So, I've been spending the better part of an hour scouring over the Anandtech teardown gallery of the prime trying to get a decent understanding of the GPS/WiFi antennas and the underlying design flaws which contribute to these features messing up; namely the giant metal shield of a cover and the placement of the antennas. They're not exactly in a bad place, but I guess Asus assumed that if you were using WiFi/GPS with your tablet then you would always do so with the screen facing the AP/satellites. In reality, mine at least, it's the back of the device generally pointing to these things. Maybe I place my network hubs in strange places and enjoy astronomy apps too much?
Now on to the actual question, especially to any of you who have gotten the device and been brave enough to peek inside it yourself; would creating my own plastic windows/metal grates within the aluminum backing actually help anything? Do these antennas broadcast a 360 degree signal or are they directional? The motherboard itself would allow decent signal to get to the transmitter wouldn't it, so long as the case does?
My order isn't set to ship for another month, but I think I'll be getting this tablet regardless of the known issues, though the audio/video problems with the miniHDMI port make me a bit nervous. This thing will still be a power-house even as better spec'd tablets come out, just like my single-core Desire Z is still pretty relevant and decent. Just not top-of-the-line, and it wasn't for any real amount of time, but that's just how these things go.
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
tshoulihane said:
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coupling to the backplate, though increasing power decreases accuracy doesn't it?
I hadn't thought of the pogo-pins as a possible culprit, that's certainly possible.
Couldn't I make a couple windows and retro-fit either some plastic or plexi-glass into the design? Would that help keep from de-tuning, especially if kept to a small size with accurate positioning?
Thank you for the response, I know nothing of the finer details on GPS and other wireless signals.
*Edit: After re-reading and thinking, I actually understand what you're saying. Plastic or no, any cutout would need to be a very specific size larger than the antenna itself which would take more than I would be able to do I'm sure. Oh well, I know I'll still love this thing, so long as the miniHDMI works properly, I'll be happy. Phone's GPS works like a dream.
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How sure are we about this? I've read that Apple puts their WiFi antenna behind the black plastic logo on their WiFi-only models for exactly this reason. Not only that, but on the 3g models they simply have all the wireless modules placed on top of the device where they are covered with black plastic as well.
It seems to me that a stupid plastic apple cutout - a complex geometric shape - is not likely capable of being as "tuned" as a rectangular cutout. Yet, I think it's safe to say that the 3G and WiFi versions of the iPad have similar if not identical WiFi performance. That is to say, I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty. I think it's safe to hack away at.
Thoughts?
JazzMac251 said:
I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty.
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Click to collapse
Maybe for some heat dispersion too?
I wish they would start selling the back plate only (like they do with ipods etc)
That way i'm sure someone could cutout a shape and try the antenna behind a plastic window etc, but youd always have the option to put the original back.
I wouldnt mind modding mine after the garantee has ran out.
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Docaroo said:
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
JazzMac251 said:
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Yakandu said:
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be, but it's still a good two-four weeks before I have mine. All mentions of it I've seen in general never get answered, I haven't seen anyone comment on whether or not they've tried without the backing. Probably because most aren't willing to try and heat up the glue to do so or damage the thing in the process...
Some expertise required
Does the aluminium back plate attenuate both wifi and gps signals? From what I have read it seems to be confirmed that this is the situation, although other factors such as internal interference have NOT been discounted, nor has the connection method (gold pogo pin) between motherboard and the antennae (blackened out pcb strip). I have noted on the TF101 Transformer teardown, a very similar placement of both WIFI and GPS antennae to that on the TF201 Transformer Prime - near the top edge and adjacent each other. Looking at similarities between models, an obvious and perhaps too simple explination would be the aluminium back plate. There does seem to be some interest in experimenting with making some holes (similar to the speaker grill), on the back plate in front of the antennae in the hope that it MAY improve reception. I have read numerous posts and was hoping that someone may have tried this. I don't want to hear about the merits of having or not having a GPS and how it matters to them personaly etc - lets focus people, but whether someone has had the ability and knowledge to try it. I am unsure given the wavelength of both GPS and WIFI (1.2 / 1.5 Ghz) whether mutliple small holes would do it. I feel that a transparent plastic window may be required. I do not believe the back plate is used a coupled ground plate etc. and it is used purely as the chasis. Come on - there has to be some smart engineering graduates/professionals who are willing to give this a go...it would have been nice if they were paid by ASUS but that seems unlikely. Point to note - that the GPS and WIFI antennas (there are two for the WIFI on the TF201) would be obtaining some reception through the front gorilla glass and plastic (on which the antennae are mounted). My question is - what and IF modifications are necessary to the back plate to obtain better reception. Any ideas?
