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So, I've been spending the better part of an hour scouring over the Anandtech teardown gallery of the prime trying to get a decent understanding of the GPS/WiFi antennas and the underlying design flaws which contribute to these features messing up; namely the giant metal shield of a cover and the placement of the antennas. They're not exactly in a bad place, but I guess Asus assumed that if you were using WiFi/GPS with your tablet then you would always do so with the screen facing the AP/satellites. In reality, mine at least, it's the back of the device generally pointing to these things. Maybe I place my network hubs in strange places and enjoy astronomy apps too much?
Now on to the actual question, especially to any of you who have gotten the device and been brave enough to peek inside it yourself; would creating my own plastic windows/metal grates within the aluminum backing actually help anything? Do these antennas broadcast a 360 degree signal or are they directional? The motherboard itself would allow decent signal to get to the transmitter wouldn't it, so long as the case does?
My order isn't set to ship for another month, but I think I'll be getting this tablet regardless of the known issues, though the audio/video problems with the miniHDMI port make me a bit nervous. This thing will still be a power-house even as better spec'd tablets come out, just like my single-core Desire Z is still pretty relevant and decent. Just not top-of-the-line, and it wasn't for any real amount of time, but that's just how these things go.
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
tshoulihane said:
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coupling to the backplate, though increasing power decreases accuracy doesn't it?
I hadn't thought of the pogo-pins as a possible culprit, that's certainly possible.
Couldn't I make a couple windows and retro-fit either some plastic or plexi-glass into the design? Would that help keep from de-tuning, especially if kept to a small size with accurate positioning?
Thank you for the response, I know nothing of the finer details on GPS and other wireless signals.
*Edit: After re-reading and thinking, I actually understand what you're saying. Plastic or no, any cutout would need to be a very specific size larger than the antenna itself which would take more than I would be able to do I'm sure. Oh well, I know I'll still love this thing, so long as the miniHDMI works properly, I'll be happy. Phone's GPS works like a dream.
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
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Click to collapse
How sure are we about this? I've read that Apple puts their WiFi antenna behind the black plastic logo on their WiFi-only models for exactly this reason. Not only that, but on the 3g models they simply have all the wireless modules placed on top of the device where they are covered with black plastic as well.
It seems to me that a stupid plastic apple cutout - a complex geometric shape - is not likely capable of being as "tuned" as a rectangular cutout. Yet, I think it's safe to say that the 3G and WiFi versions of the iPad have similar if not identical WiFi performance. That is to say, I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty. I think it's safe to hack away at.
Thoughts?
JazzMac251 said:
I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty.
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Maybe for some heat dispersion too?
I wish they would start selling the back plate only (like they do with ipods etc)
That way i'm sure someone could cutout a shape and try the antenna behind a plastic window etc, but youd always have the option to put the original back.
I wouldnt mind modding mine after the garantee has ran out.
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Docaroo said:
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
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Click to collapse
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
JazzMac251 said:
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
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Click to collapse
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Yakandu said:
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be, but it's still a good two-four weeks before I have mine. All mentions of it I've seen in general never get answered, I haven't seen anyone comment on whether or not they've tried without the backing. Probably because most aren't willing to try and heat up the glue to do so or damage the thing in the process...
Some expertise required
Does the aluminium back plate attenuate both wifi and gps signals? From what I have read it seems to be confirmed that this is the situation, although other factors such as internal interference have NOT been discounted, nor has the connection method (gold pogo pin) between motherboard and the antennae (blackened out pcb strip). I have noted on the TF101 Transformer teardown, a very similar placement of both WIFI and GPS antennae to that on the TF201 Transformer Prime - near the top edge and adjacent each other. Looking at similarities between models, an obvious and perhaps too simple explination would be the aluminium back plate. There does seem to be some interest in experimenting with making some holes (similar to the speaker grill), on the back plate in front of the antennae in the hope that it MAY improve reception. I have read numerous posts and was hoping that someone may have tried this. I don't want to hear about the merits of having or not having a GPS and how it matters to them personaly etc - lets focus people, but whether someone has had the ability and knowledge to try it. I am unsure given the wavelength of both GPS and WIFI (1.2 / 1.5 Ghz) whether mutliple small holes would do it. I feel that a transparent plastic window may be required. I do not believe the back plate is used a coupled ground plate etc. and it is used purely as the chasis. Come on - there has to be some smart engineering graduates/professionals who are willing to give this a go...it would have been nice if they were paid by ASUS but that seems unlikely. Point to note - that the GPS and WIFI antennas (there are two for the WIFI on the TF201) would be obtaining some reception through the front gorilla glass and plastic (on which the antennae are mounted). My question is - what and IF modifications are necessary to the back plate to obtain better reception. Any ideas?
I have not seen a single test where anyone proved it was the back plate. Anyone have a link to a test that shows the prime navigating successfully without the back plate?
