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Google has the power to not only remove applications from users' Android phones, but remotely install them as well.
Last week, Google told the world it had exercised its Android "Remote Application Removal Feature," reaching out over the airwaves and lifting two applications from citizen handsets, and as pointed out by the man who built this pair of vanished applications – security researcher Jon Oberheide – the company can use the same persistent handset connection to install applications as well.
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/28/google_remote_android_application_install/
Lol sooo is this true?
Yes, it's to stop viruses and it's great.
its also the biggest security risk ever announced for a cell phone....... theyve basically told the world that they left a backdoor open to hack any android phone
just remember if google can access your phone and install apps......... there are countless others in the world who have the ability to do the exact same thing to your phone
lol this is not that big of a deal
a lot of phones can do this. its a security feature to prevent viruses and other harmful programs from residing / being installed on your phone. they will only use it for good.
if your thinking this is a way to get root on your phone, it could be, but very very difficult to do as it is heavily locked down with little way to get in.
It's not a good way to get root. And google won't use it for any reason other than to protect its users or it would be facing quite a bit of legal action and people would stop buying their product... you want to appeal to people.
The Apple fanboys are already screaming "See! now we're on even level now!"
Farrr from it apple, far from it.
I saw some post on another site
C---, 6th July 2010.
"@Ma----- 33,000 games on the iPhone's App Store... none of which are going to torch your battery or send your banking information to a private server in Europe."
Posts like this are just so dumb -.- iphone users actually believe that this is true...
Hello has anyone used the money toolkit app to access your account?. On my iphone I have an official natwest app, which am sure is safe however a bit worried about this one cause it clearly states not affiliated with any bank.
Hi marvi0
I am Dan - founder of Money Toolkit, so obviously my opinion is not impartial
You are absolutely right to question apps like ours, and I wish more people were more diligent in this resect.
The biggest barrier to using any third party financial app is trust. For a small start up like ours, theres a bit of a catch 22 thing. The best way for people to trust our app is to see others using it, which means having enough early trail blazers use it.
I hope you do read some of the pages on our site regarding security - we have gone to very great lengths to keep you in charge of your credentials.
But this is still only our word. Probably the best thing to help increase your confidence is to look on our get satisfaction pages - (we cant delete messages, so it is an open conversation). Also check the comments on the Android market, again we can't even respond as the developer (which can be frustrating).
I hope others do respond on here, though we only have 500+ active users, so I would be a bit surprised.
There will always be some nervousness committing to our app, ultimately you have to go with your instincts - most people who see our app don't go on to enter their details, which is a shame in my opinion (obviously), because those who do find our app really useful.
Any questions, just ask.
Cheers.
Dan.
I have installed it and it looks pretty good
I have my fingers crossed regarding the security
Thanks for your reply so does this app actually allow me to view my natwest account information?
marvi0 said:
Thanks for your reply so does this app actually allow me to view my natwest account information?
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it does yeah
you get an overview and then when you click on the account it drills down into the transactions
you cant see direct debits etc
also i wish you could change the theme, the wooden effect is a bit yukky, lol
but it does the job fine
also you have to manually log out or the app will run in the background, and if someone picks up your phone they can see the bank funds etc
winwiz - thanks for that.
You are not alone a few people don't like the wooden theme, so we are thinking of changing that.
The idea was that it continues the web site theme of being a work bench - continuing to follow the tool kit idea! We also didn't want to look like another boring bank, but probably it doesn't work that well on the phones.
Regarding logging out - we keep you logged in on purpose, (it will time out after 5 minutes) it is really annoying when you accidentally go back too far or want to swap to another app and have to log back in. Perhaps we should make that another setting?
some people even choose to keep their password remembered, and rely on the phones own security.
Remember this is a READ ONLY app, there is absolutely no way anyone could transfer funds, or make any changes to your bank.
We've got some nice things planned, like categorising your sending and graphs etc.