I have not seen a single test where anyone proved it was the back plate. Anyone have a link to a test that shows the prime navigating successfully without the back plate?
Related
Since it's the aluminum back that's supposedly blocking the signal, one could theoretically cutout or punch some small holes over the wireless device akin to the speaker port. Then since the back is so easily stretchable, get a protective skin and put it over top.
Thoughts?
Erusman removed the back of his Prime and then installed antennae that go through the back in order to improve WiFi and GPS performance. However most people haven't found any value with the idea of cutting up the back of their Prime since there is no guarantee that WiFi will improve by a significant amount, however it is 100% guaranteed that cutting a hole in the back of the Prime will void your warranty.
There are plenty of Prime's out there that have pretty good WiFi performance. My Prime's WiFi is nearly as good as my Windows laptop and more than good enough for everything I would ever need to do on my tablet.
If your WiFi isn't working well enough to meet your needs, return or exchange your Prime for one that is working better.
I've had 2 prime side to side and one gets better speed than the other connected to the same router and test ran separately. So IMO there's either faulty hardware or bad connection. Have you tried getting an exchange?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
At last some real info in a sea of misinformation.
The only thing which will fix this and the gps issue is a good window with a non-conductive cover, or maybe a plug-in or screw-in antenna.
I am sure, though, that some of the preproduction models had some hardware issues relating to antennas, as well as the oft quoted "metal back" issue.
I, too am finding the WiFi performance acceptable, and the sheer flexibility and neatness of the rest of the UK package (tab +dock) has made me a firm fan of the ATP.
Shame about the GPS, though, as there are many google and Android apps which work with phones and GPS which could translate productively to the Prime.
FG (confirmed fan)
Ok thanks for the insight everyone. I now believe my original concept wouldn't work.
I'm curious if there's has been any confirmation of an improved signal by simply removing the back. Someone had said it could be as much a hardware issue as it is the back design.
My wifi is acceptable, it's about the same as it is on my Nexus One which I'd feel bad complaining about. Though it's not as good as my Macbook.
I was just trying to brainstorm some possible solutions. Maybe I'll look into the antennea.
Felisek said:
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the plastic apple on the back of the ipad where the wifi is mounted is a gimmick? I find that a little hard to believe.
no, the apple cut out is big enough to let some RF through.
compact antennas and some serious amplification will do the rest. Look at the size of some of the antenna modules in other threads to see how small they are.
In fact look at how small the ipad antenna which is stuck behind the apple logo is.
the poster was right that a few small holes in a grounded plate would not let through enough juice to work.
That would amount to a Farady cage, which is used to screen RF signals, not let them through.
FG
Hi,
this morning someone sent me a link from Tom's Hardware about this tablet. The articles mentions that some people have modded their case to improve GPS signals.
I wonder why Asus don't revise this product to address this issue.
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
You DONT even have to do all that anymore. Asus is offering free GPS dongles to people who purchase a prime. Offer ends in July. Just take a look in my GPS dongle test thread. Then take a look at the link in my signature THST says positive transformer thread.
Prime is a great device. Get one asap
Well first of all, I find it hard to believe that the aluminum case is causing 100% of the problem. Because, if it were then like you said, why not just change the design of the backplate? My guess is that simply adding a plastic strip to the top of the backplate would not improve GPS performance that much. And personally I think the plastic strip look is ugly as hell. What they could have done is kept the all aluminum finish and just relocated the antenna to behind a speaker grill, which is similar to what other devices with metal casings have done. I am sure the GPS still wouldn't be 'professional grade' but it would at least be better than what we currently have.