This last weekend I was fustrated while vacationing when my Prime could not hold onto the hotel WiFi connection because of the distance to the router, yet my HD2 phone had no problems. This was the first time poor Wifi affected me. That got me thinking....
Looking at the fix made to the T700 to improve Wifi signal (and GPS), why couldn't a similar DIY mod be done to an existing Prime's back? I dont think cutting a slice off the top of the aluminum back is a doable option, but what about just cutting or drilling a large hole over the antennas, and filling in the hole with plastic or epoxy. This could look similar to the black oval plastic "wifi window" on the 3rd generation iPod Touch.
I'm thinking of trying this but wanted some input from others before trying. I looked at the other hardware mod thread here, but that concentrated on adding external antennas. According to that thread, once you removed the back, Wifi improved dramatically.
I think this was discussed before..but if you are feeling brave enough, let us know how it turns out man
This idea has been talked about in great length, but general consensus was that it would be too difficult to add a plastic window to the back of the Prime, because all of the hardware physically attaches to the aluminum back plate of the Prime.
You you be voiding your warranty by taking the device apart. And there is a very good chance you would render the device 100% non-working while doing the mod.
If the WiFi really doesn't meet your needs, return the tablet.
I'm glad I sent mine in to get it fixed, I am getting mine back tomorrow and that will make 10 days. I figured they would be pretty quick at fixing the wifi by now
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
almightywhacko said:
If the WiFi really doesn't meet your needs, return the tablet.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is not an option for a second hand Prime with an unlocked bootloader.
I'll have to take another look at the tear down pictures and video to get a feel of the space between the electronics connected to the back and the back itself. I have no fear of eventually opening up my Prime as I have opened up many phones in the past.
I had the same problem while on vacation in Mexico, my HTC Eco 3d picked up the hotels wifi no problem but my Asus didn't. I'm so happy I picked up a Asus WL-330N3G portable wifi router based on someone suggestion here, I wouldn't been able to work without.
Basically placed the portable router where I had the strongest signal in the room, and was able to use my prime anywhere in the room. An on top of it the router is very small, and can be powered by a USB port as well. As a bonus I use it as a gaming adapter for my ps3 when I'm home.
I think getting a portable router is a lot easier option then modding the back of the Prime.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Axe-08 said:
I'm glad I sent mine in to get it fixed, I am getting mine back tomorrow and that will make 10 days. I figured they would be pretty quick at fixing the wifi by now
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Make a thread tomorrow when you get it back. And tell US if it improved.
Seriously .
ive said this before but could another idea be wait for the 700 to come out and then wait for some inner photos to be taken. If they look similar to the prime then could we not just try and buy a 700 backplate and try and fix it to the prime?
mardukeme said:
I. I'm so happy I picked up a Asus WL-330N3G portable wifi router based on someone suggestion here, I wouldn't been able to work without.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get it from? My wifi signal in my bedroom is terrible and moving the router doesn't seem to be an option
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
What about drilling small holes in the area where the wifi antenna is, creating a sort of a mesh? Could be very easily done with a drill with a small enough head by very carefully and slowly drilling into the aluminum.
I don't know if that would improve the wifi signal, but it is doable.
Might want to consider one thing though- People have been getting different wifi and GPS readings on unmodded primes, meaning that the problem is not necessarily the aluminum cover, but rather the quality of construction, components, etc.
Eliad Kimhy said:
What about drilling small holes in the area where the wifi antenna is, creating a sort of a mesh? Could be very easily done with a drill with a small enough head by very carefully and slowly drilling into the aluminum.
I don't know if that would improve the wifi signal, but it is doable.
Might want to consider one thing though- People have been getting different wifi and GPS readings on unmodded primes, meaning that the problem is not necessarily the aluminum cover, but rather the quality of construction, components, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, Faradays law says this will not work, for RF, mesh or solid is the same.
The contact area of the pingions on the motherboard to the antenna are realy tiny,I think replacing the pingions on the mainboard for small coax will improve, The wifi chip is at the other end of the tablet, the signals have to cross the entire device. I even saw they route the wifi signal trough a series of PCB trace and cables to the place where they connect to the antenna. I think replacing these connections by new a cable with at one end an MMCX and the other end solderd to the antenna, will improve the reception.
otispowell said:
Where did you get it from? My wifi signal in my bedroom is terrible and moving the router doesn't seem to be an option
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
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Click to collapse
I got it on eBay for $50 dollars here's a link to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-WL-330...345650?pt=COMP_EN_Routers&hash=item1c21fd7f72
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
The other thread linked in the original post has all information regarding this topic.
