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I have 2 working titans, i was wondering if it would be possible to de-solder the memory chip off one and solder it into the other one where it has the empty space for ram, would this work? does anyone have a link to the high res photos of the board inside?
nevermind, upon taking apart one of mine and removing the shields i see no blank space for extra ram, i wonder what i was thinking of that i saw had an extra spot, it looks like theres no room under here
I will NEVER understand why a $600.00 retail phone that runs windows would not come with more RAM - it is the ONLY complaint I have with this device!! MAKES NO SENSE!!! How much MORE could it have costed to put a 128MB unit in there???? $10????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARARARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
I think the issue is really just that the phone was late to market. The hardware was well within the standards for WM5 (for which it was apparently designed). By the time the phone actually made it to market, 128MB of memory was now the standard with the introduction of WM6. There are reasons other than cost to not just throw a ton of RAM into a device.
kashabrown said:
I will NEVER understand why a $600.00 retail phone that runs windows would not come with more RAM - it is the ONLY complaint I have with this device!! MAKES NO SENSE!!! How much MORE could it have costed to put a 128MB unit in there???? $10????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARARARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
these companies are not stupid...sure they could release a device tomorrow that had 2gigs of ram, an awesome video card, 800x600 res screen, 64gb built in storage, and still be the size of the xv8600 if not smaller...but that would kille the company and also violate market laws no doubt (like when microsoft released internet explorer for free back when netscape navigator cost $30 a month to use...
come on, these companies are in it for the long haul...if they released a deivce with those stats i just listed (and they could easily...think how small a 8gb transflash card is...you could have 128GB (notmb) of ram easily running on those things, but anyway, if they released that, guess what you, the consumer would want 6 months from now? A device that was twice as good, and had twice as much ram, and speed and space, etc...
Why would these compnies shoot themselves in the foot? They are making money hand over fist selling these devices that use technology available 5-10 years ago...heck, if i were a CEO of LG or HTC or Samsung or whoever, I would be loving this.
It just makes sense, and the average consumer makes a post like that with no thought as to what would happen to the economy or company. Just because it can be done and easily done and you want it, doesnt mean the company is going to say "sure, let's skip 5 years of profits, and just give them what we could sell in 2012, now in 2008" - heck no they arent going to do that obviously.
THE BOTTOM LINE: We, the consumers, have a short memory, are very impatient, and want the next best thing no matter how good the current thing we have is. If they put 256mb in the Titan, your last post would have been...."WHY CANT THEY PUT IN 512MB?!?!?!!?" you see? So, these coampnies are making tons of money by dragging out the release of new technology process...I mean think about it...we have dual core 2.4ghz processors in the year 2001. It is SEVEN years later, and we are still selling dual core 2.4ghz computers for $1,500 and up. Sure, you can get a better deal by building your own but the average consumer doesnt know how to do that, so that lack of technical expertise, combined with slow technology drift, keeps these companies in the high profit margins. I mean by now, if we were all 100% tech-savvy we would be demanding (as a whole) 12-core computers, with 20ghz ciphs each core...it's just not gonna happen when these big conglomerates control the flow of technology.
One company kind of broke free of this, and did work on their own. Look up the RED 4K Camera. current professional cameras for filming are $2,000 and up and film 720x480pixels, well HD cameras ar emore expensive, $4000 and up for pro quality and they are 1920x1080 pixels, well the RED 4K Camera came out over 2 years ago and it can film in 3 to 4 times HD res @ 4000pixels. Of course since they are th eonly ones doing it they can charge $20,000 per camera when in reality the parts to make it cost about $500...but do you know how to make a video camera? do you know how to build a PDA? Do you know how to manufacture 64GB ram chips to put in your PDA? Are you a programmer and cna you make the firmware for your custom device? and the list goes on and on....this is why we PAY $600 for a device that costs them $50 to make. Get it?
::: Connor
crobs808 said:
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
these companies are not stupid...sure they could release a device tomorrow that had 2gigs of ram, an awesome video card, 800x600 res screen, 64gb built in storage, and still be the size of the xv8600 if not smaller...but that would kille the company and also violate market laws no doubt (like when microsoft released internet explorer for free back when netscape navigator cost $30 a month to use...
come on, these companies are in it for the long haul...if they released a deivce with those stats i just listed (and they could easily...think how small a 8gb transflash card is...you could have 128GB (notmb) of ram easily running on those things, but anyway, if they released that, guess what you, the consumer would want 6 months from now? A device that was twice as good, and had twice as much ram, and speed and space, etc...
Why would these compnies shoot themselves in the foot? They are making money hand over fist selling these devices that use technology available 5-10 years ago...heck, if i were a CEO of LG or HTC or Samsung or whoever, I would be loving this.
It just makes sense, and the average consumer makes a post like that with no thought as to what would happen to the economy or company. Just because it can be done and easily done and you want it, doesnt mean the company is going to say "sure, let's skip 5 years of profits, and just give them what we could sell in 2012, now in 2008" - heck no they arent going to do that obviously.
THE BOTTOM LINE: We, the consumers, have a short memory, are very impatient, and want the next best thing no matter how good the current thing we have is. If they put 256mb in the Titan, your last post would have been...."WHY CANT THEY PUT IN 512MB?!?!?!!?" you see? So, these coampnies are making tons of money by dragging out the release of new technology process...I mean think about it...we have dual core 2.4ghz processors in the year 2001. It is SEVEN years later, and we are still selling dual core 2.4ghz computers for $1,500 and up. Sure, you can get a better deal by building your own but the average consumer doesnt know how to do that, so that lack of technical expertise, combined with slow technology drift, keeps these companies in the high profit margins. I mean by now, if we were all 100% tech-savvy we would be demanding (as a whole) 12-core computers, with 20ghz ciphs each core...it's just not gonna happen when these big conglomerates control the flow of technology.