Either way, the whole GPS problem was something that was obviously not 'caught' until really late in the production process. If it were caught earlier, I am sure something more pro-active would have been done about it. But by the time they found out, they were in too deep to make a hardware change as they were most likely already in mass production. The early regions of where the device was released they had already advertised the thing as having GPS, both on the box and on the official spec sheets. Then when it was released these people found out that GPS was virtually non-functional and ASUS had to quickly back track and pull GPS as a feature from the spec list. My guess is their lawyers told them they need to do something to avoid a class action law suit and any further bad press around this whole situation. So their options were:
1) Recall the device and then modify the hardware in some way to fix the GPS problem (whether that be done via a newly designed back pate or whatever). And then any new ones produced would obviously have this hardware change incorporated as well.
2) Offer a free addon that improves GPS performance.
As we now know, they went with option 2, which I am sure was also the cheaper route. Also, option 1 would imply an admission of guilt in that they messed up. The GPS dongle option allows them to say: "Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience".
Honestly I do not care about GPS in a tablet and I will probably only ever use my dongle a select few times in the entire span that I own and use the Prime. I do think it is good that ASUS is doing something about it though. Other companies may very well have just brushed this thing under the rug and moved on with life (which is what I assumed ASUS has been doing until we found out about the GPS dongle).
jordache16 said:
Well first of all, I find it hard to believe that the aluminum case is causing 100% of the problem. Because, if it were then like you said, why not just change the design of the backplate? My guess is that simply adding a plastic strip to the top of the backplate would not improve GPS performance that much. And personally I think the plastic strip look is ugly as hell. What they could have done is kept the all aluminum finish and just relocated the antenna to behind a speaker grill, which is similar to what other devices with metal casings have done. I am sure the GPS still wouldn't be 'professional grade' but it would at least be better than what we currently have.
Either way, the whole GPS problem was something that was obviously not 'caught' until really late in the production process. If it were caught earlier, I am sure something more pro-active would have been done about it. But by the time they found out, they were in too deep to make a hardware change as they were most likely already in mass production. The early regions of where the device was released they had already advertised the thing as having GPS, both on the box and on the official spec sheets. Then when it was released these people found out that GPS was virtually non-functional and ASUS had to quickly back track and pull GPS as a feature from the spec list. My guess is their lawyers told them they need to do something to avoid a class action law suit and any further bad press around this whole situation. So their options were:
1) Recall the device and then modify the hardware in some way to fix the GPS problem (whether that be done via a newly designed back pate or whatever). And then any new ones produced would obviously have this hardware change incorporated as well.
2) Offer a free addon that improves GPS performance.
As we now know, they went with option 2, which I am sure was also the cheaper route. Also, option 1 would imply an admission of guilt in that they messed up. The GPS dongle option allows them to say: "Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience".
Honestly I do not care about GPS in a tablet and I will probably only ever use my dongle a select few times in the entire span that I own and use the Prime. I do think it is good that ASUS is doing something about it though. Other companies may very well have just brushed this thing under the rug and moved on with life (which is what I assumed ASUS has been doing until we found out about the GPS dongle).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1...although the solution of a GPS dongle really kills the idea of a TRANSFORMER prime...cant use it with the keyboard dock, and its not as flush and they said it is..you wont be able to use majority of the leather cases and etc when you are using the dongle
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
kwazytazz said:
+1...although the solution of a GPS dongle really kills the idea of a TRANSFORMER prime...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really - now it can TRANSFORM into a 'professional grade' GPS device! ;-)
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
jordache16 said:
why not just change the design of the backplate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are, for the 300 and 700 series, back to plastic where the radios are going. iPad tried behind the speaker grille and it still has issues. Its better than nothing but def not perfect.
Yes, the black strip doesnt always look as appealing, however you could cover it with a case or carbon fiber sticker or whatever, i'd much rather go for plastic strip over no radio reception.
And also yes, the interference can definately be 10000% caused by the metalic back plate. Both by blocking the signal and RF noise. Everything pretty much is grounded to the metal back and it, in turn, has a lot of RF noise associated with it. If i attach a lead to the gps or wifi contact inside the tablet and have the wire run outside the tab i get excellent reception. Once that wire goes within about an inch of the tablet the signal drops dramatically. Even if the access point is on the proper side of the tablet so its not blocking the signal.
Asus knows how to make killer electronics. they did an amazing job on the prime, however the demand caught them off guard. They tried to do something different with the metalic design and got caught with their pants down. They will get it right eventually and in the mean time we are at least getting SOMETHING (free dongle for gps, why not?)
