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Hi all,
I read the thread about M$ that wants xda-developers to take the htc roms from ftp. One more time M$ disappoint their customers that just want to take the max from their htc pockets (We paid 500€ more or less for a pocket, I thing is legitimately that we want to take the max from our pocket).
So I think that htc roms must be available in torrents using public trackers and publish in mininova.org, meganova.org or other torrents sites available. If everyone seed some roms they will always be available for public.
What you think about this?
I am down... just don;t know how to package them up or else I would. I get a new pc this week and have though of making my other one a file store...
Hi,
We must build a private network for Forum users, We can use KDX a multi platform peer to peer client/server app, it is like Hotline.
Slimsaturn: BUY A MAC OR USE LINUX BOYCOTT MICROSOFT
Regards,
Taguapire.
boycott microsoft!
i was thinking of upgrading to Vista. now i changed my mind! u dont piss off your customers that supporting u!
Since i have a hermes and i live for xda, I'm backing up the ftp and i'll store it. Possibly setup ftp access for requested users.
I think we should tell M$ to ........................................KISS OUR A$$..............................OUR...................................."ENTIRE......A$$"...............That's what "I" think............................
That being said........ start backing up the ROMS etc...... we'll figure out how to get them out to users.......... if you can download the things from HTC.......why does M$ have their panties in a bunch?????????? Sheeesssshhhhhh what a bunch of CRY BABIES!!!!!!!!
vpu2....OUT!!!!
Why is it that Big corporations treat their customers like dirt!
Its the enthusiast that keeps them making money! I am constantly "selling" the merits of M$ powered PPC's to anyone who will listen, I am in the IT industry and have in the last 3 or so years been responsible for over 50 sales of M$ based devices to customers and friends. Because of XDA Dev I will buy a WM device again and again. But if M$ plays the Bully and forces the demise of XDA Dev I will have no reason to by a WM device again. I will then look into other devices such as Sony etc.
I'm sure you are all the same as me, its the the amazing endless customization options that XDA and WM devices offer you that keeps you coming back, without that its no better than any other device.
But sadly Big Corporations don't care, even if we could get a petition signed by 10 000 users they would just shrug and say "So what, there are millions of other users"
What I would like to know is what possible damage can be done by having M$ roms available to M$ customers. Its not like someone can make his own device and then download a rom here. If you use a rom from XDA Dev then you own a M$ device! and you have paid M$ for the rom, Why then are you not allowed to make it better!
No if/when we can get a working Linux solution we can once and for all "dump" M$.
Maybe HTC will bring out a device running Linux in the near future.
Yours in Hope
Jules
As annoying as it is this is the right thing for MS to do to protect themselves.
If it was a little company would you feel less angry?
The only reason you feel angry is due to them being a multi billion dollar corporation beating down on "the little guys" aka us.
How are they loosing revenue from XDA Dev?
If they were charging users for updated OS versions then I could see their point of view. But I can't see how XDA Dev can have any negative impact on M$. If I am missing something here then please inform me.
Jules
The way I see it, allowing people to down load different ROM's hurts no one. Al they are trying to do is fix up the defective software. If MS spent more time fixing the defects in their software and less time with lawyers people would not need look around for other ROM's. There is prima facie a very powerful case for a class action against MS for the defects in WM5.
We are talking about tracking down a solution to hacking WM6 to run on a Hermese for starters and I know they will charge for that.
ZaJules said:
How are they loosing revenue from XDA Dev?
If they were charging users for updated OS versions then I could see their point of view. But I can't see how XDA Dev can have any negative impact on M$. If I am missing something here then please inform me.
Jules
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Frustrating thing is its not about profit etc... i read that IP (Intellectual Property) law in US states that if you knowingly let ANYONE (not just in US) use your IP without correct license you stand to let anyone do that. Since you have willingly let someone get away with IP infringment you couldnt claim say if the vista source code was used without permission!??
A simple agreement between xda-devs and MS would get passed this but i guess the boffs in the MS law department arent willing to listen. We are possibly the best source of FREE testing and debugging they have!
And may i remind everyone we have ALL paid for a WM license, this is not (as some idiot has said in the "sign the petition" thread) software piracy, it is FREELY available from operators and HTC!
Well, for what I read M$ says that many customers are pissing of their mobile phone providers with roms that are unsupported by that provider.
And for that reason, they say........, roms must not be available here.....
It's fine we can put them elsewhere.
This saves the forum from being shut down or having any legal problems at all. This ensures a long lasting community without having to go underground.
suineg said:
We are talking about tracking down a solution to hacking WM6 to run on a Hermese for starters and I know they will charge for that.
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I will pay for an upgrade, but if they don't make it available I have no moral problem of using a hacked version for the Hermes. It's not that M$ will loose any revenue if the product isn't available to buy. Not having VM6 will not make me buy a new phone faster either. As most of us I guess we're stuck with a 2 year contract or so anyhow.
It seems like a really bad thing on MS' side but really its not that bigga deal.
With so many of us here it is easy to build another database at other places and even servers like rapidshare, megaupload etc. They might take them down but they will be back up very quickly. That being said once the network is made all we need to do is get the word around via PM's as to keep it off the boards to keep MS from being able to do anything. Simple
Upload the roms, have in your sig you have links, give out the links in PM's and we are all good to use xda as the great community it always has been
Cheers
vador said:
Hi all,
I read the thread about M$ that wants xda-developers to take the htc roms from ftp. One more time M$ disappoint their customers that just want to take the max from their htc pockets (We paid 500€ more or less for a pocket, I thing is legitimately that we want to take the max from our pocket)....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually; it's HTC we should be mad at... If they would release some decently functioning firmware for our devices in the first place, there would not be any need for a ROM archive so we can cook up our own ROM sets...