One company kind of broke free of this, and did work on their own. Look up the RED 4K Camera. current professional cameras for filming are $2,000 and up and film 720x480pixels, well HD cameras ar emore expensive, $4000 and up for pro quality and they are 1920x1080 pixels, well the RED 4K Camera came out over 2 years ago and it can film in 3 to 4 times HD res @ 4000pixels. Of course since they are th eonly ones doing it they can charge $20,000 per camera when in reality the parts to make it cost about $500...but do you know how to make a video camera? do you know how to build a PDA? Do you know how to manufacture 64GB ram chips to put in your PDA? Are you a programmer and cna you make the firmware for your custom device? and the list goes on and on....this is why we PAY $600 for a device that costs them $50 to make. Get it?
::: Connor
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I understand your arguments and mostly they are correct. But $30 bucks a month for Netscape Navigator? I can't remember that. I was surfing the net back in '94 on Netscape and I don't remember paying anything for it (apart from dialup charges - and that was even before IE existed) ****, does that show how old I am???
crobs808 said:
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
::: Connor
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They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
maccaberry said:
I understand your arguments and mostly they are correct. But $30 bucks a month for Netscape Navigator? I can't remember that. I was surfing the net back in '94 on Netscape and I don't remember paying anything for it (apart from dialup charges - and that was even before IE existed) ****, does that show how old I am???
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well you cant be that old if you dont remember netscape sueing microsoft for anti-trust lawsuits for releasing free software into a market that undercut their $10-$30 netscape versions depending on which one you bought...(remember, netscape gold and all that lol, back in the early 90s (this is pre 1994) - that's just when yahoo finally came around. i mean i am only 26 and i remember having to use Mosaic web browser...the browser that eventually became Netscape Navigator...LINK #1 - Mosaic and this LINK #2 - Netscape - it talks all about the antitrust lawsuits, etc..
anyway, back on topic...double the ram didnt happen because of one word..."MONEY!" - you can make WAY more money as a company seeing how far and long you can push the customer.
-connor
Tregrad said:
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
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you didnt understand his post, its not about cost or technology, its about marketing
the phone was designed fro WM5, so 64mb ram was more than enough, why should they put 128mb in the phone when in a year they can release a new phone with 128mb and everyone will buy that?
does it suck? sure, but its life, better get used to it
defaultdotxbe said:
you didnt understand his post, its not about cost or technology, its about marketing
the phone was designed fro WM5, so 64mb ram was more than enough, why should they put 128mb in the phone when in a year they can release a new phone with 128mb and everyone will buy that?
does it suck? sure, but its life, better get used to it
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This is the same idea why we don't have cars with fuel injectors that can run 70 miles to the gallon using standard gas. As long as demand is high enough on goods that are out there (i.e. old phones, old cars, and everything else) and people are willing to keep buying them with outmoded technology, there is no reason to sell the next great thing UNTIL someone else threatens to sell the same thing. Is there really any competition for HTC in the US markets? No. LG sux and runs an OS that looks like my mother-in-laws Razr. Samsung is ok, but doesn't have the utility and look of the vogue or titan.
serfboreds said:
This is the same idea why we don't have cars with fuel injectors that can run 70 miles to the gallon using standard gas. As long as demand is high enough on goods that are out there (i.e. old phones, old cars, and everything else) and people are willing to keep buying them with outmoded technology, there is no reason to sell the next great thing UNTIL someone else threatens to sell the same thing. Is there really any competition for HTC in the US markets? No. LG sux and runs an OS that looks like my mother-in-laws Razr. Samsung is ok, but doesn't have the utility and look of the vogue or titan.
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Dude this is so true. They already have several engines that can get 50-100 mpg no problems. But why wold they bother when they can sell us hybrids which cost heaps more and don't get nearly as good mileage.
The latest is a 6 stroke engine that uses a standard four stroke motor and add two extra strokes per cycle using water! as the 'fuel'. The motor doesn't 'make' more power for nothing. This is not some fake 'perpetual motion machine' . The extra efficiency is achieved purely by getting more heat out of the same amount of fuel instead of throwing the heat out the tail pipe.
See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine
Its a bit off topic but its a true example of the same thing. they will only do it when the market forces them to do it. $10 a gallon gasoline might be the push. (Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
maccaberry said:
(Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
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True, but their cars only hold two and you drive around with their knees in their chests, so you better go on a diet, destroy your way of life and get rid of that SUV. I for one am going to be pulled out of my F-350 dead before i give it up.
thats why i make my own diesel fuel NOW if I could just figure out how to make my own phone LOL.
What yall are saying is true tho. we all know that the technology WE see, is the bottom of the barrel of their ideas. no one here would shoot their whole wad at once to appease the clammering consumer. a smart business man would make as much as they can by letting a bit out at a time while developing more and more "stuff" we desire and are willing to give up our hard earned money for.
Its called "capitalism" I know that a dirty word for the "dirt worshiping squirrel hugger" out there but, thats the way it is so get in the boat or tread water for as long as you can.
i dont get ppl with SUVs....i mean i live in Texas and i dont have an SUV or a truck...just a 4door sedan for me and my family. that's all i need, even with some dirt/rock roads when i go out into the country...a truck would actually be more bouncy and annoying to ride in. ive never liked SUVs for any purpose...but soccer moms for some reason think they need the Xterra or their husbands need Hummers to drive one or two kids to and from soccer practice...i dont get it. SUVs are pointless unless you work in construction.
-connor
Tregrad said:
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
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Maybe that was with the help of those $4000 HD digital video cameras
I am with you, I will be buried in my F350 Diesel.
