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I never thought id see the day I'd get rid of my beloved Athena, but yesterday I had an awakening.
Only a few days before i'd had a play on an IPhone and marvelled at its intuitive, smooth and just bloody BRILLIANT interface. it almost shocked me just how crude, ill-thought-out and unsatisfying windows mobile is in comparison. Now please don't baulk at this statement; i'm NOT going to buy an IPhone, it doesn't do enough for me and it's overpriced. But remember, this is Apple's FIRST. need I repeat FIIIIRRRSSST attempt at the mobile os market. how have they got it right so effortlessly while Microsoft, with all their years of experience in the field continue to make such crap?
I have shaken off my bias towards Microsoft and now simply resent their seeming inability to produce a mobile os that works well.
I don't wish this thread to be about the iphone. We all know its only 2g, can't do mms and doesn't have a particularly good camera. what it does do it does WELL though.
The same is true of Nokia's n800 and n810 internet tablets with os2008. they play YOUTUBE with flash 9. they render web pages smoothly and effortlessly. they look and feel nice. my n95 also - its web browser loads up data-heavy web pages PHENOMINALLY quicker than my Athena, despite its processor and ram spec being distinctly inferior.
why am I getting rid of my Ameo?
Put simply: it just doesn't work. it works a hell of a lot BETTER thanks to PK and the developers, but to all intents and purposes, when you really need it to work, it just doesn't. This is true of ALL windows mobile devices.
How often have you needed to use Internet Explorer to check something on the fly and been frustrated by a constant 'connecting' or 'opening' message for no apparent reason? How often has your windows mobile device crashed, frozen or botched up for no reason? I could go on, but I prefer to give my own personal remedy to the situation, and here it is....
dig out my old Hermes, dust off the cobwebs. use this for all my organising, scheduling etc...
install WmWifiRouter so my Hermes acts as a perfect wifi access point when its HSDPA capabilities are required.
buy a shiny tiny black ASUS eee subnotebook for a little under 230 quid.
connect shiny tiny black ASUS eee subnotebook to Hermes access point when internet is required away from home.
sell Athena to anyone who hasn't realised Windows Mobile is crap yet.
it seems to me that Microsoft are about to fall under the shadow of Apple and Nokia quite abruptly. somebody tell me i'm wrong!
p.s. - Athena for sale if anyone wants one
sounds like you either did a bad flash or got a bad batch coz my athena has never crashed once or had any of the problems you described.never the less,how much are you selling it for?is it an x7501 or x7500?
i can see what your on about , but personally i find that my Athena(Ameo) ticks about every box i want it to.
I want an all in one device for browsing, streaming, phoning and texting and running some other apps and the Athena is the only all in one device that ticks all those boxes for me. I like the thought of the Eee PC but only if it can run XP properly but still you need 2 devices which isnt what i want to do.
Hi Leoni1980,
I think its a question of how you configure your device. I agree that WM6 in its native mode is crap. It takes too many strokes to start an applicatio. It does not tell you what applications are active. It is difficult to switch from one to another. Yes, the list could be long.
However, I also find that with WM6 there are so many good third party software to overcome these limitations. While it takes too many clicks to start an application, iLauncher allows me to put every single applications on the today screen. While Wm6 does not tell you what applications are alive, wktask puts every running application on the taskbar and let me switch to anyone easily. WM6 lets me multitask. While pocket IE is crude in its navigation, pieplus makes it all pleasant.
For me, everything works extremely well. Athena is almost perfect in terms of portability, battery life, screen size and connectivity..
However, I agree that internet browsing is too slow. Even comparing it with a dialed up connection on a pc, it is relatively slow, unless I use the "mobile" versions of webpages. With the mobile versions, everything is snappy and instantaneous. Is Nokia not like that? Is Nokia able to let you browse the desktop version of webpages without any response time delay? If it is, microsoft would truly got to wake up and do something about it. Another thing that we have to be careful is not to fall into the trap of thinking grass is greener on the other side. According to Nokia customer support the N800 does not support 802.1X authentication with EAP-TTLS and PAP. Also, despite being a Linux based device the N800 lacks out of the box support for Ogg format media files.
So, Nokia is able to play the desktop version of youtube. I agree that this is a glaring disadvantage of Wm6 at the moment. W don't have the latest version of flash. Why is this the case is hard for me to understand. Why can Nokia have it and not WM6? Now, the only way to watch youtube desktop version is to download the flv files. Would be nice to be able to watch them without having to first download the videos.
You're now carrying two devices. A subnotebook and an old Hermes. This is definitely not a good way for me, because the subnotebook is too big and too battery short for me to carry it with me all the time. Not to mention that now there are two pieces of gear to carry instead of just one.
Having an all in one requires some compromises. You won't have the best digital camera in the world with this arrangement. Similarly, you won't have the biggest screens to go with it. There is always room for improvement, but for now, I still think Athena is the best device available in the market.
if i had to carry the subnotebook about ALL THE TIME i would agree, however i have the hermes for when i'm unfortunate enough to have to use internet explorer mobile.
The EEE is not actually THAT MUCH bigger than the Athena, and has very good battery life- almost twice that of the Shift running Vista. It is also capable of running full Xp. there are lots of videos on the subject and the EEE manual even tells you how to do it. Although on paper the EEE has a poorer battery life it is also far more responsive and thus allows me to do things in a quarter of the time it would on the Athena. As such battery life is not really an issue.