And i really supect HTC has also triggered this M$ action, because of the appearance of diverse test-ROM's for Trinity and Hermes among others...
Just like someone said before: why do these multi-billion-dollar-bohemoths of companies piss on their customers like this ??? It's truly shocking how they crank out half-working product and kick them on the market, and forget about them instantly (support for existing customers? what's that ...?).
They should better concentrate to work with us, and create a better user-experience for all their customers... But since we have a thing called "world-economy", don't count on it to happen....it never will...
Makes me sad....
ZaJules said:
Why is it that Big corporations treat their customers like dirt!
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Not that I like that the ROMs were removed, it was a very helpful service.
But this anti-MS ranting does not help. MS is not the salvation army, and they do (and have to do) what is legally possible to protect their business interests and that of their customers. The free download of one of their OS is not something to can seriously expect them to tolerate in the long run.
Folks:
Wiki's are editable by everybody... especially the place were "links to roms" are.
XDA will fight any m$ attempts to have us remove links to roms. That amounts to web censorship.
Well I had just made an excalibur torrent, but I like hermes better, I should have everything down tomorrow and a torrent ready then, sucks Im not gonna be able to use orb. if you havent I suggest you register at demonoid.com. there are other torrents there you may find interesting.
ORIGINALLY from this thread: ( i just want to help to have more signature )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294213
http://www.petitiononline.com/xdadevs/petition.html
To: Microsoft
This Petition aims to show the support for xda-developers.com's archive of 'ROM Images'
The Undersigned wish to notify Microsoft Corp. of their strong feelings against the recent demands to remove the 'ROM Images'. We feel that they bring more publicity and support to the 'Windows Mobile' platform and device: without this we feel they would not be as popular as they are to this date.
Please think rationally Microsoft!
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
This is an old and sensitive issue. This is not solely Microsoft's decision. Microsoft's Windows Mobile is bundled with Manufacturer's device under operators/distributors specification. This is a three-way agreement. Microsoft can not sell you the OS, because the device drivers is built by third party.
The reason for its removal from this site is the consequences of flashing an unofficial ROM. Some damn users don't know what they are doing... Flash their devices with custom ROMs, brick their devices unnecessarily, claims warranty to operator/distributor, and even sometimes demand support to an unofficial ROM.
Simply stated, if your were in their shoes, what would you do?
In the same manner, we, the users who understand the situation, are left with devices with very little or no support when new devices come out. We were sold with devices that cost like a PC, and NO OPTION to buy an upgrade from them.
And what are we supposed to do? buy again another device with the new software? That's plain bull.
So, your campaign is pointless! In the end, what really matters to them is the bottom line.
jiggs said:
This is an old and sensitive issue. This is not solely Microsoft's decision. Microsoft's Windows Mobile is bundled with Manufacturer's device under operators/distributors specification. This is a three-way agreement. Microsoft can not sell you the OS, because the device drivers is built by third party.
The reason for its removal from this site is the consequences of flashing an unofficial ROM. Some damn users don't know what they are doing... Flash their devices with custom ROMs, brick their devices unnecessarily, claims warranty to operator/distributor, and even sometimes demand support to an unofficial ROM.
Simply stated, if your were in their shoes, what would you do?
In the same manner, we, the users who understand the situation, are left with devices with very little or no support when new devices come out. We were sold with devices that cost like a PC, and NO OPTION to buy an upgrade from them.
And what are we supposed to do? buy again another device with the new software? That's plain bull.
So, your campaign is pointless! In the end, what really matters to them is the bottom line.
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bro this is not my campaign, im just supporting this.
Thanks for the explanation,.
Feh, Microsoft just doesn't want unsupported devices floating around. <_<
And seriously, the custom ROM excuse is... crap.
It's similar to the case of a laptop owner having his warranty voided because he ran Linux instead of Vista (he later got his warranty repair anyway).
I know it's a PDA but I expect the folks who make the stuff to be better than trying to lock people down into a walled garden. -.-"
Especially a brand such as O2 who sell the product then dont provide a decent OS or service to go with it! These are our devices we paid for them we extracted the OS's to build or rebuild a better quality rom, from what I have seen nobody has asked for money or otherwise! Lets face it MS arnt going to break their budget over a handful of ppl cooking and sharing a few upgraded roms.
This was an old thread.. Feb.
It now really does not or really concern as all the rom is for evaluation and testing. As long we agree to flash it to the so-call required version, and even it spoilt, we fix ourself
Mine's out of warranty. The only thing I wish right now is that O2 actually releases the service manual.
Dont forget someone needs to pay for the software
post removed because of my employer
homer285 said:
Especially a brand such as O2 who sell the product then dont provide a decent OS or service to go with it! These are our devices we paid for them we extracted the OS's to build or rebuild a better quality rom, from what I have seen nobody has asked for money or otherwise! Lets face it MS arnt going to break their budget over a handful of ppl cooking and sharing a few upgraded roms.
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Let's see, I have setup the download center for the XDA Atom WM6 AKU0.7 to see the statistics... as of this date, there are 3,349 downloads....
jiggs said:
Let's see, I have setup the download center for the XDA Atom WM6 AKU0.7 to see the statistics... as of this date, there are 3,349 downloads....