The prime is a great tablet, awesome for watching movies, playing games, browsing the internet. ya, the wifi is not that great, i look forward to mods for using the dongle for wifi instead of GPS, but in the mean time this is the best we got, and its good enough. When the 700 comes out i may sell my prime for that but i got money in my pocket. if your on a budget, buy the TF101, its still better than any other tablet (aside from the 201 IMO), or wait for the 300 series which will still be a cost efficent tablet.
Asus is doing their best to remedy this situation. They are a big company and big machines move slow. Considering their track record i will still continue buying their products. I have been impressed overall by the prime, and the 101 before it, and look forward to the 700 when it comes out. Continue doing your research and determine what is going to be important for you (and if you do go Prime make damn sure to test it every way you can before accepting it).
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me.
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SoTacMatt said:
Same here.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
texstar said:
Same for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here..lmao
my wifi been been performing great where ever i go. whether at home, traveling and tethering, or some where else and hooking up to another public or private network.
The worst problem with the prime is the constant freezes it has...
It`s frustrating.
Tried all the browsers people recommend and the problem persists.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA
This last weekend I was fustrated while vacationing when my Prime could not hold onto the hotel WiFi connection because of the distance to the router, yet my HD2 phone had no problems. This was the first time poor Wifi affected me. That got me thinking....
Looking at the fix made to the T700 to improve Wifi signal (and GPS), why couldn't a similar DIY mod be done to an existing Prime's back? I dont think cutting a slice off the top of the aluminum back is a doable option, but what about just cutting or drilling a large hole over the antennas, and filling in the hole with plastic or epoxy. This could look similar to the black oval plastic "wifi window" on the 3rd generation iPod Touch.
I'm thinking of trying this but wanted some input from others before trying. I looked at the other hardware mod thread here, but that concentrated on adding external antennas. According to that thread, once you removed the back, Wifi improved dramatically.
I think this was discussed before..but if you are feeling brave enough, let us know how it turns out man
This idea has been talked about in great length, but general consensus was that it would be too difficult to add a plastic window to the back of the Prime, because all of the hardware physically attaches to the aluminum back plate of the Prime.
You you be voiding your warranty by taking the device apart. And there is a very good chance you would render the device 100% non-working while doing the mod.
If the WiFi really doesn't meet your needs, return the tablet.
I'm glad I sent mine in to get it fixed, I am getting mine back tomorrow and that will make 10 days. I figured they would be pretty quick at fixing the wifi by now
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
almightywhacko said:
If the WiFi really doesn't meet your needs, return the tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is not an option for a second hand Prime with an unlocked bootloader.
I'll have to take another look at the tear down pictures and video to get a feel of the space between the electronics connected to the back and the back itself. I have no fear of eventually opening up my Prime as I have opened up many phones in the past.
I had the same problem while on vacation in Mexico, my HTC Eco 3d picked up the hotels wifi no problem but my Asus didn't. I'm so happy I picked up a Asus WL-330N3G portable wifi router based on someone suggestion here, I wouldn't been able to work without.
Basically placed the portable router where I had the strongest signal in the room, and was able to use my prime anywhere in the room. An on top of it the router is very small, and can be powered by a USB port as well. As a bonus I use it as a gaming adapter for my ps3 when I'm home.
I think getting a portable router is a lot easier option then modding the back of the Prime.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Axe-08 said:
I'm glad I sent mine in to get it fixed, I am getting mine back tomorrow and that will make 10 days. I figured they would be pretty quick at fixing the wifi by now
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Make a thread tomorrow when you get it back. And tell US if it improved.
Seriously .
ive said this before but could another idea be wait for the 700 to come out and then wait for some inner photos to be taken. If they look similar to the prime then could we not just try and buy a 700 backplate and try and fix it to the prime?
mardukeme said:
I. I'm so happy I picked up a Asus WL-330N3G portable wifi router based on someone suggestion here, I wouldn't been able to work without.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get it from? My wifi signal in my bedroom is terrible and moving the router doesn't seem to be an option
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
What about drilling small holes in the area where the wifi antenna is, creating a sort of a mesh? Could be very easily done with a drill with a small enough head by very carefully and slowly drilling into the aluminum.
I don't know if that would improve the wifi signal, but it is doable.
Might want to consider one thing though- People have been getting different wifi and GPS readings on unmodded primes, meaning that the problem is not necessarily the aluminum cover, but rather the quality of construction, components, etc.