With regard to the N95's ability to display full web pages - I promise you this is the case. I've even found it capable of accessing sites the Athena was not capable of.
I initially wrote this off as perhaps a better 3g transmitter on the N95, but i tested my Athena over wifi for the first time the other day and still it rendered web pages in a painfully sluggish manner, despite our relatively fast broadband connection. The same was true when tested with Opera. This makes me believe that there is an inherent problem with the architecture of windows mobile which even the greatest developer couldn't overcome.
I wholly disagree with shortyboy's bad flash assertion - I've owned windows mobile devices for years and this problem has always existed.
Nor is it a configuration issue. I spend most of my days off tweaking phones to improve their performance. The fact is that no amount of tweaking will make an Athena as good at rendering web pages as a nokia or an iphone. Once microsoft sees this they might (we hope) scrap their plans to release wm7 with (no doubt) its FEW performance tweaks, the cute little flag in the top left-hand corner and the new, hardly-improved I.E. and build a whole new O.S. from scratch which makes the most of modern mobile cpus, doesn't look 10 years old and does everything it should out of the box. That way stupid hybrid devices like the Shift would never get off the ground as there would LITERALLY be no need for them.
Yes the Athena ticks every box in terms of connectivity - unfortunately this fact clouded my judgment of its actual performance - and that of all such devices - yes you can purchase all the third party software under the sun to make windows mobile usable but this software only makes life a little better, it doesn't FIX the problems.
Just have a play on an n810 when it comes out this month and you'll see what I mean -os2008 is so smooth, well-considered and functional. Just try browsing the internet on it, or watching a video on it. It just WORKS and works well. Even OS 2007 outperforms windows mobile.
Cex sell n800s for 200quid. This month they will all be upgradeable to os2008. The pocket gadget side of me is SORELY tempted!!
p.s. its an x7500 t-mobile branded. It has the 4-in-one and lots of other bits.
I agree with many of your points on the Athenas lack of usability.
Mine is used for little more than a wireless access point these days, I'm in prison typing this on my Asus Eee pc running XP, which is much more of a pleasure to use for email and web browsing. (Not in prison as an inmate, I'm an officer...)
This nokia N800. It does not have a GPS, does it?
How about third party software?
I hope to check out on this myself. Anyone knows where in Sydney I could try out this device?
athena project need an athena
Midget_1990 said:
athena project need an athena
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its here if you need it Midget.
eaglesteve - the n800 has no inbuilt GPS receiver, although it is compatible with map software (including gmaps and Nokia Maps) and any bluetooth receivers. Many people prefer separate gps receivers as they can be positioned more effectively in the vehicle. It is pretty much identical in hardware terms to the n810 aside from the built-in keyboard and GPS. processor and ram are the same and it has two SDHC slots as opposed to the single one on the n810.
I think it's a bargain myself.
Took delivery of my black eee pc today and I'm so impressed by its size and performance. Everything works out of the box, from BBC online to divx stage six to youtube. It even picks up and syncs with my Ipod, and you can mod the look of the os to your heart's content.
ALL FOR JUST OVER 200 QUID!
It's bigger than the Athena, sure, but I had to carry the Athena in a bag anyway and the weight/mass difference is negligible in this scenario. The battery life is not technically as good either - but it boots SOOOOOO quick that this almost isn't an issue. I can fire it up and use it when I need it if I'm out, and merrily use my old Hermes for practical pocket pc/telephone duties - even Wifi access point functionality.
I literally don't need the Athena anymore.
I don't like a separate GPS unit. It means I need to carry two devices when I play golf, and can't get the fix prior to entering my car. Also, when I get off the train and walk, I can't use it to tell me direction to my destination as easily as Athena.
I still think Athena is the best for now. But I'm all ready to switch if there is a better product. I don't see such a product yet.
WM6 = WM5
Just think about that and try to realize that Windows Mobile 5 is A LOT OLDER than the OS'es on the iPhone and N800/N810.
WM7 will change a LOT on an HTC. (Different shell, different hardware)
And before you insult HTC, you need to wait on the new OS.
Agree.
WM6 is still based on ce5. Ce6 is about to be released. Looking forward to major major improvements
@ leoni's posts mainly
heh when i was in the US i had a chance to see the iphone. ... i was probably expecting too much, the crazy hype had me believe it had a truly revolutional interface and lots of amazing animations.
nope.
it was sorely disappointing... just a few ordinary tricks, nothing special or anything that would make the device more usable... for example, i prefer being able to multitask in a way i can see what apps are running without clicking anything, also a way to easily switch.. basically the good old taskbar
...so, i wouldn't be able to live without magicbuttons, or now, without wktask on WM6. yes WM GUI sucks out of the box at least as much as the iphone gui, but at least you can install these wonderful apps!
to be honest i still prefer plain CE because that has all this and more working out of the box - much nearer a real PC than the too much simplified down WM ... as i said only third party apps save WM.
where we disagree is i think the apps do fix most of the issues of WM.