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briliant jiggs,.
Hi Guys,
Don't forget that windows mobile is a copy written bit of software. Someone needs to pay for it. Normally the vendor pays Microsoft for the license for your device. That's fine for the initial release. However notice that only products that are still being sold get an updated rom? Why's that.... Because the vendor still wants to sell that device. Once its out of production no rom upgrades... funny that. Its the trend for all consumer electronics. Its all about pushing sku's or stock unit items. Remember that all these company's are in the game to make money.
How can o2 make any money by making a rom upgrade available to a new OS when they need to pay Microsoft for the OS and they cant make any more money as the unit is out of production.
I think the whole thing is silly. I have an atom exec that is still faster than many of the "new" mobile 6 devices with older processors but no officially upgrade option. I am not going to dump my perfectly good atom exec to something else for no reason but I want mobile 6.
What needs to happen, so everyone is happy and gets their $$ is that o2 should offer an upgrade service. I'd be happy to pay for an upgrade rom that way both O2 get their slice and Microsoft get their $ for the software.
*We should be pushing o2 to offer an upgrade service with a price tag to produce the new roms. Its never going to happen for free.* Microsoft don't give software away for free if you haven't noticed. It should be much cheaper than buying a new PDA with pretty much the same(or lower) specs as they haven't really moved in hardware they just keep moving buttons around.....
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Boy. HP used to do this before wm2k3se to wm5. How I wish it existed, then I didn't get to waste 5 mos of my life just to make the upgrade myself. BUT, the bottom line is much better with the new devices...
How much percentage of users really do flash their devices with the 'test' ROMs?
Just that the guy who quoted the above would know... the official wm5 ROM for the Atom really sucks!!!
It makes me so very sad to see such fantastic projects that people put countless hours into get dumped onto sites like Rapidshare not just because they suck, are often temporary links that disappear, your customers have to go through ridiculous captchas and waits and download and speed limits, but also largely because these companies benefit commercially (ads and selling premium accounts) from your work probably more, I'd wager, than you benefit from donations from people who use your work and manage to give you a few bucks (wild guess).
I don't want to be sad anymore. Just so happens I've got space and bandwidth to spare. If you want me to mirror your Raphael rom, just ask (though I may ask you first) and I'll give you a deep link to post which will look like this -- http://mirror.blownfuze.org/[the rom's filename]
People click it, up pops the download dialog, Save, bam the thing downloads fast with no ads, no donation requests, no nothing. And if you get curious I can let you see how many people download your rom relative to the other roms I'm hosting and where these people are coming from geographically. That's icing on the cake; my primary purpose is to give back to the community without using paypal.
Three prerequisites -- it's gotta be intended for the Raphael, in English and you're a senior member.
Shoot me a message.
I second this motion!!
d0ugie gets it!
Rapidshare drives me nutz...
PS. Thanks Doug.
No offense meant but the problem with mirrors is that they don't last long. At least rapidshare is always there. Its a major PITA when a mirror site goes unavailable.
A BitTorrent pool might be a better option. But that would be dependent on people staying active as well.
i agree...rapidshare is bull$hit!!! and PayPal is a joke as well...help a brother out...
Paypal? Where did that come from?
I forgot to mention that I thought the thread title was a threat when I first read it...I read:
"Stop using rapidshare!! I'll mirror your MOM."
@d0ugie
Great idea though it ONLY makes sense if your mirror is stable.
Hope you know what you are buying into it?!
I have no bandwidth problem either and mirrored 2 Tilt and 2 Raph ROMeOS's... counts go up easy in the 100s of Gigabit/month (almost like on a xxx-site).
Just wanted to make you aware.
Sleuth255 said:
No offense meant but the problem with mirrors is that they don't last long. At least rapidshare is always there. Its a major PITA when a mirror site goes unavailable.
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Hey, a bit of topic but is there any chance there will be any public roms from you sleuth? i id love to see what you've been up to since the kaiser roms =)
+1, Informative
tyguy said:
@d0ugie
Great idea though it ONLY makes sense if your mirror is stable.
Hope you know what you are buying into it?!
I have no bandwidth problem either and mirrored 2 Tilt and 2 Raph ROMeOS's... counts go up easy in the 100s of Gigabit/month (almost like on a xxx-site).
Just wanted to make you aware.
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Hmm. 100Gb/month for romeos links, huh.
Well here's the setup: My own server (blownfuze.org) has a modest link to my ISP. The server and its connection are very stable and sturdy; I know what I'm doing with Linux machines and I've had the link for years without any interruption that I was aware of. On one of the ISP's servers I have a shell account with a 2GB quota and no explicit bandwidth quota, speed or cumulative. The cabs I host on my server and even in peak hours it has not been out of control, not enough that the people I serve websites for with the same machine have said anything regarding latency -- even with HostnameLookups turned on. The radios and roms however I put on my shell and when someone downloads a rom or radio from my server my server redirects them with a meta refresh file to the file on the ISP's server. Based on my trial run over the past month or whatever with my site, guaging how much traffic I'd sting the ISP with on their server with these rom mirrors, I think it's a safe bet my ISP won't object. I'm a good customer, we have a good relationship and they're a strong enough outfit to handle a customer giving out files for people to mess with their phones.
So yes there are now two points of failure, my server and the ISP cutting me off, but I can dodge both problems by, if my server fails, changing the A record on my mirror host on my domain to my office server (we have a ton of bandwidth we don't need) or if the shell thing becomes a dealbreaking issue I can just change the refresh tags on my server to point at my office.