Tregrad said:
True, but their cars only hold two and you drive around with their knees in their chests, so you better go on a diet, destroy your way of life and get rid of that SUV. I for one am going to be pulled out of my F-350 dead before i give it up.
thats why i make my own diesel fuel NOW if I could just figure out how to make my own phone LOL.
What yall are saying is true tho. we all know that the technology WE see, is the bottom of the barrel of their ideas. no one here would shoot their whole wad at once to appease the clammering consumer. a smart business man would make as much as they can by letting a bit out at a time while developing more and more "stuff" we desire and are willing to give up our hard earned money for.
Its called "capitalism" I know that a dirty word for the "dirt worshiping squirrel hugger" out there but, thats the way it is so get in the boat or tread water for as long as you can.
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So what are the chances of the Ram chip from a touch/tilt being soldered into the mogul assuming there is any similarities
they did something similar with the old palms to double the ram can be found here
http://pages.interlog.com/~tcharron/Palm8M/III8M.html
im fairly new to the pocket pc phones but what are the chances of using the extra rom space as a page file?
maccaberry said:
Dude this is so true. They already have several engines that can get 50-100 mpg no problems. But why wold they bother when they can sell us hybrids which cost heaps more and don't get nearly as good mileage.
The latest is a 6 stroke engine that uses a standard four stroke motor and add two extra strokes per cycle using water! as the 'fuel'. The motor doesn't 'make' more power for nothing. This is not some fake 'perpetual motion machine' . The extra efficiency is achieved purely by getting more heat out of the same amount of fuel instead of throwing the heat out the tail pipe.
See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine
Its a bit off topic but its a true example of the same thing. they will only do it when the market forces them to do it. $10 a gallon gasoline might be the push. (Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
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Click to collapse
There is better:
"Although you can definitely pre-order an Aptera if you're okay with space-aged design, Volkswagen is hoping to provide another option for those looking for ridiculous MPG and a little bit of normalcy in construction. Okay, so maybe the 1-Liter isn't exactly standard fare -- with its plastic / magnesium shell and all-glass roof -- but at least it packs four whole wheels and an iconic VW badge, right? According to Motor Authority, the automaker will be producing said vehicle and pushing it to market as early as 2010, and while the minuscule engine will only take you to 75MPH, it will still seat two people -- one in front of the other, though -- and get around 235MPG. No word on a price or any of that good stuff, but we're hearing that they'll only be produced in "limited numbers" whenever they're launched." (from engadget)
As for European cars..europeans don't need to travel as much because the size of the countries in europe are rather small in size comparison to the USA..realistically speaking is over 85mph even really necessary at all?
As for Titan..capitalism is one thing..we aren't asking for 1gb ram even though we would like it...but a decent amount to ensure you don't feel lag would make sense...
I love Europe... but the euro is costing more than the $... not a smart time to go there... YAY U.S. economy!!!!
anyway... I thought this was a WM forum... for a moment I felt I was in a Popular Mechanics forum... my 2 cents
gTen said:
As for Titan..capitalism is one thing..we aren't asking for 1gb ram even though we would like it...but a decent amount to ensure you don't feel lag would make sense...
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remember the titan was designed for WM5, and with WM5 128mb might as well be 1gb, lol
remember the titan was designed for WM5, and with WM5 128mb might as well be 1gb, lol
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The Titan was originally designed for WM5 yes, which is why the decision for 64 MB of ram was made. Then, however, they decided to throw WM6 on it and didn't even bother to give a damn that 64 MB of ram for WM6 is like running Windows XP with 256 MB of ram...it works, but just barely. Instead, as another poster pointed out, they figured that it would work to their advantage as people would enjoy WM6, but be disgruntled (as we all are) with such limited resources. This would lead us to buy yet another phone later on down the line with 128 MB of ram and WM6 (or now WM6.1).
With the source code now released how long do you guys think it will be before one of these mad catz works through it and optimizes it for the HTC Titan?
http://source.android.com/projects
I'm guessing we will see something within a month. I'm hoping sooner than that because I can't wait to try this out, I've been messing around with the SDK for a while and I'm looking forward to what is to come!
What do you guys think? Will we see one by Friday? By Nov? In one month?? By Christmas??
I hope something soon. I too want to see all the G1 goddiness on my Titan. Who knows. it might even have a working hardware acceleration driver!
my bet is by Christmas... I am planning on keeping an eye on the Vogue android thread by dzo He is the one that was able to get the SDK releases of android running via Haret... and to my understanding the Vogue and Titan are similar enough that most progress that they can make on the vogue will be relevant to the Titan...
I am not going to be getting a new phone anytime soon, so the idea that I might be able to have a new OS to play with on my phone is very enticing
I am excited about this whole android thing! I am not a devoleper, but I do like to modify, and tinker.... I would love to play with android when it gets close to ready, but I am wondering... is it / would it be possible to dual boot an OS with such limited resources? (i am afraid I don't realy understand how the ROM / OS thing works...) Or would it be more of a second device kinda thing untill all of the kinks are worked out?
I would say a hell of a lot sooner if we all stopped waiting and got to work.
I was surprised to receive a call while running it for the first time today. Need alignment and button mappings for a start.
The Titan doesn't meet the minimum system requirements for Android. Android requires 256MB flash memory and 128MB RAM. The Titan has 256MB of flash memory (which means you wouldn't be able to add anything to the phone), but it only has 64MB RAM (which means you're out of luck).
Don't get your hopes up, people.
dumpydooby said:
The Titan doesn't meet the minimum system requirements for Android. Android requires 256MB flash memory and 128MB RAM. The Titan has 256MB of flash memory (which means you wouldn't be able to add anything to the phone), but it only has 64MB RAM (which means you're out of luck).
Don't get your hopes up, people.
