Related
Hello everyone,
Getting my G2 tomorrow ad was wondering what's best to do for the initial charge ?
What did you all do and how do you find your battery because of it ?
Cheers James
hi there mate
I did a 3-4 hour charge until the battery was fully charged...the orange led charge thing goes green and its fine then
right now im managing to get a day with heavy use, which is good
Thanks immya
Any other advice please ?
I atcually do the same. But i repeat the process of fully charge and discharge the phone completly about 2-3 times. So the battery gets well trained. I repeat ist about every 2 months. I know it should not be relevant with those new batteries, but i found out it is, and the battery last longer.
jut my 2 cents
Cheers,
Chaos42
it's 2009, just charge it and use it.
when i got mine the battery was ~1/3 full, i charged it till ~2/3, then had to leave and completed the initial charge like two hours later, all works fine, getting somewhat between 4 hours and 3 days of usage.
chaos42 said:
I atcually do the same. But i repeat the process of fully charge and discharge the phone completly about 2-3 times. So the battery gets well trained. I repeat ist about every 2 months. I know it should not be relevant with those new batteries, but i found out it is, and the battery last longer.
jut my 2 cents
Cheers,
Chaos42
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey chaos42
What do you mean should not be relevent with the new batteries ?
Is there some sort of new batteries with the newer phones ?
Thanks
James
no, what i meant was what immya just said. that with the modern Li-Ion batteries you should not worry to much about how and when to charge. I just wanted to add that even it is 2009 i observed a far better battery lifecycle and stamina when you try to take care of your batterie. and charge it as decribed. that's my experience. at least for the initial 2-3 charges.
cheers,
chaos42
not that i am trying to discredit you here (in fact i would be very interested in such numbers myself), but did you do any tests or comparable setups to check the difference? because if we are talking about "a feeling" that you have this is IMHO not really relevant data. i would like to see two identical phones in a (at least) similar environment, performing the same tasks the same amount of time a day, and with that getting different runtimes on the battery for a period of a few weeks. these two phones don't need to be heros necessarily, as long as they have the same type of battery and can produce comparable results, but as long as this doesn't happen i myself rely on the tone on li-ion batterys in general. which is (and i am not able to quote or prove this): they are robust in terms of regular charging, and worrying about wearing the batterys in or training them isn't worth the effort. again no discredit here, but as long as no comparison has taken place there is effectively no data to analyze... just too much variables.
jameslfc5 said:
Hey chaos42
What do you mean should not be relevent with the new batteries ?
Is there some sort of new batteries with the newer phones ?
Thanks
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NiCad batteries work best when fully discharged before re-charging otherwise you get what is called the memory effect. If you are in the habit of topping up before being fully discharged the better 'remembers' how much you let it drain before charging it and then get's the idea somehow that this is what its capacity is and goes flat at the point that it 'expects' to be recharged.
NiMH batteries are much less prone to memory effect. They are the ones that need the 16 hour first charge then subsequent charges are shorter.
Li-Ion - lithium to its friends - are not supposed to suffer any memory effect at all. You are supposed to be able to top up as and when you want without any detrimental effects.
None of the above batteries will last forever and will need replacing after 2 or 3 years of daily use.
TheBrit said:
NiCad batteries work best when fully discharged before re-charging otherwise you get what is called the memory effect. If you are in the habit of topping up before being fully discharged the better 'remembers' how much you let it drain before charging it and then get's the idea somehow that this is what its capacity is and goes flat at the point that it 'expects' to be recharged.
NiMH batteries are much less prone to memory effect. They are the ones that need the 16 hour first charge then subsequent charges are shorter.
Li-Ion - lithium to its friends - are not supposed to suffer any memory effect at all. You are supposed to be able to top up as and when you want without any detrimental effects.
None of the above batteries will last forever and will need replacing after 2 or 3 years of daily use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely spot on!
These days batteries do not require dishcharging fully before recharging. Even if the person in the phone shop says "ensure you charge it for 12-14 hours before you use it", this doesn't matter - once the battery is fully charged, it stops charging itself anyway - even if you leave it plugged into a charger!
Same as what's being said already.
To add, it's even better to keep your lithium battery topped. Fully discharging them is actually bad for a lithium battery. Full discharge and heat is what's bad for a lithium battery.