I believe there is a "within reason" understanding in terms of the shell bandwidth usage as this ISP is connected to multiple bluechip telcos and even pumping out dozens of gigabytes a month wouldn't piss them off -- in my estimation. Again I've been a good and profitable customer of theirs for a long time (several years?) and doubt they'd just pull the plug on me but if they did I'd simply redirect those meta refreshes to the server in my office until I negotiated something either with my ISP or another company and would not leave rom authors just hanging. So by having the links go to my server I have control over where they are directed and I also enjoy the bliss of datamining my Apache logs to see whose rom is getting downloaded by how many people and from where those people are located. That's fun to me.
In light of your own experience however it would be prudent of me to have a chat with my ISP to make sure they're cool with this so that I don't make major commitments to XDA folk and then fail them suddenly -- even though I take the basic measures to keep my pages from being googled and botted and can get aggressive with mod rewrites and other Apache tricks to enforce only letting XDA people (not ppcgeeks and strangers from search engines and such), hits with xda in the initial referrer entry, download anything from my server (which triggers the fast shell download).
Nevertheless, for now, I am going to continue to proceed with caution, contact the ISP soon, and take it from there.
Thanks tyguy.
As long as no one uploads on rapidshare, then i'm good. 15 minutes between downloads is KILLER =(
Just wanted to make you aware of the issue d0ugie.
I too have no problems with my host and bandwidth and you seem to have some internet / web hosting experience but as example when i hosted ROMeOS2_150_5_ENG_20759_041208_conFUZEd.zip which was a pre-final it was downloaded 190 times during one day with a file size of 78.78 MB on the server, looking at the start and exit counts assumes some used download managers. Just be careful and get the ducks in line up front.
Let me give you some help to calculate:
Just use Windows "Start" - "Run" - "Calc", take the thumb of your left hand and pick your nose with the index finger of the right hand and make a good gestimate of popular ROM and theme demands and go from there.
Some help, that chickensh*t <essentials> packed behind my "ATT Fuze NOOBs only - Little setup guide. " started 14-12-2008, 05:02 PM is 20.20 MB was downloaded 276 times while the thread was viewed 2,179 times. Not sure if you always can gestimate 10% download ratio over views but ...
Don't wanna be a nerd but don't like get others burned as well.
How about a Bittorrent pool like someone suggested? That is the best idea IMHO. Torrents are always fast and worth it.
That was my first thought but P1Tator didn't take kindly to my post on the subject. Though when a major release gets going there could be added layers of redundancies with multiple trackers, you gotta have someone who knows what they're doing to start this, you got to have people maintain this, you need trackers on a reliable server like xda's and when you do that there must be some careful monitoring over what torrents are hosted by XDA-connected (or even just loosely-afiliated) trackers, who has access to it, which authors are trusted not to include anything sketchy so that an old copy of WMWifirouter or a cracked version of BeeLineGPS doesn't slip its way through the cracks. Not easy to delete an in-the-wild bittorrent share as you can delete a thread.
The word bittorrent itself starts fires. XDA needs to keep a low profile when it comes to its members behaving themselves and when you've got people messing with Microsoft's software and rebranding it as their own and then distributing it over a notorious method it could get ugly.
From a practical standpoint, a bittorrent download takes a while to get warmed up; a direct link from a solid mirror does not. Users have to have an additional client installed. A lot of us do already and those who don't can figure it out but we'd need more how-tos. From the serving standpoint or an additional more complicated database thing you'd find on other bittorrenting sites it just doesn't sound feasible especially when you have some people out there like me who can donate bandwidth (I'm vetting myself to make sure I can do this reliably). We're talking what, 70-100MB files here that people put a ton of time into and people who use these files shell out several hundered bucks for their phone and another hundred a month for their bill. Bandwidth is cheap and if we get people fired up a bit we can figure out how to host our own files without Rapidshare and friends or bittorrent.
Though I still like the idea. Certainly more than rapidshare.
I wrote my ISP a thoughtful letter to see how much is too much in terms of giving out bandwidth for mirroring. When they get back to me I'll get back to you all. If they say yeah sure go ahead, at least for the Raphael forums, problem solved. Mostly.
Kraize said:
How about a Bittorrent pool like someone suggested? That is the best idea IMHO. Torrents are always fast and worth it.
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d0ugie said:
That was my first thought but P1Tator didn't take kindly to my post on the subject.
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P1Tater not P1Tator.
All kidding aside. You have actually hit the nail on the head. Bit Torrents are frowned upon due to the large amount of publicity these create. Noone has ever said this but think about it. We strip shipped roms and tear them to shreds. We also take shipped apps not meant for "all" devices and port them to God knows what. We even have ported other OS to a WM device never meant for anything but WM. Plus, having a cooked rom come up in a torrent search/finder beside WAREZ and other files with virus' inside is not the publicity XDA is looking for. Not trying to come off all high and mighty, just want to keep XDA smooth and as trouble free as possible so we can continue to rip apps, port roms to other devices, and have our wonder developers continue to devlop apps for our devices without having to go to some sort of "store" (cough cough iStore) and buy every app that we want to install on our phones. Please understand, I just want to keep XDA as smooth and as trouble free as I possibly can without any "negative" publicity. That's all.
P1Tater said:
P1Tater not P1Tator.