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my hopes aren't up too high, I don't think we will be dual booting, or completely replacing the WM rom with an android rom really, but I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to get android running via haret like we have been doing for the past 3 months...
but I am curious, do you have a link to the minimum android requirements?
From my understanding Android was developed to be able to run on just about any device. In an interview with Googles Director of Mobile Platforms, Andy Rubin
Q: What were the primary development challenges for Android? Did you design it with high-end or mainstream hardware in mind, and what are the system requirements?
Rubin: When we built the system, we wanted it to be as flexible as possible. We did a lot of work to write our own library, and it's 250 kilobytes, not 3.4 megabytes.
We took a lot of those types of considerations when we were developing the platform. The platform is capable of running, as I said, on kind of mid- to lower-end devices as well.
We feel that one of the platform's distinguishing features is how it handles access to data. I talked about the mashups on the Internet and everything else. So, although the platform can run in a stripped-down fashion on mass-market phones, we think that the initial devices will be mid- to higher-end phones just because of the data access capabilities of the platform.
The minimal requirements are 32 megabytes of RAM, 32 megabytes of flash, and a 200-megahertz online processor. There are companies within the alliance working to bring that to even lower-power phones.
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I am aware that this interview is nearly a year old, so things may have changed, but since I cannot find a recent comment on the minimum requirements I have to assume that they still intend for Android to be able to run on a wide variety of hardware, which would include the Titan
But then again, I could be wrong, I might be missing a very obvious link to the minimum requirements for android.
Thanks in advance for the link
It seems that some people here don't understand that we can already run Android on the Titan. Just go here: http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ , get the latest version, extract it to \Storage Card\, and then run the haret.exe.
Of course, we still need a lot of work to be done to make it fully usable. The touchscreen needs a bit of fine-tuning, in my opinion (though it's debatable). Another big issue is the keyboard. I think that some are working on it right now, though.
In looking at the latest offerings from phones, I am curious what people (who own a titan) would upgrade for?
The Touch Pro is the upgrade for the 6800/Mogul. But, It's not that great of an upgrade at this time because know the Touch Pro 2 is on it's way by end of year.
So would wait for the Touch Pro 2, or would you gamble and see if we have an Touch HD2 with keyboard?
My concern is that the new HTC (and it has to be HTC....XDA forums is what adds value to the phones when carries don't) devices are not leaps and bounds upgrades. No 3d acceleration is a big thing as we round the corner on new device OSes.
The Qualcommm procs at 528mhz seem too slow, so I hope HTC has some mid year suprises for us.
Well with verizon it doesnt matter what phone it is, they somehow screw things up and get things a year after the fact, but, I cant believe Im saying this, if the PalmPre comes to VZW and gets video recording...might look there.
If a Touch HD 2 is coming out, it's a ways off. The Touch Pro 2 was just announced. HTC doesn't announce phones often. The original Touch Pro was announced almost a year ago
im digging the samsung omnia by verizon..
i have sprint now..
but with the family plan and data plans (2) it would be $176 a month.... screw that... im at $85 a month now...
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...t&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=4366
I would totally ditch my phone for an HTC Touch Pro2. That thing looks so sexy and anything has to have more memory than the Titan. If only there was a way to add more to it.
Touch Pro is close but it has mediocre battery life.
The TP2 has an odd sized screen that would lead to compatibility issues.
Right now, Nothing. The Xv6800 does pretty much everything for now. They might get smaller, more memory or maybe a little faster but, it's not a major change.
The current phone, tho is low on the memory scale, does GPS, all WM features, even newest builds of WM 6.5.... I find no need to sign a 2 year contract and not get any really new features in a phone...
When WM 7 devices start showing up (muti-touch, more like iphone feature set), then I will start looking for a new phone...
but, that is just my 2 cents....
David,
I think I am with you on this. The "upgrades" of the Touch Pro and the Touch Pro 2 are not compelling enough to spend 5 bills on, or sign a new contract over.
If only the Titan had more memory, I'd be fine with it. It drives me crazy using Opera or the new IE with all of the low memory issues.
Also there is a good point about the screen size. The current titan is QVGA, and there are many other devices using QVGA. The Diamond/TP are VGA. The new Diamond2/TP2 are WVGA.
So will WVGA be the new "standard" resolution apps are written toward? Will VGA fade quickly because there are not that many phones that have it today, and may not have many with WVGA coming down the route.
If someone could offer a legit upgrade to 128+ megs of memory for the Titan for a reasonable price, I think they could make some serious cash to tide people over.
A Titan with 256MB ram and a new processor. I just realized how much I love the form factor and have come to terms with it's thickness (though I'd prefer thinner), and I am in love with the hardware buttons which make me say that.
But I will likely get a vogue soon because my titan's power button is broken (detached from the main board) and I'm having charging issues. I might replace the xv6800 but verizon has discontinued it and the vogue is free. It's also thinner and I don't know how I'll get over the keyobard and the wifi, but my xv6800 might become my wifi device since I don't need an internet connection constantly, and my 6800 would probably work when I do.
However, I think the touch Pro 2 looks really nice. It has a better keyboard and bigger screen-which I have wanted, but I really would having that ok button. But with the bigger screen it might not matter that much. I want the touch pro 2 to be the iPhone...really.
No one makes the phone I want, no one ever will I think (though the Blackstone and TP2 are close), but I also want iPhone software and a capacitive screen. So if my 6800 didn't have problems I might be lusting a bit over the touch pro and of course the touch pro 2, but the titan should just be given the TP's internals!
I like the 1Ghz Toshiba phone . . . not sure if it will be offered CDMA. I'm locked into VZW with family plan. I'm up for free2 in August, so I'm excited about all the new handsets coming out. I just hope VZW lives up to their promise of open architecture hardware and brings some of the better ones to their customers.
Cycomachead said:
A Titan with 256MB ram and a new processor. !