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
...though, i don't see how the iphone has any kind of word processor onboard.
i don't give a damn if it can't do MMS or 3G (i'm fine with gprs when i turn off pictures in the browser and i'm using vodafone's great APN which compresses data), and i don't care for the camera on any mobile phone so far.
what i need is just office and a proper browser and irc client and some more apps, and the iphone has NONE of those. crazy how limited it is.
oh before you start telling me how fabulous the browser is on the iphone ... it is not. it is slow loading pages, and the requirement of zooming in and out drives me crazy. and, the real deal breaker is how i could not open links in a new window at will. i do not mean opening a new empty window, i mean opening a link on an already loaded page, in a new window!! no one so far could show me how so i'm assuming it lacks this basic capability - for me, absolute dealbreaker, i cannot comfortably browse pages without that option.
i'd like to see the n800, though, the OS i hear is sluggish when multitasking. so i'm just curious about the browser.
200 quid.. hmm the 770 is only 100 : ) tempting yes, just no keyboard so that's a bit of an issue to me.
i'm not sure if your athena has no specific issues... i don't have the complaints on mine that you do... mine doesn't crash (except for above mentioned slow down but no reboot is required) and the browser is fast. but, i don't touch pocket internet explorer, i've never ever tried using it on the athena. opera is just so much faster and has none of the quirks of crappy PIE
so no, i don't have this "connecting" or "opening" message problem as i don't touch PIE.
also, opera here is quite fast! not sure what your issue is with it...
though maybe not as fast as the opera on my zaurus C760 pda linux does excel at browser speed options!
all in all... yes WM sucks, and microsoft should fix this, but until then i'm happy with wktask and the amazing hardware of the athena. finally a ppc that has a good enough (large enough) display which looks good in realvga too!! yeah realvga is again third party add on ... sigh! so to be really honest i wouldn't touch WM (except for hacking things! ), and would just use plain CE if it weren't for htc universal / athena (mainly athena!) and some essential third party apps. well CE is made by microsoft too so i don't understand how they got it so wrong with WM.
CE6 will be based on a different memory architecture and improved security (grr for hackers) and many other things, so i'm curious, but for me the GUI is the issue on WM and not really the kernel except for the couple of slow downs i mentioned. other than that WM5 and later seem to be exceptionally stable to me and no slow down just because i'm running several apps at once! i find that great!
so i'm hoping MS gets themselves together and improve on the GUI but please don't imitate the iphone - i like CE better. this is quite a personal view of course.
one last note.. as for the EEE, battery life and size is an issue for me. so sticking to athena (and my universals and my CE devices)
yes the EEE is that much bigger than the athena. :sigh:
also some of the tasks i use my devices for, cannot be done in a shorter time on XP, for example if i want to go online and chat for a few hours...good battery life is a must
ok i'll stop ranting here .. but this is such an interesting subject
p.s.: how is that i can only insert four smilies?! had to remove three because i typed seven of them, wtf
I saw an Asus Eee today in black.
looks very very nice for the money, the missus said she might buy it 4 me for xmas if I want it
hmm decisions decisions
spacecat said:
I saw an Asus Eee today in black.
looks very very nice for the money, the missus said she might buy it 4 me for xmas if I want it
hmm decisions decisions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got the black one myself on thursday through Ebuyer, though I believe they're out of stock at the mo. I've installed XP on it just to test it and it works perfectly, even the webcam works fine. It boots up in seconds which is unfamiliar territory for me!
I quite like the Linux interface though so I might go back to it eventually. Everything worked out of the box- youtube, stage 6, even Ipods. Only real prob I had with Linux was that I couldn't use Activesync but I liked the amount of tweaking you can do to it.
If you need any pics, comparisons or whatnot I can post them or forward them. I won't be looking back. It's a brillliant bit of kit, especially for the money.
p.s. you can even install mac osx on it, though the procedure is a tad complicated for me.
cmonex said:
@ leoni's posts mainly
heh when i was in the US i had a chance to see the iphone. ... i was probably expecting too much, the crazy hype had me believe it had a truly revolutional interface and lots of amazing animations.
nope.
it was sorely disappointing... just a few ordinary tricks, nothing special or anything that would make the device more usable... for example, i prefer being able to multitask in a way i can see what apps are running without clicking anything, also a way to easily switch.. basically the good old taskbar
...so, i wouldn't be able to live without magicbuttons, or now, without wktask on WM6. yes WM GUI sucks out of the box at least as much as the iphone gui, but at least you can install these wonderful apps!
to be honest i still prefer plain CE because that has all this and more working out of the box - much nearer a real PC than the too much simplified down WM ... as i said only third party apps save WM.
where we disagree is i think the apps do fix most of the issues of WM.
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
...though, i don't see how the iphone has any kind of word processor onboard.
i don't give a damn if it can't do MMS or 3G (i'm fine with gprs when i turn off pictures in the browser and i'm using vodafone's great APN which compresses data), and i don't care for the camera on any mobile phone so far.
what i need is just office and a proper browser and irc client and some more apps, and the iphone has NONE of those. crazy how limited it is.
oh before you start telling me how fabulous the browser is on the iphone ... it is not. it is slow loading pages, and the requirement of zooming in and out drives me crazy. and, the real deal breaker is how i could not open links in a new window at will. i do not mean opening a new empty window, i mean opening a link on an already loaded page, in a new window!! no one so far could show me how so i'm assuming it lacks this basic capability - for me, absolute dealbreaker, i cannot comfortably browse pages without that option.
i'd like to see the n800, though, the OS i hear is sluggish when multitasking. so i'm just curious about the browser.