All kidding aside. You have actually hit the nail on the head. Bit Torrents are frowned upon due to the large amount of publicity these create. Noone has ever said this but think about it. We strip shipped roms and tear them to shreds. We also take shipped apps not meant for "all" devices and port them to God knows what. We even have ported other OS to a WM device never meant for anything but WM. Plus, having a cooked rom come up in a torrent search/finder beside WAREZ and other files with virus' inside is not the publicity XDA is looking for. Not trying to come off all high and mighty, just want to keep XDA smooth and as trouble free as possible so we can continue to rip apps, port roms to other devices, and have our wonder developers continue to devlop apps for our devices without having to go to some sort of "store" (cough cough iStore) and buy every app that we want to install on our phones. Please understand, I just want to keep XDA as smooth and as trouble free as I possibly can without any "negative" publicity. That's all.
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Sleuth255 said:
No offense meant but the problem with mirrors is that they don't last long. At least rapidshare is always there. Its a major PITA when a mirror site goes unavailable.
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Well said and I agree with both of you. Rapidshare may not be for everyone but it does trick for right now.
I understand the hesitation with torrents and not wanting too much attention, but let's face it...Microsoft knows about this site, HTC knows about this site. Torrents aren't going to be any more negative publicity than it's gotten in the past about the FTP, and that was mostly because the files were directly linked to the site.
Hey I hear you with the c'mon argument.
Yes Microsoft and HTC know about us. I've gotten hundreds of hits from proxy server hosts under .microsoft.com downloading everything on my site and HTC has gotten plenty of love letters from us as well as petition websites brewed by XDA people. We don't really pose a threat to Microsoft though one could argue we have a tepidly adversarial relationship with HTC for our criticism of them and our attempts to generate negative publicity against them as well as our attempts to pressure them to do business differently (like with the Kaiser video driver saga). Though XDA may be some server in the Netherlands, we comprise XDA as we are clumped together in the minds of The Man when we do something The Man doesn't like so we, thanks to the likes of P1Tater and other volunteers, have to spend an enormous amount of time cleaning up not just spam and dumb threads but making sure no one posted Skyfire when it was recently in private beta and so on. We're on self-warez-patrol, defcon 1.
You add extracted and redesigned software with different branding artwork, possibly copyrighted software, operating systems, leaked or hacked drivers etc on top of that and you have a large happy community such as ours that is operating in the gray area. We're more good to MS and HTC than we are bad but if they so choose to exercise it they have power over XDA, power to kill XDA, and we must act accordingly. People can post cabs and links but there is some vague protection for XDA, sort of like Slashdot but with attachments, as those are posted by individuals and are therefore sort of owned by the poster not XDA and XDA with their moderators tries to operate in a manner that projects an air of good faith /in addition to/ helping Microsoft and HTC as we are a resource for ways they can produce better products. We're pretty harlmess -- why would HTC care if someone else cleans up after them with GPS driver fixes? Cheapest thing for them to do is copy /our/ work.
In the event of Microsoft or HTC or Opera or whoever developing a major grievance with something that goes down here and sends XDA a cease and decist letter that XDA cannot afford to defend themselves against and must comply with, demanding XDA to take down threads containing *, when you've got bittorrent in the mix as you're suggesting XDA loses the ability to comply swiftly and effectively with such a demand to the satisfaction of these potentially litigous companies if satisfying them includes pulling the plug fully on a proliferation of a file that made its debut here if it's floating around in bittorrent and making its way to the high traficked torrent portals with traces back to XDA.
No one cares about FTP and for these purposes no one even knows what FTP is. Rapidshare (or good samaritan mirror operations like mine) is not on the MPAA's hitlist either. But the reputation of bittorrent, even though those who defend bittorrent adamantly cite that it's great for kosher stuff too like Linux (and us), makes it not an option for XDA as XDA does, again, to some extent operate in a gray area and does not have the resources to do so with the audacity of providing bittorrent solutions in the event it needs to pay legal bills. XDA may not even know how gray our gray area is, doubt we have a lawyer on retainer. I doubt most lawyers would know the answers anyway. Unchartered territory (but gray territory). So XDA has to assume an MO of paranoia. Blending in bittorrent to XDA either with an XDA-sanctioned and maintained portal/tracker or just encouraging users with wikis and such on how to set up their own tracker when they release their own rom, given that there are other options, is bad for business. Now me I am not even going to bother researching how legal these roms are; I am cool with my ISP and I'll assume the risk by putting them on hosts directly connected to me and my identity but you won't find these roms on XDA's ftp server probably not just because their more than 1MB but because they are sketchy in nature. XDA can barely pay for bandwidth with these banners ads that most of us don't see with adblock and the small stream of donations. Where's XDA going to get $20K one day if **** hits the fan? Nowhere. Just because we've got thousands of members here, often extremely talented and good-hearted people, does not make us immune from total destruction and bittorrent gives that doomsday scenerio an elevetated probability.
XDA's doomed at best to walk on eggshells. Bittorrent is a four letter word. XDA cannot, in my estimation, live with it; certainly not when XDA can live without it.
motionmind said:
I understand the hesitation with torrents and not wanting too much attention, but let's face it...Microsoft knows about this site, HTC knows about this site. Torrents aren't going to be any more negative publicity than it's gotten in the past about the FTP, and that was mostly because the files were directly linked to the site.
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d0ugie said:
No one cares about FTP and for these purposes no one even knows what FTP is
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All of the rom files used to be hosted on the FTP, that's all I mentioned that for...were you around for that? Just don't remember how long ago that debacle was.