Eliad Kimhy said:
What about drilling small holes in the area where the wifi antenna is, creating a sort of a mesh? Could be very easily done with a drill with a small enough head by very carefully and slowly drilling into the aluminum.
I don't know if that would improve the wifi signal, but it is doable.
Might want to consider one thing though- People have been getting different wifi and GPS readings on unmodded primes, meaning that the problem is not necessarily the aluminum cover, but rather the quality of construction, components, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, Faradays law says this will not work, for RF, mesh or solid is the same.
The contact area of the pingions on the motherboard to the antenna are realy tiny,I think replacing the pingions on the mainboard for small coax will improve, The wifi chip is at the other end of the tablet, the signals have to cross the entire device. I even saw they route the wifi signal trough a series of PCB trace and cables to the place where they connect to the antenna. I think replacing these connections by new a cable with at one end an MMCX and the other end solderd to the antenna, will improve the reception.
otispowell said:
Where did you get it from? My wifi signal in my bedroom is terrible and moving the router doesn't seem to be an option
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got it on eBay for $50 dollars here's a link to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-WL-330...345650?pt=COMP_EN_Routers&hash=item1c21fd7f72
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
The other thread linked in the original post has all information regarding this topic.
Creating something like the 700 would be basically too complicated (though never impossible)
We won't know if the 700 back plate will match up until it is released (i doubt it is worth the work)
The external antenna works wonders, and can be made "removable"
A simple wire from the pogo pin that is isolated from the glass/aluminum will increase connectivity
Here is another link for good reading...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1479664
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I've read through both of those threads, the one I posted and the second one posted above. Unfortunately they both went the route of replacing the existing antennas with wires or external connections. The closest one to my idea was this:
Originally Posted by Lock-N-Load
Really though, in the end, it seems if someone wanted to get really hardcore, they could dremel a slice out of the back that is tall yet narrow, go to home depot and get some plexiglass, sand it down to obscure the view into the device, and epoxy that in place and place the wire into that as a window. Totally possible IF you wanted to kick it up a few levels now that the hard work is done and shows an antenna wire can hep. Essentially steal Apples' idea but keep it simple and make it home grown.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, slicing off the top of the back and covering it with plexiglass is probably too much. I'm thinking more like just a hole, over the existing antennas, covering it with epoxy, and making a Wifi Window like that on an iPod Touch:
mardukeme said:
I got it on eBay for $50 dollars here's a link to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-WL-330...345650?pt=COMP_EN_Routers&hash=item1c21fd7f72
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks =]
are there any other items that work the same but are cheaper?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
nonpaq said:
This last weekend I was fustrated while vacationing when my Prime could not hold onto the hotel WiFi connection because of the distance to the router, yet my HD2 phone had no problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why didnt you just tether to your HD2?
i just had a great idea. Based off what the linked thread was earlier,
It would be a handle on both sides, makes your TFP like a briefcase and eliminate the ugly/bulky antennas. Of course it won't be as powerful, but this would let us put antennas in the handle and increase reception. of course, it would require holes to be drilled in the back, but we can easily stick that on (and it would be very strong). It can be easily created with fiberglass, a color could easily be created and the brush strokes could be done as well. and a little gloss could be added after we have painted/added the brush strokes and get pretty close
biggem001 said:
i just had a great idea. Based off what the linked thread was earlier,
It would be a handle on both sides, makes your TFP like a briefcase and eliminate the ugly/bulky antennas. Of course it won't be as powerful, but this would let us put antennas in the handle and increase reception. of course, it would require holes to be drilled in the back, but we can easily stick that on (and it would be very strong). It can be easily created with fiberglass, a color could easily be created and the brush strokes could be done as well. and a little gloss could be added after we have painted/added the brush strokes and get pretty close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice design The handle is a great idea. All you need to do is run some wires through the handle. That is all my WIFI attached antenna are doing in my "Optimus Prime" mod. As long as you get the wires away and above the metal backplate your in business. You can check out my link in thread for the original mod. GL m8
Here is pic of two wires coming from WIFI pogo pins. Raised out and above
the metal backplate. All you would need to do is run wires through a nice handle and you will get amazing wifi or GPS.
willumpie82 said:
I'm sorry, Faradays law says this will not work, for RF, mesh or solid is the same.
Click to expand...