For a nice reference, check this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery.htm
(the life and death part is what might interest you)
On a more interesting note. A long long time ago I got a MDA Compact aka Qtek s100. And there was a lot of debate here on the forums about the initial charge. In the manual it was stated that you should charge it for like 12 hours or something the first time. Then people obviously also said that was bull, because it had a lithium battery.
But! As for WM2003 it didn't save it's whole registry etc on the ROM but in the RAM. Once the battery was dead, bang! hard reset right there.
So they included a little NiMH battery in the s100 that would keep the RAM 'alive'. And that was the reason it needed such a long first charge, for the NiMH cell.
And for some reason a lot of manufacturers take an 'old' manual text for the first charge of a battery. Although that doesn't happen that often anymore. Especially in the beginning a lot of instructions of how to use a lithium battery were just plain wrong. And they put NiMH or even NiCad instruction in there!
Edit, some instructions as found here (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm). Talks about laptops, but it's the same nonetheless.
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
Consider removing the battery from a laptop when running on fixed power. (Some laptop manufacturers are concerned about dust and moisture accumulating inside the battery casing.)
Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
If you have a spare lithium-ion battery, use one to the fullest and keep the other cool by placing it in the refrigerator. Do not freeze the battery. For best results, store the battery at 40% state-of-charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do fastest discharge HD2? It is special softwar or trick to do it?
Why do you need to do this other than by leaving the phone on?
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
start pocketplayer and start listening to a radio stream. then start the camera and let it on. should be enough xD
or just boot android XD
Why? Because I had 2 batteries and is better first battery discharge to 0% before I started charge it.
D4rkSoRRoW said:
or just boot android XD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
it's really not a good idea to completely discharge Lithium ION batteries.. it does tend to screw them up a bit..
I used to work on batteries for a living and deep discharges are not good news.. ESPECIALLY with Li cells
"Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns"
taken from http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
nutmegy said:
it's really not a good idea to completely discharge Lithium ION batteries.. it does tend to screw them up a bit..
I used to work on batteries for a living and deep discharges are not good news.. ESPECIALLY with Li cells
"Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns"
taken from http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Interesting. But on the other hand side some people recomend sometimes full discharges. I do not know what is true
what the f***
everybody said it would be the best to fully discharge and then fully load the battery
my experience is the same Oo but the new batteries doesnt have memory effects, thats true, and its not so bad to partial charge them yea.. but i thought it would be still better to full discharge - charge them Oo
D4rkSoRRoW said:
what the f***
everybody said it would be the best to fully discharge and then fully load the battery
my experience is the same Oo but the new batteries doesnt have memory effects, thats true, and its not so bad to partial charge them yea.. but i thought it would be still better to full discharge - charge them Oo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just my experience with Lithium Ion I personally dont fully discharge because i worked on some Li cells for a project i was working on and they never recovered properly... and in some cases caused major damage to the cells themselves... just voicing my opinion
the main reason to do an (almost) full discharge / charge cycle with Li+ batteries is to callibrate the battery monitor circuits.
As said above there is no need to discharge Li+ batteries to prevent battery memory, , it doesnt happen with these, only NiMH batteries.
If the battery gets to 0% whilst the phone is in use, it still has some charge in it, because the protection circuits kick in and power off the phone when there is still some charge in it, so dont worry about getting to completely flat whilst in use, however forcing it to discharge, for example trying to enter bootloader over and over, or shorting the power connectors, can potentially cause problems, because the protection circuits aren't working correctly at that time.
The same goes for overcharging, you should never use direct charging devices, because these dont always have overcharge prevention circuits. You should only ever charge it in your device, or in a compatible charger. (So no building your own using two bare wires! ! )
Ya... I just got the gsii this morning and I'm very happy with it. Just curious as to do I need to charge the battery for 8h for 3 days or not. Thanks
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
No just full charge and use it .
jje
Woo hoooo
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Charge the battery, run it down to zero, charge to full, repeat for the first dozen ours so times, battery life has been improving in each cycle and I also recommend you do the same
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
But isn't flattening Lithium Ion batteries bad for them? If you search the internet it often says not to over discharge as well as under charging them also increasing their life span. The older NiMh and NiCd batteries benefited from full discharge and recharge.
Charge the battery, run it down to zero, charge to full, repeat for the first dozen ours so times, battery life has been improving in each cycle and I also recommend you do the same
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there's one way to send your battery to an early grave, this is it.
Modern batteries are limited by their number of discharge/recharge cycles. Letting the battery drop to 80% and then recharging is the same as letting it drop to 20%.