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That is the one I want.
256mb ? What do we live in the dark ages ? What would you really want on a phone ?
I'd think at least 2-3gb to start with for memory. Files these days are big, and with all the multi-media features they support I would think we should start seeing phones with much larger memory built in, personaly I kind of expect it on my next phone.
I got my 6800 when my 6700 died for the 3rd time (thank god for insurance), so not under a contract here. My 6800 does almost everything most of us need as of now.
Come on WM 7, get here with some cool azz phones !!!!!!
Touch Pro
Touch HD
or
Tungsten W (HD with a keyboard)
DavidinCT: I think you're confusing RAM with just regular storage space. 3GB of RAM in a phone is like 10 years off
EGOvoruhk said:
DavidinCT: I think you're confusing RAM with just regular storage space. 3GB of RAM in a phone is like 10 years off
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I dont have that long to wait.... I WANT IT NOW..
plus it is probably like when the cd rom first came out..
they released the 1x but had the 52x designed and made..
1x then few weeks later 2x then 3x to 4x to 8x, 16x etc..... all in the name of making money....
There is nothing out now that makes me want to upgrade. The TP is great but has even poorer battery life than the Titan. The Omnia is on VZW and would cost me almost 2x what I'm paying now per month. I'm also about fed up with WM in general, the promise that the next version will fix the performance issues and improve and simplify the interface has become old. I like what WM can do, but it requires way too much attention and 3nd party software to do it. I'm interested in what the Pre will bring and what Android will become. I'm a bit disappointed in Androids progress though, it's much slower than I thought. If I stay with WM, I will wait for the TP2 at least. This is of course predicated on the continued life of my Mogul.
I jumped for a sprint touch pro (on verizon) and have to say it was worth paying ~$400 off ebay to have the device. It is faster, more stable and a huge step up from my titan. I had to send it back to get the usb port fixed and it is almost painful to go back to my titan. I love my titan, don't get me wrong, but the Touch Pro was worth the upgrade in my opinion.
Not saying I wont run out and get the TP2 or HD when its available!
There aren't really any phones out now that interest me enough to replace my XV. I love my xv, it's the best phone I've ever used. Sure it has its quirks and needs a soft reset every now and then, but I can live with that.
The TP is a great device no doubt, but I can't get over the lack of hardware buttons. I use my "OK" and "Messaging" and "Start" button all the time. The TP just isn't better enough to warrant changing devices. Also, VZW has a neutered version, which bugs me.
That being said, what would make me upgrade? It will take a WM7 device with significantly better hardware or possibly a new Android device. Sorry G1, T-Mo sucks and I don't like your hardware. And as cheap as RAM and flash memory is, I expect the next generation of devices to have at least 512 of RAM.
Touch Pro 2 .. but I would still keep the Titan to play with
as the new phones has just about everything .. not much fun..
fourpointsix said:
There aren't really any phones out now that interest me enough to replace my XV. I love my xv, it's the best phone I've ever used. Sure it has its quirks and needs a soft reset every now and then, but I can live with that.
The TP is a great device no doubt, but I can't get over the lack of hardware buttons. I use my "OK" and "Messaging" and "Start" button all the time. The TP just isn't better enough to warrant changing devices. Also, VZW has a neutered version, which bugs me.
That being said, what would make me upgrade? It will take a WM7 device with significantly better hardware or possibly a new Android device. Sorry G1, T-Mo sucks and I don't like your hardware. And as cheap as RAM and flash memory is, I expect the next generation of devices to have at least 512 of RAM.
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It is also important to note that more memory (memory = RAM; storage = ROM) means lower battery life. Sure, memory may be cheap, but battery tech hardly ever changes and battery life is a large complaint about current gen devices as is.
Ok, just wanted to put this up here.
I come from the legendary HTC HD2 so I know nothing is impossible from win6.5 to android is huge
Do you guys think a port of win8 will be possible? i mean they said 1gb of RAM is enough to run win8... and 1.5GHz should not be a problem if Atom is 1.6GHz, since we can overclock it and stuff..
so, is it possible, or whats talking against it?
Technically, its "possible". But nobody is going to take the time to port Windows8 to the Flyer. Windows is closed source, making porting it over extremely difficult. Plus, there would be no drivers to make the hardware work with the OS. I'm no developer, but the enormous amount of work to overcome these obstacles make them infeasible, compared to simply buying a Windows 8 device (when they become available).
On the other hand, there are developers who will try just for the fun of it. Will it be usuable to the general public? I doubt it....
Somebody tell Microsoft!
Hey this thing is already running a version of Linux, you see any ports to a full blown linux tablet?
Nice idea thou, the new Windows 8 looks to be finger friendly
yeah i know it will be a pain in the arse, but hey - some people like to do this just for the fun and recognition - you know, be the one who finally managed to hack win8 and port it to a android device.
its been done before, and i think many will be donating to help.
its a fun thing.. imagine dual boot
You could install Ubuntu on the Flyer, but for what , I don't know.
Read lots of issues and complaints about W8. Its a ubuntu mini wannabe. Its a nightmare on a pc and probably going to be classified as a cousin to vista. Windows is a mess structuraly compared to Linux, which is Android.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
There are a few reasons why it will never work, most of them people already mentioned
1. You can't compare a 1.6Ghz Intel x86 processor to a 1.6Ghz ARM one, the Flyer is well below the minimum specs.
2. Microsoft will not publicly release their ARM builds, they will only sell them directly to OEMs unlike the desktop version of Windows 8.
3. It's closed source.
4. If someone does miraculously manage to get it running (hey this is xda), functionality will be extremely limited as there is no legacy app support for ARM.
You could install Ubuntu like DigitalMD said and put Win8 on a VM in there.... doubt it would boot though and you would have to find chuck norris and make him round-house kick the lag.