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I've read on this forum that some (or one) devices (not the TFP obviously) have their wifi antenna located behind the speaker grill in order to allow proper wifi reception.
From http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=44929981#post44929981
plaster said:
What lg could have done, was put an aluminum heatsink that had a thin fin that spread to all four sides of the phone that would dissipate the heat from the center. Then again, I haven't ripped my phone apart. It may have that already.
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[r.]GimP said:
I've ripped it apart a few times, no fin, but there is enough clearance to do so, I might give that a shot just because.
Not sure of the potential interference to cell signal though..
Good idea regardless, even aluminum foil at that close proximity with maybe thermal compound or a pad would do more than nothing, in theory.
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(edit - all that tape covers areas i didn't want to short, antenna connections mostly. )
View attachment 2220069
So I actually went for it. This is 8 layers of aluminum foil stacked, by folding on of the precut sheets on top of itself until it almost exactly matched the internal dimensions of the LGOG.
This picture is slightly dated, The red+blue borderd box indicates more material I had removed and is no longer present in the rear cover of the phone. The WiFi antenna is located in the backplate for our phone, I thought it wouldn't be affected by the foil but there were two seperate issues.
1.) The contacts themselves didn't always make contact, effectively leaving no antenna.
2.) wireless signal sucked
Also, directly under that area on the opposide side of our mainboard is the LTE antenna. Again *should* is the key work that in theory it would run with no issues, able to radiate out the front of the device.
1.) LTE signal was dramatically impacted. Disabling LTE and using 4g showed fantastic signal. So if you don't use LTE or have LTE in your area this foil can stay, maybe increase the cutout around the contacts so WIFI antenna reattaches correctly.
Also note the cutout area on the bottom. That is our main antenna block attached to the speaker.
1.) Every part of the antenna areas has to be taped to try and use this area.
2.) Foil by itself with no thermal interface material is very unlikely to be sponging or collecting any heat at this relative distance from the hotspots anyway.
3.) Overall signal sucked, not worth it.
Take note of the two metal shims on the top and right of the battery. There is an almost entirely metal "basket" that houses every bit of our phone on the front side.
1.) This is in place to transfer some of the heat that the foil picks up from the transceiver module (metallic thing that is NOT taped over above the top right corner of the battery)
2.) This yeilds a very nice increase in thermal "density" overall. It is a much increased area over which has to heat to reach thermal equilibrium.
In the end I've been running this for about a week now. Placebo effect over and done, testing here and there and I can report.
It makes a dramatic impact on overall temperature regulation of the phone. It does not completely eliminate the hotspot on the back but it does spread it very effectively.
The phone can still reach "thermal saturation" as it were, and will given enough time. There is a weird tradeoff now involved, and I'd have to go back and test this separate to draw any definite conclusions, thusly;
1. You now have more material that can eventually heat up to the point where the phone throttles, this naturally takes much longer to occur (which is good)
however, in theory, this added material still has to find a way to radiate its heat, which might take LONGER to do so.
However, however: ..You also have a greatly increased the surface area that this material can dissipate heat over, so it could take LESS time.
Needs to be tested, but subjectively I can say it is better overall.
Most dramatic increases I get for my personal use case that made this worth it,
repeated restarts from multiple flashes and validating startup tweaks, voltage settings, governer advanced settings properly all taking and setting, etc. Much cooler overall, verified by constantly checking CPU and Battery temps during and after.
Running the phone on LTE, with bluetooth and GPS on, while actively navigating with maps, while actively streaming audio to my car stereo via bluetooth, while hooked up to car charger.
Does NOT hit the point where the screen is impossibly dim and refuses to charge because of how hot the phone gets doing this.
If you've used your LGOG as navigation while docked to a stand on your dash you know exactly how hot this phone can get. It also cools itself insanely faster after this.
Ultimate tradeoff: I have slightly less signal for LTE overall, and it's very slight. I could continue customizing my cutout, and will eventually, but this is working very well for now. It's almost much cleaner than the picture indicates, as once I finalized what worked I trimmed all the edges and cutouts around the backplate fasteners, etc.
Good luck and have fun if you're feeling adventurous.
Much cooler overall, verified by constantly checking CPU and Battery temps during and after.
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Could you share a few sample temps for comparison?
2.) Foil by itself with no thermal interface material is very unlikely to be sponging or collecting any heat at this relative distance from the hotspots anyway.