So any feedback or ideas really welcome - especially on the get satisfaction pages
Cheers.
MTK-Dan said:
winwiz - thanks for that.
You are not alone a few people don't like the wooden theme, so we are thinking of changing that.
The idea was that it continues the web site theme of being a work bench - continuing to follow the tool kit idea! We also didn't want to look like another boring bank, but probably it doesn't work that well on the phones.
Regarding logging out - we keep you logged in on purpose, (it will time out after 5 minutes) it is really annoying when you accidentally go back too far or want to swap to another app and have to log back in. Perhaps we should make that another setting?
some people even choose to keep their password remembered, and rely on the phones own security.
Remember this is a READ ONLY app, there is absolutely no way anyone could transfer funds, or make any changes to your bank.
We've got some nice things planned, like categorising your sending and graphs etc.
So any feedback or ideas really welcome - especially on the get satisfaction pages
Cheers.
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Hi Dan,
Thanks for the great feedback. I'd like the option to customise the background, or if this is not possible, a solid black background. The timeout option should be configurable so the user can set the timeout period!
I look forward to the updates
MTK-Dan said:
I am Dan - founder of Money Toolkit, so obviously my opinion is not impartial
...
Any questions, just ask.
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Click to collapse
Hi Dan,
Was just deliberating about using Money Toolkit and I had a couple questions. I've no knowledge in this area so please bare with me.
On the blog post here: hxxp://moneytoolkit.com/2010/09/secure-mobile-banking/
You said that:
"Yodlee then sells your bank data to the web site that you signed up".
Which I agree doesn't sound ideal - but they have to make money to be a sustainable business. How does money toolkit intend to make money? Which part of users financial details will be utilised to do this?
Secondly - regarding the security - the same blog post says:
"Not only would someone have to get access to your phone they would have to go to the same lengths as they would if they wanted to ‘hack’ into a bank, but they would have to do it three times!"
I presume that each location storing data can't login to the bank account in part. Instead a single server instance would have to login - requiring all 3 parts of the information to do so as banks usually randomise the questions asked. That presumption may be wrong however - but if it's correct does that mean a hacker could just hack that single server instance and intercept the traffic being sent to the bank?
You said that:
"Yodlee then sells your bank data to the web site that you signed up".
"but they have to make money to be a sustainable business. How does money toolkit intend to make money? Which part of users financial details will be utilised to do this?""
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We point out the normal relationship with Yodlee because Yodlee is an independant third party, they are the entity that you end up having the biggest contractual relationship with, in fact you sign over power of attourney to them when you use a web site that uses their aggregation (read the small print).
Regarding Money Toolkit making money, so far we don't! Of course, as you point out, we need to, so we have two options - we will ask for 50p per month (for example), or we will offer good deals with companies we trust (generally not main stream banking companies), where we will make a commission, if we do that we will make the commission obvious and share it with the person taking the offer.
"Secondly - regarding the security...
...does that mean a hacker could just hack that single server instance and intercept the traffic being sent to the bank?"
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Well your main assumptions is correct, but the reasoning not quite right. Firstly it is not just because of the random nature of the security questions that the three way split is valuable, but literally each part is utterly useless without the other parts, they are three parts of an encrypted file, which MUST come together before it is possible to decrypt.
The decrypted file (now only in volatile memory) then returns values to your phone and it is your phone which sends (over SSL) the right request to the bank, so they would have to breach our own SSL traffic (and custom encryption). Our IP's and the bank's are hard coded so a traditional man in the midle attack is ruled out. They would in effect, have to dupe you into downloading a dodgy Money Toolkit apk for this to be possible.
As you may know, the huge majority of security problems come from static data being discoverable (cd's and memory sticks left on trains for example). In our case the three seperate locations, including your phone make this kind of static data recovery, all but impossible.