However, allowing the capacity to drop to zero is a stupid thing to do, since this permanently damages the battery. The battery has its own controller which goes some way towards protecting it, but it's a trade-off between shortening the lifetime and the actually runtime you can get from the battery.
So, to summarise: you're fine letting the battery drop to 10-20% before recharging. Do not allow it to fall below this too often, as you'll shorten the lifespan.
pbrown77 said:
But isn't flattening Lithium Ion batteries bad for them? If you search the internet it often says not to over discharge as well as under charging them also increasing their life span. The older NiMh and NiCd batteries benefited from full discharge and recharge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is 'bad' for Li-on batteries to be run down to zero. Ignore any posts you see saying otherwise.
Just charge it and use it. When possible, top up charge. Li-on batteries do not have memories and do not need to be 'conditioned'.
David Horn said:
If there's one way to send your battery to an early grave, this is it.
Modern batteries are limited by their number of discharge/recharge cycles. Letting the battery drop to 80% and then recharging is the same as letting it drop to 20%.
However, allowing the capacity to drop to zero is a stupid thing to do, since this permanently damages the battery. The battery has its own controller which goes some way towards protecting it, but it's a trade-off between shortening the lifetime and the actually runtime you can get from the battery.
So, to summarise: you're fine letting the battery drop to 10-20% before recharging. Do not allow it to fall below this too often, as you'll shorten the lifespan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nobnut said:
Yes it is 'bad' for Li-on batteries to be run down to zero. Ignore any posts you see saying otherwise.
Just charge it and use it. When possible, top up charge. Li-on batteries do not have memories and do not need to be 'conditioned'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, my bad, my Apologies, seems there's some way to go yet for me, I assumed this was the case as I had horrid life out straight out of the box, these discharge cycles helped tremendously, though with that being said I tend to not leave it below 15% now before I charge.
Oh well, live and learn.
Never discharge the battery to less then 10-15% if possible.
Aww crap I discharged it to zero last night. I thought out make sense cause back when I used the nexus one, there was this method of conditioning battery by discharging the battery. Ah well thanks guys
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Nurra said:
Aww crap I discharged it to zero last night. I thought out make sense cause back when I used the nexus one, there was this method of conditioning battery by discharging the battery. Ah well thanks guys
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't hurt that much. Contrary to what people say li-ion has limit on amount of recharge applied from whatever level it was applied. Also the phone cuts off before dangerous low levels are reached. However frequently doing this should be avoided.
The biggest danger is leaving phone in discharged state for long period of time as the background discharge (e.g. Power on off button, clock, etc.) will flatten the battery, without the protection circuits and completely ruin it; charging while hot (above 50 to 60 c) will also send battery to an early grave.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Why "deep battery cycling" or "conditioning," is bad for your battery
In summary, "conditioning" your battery is only good for calibrating the tools which predict how long your battery will last.
I.e. people seem to be recommending that new phones should be completely discharged a few times and then fully recharged. In some cases, people are recommending that the phones be left discharged for long periods of time before recharging. THIS IS A BAD IDEA AND WILL NOT HELP BATTERY LIFE.
Again, you can do this to calibrate the battery monitor, but this will not help the battery itself.
Here's a quote from wikipedia *since I am a new user I can't directly link but go to en(DOT)wikipedia(DOT)org/wiki/Li-ion_battery
Like many rechargeable batteries, lithium-ion batteries should be charged early and often. However, if they are not used for a long time, they should be brought to a charge level of around 40%–60%
Lithium-ion batteries should not be frequently discharged fully and recharged ("deep-cycled"), but this may be necessary after about every 30th recharge to recalibrate any electronic charge monitor (e.g. a battery meter). This allows the monitoring electronics to more accurately estimate battery charge.[27] This has nothing to do with the memory effect.
Li-ion batteries should never be depleted to below their minimum voltage, 2.4 V to 3.0 V per cell.
Li-ion batteries should be kept cool. Ideally they are stored in a refrigerator. Aging will take its toll much faster at high temperatures. The high temperatures found in cars cause lithium-ion batteries to degrade rapidly.
Li-ion batteries should not be frozen [50] (most lithium-ion battery electrolytes freeze at approximately −40 °C; however, this is much colder than the lowest temperature reached by household freezers).