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Did you end up using thermal compound, and if so, where?
Ultimate tradeoff: I have slightly less signal for LTE overall, and it's very slight.
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Could you share a decibel amount of what you're used to getting, with regards to LTE signal, and what you are getting after the mod?
It's almost much cleaner than the picture indicates, as once I finalized what worked I trimmed all the edges and cutouts around the backplate fasteners, etc.
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Would you mind sharing an updated picture?
Overall, this is awesome! Great idea and I would definitely love to give this a shot myself.
ousoonerchase said:
Could you share a few sample temps for comparison?
Did you end up using thermal compound, and if so, where?
Could you share a decibel amount of what you're used to getting, with regards to LTE signal, and what you are getting after the mod?
Would you mind sharing an updated picture?
Overall, this is awesome! Great idea and I would definitely love to give this a shot myself.
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Yes to all these things, except thermal compount, not yet anyway. I wouldn't mind updating and trying to do with comparisons, but in my ADHD world right now I'm trying to get ubuntu booting under chroot on my phone to see if I can compile source, for the hell of it.
dont feel like opening my phone up at this exact moment but I will, eventually.
lol, awesome. I'm too poor to take my phone apart, but if it needs a battery replacement before 2015, I'll definitely try this out. If you could machine a solid piece of aluminum, or even better, copper, it would work even better. :good:
plaster said:
lol, awesome. I'm too poor to take my phone apart, but if it needs a battery replacement before 2015, I'll definitely try this out. If you could machine a solid piece of aluminum, or even better, copper, it would work even better. :good:
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I've humored the idea of taking the much cleaned up foil template i made out, tracing it on paper, and getting a copper shim machined to the same size and similar thickness, believe you me
Wish I had the balls to do this
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Definitely gonna do this if i need to swap the battery anytime soon.
I remember you mentioning his on the BeanStalk thread. Didn't think you'd make a post. Well as an update for you, I go my dad to re-solder the battery connector, so it's like new i'm thinking i'll give this a try. I keep LTE off due to battery drain anyway.
You must live with spotty lte service. I get plenty of battery on lte with excellent signal strength. Your drain likely stems from frequently switching between lte and hspa
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,
Tesy
Qq
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So I recently discovered that the Rezound (and other phones) receive signal through the battery door. I did not previously know this. I was wondering if anyone had any information on how this works. The reason I want to know is because I am in a VERY low service area, and if I stand in certain areas or at a certain angle in my house, I can get service enough to make calls and send texts, but just the slightest move can ruin it. I know all about the Network Extenders and Boosters and all the external hardware you can obtain to help this problem, but I was thinking of a more direct way that one might possibly increase their signal.
What I was thinking is that old cell phones have antennas, right? So if the Rezound (and other smartphones) use a similar or at least some kind of antenna system (such as through the door of the phone) then maybe one could use a wire and rig it to attach to the door to increase signal.
I wanted to try poking a hole big enough to fit a small wire through the top of the door, but small enough to not be noticed, and then try and attach the wire to one of the pieces of the door that grabs the signal. I want to be able to remove it if I want to, but I would figure out how to do that part on my own.
I basically just want to know what part of the door is giving my phone its signal. I see that the door has what look like metal plates on it and I am guessing those have something to do with it.
Can someone give me a little more info on how this works so I can try to figure something out for myself?
Thanks a ton!
Btw I realize doing something like this (even if it worked) will increase the signal very insignificantly, but I figure that it might be kind of fun to at least try and see what happens.
TyWillems19 said:
So I recently discovered that the Rezound (and other phones) receive signal through the battery door. I did not previously know this. I was wondering if anyone had any information on how this works. The reason I want to know is because I am in a VERY low service area, and if I stand in certain areas or at a certain angle in my house, I can get service enough to make calls and send texts, but just the slightest move can ruin it. I know all about the Network Extenders and Boosters and all the external hardware you can obtain to help this problem, but I was thinking of a more direct way that one might possibly increase their signal.
What I was thinking is that old cell phones have antennas, right? So if the Rezound (and other smartphones) use a similar or at least some kind of antenna system (such as through the door of the phone) then maybe one could use a wire and rig it to attach to the door to increase signal.