However... you are right tht if someone managed to compromise the individual server that, at that moment (we have many), did that specific decryption: then if they were very smart, they might have the ability to detect your secure bank details. Though it would be almost imposible for that to happen and us not know about it. To alter our code and not have our systems detect the intrusion would be phenomenal.
MTK-Dan said:
so we have two options - we will ask for 50p per month (for example), or we will offer good deals with companies we trust (generally not main stream banking companies), where we will make a commission, if we do that we will make the commission obvious and share it with the person taking the offer.
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Great, both options sound reasonable
MTK-Dan said:
they are three parts of an encrypted file, which MUST come together before it is possible to decrypt.
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Neat, didn't realise.
MTK-Dan said:
The decrypted file (now only in volatile memory) then returns values to your phone and it is your phone which sends (over SSL) the right request to the bank, so they would have to breach our own SSL traffic (and custom encryption).
They would in effect, have to dupe you into downloading a dodgy Money Toolkit apk for this to be possible.
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That at least does sound secure (without understanding it more) I suppose there may also be security issues beyond a dodgy .apk file if the Android device has been rooted - because I think that allows apps to work outside of their sandbox. Again, I don't know enough about that.
Thanks for the detailed answers, it gives me more confidence in the service.
aph5 said:
Great, both options sound reasonable
Neat, didn't realise.
That at least does sound secure (without understanding it more) I suppose there may also be security issues beyond a dodgy .apk file if the Android device has been rooted - because I think that allows apps to work outside of their sandbox. Again, I don't know enough about that.
Thanks for the detailed answers, it gives me more confidence in the service.
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Is it possible to transfer money to whomever you want with this app?
If, like me, you find you are dissatisfied with the ridiculously low amount of storage space available on this phone, it may be worth emailing Sony. I have sent the following email to them, as I feel, havjng read their website, the representations they make regarding the internal storage, and the now numerous websites which clearly detail that the phone has 1.26gb available, I am sure that, certainly within the UK, this breaches ASA guidelines. I am going to wait to see what they say, however if no satisfactory response is received, I intend to pass it to Trading Standards.
The phone itself is brilliant, but, without root, or a method to use the SD card as a merged partition, the phone is utterly useless if you actually want to install any apps.
If you've bought the handset, and are disappointed with storage, please email Sony. Perhaps, if they receive enough complaints, they may offer a solution to removing some of the bloatware.
Copy of mail to Sony.
Dear Sir or Madam,
I recently purchased this handset as an upgrade to my Xperia SP. I am extremely disappointed with the internal storage. The phone claims to be an 8gb model. This, according to your website gives the user around 3gb, however this is untrue. With non removable Google and Amazon apps, I am left with 1.2gb free. You also state that you can choose to install apps directly to the SD card. Again, this is a misrepresentation, as the app must first be installed to the internal storage. Having installed the essential apps for daily use, I am left with 600mb of storage space. This is simply not acceptable. I am unable to install a simple game, and then move it to the SD card due to the severe limits on space.
I understand that 8gb isn't the amount of space available on an 8gb handset, however, 1.2gb, I feel, breaches advertising standards in the UK, and falsely misrepresents the capabilities of the phone.
Since I am unable to root the device, or partition the SD card without voiding the warranty, I am hoping you will be able to provide a satisfactory solution, either by replacing the handset or by software patch which permits merging a partition on the SD card.
If I am unable to reach a satisfactory solution, I will, regretfully, have to pass the matter to Trading Standards, as I am confident that 1.2gb of usable space on an "8gb" handset is a clear breach of their guidelines.
There are numerous webpage sites now reporting this issue, which is seriously going to impact the decisions of prospective buyers of this model. I wish I had been aware of these limitations prior to upgrading. As it stands, I trusted your website and the claim that 3gb would be available.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Nice! Well, I guess it worth a mail (after I found the corresponding institutions here in Hungary ). Btw. I'll also add that in theory, this phone would be The mid-range flagship of Sony, which is a big fail in this case. Big as the small storage.