From ALL of the Tablets on the Market, I have checked out ALL of them. The one that I'm the happiest with is the Sprint HTC EVO View Tablet. It's the LOUDEST of ANY & ALL Tablets on the market. Anywhere from a little bit to a lot louder. I know that it's just a 7" screen, but it has the best sound. I would like to get Windows 8 on the HTC EVO View Tablet. i hope that ANYONE can come up with a solution to this. If anyone can come up with a solution to this, then I would put it on the HTC EVO View Tablet ASAP!
It's not possible. Doesn't meet min specs.
We installed it at work on an HP Slate that was running Win7, and it constantly freaked out about the resolution not being high enough. If a device that was meant to run Windows OS is unable to run Win8, it's not going to happen on an Android device. At least not officially.
And considering we can't get an ICS build running, it's a pretty good bet we'll never get Win8 to run.
kudosmog said:
It's not possible. Doesn't meet min specs.
We installed it at work on an HP Slate that was running Win7, and it constantly freaked out about the resolution not being high enough. If a device that was meant to run Windows OS is unable to run Win8, it's not going to happen on an Android device. At least not officially.
And considering we can't get an ICS build running, it's a pretty good bet we'll never get Win8 to run.
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I have a slate 500. Did you set it to the higher resolution? Win 8 should work, although the screen is a bit off at the higher resolution.
A bit off topic, I know...
Well that was just one aspect of it.
We weren't able to set the resolution any higher then the max 1024x600. It just wouldn't allow anything higher. It *runs* but anytime you click/swipe etc it vomits error messages.
Still, so many challenges keeping it from happening on the view/flyer. It's a pipe dream.
Yeah this ain't gonna happen. Already got a very good , usable OS.
I"d spend my time improving that and creating better apps
Is it possible looking at hardware? Yes, I think so. The architecture should be fine, as there is an ARM version.
However, what do we need?
-Drivers for Windows 8, and if we want to make this work out correctly, we do need the ability to write drivers ourselves, which is a lot of work.
-A custom bootloader. I hope that, after we get ICS to boot on the Flyer correctly, we can work on a bootloader, as it would be really nice for a real tweakers-tablet, so there might be a possibility for this (not giving an ETA, as I don't know how much work it is and it will take a lot of time, don't get excited on this at all...)
And besides, when we can work on a native Linux-distribution, I don't think it's worth it to work on W8, especially because every way we get it running is not legal. Oh, and let's not forget the work it takes to get it to boot, as it would take quite some magic to get a Windows kernel booting.
redpoint73 said:
Technically, its "possible". But nobody is going to take the time to port Windows8 to the Flyer. Windows is closed source, making porting it over extremely difficult. Plus, there would be no drivers to make the hardware work with the OS. I'm no developer, but the enormous amount of work to overcome these obstacles make them infeasible, compared to simply buying a Windows 8 device (when they become available).
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and what do you think about windows phone 7 on the HD2? i believe it was extremely hard, but people made it
Big_O said:
Read lots of issues and complaints about W8. Its a ubuntu mini wannabe. Its a nightmare on a pc and probably going to be classified as a cousin to vista. Windows is a mess structuraly compared to Linux, which is Android.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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f**k you... don't write total bull****s here... it's not a noob forum. i didn't see any other complaints except people's noobiness.. they'll get used to the new controls. they're just awesome.
Naysayers always say nay. I'm amazed at the accomplishments @ XDA thus far and have learned never say never. I for one would love to see this happen.
Some people do things because their told it can't be done.
im using the rtm windows 8 right now i gotta say its pretty good ...early builds had issues but they did good quicker smother would be awesome if they could get windows 8 on my VIEW cuz its def built for mobile ...splashtop for now
Big_O said:
Read lots of issues and complaints about W8. Its a ubuntu mini wannabe. Its a nightmare on a pc and probably going to be classified as a cousin to vista. Windows is a mess structuraly compared to Linux, which is Android.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Technically possilbe, but it's extreemely unlikely to happen. Especially since windows is in no way open source, and the flyer doesn't have that many modders.
Today I have read an article that all currently running WP7 Smartphones will NOT receive an Update to WP8.
Instead they will get an Update to WP 7.8.
I am sooooo happy that we have finally running HSPL for our devices, so our talented devs will hopefully be able to make coustom roms WITH WP8 !!
Lets hope the best
The article is in german, if you understand that language check it out
http://www.chip.de/news/Windows-Phone-8-Das-kann-das-neue-Microsoft-OS_56171609.html
I don't think DFT or others can do something about this :
The main reason WP8 isn't going to current devices is that most of the new kernel will be built for multi core processors ...
I don't think this is something you or me or DFT could change ...
Of course I want to be wrong xD
Btw I am pretty satisfied with the 7.8 solution.
A nice WP7.8 custom ROM would be enough for me if we'll still be able to be part of the system.
The important question is about what features will be included in the 7.8 update other than the GUI change.
Yeah, we're screwed. I'm selling my Titan while I still can, nobody would want one a few months from now.
I will probably buy a freakin' iPhone because it holds its price pretty well and stick with it until WP8 phones become available. That is if I won't become an Apple guy in the mean time...
The question still remains.... Is 7.8 going to be the last update, and how long will it take devs stop making things and switch to native code???
Why develop apps for a old system? I know wp7x apps will run on w8, but w8 will have all new open api.
i heard so many times that there would never be a way to get wp7 on my hd2....... perhaps history will repeat itself
I can deal with the 7.8 solution. I just think its a bit awkward that they would market the hell out of the Lumia 900 (and rightfully so) knowing that a few months later they are going to announce that it is not upgradeable to 8. However, Microsoft had to do what they had to do and seeing the big picture, I think it is going to be even more phenomenal. What concerns me is that I wonder if HTC is going to even bother upgrading the Titan (which I currently own) and Titan II seeing that they really have no enthusiasm for the platform. And what surprises me is that they are on board with the initial fleet of WP8 phones. I think I may switch over to Nokia next time around. You can tell how wonderfully they treat their customers and they continuously get new stuff. We shall see.
