the auto button and export the picture. Then compare to stock jpeg. You will be amazed. The hardware and image stacking on this phone are top notch. This is the first phone i have seen that has actually usable raw files. The stock jpeg on the other side is something i also don't like due to overprocessing.
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Did you ever try Photoshop Express fpr RAW processing?
Yes i tried but the engine is the same between lightroom and photoshop express hence results are same. PS has better retouch capabilities if you need these.
neptun2 said:
Yes i tried but the engine is the same between lightroom and photoshop express
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Tbats what I was hoping
neptun2 said:
Try shooting raw and with night mode (even for daylight) then download adobe lightroom mobile (free version is enough), open the raw file in it, click the auto button and export the picture. Then compare to stock jpeg. You will be amazed. The hardware and image stacking on this phone are top notch. This is the first phone i have seen that has actually usable raw files. The stock jpeg on the other side is something i also don't like due to overprocessing.
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Thanks for saying this. So I didn't have to.
I find the camera pretty crappy if I'm honest. Detail in all of my pictures, including in well lit areas, are mediocre at best.
Night mode is absolutely useless too. If I compare it to my old Huawei Mate 20 Pro night mode pictures, there is no comparison.
Thinking of getting rid of the Pixel and getting something with an actual decent camera.
Pixel shots have a very specific look. It's not always realistic but it's beautiful. Live HDR and zero shutter lag are so nice.
If you're coming from a OnePlus phone, it can be a literal night and day difference in quality.
Is it possible that it is the selfie images that is breaking the camera?
What hype was there with this camera? Sure it has a new sensor that was talked about quite a bit, but everyone was saying that they picture quality was NOT different than the older Pixel models.
It is different but you need to try raw shooting to see the differences. Google's jpeg processing is far too aggressive regarding noise reduction so the small details are lost and stock jpegs look similar to older pixels. I will take some pictures these days to show the difference between stock jpeg and one converted from raw.
Here are links to stock jpeg from phone and one generated from raw file via adobe lightroom:
JPEG from raw:
jpeg from raw.jpg
drive.google.com
Stock jpeg:
stock jpeg.jpg
drive.google.com
For me the raw file generated by the pixel 6 (especially with night mode) is very good. It has a lot of detail and low amount of noise. In this case i have not applied any post processing except the auto button in adobe lightroom mobile hence no noise reduction and sharpening at all. If you prefer sharper and cleaner picture this raw file can handle both without any problem. Comparing the two pictures main problems with google's stock jpeg looks to be following:
1. Too much sharpening
2. Too aggressive HDR bringing up some nasty noise from the shadows
3. Too aggressive noise reduction. IT is not only very aggressive removing some fine details but it is also applied in different levels in different zones causing patches which are more smeared than the rest of the picture. For me this looks very ugly.
As i doubt that google will give us and settings to adjust jpeg processing my advice to everybody looking to get the most from the camera is to shoot raw with night mode on even in daylight and process the raw file the way they like it. It is always good to also have the raw file as backup because software constantly improves and in future you may get even better results from the old raw files.
I don't like the main camera for close subjects, the depth of field drop off is too shallow for my liking and the focus area is small causing soft edges due to the large sensor.
People who take pictures of food a lot might have a love hate relationship.
It is also annoying to scan qr codes due to the soft edges.
And what about that main camera for video calling on duo or whatsapp? Is it crappy only for me or are you guys experiencing the same?
neptun2 said:
Try shooting raw and with night mode (even for daylight) then download adobe lightroom mobile (free version is enough), open the raw file in it, click the auto button and export the picture. Then compare to stock jpeg. You will be amazed. The hardware and image stacking on this phone are top notch. This is the first phone i have seen that has actually usable raw files. The stock jpeg on the other side is something i also don't like due to overprocessing.
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Wow, you have just made my day