Creating something like the 700 would be basically too complicated (though never impossible)
We won't know if the 700 back plate will match up until it is released (i doubt it is worth the work)
The external antenna works wonders, and can be made "removable"
A simple wire from the pogo pin that is isolated from the glass/aluminum will increase connectivity
Here is another link for good reading...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1479664
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I've read through both of those threads, the one I posted and the second one posted above. Unfortunately they both went the route of replacing the existing antennas with wires or external connections. The closest one to my idea was this:
Originally Posted by Lock-N-Load
Really though, in the end, it seems if someone wanted to get really hardcore, they could dremel a slice out of the back that is tall yet narrow, go to home depot and get some plexiglass, sand it down to obscure the view into the device, and epoxy that in place and place the wire into that as a window. Totally possible IF you wanted to kick it up a few levels now that the hard work is done and shows an antenna wire can hep. Essentially steal Apples' idea but keep it simple and make it home grown.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, slicing off the top of the back and covering it with plexiglass is probably too much. I'm thinking more like just a hole, over the existing antennas, covering it with epoxy, and making a Wifi Window like that on an iPod Touch:
mardukeme said:
I got it on eBay for $50 dollars here's a link to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-WL-330...345650?pt=COMP_EN_Routers&hash=item1c21fd7f72
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks =]
are there any other items that work the same but are cheaper?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
nonpaq said:
This last weekend I was fustrated while vacationing when my Prime could not hold onto the hotel WiFi connection because of the distance to the router, yet my HD2 phone had no problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why didnt you just tether to your HD2?
i just had a great idea. Based off what the linked thread was earlier,
It would be a handle on both sides, makes your TFP like a briefcase and eliminate the ugly/bulky antennas. Of course it won't be as powerful, but this would let us put antennas in the handle and increase reception. of course, it would require holes to be drilled in the back, but we can easily stick that on (and it would be very strong). It can be easily created with fiberglass, a color could easily be created and the brush strokes could be done as well. and a little gloss could be added after we have painted/added the brush strokes and get pretty close
biggem001 said:
i just had a great idea. Based off what the linked thread was earlier,
It would be a handle on both sides, makes your TFP like a briefcase and eliminate the ugly/bulky antennas. Of course it won't be as powerful, but this would let us put antennas in the handle and increase reception. of course, it would require holes to be drilled in the back, but we can easily stick that on (and it would be very strong). It can be easily created with fiberglass, a color could easily be created and the brush strokes could be done as well. and a little gloss could be added after we have painted/added the brush strokes and get pretty close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice design The handle is a great idea. All you need to do is run some wires through the handle. That is all my WIFI attached antenna are doing in my "Optimus Prime" mod. As long as you get the wires away and above the metal backplate your in business. You can check out my link in thread for the original mod. GL m8
Here is pic of two wires coming from WIFI pogo pins. Raised out and above
the metal backplate. All you would need to do is run wires through a nice handle and you will get amazing wifi or GPS.
willumpie82 said:
I'm sorry, Faradays law says this will not work, for RF, mesh or solid is the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read on this forum that some (or one) devices (not the TFP obviously) have their wifi antenna located behind the speaker grill in order to allow proper wifi reception.
Hey, can someone say me, where i could find the w-lan Aerial at my HTC Titan?
Greetings
Avelnal said:
Hey, can someone say me, where i could find the w-lan Aerial at my HTC Titan?
Greetings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?!
Do you mean the Wifi Antenna?
Tachi91 said:
What?!
Do you mean the Wifi Antenna?
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Click to collapse
yes
Am pretty sure it is the two contacts at the top of the phone under the battey cover, If you are having problems make sure the contacts on the handset are prominent enough to make a good connection with the rear casing, Be careful not to snap them if they need bending etc.
AndyFZ1S said:
Am pretty sure it is the two contacts at the top of the phone under the battey cover, If you are having problems make sure the contacts on the handset are prominent enough to make a good connection with the rear casing, Be careful not to snap them if they need bending etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank You, I am trying it
Wifi/Bluetooth antennas tend to be at the top or the sides of a phone. With the actual cellular antenna being at the bottom.
FCC requires all mobile phones to have the cellular antenna farthest from the users head (health concerns). LTE being the strange exception mostly being near the top or the side.
Hello everyone i just bought htc amaze last week and i saw that there is a network problem with a lot of people and i heard about the aluminum foil trick so i said what the hell let`s give it a try it worked 200% and the funny thing is it also improve my WiFi strength so that is how i did it.
Tried, doesn't work. No improvement seen.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
It does work (sometimes)
Petronoid said:
Tried, doesn't work. No improvement seen.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Putting aluminum foil on your back plate where the WiFi sensor is, is supposed to boost WiFi signal strength. I did a science project on it once, it actually worked. When you do it you need to make sure that the foil isn't crinkled or anything. It depends on everyone's phone, some get little to no improvement in signal.
I tested it again and it really improve the signal.