Also, I know there are invite-only networks and we already have to be a member of xda-dev to download locally hosted files, so what about a private p2p setup?
jonteponte said:
Hey, a bit of topic but is there any chance there will be any public roms from you sleuth? i id love to see what you've been up to since the kaiser roms =)
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Yeah same here.
Is there like a record for the longest written post in a forum?
Hi guys,
Just wanted to warn those of you who are mirroring custom roms that microsoft is watching what's happening.
Until know was mirroring the diff versions of ROMeOS from monx but just got an email from my hosting provider asking me to stop serving those files.
They included the original message :
Sujet : [contenu illicite] Nouveau contenu illicite
Date : Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:37:00 +0100 (CET)
De : Support OVH <[email protected]>
Pour : [email protected]
-url : monx.netxchanges.net/ROMeOS2/
-email : [email protected]
-Remarques :
Demand for Immediate Take-Down: Notice of Infringing Activity
URL: http://monx.netxchanges.net/
Case #: 206023
Date: 12 March 2009
Dear Sir or Madam,
Microsoft has received information that the domain listed above, which appears to be on servers under your control, is offering unlicensed copies of, or is engaged in other unauthorized activities relating to copyrighted works published by Microsoft.
1. Identification of copyrighted works:
Copyrighted work(s):
Windows Mobile 6.1
Windows Mobile 6.5
Copyright owner:
Microsoft Corporation
2. Copyright infringing material or activity found at the following location(s):
http://monx.netxchanges.net/ROMeOS2/6.5/ROMeOS2_V1_00_1_WM6_5_21169.rar
http://monx.netxchanges.net/ROMeOS2/ENG/ROMeOS2_ENG_21018_1902_050309.rar
...
http://monx.netxchanges.net/ROMeOS2/ENG/ROMeOS2_v1901_21018_010309.rar
The above copyright work(s) is being made available for copying, through downloading, at the above location without authorization of the copyright owner.
3. Statement of authority:
The information in this notice is accurate, and I hereby certify under penalty of perjury that I am authorized to act on behalf of Microsoft, the owner of the copyright(s) in the work(s) identified above. I have a good faith belief that none of the materials or activities listed above have been authorized by Microsoft, its agents, or the law.
We hereby give notice of these activities to you and request that you take expeditious action to remove or disable access to the material described above, and thereby prevent the illegal reproduction and distribution of this copyright work(s) via your company's network.
We appreciate your cooperation in this matter. Please advise us regarding what actions you take.
Yours sincerely,
James Young
Internet Investigator
on behalf of Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
United States of America
E-mail: [email protected]
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Since I'm an admin at PPCGeeks, we too have been getting take down notices from Microsoft, but so far its been about threads/posts in the forums and some attachments (XIPs, etc).
We just deleted the threads/posts/attachments. If there were rapidshare links in there, then I'm sure those links are still valid (if you know them), its up to Microsoft to contact Rapidshare to take those down.
ohh... crap!
That's unfortunate. Makes me want to burn every Microsoft product I've ever unwittingly purchased.
rlblue said:
ohh... crap!
That's unfortunate. Makes me want to burn every Microsoft product I've ever unwittingly purchased.
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Oh wow A Large company with big scary lawyers is trying to protect their product. This has never happened before in the history of the Internet.
Oh Wait...
Just chill out, if you have been on the internet enough you know that these things ebb and flow.
This is why I haven't, and never will, pay for a MS product.
votum said:
This is why I haven't, and never will, pay for a MS product.
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and that is why they will continue to do this
FatalCharade said:
and that is why they will continue to do this
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And the vicious cycle continues...
Woohoo! Time for a Ubuntu ROM!
people could just pm a cook etc. for d/l links...verify by how long a user has been here on XDA... sry noobs... otherwise, just wait it out...
votum said:
This is why I haven't, and never will, pay for a MS product.
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You visit this place and don't own a PocketPC or PDA?
If you do, you already payed a Windows Mobile licence.
hmm.
This is making me sweat a little as the "primary" mirroring man for some of Monx's roms.
d0ugie said:
This is making me sweat a little as the "primary" mirroring man for some of Monx's roms.
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I also recieved a mail from 'the Internet Investigator' LOL.
I requested an explanation in my mother-tongue, and an official written complaint through local authorities. Let's see how that goes.
If he can't provide, the file stays and he can s*ck my European (thank God for the European Law) b*lls
I HIGHLY suspect that the 6.5 stuff is what has gotten microsoft's attention and the rest is a 'while we are at it' bonus. Can't fault Microsoft for wanting to protect an upcoming release especially since the 6.5 stuff right now isn't really read for prime time and microsoft could make a pretty valid arguement that it is damage to the reputation of WM 6.5, and potentially causing a loss in future sales for 6.5. (Can't believe I just defended the big bad MS)
am I the only one who sort of sees this as Microsoft sort of shooting itself in the foot by doing this?
fishzine said:
I HIGHLY suspect that the 6.5 stuff is what has gotten microsoft's attention and the rest is a 'while we are at it' bonus. Can't fault Microsoft for wanting to protect an upcoming release especially since the 6.5 stuff right now isn't really read for prime time and microsoft could make a pretty valid arguement that it is damage to the reputation of WM 6.5, and potentially causing a loss in future sales for 6.5. (Can't believe I just defended the big bad MS)
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of course i understand MS' perspective on this, protecting new versions, etc... but the issue with 6.5 is that there is nothing that prevents it from running on existing devices, however they have stated that it will not be released for anything out right now. WTF? too bad another mirror went down, good luck getting them all
btw, james young doesnt have a MS account at all, just looked it up (usually they do)
ndn715 said:
of course i understand MS' perspective on this, protecting new versions, etc... but the issue with 6.5 is that there is nothing that prevents it from running on existing devices, however they have stated that it will not be released for anything out right now. WTF? too bad another mirror went down, good luck getting them all
btw, james young doesnt have a MS account at all, just looked it up (usually they do)
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Did Microsoft say that...or did the Operators say that? I've heard Operators say they won't be upgrading. Microsoft argument for countering the iPhone is along the lines of they don't won the hardware and can't control implementation.....