200 quid.. hmm the 770 is only 100 : ) tempting yes, just no keyboard so that's a bit of an issue to me.
i'm not sure if your athena has no specific issues... i don't have the complaints on mine that you do... mine doesn't crash (except for above mentioned slow down but no reboot is required) and the browser is fast. but, i don't touch pocket internet explorer, i've never ever tried using it on the athena. opera is just so much faster and has none of the quirks of crappy PIE
so no, i don't have this "connecting" or "opening" message problem as i don't touch PIE.
also, opera here is quite fast! not sure what your issue is with it...
though maybe not as fast as the opera on my zaurus C760 pda linux does excel at browser speed options!
all in all... yes WM sucks, and microsoft should fix this, but until then i'm happy with wktask and the amazing hardware of the athena. finally a ppc that has a good enough (large enough) display which looks good in realvga too!! yeah realvga is again third party add on ... sigh! so to be really honest i wouldn't touch WM (except for hacking things! ), and would just use plain CE if it weren't for htc universal / athena (mainly athena!) and some essential third party apps. well CE is made by microsoft too so i don't understand how they got it so wrong with WM.
CE6 will be based on a different memory architecture and improved security (grr for hackers) and many other things, so i'm curious, but for me the GUI is the issue on WM and not really the kernel except for the couple of slow downs i mentioned. other than that WM5 and later seem to be exceptionally stable to me and no slow down just because i'm running several apps at once! i find that great!
so i'm hoping MS gets themselves together and improve on the GUI but please don't imitate the iphone - i like CE better. this is quite a personal view of course.
one last note.. as for the EEE, battery life and size is an issue for me. so sticking to athena (and my universals and my CE devices)
yes the EEE is that much bigger than the athena. :sigh:
also some of the tasks i use my devices for, cannot be done in a shorter time on XP, for example if i want to go online and chat for a few hours...good battery life is a must
ok i'll stop ranting here .. but this is such an interesting subject
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't deem that a rant. Some very fair points very well put.
I must admit my experience of the Iphone is not as extensive as yours so I'll have to capitulate on that one. Though it seems to ace out windows mobile in terms of user input (on screen keyboard) and generally usability - takes a long while to get used to windows mobile if you've never experienced it.
I never experienced any slowdown on the n800 and i tested it a fair bit. With the os2008 upgrade things should only get better. It's a lot more user-friendly and the new os includes Firefox (which I prefer) instead of Opera.
I appreciate that the EEE is bigger than the Athena. when I said 'not that much' I meant that when carrying the EEE in the supplied case in a bag, compared to carrying the Athena in a bag - which I used to do in preference to cramming the device intpo my pocket - the difference is negligible.
I used to carry a bt keyboard and mouse with it also. Now compared to carrying a separate keyboard and mouse AND an Athena the difference is CERTAINLY negligible.
I can do everything on my old Hermes that I can do on the Athena - yes chatting and PDA stuff - and it has a better battery life. It also fits in my pocket nicely when I'm out and about.
For when I need full browsing, multimedia and office capability I've got the EEE - which is VERY portable, very rugged and even has a webcam if you want to do slightly more advanced chatting!
This is why I'm happy with my current setup.
leoni1980 said:
I didn't deem that a rant. Some very fair points very well put.
I must admit my experience of the Iphone is not as extensive as yours so I'll have to capitulate on that one. Though it seems to ace out windows mobile in terms of user input (on screen keyboard) and generally usability - takes a long while to get used to windows mobile if you've never experienced it.
I never experienced any slowdown on the n800 and i tested it a fair bit. With the os2008 upgrade things should only get better. It's a lot more user-friendly and the new os includes Firefox (which I prefer) instead of Opera.
I appreciate that the EEE is bigger than the Athena. when I said 'not that much' I meant that when carrying the EEE in the supplied case in a bag, compared to carrying the Athena in a bag - which I used to do in preference to cramming the device intpo my pocket - the difference is negligible.
I used to carry a bt keyboard and mouse with it also. Now compared to carrying a separate keyboard and mouse AND an Athena the difference is CERTAINLY negligible.
I can do everything on my old Hermes that I can do on the Athena - yes chatting and PDA stuff - and it has a better battery life. It also fits in my pocket nicely when I'm out and about.
For when I need full browsing, multimedia and office capability I've got the EEE - which is VERY portable, very rugged and even has a webcam if you want to do slightly more advanced chatting!
This is why I'm happy with my current setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like i said wait till dual comes out. the team had a breakthrough yesturday and a new app will be in dual.. more details when rom comes out.
cmonex said:
@ leoni's posts mainly
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder what your thoughts are on Softmaker office Textmaker, which should be superb on the athena in 96dpi? You may not even get the slowdown that you describe in Word. I use PlanMaker (their spreadsheet) and it works quite well in (96dpi) on my athena.
leoni1980 said:
Got the black one myself on thursday through Ebuyer, though I believe they're out of stock at the mo. I've installed XP on it just to test it and it works perfectly, even the webcam works fine. It boots up in seconds which is unfamiliar territory for me!