MetalOllie said:
If, ....... I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
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Well, actually I have run quite a few campaigns against Sony in the past years and you would be surprised to know they have pretty bad feedback and pretty bad support for midrange devices. Even at times leaving out bugs and glitches which affect a lot of users, but then again they do not care actually. We had over 100,000 followers over google+ and change.org but at both instances , Sony did what it always does. Ditch a midrange hanging on a thin hair.
However, there is some good news for you. Sony usually upgrades a midranger for a year after which they completely leave it as it is. So you still got some upgrades left. I will be actually surprised if they give you Android M but that could happen but is not a guarantee. Android M would come around later in November of this year. Give or take 4-5 months, Sony would be announcing upgrades for its flagships devices. At that moment, just before it upgrades flasgships, it will give you a small bug fixing upgrade so Sony can officially say that it has given you a year of upgrades.
If you are very lucky enough, you might get it or maybe Sony leaves you at the last straw by providing a very buggy AOSP broken device tree and it would tell the world that it is very user friendly towards development. Xperia M4 users be left hanging on 5.1.1 officially but I am hoping against hope in the case of M4 that it might actually see a last update to Android M.
Amazon amongst many other bloatware you find on your device, they all pays royalties to Sony for preinstalling these apps. This means Sony is actually making a lot of money by just preinstalling these apps so why would it like to breach its agreement with bloatware companies or stop itself from earning?
Only thing I see happening is that they would merge the device storage into one or maybe decrease the size of their FTF by cutting out few apps or even allow users to move their apps to their sd cards. Worse case scenario, they might even discontinue the 8gb version and stick with the 16Gb and keep on receiving royalties.
However, you have an extra advantage in your favour, I must add. Many(read all technology based) websites have flooded the internet with how little M4 storage is. This might give Sony a reason to think otherwise!
Fingers Crossed!
As anticipated, Sony have responded in a cavalier manner. Below is the their email to me, followed by my response to it.
Dear Darren,
Thank you for contacting the Sony Xperia support centre regarding your Sony Xperia M4 Aqua handset.
I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the memory of the phone.
The phone has 2GB of random access memory and up to 8GB of flash memory. However, internal processes on the phone will take up some of this memory. I would suggest that you try uninstalling any apps which you do not use, however please note that it will not be possible to uninstall some of the apps. In order to do this, you will need to go through the apps individually. To do this, please do the following:
1) In the main menu of the handset please select Settings.
2) Scroll down and select Apps.
3) Scroll the screen from right to left until "all" appears at the top of the screen.
4) You will need to go into each app individually to see if the option to delete them is available.
With Sony Xperia, you have a repair warranty with your handset. However, as your handset is not defective, we would not be able to offer this. If you are looking for any other resolution then you will need to speak to your retailer as this would be offered by them at their discretion.
I hope this helps you.
For the latest news, information and product support please visit www.sonymobile.com.
If you require any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact us again. Please use the below link for all our contact information.
http://www.sonymobile.com/gb/support/contact-us/
Please be aware that should you not respond within 5 days of this email your query will be automatically closed. Any further communications will not reach our support and a new query will need to be raised.
My reply....
to [email protected]
Dear Louise,
Thank you for your response. I now intend to take the matter up with Trading Standards, the Advertising Standards Agency and BBC Watchdog.
Your suggestion that I "uninstall apps" would be fine, were they not preinstalled and unremovable. Further, you have not addressed the claim on your website which CLEARLY states 3gb of available storage space, when in actuality, there is less than HALF of this available. This is a clear misrepresentation of the capacity, and breaches ASA regulations.
Neither have you addressed the claim that apps can be installed to the SD card, again, a false representation of the capability of the device.
My issue is less with the phone, and more with the false advertising and misrepresentation by Sony.
I have purchased Sony products for over 30 years, and have always been extremely satisfied, however the false advertising of the capacity of this product leaves me wondering whether I should I ever purchase another Sony device.