Let's calm down. We are community od XDA-DEVELOPERS - this board is like a legend. All the custom roms cannot be removed, 90% of users are here just becouse of new ROM's! I can understand MS but let's face the true, most of bugs findings, walkarounds and fixes for all MS products are developed by "illegal" product owners.
I know dozens of places where people makes mods, hacks, etc for every MS software but they have never been forced to remove it from their servers becouse of MS demands. Even Microsoft knows that, the best experts are madcaps from places like this, and they are MUCH more usefull then 1,000,000 "legal" idiots or noobs on MS discussion groups/boards.
I like M$, but sometimes they should seek for problems in the RIGHT places.
Cheers.
Rather than shutting down mirrors, MS should be enlisting the help of chefs, et. al. in releasing a version of 6.5 that the masses will actually appreciate. The problem is that MS takes way too much time to release a product that is usually obsolete by the time they get around to putting it out, and buggy. I can't begin to fathom counting the number of times I have expressed my loathing for MS programmers, be it with PC or PPC software / OS / etc.
They should be thanking XDA for trying to make their OSs perform better and enlisting the help of the very people that their "Internet Investigators" are trying to thwart. But maybe that's just my opinion.
alodar1 said:
Did Microsoft say that...or did the Operators say that? I've heard Operators say they won't be upgrading. Microsoft argument for countering the iPhone is along the lines of they don't won the hardware and can't control implementation.....
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http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/microsoft-announces-windows-mobile-6-5/
"Sadly, Microsoft's saying that no devices in the market today will receive official 6.5 updates, but don't pull out your wallets just yet, though -- the first devices with Windows Mobile 6.5 preinstalled should be available in the fourth quarter of the year."
rlblue said:
ohh... crap!
That's unfortunate. Makes me want to burn every Microsoft product I've ever unwittingly purchased.
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Go for it.
I am now personally hosting the site but may have lost the original domain name. All Imperium services and ROMUpdater servers are now gone and the new site is very limited. I now no longer personally host any files and have found a third party service that pays me per download. The following projects are now dead:
WebTop enable devices TabletDock
WebTop enable devices CarPC
Remote Access ROM Development Service
Anything Galaxy Tab
Anything GS2
Anything G2X
Anything not Photon related
The Martian Imperium site is now closed and in the process of being purged. In all likelihood there will be no new website and unless somebody here has a copy, all the files will disappear as well. iPage was the cheapest host I could find for the bandwidth users were pulling (500GB-1TB a month and over 1000 DL's a day). In addition to my own work, I was hosting all the SBF's, some high demand older ROMs and kernels, root-unlock-relock and other Photon related files.
I looked at alternate places to host but Mediafire would cost almost ten times as much and dropbox almost three times as much just to host files. I even covered the site in ads to help cover expenses with no real success. The core factor was that my wife and I went over the receipts yesterday and I have spent something like $1000USD this year in equipment and hosting. If I had received a $0.01 donation (after paypal takes it's cut) for every unique download I actually would have made money and been able to continue development. There were many things I had planned to release this year but as it stands I am leaving development and guide writing.
To those that have donated to me in the past I'm very sorry about this and will return your donations if you would like.
Thank you for the explanation, and all you've done. The sad fact is most don't send donations. Over the years that I've been on xda, I've only done it a half dozen times. I'm sure I should have done it more. I know development won't get you rich, but it shouldn't cost you. Thanks again for all you've done. Webtop and imperium are the ****!
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2
What started all this was a "We need to have a talk" email from my host. They had been very forgiving about the bandwidth usage but had enough and it was upgrade to business class service or leave. Meanwhile this is what I was working....
Remote Access Development Services. It's only a proof of concept at this stage but it's free to any dev that wants it.
I actually might be able to help you out if you think you can keep it below a TB a month.
Let me know and Ill go back and check my usage to see how much bandwidth I have left over. I think I get 2 TB a month and I dont believe Im quite using one.
I can help you out in the hosting department. My hosting is unlimited space and unlimited bandwidth per month. I use IX web hosting. If you would like, I'll throw your files up on my site so that anyone that needs them and get them... I can upload them and you can hotlink to them...
Let me know... I'm not able to donate $$$ (due to the fact that i don't have much myself) but I can donate space and bandwidth. The Photon 4G needs good developers, and I'd hate to see you go...
phqchevys said:
I can help you out in the hosting department. My hosting is unlimited space and unlimited bandwidth per month. I use IX web hosting. If you would like, I'll throw your files up on my site so that anyone that needs them and get them... I can upload them and you can hotlink to them...
Let me know... I'm not able to donate $$$ (due to the fact that i don't have much myself) but I can donate space and bandwidth. The Photon 4G needs good developers, and I'd hate to see you go...