I quite like the Linux interface though so I might go back to it eventually. Everything worked out of the box- youtube, stage 6, even Ipods. Only real prob I had with Linux was that I couldn't use Activesync but I liked the amount of tweaking you can do to it.
If you need any pics, comparisons or whatnot I can post them or forward them. I won't be looking back. It's a brillliant bit of kit, especially for the money.
p.s. you can even install mac osx on it, though the procedure is a tad complicated for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my current thinking is to get one and leave it at work, which is where i do most of my 'ATHENAring' ...is that a word !
And use my athena as an HSDPA modem for the Eee with XP installed on it.
I would then keep my Athena for when im out and about and NOT at work, hence keeping the full Athena mobility including the important ability to make calls and send texts.
Im not in a terrible hurry to do this and i understand that Asus are going to bring out upgraded versions of the Eee.
Bigger drives , 10 inch screen etc. Mind you its the small form factor that interests me esp as i may want to carry the Eee at some point.
I am however still well into my Athena and by the rom updates, looking forward to the DUAL rom which sounds exciting but im clueless as to what it can do more than PK3.0
Did Pawel062, ltxda, Cmonex and Olipro give up on the Athena and move on to the polaris?
Its been a couple of months since the their last rom and I have been hoping to try another one. Has it really been two months?
Wonder if anyone else is willing to build one, or Midget update his rom kitchen with new os and easier to use like pandora's kitchen for Hermes, or will the original group still release their secret rom version 4?
A new rom from Pawel062 would be my preference tho.
Post #423 in the AP Dual Thread indicates they are working on it.
they will be releasing a surprise in a few days or weeks that will make our athena become more powerful. Maybe a video driver fot he ati chipset?
They have said it will be a while before V4 is released so more likely weeks rather than days. Not sure what else they can add but I'm sure it will be great.
In the mean time I'm happy with V3
an update for the kitchen is on its way
takes longer because i have to get someone with an athena to test it
well im waiting to recieve a new build *cough* midget.. the new build with have the latest of all the apps. we before have been working on expanding the os.nb so more will fit in the rom making the extended rom maybe even empty. this would mean u would have as much storage as if u wouldnt let anything install from extended rom.
we are hopping to also maybe get the snapvue orientation done for 4.0 I dont know if what we want will work but we haven't really tried yet. remember also im working t the same time on a polaris rom for those people. that doesnt mean i aint working here. i am using a newer beta of a build i got a few weeks ago. too bad this build isnt releaseable.
we have a few more suprises up our sleeves but i cant reveal everything
Thanks for the update Midget and Pawel, can't wait to see your latest developments. We appreciate both of your efforts and time spent to make our devices more productive and usefull. And thanks to ltxda for his contributions, testing and very helpfull responses to many, many questions.
Since 6.1 for UNI is released, I can post here a basic clean 6.1 ROM for athena.But Before that I must take permissions from Oli and Pawel, if they say yes, then I do that.
no need. we will have same space if clean or full as said previously. u probable have seen this already.
hdubli said:
Since 6.1 for UNI is released, I can post here a basic clean 6.1 ROM for athena.But Before that I must take permissions from Oli and Pawel, if they say yes, then I do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you give us your initial impression of 6.1 versus 6? I'm very curious to know the difference in terms of performance, signal strength, battery life, and what major UI enhancements there are.
Thanks!
hdubli said:
Since 6.1 for UNI is released, I can post here a basic clean 6.1 ROM for athena.But Before that I must take permissions from Oli and Pawel, if they say yes, then I do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A clean basic one would be fantastic. I don't mind not using up the space as long as I don't have unwanted software appearing. I would rather install all software myself, so that I can choose my own and upgrade to newer version whenever I want.
Would be fantastic to go to 6.1 now. Can you PM me to let me have it please?
I was about to stop using athena, but then came 6.1 and I could cook using pawel kithen with T mobile wm6 ROM as a base ROM.It became so responsive that i can't imagine.very fast and snappy, feels like there is a 624 Mhz processor.Threades SMS is good, and now u hv signature "Sent from my Windows Mobile Device" in mails, and some improvement towards phone side, viz easy contact lookup.
Would be great to see a nice clean ROM with as less as possible! can hardly wait to discover what you can do with 6.1!!
yetdy said:
they will be releasing a surprise in a few days or weeks that will make our athena become more powerful. Maybe a video driver fot he ati chipset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Checking the registry, the filesystem, and the ati config txt file in \windows, it looks to me like the ATI is very much being supported. Its not the same issue as the big Qualcomm problem HTC is having - the Advantage is a PXA270+ATI.
The video playback issue is likely due to the fact that TCPMP/CorePlayer team have *never* gotten their ATI support sorted. Since thats the only player we've got, the problem effects everyone.
Performance on my x7501 is about the same as my HX4705 and the registry settings indicating ATI drivers are definitely there.