SuperAfnan said:
Putting aluminum foil on your back plate where the WiFi sensor is, is supposed to boost WiFi signal strength. I did a science project on it once, it actually worked. When you do it you need to make sure that the foil isn't crinkled or anything. It depends on everyone's phone, some get little to no improvement in signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't the WiFi antenna on the other side of the camera, though?
Maybe this will help
sam_conrad said:
Isn't the WiFi antenna on the other side of the camera, though?
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Click to collapse
According to this thread, someone put the foil on the contact on the left of the camera piece and said they had significant improvements in WiFI signal.
We can infer that the WiFi chip is built into the back, and not the motherboard if WiFI doesn't work when the back is taken off. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
The foil is supposed to reflect the signal onto the contact piece, or motherboard. It doesn't really matter where the foil is as long as the trajectory leads to the actual wireless chip.
As Superafnan said, it improves Wifi signal, but you have to go the link which Superafnan mentioned.
You can't put the foil where you put in pictures. You should cover Wifi antenna
Off topic, if you cover your phone with the aluminum foil completely, you will lose operator's antenna
Good for fooling friends. You can tell them you were unreachable
antenna foil
antenna's in the back cover, thus loss of reception in removing it.
foil between the cover and phone body would either reflect signal to the antenna, or reflect it away, depending on the direction the antenna faces relative to the signal.
or cover your camera, or short the heck out of your phone or battery, depending where you put it.
How to Boost WiFi Signal with Aluminum Foil?
You could easily get better signals from your old router to your laptop using this life hack.
The steps are:
1. Find some Aluminum foil.
2. Find a small box (your router’s box will do the job).
3. Stick the foil on the surface of the box.
4. Create holes on the box to put the antenna in.
5. Put the box cover with aluminum foil onto the antenna.
Sorry for the bad English. I've improved the strength of the GPS signal.
I've added the CU foil to contact GPS
Nice work :good: but a tutorial explaining or a video should make others (like me ) understand better i think
Sent from my LG-D620fr [everyday is a new day]
Nice work! can we do this with wifi too?
I have no problem with wifi
SkyLK said:
I have no problem with wifi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i mean to make something like a more powerful antenna for the wifi to improve range and wifi speed
Step by step
So if I understand this correctly:
You opened up the phone using step 3+4 of the ifixit guide (I can't post a link because I don't have enough posts).
Added a little piece of paper to the plastic shell which should push down on the radio giving it a better connection to the logic board.
Soldered on some copper foil to the GPS antenna to extend range.
You then put the inner plastic shell back on and threaded the CU foil through the black plastic radio cover.
Please let me know if I missed a step or have some thing wrong before I try this myself.
Thanks!
YozMan said:
So if I understand this correctly:
You opened up the phone using step 3+4 of the ifixit guide (I can't post a link because I don't have enough posts).
Added a little piece of paper to the plastic shell which should push down on the radio giving it a better connection to the logic board.
Soldered on some copper foil to the GPS antenna to extend range.
You then put the inner plastic shell back on and threaded the CU foil through the black plastic radio cover.
Please let me know if I missed a step or have some thing wrong before I try this myself.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. it is so
it will be better if you post before and after signal improvements pic
but oh well, good job
haris182 said:
it will be better if you post before and after signal improvements pic
but oh well, good job
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and what about wifi drops? any suggestions to address that by any chance?
Thank you very much really run
Enviado desde mi LG-D620 mediante Tapatalk
I used the aluminium cover of a yogurt... And it works Thanks a lot
I bought Cu foil, very nice quality and use it, about 7cm x 0,5cm, but not much help. I notice better signal when i use foil large as much as my phone. If the foil is small, no visible improvement. How much Al from yogurt did you use?
I used aluminium foil and signal is little bit better. GPS in phone is finally usable for navigation.
But I must say, with that "big antena" I expected bigger improvement in signal.
ervejs said:
I used aluminium foil and signal is little bit better. GPS in phone is finally usable for navigation.
But I must say, with that "big antena" I expected bigger improvement in signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also used aluminum foil and it just gives a little boost to GPS signal, will try what ivica122 said and use a larger foil and see if it will give better result
Gps fix
Can somebody post screen before and after that mod? My gps lost signal sometimes when are far from car window.
Please, can someone make a video on how to fix GPS signal ? I really need it but i didn't understand what to do
simo14 said:
Please, can someone make a video on how to fix GPS signal ? I really need it but i didn't understand what to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a bit dangerous.
If you don't understand it, you shouldn't do it.
And remember, if you do it, you are responsible for any damage, no one else.
Sent from my LG G2 Mini using XDA Labs
i used aluminium foil without add the paper piece and the gps signal improve a lot
Nice, I would like to try it
I soldered a copper strand to the antenna to basically increase the size of the antenna.
Worked for me way better than this solution, but thank you for giving me the idea to fix the bad gps signal.