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Most unlimited hosting plans. Will freak out after a tb a month.
Sent from my mopho
Just trying to help out...
But, you might want to check out there policies. There unlimited is truly unlimited... according to their TOS. That's why I went with them. Currently I have 5.91GB of used space and 518GB of bandwidth used this month... about average for me...
That's some BS right there. I've never used any of your work, but I've seen you around. (I have an Electrify, I can't use a lot of Photon stuff. Plus it's locked... 2.3.5.)
Seems like there should be a way, in this day and age, to croudsource the files somehow. Multiple dropboxes/sugar syncs/box.nets, or a torrent with a bunch of us hosting all the files. In fact if you can get just a few people with fast Internet at home to leave their BitTorrent client running, seeding your torrent, people could get that just as fast as they could from direct download. Linux uses BitTorrent, couldn't you do something like that? Hell, I only have 1.5MBit DSL, which lets me upload about 30kB/s before web browsing starts to lag, but I'd help seed. I don't have a Photon, but Electrify development kind of depends on Photon development.
Best of luck to you.
To All,
I appreciate the offers for file hosting but as the number of projects increase so would the bandwidth. The main source for the, to be honest, leeching is from locations outside xda. For example, China is responsible for a very large portion of it and have found hotlinking of my files in a couple of sites.
I was able to sell of some things today and have buyers lined up for others. I may be able to continue but at a much slower rate and will have to kill a number of pending projects.
I have found a possible solution but have had to kill a number of services. It also involves a very limited access website and file hosting has been moved to a service suggest to me by one of my users in Russia. I don't know how well this will work out as I will have to remove the update service from all future releases.
Please try the new site and let me know if it works. For now it's just a copy of the old site with a bunch of broken stuff. Unlike the old site, live site updates are now impossible and can only handle a limited number of connections.
Dark Reality said:
That's some BS right there. I've never used any of your work, but I've seen you around. (I have an Electrify, I can't use a lot of Photon stuff. Plus it's locked... 2.3.5.)
Seems like there should be a way, in this day and age, to croudsource the files somehow. Multiple dropboxes/sugar syncs/box.nets, or a torrent with a bunch of us hosting all the files. In fact if you can get just a few people with fast Internet at home to leave their BitTorrent client running, seeding your torrent, people could get that just as fast as they could from direct download. Linux uses BitTorrent, couldn't you do something like that? Hell, I only have 1.5MBit DSL, which lets me upload about 30kB/s before web browsing starts to lag, but I'd help seed. I don't have a Photon, but Electrify development kind of depends on Photon development.
Best of luck to you.
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You can say it's BS but there were a lot of things on the site the most free services do not allow. In addition to the site itself it had live support chat, a forum, an update server (think ROM Manager) as well as the entire Photon file archive and my own projects.
Multiple file hosting accounts makes file management a job unto itself. Torrents have been tried before with very little success.
Like I mentioned above, I have found a possible solution that may or may not work out but have had to kill a number of services.
I will be more than happy to do something as simple as setting you up a ftp server. You would have full access to your personal "ftp folder" on my hosting server... If interested, PM me and ill set it up...
Sent from my MoPho using the Official XDA Android App
Lokifish Marz said:
To those that have donated to me in the past I'm very sorry about this and will return your donations if you would like.
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I appreciate the offer but would consider it boorish to take you up on it.
Frankly, I think it's unnecessary for you to even consider making the offer, but not surprising given the nature of your efforts to help and support this community.
Let's just say that this is taking the concept of giving back to others a little too far.
I start my new job this Monday and once my money flows, I'll start donating to those who deserve it, i feel bad but yea glad to see your still around.
i have most of the same files (old ones at least) hosted on holylivingfuck.com in my sig, i do however have a new host (seperate from hlf) which ill be uploaidng all my copies onto as well. if you could be so kind as to update the guide with the links ill be sending you that would be awesome
trying to make sure that we dont have any lost files due to domains etc
Lokifish Marz said:
I am now personally hosting the site but may have lost the original domain name. All Imperium services and ROMUpdater servers are now gone and the new site is very limited. I now no longer personally host any files and have found a third party service that pays me per download. The following projects are now dead:
WebTop enable devices TabletDock
WebTop enable devices CarPC
Remote Access ROM Development Service
Anything Galaxy Tab
Anything GS2
Anything G2X
Anything not Photon related
The Martian Imperium site is now closed and in the process of being purged. In all likelihood there will be no new website and unless somebody here has a copy, all the files will disappear as well. iPage was the cheapest host I could find for the bandwidth users were pulling (500GB-1TB a month and over 1000 DL's a day). In addition to my own work, I was hosting all the SBF's, some high demand older ROMs and kernels, root-unlock-relock and other Photon related files.
I looked at alternate places to host but Mediafire would cost almost ten times as much and dropbox almost three times as much just to host files. I even covered the site in ads to help cover expenses with no real success. The core factor was that my wife and I went over the receipts yesterday and I have spent something like $1000USD this year in equipment and hosting. If I had received a $0.01 donation (after paypal takes it's cut) for every unique download I actually would have made money and been able to continue development. There were many things I had planned to release this year but as it stands I am leaving development and guide writing.
To those that have donated to me in the past I'm very sorry about this and will return your donations if you would like.
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Damn unfortunate for the Photon community if we lose you. Definitely one of the very helpful devs out there. I do understand what you mean...lots of people like to use the work...not many understand what it costs you in time and energy, not to mention cash money. Best of luck to ya!