Flytetymex said:
What concerns me is that I wonder if HTC is going to even bother upgrading the Titan (which I currently own) and Titan II seeing that they really have no enthusiasm for the platform. ... I think I may switch over to Nokia next time around.
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I think the 7.8 update (if that's what you mean) is coming directly from MS so all current 7.5 handsets will be able to get it.
I'm almost 100% sure my WP8 will be from Nokia. I may even get a Lumia now, just because they look so cool & the apps are top notch. (hopefully prices on ebay will plummet after this announcement) Right now I've got a Titan II.
antaed said:
Yeah, we're screwed. I'm selling my Titan while I still can, nobody would want one a few months from now.
I will probably buy a freakin' iPhone because it holds its price pretty well and stick with it until WP8 phones become available. That is if I won't become an Apple guy in the mean time...
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sutt359 said:
The question still remains.... Is 7.8 going to be the last update, and how long will it take devs stop making things and switch to native code???
Why develop apps for a old system? I know wp7x apps will run on w8, but w8 will have all new open api.
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Guys don't talk like those trolls are WPCentral. We are on XDA-DEVELOPERS.
As an developer I would want to target mass market. When WP8 launches, even if with excellent traction what will be one's target market? 4 million? 5 million? in first 6 months?
WP7.x has 10 million+ strong.
WP7.x apps WILL run on WP8.
So I will be making apps for 15million target audience i.e. make an app for WP7.x and serve and earn more.
Only certain games that need multi-cores might be native coded but then we don't have that hardware, so MSFT hasn't screwed us.
drupad2drupad said:
Guys don't talk like those trolls are WPCentral. We are on XDA-DEVELOPERS.
As an developer I would want to target mass market. When WP8 launches, even if with excellent traction what will be one's target market? 4 million? 5 million? in first 6 months?
WP7.x has 10 million+ strong.
WP7.x apps WILL run on WP8.
So I will be making apps for 15million target audience i.e. make an app for WP7.x and serve and earn more.
Only certain games that need multi-cores might be native coded but then we don't have that hardware, so MSFT hasn't screwed us.
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I agree with what you say and I'm sorry to act like a troll but I'm angry because:
- WP7 lacks some important functionality which I hoped to get with the WP8 upgrade (VOIP integration, location background tasks, universal search, HTML5/CSS3 compatible browser, etc.)
- I wanted to keep my Titan for at least 1 year and now I have to sell it (while it still holds some value)
- if I knew the Titan would not get the update I wouldn't have bought it (I was naive, so my fault here)
antaed said:
I agree with what you say and I'm sorry to act like a troll but I'm angry because:
- WP7 lacks some important functionality which I hoped to get with the WP8 upgrade (VOIP integration, location background tasks, universal search, HTML5/CSS3 compatible browser, etc.)
- I wanted to keep my Titan for at least 1 year and now I have to sell it (while it still holds some value)
- if I knew the Titan would not get the update I wouldn't have bought it (I was naive, so my fault here)
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Since you are on XDA I am presuming you know that the dev community will probably port in custom ROMs with WP7.8 before even officials are rolled out! Yesterday's "dev summit" means nothing to the end user. No end user features are released officially. We've gotta wait for the customer focused annoucements. Surely WP7.8 won't be a start screen only update. It will plug in most of the non-hardware dependant gaps.
And - if MSFT doesnt, XDA will.
drupad2drupad said:
Since you are on XDA I am presuming you know that the dev community will probably port in custom ROMs with WP7.8 before even officials are rolled out! Yesterday's "dev summit" means nothing to the end user. No end user features are released officially. We've gotta wait for the customer focused annoucements. Surely WP7.8 won't be a start screen only update. It will plug in most of the non-hardware dependant gaps.
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I'm aware, of course
drupad2drupad said:
And - if MSFT doesnt, XDA will.
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Yes, but to what extent? Supposing that current devices were used for WP8 testing, there is hope for test build leaks. If not, the kernel/driver related gaps will almost certainly never be filled. Very difficult challenge to overcome and few developers will be interested to do it - especially true for the Titan which is far from being a popular device...
The way I am looking at this scenario is that any device was to be supported for 2 years.
I got my Titan Nov 2011 (launch was Oct 2011?)
So ideally, MSFT should support my titan till April 2013. The so called WP7.8 will add features, may be not high tech, most advanced features, but surely those that will make my Nov 2011 Titan much better than what I purchased. This WP7.8 won't actually hit our phones till Nov-Dec 2012, if that's when WP8 phones are to be in the wild.
Surely that refresh can last my phone for next 6 months. MSFT has repeatedly said they will be giving 2 major updates. Only the Lumia 900 and HTC Titan2 owners will see just one WP7.8, but all of us have seen Mango and now WP7.8
And what says, that we won't have a Tango-like minor update after WP7.8?
The fact that 7.5 is being pushed to 7.8 and not 8.0 shows that its two iterations lower than 8.0 (one being kernel change, second being ?) and THREE iterations better than 7.5. Surely a new start screen isn't worth making it 7.8. It could easily have been 7.6 unless ofcourse MSFT devs like fooling us with numbers (I don't doubt it! )
Also, MSFT will support us with apps for that period too. Devs won't make apps for an OS with zero user base. They will want it to start off with 10 million of us first. At least till June-July 2013, I don't see lots of WP8 exclusive apps that are not hardware dependant. Ofcourse there will be a huge influx of apps come this Christmas that will be exclusive to WP8 to show off its hardware capapbilities.