I wanted to try poking a hole big enough to fit a small wire through the top of the door, but small enough to not be noticed, and then try and attach the wire to one of the pieces of the door that grabs the signal. I want to be able to remove it if I want to, but I would figure out how to do that part on my own.
I basically just want to know what part of the door is giving my phone its signal. I see that the door has what look like metal plates on it and I am guessing those have something to do with it.
Can someone give me a little more info on how this works so I can try to figure something out for myself?
Thanks a ton!
Btw I realize doing something like this (even if it worked) will increase the signal very insignificantly, but I figure that it might be kind of fun to at least try and see what happens.
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Antennas are very complicated....a wire really wont help you....if you can pick some up id get paint with a hight metal content of gold or copper...prefferably gold...and go over where the copper paint already is...thats the antenna and a slight elongation of the paints design can cause alot of issues....ive tried aluminum tape and it really didnt do much justice in signal...i tried gold content paint as i had some laying around and had great sucess....although the cost would be just as much as building your own signal booster antenna....which i can dig up the guides for you on that as well
REV3NT3CH said:
Antennas are very complicated....a wire really wont help you....if you can pick some up id get paint with a hight metal content of gold or copper...prefferably gold...and go over where the copper paint already is...thats the antenna and a slight elongation of the paints design can cause alot of issues....ive tried aluminum tape and it really didnt do much justice in signal...i tried gold content paint as i had some laying around and had great sucess....although the cost would be just as much as building your own signal booster antenna....which i can dig up the guides for you on that as well
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Hey thank you for the reply!
I would love the guides to making a booster. That will probably help me out.
Do you think if I got a copper wire, like the copper side of a speaker wire, I could strip it and close the door down onto it with the top sticking out? I mean, like I said before, I don't think the signal would be increased drastically at all, but could this help?
The gold paint you mean, is there an alternative or a cheap method of doing something like that besides what you had mentioned?
Thanks again.
TyWillems19 said:
Hey thank you for the reply!
I would love the guides to making a booster. That will probably help me out.
Do you think if I got a copper wire, like the copper side of a speaker wire, I could strip it and close the door down onto it with the top sticking out? I mean, like I said before, I don't think the signal would be increased drastically at all, but could this help?
The gold paint you mean, is there an alternative or a cheap method of doing something like that besides what you had mentioned?
Thanks again.
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no....they have to match the antenna design thats already there....like i said you can use a better copper paint which is cheaper than gold but gold is much better because of how well it can conduct...sticking a wire in it will proobably give you even worse signal than what you have...the signal booster will still run you a little bit of cash and requires a little bit of knowledge to do so...guides can only go so far sometimes...and unlike old school fliphones or old brick phones with antennas the ones is this phone are designed and programmed a very certain way and is complex...hence why your best bet would be a signal booster...let me google around for the right guide and ill get back to you
REV3NT3CH said:
no....they have to match the antenna design thats already there....like i said you can use a better copper paint which is cheaper than gold but gold is much better because of how well it can conduct...sticking a wire in it will proobably give you even worse signal than what you have...the signal booster will still run you a little bit of cash and requires a little bit of knowledge to do so...guides can only go so far sometimes...and unlike old school fliphones or old brick phones with antennas the ones is this phone are designed and programmed a very certain way and is complex...hence why your best bet would be a signal booster...let me google around for the right guide and ill get back to you
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About how much would the booster cost, and it'd work with other phones in the house too? Service is spotty in our house too for some of the phones.
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jagrave said:
About how much would the booster cost, and it'd work with other phones in the house too? Service is spotty in our house too for some of the phones.
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you can buy one outright for around $150 or make one for about $50 to $75....also depends on if you want one band repeated or up to 3 bands...rezound on verizon only uses 2 though....and yes it will work for any phone that uses that band and or carrier...the cheaper alternative is the paint...which runs about $30 for the gold or $15 to $20 for the copper
Heck, I would really love a signal booster. I usually have one bar of signal, and I can't ever call or text out here
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tmanschuette said:
Heck, I would really love a signal booster. I usually have one bar of signal, and I can't ever call or text out here
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when i lived in the woodland areas of massachussets i had to try whatever i could for better signal...im looking for a good thorough guide on building one but not having much luck....may just write my own as i know how and whats needed
Right? I have to drive to the end of the street to make a call. We live in a valley in the middle of Nm, so the mountains don't help.
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