HKLM\Sytem\DDraw\DeviceEnum indicated ace_ddi.dll (thats the ATI driver)
\Windows has the ATI driver files and also the config file: atihwtbl0.txt
Selecting Imageon Decoder in TCPMP *does* work, the support just totally sucks and their support is for a different Imageon series to begin with (the 3200). The CorePlayer team claim they expect to sort out the ATI issues and have been working with ATI. We'll have to wait and see.
other than TCPMP, video performance for me on the Advantage is fine (scrolling, games, menus, etc). The symptom of having no driver support (as on the Qualcomm chipset) is horrible ddraw performance all over the place (scrolling, switching orientation, etc)
OK, so we are now saying that Athena has got ATI supported?
If so then why is media player so crap at playing videos full screen? Or has Microsoft not integrated ATI support properly into that too?
The whole thing is a shambles as Microsoft and HTC clearly work closely together as the wizard has been a part ofthe MS Windows Mobile website for ever and they cant use the image etc without permission can they....
If it's TCPMP's fault then shame on them... letting this run away with us and not bothering to comment that it's their fault all along!! You're not telling me they dont read this forum! LOL Come on guys own up and let's get on with things. The Athena is a brilliant machine let down by a few niggles that can easily be sorted I'm sure!
Basically yes, thats what Im saying.
WMP has always been pretty horrible on Win Mobile, so I dont even count that.
TCPMP support for ATI has always been REALLY bad going ALL the way back. My first VGA ATI device was the Toshiba E750! They've never gotten it right. They have always blamed ATI but claim (now that they are a commercial entity) that ATI is working with them and a final fix MAY be in 1.2 (which MAY be due in Feb)
You can go to coreplayer.com, search for ATI and see the gory details. WAY more devices have had the Imageon chip then this batch and NONE of them have been good. The Qualcomm chips have a different problem. If you check the registry, I believe that on those guys, the generic MS drivers are referenced and the ATI drivers arent included. Im not sure if anyone has tried copying them on and changing the registry, but the key would be getting that ATI driver config txt file right. That would be hard I think.
On the x7501, that stuff is all there. It looks JUST like my HX4705 just with different settings in the ATI txt (which makes sense - its a different Imageon). That leads me to believe that the ATI is integrated just fine.
What leads us to believe it isnt? TCPMP performance and WMP performance right? Well... performance on those has sucked for EVERY Imageon device and is an acknowledged issue by them.
This is good news really! If 1.2 comes out in Feb and does what they say,these issues on the Advantage will go away. The HTC Qualcomm devices will still suck.
The way it works with MSFT isnt quite what you'd imagine. They supply the OS and its agnostic. They supply it to OEMs and it requires two key things in order to actually be implemented - a BSP (board support package) and a RIL (radio interface layer). It is up to the OEM (HTC in this case) and the radio provider (often Qualcomm) to come together and integrate the Win Mobile OS onto the hardware and "plug it in" to those two lower level components.
Its almost like imagine if Windows NT was out of MSFT control from the HAL on down. Thats how it is with Win Mobile basically. Its a deliberate decision to give OEMs and carriers power and hence 1) stay out of monopoly court which is where EVERYONE wants MSFT ALL the time from now on and 2) encourage them to actually jump on board (in the face of powerful phone incumbants).
It can be good and bad. The good its lots of devices from all kinds of folks with all sorts of neat possible hardware and a common set of APIs, system software and UI. The bad is **** like this debacle with HTC. Apple and Nokia would be the diametrical opposite. Where the hardware OEM is also fully integrating the OS and, presumably, the radio and just submitting it to a carrier for compat testing. They have monolithic control over their devices and are, in essence, monopolies within their platform. Qualcomm is a pain in the ass in that they are a huge radio provider, jumped into software with BREW (which got huge traction) and generally is a powerhouse in the mobile space, yet is notoriously very difficult to work with and pretty draconian.
This question mostly goes out to the fantastic Erofich/partizan and GnatGoSplat.
Microsoft just released images of Windows Mobile 6.1.4 with Internet Explorer Mobile 6, both standard and pro.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...52-F89E-4354-84CE-5D19C204498A&displaylang=en
I would really love to see a ROM based on this, especially since Internet Explorer Mobile made some impressive jumps in the right direction:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Test_new_IE_Mobile_6_on_a_free_emulator_for_VS_2008/1226521286
I do believe that the better usability of the Windows Mobile Standard on the StrTrk far outweighs the benefits of the Pro version, so my vote is for porting the Standard version first.
Bet If we throw some donations his way we could get it done
is done
now i am testing it :d
BR
dont get hopes high its slow as hell and it freezes up a lot i've been using it for the past 4 months thx to sun_dream, and yes im talking about PIE6
ie 6 is out of discution
i have cooked an the rom woth it and is slow
i will release an rom without it
and an kitchen if you want to test it
BR
Thanks for your replies. After reading up on the IE Mobile 6 topic a little bit it, I do agree that IE6 on the StrTrk is a bad idea and since the 6.1.4 ROM doesn't offer any other significant changes there aren't any good reasons to put too much effort into it. Thank you anyways
IE6 is faster and overall better for me, but I've observed bugs too. It's hard to know if the bugs are in the IE rendering engine or malformed web pages.