All in all, it is an excellent thing if you want WP to succeed and want to benefit from the whole "ecosystem" experience unmatched by any other OS! I am loving my phone and won't buy a WP8 till next summer. I am in love with my Titan and the custom ROMs have just started... possibilites are endless. We might be looking at a new HTC HD2
---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------
Here found this:
http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/06/20/new-nokia-apps-zynga-games-to-make-your-lumia-even-better/
Part that is of our interest -
"Elsewhere, you may have read about the new Windows Phone 8. How does this affect your Lumia? Well, you are not being left out. All Lumia smartphones will be getting an update to give you some of the features of Windows Phone 8, including the new Start screen, as well as a pattern of ongoing updates going forward."
When the summit was summarised, it was told that we will get continuing support from OEMs. I am inclined to believe that OEMs will dish out a range of updates for another 12-15 months or so for WP7 to bring it as close as possible to WP8. When WP8.5 is released, WP7 will truely be dead, which is OK.
drupad2drupad said:
Also, MSFT will support us with apps for that period too. Devs won't make apps for an OS with zero user base. They will want it to start off with 10 million of us first. At least till June-July 2013, I don't see lots of WP8 exclusive apps that are not hardware dependant. Ofcourse there will be a huge influx of apps come this Christmas that will be exclusive to WP8 to show off its hardware capapbilities
.
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it's really clear to me with my ics xoom tablet that gingerbread has not been abandoned. there are still few apps in the google play store that only work on ics or honeycomb. i'm pretty sure the same will apply for wp7.5/8 - as has been said before. why limit yourself to the people with one system when most apps will work on both. the only time this will change is if wp8 is a massive runaway success, which i'd be equally happy about
As far as markets go, being able to use native code means an easy port of games and apps to and from Android and iOS. If you could serve 3 markets with your app or just 1, which would you choose? WP8 means the end of apps for WP7 devices.
Microsoft could have chosen to port the kernel to our devices. People are like "well, the kernel needs multicore". Bull****. Windows 8 will run on a Pentium 4. You telling me they can get their desktop OS to run on 6-8 year old hardware but mobile can't run on less than a year old? The kernel doesn't matter any goddamn way. They could choose to port native support to our device. Apple did it with 68k to PPC and PPC to Intel, and with considerably less money and human resources. Embedded NT already runs on WP7 chipsets.
Microsoft is telling too many partners too many different things. First they say they are changing the OS to run on lower spec hardware, now they are saying the higher-end hardware can't run the next OS.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dragon_76 said:
As far as markets go, being able to use native code means an easy port of games and apps to and from Android and iOS. If you could serve 3 markets with your app or just 1, which would you choose? WP8 means the end of apps for WP7 devices.
Microsoft could have chosen to port the kernel to our devices. People are like "well, the kernel needs multicore". Bull****. Windows 8 will run on a Pentium 4. You telling me they can get their desktop OS to run on 6-8 year old hardware but mobile can't run on less than a year old? The kernel doesn't matter any goddamn way. They could choose to port native support to our device. Apple did it with 68k to PPC and PPC to Intel, and with considerably less money and human resources. Embedded NT already runs on WP7 chipsets.
Microsoft is telling too many partners too many different things. First they say they are changing the OS to run on lower spec hardware, now they are saying the higher-end hardware can't run the next OS.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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I don't think it is about hardware at all and MSFT never suggested so either. What they've said is the whole WP8 which can be scaled up and down is a big task and effort. From update point of view, packaging this whole new kernel update via Zune to us also means, that the noob on the other hand (not you and me) needs to know what to do. To wipe devices, to get the new drivers on, the new ROM and radio - not a normal update. I think MSFT could have spent a few months trying and testing things so that current gen phones can get this new kernel with "super update". But frankly, only a few thousand of us out of the suspected 12 million are tech-savvy for such an update. The bricks, the admin to support bricks would be an endless affair.
Also, OEMs. Convincing them to make new drivers to update current hardware would mean they can't sell more phones. OEMs want to sell phones. They want money, they will never choose update v/s new hardware. OEMs would also have to have support channels open for such bricks etc - again not good enough reason to put that effort on negligible number of users of this platform.
Above all, what I think the real, REAL reason is: Hardware. Current hardware although not outdate by any means isn't good enough to "exploit" WP8 kernel that powers a PC. The choice was:
Should we have a PC software run by mediocre hardware or should we launch it with awesome hardware that will exploit the new kernel? From business point of view, new hardware, new software = more attention grabbing.
My 2p
Then by your logic, Microsoft should never release anything but bug fixes. In fact, the opposite is happening. Microsoft is planning on bypassing vendors and carriers starting with Windows 8. As far as hardware goes, no ATT rep is going to push Windows Phone now, and it is already well-known that has been a problem as it is.
In fact, it would behoove vendors if Microsoft supported current generation phones because they could work on streamlining current production instead of spending the money on new designs. Do you think the most valuable company in the world (Apple) doesn't understand this? The 3GS will run iOS 6! Other smartphone platforms are basically saying if you want your hardware supported the life if your contract, you need to buy an iPhone...
Also, just an FYI, windows phones are all the same. They all use 100% identical chipsets and have almost no custom hardware. The only difference they have is in the camera and those are high-level drivers. Microsoft was notoriously strict with their hardware spec. Hardware partners did not write any drivers, the same way PC vendors do not write any drivers. It is all a partnership between MS and chipset manufacturers.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I recieved an e.mail from Microsoft stating my titan will be able to recieve the window 8 update. What's that about?.
fallenmonk said:
I recieved an e.mail from Microsoft stating my titan will be able to recieve the window 8 update. What's that about?.
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According to the site where I got that info, all currently devices which run WP7 wont get the update, so we should wait and see...