Li-ion batteries should be bought only when needed, because the aging process begins as soon as the battery is manufactured.[27]
When using a notebook computer running from fixed line power over extended periods, consider removing the battery[51] and storing it in a cool place so that it is not affected by the heat produced by the computer.
Hope this helps someone.
Thank you DarkDvr, wikipedia credits to him
Also, feel free to read up at batteryuniversity(DOT)com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
*again, this is my first post so it wont let me link directly.
Good read. Al though, this is XDA after all and you will be flamed for using wikipedia as as a source. Just giving you heads up.
Lejjvi said:
Good read. Al though, this is XDA after all and you will be flamed for using wikipedia as as a source. Just giving you heads up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"battery conditioning" is only bad if you do it all the time and drain it completely dead often...
Lithium ion batteries don't really need this...
And should only be done if you think you have faulty battery stats due to flahing new software or roms....
We all know this and the people that don't now know.. thanks op for informing the uninformed!
sent from a 3devo
You need to condition it for the phones software as well... Otherwise it will shut off before the battery is actually dead. But yes, you shouldn't do it all the time.
People confuse why I needs to be done is all.
Yeah, should change the title. It's misleading.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D.
there is a diffrence between a deep cycle and a normal cycle.they are only resistant to developing a memory.
Yes, I know this xda, but this after reading some of the multiple battery life threads it seemed like there was some misinformation floating around. I mean, I know batteries are the cheapest part of the phone and easy to replace, but still. No point in going through all the trouble of multiple deep cycles when it actually does harm to the battery.
Also, I wonder what the people with 2 batteries do, and how this affects the battery meter. Or, if you switch to a higher capacity battery. At what point does the unit recalibrate itself?
So I have had mine sitting here all packaged up since tuesday.
And im looking to now actually open it and play with it,
Do you recommend I charge to full when off, or on? Perhaps run it dry and then charge it up?
You used to be told, Charge it for 8 hours before you use it...
That surely can't be true of todays rechargeable battery technology?
[Q] charging and battery damage
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
I assume that the touchpad has a charging circuit that stops it charging when the battery is full, but batteries will always fail after a while regardless. Lithium batteries are best charged often and not let run down too much in between.
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
Troute said:
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source? I thought lithium battery had no memory.
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
alexhayuk said:
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dev for Dr.battery's has a thread that states that leaving your Touchpad on the touchstone for long periods of time should not impact the battery. Due to it switching to powering the unit after its charged. Though he is doing some testing on that. Also his app should be updated soon for the Touchpad (available through preware). I am still going to contact HP to discuss this as well. I would hate to damage a non replaceable battery. Will update if I have any new info.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
Troute said:
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
Besides common aging, a Li-ion battery can also fail because of undercharge. This occurs if a Li-ion pack is stored in a discharged condition. Self-discharge gradually lowers the voltage of the already discharged battery and the protection circuit cuts off between 2.20 and 2.90V/cell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Basically through normal use you can probably expect around 250-300 full charge cycles (partial charges only count as partial and add up with other partial charges to be a full cycle) in an average battery pack before it has degraded to 80% of it's original capacity. I don't see anything that point to full discharges being damaging. However storing it for longer periods of time fully discharged can affect life.
ambivalent-one I think the figure of 250-300 charge cycles you've pulled from that page refer to deep discharge cycle tests done by them, personally I'd be very unhappy with that kind of lifespan in a battery in regular usage. The same page you've posted http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries shows a chart of charge cycles versus depth of discharge.
Table 2: Cycle life and depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Charges - Depth of Discharge
500 - 100% DoD
1500 - 50% DoD
2500 - 25% DoD
4700 - 10% DoD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you can see a L-ion battery can be made to last nearly ten times longer by keeping the charge level up near max.
Quote from http://www.batterieswholesale.com/damaging_batteries.htm
The Li-Ion cell should never be allowed to drop below about 2.4V, or an internal chemical reaction will occur where one of the battery electrodes can oxidize (corrode) through a process which can not be reversed by recharging. If this occurs, battery capacity will be lost (and the cell may be completely destroyed)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
karan1203 if you reckon the information about deep discharge not accurate, can you provide the results of your own research that shows this?
Just let it die the first time, then charge when under 5%.
karan1203 said:
I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your research must've been incredibly basic in that case. The 2nd result I get when Googling "lithium batteries" gives me the wikipedia page which has a small amount of into on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Look at the "Safety requirements" section for a start.
Also Google "lithium batteries discharge" returns some useful links.