My biggest issue, which I think creates another issue is:
1) 1-column rendering is gone and as a result some WAP pages will have scroll-bars even though they aren't necessary
I know a while ago there was talk of cotulla and friends getting WM6.5 to run off SD, does anyone know anything from irc or anywhere if this was completely abandoned?
would be pretty cool.
haven't heard anything, though not too up to date on the IRC stuff.
but no talk here minus that one post by cotulla.
if i may, what is on WM that android doesn't have? i don't use my phone but for a few programs (specific work things) and modding is mainly a distraction for me...but am curious how a dual-OS existence works in real life. just pondering. (now i am all about the development as well, it is bad ass to have options, but just philosophizing..if that is a word...)
jsmccabe78 said:
haven't heard anything, though not too up to date on the IRC stuff.
but no talk here minus that one post by cotulla.
if i may, what is on WM that android doesn't have? i don't use my phone but for a few programs (specific work things) and modding is mainly a distraction for me...but am curious how a dual-OS existence works in real life. just pondering. (now i am all about the development as well, it is bad ass to have options, but just philosophizing..if that is a word...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well currently I have WP7 and Android dual-boot. The reason it's nice is because WP7 does have a couple games I like and just for the "fun change OS" factor. Practically speaking neither WM6.5 nor WP7 have anything really functionally better, but I miss playing "experiment 13" on WM6.5 and I also wanted to play with all of the new CHT goodies I see for fun. It's more of an enjoyment thing than any real practical need.
I dual boot between 6.5 and android.
6.5 for work when I need a solid data connection and a no nonsense browser (opera 9.7).
Android at home when I want to use the XDA app and look at pictures of cats hiding in shoes....
About 6.5 from SD.
I think it may take them some time as Wm as an OS is somewhat more awkward and tricky to tinker with than android. As far as porting it is concerned. That's what I read somewhere anyway....
Sent from my fingers to your face...
It would be great to have winmo on sd many of us could then go to nand Android having opportunity to boot winmo as alternative. For example I have my beloved gps soft on winmo...
I too think it would be great to boot Win Mo from SD. This would give poople the awsome ability to still use Win Mo after that have went NAND Andriod or WP7. I myself still use the stock Win Mo ROM as my daily and preferred OS cause it fits me better and my needs better. But if I was abale to boot Win Mo from SD I would give WP7 a try for a while. I like Andriod well enough but it is just not as functional to me plus I can running it from SD anytime I want so I see no reason to go NAND.
I do think it will take a good bet longer to achieve this ability though cause compared to Andriod Windows Mobile is a much larger OS and it is written with different code. But if anyone can do it is the Cottula and the rest of DFT.
I agree it would be nice. Actually having all the OS options on boot would be nice. Just was curious what people use in Wm that isn't available elsewhere. Cool!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
jsmccabe78 said:
I agree it would be nice. Actually having all the OS options on boot would be nice. Just was curious what people use in Wm that isn't available elsewhere. Cool!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer your queatuon it is really not that things in Win Mo are not avaliable in other OS'c but that so much comes built into Win Mo and for the functionality of it is more complete, atleast for me. Take things like internet sharingl/tethering and WiFi sharing. With Win Mo all you have to do is install the application and you are good. With Andriod you have to root the device for this and many more things. I like the full functionality of Micosoft Office compared to it on other mobile OS's. I like the feel of Win Mo too as it is more like a mobile PC or a extention of your home or office PC. Plus Win Mo is a true stand alone OS where as Andriod runs on top of Linux. Also to me Andriod feels more like a childs toy than a truly functional OS. Now I have not had but a limited amount of experience with WP7, but to me it is less functional than Andriod and more of a reversion to a some what dumb phone OS as it gives you limited capabilities and interface. That is just my opinion.
Would a sd build be with or without sense?
I agree it.Thank you for sharing, like very much
Very much down to whoever cooks the Roms. Once such a port is achieved anyone will be able to build roms so you'll get one of your choice.
If anyone can take care of this its cotulla and his crew!
Sent from my Nexus One
It is a long time which developers attracted to WP7 and android, and I've never attracted to new builds in this section.
of-course it was started for me when I've tried the first customized ROM with my HD2.
When I had Diamond, the Cooked ROM were better than the Original ones but on my HD2, the original ones are better and more stable.
Any comments?
any Idea?
please give me your opinions.
wrong section.
stock roms better than customs in HD2? you havent tried many then.. or at all.
I had diamond too and there were really good custom roms but that time there was NONE this big jump from stock to better usability.
try elegancia for example and you find really stable, fast, eye candy rom with great stuff in it.
My HD (Blackstone) was abandoned by HTC with windows 6.1 and Manilla 2.1... the amazing Devs of XDA made it a WM6.5 Sense super-machine. The HD2 (Leo) is still the best WM phone out there and microsoft themselves aren't pushing out anything much new... so the Dev's haven't got the same amount of raw material to work from to take the HD2 beyond stock (not within WM anyway).
And as the post above says, "wrong section"!
I think that Marketing drives development, because from free development You can get money with support or with custom dev.
On WM6.5 there is no more marketing around by Microsoft, at least since WP7 was commercialized.
It's just because of Windows Mobile is dying. You can't help it. No new things to port, to tweak and to achieve on our devices. Add to that Android and Windows Phone 7 working perfectly on HD2 and there is your answer.