You should be aware that there are many forums reporting the storage issue with this handset, and many users on social media complaining of the same issue. This does not reflect at all well on Sony, and neither, I am afraid does your response, which I will be posting to XDA forums, whom you are doubtless aware of.
A simple resolution would be a software patch to allow the removal of the copious amount of unnecessary apps, by companies such as Amazon.
Best regards,
Darren S******
It appears that Internal Storage isn't the only area Sony are misrepresenting. According to their website, the sound specifications are:
Sony 3D Surround Sound technology (VPT)
Clear Audio+ – Sound improvement software
Clear Bass™
Manual equaliser
xLoud™ Experience
However, I can't see xLoud anywhere on the handset. Does anyone else's have it?
The Hungarian email support is the best. After I wrote the text and clicked on the send button, nothing happens. Tried 4 different browser (Chrome, Firefox, IE, Spartan), nothing. Very clever!
update: ohh, finally I realised that the problem was the lenght of my mail, it was too long - but nothing warned me about this, I had to guess...
Any further response from them?
Wow. I was going to buy this phone and now I am disappointed. Overheating issues, front camera not working, memory size. I think they can fix most of the problems with one big update, but i dont know is it worth the risk buying it.
Sent from my Y320-U10 using Tapatalk
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
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Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
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Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
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You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
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No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.
Hello friends
I made this article because I wanted to share my experience in buying a Xiaomi phone. In my case I bought 2 devices over the past two months. The first is a Xiaomi Mi5, which I ordered for my sister and the second one is the Mi5s, which I ordered for myself.
First, I’d like to talk about my choice of an online retailer. There are a couple of things to consider here.
1. Most importantly you want to be confident that the device will come with the original MIUI software. There are many online retailers that would sell you a device with a Global version of the software, only for you to find that it is actually some kind of a fake custom ROM. You want to avoid that, as flashing the original version of the software, although relatively easy, might be a lengthy and frustrating process for many. After all you'd like to begin using your device from day one, not spend time figuring how to fix it.
2. Secondly, the price. Naturally you'd like to find the best deal possible. You should be aware of the fact that there are many retailers that do fake promotions. They would for instance write down a higher price on the product and allegedly discount it to its original price. You don’t want to fall for such cheap tricks. The best thing you could do is either observe the price of the product every now and then, or compare over a couple of retailers.
3. Delivery. Ordering a device from China sometimes means waiting for more than a month for it to arrive. This depends to a big extend on the shipping agents that the retailer uses.
After doing about a month of research I decided to make my purchase from Fastcardtech.com Why? The driving factors were as follows: I was told that they ship devices only with the original software. The second is that they offered the best price at the time of the purchase. Thirdly, I considered the services they offered. As you can read on their website they have extensively explained their policy when it comes down to the payment, shipment and after sales services (warranty). They also offer secure payment through PayPal, transport insurance and customs insurance. Transport insurance means that they would ship another phone in case the first is lost during transportation. Customs insurance costs 7% of the total order price, but means that you would get compensated if your device ends up in the customs office.
Regarding, the shipping time, I can confirm that the Mi5 arrived for 2 weeks and the Mi5s for 3 weeks. The shipping agents in both cases ware SF post and Netherlands post. Upon booting them up for the first time I was pleased to find out both devices were running the original Global stable and Chinese stable software respectively.
When it comes down to the price at the time of the purchase the Mi5 costed just under $240 and the Mi5s $297. I bought both of them in December. I paid a small fee of around $7 for processing the transaction since I used PayPal. I’d recommend that you use Paypal too, as it is a secure method of purchasing. I also paid $3 for a transport insurance. Both are included in the above stated prices. The insurance is a valuable service offered by Fastcardtech.