But I have to admit that there are few heroes supporting Windows Mobile, like sir Sternas who is still improving his ROM with his own Software. I have to say that WM is very useful and capable OS, it's just no one is developing and creating for it no more. I found it troublesome to find one decent twitter client (except Peep of course) for WM, whereas on Android I just head to Market, type twitter and BAM, dozens of twitter clients, one better than other, appear. I love Sense and tried hard to use Windows Mobile (best OS to use just as a phone and basic internet browser), but if I wanted to something more than it's included in phone, it's almost impossible. You understand me?
What ROM is Sterna's?
Sternas rom is here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=612580
"Stop worrying about Windows Mobile. The name is changing. It's not a big deal. It isn't a dead platform. (At least not yet, anyway. )"
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11975316&postcount=1423
Cooked ROM on HD2
Check and search XDA for ROMs on my signature.
I agree, there have been no news for applications, I mean on the WM 6.5.5.
Developers, I believe, have given up developing apps for an already dead platform
nbee said:
"Stop worrying about Windows Mobile. The name is changing. It's not a big deal. It isn't a dead platform. (At least not yet, anyway. )"
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11975316&postcount=1423
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The page you reference clearly says that there will be no more phones with anything other than WP7. The other devices are specialized for a certain purpose, or are tablets / pads, etc. Not phones.
I love WM despite it's flaws, but I don't expect more applications. The people from which I have purchased WM software are only updating android.
nbee said:
"Stop worrying about Windows Mobile. The name is changing. It's not a big deal. It isn't a dead platform. (At least not yet, anyway. )"
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11975316&postcount=1423
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for quoting the info.
Many people are visiting here everyday. Windows Mobile is not dead. The cooked ROM is updated more frequent than the official stock ROM. It is still alive
As an application developer I loved Windows Mobile as it was a very capable platform (I have apps that I wrote for it that I couldn't have written for other mobile device) and the development tools (Visual Studio, SQL Server CE, etc) rock, so I'm not really happy or understand why WM is dying, but it seems it is. The question is what to replace it with. XDA Developers seems to jumped over to Android, and likely I try developing something for Android, but no doubt it will take some time before I find something I like better then Windows Mobile (I'm still writing apps for WM as its the platform I like to use myself and the ROMs here rock, for example I'm using the Energy HD2 ROM and can't find a reason to leave it, what does Android give me that Energy doesn't have?)
Android
DukeNukem said:
As an application developer I loved Windows Mobile as it was a very capable platform (I have apps that I wrote for it that I couldn't have written for other mobile device) and the development tools (Visual Studio, SQL Server CE, etc) rock, so I'm not really happy or understand why WM is dying, but it seems it is. The question is what to replace it with. XDA Developers seems to jumped over to Android, and likely I try developing something for Android, but no doubt it will take some time before I find something I like better then Windows Mobile (I'm still writing apps for WM as its the platform I like to use myself and the ROMs here rock, for example I'm using the Energy HD2 ROM and can't find a reason to leave it, what does Android give me that Energy doesn't have?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is the way to go. It has a brighter future that windows 7. It is becoming a very nice os. Windows 7 is a dead duck cant do anything with it.
What do you find in this ugly Android? Except the faster reaction comparing to WM.
It's even a problem to find a good dialer for Android.
Rest Windows Mobile rocks. Very flexible and customizable. Lot of dealers for your choice. Lot of other software.
I don't understand why people jump to some other system.
I better use WM7 then Android.
DuQ3r said:
What do you find in this ugly Android? Except the faster reaction comparing to WM.
It's even a problem to find a good dialer for Android.
Rest Windows Mobile rocks. Very flexible and customizable. Lot of dealers for your choice. Lot of other software.
I don't understand why people jump to some other system.
I better use WM7 then Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is better because the development is continuing (unlike Winmo).
You will know why is Android better if you use Android as native (in Android handset not in HD2)
Cheers..
silverwind said:
Android is better because the development is continuing (unlike Winmo).
You will know why is Android better if you use Android as native (in Android handset not in HD2)
Cheers..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on my experience with the LG G2X (I have two of them) android is a battery sucking nightmare that can't even download emails on a regular basis. Not to mention all the privacy concerns and ridiculous amounts of ads. It is useless as a business phone. It seems to be a toy OS for kids.
My HD2 with Elegancia by Steve runs flawlessly. If I want android toys and games a SD version works fine.
My wife wants to keep her G2X, but mine is going back because it is a piece of crap.
jcbofkc said:
Based on my experience with the LG G2X (I have two of them) android is a battery sucking nightmare that can't even download emails on a regular basis. Not to mention all the privacy concerns and ridiculous amounts of ads. It is useless as a business phone. It seems to be a toy OS for kids.
My HD2 with Elegancia by Steve runs flawlessly. If I want android toys and games a SD version works fine.
My wife wants to keep her G2X, but mine is going back because it is a piece of crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand about battery sucking in Android But it also happens with Iphone and BB
So, it doesnt mean Android is bad...
I think the development of Battery technology is far left behind from the development of the device and os..
The disadvantage is as you said about privacy and ads, I do agree with you
About WInmo, dont get me wrong, I still keep my HD2 and it runs smooth with Platinum Series (see my sig). Only that, you dont have market to play with. Windows Market is not interesting to me So, I rarely play with my HD2, instead I use it more with SD Android ...
Cheers...