Regarding the packaging, unfortunately I have thrown it away but the phones came carefully packaged in a thick layer of bubble wrap. You have the option of choosing different sorts of packaging on the checkout page One aspect about Fastcardtech I'd like to criticize is that they marked both items as commercial. The value they stated was 20usd. You should explicitly tell then to mark them as gifts, otherwise you might have to visit the customs
Now I would like to tell you what it is to use a Xiaomi device. First of all, upon booting it up for the first time I was charmed by the esthetics of the software. In my view it looks better than stock android. Furthermore, I highly value the added functionality. Out of the box the phones have applications like a compass, a file explorer, and a QR scanner. A great addition is the inclusion of WPS office. In fact, I like it so much that I wrote this article on my phone. Really a great office suite optimized to work fantastically on a phone. The security app is also a great convenience tool since it is the one place to go to optimize the work of your phone. It can analyze battery usage, clear unnecessary files from the system and in general makes sure that the phone runs smoothly. You might be wondering what it is to use the phone with a Chinese software and what the differences are with the Mi5, which runs on the Global version. Fortunately, I can make a direct comparison.
All in all, there aren't any big differences between both versions, at least when it comes down to general layout. My Mi5s came with the Google apps preinstalled, however if you do not wish for anyone to open the phone there is a great application by Xiaomi that you can download to install the essential Google services framework and the play store. You can find it on the following link: http://en.miui.com/thread-405166-1-1.html What might concern some of you is the presence of Chinese apps. Some of them are quite useful do be honest. An instance is the fantastic Reader application, which is way better than any other I have seen. The only problem is that it isn't translated in English. Some of the Chinese apps push notifications but it's very easy to mute them. I have just put them in folders and have forgotten about them. As you can expect the Google apps work well. There is this small bug that there isn’t an icon for the Google app. Consequently, I have to use the widget instead. The Mi5, which runs the global version on the other hand has no bloatware has and all the essential Google apps preinstalled. The main difference between both devices however lies in optimization. The global version is optimized to work with the Google apps and other applications like Facebook and messenger. This doesn't mean it launches them faster or runs them smoother. It is just far better at "managing them". By this I mean keeping them in the background more effectively and pushing notifications more consistently. If you want that on the Chinease version, you have to tweak the Autostart options and the hide options in the settings menu so that your favorites apps are managed better. Still, this might come at the expense of battery life. Otherwise as you would expect all native apps are perfectly optimized - notes, calendar etc. Just link them to your Google account and have no worries about missing your reminder.
When it comes down to general system performance both phones are blazing fast and keep apps in memory very well. No issues here at all. Once again I would like to mention the utilities that the security apps provided. I can be set to clear the cache of the phone regularly, remove trash after it reaches certain size, reboot the phone aromatically every now and then. As you might have guessed these are important functions that do not come out of the box in stock android but are essential for keeping the system running smoothly. Speaking of MIUI features, the 8,2 update has brought cool feature like automated tasks and smart assistant which will bring even more functionality and automation to then phone. I have the update available, however haven't taken advantage of it yet, because I wanted to finish my review as it is.
Having mentioned that there isn't much more to tell about these devices. There are 2 issues Mi5s users are regularly complaining about. Battery life and fingerprint. Perhaps the update will fix them. My observation on the topic is that battery life is generally very good. There is some kind of a bug however that's drains the battery but that happens rarely. Still it isn’t very plesant to see it, but a restart fixes everything. The fingerprint is a bit tricky too. Personally, I think it is one of the best available, but needs a lot of optimization. I have seen it rarely unlock the phone after a bear tap on the button, which was intended to just wake the screen. Still more often, you’d have to put your finger in the exact way you registered it so that it is recognized. Which is sometimes inconvenient
Such an informative post in this thread.
Really appreciate.
rhrokib said:
Such an informative post in this thread.
Really appreciate.
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Thank you! I am happy you found my post informative! If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer!
Ifo0 said:
Thank you! I am happy you found my post informative! If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer!
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Actually I don't find any question now. If I just found one then I'd do.
Thanks for asking.